Descent Legends of the Dark Review - Is It a Board game? Or a Video Game? or something more?
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
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With a game without an app you aren’t doing anything more on the terrain than you are in this. The app takes care of the DM activities and the tracking that would have been done on cards. So instead of looking from the map to cards and moving tokens around. You are looking from the map to a screen and pushing buttons.
To each their own my friend
So a video game…some of us like the card stock and seeing things play out on the table top with our friends.
The app is really useful when you play with non veteran player. As the "DM" it's easier to manage the table.
However I still fear that once they give up on the app, well, the game will be dead.
Yes and no. It is true that the complains about being able to use graph terrain and a pen would hold true for any other miniature game (I did play Warhammer quest with custom built paper standees), the difference is that you have to duplicate the moves from the terrain to the app, which might give a strong incentive not to use the terrain at all (it would be easier with another perspective).
That said, there are really few turn based dungeon crawlers on PC with a party too (most either have real time exploration and TB combat, or single character).
I’m right there with you, it’s a $150 app game. I’ve been gaming for over 8 years now and buying games for minis isn’t a factor anymore (I’ve got 100s). One last thing, the physical boards art are bland and have little to no creativity.
Very true sir!!
Thanks for the Shout out buddy!!! I'm sure you're aware Miniature Market already sold out! September 8th Rob 8.0 😉
it took 6 days and they backed off there stock on this smoke and mirrors my friend
As of this writing if you remove all the 1 ratings in BGG the rating goes up to 8.4. If you remove the 1 and 10 ratings the rating would go up to 6.8.
I guess an app doesn’t break my immersion as much as referencing cards and books. I hate missing fiddley rules because they’re buried on page 68 of a poorly written and laid out rule book. Having an app manage that aspect is great and I don’t think you highlighted that well. Clicking on the water or spike underlay and having its effect immediately available or having the app remind you of an after attack affect is fantastic. Also your point about drawing the terrain vs. laying it out, that would be true for descent 2 as well. All you’re using terrain for in general is to know where your character is in relation to other pieces in the game. You could draw those instead of laying out all of the tiles then as well. I guess it truly comes down to what “breaks your immersion” and for me, this app does not. Keep up the great work and get some more Malifaux on the table. Wish we were a little closer as I’d come play some Faux!
Agreed. We're playing Middara right now as well and I absolutely LOVE that game, but I am taken out of that game a lot more than Descent when I have to open up the rule book, or the Diagram book, or the massive tome of a Story Book, or read the enemy AI card. Again, great game and I don't want it to change, but every now and then having an app take care of that is a breath of fresh air!
for me it does......but neither of us are wrong here
I just want to point out, that in Decent 2e, using the app was optional. I did play with the app solo multiple times, but over 80% was 1 v many with my regular gaming group. The difference here is you have one option -- use the app or do not play at all.
@@s.spikoski5120 This +1,000,000. Same here. And then the whole thing ground to a halt for us the other night when I *lost* the secret decoder lol. It was 2 pages back in the story book, but somehow managed *not* to fall out when I picked it up and shook it 10 minutes earlier. :) We're loving Middara, but we've spent a lot of time with the rule book. LOTS of important items are missing from the index, or you have to figure out the right way of searching for it, or remember what page it was on.
A lot of people have been trying to come to terms with how much of a castrated boardgame experience this is, but you are the only content creator I've seen so far that had the brilliant idea of simply going handheld on the camera to show you exactly what you are doing and how pointless the "board-game part" of this product is. Kudos! Sad for Descent though:S
Very true they should have just called it something else
Great review Rob, thanks for posting. I have Descent v.1 plus all expansions and I love it. This is definitely not for me. The focus should be on the board tiles, miniatures and cards. If I want a screen involved I'll just play something on my console.
Nice I just got hades today it’s pretty good
I love to role dice and draw cards. Don't want electric devices while playing boardgames. And during a shutdown I continue playing :-). Agree totaly with you. For example: although I posess a kindle (for journeys) I prefer reading books and turn the pages.
Same here! and its not a bad thing if people like it the other way
I haven't finished this video yet, but I had to pause it at the 8minute mark because I just don't agree with any of the points you're making right now. Everything you're saying about this game you could say about any dungeon crawler board game. Minis? Don't need them use standees! Tiles? Don't need it just draw a map! Terrain pieces? Don't need them just use a banana peel! I 100% understand (but don't agree) not liking apps in board games, but I really do feel like this game in particular fantastically blends app integration with board game mechanics. Your cards and abilities are not represented in the app. Your dice rolls are not represented in the app. The position of your character and the enemies are not represented in the app. The app handles math, setup, and story elements, the latter of which is not much different than having to dig through a story book. I'm sorry if I should have finished the video before commenting because you did say at the beginning that you like some things about this game (and you did play for 20 hours so it can't be awful, right?) but I just felt the need to express my opinion. Thanks as always, Rob!
Watch the video
Does every other DC rely this heavily on a app for gameplay?
@@timesup5105 Nope! And guess what? You can go play any of the millions of DCs out there that don't have an app. seriously, there's like 5 app based dungeon crawlers in the world and countless others without any.
@@seahawk8601 I finished the video and respect your opinion, but disagree with a lot of it. That's okay! Not every game is for every person. I'm glad you're not just blindly hating the game like a lot of people on BGG!
@@s.spikoski5120 not at all i really think this is for some people and not for others i am kind of in the middle
Btw Rob... this review was one of your best! ! All your points were well said! Great job! 👍
took a lot of time and still think i missed my point to an degree
I think you make an excellent point the game would have been best served by putting a ruleset together that doesn't require an app, then let each person decide how they want to play.
i agree!!
I never get the „you do not need the components, you can just draw it on paper“ arguement.
I have never seen someone who played the Warhammer tabletop with paper cutouts instead of miniatures, which you totally could so. But there is more to a game than just the gameplay.
If you do not care about the miniature and terrain I get it. But then you are not in the target group.
I haven‘t played the game yet, still in box, but my previous experience with app games from FFG were just good, so I am looking forward to it.
I still appreciate the work you out into it and your opinion.
again people misunderstood what i mean.....and i cleared it up in other videos but you were nice how you handled this so i will reply to you......i love the terrain period but my problem is the focus is more on the app where the terrain is as well the only thing i need the terrain for is to move my figure so it is overkill to me when the heart of the game is the app .....to which does a great job but i am an old school guy that likes to be focus on one area this has you bouncing back and forth and for me....and i do mean ME its too much for me........i rather focus on the app and make my moves on paper so i can stay focused.....just how i feel and is not a big deal but with that said i do not think anyone should just download the app and cheat the hard work FFG did
i just wish they had rules to just play on the beautiful board included two for the price of one
Yeah. I’m, so far, really loving this game. My first love is video games then board games so merging the best of both is a match made perfect for me.
As long as it works for you great
I feel Destinies is essentially simplified version of the same app-gameplay (select interaction, roll dice and and tell the app how many successes). And for me feels like an improvement, a faster, simpler version. Even the board feels more meaningful as it's "the world map" also, you look at it to figure out what to do next. I don't even always bother finding the correct mini, it really doesn't matter which "town folk" you got. But it's fast and seamless. Of course that tries to be more a story driven campaign and this a "tactical dungeon fighter" or something, so very different games. But the app part is quite identical and I think Destinies is a better match (at least for what it tries to do at what pricepoint).
I agree well said
This is exactly how I felt when they came out with the app for mansions of madness! I kept thinking what's the point of the board and the mini's I was just looking at the app for everything. I don't mind apps in game if it helps or supplements, but this for me is too much for exactly the reasons you outlined. Thank you for your time spent reviewing this!
Thank you so much
That's why I haven't bought this game, because I have MoM, and I thought this will most probably be the same, maybe even worse. And now I know I was right. Too much in the app.
Whats up my old Pal! I played this game the other night off of Steam and had some fun with it. Not going to buy the game its not great but if gaming group wants to play I can break out some maps and recreate it on the table. Got 2 3D printers and loads of dungeons and terrain already. I'd say Pretty good game for free lol.
Lol
Super accurate review, right all along. I see design wise what they were shooting for, more terrain no gm etc. Regardless when I think of the app I see Bill Engvall saying "Here's your sign" looking at Golem Arcanum. Fads come and and go, I'll see in five years what Descent 4th ed looks like.
i still think they did a good job
I think it’s pretty telling that Golem Arcana is still the one and only example that every app-naysayer have of a game that isn’t supported anymore.
It's definitely a bummer and it could totally happen with an iOS device. I think it's going to be far less likely to happen on Steam or even Android, though. If Fantasy Flight goes under you'll still easily be able to run the app on Steam or an Android device. As much as I hate to say it, though, I'm not really concerned about whether or not I'll still be able to play this particular game in 10 years. There are just too many games out there for me to be really upset about 1 not working.
Once you go into video game territory, you are in video game territory. And in it, there are tons of discontinued games. You can google it - discontinued games from EA, square, etc. Removed from steam and all.
i really liked that game
Yeah and any app you can basically back up and have it forever. It’s not like an EA live service game.
You could...its a mess.
This device runs this version of OS can run these apps.
This device is jailbroken and can run these , but not those.
This device is jailbroken and no longer runs off battery, and will run these things only.
This software was maximized for 800x600, and today it is running an emu on a 4K screen and is either highly pixelated or runs at 3x3 inches on your screen.
This software needs a key that needed verification from an online server that is now dead, and so if its uninstalled it will never again re-install. The list goes on and on to what needs to be done to preserve these apps and software and other digital material.
My love for board games developed from having dealt with this software preservation issue.
But if you are willing to do it, ya you could.
16:36 - Where the heck did you pull the sneaker out of ? ! ! :-D :-D
I did not see it coming and it made me laugh. :-)
Lol thanks
Review starts at 5:41
Thank you for that
I totally agree with your opinion :) One thing I want to add is that I think these app games work better when playing with a group of friends who don’t usually play board game. It’s much easier to explain and keep track of the rules, since the app does almost everything. And if you have a dedicated guy controlling the app and reading all the flavor text(kinda of like a DM role), it won’t break the board game immersion as much as playing it solo. And yes, we do use a dongle to display the app on tv :)
i can see this no one is wrong here
I’m going to give this game a shot. Your comments are very legitimate. However, from my side of things I have a nine-year-old boy that I would very much like to get into dungeon crawlers and this seems the best gateway type of game. I am hoping this will be the beginning of a new chapter in our relationship.
I really think you should give this a go!!! Don’t listen to an opinion of some dumb old man with a CZcams channel (me) there are people who love it and people who don’t but if this can be a gateway for you and your son ….hell ffg has done there job and done it well! Let me know how it turns out!!
@@seahawk8601 your not an old man!!! Lol. I’ll let you know how it goes.
I play lotr jime with my two kids under 10 and boy oh boy does the app help. Usually playing with kids you are the rules, DM, player aid, and coach. The app saves me and my voice some stress.
Really glad I bought the new Heroquest over this game. I have a bunch of Descent stuff from 1st and 2nd edition which will probably just start getting used for D&D.
Great idea
Good, Honest review
Matches what Tom said about it.
Joel said he won't review it
I'm still waiting to see if Michael King touches this
I hope mike takes a crack at it he is very honest
@@seahawk8601 I'm going to ask him!
My first thought when I saw the descent vids popping up was "oh thats cool I've heard descent is a good franchise". This is why I like your channel, objective opinions on a game and turns out it sounds like something I would not care for. Saved me some dough thank you.
Thank you
I’ve seen some of your videos before but today after watching this video I just became a subscriber ASAP! Right there with you 7 years old when I got Pong and Amiga computes from 500, 2000…! I wished I had seen your video before I spent $99 on the game… ;)
Thank you so much my friend!!!
Wish you talked more about the combat mechanics and what you liked or didn’t since that’s mostly what your doing in dungeon crawls. Otherwise good review. Def convinced me not to waste my money.
i thought other channels did this better than i could and did not want to rehash stuff
You're 100% spot on. Honestly it seems as though they created an app and then thought that they wouldn't be able to sell just an app so they bundled it with physical pieces that are pointless. Or they just didn't think they could sell an app for as much money as they could a "board game"
thank you
Thanks for the review Rob. Really appreciated the honesty and concerns you raised there. I am a supporter of hybrid experiences as long as the focus is on the board game side. I will try and see how this game plays myself, i received my copy recently. However one thing i have notice i think it should be mentioned, it has incredibly good miniature quality. GW grade hard plastic miniatures that are NOT on sprue, they are already built. I think those miniatures justify the price especially for those of us spending so much on kickstarters for mediocre miniatures
i agree with you they are very nice!!!
Great review mate thanks so much 😊
No problem 👍
Have to agree with your take. Seemed very fair and balanced
I was going to say I could use some form of assistance from an app to remember all the modifiers in Shadows of Brimstone and keep tally of XP and gold lol
My only experience of using an app was a simple programme to substitute the GM in Hero Quest so I could play it solo
It was distracting from the board. IIRC I kept moving the characters on the laptop rather on the board! lol
i agree
Thanks for the video! Couldn´t agree more!
Thank you my brother!!
I don’t mind apps IF it’s not the focus. I prefer an app for storytelling parts of a campaign. Voice acting, choice making, surprise moments, random map/monster/furniture placements. I like an app to play as a dungeon master for solo play, or for sound effect texture so that I don’t need to read pages of dialogue and story to my kids. But I noticed with this game there is no need for the board game components. Everything is done on the app, the board game is redundant.
"with this game there is no need for the board game components. Everything is done on the app, the board game is redundant." that is 100% not true. I'd suggest watching an actual playthrough before making a claim like that. Or don't! No one needs to convince you to like a particular game.
there is no wrong answer as far as this game i can see both sides
Firstly Good to see you looking better and more refreshed after the last 6 months, hope your family and arm are doing well.
I play games for the tactile and social and when solo the immersion plus tactile , I have done the digital world in spades and decided I enjoy the tabletop and despite a huge backlog of painting the minis.
I am not against apps for tracking between sessions or even to assist. The solo apps for Descent and Imperial Assault are ok not too intrusive because the main focus is on character boards and the situation map. Journey's to middle earth for me is the limit.
I watched some playthroughs of Legends of the Dark and I found it soulless, the app narrative sounded like it was written by a eight year old. Some of the mechanics look cool but the character mechanics for CoD, Tainted Grail are great, love to see them translated to skirmish games. To me Sword and Sorcery has much better story and mechanics.
More digital stuff for Descent 2 may have drawn me in but having just backed CoD (core + SG and Apocalypse SG) I am glad that tis is just meh.
I am playtesting for Lasting tales and it hasn't got innovative mechanics but it plus Battlesystems terrain and modular realms for dungeons together with an AI GM is far more fun than this game looks.
I also feel buying Arydia will give me far more game, innovative mechanics and also bring some gamers I know into the TTRPG world.
PS Look at Modular Realms for quick alternative to drawing dungeons on the fly -
czcams.com/video/Aw6fBkGvUCw/video.html
www.kickstarter.com/projects/modularrealms/modular-realms-relaunch?ref=user_menu
your very right here i can see this and thank you!!
I agree with what you said Rob. My main issue with the app is that I just don't see it being a great multi-player experience. I could imagine a solo game being okay, assuming you like the app. However, in a regular board game, everyone has an equal visual on the game. For Descent, people at the other end of the table from whoever happens to have the ipad won't be able to see what's going on. This means players will have a different experience depending on where they're sitting. I suppose you could attach it to a giant screen, but how many people happen to have a large tv hanging next to their gaming table? I sure don't.
it works for some and for some not so much
Console gamer, turned PC gamer (90s), got broke on PCs, back to consoles and now have money and back to PCs since PS4 got old. Anyway I was on the fence about this game. I have a huge wall of games, not as many as you! I agree with you about immersion using the app. Seems to take away from the “sticks and bricks” and I agree why bother with the terrain and 3D models. I already have 200+ video games that I still haven’t finished. I don’t need another one :-)
I forgot I wanted to say you nailed it on the head when you said give gamers a choice between using an app or not. Like Descent 2 did.
thank you sir!!!
I've been waiting for your review :) I have two questions - I wonder how hard would it be to substitute/proxy the physical elements (ie use other figures, DIY board parts, print cards, or 3D print stuff) and then play with the app? Doesn't this pose a risk to FFG? 2nd question - is it any good to play as a group of 3 or more - I've seen positive comments on Solo play but concerns over group play. How does it play if there is a group - is the crafting element awkward?
I feel it is a good solo game not a multiplayer experience
I agree with your review. But I hope that the people that bought it like it.
I sooooooo agree with that
Haters mostly fans of old game. Fans of new titles are supported by FF or.have received free promo copies. Fantastic insight into this. Must admit, I haven’t opened my yet, I haven’t felt like breaking the plastic wrap. Top review.
Thank you my friend!
I think you nailed it Rob. This could have been sold as a small $30 box with a deck of cards and dice paired with the app. The monsters and heros tracked on the app. THAT would have been innovative.
thank you
If your going to go that far just put the character sheets and dice randomizer on the app and make it a 15$ app game
@@vtp2199 You know what you're right. Just make Descent: The Video Game. Id buy that
As an FYI you can distill game mechanisms to numbers, probability, spreadsheets etc on paper. It’s how designers often test game mechanisms and balance. You could take GW games and put units on paper and a spreadsheet to create probability of dice, rules are online. Viola. Warhammer 40k is free now. This is incredibly easy to do and yet people don’t do this. There are reasons people create terrain and love miniatures.
I watched a playthrough of it (sped up a bit) and man was it a complete slog to get through what seemed like a smallish scenario. The amount that was accomplished for the amount of time it took seemed quite disproportionate. As I suspected, which the playthrough confirmed, the app is 90%+ of the game. The moving the miniatures and rolling the dice, and fiddling with cards seems completely extraneous and almost an unnecessary exercise. Some will like it, I'm sure, but definitely not for me.
and that is my point some will and some won't im middle of the road
I noticed that during the play through too, you said it perfectly. And yet the app is supposed to reduce that overhead and maximize accomplishment for the time spent! Makes you wonder, if it doesn’t succeed at that, okay maybe they just failed, or does it have another purpose 🤔
It just looks like a gimmick to me. Just extraneous flashy bs. Either just make it a tablet app game or make it just a boardgame....or just make two separate game versions. Lol
Most honest and informative review yet. Thanks Rob..this game is not for me at the current price tag.
Maybe on the 2nd hand market after someone else has played it and moved on.
Thank you
About the discussion if good quality miniatures and terrain are needed on this game, actually many boardgames with fancy component could be played using only a pencil, paper and some dice. But for many players the nice components are really important and part of the fun and experience. Now, if this game worth $175, that's another discussion...
I agree but my point for this was if it’s on the app and the focus is on the app then the over the top stuff is not need cause it is not the main focus
Well said Rob, I wholeheartedly agree with everything.
Being immersed in a rpg is the whole point of the roleplay aspect of it.
I cannot imagine playing Gloomhaven and then between town and before doing battle constantly having to deal with an app to pull me out and make sure and check everything is done what an app tells you too.
Don't get me wrong, Gloomhaven has apps for the phone or PC but they are just there to help if you have a hard time keeping track or cutdown some downtime from cards and such.
But you do not have to use any of it to still play and enjoy the game in it's rawest form.
Great job thank you
So what if app assisted board games removed more of the graphical interaction (point and click) and only told you where to put stuff, but to continue you and the app have to interact via voice like Alexa? Almost like you were talking to a DM. Would that immerse more into the board game? Do you think that would be a better direction to go with these app assisted games? I would think if you had more intelligent voice interaction, you could focus more on the board as you adventure through the scenario.
Fantastic idea…..I really like that!!! Great job!
I own just about everything for Descent 1 and do own everything for Descent 2. I really like them both, but something has kept me from buying this one. I think you identified the issue. While apps can be amazing for handling varying stats, card decks, random events, complex combat, etc., I think they may have moved too much to the app this time. I may still end up buying it, but I’d probably just play it solo. If they hadn’t drawn us in with the Descent name, we might have a completely different impression. Nice video Rob. 👍
Thank you sir
Great honest review Rob.👍
Love your channel.
Greetings from Ireland.
Cheers mate!!!
I've played the first three missions and to me it isnt any more app than descent 2d, imperial assault or mansions of madness (which I played all extensively). To me this is improved and amazing!
thats great you feel that way!!!!
@@seahawk8601 yea. In the end it's just a game! People getting mad at viewpoints one way or the other is plain silly
@@eddieharr glad you like it. We have our 4th game tonight. I am already looking forward to expansions.
I agree
Nice
Rob agree with you on the Comics. Unfortunately the future is going to be online for comics
I know
Thank you, 100 % agree with you. I think the same about this game. I hoped it would be great, but it is only OK.
some ;people like it and that ok too
I think you knocked this out of the park. Looks like you really only need the cards and the player mats and the app. Thanks for the insight Rob.
thank you
Rob, thanks for the video. I bought this game on impulse. I have put together the terrain but haven’t played it yet. I think you are spot on about the terrain. I suspect some people will even upgrade the terrain with custom 3D printed terrain. I’m looking forward to try the game myself. Keep your videos coming
i hope this is good for you and you find it great!!!
Great review man
Thank you my friend
Thumbs up Rob! I totally agree with you. Paying that much money better put some well produced items in my hand. The handling of components is so part of the experience of board gaming. An app to supplement a game ... okay, but when it is the game itself.... hard pass. Thanks for doing this video!
No problem
Fine review, thank!
thank you!
Hi Rob. Good points.
My Dream is to create the most immersive board game experience to date. I do have my criterias. For exemple I like when all components are where they are supposed to be. Nothing should be left somewhere on the table. That's one.
I wonder, for you personally, what do you consider and feel to be the most immersive, any title that you could think of, I would really like to know.
Much love. You already know I love what you do. Cheers.
for me its warhammer quest 95
Descent: Legends in the App
lol
Same focus issue as Mansions of Madness 2, sadly.
Yep
Great video!
I wasn't going to get the game, but watched playthroughs and jumped in. I"m loving the hell out of it. If you don't like it, fine. If you do, that's great. Play what makes you happy. And you have tons of options (Gloomhaven, Sword & Sorcery, Brimstone, Imperial Assault, etc.).
I agree with a lot of your points and do have issues with this game. It's not great, but I do enjoy it a lot. I play it 100% solo and no way I would play this with a group. We'd be passing around the app and one person would have to read all that text. But as a solo game, I enjoy it a lot.
i really am happy you love this .....and like i said i want it to do fantastic...it is just not for me right now
This game is exactly what I wanted after playing a ton of Descent 2E w/ the Road to Legend app. My game group much prefers the fully coop nature of the app play. The only real complaint I have so far is that the heavy dialogue bits are a bit odd for group play. I wish they were all voiced to help with that.
But gameplay wise, i like it. I havent finished a full playthrough and we have yet to see what sort of expansion campaigns they add into the app, so i cant speak to price yet, but i am very much enjoying my time with it.
Which is great to hear I’m glad you like it!!
I am happy you like it and agree with everything you said!
@@seahawk8601 out of curiosity, how do you feel about Mansions of Madness and Journeys in Middle Earth (if youve played them).
Curious if you could play through the game completely on the app and just the player board and dice? What would be lost if you didn't use the miniatures and terrain?
I’m just over this game on to other things
I really hear you Rob. I'm also a PC gamer besides playing boardgames. So why shouldn't I just play Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition or Baldur's Gate 2 or Divinity Original Sin 2 on my PC? Somebody please explain it to me?
Great point
I get having issues with using the app. I guess personally, I find that more often than not they do enhance the experience, especially when the physical components were built with the apps in mind. But yeah, there does come a point when you have to ask "why even make this a board game, just make it a video game". I still believe that Legends in the Dark still retains more on the "board game" side of things. It's mostly an advancement of the Journeys in Middle Earth, Mansion of Madness and even the Descent; Road to Legend app. Taking them all to their next logical step (and you can see a lot of the influences from the JiME app in this app). That being said, the point you made about how these apps can severely limit the longevity of a game, especially once the publisher abandons them and technology continues it's unrelenting march forward, is a very valid one. We have already seen this with a couple of FFG's own apps, such as the Arkham Horror companion app and the Warhammer Fantasy 3e RPG dice roller app which both were rendered unusable when iOS made the switch to only allowing 64 bit apps and FFG neglected to update them to accommodate these changes.
Other than the app issues, I am glad to hear that you aren't turned off by the art. For myself and many others, this was a major negative of the game as we were left scratching our heads as to why FFG would decide to break from the established Terrinoth art style of previous games which was quite serviceable. I dunno, maybe it will grown on me over time.....
Well done I agree
Correct me if I’m wrong but both those games you mentioned that have apps are still playable without the app.
Great honest review Rob! I like how you mentioned the 10s and 1s on BGG. The game is definitely not perfect, but it's also not terrible. There are some new accounts made in the last two weeks just to try to influence the rating which is insane. Mansions of Madness and JiME used the app brilliantly without overpowering the physical aspect, but for Legends of the Dark it tips that balance. The app is well done but it the end it might as well be a video game cause the physical pieces are mostly eye candy. The characters are tropes and the story is generic, and unless you haven't played or seen any fantasy adventure game or story it's nothing new. Thanks for being unbiased and addressing all the points!
thank you so much!!
It's not even for sale here in europe yet, so I don't have to make the call yet. I don't see the hurry, maybe I'll just wait and see if they announce the second act or if that get canceled. I can see many game stores having a problem with the size of this box. So if it dosen't sell well, I think they'll stop taking it in because of the size. They can probably have 3-4 other games in it's space that might sell better.
watch a lot of reviews and make your own option
I'm asking myself: How could they have done this game without the app? Could it have been done at all or was this kind of app necesseray?
So, what does the app do?
1- Tells the story
2- Present the map layout, including enemies, terrain, furnitures, others
3- Takes care of combat damage, keeps tracks of it as well as enemies weaknesses, etc.
4- Keeps tracks of other things like gold, gear, etc.
For #1 and #2, this could have been done with a book: Go to page # when you interact with the tree, etc. But we have to agree that it is a lot faster and easier (and cheaper) with an app. So ok.
For #3, it could have been done like many other games with physical components: with large enemy cards and little drop of blood for wounds, like in gloomhaven for exemple. But I guess the weakness system needs the app to be "hidden" and found out while fighting, but is it necesseray though?
For #4, can be tracked on a piece of paper like any other game and some small cards to represent items/gear.
It is true, the app makes all these things easier to track and do. So, if it is easier, why do we feel like it is not for the best? The answer, for me, is that it takes away the tactile experience we are looking for in board games, tracking stuff with a piece of paper, using your head to calculate how much damage you did, so on and so forth.
So, at what point is it too much app? Should #1 and #2 be with the app (like the app for descent 2nd) and the rest be tracked with physical components? I think that would be the right amount.
As for the need for 3D terrain and the fact that when the app dies so does the game, those are different topics and I have already said enough :P
Video games do the same thing it really is subjective if it works for you great if not that’s okay too
It’s all subjective
Currently I'm feeling that this game, is the expensive elephant on my shelf.
It is what it is
@@seahawk8601 Indeed it is.
Wow Rob what can I say...you said it all my friend. I agree, man I hope more game co. Don't go app only board games. It seems more like 80% app. With this game. Plus the app seems like it would really slow the game down a lot. Just my thoughts.
thank you so much!!
Great review Rob. This is an easy pass for me, with all the great video games and board games out there, I don't see why I would need this hybrid.
I don’t think it is horrible but it is not descent
Spot on Rob! It´s plain to see this game is not for us that came into the hobby via Warhammer Quest, Talisman, or the old TSR stuff. It´s not for the ones that remember 1st edition, that tried to emulate a role playing dungeon crawl (or a campaign with Road to Legend). It´s for the people that only played video games. And those have no patience and see no point in paying this kind of money. Shadows of Brimstone is still the best.
Thank you
What's card discard tray and where you get from? I like it!
I have no idea
Great review. Any designer or publisher considering an app in their board game should watch this review. What a riot to see you drawing on your dungeon grid! XD
thank you sir!!
It seems any playthrough with multiple players would have fallen flat no matter who did a playthrough. This seems to shine as a solo game where the app is interacting as a video game.
I agree
Thanks for the video! I do wish more folks had spoken out earlier about giving the game a chance. People have seemed determined to hate this game from day one so it's hard to take anyone seriously about it at this point. I'll hopefully get a chance to try this game at some point but I think that historically this will show as a blight on us as a community.
It certainly seems that way. Rob does state people may love the game so I'd advise you watch some actual gameplay (Robs Gaming Table) and make up your own mind on this one.
There is little point trying to change anyone's mind with this one as it's already made up so any opinion that aligns with this is apparently True/Accurate and honest.,, such and such reviewer said "blah blah" and it's constantly repeated as though it's the only opinion.
I'll hold my hands up and admit I was totally wrong to dismiss this game because it didn't fit into my idea of what board gaming should be according to me and to my shame I listened to people who agreed with my baseless opinion. Lesson learned.
i agree rocket
i think you have to watch a lot to understand what this is and give it a chance
I haven't gotten too far into the video yet but wanted to comment on two early things.
The idea that a person can only have one 10 rated game is ridiculous which is what your definition of "10 means there is no other better game in the world" would mean. I've never run into a person who thought that's what 10 would mean in any situation. I get that expecting people to adhere to any sites definitions of what scores mean is likely never going to happen and BGG's secondary qualifiers on what their scores mean are also ridiculous. "never will turn down a game and expect that to never change" ?? But come on people can love 2 games pretty much equally for different reasons or situations.
The point about apps not being updated to work with a current OS is valid but to FFG credit they do release their apps as windows programs on Steam which I would suspect would prolong the life well beyond that of mobile devices and their many OS updates.
I think this game will be fine it’s just not for me right now
Which modern day dungeon crawler would you play over this solo? This seems like a game where the app really helps out a solo gamer where you can viably play 3 handed without losing your mind (like Gloomhaven). But curious what dungeon crawler has captured your time.
Warhammer quest 95
This looks fine if FFG wants to sell it to me as a mobile game for $7.99. I however question the sense of people who want to pay $175 to buy it as a board game instead.
i think if it backed off the app a bit it would have been fine
Good morning, Rob. This is a great video. I agreed with everything you said about Descent Legends of the Dark. I was debating on whether to buy the game or not, but after watching this video, I decided not to. Who knows, maybe I will change my decision later on down the road, but for now, I'm not going to purchase the game. You and I see eye to eye on this game and I pretty much graded it the same way you did. I watched the playthrough videos of this game and the app pretty much controlled most of the game. I'm like you, I want to play the boardgame not play mainly a video with very little boardgaming. Yes, the 3D props of the game are cool, I'll give it that much. But, I think they should've used cards for where they used the app, such as interacting with a tree, or finding treasures, etc.. So, that's my take on it. Thanks for your input, Rob. I enjoyed the videos and look forward to seeing more.
This means a lot thank you!!!
@@seahawk8601 You got it. Again, thank you.
Sold my first edition think I'll find one again
nice!!
I understand and kind of agree, but the app do for me all the job that I really hate to do when playing dungeons crawler, including gloomhaven, man I just hate to do all the calculation every single time when I attack or defend, and the book keeping of all status and conditions tokens from enenmies, characters and terrain is hard, and this is a problem for me that have all dungeon crawlers, so the app for me is the best solution right now. Oh and the other thing that the app do for me is the customization of some aspects of the characters and weapons, I love it, and the town services, inventory and gold management, really love this too, and the enemy AI the app take care of that too, all the things I hate to do, the app take care for me. Now the focus on the app rather than the table, may be a problem.
Well said
You totally make sense. It is pretty much app driven game.
It really is
Thank you for this great review. I liked lord of the rings but here the app is too much... I was hesitating but 160e is way too much for this decorative boardgame. I really like the way you explain your point of view!
You’re welcome 😊 thank you so much!
Is looking in a book for outcomes so much better than having an app tell you?
Yes
That's your opinion and I respect that. But for me, it's a win and i just love this game. all the app is doing is replace the need of a DM
Like I said it’s not for me no big deal if it makes you happy good for you! That’s all that matters
But Rob, your argument of not needing a board or terrain can be said for almost every other board game. If a game simply gives you a scenario book for you to setup the board, you can also just trace draw it straight from the book onto that plexiglass table of yours too. Book, app, what's the difference? When you go into this with your mind already set on doubting app-driven game, your decisions are already made by that influence before you've even touched it. All I can see with all the negativity from everyone is that they don't want an app, they just want a book or a deck of cards for narration and interaction (just like Arkham Horror 3rd Edition). Why is that? Why is there such a strong opinion on technology that improves on the quality of life?
you have your opinion I have my opinion who cares at this point? it doesn’t mean anything people asked for it I gave it now I’m over it
Hi Rob
Have you only played this game on your own?
No
Thanks, Rob for the review. I think you did a good job of presenting the game as it is with the facts and not emotions.
I believe you are spot on that they should have used a different name. That would have been less controversial but maybe it is the controversy that sells -- for example like in the comic book world when they kill a superhero like Superman to get people mad and then bring him back in the next few issues.
To your point about not needing the terrain, my brother and I used our Descent 1e and 2e terrain and miniatures and downloaded the app from Steam to play it without spending the $180 for the game just to try it out. The rules manual is also a free download but we hardly needed that. We played it ourselves and it was enough to say neither of us would be spending the money and any more time on this game. Those who may be still interested, they could do the same and try the game before spending any money. Of course, any miniatures can be used as a proxy.
You were indifferent to the art, but I still do not like it and there is far better art like in Tenarus. The art, as well as the gameplay combined, is what gets me into a game and this does not have enough of either to make me want it.
My feelings about the game have not changed -- meaning, not the game I wanted. I just hope the people who do buy it feel the money is worth it.
how did you play it without any of the cards, character boards, or proper dice? Seems like a pretty bad way to play it.
Thank you
@@s.spikoski5120 First of all, the intent was to see how it would play, not to play the entire campaign. There are plenty of reviews with pictures you can capture of the character boards and the starting cards. The rulebook has other images as well as information and even FFG has some images. We simply took the stats and used a form in Microsoft Word. As for the dice, there are apps you can use that you replicate the dice faces and will handle the dice rolls. Really, all of this was not to hard as way to see if you want the game. I would not try to do this for an entire game. However, given many who reviewed it did not go past the first chapter or so of the game, this was enough to allow me to explore how the game would work.
I have played plenty "choose your adventure" type of games, solo RPGa or community created games that are rough, this was no big deal in comparison. Enough to give you a teste and enough for me to get an better understanding of some of the reviews and make up my own opinon without spending $180.
Interesting perspective on this one. I suspect I will feel similar. A big screen would help share the app content to all players. The game is what it is and as a diverse gaming community it will delight some and frustrate others. That's just how it is and it's fine.
I agree
Nice write up Rob. It comes down to how much of the game and the management of it do you want in an app vs controlling it all via the Boardgame itself. These Hybrid solutions are great to the extent that they give people different options around how they want to play a boardgame. It offers the option of allowing apps to handle the cumbersome overhead that otherwise comes with many Boardgame based Dungeon crawls. Personally, I don't mind their inclusion to some extent and have enjoyed games like Descent 2.0 with the app (it had its issues though... felt more like a race than a dungeon crawling adventure...) Personally, for me when a boardgame gets way too cumbersome with complex Rules and combat mechanics, having to control countless tokens, cards, keeping track of which way the wind is blowing, etc, etc (again this is subjective to the individual…) I will no longer enjoy the boardgame experience and will play a video game equivalent instead, and again conversely if the app takes away too much of the boardgame experience (i.e.: I am spending more time on the app than with the boardgame itself) again I'll play a video game instead. Games like Shadows of Brimstone, D&D Adventure games, and heck even Talisman with my kids allows me to get away from the Digital world completely (my choice of course) and gives me the balance I like for the complete boardgame experience with my family... A video game like Skyrim on the other hand also offers me a fully immersive RPG experience and will do things better than a boardgame in many ways. Heck, and I also get to have the tactile feel of a mouse and keyboard!
Well done my friend
Way to keep it real. You helped me articulate my own thoughts on this. I don't like continually switching context from physical to virtual. I think if bookkeeping gets so complex that it needs to be abstracted behind an app, then that's a bug and not a feature. This may be a good game, but tabletop gaming for me is a reprieve from screens encroaching on every other aspect of life. Easy pass.
I feel the same way
In Mansions on the app, when you character does something, you often get a card to add to your deck. But here the app takes this all away, and the worst is when at the city can crafting a new weapon, the app doesn't say take card 4D or the flaming sword card, it just updates the app! And the 2 weapon system they have is really taken from the Witcher series and doesn't really make sense in a dung crawl. So yes too much app focus, with no discovery of new cards in the game make it feel less than what it could have been. I mean, c'mon open a chest and get nothing physical? What were they thinking!
The weapon flipping feels more like Bloodborne The Boardgame. I thought it was fun in that game, but done even better in this one, honestly. Not sure why you think it "doesn't belong" in a dungeon crawler, but to each their own! All of that other stuff you mention is to streamline the game so you don't have a game like Middara or Sword and Sorcery where your table ends up full of cards and tokens and you forget which one does which. It is 100% in service to eliminating fiddliness which is something that has been plaguing a LOT of dungeon crawl games lately. And honestly, I enjoy fiddliness from time to time! It can be fun going through all your cards and abilities for that "A-HA!" moment when you remember something that's going to save your butt in a sticky situation!
some will love this some won't it is simple as that
I apologize for saying you were “grumpy” on another live stream. It was not intended to describe you, but another member of chat. We tease each other because we are both older and fit the grumpy old man stereotype. I have met so many wonderful content creators and I understand how much work you do. If you took offense, my apologies.
The sad part was how missed quoted I was I never said not to get a game and I’ve written 1 million times how much I want the game to do well
This game appears to be quite close to a game that I really enjoyed way back in the 80’s; it was a video game for the Atari (I had an Atari 800XL) called Close Assault where all of the mechanics were punched in via the keyboard and there was a physical map with counters that you could see for immersion. It worked great as that visual was not possible to have on the screen way back in the day. I think that this game just went a little too far (like you said) and crossed that line (between board/video games).
good one!!
Is it a video game? Is it a boardgame? It’s just a game. I was a naysayer for a while because I have lost faith in FFG. And I still stand by that. But I buckled and got this in the end. What’s important to me is that the money I spend provides me with entertainment. I’m about 10 hours down in this and I’ve got some great entertainment out of what I bought. As a hybrid I think they nailed it.
I don’t look at it as a successor to Descent. Just a form of entertainment. A game. Considering the amount of hours that I will get out of this I’m OK with $140. If it’s not supported after I finish then I’ve still got my moneys worth.
To each their own
@@seahawk8601 I understand why people can be upset. I get it. But as a company I think they’re looking ahead as well. They cannot Only focus on us old farts. They have to think about who is going to buy board games in five or 10 years from now. And that’s going to be younger adults the grew up in a video game world. Ones that need a higher level of complexity in their gaming in a shorter amount of time then can be provided with cards and cardboard only.
Hybrid games like this are not a bad strategic move to be honest in my opinion. But it does leave old-school purists behind unfortunately.
The nice thing is there is still a heck of a lot of other companies out there that Make fantastic table top only product :-)
People don't like to be told they are wrong . It is a computer game 😁 and you had the foresight to warn us and it is destined to fail. If I wanted a pc game I would play wildermyth on steam. Descent was marketed to be the next definitive rpg boardgame. It's no where near gloomhaven, middara & chronicles of drunagor. You are a gem to the community unlike some youtubers who are defending this game which I have unsubscribed due to dishonesty.
Thank you sir
The only issue I have with apps is exactly what you eluded to, there’s no guarantee how long it will last. With constant mobile OS updates, apps will simply die without update by the creator and if there is no money to be made that will cease.
The simple solution to this problem would be to provide a guarantee they’ll open source the software at end of life but to my knowledge that’s never happened.
I would hope because it is FFG that it will last
@@seahawk8601 I'm sure they will at least until they stop producing expansions, but give it a few years after that and we'll be lucky if it still works I think.
Interesting. I think digital comics are far superior than physical comic books. And I’m an old guy.
For me using the app to manage the game doesn’t break my immersion. I haven’t played this particular game yet but it’s arriving soon and I will give it a go.
and if that works for you great for me it doesn't .......so whos right?....both of us
@@seahawk8601 you’re right. I will let you know what I think after I play it.
Great video review, Rob. I have been waiting to get your opinion once you got this to the table. Based on what you and others are saying, I think I would enjoy the game for a while, but it wouldn't be worth the price in the long run. My son and I are currently loving Descent 1st edition, and looking forward to Oathsworn in the not-too-distant-future. This Legends of the Dark seems to pale next to either of those games.
oathsworn is going to be glorious
Pretty much agree with everything you said, but for some (me included) art can break a game for me, especially those with extravagant themes. For me, the art is absolutely hideous, especially that elf character. With both your and Vasal's review, even if I could look past the heinous art, the game is just not there.
I really hate myself for selling all my Descent 2nd Ed stuff a while back because I was all in for Gloomhaven. Not that Gloomhaven is bad, but after seeing FFG release this atrocity, Descent 2nd edition may end up being a relic of what great board games can be...
FFG please let your Asmodee overlords sell-off TI4 to someone who actually cares about creativity and more importantly, gamers!! :)
Some people are enjoying it and I get it but I agree with you it just doesn’t work for me either
Interesting review. It’s all subjective… either you like it or don’t. Either people like the app or they don’t. It’s purely subjective. Hell… fun is subjective lol. I’m liking it. That’s good enough for me lol.
My point exactly
I am sitting in the middle on this one. I like the app in some games and it works in this game but the app is flawed. It has bad voice acting which destroys it. If you have to spend that much time in an app it should be top quality especially from a heavyweight like FFG.
Yeah I agree