'It's not education it's self-flagellation': Douglas Murray on British museums | SpectatorTV
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- čas přidán 1. 12. 2022
- Douglas Murray, the Spectator's associate editor, clashes with former culture minister Lord Vaizey over the state of British museums.
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I love how when they say "21st century audience" they mean "21st century audience of leftists"
Hear hear!
Tiddly posh ,north London ,virtue signalling ,self abusers .
Limited thinking.
Silly childish comment
@@raycorrigan3297been triggered have we
Douglas is an important voice for common sense in this bonkers country.
Perhaps the most important in my opinion. I wish we could put him in power.
Oh no, he's not.
@@jamesprice4647 why not?
It sounds like common sense but its not. I think its more demagoguery masquerading as common sense. Two very different things.
@@jamesprice4647 He's behind you!
Well done Douglas, you had 'em on the ropes and you are absolutely correct.
O
Oh the offence that Dounglass incurred at being disagreed with! ''HAVENT YOU READ ME LAtEST PIECE!" lol
Like a small insecure dog, Douglas is barking at nothing. Perceived sleights and abstract 'wokeness'. Theres no there there Dougy :D
Someone needs to send a demand to the Lord to resign because he is a white patriarchal non-inclusive male. These people are so parochial and dense that they'll only realize what Douglas is saying when it hits home.
Lord Vaizey rightly slammed the "ludicrous" things Douglas said
Listening to Lord Vaisey, we can tell why the Conservative Party is about to get wiped out!
100% correct. Check the Wikipedia page of that fool “Lord” vaizey… turns out he was considered part of the “Notting Hill” set of Tories with Cameron and Osborne. The same Osborne who publicly applauded Sir Roger Scruton losing his job, i seem to remember. Tory in name only. Shameful sell-outs
and they deserve it but Labour?? I wont vote if this is the case
@@oldschoolcockneylover8138 I’m a long time conservative but these are really not conservatives. I’ll either vote Reform or abstain. They have been in power for 12 years and all the mess is on them, no one else to blame.
Douglas is a real star! We need more people like him.
He’s an appalling apologist
I have always been a Tory voter, but lately, and seeing Vaisey sniggering, smirking and unable to produce a coherent reply to eloquent (as usual) Murray, I might be voting for Reform next time
Excellent commentary Douglas Murray.
Lord Vaizey says he "is quite woke on these issues..." No kidding? That comes across consistently.
Unfortunately Lord Vaizey seems typical of today's Conservative Party in the UK, which is not conservative in anything but its name.
Oh ffs. I'd misremembered him as a Labour minister.
Unbelievable that Conservative ministers are literally leftists.
@@jdg9999 me too
They are a bunch of eunuchs.
@@elcidcampeador7400 the Eunuchservative Party? I like it (the name, not the Party).
Loved that laugh out loud moment when Lord Vaisey, son of Baron Vaisey, tried to look all woke and 21st Century by asking Douglas to call him Ed! Total hypocrisy
Douglas Murray is a beast. Whenever he gets agitated, it sharpens his intellect and attack to a razors edge.
Murray is a liar.
Yeah. I just get tongue tied. Wish I had his skill.
@@peterhall3405, where is my laugh emoji?
@@peterhall3405 nobody cares. You're losing.
@@peterhall3405 Does your fascist leftist ilk have ANY arguments apart from ad hominem?
Douglas Murray wiped the floor with Lord Vaizey.
He prefers it if you called him Ed. Doesn't want the public to think he's the product of corrupt nepotism you see.
Not entirely
Lord ‘call me Ed’ Vaisey
My god, people like Vaizey are gonna be the downfall of society. They find absolutely no issues whatsoever with these extreme examples of over-correction,& wonder (like an idiot) what all the fuss is about it. His sarcasm is revolting.. 🤢 🤮
Ed is so thick..... it's frightening
Douglas , straight talker , national treasure and legend .
You , can’t use punctuation , please learn .
Murray is a liar. The Spectator peddles lies.
Left fascists ceaselessly justify their violent hatred of the West in general and the UK in particular by angrily claiming they are under threat of death, and that people are trying to kill them. These fantasies need to come true. Lies from the Left need to be responded to with brutal, overwhelming violence, and with the same excuse - the Left want to kill us.
As always Douglas Murray rocks
“He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.” … it’s rather depressing how often I’m reminded of Orwell quotes
Better to just stay in the present and there would be far fewer problems
Also relevant to quote from Enoch Powell at this point.
how about this one: "I had already made up my mind that imperialism was an evil thing.... I was all for the Burmese and all against their oppressors, the British"
@@alixplaysguitar probably worth including this from the same piece of writing "I did not even know that the British Empire is dying, still less did I know that it is a great deal better than the younger empires that are going to supplant it."
The 1 minute 28 second vid 'George Carlin on Our Similarities' by Ammar Khan. You'll learn more [ and be more entertained ) in just 88 seconds !
Douglas seems to be about the only sane person left in anything approaching the mainstream media these days.
"It's not education, it's self-flagellation." Precisely.
Ed Vaisey is the perfect example of modern weediness - of why we are falling apart as a nation. Douglas Murray is like a walking metaphor for who and how we think we were, maybe actually were -- when we knew who we were.
It's always the same old crooks that are now lecturing us about morality and this and that being ' the right thing to do.' I can't have Sir Tony Blair or Lord Mandelson or Lord son of Baron Vaizey or Billionaire Rishi moralizing the public. Always the same crooks with their perverse reverse psychology.
At 13:16 Douglas makes the point that some of the Benin bronzes were gifts from the Prime Minister of Nigeria.
Ed's reply was an unctuous, disrespectful, and condescending laugh, followed by an admission he doesn't know what he's talking about. Ed's behavior was reprehensible.
He is in Fabian society which is connected to labour .
It's not a case of maintaining the museums 'in aspic' -it's about not altering them to fit the sensibilities of a new breed of people who are utterly intolerant and demand that everything, new and old, fit their particular moral compass.
Or the lack of moral compass.
@@Chris-dt5td Thanks for saving the comment, these people have no understanding of ethics or morality further than the emotional responses they trigger. You will find they have never considered these things properly or even take the time to consider alternatives.
Yes. Where is the learned debate? Students are so flakey they cannot engage in debate re: anything they ‘don’t like’ because they are ‘triggered’. I worry for the future for all of us…….
In a nutshell.
@@wag0NE Speak to the Left in a language they understand. No tolerance. No understanding. No mercy. Let them be the ones seeking conciliation for a change, because the general public kills them in the streets.
Douglas customarily awesome. How Ed Vaizey has been elevated to his position is beyond me.
The honours system has been shown to be corrupt , knighthoods were being offered to political donors (see independent on 01 Jan 2022 “Tories reward their chums as hedge fund boss donates to the party” going rate £1.5 billion see also Prince Charles’s aides offer knighthood to Saudi donor, rumoured to be around £2 billion, both parties offer lordship to their cronies and always have.
It's called Nepotism. Call me Ed 's father is Baron Vaizey so I guess Lord Ed got his peerage through a mixture of hereditary rights and voting ' anything goes' as a enamoured MP. I seriously doubt he paid hard currency for his title. I believe the House of Lords is corrupt and the peerage system rotten to the core. However I seriously doubt Sir Kier Starmer yes Sir Karmer has any intention of getting rid of the House of Lords. It's just a stunt. His whole career has been spent covering for the very same crooks.
He was at school with George Osborne and various Tory peers.
@@fidelisfaber4961 Of course he was. The same snivelling pathetic cowardly hereditary class. Everything handed to them on a silver spoon. Yet we are paying for their silver spoon and we are the ones being made to feel guilty for it. Can't make it up.
Money, influence, friends and the like
If only more people could hear what Douglas has to say. He makes a lot of sense.
Spot on... Absolute legend ..
Yeah he makes a lot of sense in the hysterical version of reality he's created. We need objective minds and voices in this age of bonkers polarity, but I don't think Douglas is one of 'em, interesting though he generally is to listen to.
@@GreenMorningDragonProductions 😂😂
@@GreenMorningDragonProductions Pardon me if I don't endow you with the position of absolute arbiter of what is "hysterical", let alone what is "objective".
No it doesn't .....he visited a museum that he claimed was making itself not exist .....
That smirk at 12.40 by Laizey . Totally evil. Douglas' comment on Eden is spot on.
“I’m quite woke on these issues.” Well done for getting that out of Vaizey, it explains so much.
lol, what a ponce
He also wiped the smile off his face more than once, which was a pleasure to see.
He's so woke that he accepted his hereditary peerage as son of a Baron. So woke. So down.
@@bennym5244 But he's going to make it easier for the aristocracy to gender transition their titles! ( that was a joke, actually literally the only exception to the sex change laws they were crafting was hereditary titles, funny how the aristocracy get a pass)
It’s because ed vaisy is in Fabian society which is connected to labour .
We need Douglas Murray in government along with a few select others who understand how woke ideology is destroying out culture and our country
Thumbs up for Douglas!
I'm glad I saw my favourite museum just a few years ago gloriously unwoke. Very sad times for the PR.
I have a HUUUGE brain crush on Douglas Murray!
The clarity, the knowledge, the level of education, the sharp wit and reasoning power, his love and passion for his and our culture - it's very cathartic and reassuring to listen to him. And whenever he touches any topic related to the woke war on culture it's like a "But the Emperor is naked!" moment.
Me too! Huge brain crush!
Museums are where we confront our past and learn about what it was like and how people saw their world. Not filtering it through our sensibilities and values in the modern world.
Except history is always an interpretion of the past and is necessarily filtered by any view we hold.
How many of the artifacts from foreign cultures themselves are symbols of oppression, of violence?
@@damionkeeling3103 (1) All cultures, yours included, are foriegn. (2) All cultures contain atrifacts of freedom, and of oppression, including yours. UK working class culture is foriegn to many UK people - Murray is one of them.
UK working class culture includes a proud history, bound up civil rights, the unions, the cooperative, universal suffarage, the dignity of labour, and much much more. All stuff Murray and other establishment figures have no time for. Their agenda is to divide, to distract, to disemble.
This article IS that kind of a cultural artifact.
I visited this museum roughly fifteen years ago, it was charming and quirky. The diverse locals were extremely proud of it, what a shame all this pride is now forgotten
Pride is forgotten? If only.
I see what you did there
Perhaps it would have been wiser to re-visit before making this comment? You might find that it still is a 'charming and quirky' place and that Douglas Murray is doing what Douglas Murray does best - creating false wedges between groups of people and engaging in the culture war with hyperbole.
I have just booked mysef and my family some tickets for early January to find out how 'woke' it has become since the last time visited.
@@l000tube So you are basically doing what you are accusing the other poster of: picking a side before confirming the issue.
@@rogbard I fail to see the double standard, im waiting to go in January, partly for a day out with the family and partly to see how the museum has changed. How is that 'picking a side'? I am reserving judgement and i made no judgement of the museum (until after the visit of course).
LIFE LESSON: NEVER EVER ARGUE WITH DOUGLAS MURRAY OVER CANCEL CULTURE! 🤣🤣🤣 Brilliantly said, Douglas! 👏🏽
The past HAPPENED . Good and bad, but it happened, and we can't just erase the distasteful bits because someone might be offended by it. Rediculous really, isn't it?
Nobody other than the neo-cons is doing that.
Britain has a long, complex, unique and fascinating history - it should be studied, understood and marvelled at how the people of these little islands have so often batted well above our weight and on such a global scale. Anyone who says otherwise is, frankly, jealous and/or malevolent 🇬🇧
For real. They shouldn’t apologize for globalization. They changed the world more than anyone else and it turned out raising billions of average people out of poverty. Whatever bad happened is greatly outweighed by the good they did for most people.
Well said.
To use terms like “complex, unique and fascinating” serves only to obfuscate from the reality of the gross immorality of the priggish Aristocratic tyrants who have enslaved hundreds of thousands of people for centuries. The British Empire raped indigenous peoples, massacred many and stole all their riches. To add insult to injury, the British Aristocrats refuse to apologise for any of those atrocities and hoard their plunder with complete contempt for their victims. “Punching above their weight” is quite contrary to the reality of a Western Empire who simply bullied and killed the indigenous peoples of multiple continents worldwide.
@@slipslider9048 ok they’ll apologize after everyone else apologizes for their wrongdoing
Ed educate the audience don’t vilify the ART I love Douglas Murray so well spoken xx
Ed is in Fabian society which is connected to labour.
Sad to see such smug and superficial comments from Lord Vaizey; no wonder our rich cultural heritage is under threat!
it’s finished. Just waiting for the demolish Nelson’s Colleum debate to rear it’s ugly head again.
Come on, the Elgin Marbles ought to have been given back years ago.
Ed is in Fabian society which is connected to labour.
"The Long March Through The Institutions" has hit (heavily) the British Museums! The trend now is transforming museums... into "Political Statements"! It's truly disgusting!...
@@retrorevivalsuperturbo9428 They use the word "Colonialism" as if they could realise what that word really meant! No way! Ignorance & Ingenuity & Ideology go hand-in-hand! This old "mantra" of political domination says it all: "Those who control the Present, can control the Past! Those who control the Past, can control the Future!"...
It's these vacuous people like Lord ' call me Ed ' Vaizey ,who don't have a principled bone or an original thought on them who smugly wave this all through.
@@bennym5244 A Minister for Culture with the very same "modernization ideas" (?) as his boss, David Cameron! Bad luck for Britain, now we see it clearly...
That was obvious back when Cheddar Man was redone as very dark skinned despite the science not backing that up.
Ed is in Fabian society which is connected to labour.
Why the hell do people want to change history to suit their modern perspectives!
They are on a mad rampage to level up other cultures. Cultures without such a fascinating and well recorded history. They do this by manipulating and hiding history and even inventing history. It's vandalism.
Power
And lies.
The truth don't require correction, look at art and litterature for what they are.
Acual history
Murray won that little argy-bargy!
They are rewriting our history. Holy shit. Thats WW2 Germany or Soviet Union level stuff.
I know nothing about the history of 1920's Cookham but if there were no black people (or people of color) then do not put them on a painting or other depiction as it misrepresents -- and that is exactly what is wrong with the world now. Conversely, if one were doing a painting of the Congo in 1920, we should hope people depicted were all black= an accurate representation. Why do so many have this colossal desire to appease the emotions of Black people? or the supposedly oppressed... as if it is THE most important thing on the planet right now?
He’s in Fabian society which is connected to labour.
@@Susan-kd3rvThat's possibly the greatest over simplification ever. Could you elaborate please?
I've never been much for heroes and hero worship, but when pressed, I always cite Douglas Murray as mine.
Yes well done, Douglas. Thorough as always.
Douglas Murray is on point again and Vaizey's understanding shallow.
As a passionate admirer of the Benin bronzes , bearing in mind their acquisition, they should NOT be returned to Nigeria. Nigeria at present doesn't care for them and would probably allow them to be sold off or destroyed .
I would soon ignore the Isotope Tests that show that the Bronze is originally from England since I know that it comes from Wakanda
Not long finished listening to Douglas' "War on the West", and I have to say, this segment was hilariously brutal! 😂
I actually feel a little sorry for Lord Vaizey. It was akin to seeing a local croquet player dive into a world heavyweight boxing match, because... they're both sports?
Great book.
Douglas is someone that I have complete respect for,and I hope one day I will have the pleasure to meet him!
His politics and POV’s make sense…. If you haven’t already then please read his books, you will not be disappointed!
I live in Oxford, and the museum has been so much to me and my family, and learning about different cultures and historical artefacts….. god I learnt so much as a child, both good and bad.
Please don’t erase our history, it’s what makes us learn about how we can learn and change.
By removing everything that is deemed to be offensive, we are closing down the conversations that need to be made and creating more division within our society.
PS I’m from a single parent widows home , growing up in a council house.
Not sure I’d want to actually meet him. The thought that I might inadvertently provoke his displeasure and have him gnash at me like that would scare the hell out of me!
@@hoop8621 😄
Yes I would love to meet him he is a national hero.
What makes you think Murray is sensible. I see him as a right-wing liar.
@@peterhall3405 well that reveals your biases for all to see then.
Douglas's face at 18:32 😆- Legend. Lord Vaizey - Embarrassing.
Ed Vaizey cannot compete with Douglas’s knowledge and intelligence.
Douglas Murray wins this hands down.
Love Douglas correct as usual. Always comes back with concise facts or examples .brillant Douglas
Douglas Murray is always right, so why bother arguing with him?
Lol
I don’t know if “always” but definitely most of the time.
I admire this guy having the guts to go up against him!!
I despair.
Because otherwise he'll go soft. He needs to work out.
Douglas as usual is articulate and well versed on the subject given, he never disappoints.
The facial expression on Douglas while the other chap talks is priceless. It's like he's gearing up for a broadside.
What surprises me, is that colonialism is always referred to as a negative. It is the reason civilisation and its advances have benefited most of the world. Without colonialism the world would still be living in caves and pooing behind bushes. Every empire in history colonised some place or other. It is a factor in the progression of mankind. It has some unpalatable facets but that is human nature. I remind you of the Monty Python film Life of Brian "What did the Romans do for us?"
It’s due to indoctrination. It really puzzled me when people act like colonialism is 100% bad or even 55% bad. It is just idiotic to think or say that
In America they have a similar issue with blacks.
u do know that british colonialism caused major famines across India which killed millions ?
@@darkcloud9053 no, it didn’t - India had periodic famines at regular intervals through all of history. India is actually a great example of a country that was hugely benefited by colonialism. From its education system to its rail network, the foundations of all its strengths today were laid during the period of the Empire.
where I live in inner London, our diversity friends are peeing in the bushes & up the walls & bus stops.
I lost my volunteer position at Birmingham Museums Trust for A) disagreeing that Brexit is "like nazi germany" and B) for questioning lockdowns, masks and forced injections. Yep, a colleague "no longer felt safe", and that was the end of my time there.
I hope you have taken your services as a volunteer elsewhere where you are valued as much as you should be. The heritage industry is facing a desperate shortage of volunteers because of its insistence that those who give freely of their time and skills accede to their lies.
Bewildered Brit. Don't worry about the woke feeling unsafe. Reading your post. You make me feel safe.
It’s because ed is in Fabian society which is connected to labour.
The quite woke Lord took quite a beating. Well done, Douglas.
Excellent truthful words Douglas. We must have this point of view heard more before our culture is destroyed for evermore.
Douglas brilliant as always
Douglas Murrey will be a HERO 8n 5he History books. Thanks so much ❤
I'm not a conservative but I have a lot of respect for Douglas Murray and he is absolutely dead right on this. We desperately need someone of Douglas' integrity and charisma to lead the UK forwards
"Lord" Valszey should leave thinking to people that are good at it.
Douglas is the Man!
I’m in total agreement with Douglas 👏🏽👏🏽
Gosh, Douglas is ruthless. That other guy walked right into a buzzsaw.
Go Douglas!
Vaizey is the perfect advertisement for why I will never vote Tory ever again.
I disagree with Lord Vaizey in that part of the fun and the love of history IS to see exactly what our ancestors saw.
This conversation should be preserved.
Strong views from Douglas, he obviously knows what he is talking about ! Well done!
DM has the qualities of a leader. His fellow guest ...."offensive/explainers...? "
It's showing your soft underbelly to dismiss Douglas Murray as Lord Vaizey does here. Murray never states anything unless thoroughly supported with evidence.
Vaizey resorts to talking over Murray and interrupting him, which show he's ignorant of the subject at hand. I'd like to see a rematch, provided Vaizey has educated himself in the interim.
Thank you Douglas. Heartbreaking to hear all of this. Thank you for speaking out. What can be done?
Ed: "PLEASE call me Ed" [Please be my friend and go easy on me?]
Murray: "...Lord Vaizey..." [No, I'm going to let everyone know what a preposterous little ball of obsequious self righteousness you are]
🤣
He had no clue as to why Douglas kept calling him Lord Vaizey, which made it even funnier.
It’s because he’s in Fabian society which is connected to labour.
Very strange. Surely museums exist to tell us about the cultures that produced the artefacts they display. I've never noticed any reticence when it comes to the talking about slavery in the Roman Empire, yet when Lord Valzey is asked about Benin, he goes all coy. He just gave us a load of evasion and straw men.
Douglas Murray really is a national treasure and we should all be responsible curators of him.
Bravo Douglas Murray.
I go to a museum to look at the past, not at the present!
☘️ It never ceases to amaze me how many people decide to face off in opposition with Douglas Murray on ANY subject, never mind a subject which Murray is so passionate about. 🙄
Why is Douglas Murray debating a bucket of water?
The Conservative Guy is certainly signalling the death knell of the party i've voted for all my life
People need to start listening to Mr Murray, at least on this issue.
The current manic tendency in the heritage sector to try to "de-colonise" makes me think of a group of vegans, tearing in anguish at their own flesh because they've realised that they're actually *made* of meat themselves.
🤣 That's amazing, I can't wait to say that to an enraged vegan.
Veganism: the point is to reduce suffering as far as is possible.
Your comment just makes you seem a bit bigoted and is quite silly, superficial and rude.
One can’t erase history. Why would UK want to decolonize??? The past happened. Learn from it. And bear in mind not all was evil. The Romans conquered Britain and they bought good and bad. Just an example. It’s a fact of life. Nations conquering others has existed since time began and it’s still happening.
Brilliant! We know who talks commonsense in this discussion....
Lord Vaisey is so woke it hurts to listen to him 😒😒
Vaizey comes across as rather dim
DM for PM
Absolutely.
Nothing's changed re Ed Vaisey, he's still not a big thinker.
Love Douglas top man 💯
. . . and the win goes SQUARELY to Douglas Murray! Vaizey goes down in FLAMES.
Did they have to CLOSE the Whistler restaurant? The best Sunday lunch ever!
How wonderful to hear Douglas, I am always on his side.
Very good interview & interesting debate. It seems to me that everyone visiting museums etc. should first be taught about Presentism. Art or artifacts should be judged by the times in which they were created & not by today's western ideals. They can then be used as a way to educate people further about history.
Equally, how are curators to know what later generations will find offensive or indeed, revelatory? Our understanding of history is ever-evolving & expanding but that will come to an end if things continue in the way they have been recently. In this modern, fast paced world it's even more important we preserve our history & find ways to make it relatable because there are signs worldwide of us repeating mistakes of the past through ignorance.
Art is also one of the most intriguing forms of communication through time & I don't believe we can ever learn all we can from it.
I'm wary of believing all quotes I read that are attributed to Orwell. I once read this extract that was attributed in brackets, to George Orwell, 1984. But I googled him and it said that by 1984 Orwell had already died.
@@GreenMorningDragonProductions Not read the book but know the quote...very apt!
@@GreenMorningDragonProductions LOL
Entering the museum already “offended” for what one is going to see, leaves little room for education and improvement.
@@elcidcampeador7400 I wonder about that point because a shock factor can be a very effective method of engaging people's attention. It's used in pop culture all the time so why can't someone's offence be used to get them thinking in a different way? Maybe I'm just naive though & people don't want to analyse their first impressions these days? I hope not...I hope curators will use a bit of creative thinking instead of cancelling their own collections.
Douglas Murray. Smoother than a velvet penguin.
LOL
"PLEASE call me Ed!" 😂😂😂 Too funny! He obviously doesn't want the woke ones to realize he's a Lord in case they cancel him!
Douglas Murray is the best
Great to see a serious debate like this with two people really going at it. Whatever side you're on that is refreshing.
Valzey, "I don't know enough about it to comment."
Murray, "No, you haven't thought about it enough".
Pretty much sums up a lot of what is going on.
Ignorance is Strength.
Douglas Murray, brilliant as always, and comes ready to play!
A simple word . Brilliant Douglas
A brilliant discussion. Thanks!
Vasey was just chopped into mincemeat. Well done Douglas
A great conversation, I enjoyed hearing both perspectives. It appears that a deep-seated fear of being “cancelled” is at the heart of today’s “woke” revisionism. I hope that gets corrected sooner rather than later
Well said Douglas
A tragedy has been unfolding at Dulwich Picture Gallery these past three or four years. A place of peace and contemplation - a stunning collection of Old Masters within Sir John Soane’s iconic building - it was a welcome reminder of what a public art gallery can and should be. Charming small exhibitions, skilfully curated - a joy to visit. Not any more - the woke and the virtue signaller are the target audience these days; Rembrandt’s ‘Girl at a Window’ turned into a vehicle for ultra-feminist propaganda. Why this has to be, when it was so superb as it was, is a mystery - and a sad one.
As ever with individuals and collevtives, curators and museum trustees have to think for themselves and do the serious research rather than 'contract' it out to whichever group is currently shouting the loudest. They have to take into account the interests of the past, the present and the future, and not just the current.
Host did a masterful job asking clear and concise questions as well as intervening and guiding commentators when there was some cross talk.
In that regard, top girl.
Vaizey is typical of our modern-day weak, spineless, ignorant politicians. Not in the least prepared to defend this country's culture and history.
I agree with both speakers. As someone living away from London I havent, since student days, visited the place often and have never been to Oxford but Douglass Murrays description of the Rex Whistler mural leaves me wanting to see it. How could the Tate trustees not understand the point the artist was trying to make? Was it too subtle for them?
I agree with Ed Vasey that looted artworks and artefacts and especially bodies and body parts should normally be returned. Just as the artworks looted from European Jews by the Nazis have been returned.
I really think that the insult of returning a gift like the Benin Bronzes given to Archbishop Runcie by the then Nigerian prime minister is just plain rude but looted bronzes should be returned. English Christians would be up in arms if someone stole say a medieval statue from a church and shipped it over to museum in Nigeria.
And we should stop listening to every Tom Dick and Harriet who complains. Not all of them are actually in the right. Misinformation abounds.