The Last Gaming Laptop You’ll Ever Need? Framework 16 Review
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
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The Framework 16 is the most unique gaming laptop I’ve ever tested! It has a crazy level of customization, repairability and upgrade options including swappable GPU - but it does not come cheap - Let’s find out if it’s worth it in this review!
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Framework Laptop 16 (2024) Review Timestamps:
0:00 This Laptop is Crazy!
0:16 Design & Build Quality
1:02 Laptop Specs
1:11 Upgradeable GPU Installation
1:40 Size & Weight (With & Without dGPU)
1:59 Keyboard, Touchpad & Lighting Customization
4:36 Fingerprint Scanner
4:48 Port Customization with Expansion Cards!
6:06 Display Connections to iGPU or dGPU
6:44 Problem with HDMI Expansion Card
7:05 Getting Inside & Internals
7:42 SSD Upgrades & Speed
8:22 Wi-Fi Speed is Crazy!
8:30 Upgrade Options are Insane!
9:21 Speakers & Latencymon
9:37 Battery Size & Power Saving Features
9:50 Battery Life Comparison
10:08 Battery Drain
10:33 Cooling Design
11:10 Lack of Performance Modes
11:38 Temperatures / Clock Speed / TDP
13:07 Improved Thermals in Newer Models
13:43 CPU Performance vs Others (On & Off Battery)
14:52 Does it Feel Hot - Keyboard Temperatures
15:26 Is it Loud - Fan Noise
16:03 Screen is High
16:37 Screen Color, Brightness, Contrast & Bleed
17:01 Screen Response Time & Latency
17:53 MUX Switch?
18:24 Camera & Microphone Test
18:40 3 Game Comparison at (1440p & 1080p)
20:13 3DMark & Content Creation
20:33 BIOS
20:53 Linux Support
21:12 Pricing, Availability & Laptop Deals
23:07 Is Framework Laptop 16 Worth Buying?
23:56 Even More New Gaming Laptops in 2024!
Disclosure: Purchases made through store links above may provide some compensation to Jarrod'sTech. - Věda a technologie
People complain about the price but this product is not aimed at the general public. The average laptop buyer is not used to upgrading anything, they just buy the new thing. As it stands, it's a very cool concept for the enthusiast market. Congrats to framework for releasing such an "outside the conventions" product, let's see if in a few years it has been successful.
This... heck, I build computers and I almost never overclock even though I build them to be able to. Very few will do any serious upgrading on anything so this thing is definitely a niche atm... but it would be cool if they start pushing new industry standards.
@@hang10wannabeI want to see CAMM be adopted
The reason the "general public" is not "used to upgrade" is because you can't fcking upgrade anything.
That stops now, culture must change, education is the way for the utopia.
Looks expensive at first, but if some parts inside gets broken or obsolete after years of use, you can simply replace/upgrade it with new parts for less price
@@sihamhamda47 I don't think the savings are as compelling as you think. Buying extended/more comprehensive warranty or insurance is cheaper if damage is what you are concerned about. In terms of upgrading later on, buying laptops on sale and selling your old laptop will also be cheaper than upgrading parts on the Framework. The long term cost savings (if there even are any) are marginal at best. This is not a product you get if you are looking to save money. You get it because you are very peculiar about your PC specs, the laptop layout, and the novelty factor.
9:01 it's over 9000!
And at 9:01 too
Plenty effort for very small detail
Netizens: We are not the same!
Me: Aww, someone said the comment I wanted to say.
what? over 9000!?!
Framework sent out an email yesterday saying they made a fix for the mid-plate flex. Some people have their laptop already and Framework will offer the parts for those who want it.
Awesome video, your answered some questions I have about the laptop and it was a thorough review. Thanks!
They seem to be very dedicated costumer service and care.
@@BouncingZeus It's impressive to see how transparent they have been throughout this whole process. When things have gone wrong, they've let everyone know and done their best to fix it, whether it was their fault or a vendor's.
Yeah, I have a 16" on pre-order for the purpose of my work making CZcams videos and I have watched as Framework has tackled so many problems with their suppliers on power delivery, CPU heat, GPU drivers, firmware, etc. They have shown transparency and diligence in addressing ongoing issues which makes me confident they will continue to provide new and better features and expansions. The only piece missing is a 240W USB-C PD power supply as they recommend for their laptop when using the dGPU. I'm sure that they will have it as well though as soon as their supplier do. I also have to agree with the video that buying the Ryzen 9 isn't worth the money, since all benchmarks barely eek past the Ryzen 7.
@@jandjrandr That's awesome, I hope it serves you well. Elevated systems did a review on this laptop and used software to edit his videos, he had a rough time. I recommend checking out that video.
I agree with you. In the past, I have spent way too much money on buying high end SKUs that are past the point of diminishing return. I learned my lesson, I'm not going to pay $200 more for a CPU that is 100 MHz faster. I can't wait to get my laptop. I didn't check my email until two days after framework launched pre-orders, so that put me in batch 7. I'm starting to obsessed over this laptop. The engineers at framework are amazing, I can't wait to see what upgrades they'll have for laptops in the future. I noticed that it costs $876 for owners of the original 11th Gen laptop to upgrade the battery, hinges, screen, top cover, web cam, speakers, and Ryzen 5 motherboard with the RZ616 WiFi module. A new bare bones laptop will cost $850. After seeing that, I need to be careful with my laptop and not buy every single upgrade framework offers, my laptop won't be cheaper if keep throwing money into it.
@JarrodsTech as a software developer I really really appreciate you having a dedicated section on Linux support. Little things like this make you the best laptop reviewer IMO
eh, his section is pretty... brief...
Doesn't touch on the topic of drivers and the like. Quite a lot of his videos that showcase laptops that have Nvidia GPUs and their compatibility with Linux don't really go deeper into things like Wayland support, driver issues and so on and forth.
@@jamesbrendan5170 true but for that to happen there needs to be an audience to speak up saying they want more linux info, pretty sure nobody in his team knows much of linux too.. Otherwise we can still rely on info from places like reddit, and other such forums.
@@jamesbrendan5170You only care about wayland and stuff if using nvidia, because fuck nvidia and their proprietary shit. On the other hand things just works on amd parts, which is the exact path framework chose to go to support both OS
@@linhusp2349 hey I am not familiar on the low level stuff here, are you saying that amd has better support for linux because nvidia apparently has proprietary drivers?
God knows how long I've waited for innovation like this. It's still pretty expensive, but I will begin to save for this. At least now I won't be stuck with a specific gpu/cpu pairing for years.
also can upgrade at your budget/time, not invest into a new laptop ever 3-4 years.
I don't really think that will work out.
You forget that CPU and GPU are married to certain mainboards.
At the end you end up with the problem that you will always be limited by your mainboard.
It's even worse. I checked the website and every Mainboard component has a fixed GPU and CPU.
You can only exchange the Mainboard with another one.
So the author of the video is lying at this part.
And don't forget that every electronic part has a life span. If your parts get 5 years old you are good. Every year longer and you are lucky.
What I mean is when you upgrade your Mainboard CPU GPU module....it might only take another year until the rest has to be replaced.
people have forgotten that we had DIY laptops in 2012, and that gpu upgrades have been a thing for ages
@@schizofennec It's because most of the general public were either unaware of their existence or they had no access to them. I only found out about them in 2019 when I got a post-IBM thinkpad.
@@stemill1569 laptop prolly wont change in sizes. And remember what is mentioned, everything is open source that means even the chassis. It's similar to how the cabinets are treated at home. Therefore he is not lying. Yes motherboards are for 2 or 3 gens max but after that u can change for a better motherboard, and some motherboards do still support older gens. right now they have fixed GPU and CPU becoz they only have 2 versions of the laptop released. 13 and 16.
20:53 Props for the Linux support section, even if its simple, we are really proud of the official support from the Framework folks!
That gave me more confidence to buy.
I believe the Framework 16 does support 240w charging, if you can find a charger that can do it. IIRC from the blog post Framework decided not to do that because inefficiency losses from converting 40v (What USB uses for 240w) to 12v (What laptop motherboards run on) were great enough that they'd need a (relatively) massive charger just to get rid of the extra heat.
22:30 Oh hey you mentioned it.
A large benefit of this laptop is the ability to upgrade RAM and storage at market prices. That brings the price more in line with equivalent laptops, especially now that a lot of them come with soldered LPDDR5 that makes it impossible to buy cheap and upgrade at home. Not to mention the macbooks that now cannot even have the SSD upgraded. I am seriously considering getting this laptop after university with the intention of adding 64gb of ram.
Yeah, that's why I don't buy Macs. You literally cannot upgrade or even replace anything broken except on the $7000 Mac Pro, and even then, only the propietary SSDs can be replaced because Apple is greedy.
@@cameronbosch1213 I actually thought even the SSD was nearly impossible to replace in new Macbooks. Something like you could only replace it with another one of identical size.
@@leonro It is. Only the Mac Pro can have its SSD replaced AND upgraded. The MacBooks all have soldered on SSDs, which are enough to prevent me from buying them.
@@cameronbosch1213they also have a tendency to fry themselves and the certified repair shops claiming it was water damage.
There’s a reason more professionals are unironically using gaming laptops for work now
This was a great review!
Though, I do have to point out, I wish people realize that the best point about this laptop is the repairability, reusability and only then the upgradeability.
The thing is, if you have some defect, if you spill something on it, if you drop it, a car goes over one of its corners, a million possibilities, well, in those cases, Framework is by far the best in:
a) actually be able to repair it at all
b) have the cheapest / most minimal repair done to it
In relation to point a), most people have no idea how hostile towards repairing most other brands are. And how you might find youself forced to buy a new laptop or to replace big portions of it, even if only something very small needs to be replaced. Also that sometimes even if theoretically the repair can be done, realistically it cannot, because the OEM doesn't want to and because 3rd party repair shops (or you yourself if you want to) cannot find that component to buy it. And in other cases even if you have the component, the system might not accept it, unless you "calibrate it" aka use a special tool, that only the OEM has and doesn't share it, and if it doesn't want to do the repair, then you're, again, out of luck.
So, yes, it is more expensive than a similarly spec laptop, and usually has other downsides too (like more flex, or worse speakers and touchpad etcetc). However, it is basically the only one that you know you can use for the 10 years. INCLUDING if Framework goes bust next year. Because almost everything is open sourced, the community, and you, can buy other parts, you can use other Framework as parts donor, and ultimately, you can even build those parts yourself (or with some help). This, again, in the absolute worst case where Framework disappears soon. If it doesn't, then getting spare parts is trivial.
So, at least for me, the whole idea of the Framework laptop is that you have control over it, you can be sure that you buy it, you own it, and you can use it, even if unfortunate accidents happen. Also, if you upgrade it, there are already options to reuse the other components. Like, if you upgrade the Mobo + CPU (you have to upgrade both) then the old one you can put it in a small case and use it as a home/media server, like, say, for your TV. Or you can sell it to another one which needs to replace its mobo + CPU because the one it had got corroded by the Cola it spilled on it.
Lastly, on the upgrade part, two more points: if you find something you like you can keep using it, while upgrading the rest. For example, a keyboard / touchpad / numpad / macropad that you REALLY like, you get it once, and can continue using it for 10 years, even if you upgrade the CPU and/or GPU 5 times in the mean time. That is, getting a better CPU now doesn't have to come to checking how that laptop's keyboard is. That is awesome, to me. Second point, if you have low budget, just getting the Framework itself is expensive, but the upgrades, if you do it to older hardware, can be cheap. Say, if you have a Framework 13 with the original 11th gen Intel CPU, if you upgrade NOW to a 12th gen Intel CPU, because it's not the latest one, you can get it 2nd hand much cheaper. So, in theory, you can spend now, say, $2500, and another, say $400-500 (ok, maybe $1000 with GPU) in 6 years for a not-latest-gen upgrade, and use this laptop for 10 years, without it getting horribly out of date. (and before you jump and say that it's unrealistic or stupid, I'm still using a laptop from 2016 with i7 6700 and GTX 1060. I got lucky to hit the best GPU, but ignoring that, the system is still usable and it doesn't feel that slow for most tasks (notably except gaming). Going forward, the upgrades will be even slower, so if you get a high end CPU now, like 7940HS or 14900HX, it will likely still be very good in 2034, it should age better than 4-core 6700HQ)
Now really lastly, if you DO care about sustainability and pollution and all that, then you'd realize from what I wrote above, that this laptop, is, by far, the one which will have the lowest waste, if you think long term.
Exactly. The screen is probably as good as it gets unless they offer a Mini-LED, OLED, or 3 : 2 screen option. The CPU is probably more than adequate for most users like you said. Really only the GPU is the a bit weak, but given AMD doesn't really have anything more powerful for slimmer laptops in their lineup for 2023 or currently in 2024, this was probably the only sensible option, especially given Nvidia support on Linux is still somewhat sub-optimal.
As for the open source parts, this is huge. If Framework does go out of business, the community can and likely will continue where Framework would leave off, kind of like all of those old 7 row keyboard ThinkPad mods. (Yes, this is seriously a thing!) And the repairability is by far the biggest thing for me. With Asus soldering on the RAM on the G14/G16, Alienware doing the same on their X series, and many other non gaming focused brands trying to make repair hard (like Dell's 2024 XPS lineup and of course the king and cause of all of this, Apple), Framework really stands out.
I hope you put Linux on that laptop in 2025 when Microsoft kills Windows 10 support and keep using it. As I say, if it still works for what you need, you probably don't need to replace it!
Yes, you are completely right with the fact that money shouldn't be prioritized over sustainability. For way too long, large corporations had used consumer psychology to lead us into thinking that we should just replace our stuff every few years. Because that is how they push their "point of sale" revenue. Back when my mother was borne. A toaster and a blender used to last for 10+ years, if not longer. Because they were made to last. Let alone repairable.
@@cameronbosch1213 Yeah, I put Gentoo on it, finally (loong overdue) a couple of months ago, between Christmas and the new year. It's been going pretty good, I really like the improvements in the workflow (I'm a web developer). On the gaming side I only tried a handful and so far it worked pretty good. But I'm still not convinced yet that I can play all the games I have on Windows.
Though it's not perfect yet, I still have a lot to tinker on it. But it's already solid enough for me most of the time. I haven't even booted into Windows for more than a month, and that Windows is rock solid. And so far, I haven't seen any sign that I won't be able to make this better than Windows on all aspects.
So far really, the most annoying part are the extremely stupid scrollbars in Firefox, Chromium and Steam (which uses Chrome or something Chrome based). For Firefox I managed to make it work, the scrollbars no longer autohide, are no longer very slim and I can middle click to scroll. Still inferior to what I had in Windows, but close enough. On Chromium and Steam ... yeah... whenever I middle click to scroll and nothing happens, I lose one brain cell.
this should be the new normal for how laptops are designed , having powerful hardware that can me moved around at the users will.
Appreciate the fan noise test, couldnt easily find another review with fan noise, not even Linus even mentions fan noise in review
>69 upgrade score. My life is complete
easy market
nice
I love this kind of upgradeability and repairability. Should be industry standard.
I believe that thinking of the Framework 16 as "a gaming laptop that could be upgraded" gives off the wrong impression. As mentioned in the video, its price-to-performance is not great compared to other more integrated options. It might make more sense to think of it as "a repairable, customizable, modular laptop that just so happens to be able to game too"
Yup! As they age, I hope more people will share and show how this can actually be very price competitive in the long run. Because of how repairable is. And how good / confortable is to a) choose what and when to upgrade and b) be sure that you can use the laptop for years, even 10 years, even if Framework goes bust tomorrow. No other brand is even close to that.
Yeah, someone told me here that we missed the point, that this laptop was meant mainly for repairability, and not for upgrading.
Ok sure, diehard framework fans gonna fan, but I am not drinking that Kool aid then. Framework is not what i have been looking for in that case.
I support right to repair, but this was not what I signed up for when thinking about a daily driver / gaming laptop. I look for price/performance first before other things.
*and before anyone says it, yes I get it, this is not meant to be a gaming laptop GOD DAMN. I was just looking for reason to support your damn thing jeez.
This was a laptop reviewed by a channel that mostly reviews gaming laptops.
This marketing is misleading in that case.
@@RuyGedares_GuyRedaresyou missed one point: is a small recent company which is running this, obviously with major investors but as every new product it's very expensive at the beginning, obviously if framework can't lower costs this product don't deserve more support but at the moment I'm totally convinced that even with that price someone who supports "right to repair" have to support this just because if this product is successful it'll gonna do pressure in the entire laptop industry
Hey Jarrod I'm making a custom Loq laptop with that i5 12450HX process which is also present on that Arc laptop which you reviewed so I'm pairing it up with a RTX 4050. My main use case is editing videos and uploading podcasts on CZcams so will this processor be enough for this use case or should I go for a more powerful one?
This is the greatest hope of the entire industry
Yea, tell me about it. 😊
Yo, Jarrod’s Tech just helped me choose my gaming laptop. Hats off, Jarrod.😊
Hey Jarrod,
Does the display flash black when plugging/unplugging the charger and the display has to switch the refresh rate?
A little dismayed that the laptop isnt available everywhere yet. Been waiting for years.
Yeah unfortunately it takes years to completely achieve a paradigm shift like this. Let's hope it continues to grow and one day becomes mainstream.
It shouldn't be too long. A lot of intelligent people are involved in the project.
I'm a scientist living near the North Pole and I DEMAND a Framework laptop to be delivered in an instant hahaha 🌈
Thanks for actually recording the fan noise with a mic. I was wondering if it was one of those fans that made a high pitched whine but fortunately it sounds like that's not the case here.
Yeah, Framework has definitely worked a LOT on their fan tuning and cooling solutions. I reccently upgraded my FW13 to AMD and HOLY SHIT it's so much better. It's loud, but it's low enough in pitch that it actually helps in feeling like white noise. You're not distracted by it. And the cooling performance is somehow way better, too.
@@spdcrzy That is less Framework but AMD using less power under load, what results in lower heat output > lower rpm on fans > less noise.
@@benjiro8793 This is also true. But Framework's thermal solution is also miles better than it used to be.
Very good and thorough review as always! Good job
How does the palmrest area feel with all those pieces? Since it's not like the usual single continuous piece but a few spacers together with the touchpad piece, the seams might feel weird if the alignment isn't perfect, plus I also worry about dust getting into those areas
Jarrod can u plz include powercfg /a command output in every laptop to see if bios supports S3 sleep out of box because I'm fed of gaming laptops dying on me and before buying next one i need the solution.
Day 1 of asking
This is sooo good!
Excellent review, thx a lot!
The desirable config is about 2500USD.
At those price range,
1) I'd need some power-limit controls
2) Promise that better GPU module with 16GB Vram will be available by like next 2-3 years (upgradable GPU is what is worth the price for a gaming laptop IMO)
3) some sort of promise for mainboard upgrade in future-- when mobile zen 5 & RX9000 series becomes available
4) perhaps a separate power connector/adapter just to power the GPU module(if GPU module requires more power)
Given that there are barely any All-AMD laptops available, this basically is the choice.
Thing you hope for AMD parts is slightly lower prices compared to intel or nVidia, that argument gets lost here.
Why you need all that VRAM? Unless you're gonna do some AI stuff
@@reiniermoreno1653 @reiniermoreno1653 is it Illegal to do AI stuff ? Or want to have 16Gigs,
It's a lot of money, $2500, I better get something that isn't going obsolete in 2-3 years.
@@harshivpatel6238 the only thing which 16GB would be useful on a laptop would be AI, why you have so much VRAM just to gaming? For 1080p those 8GB will be still fine for a decade
@@reiniermoreno1653 let's see how it goes till 2027 shall we ?
@@harshivpatel6238 save this then
what browser do you use for the youtube test ? Is it edge with all the power saving features on ?
Hi Jarrod , please could you do a review on the Rog strix 4060 laptop and benchmark it on heaven, there is no info as to what performance it should have on the bench mark and I recently had some very mixed results
Jarrod vid. Automatic like and share.
So regards the laptop. the GPU temps are stellar i hope that when a newer gpu comes they improve the cooling even more for a heavier gpu. cpu at 80 degrees at just 30w kinda worries me but just a little. and idk if there will be a Speaker module, that would be amazing my favourite laptop model is the 2021-23 zephyrus. had everything i wanted but. having the repairablility really appeals me, i've seen ppl rockin laptops from like 10 years ago, and still runing like a champ. framework have a real potential.
Yeah. 7 year old Clevo beast here still running great *touches wood*. Thing to remember, low-mid load cpu temp can be from poor cooling or from a preference for silence.
I'm playing with a cheap 13900hx Acer right now and it's CPU thermals are worse in eco mode with no fan and 45W pl1 than in max turbo jet mode at 157W
The problem with the "future proof" stuff is usually it didn't last because not enough volume. Remember MXM upgradable laptops, it didn't last 2 Nvidia GPU gen then being cancelled with soldered parts later. I have an older 2013 MSI GT 60 laptop and you could replace your dead GPU, CPU, battery... witch is good enough for me. But if the upgradibility is only for the few years, better change every 10 years for the top. It's still good for environment and less costly.
Still it's interesting and it should be the future of all laptop industry !
An honest thank you for the help on finding a new laptop. Went with the asus tuf. But MAINLY, glad to see someone that enjoys most of the bands I learned guitar through. Thanks mate! Aman Amarth is top tier!
How is the asus tuf? I was looking for a laptop and I am looking at the advantages model. I wanted to know if I should get that or go with the asus rog g14(2022)
What does the scouter say about the upgrade score ?
It's over 9000.
There is a battery charge threshold in the BIOS! Amazing! Above and beyond! I've totally forgotten about Thinkpads. Plus I can even game on it.
This had to have unbelievable amount of planning. For the panels to work the way they do.
I'm amazed that the Macbook got half a point. What was that for? Like a pitty point or something? There is literally nothing you can upgrade on those things. Hell, you can't even replace the lid angle sensor without getting some BS artificial error from Apple.
8:02 didn’t framework themselves make an ssd expansion bay as a basis for the gpu?
Great review.
Well, I ordered a FW16 at the end of Sept, and am in batch 12. Hope it comes soon.
I have 2 slightly different HP x360s circa 2917 or so, and the keyboards on BOTH are bad. I am actually using a Logitech K400 on top the HP keyboard right now.
If I had a FW, it would be like TWO MINUTES or less to replace it. I have had both of these HPs apart to replace batteries and upgrade RAM on one. The RAM is maxed out and isn't enough for me.
FW answers all that and more. Yeah, it costs a little more. The irritation of the bad parts is a bigger irritation than the price.
Waiting patiently.
Still lighter than my g18! and i can finally put the trackpad in the damn center while still having a numpad. I'm liking this.
The issue is without a doubt the price. I love the ability of this. But price is still a hard sell. This is something mostly budget people need yet only premium prices can be afforded lol.
I'm pretty sure there'll be a version that'll be more affordable for budget gamers in a couple of years. It likely won't come with all those accessories though.
But if you just count how much your last 2 laptop cost (and how you might have had to throw it away because of a single little failure, its fine...
For me who buys stuff in used market this one will be perfect, because it will not be expesive to fix it and could buy even 5+ years old one and still fix and run.
I hope rich folk could buy it for compine servive long enough to degrese it's price when they enter into mas production
@@iraklimgeladze5223 Yeah same lmfao.
Living on a budget still requires some forward thinking and planning. Do you buy a cheap pair of shoes that you'll definitely need to replace sooner rather than later, or save up for something more durable?
Jarrod, will you make a video about the Lenovo Legion 7i pro GEN 9? I really want to buy it, and I've got no one to suggest me anything!
Is the body swappable too? Unsure why Framework, Lenovo and others make that blade edge at front that is not great for wrist ergonomics? Oldendays thinkpads had a nice waterfall edge in front. Seems upside down in modern designs -- where style is deemed more important than comfort / usability ?
I had to replace my laptop keyboard recently and the process looked like pain (I brought it to a repair shop, couldn't do it myself as it require soldering and open everything else, remove the screen,...). This look like a great solution once I have money to upgrade
Here's to hoping they release something like a 7800m module. That'd be my "welp time to buy" sign for me. Having that visible upgrade goal to the to top end specs should be something available imo
Yep. The combo of feasible portability with docked power would have me sold. Someone surely will do a detachable watercooling mod too, to allow for a weight and space saving on the air-only heatsink, allowing it to be made with premium components (vrms etc) and flexible HX CPUs
Which is what I'd expect from a premium priced option such as the framework in the first place
Very nice, if they will contineu to make upgrades. And if other manufacturers will use the same standard
There's a lot of cool ideas in this laptop, great product. One thing I wish they would have done a bit better is hiding the gaps that show the pieces are modular, it would be nice if it would integrate more seamlessly that way it still looked normal instead of like Lego blocks. But that's a me problem, and I still really like all the ideas they put into the different sections that are able to be swapped out.
Now this is what I cal upgradability! The Framework laptop is amazing, we need to see this in more laptops!
I really hope they succeed, cuz once laptops like the Framework 16 come down to about $1000-1500 CAD, I really want one.
Hello Jarrod, i want to give you some suggestions. I love your videos, you are the most complete laptop reviewer for me, but i thinks it will be cool if you compare the temperatures and the noise volume on a table like you did on wifi, battery, fps games or benchmark. Because it's cool when we can compare beetween all the laptops in one single video and temperatures are also a big deal on laptops because they are usually so hot! Also can you compare the asus rog strix g18? i saw a big deal on it i wanted to see if is a good laptop. Thank you
Hey Jarrod, big fan of ur work(love it, keep it up dude!), can u review Minisforum V3 when it comes out…. I feel a 1600p 165hz 14” tablet with x86 28W AMD laptop with port that can connect to external graphics can be truly an amazing portable powerhouse and a true Surface competitor
he never reviewed the Framework 13 since it's not a gaming laptop so I doubt he will review this tablet either. He did review meteor lake for some reason, even if it has exactly the same (if not lower) gaming performance of their integrated graphics
I love the idea but I would like to wait a few generations to see what the actual support will be on providing upgrades to their designs.
I would love to see eGPU performance compared to the 13" Intel or equivalent with TB4. Great review as always!
Waow! :-D that is so cool! Do they sell in the EU?
I'd love a ~100W RTX 4070 version of the GPU expansion module, seeing as my workload relies on CUDA/OptiX, personally. Then it'd be a must buy for me. They're SO CLOSE to being a dream laptop. Add a second M.2 2280 slot, bump the RAM max up to 128GB, use a 2560x1600 OLED, and that'd be a dream laptop
the best part is that’s all possible with this laptop (well maybe not without a MB swap for some)
Such a well-thought out product that I'd honestly have no problem supporting. Not a huge gamer myself so I don't need a laptop to play Red Dead 2 or Cyberpunk on 4K, though rendering and 3D modeling/music production are another thing. But I do love the ability to CHOOSE how to build it how I want it, easily replace nearly every single part, customize parts and if I'm feeling froggy, use the available open source tools to design and develop my own custom add-ons for it. There's isn't another company making laptops that's even in the realm of what they are attempting to do. Screen upgrades would be interesting. But for what's there, that premium price is well worth it. If/when I ever need to buy a new laptop, I will highly be considering this one.
This is probably going to be my next laptop. I don't like the 14 inch one because of its display's aspect ratio. The current lenovo ideapad 5 that I have is enough for anything I need for school, so I don't really need it at the moment. Really cool stuff though! I hope they release next gen GPUs for it as well, would be awesome.
hoping they fix the price and maybe the weight issues in later gens, can def see this either being a game changer in the laptop game or a niche with a short lifespan in a couple years' time.
also hoping they add more color scheme options on top of the ones that they alr have or give you a way to plastidip the external chassis parts to truly customize the laptop LOL
I don't think the price will ever be the same as other brands, considering everything is modular and removable makes it more expensive to manufacture compared to when you glue and solder everything together from the factory.
@@robise.5886 Yeah that's pretty much the issue people care about something being modular and upgradeable but you know what's number 1? It's always going to be price.
Given the modularity, I don’t see that price coming down any time soon.
yeah, the price definitely has to come down if they want framework to be a mainstream thing.
@@pravculear How? isn't it 2k? while macbook pros are around 3k or more... with this much modularity and upgrade options I don't think they have to go cheaper.
I'm stuck between Asus ROG Strix G16 and Lenovo Legion Pro 5i. Can you help? Asus: i7-13650HX, RTX 4060, 512GB SSD, 16GB RAM Lenovo: i7-13700HX, RTX 4060, 1TB SSD, 16GB RAM. Which one should I choose? Both are similarly priced in my country. However, I've heard about Asus having a CPU heating issue. Could you compare them in terms of material quality, cooling, display, and performance? I am an architecture student, mainly using 3D programs and occasionally playing AAA games.
Yes. I was thinking about upgrading my Mobility Radeon HD 3650 with a Quadro FX 770M.
They do need to work on the fit and finish, and that trackpad is a bit small for the size of the laptop. That said, it's great that you can easily swap parts, and don't have to hunt down things like specific models with, say, the keyboard layout you want.
Still, I'm hoping they eventually come out with a model with Wacom EMR.
I would DEF pull the trigger NOW if I could be assured somehow of CPU and GPU upgrade paths and deadlines. The 7700s doesnt cut it for what im looking for atm. I have the g14 2022 with the 6800s and im looking to invest into something that will at least come with 12gb vram and perform at least 35% better, so something akin to a mobile 4080. Someone knows if they have this upgradeability traced somewhere? THX JARROD FOR ANOTHER KILLER TSHIRT i MEAN VIDEO! :P
No idea yet, but the somewhat good news is that AMD launched... or at least let us know that a 7900S or 7900M I forgot its name, exists. Which is about a mobile 4080 in performance. But now idea if Framework will make a GPU module with that. Overall I think that for people wanting highend GPUs, I think that next get will be the time. I feel like now the cooling is also not adequate for something like a 4080 (which will need like 125-150W, not just 80)
Should i get asus rog strix 4080 2024(in japan they have strix 4080 model) or lenovo legion pro 7i gen 9 4080 model.. Both have i9-14900H cpu.. Please help me i am really confused which is better and stuck for almost 1 month to chose
Pro 7i rtx 4080
@@sakshamsharma4582 Do pro 7i have loud fan noise or coil whining issue?
maybe for my next upgrade once theres a bigger used market and maybe thgird party parts. i was considering building one out parts but idk it was still a still too much.
As always enjoy seeing metal represented with the In Flames shirt. Can't help but wonder if the shirt is because the new album dropped yesterday. lol
Coincidence, but I'm seeing them live tonight!
@@JarrodsTech LUCKY! I sense a new In Flames shirt making an appearance in an upcoming video. lol
i bought a 140w anker charger that this doesnt seem to like. the gpu goes from 100w to 30w, and wont pull over 120w total. i wish i could change that so itd still go full power and just drain the battery a little
Hey Jarrod,
So im kind of new to laptop gaming, always had a console.
I currently own a ps5, but Im dying for RTS games, not to mention PS1/PS2 emulators as modern gaming doesn't excite me anymore.
I would also sometimes like to checkout games from Xbox Gamepass.
What would you recommend?
Im currently looking at the MSI Katana B13VFK and the HP Victus 16 r0976nd.
Both are 1499,-
I cannot decide 😢 Please help me out
What specs? If you can get RTX 4060 that will be play most games quite well.
@@JarrodsTech That's a quick response, thank you so much man!
The HP Specs: NVIDIA Geforce RTX 4070. 16GB RAM. i7. 16.1 inch screen. 1TB Storage.
The MSI Specs: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060. 16GB RAM. i7. 17.3 inch screen. 1024GB Storage.
Both have 144 Hertz screen
I love the idea of this. People complain about the price but tbh it’s not that much if it’s the only laptop I will need.
Right. The only reason to get a different one is if you need a larger/smaller body. Everything else can be upgraded.
Heck, you could get a new chassis and put your old internals in it!
It would be really nice a video comparing laptop cpus, many times you have to choose and just doesn't find the tests
Which cooling pad are you using?
I would definitely do the jump on this brand the day they change their screen to mini led or oled ! such a beautiful piece
I like it and kind of want to support this company, my only worry is will they be around to continue upgrading and how available are replacement parts.
Will you still be able to do all those configurations if you're using Linux 🤔
If the Framework 16 is successful, I can’t wait to see what they do to build a Framework 18.
i hope they pair up with the solid state cooling company for replaicable high powered cooling options.
Reminder - you can get similar levels of upgradability with a cheap used ThinkPad, like the T480. Same two RAM slots (up to 64GB RAM), two SSD slots, a Thunderbolt 3 port, hot-swappable batteries (24Wh internal and 24-72Wh external, which can be swapped with another charged battery without needing to shut the laptop off), similar screen upgradability, easily swappable keyboards, good I/O (no USB 2 ports). Costs just $200-250 used or refurbished.
Nah. You haven't seen how easily you can repair this.
The upgradability is tremendous with this laptop compared to the T480 (and I loved my T480).
Repair is super easy too. They have everything labeled and is easy to directly purchase. All the schematics are available to repair on your own if needed. This is next level
@@parthsane I can buy 5-7x T480 for the price of a Framework 16. Imagine how many donor parts I would have.
@@one_step_sideways fair enough.
@@one_step_sideways but if you booted cyberpunk on a t480 youd get 3fps.. nah it wouldnt even launch the menus actually.. saying this is comparable to a t480 is like comparing a toyota yaris to a toyota supra.. sure theyre both reliable toyotas but one is for an enthusiaast and one is for a commuter
not to mention alot of laptops have upgradeable ram, storage, and even batterys.. no other ones have upgradable ports, cpu or gpu
for me the price to performance is a little too steep and i feel like after 5-6 years i just want a whole new machine not 500-600$ to drop a better gpu in the same machine thats lost its novelty an has 6 years of wear and tear on it, but gotta applaud them for getting this to market and hopefully putting some pressure on the industry to atleast keep storage, ram, and batteries user swappable
@@AndrewBrowner That's where you're wrong - the T480 has the Nvidia MX150 option, which is very overclockable and undervoltable. I got my T480 with the MX150, because it's was very cheap to have a dGPU like that. And if you really want to play this overrated unoptimized mediocre game at high settings and all, you can always use an eGPU enclosure. Get one from a friend for a week or two. If you don't have friends - then you shouldn't play videogames.
I'd also like to point out that barely any new thin&light has two RAM slots. Gaming laptops - sure, they have to have them, but thin and light laptops like this year's ROG G14/G16, Dell XPS (absolute clownfest), and any Lenovo laptop have soldered RAM. You'll upgrade nothing und be happy.
I would love if they start shipping these to New Zealand, I would rather have this than anything else.
9:09.
Nice.
It's over nine thousand!
@@JarrodsTechYes, most upgradeable gaming laptop of all time!
@@JarrodsTech crushes my non existent google glass (closest thing to a scouter)
😂😂😂😂😂
Lenovo LOQ i7 RTX 3050
Or the
Asus TUF A15 i7 RTX 4050?
Need insight 🙏🙏🙏
Would this be a laptop worth buying in australia?
On the framework(and any other laptop with wifi 6e) you can upgrade to wifi 7 because wifi 6 and 7 use the same slot, and that means you could upgrade the 2022 legion 7 to wifi 7, and this is great since Lenovo hasn't made a laptop like the 2022 L7 again. It's either too expensive (legion 9, but includes everything the 2022 L7 has) or it doesn't have things like an ethernet port or a 4080/90 option(2024 L7) or it's missing features(Pro7). Let's hope Lenovo can revive the 2022 L7's quality and lower price.
Been waiting for your review on this enthusiast laptop from Framework. Honestly, I love it and it's quite janky. The only downside is it's price which for a moderate company like them is justifiable. I hope this becomes a success.
This shouldn’t be an oddity. Not for everyone, but there’s a lot of functionality that I honestly don’t need the bleeding edge on. Allows focused usage.
I’ve said it elsewhere but this feels very much like a “version 1.0” product for early adopters. Hopefully with time, they will refine the design some more and be able to offer it at a lower price point.
Hey! You're that one guy from Notebooktalk!
It totally is a 1.0 product. But most would agree that they delivered with the Framework 13. And I think they'll deliver on this one too, though it certainly is much more difficult, and, yeah, if you're on the fence, waiting it to be better is certainly the way to go.
In the wise words of the Prophet Lizzo,
IT'S ABOUT DAMN TIME!
I can't wait for this product to mature, I'm so close to getting one myself for work. I wish that the GPU addon fit the 13-14in model because 17 is too big a laptop for me :( I also really REALLY want a touch screen... with a two-in-one option pretty please ;A;
there should be universal module parts for laptops. you can resurrect an older gaming laptop with an old high end cpu by installing a better gpu
Have you looked at the prices to upgrade? It is £1100 in the UK for last year's Intel 13 gen! I am certain you can get a cheap 13 Gen laptop for that with good specs, an OLED display and brand new and shiny.
@@andyH_England and desktop parts are cheap? plus they can price it that high because it is "unique" but when it's common then it won't be far from their desktop counter parts
@@andyH_England In the context of using an old laptop (which will certainly be VERY relevant for Framework in 3+ years) the idea is to NOT get the latest tech/gen, because it's always the worst price/performance. Upgrading to that 13th gen (which for Framework still basically the latest gen, MTL just appeared) in 3 years, possiblity even 2nd hand, will be much cheaper.
I would add two things: undervolting and extra software (like Lenovo Legion Toolkit or Asus equivalent) for better performance.
Module support is the future of repair and technical upgrade.
Can you tell something about DPC latency of this laptop?
Did you watch the video? He says it's excellent.
Why would you like to remove the numpad if you can fit it?
Many people would just choose not to have one at all I imagine.
First time that i order such expensive piece of tech ... that feels a bit wrong because i usually buy the best price to performances stuff, but that's a new thing and i really hope it will force other brands to do similar laptops.
Gracias por la pista de audio español 🙏
I wonder if Framework will adopt the new snapdragon chips. I cant wait for those. I've been on mac because of good performance and battery life. Cant wait to get back to windows.
Super smart design for fixing 👌
tryna jump in the hype since i built a Dell XPS 15 9530 from scratch for 1000 flat. Board was 500. Rest was cheap parts as low as 20
I don't know if this is possible. However, I think it'd be cool if someone took a Frameworks 16" mainboard, and the 16" gpu expansion and made a super slim and compact console like case. Again, I lack the skills and knowledge to make this a reality. But it'd be pretty fun to have a semi custom PC in a slim console form factor.
Cooler Master collaborated with Framework to make just such a case for the Framework 13, so one for the Framework 16 seems reasonable.
Regarding the upgradeability score: it's so upgradeable that you can have your own customised Theseus' laptop.
When I saw this on Hardware Canucks, I immediately came to your channel (hoping) for a more in-depth review of the laptop.
the only program to control the gpu for this laptop is the amd tuning utility if you have the amd gpu
I have High Hope on this brand
I'll need a 2 in 1 hinge with a 240hz 1100nit mini led display. That's what my current x16 with a 13900h and 140w 4070 has. Cannot go without the movile gaming experience thia good, especially with bluestacks.
Jarrod!, take an ear at "Rise to Fall", totally missed out their new album "The fifth dimension", from June 2023, probably the very best Melodeath band we have in Spain. Enjoy it!