How to MAKE a LITHIUM ION Battery Pack for an Electric Motorcycle (No explosions, sorry)
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- čas přidán 12. 02. 2020
- This video shows how to make a Lithium Ion battery pack that we made for our electric motorcycle project. We bought an electric motorcycle and the Li-Ion battery that came with it was shot, so we made a DIY Lithium Ion battery pack ourselves. The electric sportbike now performs significantly better using our Home-made lithium ion battery pack. Easy battery to replicate, and in this video we explain how to build a lithium ion battery pack yourself...with no explosions. If you experience your home-made lithium battery exploding, though, do not blame me. My insurance barely covers taco bell once a month
PARTS LIST:
260 Batteries (HIGHLY recommend this seller. 100% delivery, no false claims)
www.aliexpress.com/item/33055...
Pure Nickel Strips
amzn.to/2tTKoHh
BMS:
www.aliexpress.com/item/32879...
Heat Shrink Sleeve:
www.aliexpress.com/item/33048...
Spot Welder:
www.aliexpress.com/item/33046...
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I'm sure I missed some parts, but I'll add them later if I did. You'll need some misc. things, as well, like hot glue, wire depending on requirements for your projects, etc. Hope this helps!
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BTW we worked on this battery on and off over the course of about a week. Not too much to tackle, and we'll be duplicating this battery again in a couple weeks when more batteries come in. The Chinese bike is bout to get freakin SENT
Thanks for watching, boys!
Hi, I had modified a passenger ICE vehicle into lithium ion battery driving EV, with my tech team.
If you are interesting to make a EV using current ICE vehicle architecture, I am willing to share my experience.
in my research you should not hot glue the cells together and it is best to have spacers to separate the cells for heat dissipation when making a high performance battery. the use of thermally conductive potting compounds is advised. the more the battery can stay at a proper operating temp the better the performance and life. think about a weak cooling system on a car. runs great when you first start it up but once it gets heated up its struggling and ultimately decreases the life of the vehicle
The Inja Remove the ring on your finger.!
Well explained and good build demonstration
@@Man-go-Everywhere agreed. Not unless you want a burn, loss of finger or death. I am lazy and didnt do the amp math but i am gonna guess it could be enough to kill someone. Oh just remebered, the ring could short out the battery and cause an explosion.
I pay you would you do the same and send to me ? And what would be price ?
Man, you can't imagine how much I appreciate how you broke down calculating the gauge of wire needed (also applied to nickel strip for the amp per cell). I was pretty confident, but this made It so much more clear for me
9
I got a exploding Vape battery ad In the beginning of this video, LOL.
Lol
One thing I've heard about making packs like this is to not glue the cells directly together as they might rub into each other over time so they might cause a severe short when damaged. Instead you could use a cell holder thing to keep the cells slightly apart.
I'm no genius, but hot glue is not a good idea. I like the plastic connector that leaves insulated air gaps.
@@jeffreybrewer9637 yeah likewise all i know about diy batteries is from the ebikes discord and even i know that whenever i see hot glue on 18650 packs i am seeing cringe. based batteries use cell holders
3d print the battery grid you need you can shape it to fit into the size of bike frame .
@@doooofus
Well this video is a couple of years old, don’t believe Curt hot glue’s battery cells anymore.
@@jeffreybrewer9637 well the air gaps are pointless once the battery is sealed anyway 😂 hot glue isn't a problem, battery spacers just make larger batteries
You two work very well together and this has been a very informative series.
I just finished watching BenjaminNelson's electric bike conversion. That series and this one is one of my favorites so far. I hope more people create series like these so we can get even more looks on how different people tackle different (or same) E-motorcycle problems.
OMG Thank you so much for this video!! I've probably watched 200 videos on battery builds and BMS explanations and all of them combined didn't teach me what I've learned in this video and I'm only at 26:24 right now! I'm building a 20s 8p for my Ebike and you helped me so much!
Learnt so much from this video, thank you 💆🏼♂️🔥
I learned more _CLARIFIED_ information from this single video than may be 5 or 6 other videos combined. I am very thankful to u guys for making it easier to understand the aspects involved and the way to combine the batteries, and what the outcome will be. I am _finally_ feeling far more confident in building my own - and am _VERY_ glad I happened upon this video. _THANK YOU!!_
Our pleasure!
@@TheInja IMO this video is very bloated, redundant and unnecessary. One can do this in five minutes without annoying, useless and way to loud music.
What you've done:
1.: showed the aliexpress page of cells with an extremly shaky camera without going into detail. This should have been in the firs 10 seconds, definitely not at the end.
2.: tell (but not shown!) about the nickel strips and the fake nickel plated strips. I commend for the education value here! This could be a 30 second segment.
3.: told about welding instead of soldering. That's 10 seconds.
4.: go into the basics of S and P of a battery. At least 3 times, very unnecessary. Explaining S and P stuff is one minute, tops.
5.: calculated necessary battery size for a given project, that's cool, another minute should be in an informative video.
6.: explaining a bit of BMS stuff, that's cool!
7.: made the battery pack itself. That could be another one minute timelapse, that's the only part in your video I'm quite happy with. Except the ludicrously generic, most annoying music, ever.
Wrapping up the battery is good!
8.: tested the bike, yay!
What you haven't done:
1.: show the BMS on any site you bought is from.
2.: for point 5: Amps for a given 3000W motor is fine and all, but you failed to mention the peak loads can be way higher.
Other things to correct:
1.: your battery build is very unsafe!
a.: you claim you have tested all the capacity of your cells, but it's not shown how it was managed. Yes, a 2 way charger shot is nice and all, but with that it would take many weeks to charge/discharge each cell and somehow note down the actual capacities.
b.: you have not shown or even done cell arranging! You have to be careful making your P blocks from selected cells to achieve same capacity for each P block. Failing that will lead to overdischarge is some P blocks. That will lead to range decrease very soon.
c.: battery holders are a thing for a reason! One just not glue together cells like that! Alternatively, you may create a rig that holds the cells together while welding them. I think it's a reasonable request.
Okay, so if anything in the video is there I mentioned it isn't, then, mea culpa. It's too long to watch the whole thing.
I know, this isn't a recent video, maybe your latest ones are way better. Or at least I hope so.
@@Sekir80 you obviously didn't watch any of it to learn anything then. I think your comment is unnecessary. We're just trying to help people and you're here complaining 💀
@@TheInja I liked stuff in your video and even tried to point those out. My complaint is the information density.
(and the atrocious music).
And I commend you are getting back to me, thank you!
Lord Curt is the boss. I love the collaboration and the support you provide the inja projects. You sir are a master at your craft.
Thanks for the nice breakdown of the process, enjoyed the results as much as your making it.
I love your show.So informative and very helpful .keep up the excellent clean work.
Hey guys. :3 I would recommend using “fish” paper between your series cells. The fish paper absorbs a little bit of vibration and can also prevent abrasion between the thin film of the cells causing a short and possible fire. Id also recommend using the paper to protect the nickel cell connections and to wrap your cell before you shrink wrap for extra durability and rubustness. Hot glue is ok for assembly but will weaken over time due to temp. Fluctuations and normal wear.
I agree with the fish paper but I don't think if it would really be too bad for the glue. Hot glue can handle about 160 F (melts at about 250 F) and the cells really should never be above 140ish.
Thx for making vids of you enjoying yourself 😊☀️
Maybe this video is amazing for those who don't know about building batteries but for us i saw many mistakes and risks on that build but great job. There will always an improvement for every experience.
Thanks. Very informative and well presented
Thanks for the great video very educational
very informative! nice work guys
Man, I would hire you guys too increase the range of my 40mile 100volt electric unicycle.
Fascinating
OMG THANK YOU! This finally answered my question on how to wire up at the end!! I found a million guides on how to do everything else but not how to wire discharge direct from battery and charge to the bms properly. Now i just have to figure out this stupid proprietary connector that the battery case uses but otherwise I'm set!
This battery was like 500 dollars for a 48v 13ah. Nuts. 2 had died at this point because they didn't wire them up safely so i refused to do it. I checked all the cells in the 2 dead batteries and lucky lucky they all seem good! Cheap batteries but hey now I have a 52v battery with WAY more range to boot! I just have to figure out how to wire everything up with the new controller and all that.
To clarify this is an ebike not a motorcycle or anything.
great cant get enough from this build.
The Inja: Made in China fixed in America.
Bro I may just steal this
@@TheInja 🤣
Hey man, what are your thoughts on using fuses to stop batteries from catching fire?
Apple: designed I'm claofinra made in china
This guy is a wealth of knowledge...
I have a 10kw motor with a 72v80ah battery pack on my bike. It does close to 130kph but the bms will shut down at high loads on sport mode, so it's unreliable to ride. I haven't ripped out the cells yet but I suspect the bms is not rated for the load. I'll rip the pack apart soon and test everything, and I will most likely upgrade the BMS to a (300a) Ant BMS with bluetooth so I can display cell details on a small android device mounted near the cluster. I'm not an expert in batteries so I'll learn more as I go plus this video was a great watch. Thanks for the well documented details @Inja and @lordchris - awesome build!
Easy fix- bypass the BMS for discharge, and only use it for charging.
really good explanation of what is happening here
Good choice in adding the extra cells, i had a similar issue, I wanted to do 72v or 20s 6p with the space i had or a 14s 9p i chose the latter as battery longevity is more important than my top speed, and the lower voltage let me drop the current per cell. So i have a slower bike, 70kmh instead of 90kmh but this version pulls really really fricken hard. Like 0-60kmh in just about 8seconds, also this is a bicycle so that's Plenty.
Congrats man, waiting 4 the next video...!
Made me aware of what the quality of workmanship that can be expected buyi g new.
Thanks
Im sticking to gas power motors..
thank you, there's some good explanations about the parallel/serial setup in the video (I am about to make a simple 12 volt 3P/3S 18650 solar powered outdoor night ligthing setup)
Thanks for the more in depth video. There are few safety concerns though. You should have insulated the positive terminals with fishpaper rings, otherwise the nickel strips may damage the top insulation over time due to vibration and lead to a severe short. Also recommended is to put fishpaper between all p groups for the same reason. Lastly, the balance wires should be layed out nicely and without crosses, otherwise they might short as well over time.
Agreed - it's a bad idea to build a battery like this with no insulation between P groups. I once opened a battery and found that the insulation had come apart on one of the cells, so now I'm always quite careful about this.
Agreed- Especially considering how much heat will be generated with the small wire sizes and not enough meat on the series connections. This is a very dangerous battery!
@@Badgermilk-zc2wy Yes, 3000/72 = ~42 Amps, that's a lot of current for that wire, not a whole lot of margin there, and the cells alternating like that and directly touching basically puts too much trust in the thin shrink wrapping around the cells. It will work initially but over the longer run this is a recipe for very bad trouble. One single bad cell in this pack and the whole thing will go up.
Oh, and I only just noticed that the BMS is sitting on top of a thin piece of tape bridging some 30V worth of cells, that's a short waiting to happen as well because the BMS edge will wear through the tape and/or the cell wrap.
Thanks a lot guys you showed me quite a bit it’s not like I can do this like that but you have shown me some tricks for a little experiments I wanna try thank you very much excellent job it looks so cool I mean by that it looks fun
Great video guys, so much helpful information absolutely loved it. just one question, how is the degradation of the pack?
Only thing I would have done differently is add a layer of capton tape great job
Nice vid love your content ♥️💪
I loved how much your insurance coverz😂
Thank you soooooo much for the video. It really answered a question I had about how many amps a battery pack can deliver when fully built. I am working on a 16s 13p battery for my Super73 R. Thank you sooo much for your explanation🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾. I definitely subscribed
Great tutorial on battery builds! Battery price on Alibaba has gone up as of 3/20/21 from $921 to $981 for the largest order! Plus the shipping was free and now its $23.
shipping to canada is $200 and the biggest pack costs $1,425... WTF.
Awesome! I need a 13.5+ 21a capacity. Now I’m thinking about building one. Debating 50ah or 100ah+.
Wow.. the guy explained everything I wasn’t clear on in the first two minutes of the video lol
We love your videos in Saudi Arabia
I was watching part of this on my break. I work at a Lowes.
Sorry man I wasn't trying to sound negative you did a great job in the video and you give a great explanation.
If you do a similar video in future, can you give some detail into wiring the bms. Thanks 😊
Nice job 👍
excellent super informative video, two bros run to lowes...:)
Guys, nice project.
Very nice video, would love to hear how this is holding up. I'm thinking you're asking quite a bit for those wiring sizes and nickel strip over long durations.
very nice video
Great job and interesting video. Unfortunately what I can't get past, is that ever one of those cells and welds is a protentional point of failure. I'd much prefer larger cell and less welds.
Hey guys very impressive watching this sped up you two look like robots. That would be something you guys need to do is start a company with robots doing a lot of that and you guys can start collecting some moooolaaaa. I’m sure someone out there is trying to find away to do that.I’m sure you would need some people to do different things to make those batteries. But I’m sure a robot could do a lot of the connections and glueing and laying down the nickel strips. If you guys do that you better let me know so I can get my cut. Lol. It’s great to have two doing all that work. That makes it nice to takes turns doing the different jobs for building such a massive battery. Can’t wait for more videos guys. I love motorcycle so this is so awesome making a E- cycle can’t really call it a motorcycle now. I have a stealth bomber and did some customization to it and put on some after market parts on it. It looks like a dirt bike with pedals with the fenders an all. It’s pretty cool I’m going to make a video of it real soon. Just waiting for the weather to get warmer. It’s been really cold and cloudy and raining where I live. Awesome job fellas very nicely done and well thought out. Ride safe and always wear your riding gear and always wear gloves and a helmet. Take care and God Bless.
solid info
nice stuff guys
Very interesting vid! I vote your colleague in this vid for NASA. Hes also got a couple of rockets for arms haha
Lol
@@TheInja How much did you spend in total on the bike including all upgrades
Nice battery build ,discharge leads look a little small though,, I’m running a 3000w motor , however at full throttle it pulls over 8000w , maybe double up on your discharge leads , reduce bottleneck , great video 👍
Appreciate it!
Everyone saying lol, I'm mechanic i learned alot from this one video about the lithium ion.batts one smart fella so not going question, even my lipos with my rc cars cheesy soft high gauge wire that gets hot not even copper so I'm betting even tho thin wire bc its copper .
What size should they be at 8000watts?
At 8000w ,it’s pulling over 100amps ,I used 2 x 10awg silicone wire , with a 200amp Bluetooth BMS ,the BMS monitors power drain ,state of charge and balancing
Love it
Great build and great inspirational videos. 👍. I just recently rescued and abandoned electric sport bike style QSmotor 72v 2000w 180613 652004. The bike was in a small collision so it I will to purchase the shell, right side handle bar, right side brake handle and most definitely a charger. Any hints on where begin?
Hi. Thanks for this great tutorial video.
I was wondering if its easier to build what you did here using 9v batteries. What are the obstacles that you will come across with building a pack with 9v batteries?
Thanks
cool stuff.
Car audio guys build crazy huge lithium battery packs.
They have moved to LTO tech now.
You can slowly watch the food and drinks disappearing from the counter as the days progress...gotta keep the gainz up while making moves
big fax
Nice video guys. Is there no risk of overheating with the cells so closely packed? Also, when you connect two parallel rows to make the series connection between two rows, is it necessary to make a connection for each pair of cells (between -ve and +ve sides)?
Heat very well could be an issue, but we added enough cells that they're weren't taxed enough to make much heat.
For series connections, the more you make the less heat and resistance there is, so the cooler and more efficient it runs. We needed pretty all the connections we made to not restrict it at all.
you need to add insulator between the groups because there's a risk of fire in there if the wrap they have rubbed and makes a big short, unstoppable fire
thank you.i'm from bangladesh,i like your video,nice video,sorry,i'm perfectly not tolking inglish lenguage
you inspired to to make my own mini battery pack for charging phones or devices
Now you could ad more bat. to the bike. Or ad an 3kW onboard charger you can plug in with every houshold plug. so you can coute everywhere for zero cost.;)
Imagine that you guys put that Tesla insanity module on there... lol 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
How did this battery welder work out for you? I bought a small one that burned up in about 2 welds and I don't want to burn more money on another cheap one or paying 3x what I need to. Thanks!
Love it idol been watching u since uve been scam buy that scmmer guy,, like that
Nice
Great video. May I ask you a question? I have a device using INR 18650 batteries. But I cannot find them on the market; I only find 18650 batteries (comparable voltage and mah). Can I use these ones for my device? Thanks
Good deal
Hey Guys, thanks for this informative video regarding the battery pack and how to make it. I've been searching for it for a long time and stumbled on your channel with a Recommendation. I've got a few questions to ask you guys actually a lot as I'm making an E-Bike from scratch so would you mind answering them for me 😅😅
Is it possible if I can mail u or text u up ?
Just a couple of things 1/ those cables look way too small to handle that kind of power you are using.
2/ you don't seem to have any kind of cooling gaps, so when you start to draw or charge at higher rates the batteries may get very hot.
Cooling can make a huge difference to how the batteries perform and last.
Do you need to fully charge the cells before constructing the pack? Or what voltage do you want each cell (roughly) when you wire up the pack? Are you wanting close to 3.7 volts per cell (since that is the nominal voltage) when wiring it or are you wanting peak voltage (4.2 volts)? Thanks!
You just want them to be equal voltage. But I’m not battery maker.
Shouldn't use glue, when hardens it's prone to cracking and should use VHB tape.
The Inja I love this series, where do you buy your big heat shrink for the battery? I want some to help waterproof mine
Links in description 👌🏽
Awesome thank you. I'm here doing some thinking, I wonder if the controller/hub motor the bike shipped with supports regenerative braking? It would definitely help with the brake squeaks, if it were enabled there is a chance the pads are contaminated as well so sanding them or replacing could solve that issue 🧐📝 fun times ahead!!
How many miles can you get out this battery I made a 48v this way and battery dint last 10 minute's so I tuck my old battery apart and copied how they made it and its spot on I'm going to have a go at making one of these 72v out drill batteries
Lets say youre converting a bike and want more battery, is it possible to add additional battery pack in for example hard saddlebags? I dont see why not but i was thinking ammo cases half filled with battery leaving some storage
can you tell me what spot welder you used ? :) i am planning to do something similar and i need spot welder :D
I'm currently considering building my own E-bike and I've always wanted a Busa.... Do you think the frame is large enough to be comparable to at least a 650? I'm not tryna build my own casket lol
have you guys ever messed with a surron 60volt battery?i have one that needs a bms and seem to locate/source a suitable replacement.i believe the cells are capable of 10a output.
Well, I think I'm going to do it. Build my dream battery for my solar bike. Thanks for the advice. Should I waste a cell playing with the welding settings?
It's not about batteries, it's about light vehicles and low friction mostly. Not quite there yet but it's exciting !
But also......batteries.
We're there, people just like making excuses for procrastinating
Hey what gauge wire did you use for your main pos and neg to go to the bms???
Freaken Nice! what would something like this go for,?
Inja what is your take on using fuses on Individual cells so they don't catch on fire?
For the current you are going to draw from the pack, you might want to take a closer look at wire sizing. Those look pretty undersized.
Those cells start to overheat at 20a soo it's enough for this pack
Way under sized make sure BMS connection are all same length too 😂
I agree. I had discharge wires 4x as large on my RC helicopter running a 12S setup lol. Higher volts will drop amp load, but you are still shooting alot of watts over those wires.
Multiply the number of cells connected in parallel to the amp output of each individual to get the total current. 12 cells x 20a = 240a capability. Even at 10a each that's 120amps.
4:55 Cute lady alert --- nice parcel of eye-candy in da background there! :D
Thanks for the bms explanation. That's one thing I didnt understand.
Edit: as well are you upgrading to 8000watts?
Yep! Parts on the way
@@TheInja nice cant wait. I really Want to know how that is hooked up. But I'm really not sure. Hope you can show all of how the whole setup is hooked together, that would be great. Like Take it all apart, install it, and then put back together. Love learning about every little thing.
@@freedomforall2924 yep, coming next video when we install all the new upgrades. 👌🏽 Glad you're enjoying the series!
Very satisfying. But I think it's not good idea to stick batteries together when they are in series connection without extra Insulation. When the batteries become hot their plastic cover can be damaged and then the short circuit risk is very high. Don't know maybe I'm too cautious about it.
@theinja How much did you spend in total after all upgrades?
no extra protection between positive and negative cell it might cause fire later once cell peeled due to rubbing or heat.
The Inja- let me know if it burns or not. Something about leaving a small gap for every battery and temperature 🌡 to set-up for the batteries for the cold or hot days
isolate between serials with adhesive paper! and temperature sensor imo is for battery temp measurement, not bms, as bms have integrated temperature monitoring already
Can I actually connect a 12S battery pack with a 13S battery pack in parallel?
I think the BMS of the 12S stops loading when it is full while the 13s will still charge up.
And when I've run the 13s empty enough, the Bms from the 12s starts up again and both batteries discharge, right?
I know this article is 4 years old But I would like to Add To those reading this That adding a blue tooth Will allow allow Will allow you to monitor those cells and make sure everything stays unbalanced Keeping it cool is extremely important Be careful and Be careful and enjoy
Those cells are for laptop and other slow drain devices. You’re running a risk of heat induced battery damage and possibly fire drawing the amps needed for an e-bike. Not to mention and electric motorcycle.
They explained what the rated amp draw of the batteries were so no, they’re not running that risk. They’ve already taken the drain rate calculation into account.
@@jsl6155 I checked the specs from the links provided. They are at risk but it’s not my ass that’s going to get burnt. Not like I know what I’m talking about or anything. I only have a 3.5second 0-60mph 12kw nominal hub motor Emmo Proton with 72ah capable of 800 continuous amps. Nah. No clue.
Which charger are you using to test the capacity of the 18650 cells. Could you send a link to the charger , I am planning on making a go kart using these cells.
Oh, sure! I'll add the link when I can
What do you use to charge the pack?
I'm trying to charge the 20S battery from my EUC separately without the mother board connections. it's got two small (black and red) wires but they have no voltage. I have the original 84V charger. Can I just connect to the battery output and charge it that way? I think the battery might be only 1P