Anatomy of a Fall and the Medusa Myth
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
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Im glad it was all fiction, and IRL we would never make a show of a trial of a toxic relationship and make tiktoks and reactions all over the internet
Oh, no. That would never happen. Never ever
Sponsored by Kelloggs lol
It bothers me a lot that such a thing was open to the media. Public trials are meant to protect citizens from the government, make it difficult for judiciary to unfairly prosecute or abuse power. There was absolutely zero public good in making an open show out of private relationship. Disgusting spectacle for the heckling mob.
Alice is friends with colleen Ballinger btw
@@shoyuramenoff Alice is friends with colleen Ballinger btw
the amber heard situation was frustrating because everyone was so intensely dogpiling her that it was really hard to figure out what to believe so i just checked out entirely, but i did firmly hold the belief that if she was in the wrong, it was still unfair the way this was being treated as a microcosm of all of gender dynamics. as if amber heard lying would erase all of the domestic abuse women face that goes unpunished. for so many of these men it takes exactly 1 liar to discredit all female victims forever, which is just ridiculous.
IKR?!
has anyone noticed the rise in defamation lawsuits against female victims by their abusers, shocking
Oh, I felt the same way. Additionally, the notion that AH acted during the trial because she is an actress but JD was totally honest (he's also an actor) is absolutely ridiculous to me.
The problem isn't discrediting, the problem is the damage a false accusation can do to an innocent victim (I know the heard depp situation isn't like that I'm talking about the me too movement as a whole and the mentality that it instilled on people ), y'all talk all this talk but still end up believing the claimed victim no matter the evidence, and as someone who has lost a friend to a false accusation that is a mentality we have to kill as a society, because if you're wrong, it could be over
She became a scapegoat for many right wing pundits both for views and for pushing their agenda. She was kinda toxic, but not as bad as they portrayed her
Anatomy of a fall was such good film on the flaws in justice system coupled with media sensationalization, & the complexity of being in relationships/married.
The case hinges on analyzing the tone of a previous argument. Followed by defending oneself in a language that’s foreign. Adhering to a given basis.
Justice system gets exposed when imperfect victim & truthfully it was never met to provide perfect complete justice. Insightful well video.
One of the biggest themes I saw in Anatomy of a Fall was ‘sacrifice’, ie the sacrifices married women, and that caregivers for those with disabilities, are expected to make to keep a household running. Sandra and Samuel’s relationship ran on the things they didn’t like talking about: namely reciprocity. Reciprocity in Samuel’s opinion was Sandra speaking his language, in his hometown, taking on caretaking responsibility of Daniel, and quitting writing until Samuel had a chance to be successful too. His idea of an artistic relationship was one where both parties had to be mutually successful. As an artist I’ve seen so many relationships where the female artist will fade into the background as her male partner bursts to fame. I once had a conversation with an aspiring director whose dream was of having a wife that would travel with him, look after the children on set, and make documentaries about his movies. As for caregivers, it is an unsung and emotionally traumatizing job. Sandra in Anatomy refusing to sacrifice under a false sense of reciprocity: she concedes to speak English, she concedes to live in London and then Samuel’s hometown when he is struggling, concedes to Daniel’s blindness but not to seeing him as disabled, and she concedes to not having sex for a limited amount of time. Past that, she sacrifices nothing of herself to care for her family or the marriage, and for this a lot of viewers will find her selfish, tactical, and thus party to Samuel’s death.
Oh, I love your interpretation. It makes so much sense to me
I watched the film in the cinema. Because I'm German and in Germany movies are almost always shown in the dubbed version here, I was honestly quite unsure when which person spoke what language. Everything was just in German, and the only time language came up was when in the court the translation for their fight was shown or when an interpreter was shown.
So watching it in the original language would maybe add to the experience.
@@Tessa_Gr wow, I never thought of how the German dub might solve the movie’s multilingualism. Watching in the original version with subs would definitely be better, I think.
Seriously, I was deeply disturbed when Sandra said that expecting reciprocity in a couple is naive and depressing ? Then how does a relationship work ? Is it not hyper individualistic and selfish of a person not to reciprocate. Care giving is fraught with a sense of uselessness, not valued in any society . Does the movie sanction or endorse individuality and selfishness in a marriage, in almost all marriages Sandra will be a man / husband in reality. Some body please explain that it's about relationship not about women and her choices and ambition
@@eastwoodnu Relationships need reciprocal interest and compromise, but not always meas that everyone will do 50/50, sometimes a partner needs to do more and vice versa, the problem was that both refused to look for a middle point, Samuel wanted her to sacrifice her career, and Sandra wanted him to stop "sacrificing" himself for their son. It was a difference in values
I've been reflecting on this a lot lately. Marriage and family are seen as kind of the end of the line. You're supposed to "marry your best friend" and parents be the be-all, end all of all of education and values for children. Thought-provoking video as always, Alice--and I second the support of Latin classes. I took them too! 🙂
Which is kinda funny cuz in the past it was the beginning of your life.
When you married you finally were free of your parents.
@@egggge4752 True. I guess what I mean by that is like once you're married that family you build is supposed to be all you need forever. Like you're not supposed to need outside friends or interests. Your greatest fulfillment is supposed to be that marriage and/or parenthood.
My wife and I went through a lot of discussions and réflexions to find out a way to distribute domestic tasks in such a way that neither of us are trading our liberty, our joy, for pure practicality. It took years, but our daily family life has so much improved. The way se see it : it's all about compromising, caring and communicating.
It really is worth it. And it offers our kids better models (my dad did zero housework and it was a constant theme for their daily dispute).
I saw a lot of analysis about the film and one thing that surprises me is very few people notice how Samuel is actually weaponising his mental illness as a form of manipulation. True that Sandra has her toxicity and it might be subconscious, but this happens so often in relationships and is constantly being overlooked, because sometimes we are forced to symphasize with the mentally ill person.
I immediately noticed and was disturbed by the fact that Sandra never seems to like living in the chalet. Yes they were struggling in London finacially, but there were other suburbs/villages that have affordable housing and education that everyone in the family would like to move. The fact that they picked Samuel's hometown, where Sandra doesn't speak the language well and her loneliness is definitely forseeable, shows it's a manipulation Samuel used on the family (even Daniel too), because he used his victimhood as a weapon. And it would be difficult for anyone, with healthy behavior or not, to not resent him. That's when I see the "fall" of the relationship actually happened, and Samuel is responsible for it.
But of course, everyone was in a rush to defend Samuel and judge Sandra. But me as someone who has family members with mental illness, I can tell you that they can be really toxic and damaging to those around them too, and they need to be held responsible for it in some way.
I agree with you. I'm in my mid 20's now and i've had mental issues. looking back on it, I made it difficult for the people close to me because I constantly wished for "their help" in overcoming my depression. Alhough i never admitted it to them, my actions expressed my feelings of hatred. I often sulked and acted repulsively and it hurt both the parties.
My relationships are not the same anymore and I feel disgusted by my behaviour.
except samuel died and it legitimately could have been an accidental shove by sandra that led to his death. both of them were mean to each other. sandra was constantly looking for opportunities to cheat on him, even trying with the girl who was interviewing her at the beginning although the girl wasn't interested in her romantically.
don't downplay the death just to say that samuel was also mean to her.
...read the text again, I think you didnt get the demo cause your response is out of pocket...@@maggyfrog
Yah, I don’t get this comment. Isn’t this the argument used by shitty dudes to abuse their spouses all the time? Indeed Alice calls out that Sandra is the man in the relationship. Using Samuels mental health as a reason to justify abuse is tone deaf.
@@kasiviswanathboddeti9085 Awareness is an important first step and I am glad you are on your journey to heal and hope you get better :)
Weird aside. It is crazy how this reflects my own relationship and life trying to live off grid in the mountains. I was in a relationship for 11 years, that while not perfect, became increasingly toxic the last three years we decided to live in an off grid cabin in the woods in a small mountain town. It has raised so many questions about gender roles and the adaptability of men and women to the reversal of them. Now, I didn’t end up killing my husband, but we did get divorced and our friendship was brutally ended. I will be so interested to watch this movie!
It's interesting to see the theme of isolation through the chalet figure. For me, Sandra is isolated not just in the montains but in every single environment: she is alone in her value system (an independent woman who grew up in a completely different society), language (she doesn't mention any german word throughout the film despite being german), sexuality, while dealing alone in a legal system that doesn't allow her to speak her native language. She is someone who is incapable of any enunciation throughout the film.
Interesting analysis as always, thank you.
As a student in law I LOVE your videos because it really makes me realize how sociology, philosophy and other types of studies are essential to our world. Not only people evolve but I do hope it will change laws as well ! Wonderful job Alice as always
I dont actively follow your channel, but everytime your videos show up in my feed I find myself clicking and listening attentively for the entire duration, even though I usually dont tend to do that and, as a man, dont necessarily have a personal connection to some topics you cover, but you always manage to engage me and expose me to interesting new topics and perspectives.
So thank you Alice, for making these videos and keeping my mind open and curious!
In my opinion there's another way to see the sexuality aspect of all three women. They were very desirable by men. Medusa was one of the most beautiful women and so is Amber Heard. She also had a very successful carrier. Sandra's case is a bit different, even though she's not the most beautiful woman ever, she's the laid back, cool, funny, smart, confident and successful woman who will not "bother" men with her "women stuff". that's what men want these days. And when things do not go as men want or sociaty wants they are openly seen as villians because of all the things that made them desirable in the first place.
Medusa was a gorgon from birth, she wasn’t changed into one by Athena. That is a bit of Roman fan fiction.
🙂I think Sandra (also the actress) was very beautiful... Well, I found her appereance very Androgynous.... A very beautiful alien... Reminded me the Beauty of late David Bowie 💜
what the hell is woman stuff? and how the hell does it oppose being funny, smart, confident and successful?
Wow! I'm glad someone talked about how Amber Heart was done dirty because she's not a perfect victim (far from perfect but still). She got dog piled by women quite a bit. Pickme tendencies in many women are alive and well
Edit: People forget that it was not Amber who was suing Johny fo DV. It was Johny who was suing Amber for defamation after he already lost a similar case in UK. People don't want to think for themselves.
She was an abuser. The fact that many men and women still support and defend her actions is scary.
@@venkyratnam here y’all go 🙄
As a guy a got duped HARD by the popular discourse and trial footage. Seeing footage from a podcast where Camille spoke about someone going into the women’s restroom to visit Heard wearing the cologne Depp commonly wore was the final straw of seeing through things. I guess some guys who feel (rightfully or wrongfully so) that they have been wronged by women were so desperate for mainstream validation that they couldn’t see the truth.
Alice is friends with colleen Ballinger btw
@@gdew5168I'm confused by what you were trying to say
"domesticity is inherently toxic" definitely gonna reflect on that later, as always thx alice
One line you said about "reverse gender roles" and how Samuel is the one doing the more traditionally "feminine" tasks opened my eyes on a completely different interpretation of the story of the movie. Yes! Sandra is the more masculine, she is more successful, more career focused, has had relationships outside of their marriage and holds more power over Samuel, this made me think that the movie tries to tell us if the roles were reversed, then men would prefer to literally suic*de than to tolerate that kind of life!
What are you talking about? Men already kill themselves at much higher rates than women. No gender reversal required. This obsessively reciprocal pathology is totally unnecessary and pointless. Why is it "reversing gender roles" for a father to take custody of his biological child?
Are the _roles_ reversed though, or is merely the cast reversed? I'd say it's just a woman portraying a quintessential husband and a man portraying his wife. The dramaturgical function of this could simply be that if a man was playing the man, everybody would just assume that he's guilty. The ambiguity would be lost.
Alice is friends with colleen Ballinger btw
But, wouldn’t we assume guilt on the part of the man? If Sandra was a man and Samuel a woman, would we be calling Sandra an “imperfect victim?”
@Jo_876 Women are the eternal victims in every situation according feminists, lol.
Definitely agree that we tend to misjudge situations by setting the standard of for the perfect victim early on. In the case of medusa, as Alice explained, the case seems clear cut. In a way, Medusa was the perfect victim as she did nothing wrong, however, in the case of the Amber Herd trial or Anatomy of a fall, from what I know the abuse was mutual. I guess what I struggle with the most is how do we separate the abused from the abuser in a case where both parties have harmed one another. Not that it is any of our business to judge but when things go to trial they have to be judge. It seems that no matter what we decide in either case the abuse of one party will be discounted in favor of the other.
Ever since that post you've made on instagram with the manuscript of the ideas for the script of this video about Anatomy Of a Fall
I've been so excited for watch this!
I watched the movie and there were so many ideas and so many things going through my head! I really liked the perspective you brought, Alice!
This video made me so excited with every sentence, because it connected so many dots I was recently reading/thinking about. I loved this movie, especially this line of the reporter who said that it doesn't matter if Sandra actually did it, but the concept, the idea of this famous writer is already so attractive, that the truth is unimportant.
One thing I didn't see many people noting about Heard was how Depp played his role. In a great many cases of abuse, the abuser goes out of the way to be popular in the community. This means that when the victim comes forward, they're not accusing their husband, they're accusing a pillar of the community. So so many were so quickly to jump onto the Depp bandwagon not because of any fact that exonerated him, but because of their parasocial relationship with him.
This is reflected with your comment about Posiedon. Position could not be punished be of who he is, so Athena had to change Medusa instead.
I see it all the time when a victim makes an allegation, and the prevailing response is, "He could never do that. He's such a good man."
Just another form of isolation.
That’s a terrible analysis based on a really flimsy argument. You already have viewed the trial with the bias that Depp fits the stereotype of an abuser 1) a man 2) rich 3) a celebrity 4) older 5) has a substance use problem. You are just creating a false premise and using circular logic to justify your biased conclusion.
The media and public perception should have zero bearing on whether someone is guilty or not. Look at the evidence. There clearly was not enough evidence to support Heard’s claims and her claims were contradicted by every witness who took the stand. People honestly believe all those people would risk going to prison for falsifying information during a trial just to clear Depp’s name? That all those people colluded and came up with a similar story? Have you attempted to organize a group of at least 10 people to work in a concerted fashion?
There’s nothing feminist about inverting patriarchal power dynamics, that’ll only reproduce a similar imbalance of power which will see more men radicalized against women - the opposite of what any feminist would want to do.
I may have my mythology mixed up but I think Athena just punished Medusa? I understand the viewpoint you and Alice are putting forward but, as far as I'm aware, Athena wasn't really particularly merciful to Medusa at all? I actually thought that the point of this video would be how Medusa was wronged by Athena and became a monster in response, so I'm just a bit lost in the conversation
Totally agree. Depp did the DARVO perfectly. And, yes, he is very charming and has the biggest fan base. He also used to go to kids hospitals to support them. He is a perfect communal narc (aka the pillar of the community)
@@nhvkuy4675 Quit overusing narcissism. If you knew anything about diagnosing PD’s, the person needs to become sober before NPD can be diagnosed. Even besides that point, he doesn’t deflect every single accusation of blame and fabricate elaborate lies just to hurt someone else - that’s Amber Heard. They’re both guilty in my book, but it’s pretty evident that Heard is someone with PTSD, borderline PD, a poly-substance abuse problem, and would likely score on the higher end if we were to clinically evaluate her.
Yes, some victims will fight back, and the abuser will then try to make themselves look like the victim, but in nearly every video in court (which is *hard evidence* and therefore we should recognize it *holds more weight*) it is Heard setting up cameras, Heard initiating contact, Heard yelling/screaming/hitting Johnny, Johnny is passively trying to protect himself, his reactions are slow and delayed (likely intoxication), Johnny starts yelling back and throws an inanimate object item by her (not at her), she screams and then hits him or uses an object to hit/expose him with.
Idk what you were watching, but no amount of media sway changes the fact that Heard lost she could not produce enough convincing evidence to prove so. She gave way more hurt on herself than Johnny ever could.
I think some people just like to be contrarians
Johnny Depp had become a pariah until he sued for defamation for a second time, while Amber was celebrated as a survivor and a huge Hollywood Star. I understand what you are saying is an issue in some cases, just not sure if it applied to that case
Thanks for this essay!! I adore this movie and the topics it explores. What truly moved me was the film's portrayal of a strong, flawed woman - a character who feels real. In contrast, I find movies like Barbie and its (in my opinion) artsy version Poor Creatures to be somewhat troubling. These films present female characters as flawless - essentially "perfect victims/superwomen" who are always morally superior. Why cant we condemn violence against women and support women's empowerment while also showing authentic female representation?
We need complex characters like Sandra who navigate the real world, make mistakes, and have the chance to redeem themselves, or not, not all women we see need to be good and perfect. It feels to me that everybody is too afraid to show a woman that's not perfect, there are more than two options. It looks like we can either show a good woman or perpetrate the machist discourse of "look women are violent too". That's not it at all, we are more than either victims or paragons of virtue. Women are simply people. We have rights, deserve justice when we experience violence, and shouldn't be held to an impossible standard.
Is this a rant to long and intense for a youtube comment? YES, but I'm not sorry, merci Alice!
Been waiting for an Anatomy of a Fall video essay!!! Thank you so much
Thank you for giving me a deeper understanding of an already great story.
I’ve not watched the video but I’m so hyped for an analysis of this film that gets past the “good for her trope” i feel like this framing has overshadowed the discussion i personally like this film cause i think many points of it are so good of conveying the immigrant experience her being told that not speaking or reflecting their ideal would make the trail harder for her and the language fight it’s also oddly the only film that tackle multi ethnic relationships issues I’ve watched i truly loved it and i hope more ppl get over the dud she do it issue to truly see what it tells the audience
You and your channel are so incredibly inspiring to me. Thank you.
I always learn so much from each of your videos, Alice. Merci. 😎
wonderful video! will sound so much smarter around others now when the film gets brought up.
only sort of kidding. your insights are of the best kind, simple to the point they feel obvious only once you’ve pointed them out. i really enjoyed the film and talked a lot about it, the moralisation of every day life and relationships, but had not really thought so intricately about it. really appreciate you
your videos*
this was really insightful, thank you!😊
Alice is friends with colleen Ballinger btw
You just reminded me of my Medusa era in middle school! I was obsessed with mythology 😂
Alice is friends with colleen Ballinger btw
@ville__ you comment this on every single video, stalker. Where did you even find that info? no proof not valid
@@rue957It’s a spam account, I’ve seen the same username promoting spam on other channels. Report it and move on.
@@rue957 I would not engage. They are just looking for attention. I've already reported them
awesome video! anatomy of a fall was such a good movie and I really like the comparison to medusa or even lolita.
beautiful analysis once again Alice ! 🩷
amazing video, thanks Alice ! :)
would love more videos on anatomy of a fall, loved tht movie! and as always love your considerate thoughts :-)
The original story of Medusa describes her as one of the Gorgons -the monstrous offspring of Ceto and Phorcys. The story of her being attacked by Poseidon is Roman fan-fiction.
I thought of this too. Medusa has undergone many different forms over the years, this current incarnation as an abused woman is popular but not “canon” so to speak. It reminds me of a tumblr post I saw that said medusas head was on women’s shelters in Greece, but it was also on men’s shields and battle standards. Medusa was a slain monster: the abused woman narrative is a retcon that wouldn’t be recognizable to Greeks.
I noticed that too. I know my way pretty well around Greek mythology and didn't remember any rape being involved in Medusa's origin story. The two versions I've heard is that
A) She was born a monster.
B) She was a very beautiful woman who kept boasting about her beauty, even saying that she was more beautiful than Athena. Athena got pissed by this hubris and turned Medusa into a monster.
Honestly I read this version some time ago, don't even remember where, and it stopped all the gears in my brain for a moment, why would she punish *the one who was just raped*???? (So the interpretation as protecting Medusa was interesting but still... Imperfect philosopher I guess)
And what is mythology if not fan fiction? Somebody told a new story at the time to reflect different ideas and it stuck. Besides its in line with how women who get assaulted by the gods end up in your "cannon" mythology, doubly assaulted by vengeful godesses.
@@donttalkaboutmymomsyo Agreed, simultaneously I think it's important to keep in mind the historical context of updates on myths and legends. So like, in this situation it would be good from Alice to mention that the version she describes is something that developed from earlier stories.
"Anatomy of a fall" is very good film that I also recommend... Feminism is an important part of the movie but it’s not the only one, it’s also a trial movie like Otto Preminger’s "Anatomy of a murder" (I definitely don’t think the resemblance between the titles is an accident 🙂 )... and this side of the movie brings another thematic than feminism which is the traditional theme of "trial movies" : "Guilty or not guilty ?"... and this traditional trial movie theme makes the main attraction of the movie for tradtional spectators... There definitely are feminist themes in the movie... but in the frame of a trial movie that makes the vision of the movie "thrilling" for traditional public... And this traditional part brings other themes of reflection out of feminism in the movie... li’e the fact that when someone dies in a couple by suicide or accident without witnesses or documents like a letter to prove suicide, the surviving member of the couple is systematically suspected of murder by the police and the judicial system... And this reminds me of another true story... The first wife of Fritz Lang did commit suicide in the 1920’s and Fritz Lang was suspected of murder for a while by the police... fortunately for Fritz Lang, it was finally proved that it was a suicide and not a murder... but the police investigation and the fact to be suspected of murder when he was definitely innocent left Fritz Lang so traumatized that, afterwards, during all his life, Fritz Lang’s personal assistant was keeping a record of where and with who Fritz Lang was at every quarter of an hour... and Lang’s personal assistant, among other duties, was doing that, every quarter of an hour during about 50 years until the death of Fritz Lang... This side of the experience of being falsely accused of a murder is not in the movie because the movie ends after the trial... but the suspense about the accused being guilty or not, regardless the feminist issues, is definitely also present in the movie which is not only made for feminist viewers... even if the feminist themes and issues you’re talki g about in your video are definitely present in the movie.
Loved the video! Gonna share it with my mom. The urban-rural disparity has been a theme in my life (only in context to the hyper-patriarchal/feudal culture of India). Already have your book! going to read it soon! Thank you for making this :D
This film is so amazing. Thank you for this excellent video that brought light to aspects I hadn't yet considered. I would love to see a follow on video on Daniel. Subscribed!
Loved this vid, thank you for connecting a lot of dots in my mind
No need to dunk on Aphrodite (aka other women with different values) just to make a point. I feel the character also has a lot more agency than Medusa so I’m not so sure that the reference is that relevant
I‘m so confused. Whether perfect or imperfect, what was Sandra a victim of? The legal system?
The film was great, I absolutely loved it, and some of the things you mentioned (like the reverse of gender roles) were spot on, but I think it’s a bit far-fetched to compare Sandra‘s “victimhood” to the one of Medusa.
I think “Anatomy of a Fall” is in constant dialogue with “Marriage Story” that was quite heteronormative in depiction of a family and what the husband’s role is vs. the wife’s. While “Marriage Story” is absolutely soul-crushing, it does not provoke much contemplation in the average spectator, because (surprise surprise) of its heteronormativity. Most people sympathized with the character of their gender and that was it. Justine Triet brilliantly reverses the roles and makes us face our own hypocrisy: (most) women vehemently defending or excusing Sandra’s character (who blames her husband for “choosing” to be the default parent to their son) and (most) men automatically siding with the husband (who is not even there) is absolutely the opposite of what happened in “Marriage Story”.
@@humanlikecaterpillarthis is the comment I have been looking for! So many people here are looking at this movie through a bias where even when the roles are reversed, the white woman still defaults to innocent (not legally mind you, but socially). Even when a white woman fully inhabits the role of “abusive husband,” they cannot see past a veneer of femininity presented in Sandra. Sandra is an abusive husband, and he stands accused of killing his wife, Samuel. Samuel is a caring mother who sacrifices to raise her disabled son, and is punished for it by her abusive husband (Sandra) who never does the work to fit in to their environment and blames *his* (Sandra) wife (Samuel) for *his* own unhappiness.
This is a courtroom drama that plays out in real life every day where abusive men kill their spouses and get away with it, in courtrooms where gendered language is the norm. But, both Alice and many commentators here cannot look past the white femininity of the actor playing Sandra to see this.
I am not sure I agree with everything you say, but I could sit and listen to your voice all day.
omg new anatomy of a fall content!!
I was apprehensive about watching this movie based on it's subject matter, but I like viewing _"cinema"_ so I gave it a shot Wasn't disappointed. Lots of your ideas ran through my head as well, but the pageantry and circus around the situation just paints a picture of how much the media is willing to jump on board with these stories to make content.
I'd suggest taking a look at the comic Fables for some examples of happily ever after, especially in the case of immortality, not exactly what's sold.
Merci beaucoup pour cette vidéo d'analyse hyper parlante et intéressante, Alice
Thank you for a good analysis.
Salut j'aime beaucoup tes vidéos et je trouve ça trop bien que tu sois française. Franchement c'est beaucoup de courage de s'exprimer sur des sujets importants comme ça en s'exposant autant, je pense qu'on est beaucoup à t'encourager❤!
Aucun rapport avec la vidéo mais j'ai été diagnostiquée autiste il y a un an mais je me rend compte de plus en plus qu'en France c'est jamais une priorité, la culture sur le handicap et la vision qu'ont mes proches comme si c'était quelque-chose d'extérieur à moi fait que j'ai l'impression d'être deux personnes à la fois. Je sais pas si c'est un sujet qui t'intéresse mais j'aimerais bien voir des vidéos récentes qui en parlent, et plus spécifiquement en France. En ce moment il se passe beaucoup de choses dans le monde mais je demande quand même.. En tout cas continue comme ça !!💞
On depp and Hearst, if 2 people have substance abuse issues .... just don't have a relationship it will NEVER work, all that those weird trials did is make me hate famous people more.
found a new fav channel!
Can we do the entire video on Daniel? Would love that!
yep, toujours de très bonnes vidéos, je suis super content d'avoir découvert cette chaîne.
the thing I didn't know I desperately needed
Gawd, I love this movie😭😭
u just made me love the film even more🫶
Your correlation to Medusa's story was quite interesting.
Although i had noticed that there were some gender reversed role ,i hadn't notice to what extent .
That movie was really good, i find it quite funny that till now Sandra hüller dorsn't know if Sandra (the movie character ) was innocent or not but was only told by Jistine Triet to play her "as if " she is innocent.
Très bonne vidéo.
Such a good commentary 🙌
You don’t think Alice was blinded by any bias in it? She even calls out that Sandra was the “man” in this movie, a movie about a man accused of murdering his wife (Samuel). Yet despite how the movie goes through every trope of a relationship where a shitty dude murders his wife, Alice cannot see Sandra in any way other than the victim.
Today i watched at least 10 of your videos and now you're posting a new one... Amazing! Greetings and thanks for your work fron Ukraine🇺🇦✨
❤ to 🇺🇦 from 🤍❤️🤍
You ran into the Anatomy of a Fall cast?! Omg
How wrong am I by correlating "Anatomy of a Fall " to Camus the Outsider? I think she was judge more by her feelings toward society then by her doings against her husband, was more about what they accept as normal behaivour then what crime she commited, if she commited any.
Cunning linguists? ^^
Oh so cheeky
@@bestwesterner Tongue in cheeky. ^^
If I had to be partial about old Greek Goddesses, it would definitely be towards Tyche, Hebe or Athena. All are grand and worthy of worship.
I don't know if the Heard-Depp trail is the best example for this yes it was hugely publicised and it does show the difference to how people treat men and women. However, on a more simplistic analysis you had two people with histories of domestic abuse in past relationships getting together and abusing each other and in a public trail the more popular and well known person won the case. Maybe there are better cases because otherwise it kind of seems like you're defending Heard, which yes the way internet treated her was obviously wrong and biased but she is still a terrible person just like Depp.
The whole premise of your first point is that Sandra is a) a victim of abuse and b) obviously innocent of the murder. But we know that she was the perpetrator of domestic violence against her husband. And the question of her guilt is by no means clearly answered in the movie, even though she gets cleared of the charges. So I dont really get how your Point connects to the movie (which i may have missunderstood)
She is not saying that because Sandra is a victim that she must be innocent. She’s saying that there is no such thing as a perfect victim. The experiences and evidence to show why the victim is not guilty are invalidated because they aren’t “pure” enough. Humans beings especially women are multifaceted, Sandra’s humanity is stripped simply because she doesn’t fit gender roles and also engaged in mutual abuse.This is then used by society to justify their disproval as a valid reason to ignore or purposefully misconstrued evidence. She used Amber Heard as an example, Heards experiences of being abused by Depp are invalidated because she’s not pure enough and also engaged in abuse as well. Therefore the piles of evidence and reasoning of Johnny Depp obviously being an abuser, therefore should face consequences, are invalid. Making Depp suffer the consequences doesnt mean that Heard didn’t do it, but rather we should prioritize context and all the facts rather than projecting our biases onto humans. Both Sandra and Amber Heard are turned into objects for society to feel good about themselves.
But a beaten woman that also beats her husband is not just an imperfect victim. She is also an imperfect abuser. And her husband is the same. Both an imperfect victim and an imperfect abuser. Both Heard and Depp suffered from it (but neither much in the end). I find it hard to understand why an abuser shouldn't be seen as one just because they also were a victim.
@@QuestionsIAskMyself
Is her being a victim of abuse is on of the premises here? I feel like Alice is stating the opposite, more complex case in order to show how difficult then it gets to regard her as innocent of the murder (might be mistaking too)
Alice is friends with colleen Ballinger btw
@@QuestionsIAskMyselfwhat I think both you and Alice are missing about Sandra is that Sandra is the man in the relationship and Samuel the woman. Sandra cheats and gaslights Samuel and blames Samuel for her own unhappiness, just like an abusive man would do to his partner.
But, both you and Alice fail to connect this idea to the idea of Sandra NOT being a victim. If Sandra was a man and hit his partner Samuel, then Samuel beat herself up and eventually committed suicide after all the cheating and gaslighting and abuse, would Sandra the man still be an “imperfect victim?” Or an abuser?
Personally, in regards to "Anatomy of a Fall" and whether she did it or not, I thought she actually did kill her husband. The biggest reason I would cite would be how her son Daniel is so closed off from her in their house after Sandra got acquitted. You'd think that he'd at least be even a little happy to be around her. Not to mention how very convenient the last minute testimony of Daniel and that car conversation with his dad Samuel. It is interesting that they chose to show Samuel in the car saying this to Daniel but we only hear Daniel actually saying the words.
It was so interesting the way they flipped the stereotypical husband and wife dynamic in order to show how truly hurtful the ignorance of the "bread winning" partner towards childcare and house duties. He drew attention to funds and how he had to homeschool Daniel and she accused him of "choosing" that and he could just not do it, completely ignoring how he didn't have a choice.
To at least address some of the gender discourse, it's interesting to note how a lot more people would think Sandra was the guilty one if the roles were reversed back to the traditional ones. . I definitely agree that Samuel is probably not the best partner. His career is in the shitter, he's depressed and doesn't know how to deal with it. He leans on his partner who is succeeding where he's failing which I'm sure adds to the tension.
But I don't think that if your partner is struggling in life and sexually means that you have carte blanche to cheat on them because "of course". She openly admits to the cheating. When he comes to her with her problems she's dismissive and reduces his feelings to his own fault, not exactly an empathetic partner. Not to mention her reaction in the fight is to lash out and hit him. Of course none of this is evidence, it's all circumstantial.
But can you possibly imagine the optics if the roles were reversed? Man and wife get into an argument the day before the wife is found dead. Evidence comes out that during the argument that his wife is depressed. She wants to be a writer but she spends 4 days a week taking care of her blind son while the husband uses some of her material to succeed where she's failing. Because she's so depressed he cheats on her multiple times. When the argument gets heated he hits her. Again, all circumstantial but I think people would be slower to say "of course he's innocent and she deserved all of that".
For me the nail in the coffin is Daniel's testimony. He's watching his mother go on trial for murder and he has testimony that exonerates her. Why is he conflicted? Shouldn't he be ecstatic that he can save her? After he announces he has something to say he asks his mom to leave the house, he doesn't want to be around her. He begs for advice from Marge because of some internal conflict about what to do. She tells him sometimes you have to decide. It sounds like he decided he didn't want to lose both parents. After the trial she calls him and is excited and wants to celebrate but he doesn't want to see her. He loves her but he had to lie to keep his family together.
It seems like you've completely missed the point of the third act, the fact that Daniel is unsure and has to make a decision (and he decides she's innocent) is not the film implying Sandra is guilty, the lack of surety is the whole point, Daniel is our surrogate, even if Daniel did lie, that's still not an argument in favour of Sandra's guilt because again, Daniel doesn't know anything more than we do, his reactions/feelings are entirely subjective to his reality/biases and shouldn't be used as evidence one way or another
I don't think Sandra was completely fair in the argument but imo she's right about him choosing. He urged the family to live in the chalet and he did choose to homeschool Daniel. It would have been completely reasonable to send Daniel to school for five days a week instead of isolating him at home for half of the week. Samuel did want certain things to go his way and was stressed when they turned out to be difficult to deal with. Also I agree with the other commenator on Daniel's testimony.
Exept that the "roles reversal" argument is tone-deaf and misoginist. Because it doesn't take into account what women go through and just focus on the moment they act wrong.
Is easy to say "if a man is seen as bad, then the woman must be in the bad" when the causes and circumstances for those same behaviour are different.
@@kiriki4558it’s neither tone deaf nor misogynistic to say that you are unwilling to see white women in a negative light, and when presented with a situation in which the white woman is fully inhabiting the role of an abusive husband you are still not allowing yourself accept that.
@@dieda1162would you say the same thing if a man had said these things to a woman? If Sandra was a man, and Samuel was a woman, would you see the husband as an abuser?
In high school the Medusa and Aphrodite people didn't really match. Glad to have won you to the Medusa party!
Also when you said: living to learn is a path to liberation 👏👏
On the Greek Mythology, as a men, I prefer Hades - yes, the job is boring. Yes, I have the emotional range of a rock. And yes, I find romance a stupidly complex thing with more precedents then the British judicial system.
But the bills are paid on time, I prefer to see her go then to see her suffer, and I find a kind of morbid peace in solitude that no company in the world is capable to provide.
And about learning - if learning is an eternal journey, utopia is not a place, but a process that never end.
AMAZING VIDEO WOW!
Wow, so you just put that there ? Sandra did not kill Samuel ? I don't think many people came out of the movie with that sure idea.
I see some of your points of the use of institutions and tradition to control people. Found it interesting, although I'd say in trying to frame your discussion of the movie about those issues. You lose the much more interesting point it makes about truth and perspective. And, the saying that she didn't do it explicitly goes against what it is stated in the movie "That doesn't matter"
Medusa was my Halloween costume one year. It involved a bedsheet toga a bald cap a lot of super glue and a bunch of rubber snakes brought from a toy shop.
Hate to be the "well actually" guy, but...
Well, actually, there are a number of Medusa myths, each with details that are added or come in conflict with later myths. Among the earlier recorded tales (from Hesiod, IIRC), Medusa was always just a hideous monster, just like her other gorgon sisters Euryale and Stheno. Later stories (mostly from Roman authors) tell of her being a mortal cursed for courting with Poseidon (Neptune) in Athena's (Minerva's) temple, sometimes as a willing participant, other times... not so much. Furthermore, in these same later myths, Medusa's form (and sometimes those of her sisters) was described with increasingly favorable terms, simultaneously beautiful yet also terrifying.
Not that this would dampen your points. I just think not unimportant to convey that mythologies (especially of the given subject) often have myriad of interpretations.
Super vidéo !
Je me demande également s'il n'y a pas une vision patriarcale et sexiste dans la manière dont Sandra est constamment accusée sur la relation qu'elle entretient avec son fils Daniel. Que ce soit Samuel, le procureur ou même, indirectement, l'assistante sociale qui accompagne Daniel, tous semblent indiquer soit que Sandra est trop proche ou trop fusionnelle avec son fils, dans une forme de complexe d'oedipe, soit qu'elle n'est pas la mère attentionnée et dévouée a son enfant que l'on attendrait qu'elle soit, comme le lui reporche Samuel.
Cet axe est également hyper interessant je trouve quand on s'interroge sur les personnages.
Bonjour! I'm not gonna watch the video now as I want to watch the movie first, but popping in here to write a comment for the yt gods!
The perfect chalet doesn't exist but chateau does.
I love that movie. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 Thanks for making a video on this.
subscribed! please do another video on daniel!
I loved the movie
I agree with you that in the cases of both Sandra and Amber Heard is the mistake is “moving to the chalet”, or in a more general definition to agree to unhealthy conditions. However the case of Depp V Heard was a peculiar case of blurring the lines to me, it really felt like blaming a single soldier for RIPing another person during a war. I don’t think the problem was that Heard was not a perfect victim, that is what shallow people assisting the trial and the media hungry for clicks cared about, the problem was that Depp leveled the field in the escalation to the public she started and it turned out that she had actions to match in the objective reckoning trials must end up in. My judgement on Depp really changed after that. It was not a black and white situation like it was being portrayed and I believe that in these situations there should not be a clear overwhelming winner. Both Sara and Amber should have left the relationship a long time before because after a while becomes difficult, or perhaps meaningless, to say who’s right and who’s wrong. They are both both wrong in the points of the other parties and both right in their own points. How would you establish a winner? Do we have a hierarchy of offenses that is universal? They are both wrong in bigger picture and society should not create a clear case out of a fuzzy one. I don’t think Heard case however impacted feminism negatively and it should not impact it. It was a single case out of many. Let’s not fool ourselves in believing that healthy relationships are messy, they are not that messy. They can be messy sometimes but the peculiarity of those relationships is that they work together to solve issues with respect for each other.
Always a big fan of your thoughtfulness, i always end up with you partially agreeing and disagreeing both , haha, for this time i agree with advovating less domestication, but for some people that all always depend too much on others, idolation is the only answer, atlest for specific time. Wish you, have a Good time, untill we see u next time, sweet miss.
Good video 👍🏻
Dont use external loctus of control take acvountable for ur poor judgement and decisions better on the inside dont let outside forces dictate ur life do better
I might have been one of the only French children who weren’t forced to take Latin as an option. My parents were extremely strict about school but never forced me to take options. Dressing up as mythology characters must have been so fun, though 😌
Love you
The originality or unusualness of the screen play,
is that the two writers wrote a whodunit script with no denouement.
This was their 'risky' plan from the start.
It is the main element in deconstructing, the ‘all too familiar’ police procedural,
and unmasking it, making it into something unique.
With a lack of clues conveniently ‘fed’ to the viewer… the audience is left,
in a mindset of constant logical mental stimulation.
Rather than in the ‘usual’ purely emotional rollercoaster of seeking righteous revenge.
This is the films reward... or ultimate disappointment.
And to accentuate this, the writers remove scenes that might sway the viewer,
from inferring decisions made from positions of authority.
As in missing out on the police interrogations, the medias view, etc.
Therefore the viewer is left unsure, what exactly to believe.
There is no one telling you, what to think, how to feel.
This divides the audience into two camps. Those that instinctually believe ‘she did it’.
*Police procedurals are habitual… That’s why ‘whodunits’ are so omnipresent.
They are made in order to find the culprit and to see them being caught.
As we're given only one possible culprit... we want them brought to justice.
And those that are left unsure and therefore are more likely to feel she is innocent.
As there seems to be… so much reasonable doubt.
The lack of a predicable narrative ending, is exactly what doubt is all about.
It is the feeling of being left in anticipation, in the anxiety of never knowing the truth.
Then in the court room scenes… they push on her possible innocence,
by making the belligerent prosecutor actor shave his head.
Dehumanising him, but also ‘importantly’ to make him seem unsophisticated,
compassionless, determined, almost brutish.
It underlines the fact that courts and the criminal justice system generally,
is 'brutishly blind' when a case is not obviously clear cut.
That a trial is a battle between ‘convincing stories’ out of a haphazard series of unconnected facts.
The prosecutors are ‘fiction writers’ themselves, weaving stories that are believable,
but notably ‘turgid’ ones, that are made only to ‘emotionally resonant' with the jury.
Just like the writers of TV/Film 'police procedural' shows do for their audience.
The writers also reversed the normal stereotypes of an anxiety filled,
and overly emotional man. With a cold and distant, successful, womanising,
even calculating female. This reduces the viewers ability to empathise with her.
Again, distancing the possibility to comfortably settle on a final resolution of guilt.
Pushing you away from her, as does her nationality. Which to some extent, does the very same thing.
Why is she so 'cold', why isn't she 'shouting and protesting her innocence'?
The film tries to increase the complexity of doubt within her supposed intensions.
Those that side directly with her, can also see she is manipulative and frequently lies.
For we constantly see her ( a part-time translator ) try and use English as a medium,
or a ‘middle ground’ between her own native tongue and French.
Yet, she actually uses this as a system of control.
She’s literally reducing the ability of anyone around her,
to think as quickly or as succinctly as she can.
It is a ploy… which she consistently uses to control situations to her advantage.
She uses a lawyer, she knew had ‘at one stage in their lives’ loved her.
Yet we see she has no feelings for him at all.
She is using him and his emotional state for her own purposes.
The film finally focuses on her child. Who has physically impaired vision,
but metaphorically, is as blind as the viewer to what actually happened.
The boy asks his court appointed carer “what shall I do, what do I believe?”
Her reply is significant to the story as a whole.
The boy is faced with seeing ‘justice’ done… and having no parents at all.
Or making up a story and choosing to believe in it… as the only truth.
And regaining a parent. What would any child ‘still on the cusp of innocence’
do in his position?
For the jury, the boy is the least useful or reliable witness.
Yet he becomes the determining ‘featherlight’ reason for their final verdict.
Emotion outweighing reason, as their doubt was obscured by sentiment.
The film is asking you… how do you make your decisions, with so few real facts,
and do you ever ask yourself… why you chose to believe in the things you do?
There is a Brazilian book about this kind of subject, called "Dom Casmurro", in which the main caracter tells his tale by his POV of his suspicion that his wife (nicknamed Capitu) was cheating on him.
But that is the point: he only have the SUSPICION based in certain incidents he witnessed and heard from others, and the tale is told in the first person.
In the end, nothing is clear, no answer is given, and the main character dies without a closure.
That created an "internal joke" amongst Brazilian people that, if you believe that the guy is Brazilian, but you are not sure about it, you ask the person: "Hey, did Capitu cheated or nah?"
I looked up your book, and the only Site Libristo has a different cover and subtitle - do you know about this? I rather spend more time with research, because min mid-EU ordering books suck >
It’s interesting to me how many men claim to be bored by this movie. „What’s the point of this film, I could have read an article about this“ „Zero tension and you don’t even get to find out who the murderer is in the end“.
First of all: would they have read an article? Probably not. And finding out who did what isn’t really the point.
When I watched this movie, I felt so seen. So often, I have been made into a perpetrator, especially as an angry girl within my own violent family. And as an opinionated adult woman? People find all sorts of reasons not to have empathy with me or to find me partially responsible for being stalked. „She’s beautiful, she’s just playing the victim and you’re falling for it“ „White woman tears, we know all about that“ (even though I never cried in public about it, whereas my stalker cried to everyone, whether or not they wanted to listen, about being ignored by me while simultaneously painting me as the worst person ever).
Seeing this trial in Anatomy of a fall made me feel understood. Also the way that Sandra doesn’t really give into Vincent’s interest in her in the end. Is it due to her wanting to stay independent and/or still having to work through the trauma of losing her husband and being in this very public trial? Or is it something more sinister? Her not feeling private enough to start a new relationship after the trial? Being worried about how she will be perceived if she gets into a new relationship with, of all people, her lawyer? The way in which you constantly feel under surveillance when you are a victim, especially not a perfect one (just like everyone is?), how your whole life gets dissected, was very accurate. And I think this alone is worth making a movie about. It forces people to empathise, maybe more than they ever could with a real person. It’s a start to a larger conversation. Which is why I thought that Anatomy of a Fall was excellent.
Unfortunately, in matters like this, with so many people out there being so opinionated, the problem is having empathy - we Humans unfortunately are too taken by emotion in matters that cold logic should be the only lens, and the movie shows that emotional manipulation IS a tactic used in the court system to sway the jury, and more then once, such thing had been used to convict innocent people and liberate guilty people.
And in such a case as in the movie, where physical evidence is unreliable, witnesses are just not trustworthy enough, and a biased judge, the only thing left is the word of the prosecution and of the defense to convince the jury.
And ANY good lawyer will tell that when this is the only option left, they will go LOW AND DIRTY in the manipulation...
Sandra was not the victim in the marriage, but in the trial process. Also we have to acknowledge that there was a factual characteristic of the fall that raised suspicion. This was not a witch hunt, this was a cruel system taking you apart as it found possibility of a crime. I am pretty sure a man would have gone through the same experience. We can actually take a look at JD in the first trial and see similarities, he also could have said that marriage is chaos.
Can you make a video about Poor Things?
I have a beard and horns, and I'm very cute actually. Although people do get stoned when they come see me so idk
Thank you Alice
The concept of ''perfect victim'' reminds me the accusations, against the victims, that take place when a war/invasion happens. For example about wars and genocides in middle east its so common to hear that they don't treat women equally (which is true but in reality they dont give a shit about them because they rape and kill women) , that the kids throw rocks at police officers. You cant justify the wars that you do by blaming the victims that they are not submissive enough.
You know who's not imperfect? Alice Capelle
13:31 Ugh this hit hard. I live in a rural area with no public transit and in the fall my car broke down and I haven't been able to afford to fix it, or fix it myself because of weather. I basically had a month long episode of psychosis this winter because of the trapped feeling I have had. Even now my mental health is hanging on by a thread. As much as people may idealize the isolated remote life, it really can degrade one's overall mental state; first in subtle and then progressively more noticeable ways. Maybe not so much if one has money and can get away, but when you're vunerable it is... 'a whole thing', as they say.
The woman who is kind is an Echo.
The woman who is too honest is a monster. She reflects fear, and pain, and evil, and every person beholding her imagines themself a young, innocent child inside, the kind who must be protected. Are they entirely wrong? So you know she must fight for herself, for she cannot expect truth, and self restraint in return, and the only possible end to giving away bloody chunks of herself is to die many kinds of deaths, if she will not, or cannot protect herself.
And a higher power? One need only look at the caged goddess Athena. The woman, recreated as the superior man's brainchild, repositioned as guilty, and grotesque, and three different women, all lacking loyalty, all at odds, all fighting, as if that was their greatest disgrace. Yet she is called strong, and wise, and clever, and worthy when she becomes the sexless right hand of a man who brought her forth from his calculation, when she fights for him. But never is she allowed to retain herself. Like an owl, she is assumed to be only her huge empty eyes reflecting someone else's supposition of the ferocity poised to fight or aid them. The goddess who spanned every woman, and all creation in unity, with her very being, becomes a vision of whimsical cruelty, egoistic bravado, and one full of disrespect for what makes a woman, a person, unique and strong. But how could it be her, and not the ugly projections of those who behold her, and would demolish her? There must be an underlying ugliness to her, to humanity, to life, and to those who continue the cycle. There must be spiritual poverty. And most of us, drilling down deeply enough, could hardly deny there exists some significant ugliness to this life, to continuity, to the promise, but also lack of nourishment. But this is not a matter solved with an account book of good and bad. Nor is this a moment to be led astray by those who view this matter as a wedge to manipulate, and so defend their own cruelty. It is a time to tightrope over the abyss to an uncertain destination, following the genuine reflection of our souls reflecting our reality. It is time to risk the particular damnation of who we really are, in pursuit of the truth. It is time for true courage, and we may discover many, maybe even most, do not have this courage. As a back turns in fear, truth is lost, and delayed, and anyone counting upon the salvation it brings in public forums is damned to broad injustice, to silenced, and reimagined goddesses, and lives, buried alive under convenient suppositions of the cowardly. What higher powers are left but the soul, and time, stretching through reality further than we can make it at any moment?
In a chalet nobody can hear you scream...
The Dog did it.
Do you do content anywhere in French?
Nice video. In other news, my president (Brazil) made a gay wedding photoshoot with your president (France) in the amazon rainforest. I hope you make a video about what is being said in France about this "tour", and maybe what your country will take from the Brazil, from the forest, and indigenous people...
💚 💛 🧡 ❤
i'm curious as to if we'll ever see a positive video topic? i understand that it's about spreading information and that it's a channel about politics and so on, but it would be nice to see something about a topic you liked once in a while.
btw i feel for all the victims of sexual assault, but i have only once in my whole life met someone in reality who had been abused in that way. that is of course one too many, but my experience is that 99% of men are really respectful and sweet and doesn't want to harm you in any way. at least here in Denmark
fuckin great vid!
Thanks for the video as always ! Also loved your book btw.
Now, I'm probably projecting since I'm autistic, but the way Sandra handles herself, treats other's feelings, and the fact that she was bi (there is an over-representation of LGBTQIA+ people in the neurodivergence community) felt like she was too. She didn't have the "right" reactions, which didn't make her a "good" victim. I figured it was another layer as to why she absolutely didn't fit into people's typical image of the grieving widow. She wasn't portraying her emotions the "right" way.
Read the outsider - it make your point too!
if the Oscars thought about an award about how to transform a very good movie into ideological crap, you would definitely win.
I just cooked a bunch of French food for a restaurant in Eugene