Barnekov Greene Prototype 1870 Open-Bolt Army Rifle
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- Patented by Kiel V. Barnekov of New York in 1870, this is a toggle-locked, single shot, open bolt rifle. It was entered into the US 1872 rifle trials which would ultimately select the Allin “Trapdoor” conversion of the Springfield as the next US serve rifle.
Barnekov’s design was intended to be simple and foolproof, although it had real problems in terms of safely carrying and accurately shooting. One would cock the action open and manually insert a cartridge into the chamber. When the trigger was pulled, the action would slam shut, two extractors would ship over the cartridge rim, and it would fire. When the action was then manually re-cocked, the extractors would pull out the empty case and drop it through the open bottom of the receiver, and the gun would be ready to have another round loaded and fired.
Trial records show that the Barnekov rifle was withdrawn from the 1872 testing, and it never appeared elsewhere afterwards. This carbine appears to be a prototype of the system in .45 caliber - perhaps a pistol cartridge. In the formal trials, a full length rifle in .50-70 caliber was submitted.
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It looks like a musket I tried to draw from memory when i was 9 lol
Same thoughts this is also how i draw any type of old rifle that isn't a bolt action
Correct
3:56 *Adolf Furrer appears*
Someone say "Toggle lock?"
Adolf never saw a toggle lock he didn’t like... Until he saw this one.
@@briansmithwins And even then, it gave him a curiosity boner.
Wide Boy what video is it from?
The 1870-s prehistoric open-bolt SMG
maybe the opening below was for a Glock mag.
Maybe.Or for PPSh drum mag.
A MP5 mag could also work
Very similar to a system my friend Bill and I came up with when we were 11. His father, a gunsmith, told us it was the worst design he had seen. Obviously he had never seen this weapon.
It's still a terrible design. Just because someone else made one doesn't make it good.
@@mkultraification😆 Agreed, but in our defence we were 11 and it was a first attempt.
Craptacular but interesting
an 1870s rifle with sights you cannot use, seems correct for the period
So weird to think that in just 20 years people'd be using Krag's, Mausers, and SMLE's...
It's like looking at the timeframe between the Wright Brothers to the Apollo Program.
What's even crazier is that we had a machine gun 14 years later!
I don't know much about Mr. Greene either but I do know he did it in the conservatory with the revolver
With the Humane Horse Killer device.
Hahaha🤣
Open bolt infantry carbine... thats... thats not right
Its incase they wanted to adapt it to full auto
@@DeepCFisher now I want to see this with a big ol' brass feed chute on top.
@@Strawberry92fs And SBR too.
We kid, but i can see this being adapted to a magazine style. Imagine it would have a feed ramp and a few mods on the bottom and it would work. We've seen worse, haven't we?
With the open bolt and open bottom, it would seem that a fresh cartridge would easily fall out if the muzzle were elevated, and the soldier would be unable to use the weapon against an (even slightly) elevated target.
Perhaps he was counting on the cartridge being to long to fall out from the gun?
I hadn't thought of a problem with elevating the barrel, but it also looks like this would be really difficult to load without dropping the round out the bottom. There doesn't seem to be anything to guide the round into the chamber.
I also have to wonder how many times a finger got caught in that thing.
The cartridge would probably stay in place with the half-cock option engaged.
Fouling might help with this actually
Pretty neat rifle. Having a modern repro in something like .44 mag would probably be alot of fun.
it doesn't look all that fun to shoot though
@@sinisterthoughts2896 make it 50 BMG)
@@nostrotoro You, sir, are a glutton for punishment. That tiny platform in .50 BMG? Deadly at both ends!
@@BillB23 Imagine Jatimatic in .50bmg...
You'd need to bolt a scope on it to sight it though. Don't have to go all tacticool either- there were halfway usable scopes back then.
It's interesting that Mr. Barnekov's patent would have expired soon before all the full auto toggle locks were manufactured.
Seems to me, on top of the numerous safety issues mentioned concerning this design, there are a few inherent design flaws as well. One being the trouble a soldier might have in keeping a round in the chamber from just falling out (and maybe not even realizing it) when needing to urgently fire the weapon or in the heat of battle. Secondly, having a wide open breach while slogging through the wilderness, even with a single shot, is less than desirable.
I love guns like this...the weirder the better
What a fantastically strange action. I'm both disappointed it didn't also meet up with the box magazine to make the first semi-auto rifle and glad it was not adopted. An open bolt would have been a nightmare in dirty conditions.
Looking at both how short this is and the fittings on it, I'd say this isn't even supposed to be an example of what a carbine of this system would be. It's more like a super short 'condensed' proof of concept for the musket version. A carbine of this time 'should' have a cavalry type sling ring along the side of the action, this has a comically short span between bottom mounted sling swivels. It really screams 'proof of concept firing model' to me. So much proof of concept as to not actually matter if the sights work or it can hit a target, just prove that the action functions and fires and can be more than a paper sketch.
There is something so fascinating to know about these forgotten firearms.
Maybe the sight on the hammer/bolt is to be used like the sight on Colt blackpowder revolver hammers in conjunction with the front sight. I'm just guessing.
looking at it , that is exsactly how it should work , but for all the reassons that gun jesus pointed out it would have never worked , the sights on the toggle dont line up with the front sight post , the delay between triger pull and fire would be mesured in parsecs and the bolt slamming forward would just throw any accuracy out the window
@@randomusernumber1 parsecs measure space, not time. Though... it does have a long way to travel.
@@WeDontTalkAboutJosh , that is part of the joke ,because of "this is the ship that made the bla bla bla in parsecs ; :D :D
@@randomusernumber1 I mean I knew where it was from, but Star Wars is way more popular than astrophysics terminology and you can never be sure everyone got the joke... Ah well, never mind me. Best go and put my pedant hat in the wash for next time.
The other rear sight might be a relic from using a preexisting barrel then.
Might have worked as a shotgun... wait, that would make it 1870's Terminator. Except very expensive and quite reliable.
Open bolt in 1870? Yes please!!!!
Thank you, Ian .
Ya know, cool on paper for sure. It's interesting to see the failed ideas, and then later you can see it's influence on successful ones. I'd wondered where the open bolt idea came from, now I'm closer to that answer thanks to your diligence. Thank you.
“...Fascinatingly Cool...”. Could not agree more!
For a split second there I thought Ian was going to say “Let me show you its features”.
I could swear that gun blushed a little when Ian coked that hammer
“Cocked”😅
This thing is AWESOME.
And gun jesus did praise the mechanics of the goofy system, but oh did he wonder wtf was this dude thinking...praise be the word of gun jesus....amen
Very cool gun!
Very cool mechanism indeed.
Funny looking gun, the type Elmer Fudd would use!
Nah, he's always got a double barrel. And don't dis a double: I had a granny pierce my brand new jeans with a double 20 loaded with ice cream salt while trying to steal a watermelon, back in the days of my ignorant youth.
Very cool!
Thanks
"Let me show you...its features".
This iis one of those great examples for "Just because you're unique doesn't mean you're useful".
Barnekov told Greene ~ “ We’re taking a shot in the dark with this one.”
Ian, you should start remaking these cool old guns in modern calibers for your devoted audiences viewing pleasure please and thank you
Definitely different and unique.
It looks like somebody took a child's drawing of a gun and made it a real thing.
Very interesting open - bolt rifle
WOW .... just WOW !
I love how the Forgotten Weapons logo in the title car is just getting more and more deep fried by the year.
Looks like the markings say "July 4th 1870"
That's what I thought too.
Probably June 14th 1870. That's the patent date, and that's also what it looked like to me.
Very very cool.
Definitely interesting.
That rifle has dwarfism.
It barely qualifies as a long gun! It's about a hair's breadth from being pistol length.
Would've been cool to see the action working with a dummy round
no wonder its forgotten! :)
I love all your videos. And have slowly crept through your catalog of videos on CZcams. It is not so much that guns succeeded or failed for me. It is the interesting manufacturing knowledge knowledge that slowly gets created overtime in the industrial revolution and up to the modern era. You can see the difference in engenering metallurgy ballistic And most importantly reliability. I think you yourself most enjoyed the Beretta 38A as a surprisingly excellent Piece of engineering and weaponry. This Open bolt single shot just demonstrates the ingenuity of the individual. A truly American trait. Whether it's 400 or 500 years it is of manufacturing weapor your 1st year it's all quite fascinating
Now if the rifle had been a closed bolt system, it would have made a lot more sense. Cock the rifle on open/close and then fire when ready.
Maybe Barnekov couldn't work out how to make it closed bolt (or someone else held that patent). As you say that would have made more sense and a more useable gun.
@@IceWolfLoki If the designer knew how to make this type of firearm I suspect a closed bolt system wouldn't be too far off but as you've said, a patent might have been in the way.
An open bolt in 1870? Id like to see if it still shoots.
Ever here of the Henry or Winchester? They're toggle locks and aren't some silly open bolt.
@@CThyran ive heard of both of those companies and there guns.
@@CThyran what do either company have anything to do with whether *this* gun still shoots?
4:14 "Upward vector of force" Nice title for a movie!
I personally wouldn't want to have to take an uphill fight with this one. Lol
*Borchart sweating* my pistol is the first toggle lock system.
Proof that if it can be done, it has been done.
Brilliant video! Fascinating dead end weapon. Meanwhile in Europe, Chassepots and Dreyses are battling it out.
This is exactly the stuff i love, weird firearms designs.
Is that a prototype of a terminator cobray?
A real forgotten weapon!! Nice gun, would love to own it...
Greetings from Austria!
That's some beautiful engraving. I wonder how they did it.
I love the smooth curves on the action, too; that's just a really elegant appearance. Too bad that it doesn't work worth a hoot
nice nifty thing, I wished I had the money to buy it and have it cleaned up and restored for use. must be lovely to fire that thing
This reminds me so much of the cobray terminator
Sweet-sweet-sweet litlle carbine
Looks like it would actually be pretty easy to convert to a magazine fed semi-auto. Very basic principles, but simple usually means reliable.
Maybe instead of a halfcock they put a safety that stopped the bolt just befor it hit the breach, that way rounds wouldnt fall out
I wish I had the tools to make a lot of the old rifles he shows
Gun Jesus tells us the story of Barnekov the Green!
Interesting design despite its flaws
Maybe you use the sight on the hammer piece as the rear sight, because it may take account for the bolt slamming forward.
Maybe if you changed it to closed bolt, with some sort of lever by the trigger for cocking. Also, perhaps a magazine under the barrel with some sort of lifter. That would make a fine rifle.
it looks like what Evil Dead Ash would break out to cap heads if he found himself trapped in 1870 along side a steam powered chainsaw for his other hand XD
Troop trials at that time must have heavy on Adrenalin.
Just wondering are your videos monetised? I heard yours where not but I get multiple adverts? Happy to watch them if they support you if not !!!!
it's like someone tried to make a remington rolling block but decided to make it open bolt and give it an extraction claw
The firing system is quite intriguing. It'd be okay for casual shooting, but not so good for shooting on the go/under fire. From the looks of it you can't chamber a round until you're ready to fire, without risking the cartridge slipping out.
Neat.
More 1872 trials rifles pls.
All it needs is a lift\elevator arm, a more forceful ejector bar(attached to the toggle), and a box magazine, to be the most wonderfully advanced bad idea of all time...
Wait...
I kinda like the idea of what I just described.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 no really, the box magazine didn't exist yet? Stop being a wet sack, and embrace the funny. "Well, aaaaaakchualy" personified...
I would guess that you would aim the sights on a standing footmen, then open the bolt basically locking the sighting in, load and then fire.
Toggle action, pre Luger. Would be interesting to adapt to an SMG. Shorter receiver, less weight. Could even revolutionize bullpups.
Well, there's the Furrer SMG, a notoriously big, heavy and clunky gun.
@@janwacawik7432 We're talking 2019 technology, not 1919. In other words, shorter stamped steel (or machine aluminum) receiver, open bolt, striker fired, delayed blowback toggle. Toggle acts as buffer, delayed blowback eliminates need for 3 pound bolt.
@@smorrow That firing pin would require being within a bolt. Striker fired is much simpler.
‘This, cheek rest’
Hadn’t perfected the sights by this point obviously.
To be fair, in 1870 the idea of perfect sights mostly consisted of, "look, it has sights!"
@@nettles89 and they're really tiny so you'll be able to hit really tiny tings
I might be mistaken, but I see a correlation between the extractor of this gun and some of the shotgun extractors I've seen in shotguns.
Holy sweet mother of beautiful mechanics being tested for nearly the first time!
He was right about the handling being simple. In fact, I think I can sum it up with one word: "Don't."
I could be mistaken,but in the closeup shots of the receiver it certainly looks like it consists of a right and left pair of stampings. Stamped receiver in 1870? Mr. Barnekov may have patented the wrong thing
I wonder if the loading idea was to push the rim of a cartridge down between the extractors. Moving the spent case out the bottom and holding the round ready to feed. Doesn't look like there is room to insert (angle, tilt) even a short pistol size cartridge in the chamber. Plus, in getting this built you don't think someone pointed out that when you tilt the gun up the round falls out?
A clever implementation of a bad idea.
Vintage ACR program :)
I'm wondering if the barrel, like the stock, was from an existing carbine, just came with sights and the notch in the back block was supposed to be used as the rear sight by itself.
Ejection isn't an issue. A slightly stuck case could be knocked out with a finger or the next round when sticking it in.
this could have been cool duel pistol :D
This is literally the 19th century equivalent of the Cobray Terminator. I'm starting to wonder if the man behind the terminator went back in time, thinking that he could sell his terrible idea and made this abomination. But even the 19th century wanted nothing to do with it.
A couple of changes to some angles in the firing mechanism, and adding a magazine, this could easily become a semi-auto.
Well....it was a black powder cartridge so probably not
@@bret8369 I was referring to the operating mechanism itself, not the cartridge.
How likely would the cartridge be to fall out (especially if used on horseback)?
Ian!!! Get outta my head!! The universe is weird. I was JUST thinking 2 days ago about this concept (basically for home made / last ditch manufacturing) and if it was ever tried. Now I'll watch the rest of the video.
I could see a alternate timeline where this was adopted and ten years down the line the mad lad figures out how to make a s3mi-auto rifle. Maybe even a pistol version, befpre the luger comes out
Is there anything that holds the cartridge in place while you carry the gun? Maybe those extractors in the half cocked position?
It looks like it could’ve made a decently interesting take on the Winchester idea, it’s a single-action, magazineless, short-barreled carbine
Hey ian, are you in Tennessee today or recently? If not there’s a guy I’ve seen twice who looks just like you.
Any chance you can do a video covering all the multi shot firearms available when the 2nd Amendment was written. Everyone claims only 1 shot muskets was all that’s available
He and Karl aren't as pro second amendment as you'd think
@@bret8369 What's it matter, I'm not even American & I'd be interested in that.
It matters because that video has American political ramifications and I think that Ian for sure wants to avoid that.
If you want a video like that I think that Stephen Crowder did a video on that.
And a round of applause for Mr Puckle (q.v.), not forgetting to pack your square bullets!
First Allin Conversion was the Model 1865, 2nd was the Model 1866. The Model 1873s were all new built, not really conversions anymore.