When Mussolini Nearly went to War against Hitler
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 14. 04. 2021
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What about the next 30 days?
One thing people don't understand. Not all facists agree. Hitler also disliked Franco of Spain. If I'm not mistaken. Mussolini called hitler a barbarian. Especially since Romans called Germans such names back during antiquity.
iirc after france was taken over by the germans and franco's spain refused to aid hitler in the war, hitler sent a letter to franco implying that he might have the wermacht cross the pyrenees, to which franco replied "i wouldn't recommend it they might catch a cold"
Iâve read somewhere that, apparently, Hitler thought highly of Mussolini but Mussolini thought that Hitler was completely bonkers.
@Humanity Galatica Yes Austria didnât like the NatSocs at first. The NatSocs even attempted a coup against Austria, which was an authoritarian regime.
@@basedkaiser5352 Hitler thought Italians were inferior
@@basedkaiser5352 the Nazi coup is what led to annexation
The nazis also supported Ethiopia against Italy.
Another thing to mention is that Northern Italy has a sizeable German population in the Sud Tyrol region (also known as Alto Adige). Mussolini was apparently worried that after a German takeover of Austria he would set his eyes on the Sud Tyrol
Hitler actually reassured him beforehand that he would not contend that area!
"Ideas govern the world, or throw it into chaos"
-Auguste Comte
Ideologies too similar seem to fight against each other. Reminds me of the Sino-Soviet split.
braindead take
Actually, the original Fascists despised the Nazis, mainly because they saw each other superior to the other and Nazism was seen as a troublemaker by Mussolini. The fact that there were no other alternative allies after the occupation of Ethiopia meant that it's pretty hard to say "I wouldn't join you even if you were the last person on Earth"... Because they were.
@@hyperion3145 I do follow original fascism in fact here is the book of Mussolini sjsu.edu/faculty/wooda/2B-HUM/Readings/The-Doctrine-of-Fascism.pdf.
@@sethfrisbie3957 why would you put your IP address behind a statement like that?
@@theletterw3875 Ever heard of VPNs? It might not be his ip address..
My life is a hole of hopelesness and darkness ever since 3 minute history only goes out in patreon.
I must admit, as interesting as these new videos are, I am missing the little guys a lot. I get that Jabzy is trying to monetize himself and trying out some popular marketing techniques to that end, but I do worry he may sacrifice more of his artistic vision than necessary to comply with those marketing guidelines. Hopefully, he finds the happy balance where he can make a decent living while still making his distinctly Jabzyesque content.
@@genericpersonx333 I am a long time viewer and have been enjoying his recent vids. This one and the accounts especially
@@nicholasg3250 same here. And at least his views have been better since than almost aceros the board.
@@genericpersonx333 I disagree. The three minute things are a bit fun. But this goes into more detail, better production and animations. Some of the three minutes leave me feeling wishing for more
@@spencersss1251 You disagree that I think I miss the little guys? I didn't think I was not thinking what I was thinking, but maybe I stand to be corrected? ;P
Mussolini probably saw the Anglo-French alliance as being weak, and he wanted to recreate the Roman Empire, who in history never managed to conquer the Germanic kingdoms but owned Brittania and Gaul (Britain and France), and feared a repeat of history when the Goths sacked Rome.
It wasn't Mussolini's choice, the choice was made for him by Britain. Britain betrayed the Stressa Front by allowing Germany to re-arm their navy literally 2 months after pledging to not allow Germany to do that at the Stressa Front. Britain also did its best to form a wedge between France and Italy.
Even as late as 1939, Mussolini attempted to form a secret alliance against the Germans, but Britain responded by blockading Italian ports.
â@@halorecon95 Of course. The whole point of WW2 as in WW1 was a fight for the rights of small nations, whether Ethiopia, Poland or Belgium. Did he really expect the British and French to just allow him to create an empire and subjugate others. No way. And this is where we see the link between Fascism and imperialism. The difference is that Mussolini wanted an empire in Africa and maybe parts of Asia, and Nazi Germany wanted an empire in Europe itself. Even Franco wanted to recreate the Spanish empire if he had the chance. Which almost every European country was against. That is the reason why FDR and Americans as a whole was against Fascism as a whole, because of their imperialism and anti-democratic stance. They were against the Japanese war of Aggression against smaller nations, which is why many actually went on strike when they found out the material they were extracting from the earth was being used to make bombs against Chinese cities. So Mussolini had a choice, join the good guys and defeat Nazism or join the Nazis and aid them in their empire building as well as your building your own. Its the same choice with Japan. Stop your empire building and subjugating others or we will stop supplying you with materials to wage against China. Japan like Italy chose the wrong option and plunged its citizens into a war they did not want and could not win.
@Humanity Galatica If you don'y like democracy, then what ideology do you like?
@Humanity Galatica I thought you were more of a futurist?
â@Humanity Galatica But Why? What purpose is there in colonizing the galaxy? If it is more resources to feed a growing population, then colonizing the galaxy is not the answer because we already have enough food to feed 10 billion people, but the economic system we have in distributing such food and resources is inadequate in meeting human need.
Have you ever seen a homeless person outside a shop, but then the shop keeper comes and throws the food in the bin, then locks it, because no one was buying it and it is against the law to rummage through bins, even though that person desperately needed it, that is what I mean.
czcams.com/video/kkIRmLyrP18/video.html
czcams.com/video/Rs5hOleAlc8/video.html
Or is colonizing the galaxy some form of Christian metanarrative to find god or something like that?
Man, I'm a big history nerd and I've NEVER heard of this wow
If you're interested in ww2 history I am making playlist about ww2 leaders
All Italians like me know this because We studied it at school
Hey Jabzy excellent video! I love your historical analysis videos, I know it might seem as a one off but I think it would be interesting if you did a video on your prediction for the future ie. Borders, economics, wars. In the next decade. I would want to hear your opinion, just for fun, keep the great historical content comingđ
I never knew this, thank you for chare this very interresting Topic with us.
So again, English didn't kept their promises to others, but this time it led to WW2!
We kept our promise to Poland
The perfidious Albion stroke again
Pat Buchanan is an excellent historian.
As always different and so cool. Thx
Keep up the good work Jabzy! Love your maps btw! Maybe one day you can say where you got them from?
The maps on this one? I made them.
Man its me do you remember me?
Awesome video as always.
Awesome Video ! Been a Loyal Fan for a long time!
Thanks a lot
3:21 Ah, nice that Austria is being mentioned
Do you have a list of sources or books to read to find out more about this. I had no idea about what was happening in Austria. It always seemed like it was huge support to join Germany and the only issue was outside countries if Germany tried to annex
This is the only video on this subject on CZcams. It's a very interesting and overlooked story that not even the biggest Military History buffs know about. It also goes to show you that Mussolini didn't have to choose the dark side if he didn't want to. Had he stayed on the side of Britain and France and fought against Germany he could have avoided his demise and stayed in power for many years like Franco in Spain or Salazar in Portugal.
Here's another interesting alt history scenario: in 1998 Iran almost invaded Afghanistan. Had they did so, this might have prevented 9/11 and potentially America's interventions in Afghanistan and maybe even Iraq
i doubt, Iran already was a Islamic theocracy by then.
@@maximilianolimamoreira5002 yeah but Iran wanted to invade because the Taliban murdered Iranian diplomats and were committing ethnic cleansing against Afghan Shias. Had Iran threatened Taliban hegemony, maybe Bin Laden and his associates wouldn't have been able to organise 9/11
Mussolini: @everyone Hey does anyone else hate that weird irreligious racist "nazi" dude in Germany with the funny mustache?
*Dollfuss and Horthy have entered the chat*
Great What If scenario! It helped show how different far right ideologies like Fascism and Nazism aren't are as matching and far from moderates as people nowadays think.
A fascinating topic! Thank you for covering it!
I first learned of the tensions between Italy and Nazi Germany before their alliance from the alternate history book "A Greater Britain" by Ed Thomas, in which Oswald Mosley became a Labour MP and eventually Prime Minister, not becoming disillusioned and a Fascist. His friendship with Mussolini and other factors eventually cascade into a short war between Italy and Germany, essentially an escalation of the events of our 1934. World War II and associated atrocities are completely averted. It was eye-opening to learn of the geopolitical situation in Central Europe and especially of Austria's position during the early 30s. An excellent read.
Another AH book, one which explores the ideological differences between the Fascists and the Nazis, is "Shadow of Montreux" by Pablo Portillo. The allohistorical formation and eventual split of its Fascist International highlighted the differing ideas, currents of thought and philosophical grounding of Italian Fascism and German Nazism. They differed in several important ways, both in the book's Universe and our own.
Once again, thank you for making this video and for spreading knowledge about this often overlooked part of history.
Only a fascist would want Oswald Mosley to somehow become British leader and team up with Fascist Leader Benito Mussolini. Would you say Ed Thomas is such a person?
@@vegitoblue5000 No, not at all!
The Oswald Mosley in the book never became a Fascist in the first place. He managed to become a Labour MP and eventually PM, and he never became radicalized and horribly anti-Semitic. His life in the novel took such a different path that he can not be described as a Fascist. In the novel, he is just a fervent Keynesian, who also reformed the House of Lords to be more modern, similar to the modern Irish Senate of our world. The British public remember him as a decent leader. That, and while his relationship with Mussolini in the book is close, "teaming up" is pushing it. The war with Nazi Germany in the novel is too brief for that, and Mosley lost his position of Prime Minister near its end. There is an epilogue, which shows that the world is not so rosy even with WW2 averted.
I never, for any second reading that book, felt that the author was pushing for Fascism. The greater acceptance of such beliefs in the novel's world in the epilogue is not presented as something positive.
@@roawesomeface1947 So what exactly happened when WW2 was averted and the millions of people who suffered, starved and was outright murdered did not come about.
How could such a world without WW2 be much worse than the WW2 that killed an estimated total of 70-85 million people perished, or about 3% of the 1940 world population?
@@vegitoblue5000 WW2 showed us what horrible consequences come about after unchecked anti-Semitism and hypernationalism reach their logical conclusion. These attitudes were spread to a greater or lesser extent everywhere in Europe in the Interwar years, not just in Germany.
WW2 showed the world what intolerance, hartred and prejudice produce: genocide, death, destruction. It was, for millions of people, a wake-up call. It is the reason why our world is so much more tolerant and, well, Liberal.
The book does not say that an averted WW2 would create a worse world. On the contrary, the chapter before the epilogue is downright beaming with excitement! For millions of people, this world is better, both for the obvious ones (those who survived) and for those around them. So much senseless death has been avoided, and we should be happy, as readers.
And, indeed, we should. It's just that the author shows us that such a world, while definitely better in a lot of ways, has retained that intolerance. It never blew up, but it lingered for much longer. And Fascism retained a veneer of respectability, as it was never lumped in with the worse Nazism and, in fact, opposed it. A world in which being an out-an-out Fascism is reasonable is, for me and presumably fo you as well, a world with much problems.
The epilogue shows us that an averted WW2 word not produce an Utopia. We should remember that, and the reasons why.
@@roawesomeface1947 I don't know if they show it in the book, but in this alternate world, what happened to the British Empire, is it retained thus calling it "A Greater Britain"? What happens to the Soviet Union, does it get invaded by the rest of Europe? And surely someone went to war with Japan and that would give the world an example of the evils of fascism.
Sick lamp there
2:35 -Horothy?! Its Horthy!
Yes that's correct
Fascinating
A series of unfortunate events...
You Are right. AĂ an ally Italy harmed Germany way more. Good that they became allies....
Wow that wouldâve been different.I knew about tensions between Hitler and Mussolini but nothing about the what was happening in Austria
it's not that popular in mainstream media and conversations, that's why.
@@maximilianolimamoreira5002 Nevertheless, later on Mussolini allied Hitler and loved almost everything he was doing.
@@moisuomi
I read in one book that Mussolini wished that Hitler would lose in Norway so Germany would be weaker.
@@salamyaya162 Yes because he noticed that Germany was not yet as powerful as Italy and Mussolini wanted Italy to become the powerful one instead of Germany. I honestly donât think Mussolini gave a fucking SHIT about how many Jews, Slavs, and Gypsies the Nazis were killing.
@@salamyaya162 Oh and plus since you are Muslim, did you know more Muslim troops willingly fought for Germany than Italy?
So basically UK and France just had to give up Abyssinia and WW2 looks massively different.
Exactly
Very interesting.
This video enraged Adolf's father, who punished him severely.
Quoting Oversimplified?
There's gonna be a tax for that
@@jeanmoulin1443 STAMP.
@@areasevenpro oof saying stamp eh, to the guillotine
@@funghi2606 DUDE!
Uncool.
And he.was.pissed.
that little black dot to the right of you which has popped up in multiple videos is killing my ocd watching these
Italy also would have been able to mobilize colonial soldiers
nationalism cancels out nationalism
will you put sources for what you say? No issue with your channel just want to know where it is sourced
Hey - one of the problems is I tend to take a tiny bit from sources here and there, rather than 1 whole book. But, if there's any aspect you'd like to read more on I can send a link to you.
@@JabzyJoe Great to know you use varied sources! Have a nice day
@@JabzyJoe thanks for the offer of a link for a source!
Well, if you want someone who can corroborate with more specific sources, and who is a professional historian supported by other professional historians, try TimeghostÂŽs Between Two Wars Season One. It goes over the Italian invasion of Ethiopia, the Italian support for Austria and the way that Adolphus had seized control in Austria itself, the state of the late Weimar and early Nazi militaries, and the appeasement process although it does not mention the British naval treaty in particular. It does though mention things like how even as late as the Munich Treaty, the French and Czechoslovak armies would help on a two front war and actually had more troops than Hitler did and probably could have plausibly defeated the Nazi army in 1938.
@@robertjarman3703 awesome
WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR INFO, WHERE ARE YOUR SOURCES
It's history book
Why Hitler, an Austrian let Mussolini keep South Tyrol until 1943 when Mussolini became Hitler's puppet & Hitler annexed S Tyrol, but wouldn't let Poland keep Danzig, the Czechs keep Sudetenland, or French keep Alsace & Lorraine. It would have made sense to offer Corsica in exchange, which Italy got for Nov., 42 to Sept 43.
Because Mussolini had by then become a military ally and thus temporarily allowing them to keep land that had Germans in it was seen as a price worth paying. Had Germany won the war South Tyrol would have eventually been annexed.
saluto alla romana đŠ đźđč
Hmmm, this means Allied action in Spain
cao cao once said i would rather betray the world than have the world betray me.
Yes it's was almost during 1934
The divide between National Socialism and Fascism is even larger then most people think, to the point where National Socialism has more in common with Communism then Fascism, which is a significant part of the reason why large swaths of German Communists where willing to change to the Nazi party overnight. The ideological divide between Communism, Fascism and National Socialism is large enough for all three to be rightfully considered distinct ideologies, even if all three are socialist in nature. In that respect the Second World War can in many ways be seen as a civil war within the socialist world in Europe and between Japanese imperial ambitions in Asia that happened to involve the United States, United Kingdom, France and the Commonwealth.
TIK has made multiple videos exploring fascist and national socialist economic and social policy that have been quite interesting to see public education frankly doesn't actually cover these details of history when glossing over the second world war.
I was going to tick the 'like' button until you called DollfuĂ a fascist.
A defense treaty with England and France wasn't worth much - the war scared counties had them with Czechs and you know how that held up..actually France told the Czechs that if they fought, France would help Germany, so I do not see hope for Austria.
Meanwhile in Poland, "It's alright guys, if Germany invades us, then Britain will come and save us! They pinky promised!"
@@synkkamaan1331 Actually the Czechs asked their polish allies to help defend them, but Poland said "no, France would not want that, so we are going to grab a bit of Czechoslovakia when Germany does."
@@tommy-er6hh Damn son! That is a comedy of errors!
That war would of lasted a couple of days at the most
Italy vs Germany in 1934,
Wonder how that could of ended...
Italy would have been more useful to germany as an enemy than as an ally
@@hazzmati I think they could have been more useful being neutral.
@@hazzmati without Italy as an ally, Germany would have fallen in time 0 and would never have reached Africa
@Humanity Galatica Italy hardly won against Ethiopia in 1936, despite fielding the largest military force ever seen in Africa and indiscriminately bombing civilians and hospitals, even using chemical weapons. They also couldn't conquer Greece without massive german help. Are you seriously suggesting a country that could hardly conquer countries with way smaller populations and hardly any industry to speak of, would be able to take on the most populous and heavily industrialized country in Western Europe?
Maybe they'd have an advantage in the first weeks, but once german industry kicks into gear, the italians would be easily crushed. Remember, italian industry was a joke, hence why their armies performed so poorly that even the Romanians and Hungarians were more useful allies.
@@MrMinecraftsebi Except for the winter offensive the Italians didn't really have a hard time in Ethiopia and the gas attacks were a way to speed up the war effort.
In 1934 the Italian army was actually not weaker than Germany's.
It even could be argued that Italy had a stronger military in 1934 than in 1940. Mussolini wasted alot of military resources in Ethiopia and especially in Spain (in 1937, 2/3 of the Italian military budget went into Spain).
Also this was also only 1 year after the rise of Hitler in Germany, so the Germans hadn't really had the time to rearm.
Also Italy's entire war plans invisioned a war in the alps, so they had the advantage there.
About the 'muh 99 percent' myth in Austria. The Austrofascist party had 2 million members and even if just half of those were loyal to the regime, that would still be 15% of Austrians who would support Austrofascism.
Seeing also how Germany's war of movement thrived in flat terrain, i don't see how they would be effective in the alps.
I don't see Italy losing the war, but i also don't see Italy winning the war either. Italy's industrial base couldn't handle a total war to occupy the entirity of Germany.
Probably Hitler would seek a peace with the fascists in the south, after he realises that a victory would not be on the horizon.
Or the war would continue to be a stalemate until eventually the western powers would intervene on the fascist side and Hitler would lose.
Music is a bit too loud
so...mussolini wasnt the "bad guy " at the begin.....
@Humanity Galatica Was Stalin a bad guy in your opinion?
Why do not "80 years war"?
would the cold war still happen if WW2 started that early?
maybe
I mean.. would the austrians really have joined Italy against Germany if they ever went to war? I find that extremely hard to believe. First of all you had WW1 which speaks for itself, which ended with Italy grabbing austrian territory.. and if you ask me I don't think austrian nationalists were happy about that. Secondly, the austrian approval rating of the germans were high in comparison to Italy so I don't think they would want to go to war with their old buddies. Who knows though.
Either way, I don't think Italy would have a nice time against Germany. The german rearmament began in 1931 (or that's when it was exposed to the world), and if a war loomed between Italy - Germany, Germany would probably have sped up the process. Interesting scenario though overall.
do ww1
Fascism can come in many different branches or schools.
You should watch the videos from TIK titled "A Short History of Mussolini and Fascism" and "Hitler's Socialism". It'll take about 6 hours to get through but is quite interesting in the level of detail he goes into on Fascist and National Socialist ideology, and how National Socialism is ideologically closer to Communism then Fascism.
@@ZontarDow I suggest reading this sjsu.edu/faculty/wooda/2B-HUM/Readings/The-Doctrine-of-Fascism.pdf.
@@sethfrisbie3957 I'm well aware that fascism is a line of socialist ideology
@@ZontarDow no it is not.Fascism is a form of imperialism.Socialism and imperialism are not the same thing.Fascism is actually right wing.
@@sethfrisbie3957 you could have simply stated "I know nothing about socialism and fascism" rather then posting an L.
Why all the graphics with you with your finger in the air and your mouth open?
Or you could just play Hoi4 and do this
Go back to your discord server, mapboy
The unification of church and the right-wing is a recurring theme in Europe of the time
Wait wait wait... You mean to say Italy would change sides? No wayyyy đ
There are No sides in politics, only interests.
Imagine if the 20th century would have been marked not by WWII and the defeat of Nazism by Western Republics & Monarchies but instead by Fascists.
Imagine the repercussions, much of Europe could have adopted Fascism instead of Republics.
The Italian army would get dismantled.
National Socialism and Fascism are certainly very different ideologies. They only share the fact that they are both far right. But only a fool thinks both ideologies are the same.
Then what do you called Japan? A monarchy?
Also does this mean Mussolini was actually a good guy? NO
Fascism isn't far right.
Fascism was born to inspire a faith not of the Right (which at bottom aspires to conserve everything, even injustice) or of the Left (which at bottom aspires to destroy everything, even goodness), but a collective, integral, national faith.
-Jose Antonio Primo De Rivera
"I am not, and never have been, a man of the right. My position was on the left and is now in the centre of politics"
-Oswald Mosley
â@@moisuomimore like Japanese Militaristic
Its just typical Italian diplomacy : changing sides
You know Nothing about italian geopolitic. If anything France and Britain tried to control and appease a socipath while sanctioning legitimate colonial expansion by Italy.
another comment by an ignorant person
Well far-right countries canât get along forever. Ultimately their jingoism will clash. Iâm surprised Bolsonaro and Trump didnât ultimately fall out.
BTW youâre handsome. Please marry me.
Because Brazil and The US are a continent apart, and do not have many clashing interests
I mean, fascist Italy liked to pretend they werenât racist but treated those in the colonies like cattle, also Mussolini wanted to solve the jew problem in Europe by sending them to Semien in Ethiopia
Mussolini didn't hate Jews. His mistress was Jewish, just like some members of the Italian fascist party, which was open to Jews for most its history. At one point Mussolini mocked the Nazis for their delusion of racial supremacy, although Italian fascists had a racist conception of black Ethiopians that they used to conquer Abyssinia. Antisemitic legislation was only introduced in Italy after tremendous pressure by Hitler's regime when Italy and Germany formed the axis. But even then, Jews in Italy were mostly spared of persecution. It was only after the Germans invaded northern Italy (when the rest of Italy switched sides in the war after deposing Mussolini) that Italian Jews started to face deportations to death camps. I'm not whitewashing fascism in any way, but the original Italian fascism looks like a joke compared to the nazis.
All Europeans treated Africans like cattle, the same way Chinese and Arabs treat them today.
@Humanity Galatica Senussi massacre.
@Humanity Galatica I donât see how that was ânormalâ. Also dropping mustard gas on the Ethiopians
It doesn't matter if Mussolini could raise 6 million soldiers or not, they would still be Italian soldiers.
Italian soldiers fight like lions. Italian Generals are another story.
@@lordofhostsappreciator3075 Well, I've seen lions run away scared from cranes, so I donno.
@@Nabium what lions the french?
Mobile gambling apps disguised as games are evil, shame on you.
Relax. He has to make money you know.
@@luxembourgishempire2826 I'm sure that's what the nazis told themselves as they picked gold fillings from dead jews.
@@kellscorner1130 Yeah cause thatâs totally the same thing
@@kellscorner1130 :)
Music disturb