Another thing to note that Hector mentions every year on Dios Los Muertos, Ernesto doesn’t actually leave the land of the dead, instead choosing to stay and throwing a party and having a concert at the end of the night. Add to the fact that his entire mansion is a tribute to himself, playing scenes from his movies and other things. It subtly shows that Ernesto only cares about himself, that he doesn’t visit loved ones for the the holiday because the only person he cares for is himself. Granted when watching it the first time, I could tell Hector was going to be Miguel’s real ancestor, but the subtle storytelling is still a credit to Pixar and their talent.
Alternatively the fact that he doesn't visit the land of the living might mean that he can't. Sure some people admired and respected him and left him offerings and such, but the admiration of fans who do not personally know you if not the same thing as love. In a day specifically dedicated to family and loved ones it's possible nobody bothers with him, Is he even ON any ofrendas to give him the capability of crossing over in the first place. He killed the one person he had a genuine connection with I doubt anybody else is putting his photo on the list of the altar of photos of people that actually love and care about. People more for him yes but in the way you would mourn a celebrity not the way you would mourn a family member. And what the photo of a fanboy even count since Hector says that it needs to be by somebody who actually has real memories of you and who knew you while you in life. Miguel might have loved his music but I highly doubt that Miguel knew him so his altar probably wouldn't even count. you are wrong but he's fully self-centered but if he's right and most of the stuff there is stuff that was left for him as some kind of admiration sacrifice or whatever it makes sense and if he has nobody to go back to why would he cross over when he could just enjoy the fact that he has a bunch of stuff and a whole place set up for him to be himself and do the one thing that he cared about in life doing music for people performing that was the one thing that he cared about while he was alive of course it would be the one thing he would continue to care about after he died. He literally has nothing else.
@@lahlybird895 you might be right that he can’t go back to the living world on that, I will give you that. I just think that even if he had the ability to visit the living world, he would choose not to. He’s a narcissist who loves himself so much that every year on the day of the dead he throws a big party and has a big show at sunrise, all of it to fill up his ego. He might not be able to go to the living world as there might not be anyone who has passed on the memory of him, but even if he could go to the living world, I don’t think he would choose to. For me it’s not a matter of whether he can, but whether he would want to. He’s too self-centered and narcissistic to care for anyone but himself. But I like your theory and it sounds interesting.
Part of Coco's charm is that even if you see the twist coming, it doesn't ruin the movie for you. The real twist was the purpose of the song, anyway. And that wasn't just a twist for the sake of a twist, it had a deep meaning that gave the movie its entire heart.
One thing to note is that, besides the publicity, the reason Ernesto just accepted that Miguel was his grandson was probably because, being as famous and selfish as he is, he’s definitely the kind of person to have kids he doesn’t know about.
I watched this movie so many times and I always just assumed that was the case. It just seemed fitting for his character. He had this charismatic personality on the outside but selfish on the inside.
This was my thought too, Ernesto definitely would have heirs in the living world who either don't know or do but either don't care or weren't made legitimate so they don't have access to his estate.
What I love about him is that he’s a villain that can actually happen in real life. Murdering a friend and stealing his ideas is something that has probably happened. It’s an incredibly evil and raw depiction of evil
Ironically, the more the living tries to forget Ernesto, the more he’s going to be remembered, but no longer as “the greatest musician of all time”, but now as the murderer and fraud that he secretly was. Also, his albums and films still exist too, so just forgetting him isn’t going to erase any evidence of his existence back in the living with those albums and films and merchandise. So he’s basically trapped forever in the Land of the Dead being unable to cross the Marigold bridge since none of his fans will put his photo on any of their ofrendas and being unable to succumb to the Final Death since he’s now an infamous murderer with the same reputation as Charles Manson, John Wilkes Booth and Adolf Hitler.
I'm 100% sure there'd still be Ernesto fans out there willing to make offerings with his pics and defend him. Some ppl have no morals, all those ppl you mentioned have fans TODAY
On the other hand, Ernesto never seemed to care to cross the Marigold bridge when he was still in high regard, except maybe to collect his fan's gifts that were piling up in his mansion. He was basically already alone all the time.
Not to mention: - He can't go back to his old mansion because the guards wouldn't let him in. All those offerings will either go to waste or to someone else. - He will be shamed wherever he does decide to live, and he can't even live with the community of rejects that Hector lived with because... well, they all hate him now! - This all assuming he can even get out from under the bell, where he is currently trapped. He probably can't lift it on his own, he probably can't yell for help, and even if he could, who would actually help him now that everybody knows who he really is?
It also makes it even darker when you realize that if hector did not meet Miguel, coco would’ve died and he would’ve been ultimately forgotten. It’s such a tragic thought that he was murdered and forgotten by his family because he was shunned, and the only person that remembers him has Alzheimer’s. It was also his last chance to cross the marigold bridge, so it was truly beautiful that he met his great, great grandson and reunited with his family.
I love the ending where Miguel stimulates Coco's mind through music she knew from childhood. You know why? Because it actually works. I know that because I had my mind stimulated after a traumatic brain injury through music I knew from childhood. VeggieTales songs to be exact.
Another clue is the petal Ernesto holds never glows when he starts to give his blessing like it does when Miguel’s family gives theirs…also Hector has a gold tooth like the guitar
I remember before watching the film, I had guessed Hector was related to Miguel and not Ernesto. Saw it coming miles away… but I still felt a big impact. How? Because they cared about writing the reveal to make sense, make it feel like a betrayal not just for Miguel but for us as the audience, and building it up little by little. Ernesto is even presented as a thematic contrast to what Miguel learns throughout the film and Hector already knew. Ernesto only caring about seizing his moment left him rotten, alone, and in the end forgotten. Hector on the other hand got his family back and was remembered, cause he knew family was what mattered most. The people who cherish and love others will forever be immortalized and remembered, and those only caring for themselves and material things like fame and fortune are forgotten. That’s quality writing right there imo, especially for an antagonist 👍
That is similar to my reaction. I initially saw a poster with Miguel and Hector on it. I assumed, “shabby skeleton and little kid? Day of the dead motif? This has to be a story about a romp through the afterlife with an ancestor.” I got super excited for the movie. When I saw the trailer later and saw they were calling the Ernesto the kid’s ancestor, I got disappointed and didn’t watch it for years. Later, through internet pop culture osmosis, I learned I was originally correct in assuming Hector was the ancestor. It’s now my favorite movie. I had a grandfather who would sing to me when I was a little kid (Waylon Jennings “Amanda”) and he passed away when I was young, and I first saw the movie a few months before my grandma passed away. Coco speaks to me on so many levels.
I usually spot this kind of twist but I didn't suspect Hector because 1) he looked broader in the photo and 2) the way he was dressed, I thought he was a deliberate Tom Sawyer style character.
No, Ernesto was not forgotten and will probably be never be forgotten for a looong time. He is a celebrity, eveb when people found out his true colors and hated him, they are still in their memories. So he wont fade away, but he will be stuck in that bell.
It’s doubtful Ernesto will ever be forgotten, and honestly, his reputation probably won’t even take much of a hit. Imagine if today, some kid said that his great grandfather was murdered by Elvis, with no evidence. How many fans do you think Elvis would lose? We don’t even have to imagine a hypothetical, we have a real life example. Think of all the allegations made against Michael Jackson. There’s a lot more evidence for what he did than for what Ernesto did, and Jackson is still near universally beloved.
I think the thing that makes Ernesto good twist villain is the fact that his reveal as a villain doesn't change his character and all what we knew about him before he turned out to be murderer still make sense and still works. Because one of the main problem with twist villains is that usually we get them pretending to be good guy whole movie but in the end revealing the fact that the whole time they were completely different person, so everything we knew about this character was just lie. But with Ernesto it's different. He remains the same character through all story, from the moment he seemed to be a famous musician, good role model, Miguel's grandfather and etc, to the moment he turned out to be narcissistic cruel man, who killed his best friend and was ready to kill his grandson just to become and remain popular. His big reveal doesn't change the person he is, it changes the way we look at him
Ernesto works really well as a twist villain because up until he betrays Miguel he has no reason to be evil toward him: he just found his great great grandson who also want to be a musician and is super famous. He was completely willing to send him back with his blessing and only turned when his lies were in danger of being exposed. Ironically it would’ve been found out soon enough as Ernesto’s blessing wouldn’t have worked as he wasn’t one of Miguel’s family, though most likely just Ernesto thinking he was a fraud, but it could’ve been more interesting for Miguel, confused at why it isn’t working, show Ernesto the picture and Ernesto recognizing the guitar and realizing he was Hector’s descendant. But no matter how you slice it, he was an excellently crafted villain. More than that, this movie was so beautiful, and there are parts that still make me cry to this day. Disney, more of this: creative works with strong writing, wonderful emotional moments and timeless themes of family. And no identity politics, please!
@@IAmTheEagleHTM well that's why I was asking to clarify its a slightly vague statement that could have multiple meanings which in this particular context is slightly confusing
THANK YOU for acknowledging that Ernesto didn't die from the second bell falling on him! Not enough people realize how horrible his punishment really was. He got trapped under a giant bell. It's a tiny cell. It's pitch black. Nobody can see or hear him. He's in solitary confinement. To make matters worse, he's already traumatized by the fact that the bell is what killed him in life. At least the walls of his cell can make music to entertain himself, although it makes the entire cell vibrate when he does so. Even if he could escape, he couldn't go back to the only (after)life he ever knew. Everyone who was at the concert knows the truth by now, and by the time he gets out they will have spread it to the entire land of the dead. Ernesto will be universally hated wherever he goes. He can't even escape to what was once his own mansion, because his guards will know what he did. Nor can he escape to what was once Hector's community, because he would have told them all what's going on by this point. And when he tries to escape to the Land of the Living (remember, he wasn't there to see Miguel leave), he will be in for a huge shock when he can't even get past security. And even if he could get back to earth, he would realize that his only fans left are the kind of people who defend Hitler. He could maybe get a few gifts from them, but nothing compared to what he had before. And all this is made so much worse when you realize that every moment of Ernesto's music career was spent trying to prolong his existence in the Land of the Dead.
Another clue is thinking about who Mamá Imelda is like as a person. She is clearly the one in charge and she would never be charmed by someone like Ernesto. After the reveal when we actually see them interact, it's so clear because their stage chemistry is so bad with them each fighting for power (and the picture).
Fun detail that I've never heard anyone mention about this movie: Near the beginning, Hector greets the artist Frida Kahlo with "Hey, sissy!" Frida Kahlo was a real life Mexican artist who lived in the early 20th century. Her husband's name was Diego Rivera. Hector's last name is also Rivera. Therefore, it is entirely possible that Diego is Hector's brother, which would mean that Frida is Hector's sister-in-law. (Which also means Miguel was, as he suspected, related to a famous artist.)
One thing that was good too was that it had been a while since we had gotten a villain who was just striaght up bad. Not everyone needs a tragic backstory or a morally grey reasoning, sometimes they're just yucky.
And the thing that makes it even greater is that the message, that "seize your moment" thing, works pretty well both ways, you can see it as an incentive to be great, creative and a beautiful person, but also to be self-absorbed and cruel. That's what makes this movie so outstanding to me: That first you think it will be the same "be true to yourself, no matter what everyone else thinks" kind of story that we have already seen so many times, and then, they flip it just on the head, and yet the core message doesn't change, what changes is how you interpret it. It can be great advise, and it can be terrible advise, what matters is what you make of it.
He does have a backstory, it’s just not pushed in your face. The implication is that Ernesto, like Hector, grew up poor and was trying to get out of his small town and find fame as a musician. The difference between them is that Hector had a wife and a family whom he missed and wanted to return to, while Ernesto had only himself, and was so desperate to escape his circumstances that he was willing to resort to theft and murder. All of Ernesto’s grandstanding is a front to disguise his insecurity over the fact that deep down, he was once a nobody, and if anyone ever found out the truth, he would go back to being a nobody.
If Hector's family didn't ban misic, they would have found out the truth about Ernesto a long time ago due to the songs and would have also notice the guitar Ernesto was holding. The guitar was Hector's. He would have been exposed.
And Mama Coco wouldn't have had dementia -- or at least she would have been able to manage it much more effectively. I know that's scientifically accurate because it happened to me. I suffered a severe brain injury and was unable to talk for a few days, but I got it back by listening to VeggieTales songs I knew from childhood and lipsynching the words.
@@Joe-rz3fd You're right. The music ban did more harm than good. Music really helps people. Hector's family really had no idea what they were doing. Not only this act let Ernesto getting away with it for decades, but was also causing Coco dementia.
@@Joe-rz3fdi heard this one guy lost his memory from a car crash but it returned from seeing his cousin reinact a Sonic meme he made with some sonic toys.
They can it's just they need good writing for some villains and most writers these days are bad at writing And we have helicopter parents overreacting about villains being too scary for kids
Ernesto not knowing he had a great great grandson yet still accepting the possibility that he did just goes to show how many people he had relations with. It hints that, in classic rich celebrity fashion, he treated people as disposable objects for his own benefit and never really cared about anyone other than himself.
I always did kind of find it silly that Ernesto was exposed for his actions when Miguel returned to the living. There is no way that a child and an old woman who had dementia, who come from a family who blatantly hates music, were able to convince an entire town of the history of Ernesto and Hector.
They were probably only able to prove Ernesto’s songs came from Hector via the letters he wrote Coco, and the fact that Cruz never credited him would paint the musician as a fraud in some peoples eyes.
It’s incredibly unrealistic. And I get why they did it (“You successfully exposed a murderer and thief to your family, but the vast majority of people still see him as beloved figure” is a bit heavy for a kids movie), but yeah, there’s no way most of the town, let alone the massive legions of Ernesto’s fans (which span multiple generations) are going to take the word of a kid without any hard evidence over that of their mega-idol.
@@tommyl.dayandtherunaways820well they had letters that hector wrote for Coco with the lyrics to the songs plus a picture of Hector with the iconic guitar
(ik im a bit late) but you could also tell that Ernesto was more about the fame and popularity more than his family like Hector is because of how they sang Remember Me. Hector's is more lower and softer while Ernesto's is cheerful and upbeat. Ernesto clearly didn't know the meaning of the song so he sang it to either portray it as directed to a lover or to his fans but Hector wrote it for Coco. In my opinion, that shows enough who's more focused on what; Ernesto is focused on his fame and Hector is more focused on his family
Ernesto was such a great villain on his own as twist-type that even shocked so hard on the audience specially here at Mexico on several old-aged ones which actually were enjoying a lot how he resembled several great old B&W era of movies´s starts back here in Mexico, specially Pedro Infante and Jorge Negrete (which both appeared on scene aside De la Cruz), and well they were known to portray great heros and never barely played villains in all (Negrete at much played antiheros), so when they saw him being the villain who fooled everyone and being so cruel with Miguel and Hector and everyone, the old-people were so astonished and broken-hearted of that twist comparing aghast how the real references never ever indeed played proper villains and so then they totally realized he was a total complex different character than just a simple hommage for their idols when younger. So much stricking well done was Ernesto and the whole movie back then at Mexico indeed - it lasted 3 whole months from late October to early January and even the next year for Dia de los Muertos/Day of the Dead Ones anniversary it got relaunched AGAIN, and it´s so cherished and admired here because the Pixar team did just a wonderfull work on Mexican society not just on their traditions but actually their current day of living, which it was sensed so much wholesome real and true than a lot of idealized and stereotypical views of the country coming from foreign movies - even Guillermo Del Toro "The Book of Life" from a few years earlier was much using stereotypes and odd idealizations of the country regardless than actually Del Toro is born and grew up in Mexico, but kinda made a more stereotypical and cliched movie than what the Coco producers made, so Mexican people loved it a lot and felt honored with that.
That's why they couldn't use Infante or Negrete as the big idol for Miguel and had to invent a new one. Nobody would have forgiven them if they turned and ACTUAL Mexican idol into a villain.
@@DoloresLehmann makes sense and neverthless still some people acknowledged the hommage resemblance-references to both of them - though later on it´s clearly stated is none of them - and well some old ladies were very shocked when the twist happened because indeed the original heroic references for them got such a constrast with a villain, Pixar neverthless knew how to make proper twist-villains.
I adore this movie and the twist really did take me off guard the first time I watched it. I think the reason why is because the traits of Ernesto are so cleverly laid out so that they're doubled-edged. Ernesto is a fan of the spotlight and shows Miguel off to everyone. At first, it seems like it's because he wants to celebrate his long lost family member, but in reality it's all a publicity stunt and a way to get the audience on his side even more even though he doesnt acrually care. As you said, Ernesto is also extremely dedicated to his music and image, which makes him seem ambitious and heroic that he left his family to follow his dreams; but in reality it's because he wants fame and fortune to the most selfish degree, to the point where he's willing to sacrifice his best friend and co-creator of the music. It's so much better than Hans, who I think is the worst twist villain. Ernesto is set up as a fame-hungry man, but we're willing to overlook it because we think Miguel finally found his family. With Hans, there's no indication that he's going to be the villain. He's very sweet to Anna, willing to help when things are tough, and really never shows any sign of duplicity. I guess it's the passive mention that he's basically last in line for the throne and will never get it, but that's basically a throwaway line and it doesn't seem to bother him. They even retcon it in the Broadway musical so that it's a bigger deal to him and is played up more to the audience. The best twist villains lay breadcrumbs for the audience to follow, making the second watchthrough a completely different experience as you sus out all the small details. The worst are the ones that you rewatch and can't see any indication of what's to come. It makes it seem like the writers are either a. Lazy, b. Unsure of what they want, or c. Haughty because they think they pulled a fast one on the audience even though they gave no chance for the audience to solve the mystery. Honestly, Coco and Wreck It Ralph are lightning in a bottle for this trope that I don't think we'll get back for a very long time.
Yup. The issue with Hans seems to be that Elsa was originally supposed to be the villain of Frozen (as the movie is very loosely based off of The Snow Queen, with Elsa being based off the evil Snow Queen herself). I mean, seriously? “Let it Go” is a stereotypical villain song. But somewhere along the line (probably late in the screenwriting process), Disney decided that a redemption story for Elsa would work better, and decided to make Hans into a twist villain. That’s why it’s so jarring-it was a very late addition to the story. Twists don’t really work unless the twist is thought about throughout the writing of the story. The author needs to leave a breadcrumb trail that is subtle enough that the reader/viewer/game player can easily miss it at first but obvious enough that after encountering the twist, the reader/viewer/player isn’t angry at the writers for the deception, but laughs at oneself, wondering why they didn’t see it coming.
I feel like the unspoken subtext with Hector and Ernesto is that they’re the same character archetype. They both wanted to escape their small town and become famous musicians. Their mutual love of music is what made them friends. However, they diverge at a very critical point: when given a choice between fame or family, Hector chooses family, and Ernesto chooses fame. We can also infer that since Ernesto was much more of a playboy, he didn’t have a stable family like Hector did. He allowed his passion for music to be consumed by his ego and his desperation to become “somebody”, to the point where he was willing to betray the one real friend he had left.
I personally think a cool idea for future videos would be what if rewrites for films that had so much potential but were wasted, like for me being Ralph Breaks the Internet, Frozen II and Wish. I think you can bring in concepts from the art books that can work. Examples being: Ralph Breaks the Internet exploring the concept of video games and travelling to a steam train hub which they could go into any game they want and having an actual villain. Frozen II: By having Anna developing powers of empathy while realising that she is linked to an element as much as Elsa is to water. Also having the deer spirit integral to the story. And Wish: Asha already being the king's apprentice but is in a deep conflict between where was told what she could be vs what she actually be if she explored her potential, also giving her a compassionate side towards the people for all selfless reasons. I think that would be neat.
When I saw Coco for the first time, I had a strange feeling that something wasn't right about Ernesto being Miguel's great-great Grandfather, and when they finally meet at the party, the *_feeling_* that something was wrong still wouldn't leave me. And then when that plot twist was revealed that Ernesto was a murderer and got rid of Miguel, I was like "I KNEW IT! I KNEW THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH HIM!"😤 Plus my mind was so focus on figuring out about Ernesto, that I didn't took the time to realize that Hector was Miguel's REAL great-great Grandfather all along, I should've known sooner, but again I was so focus on the story and characters in the present moment, that I blinded myself from seeing that the answer was right there all this time. Nonetheless I was happy with the heartfelt surprise of Hector being Coco's father and Miguel's REAL family, it made me love the movie even more❤
Your right. When I watched Coco in theaters I kinda questioned Ernesto about being a good role mode after Miquel believed him to be his great great grandfather. Since he was said to abandon his family. What I also like about Ernesto Da La Cruz being a twist villain is it also represents the hard truth that some famous people and politicians are not who they say they are. A very hard truth for a kids movie.
This was sadly John Lasseter's last film he ever produced at Pixar before being wrongly terminated from his job! But I guess one could say he went out with a bang on this one!
i mentioned on your wreck it ralph video that a villain like hans could work if it was done in a way that made hints/made it more clear that the character was only helping the protagonist as a way to serve themsleves, and i think ernesto de la cruz is a good example of that, like the opposite of hans in quality of a twist villain, the good actions they do for miguel are done in situations that help him become more popular/respected. kid falls into pool? jump in and save him! even if skeletons cant drown(presumably) it would still make him look good. finds out he has a great great grandson who is alive and in the afterlife with him? parade him around and show him to everyone to gain more popularity. the child hes been parading around ends up finding something out that could jeopardize his public image? throw the child into a cave with no possible escape for them
I'd like to point out that Miguel's family would've recognized him because they visited their descendants every year for the Day of the Dead, and since Earnesto never left the Land of the Dead to visit anyone it makes complete sense that even with him as a red herring candidate for Miguel's great great grandfather, he wouldn't recognize Miguel like the rest of the family who have visited him his whole life would. Even Hector didn't recognize he was related to Miguel on sight and it's because he had never been back to the land of the living to have ever seen him prior to meeting him in the land of the dead
Ernesto de la Cruz made a movie where he reenacted the cold blooded premeditated murder of his best friend THAT HE COMMITED down to the smallest detail - But could only handle doing so by casting himself as the victim. Because that's how he viewed himself and that is some effed up villainous shit right there.
I do wonder how they convinced Ernesto's fans who were still living that this kid actually visited the land of the dead and learned this dirty secret to turn even the living fans against him 😂 I'm not saying skipping this makes it a bad movie, but that it is a big question they never answer cause it was in the epilogue
iirc, coco still had original papers containing lyrics of "remember me", and that was released into the public, also the photo of hector with the guitar
I doubt it. Miguel has no hard evidence. It’s his word against one of the most beloved musicians in Mexico Imagine if some kid said that his great-grandfather was murdered by Elvis, but doesn’t have any proof. How many fans would Elvis lose?
One of the subtle hints i like regarding Ernesto's character is at the very beginning of the movie. When he sings, "know that i'm with you the only way that i can be," he winks at the audience. He is constantly with us in the only way he can be: disengenuously, as a con man, and a liar.
I love that the most key thing about AMAZING twist villains is their tone, a good twist villain NEVER actually changes personality only their attitude towards the MC when they are now in their way. Disney recently has failed to address this whether it be Zootopia or Frozen where the villains do a full 180, unlike King Candy or Ernesto, they stay the EXACT same throughout the whole film, its only when the MC finally realizes that they are not a good person do they actually change their ways and tactics.
Another clue is when Ernesto tells Miguel something like, “One can’t deny who he is meant to be.” My mom said, “That’s not a good message for kids!” Villians usually give bad advice to child characters so it makes sense for Ernesto’s status as a bad guy.
Another clue is Hector changes a dirty word for a tame one in ‘Juanita’ when he remembers that Miguel is there and can hear him; when his friend protects the word change Hector replies ‘there are children present’. Hector also shows concern for Miguel and tries to return him to his family when he learns that Miguel has family looking for him. Ernesto on the other hand is in absolutely no hurry to get Miguel back to the Land of the Living and only moves to send him back after Miguel reminds him that he can’t stay much longer, he doesn’t promise to visit Miguel next year and instead voices the hope that Miguel will die soon. Whether or not Ernesto not being apprehensive over Miguel watching violence in the old movies is a gray area as we don’t know if Miguel said that he had already watched them or something
You take the time to know Ernesto, he fooled Miguel by pretending to be good, he killed his best friend and stole his fame. And all that with an excellent work from the actors, See? Was that hard?
When i first watched the movie I concluded that Hector was Miguel's actual grandfather who was a forgotten musician in the afterlife. My brother was really upset with me for concluding that very fast since he saw the movie before me heh
I'm still enraged that Disney doesn't use the Anderson-Lopez team for more musicals outside of "Frozen" (though I love the franchise). Their work with Pixar only furthers this annoyance.
Me too. I read somewhere that they were asked to write songs for Coco but they were writing songs for the Frozen Fever Short. The only song they managed to write for Coco was Remember Me.
"Coco" was a really interesting movie. What I enjoyed best about this movie is how adventurous it is going through the land of the dead that looks all Mexican-style and that the boy Miguel makes friends with someone who loves music just like him. Of all Pixar films, the best one I've seen is WALL-E; and the worst one I've seen is Brave. Even so, COCO is a very special film in its own way. And in my opinion, it's a lot better than The Book of Life. Some people see The Book of Life very much related to COCO, but I don't. I didn't enjoy The Book of Life very much because it was a little hard to follow and didn't make much sense to me. But COCO told a story that was understandable and heartfelt. After seeing it as a rental on Netflix, it deserved to be added to my collection of Pixar movies that I like.
One thing I didn't like a lot about Ernesto is his characterization before the twists: He's shown to care only about his own fame and recognition and uses Miguel as a prop for this. I would've preferred if Ernesto was shown to be more compassionate and caring for Miguel as he did more to encourage him to pursue his talent for music because it would've made it more shocking when Ernesto does betray him, maybe showing a twinge of regret while he does instead of just being smug about it. He's a great villain and Coco did so many things right but there were still a few things within that movie that kinda bugged me with Ernesto's characterization being one of them
Something I caught a few times after watching this movie, a great way to know that Ernesto was the villain, was the color that surrounded him. Even in the beginning, you see a hint of green. Like the lantern in Tangled. When rapunzel is reunited with mother gothel, the light isn’t a warm color. It was a glooming green. That’s what I noticed later about Ernesto
Pretty big generalization, compadré. Because, even moustache twirling or irredemable(not necessarily in that order and maybe mutually exclusive)type of villains! Anyone else agrees?
Ernesto has even had influence on other films such as the characters "solomon goode" and "nick goode" in the fear street movies (those movies are R rated so if you are still a kid don't watch it) And I just can't help but notice how similar He is to those 2.
Idk why I just noticed Ernesto De aka Cruz is so hard in English , Ernesto from the cross ‼️‼️ I was going to school with these kids and didn’t know they had sauce in they name real shit
I really want him to be the real ancestor of Miguel, just for in the end, Hector giving him the blessing and working cause family is not always blood related
I know it's not exactly Disney, but how about looking back, and maybe talking about a movie wich tried desperately to recapture that Disney renaissance magic? My little pony the movie!
While I definitely grew tired of the cliché twist villains during the twist villain era I will admit that Ernesto and Turbo were definitely the exceptions, probably because they were fleshed out more compared to the others that were more last minute.
i was thinking about how these musicians in the land of the dead could still think up music, but their works will never be seen by living eyes(besides miguel ig)
That’s a poor comparison. I’d understand making that comparison with King Magnifico, but Alma Madrigal is a character that’s never meant to be a villain and is supposed to be anti-antagonist where they have good intentions, but have the wrong idea of handling said intentions and is unaware of the damage abusing intentions is causing on others. Farmer Bean: “You’ve made a BAD comparison, ouranos.official!” (Flicks cigarette and storms off)
In the land of the dead dissapearing from obscurity is actually a double death. I would say that Ernesto died trice. If not, well he's Xibalba's problem now.
Native spanish speaker, sorry but i get triggered each time i hear this, the H is silent, his name is pronounced Ector. Not Jector! EEEEEEECTOR!!! Silent H for Hector! Not JJJJJJJECTOR! Rant over 😊
Can you please do a video about the history and reliance off the Disney trop of relationships between parents and children where the children run away a prove right while the parents prove wrong and how thats becoming a problem with the new films?
I dnd’t like this villain very much. It was a lame twist villain taken from a telenovelas. The fact that a telenovelas was made based on an actual real story is really showing that this twist was unneeded. Also, his revelation was too late, we don’t get to know the villain until that. Coco would have been much more impactful if it didn’t have this lame villain showing up in the last third.
I just wish Imelda and her cuckoo granddaughter: Elena had been villains too. I'm sick and tired of Disney sympathizing with abusive families. I don't care that they saw the error of their ways in the end. Having abusive families is not healthy. It's worse as someone who has Stockholm syndrome for sympathizing with its captor. The way of their redemption seems unnatural and unrealistic. If I were the creators, I would take them away and never being seen again.
Elena and Imelda ARE villains though, they do nothing but antagonize everybody around them for most of the movie. They repent, unlike more traditional villains. Elena though is not just abusive to her family, but to strangers on the streets as well, in a more realistic setting, she would be in jail. At least she's not in the movie enough to make it unbearable, Imelda almost crosses that thin line because she was SO petty that even in death she resented Hector, she never made an attempt to look for him in the land of the dead to know what happened to him, and since it's México, when she was alive she could have rationalized it he was kidnapped or murdered (or both), rather than jump the gun that he abandoned her. Though the catharsis with these type of "villains" is that the people they abuse call them out on their nonsense, Imelda and Elena may not have gotten a harsh punishment they might deserve, but they still wasted their life hating music over nothing, they got exposed for the fools they are, and they are lucky to be forgiven.
@@Juan-zs6jt Not just them, but also other parental scoundrels who are sympathized by Disney, such as Buck Cluck from Chicken Little, Alma Madrigal from Encanto, Ming Lee from Turning Red, and Bernie from Elemental.
@@aidanhever3369 there not villains as they never reach the same level of bad as StepMother , Frollo and Gothal. You complaining about unrealistic is pretty stupid these are animated films and non of them were grounded in reality with Going to the Dead, Turning into Pandas. A living house and Living Elements etc . Forgiving is good and forgiving those people if there sorry is easier than forgiving tyrants. Also you are being way too harsh on Elena as you dont think from her POV. As to me Triton acted worse not only by destroying Ariels collection but his indifference towards a human dieing " One last human to worry about " Elena never not care for a musician to die as she never forbidden her family to help a musician from choking saying "one less no good musician to worry about "
I thibk the content of your videos can be good and observant but sometimes your phrasing is repetetive and even sounds like it could be ai generated, just for having awkward sentence structure that reiterates the same thing over again
The "chorizo" intoxication which Hector thought - as many other people in the world of death - current joke was something that it´s only understood as double-meaning in Mexican Spanish-language culture addressing actually an adult sexual-innuendo joke about he getting choked or intoxicated by a "saussage" and well... the actor which played Hector, Gael Garcia, was so famous when starting his careeer alongside Diego Luna at a movie when both guys realize they´re bisexual and henceforth the idea of them going into guys as well girls is so deep linked to them as bi-icons that well, kinda got connected with the easy queerness of Hector playing Frida and being so emotional and other stuff that was deemed as not so masculine standards back that time at Mexico culture when it was set he was alive (early 20s of past century). I tend to use it as another implied theory that actually Hector was bisexual and Ernesto actually a closeted gay, and well both started together and their friendship turned into romance - and henceforth that´s why the "Poco Loco" song is so neutral addressed as it could be working both on female and male as well - however as Ernesto fame rise up, and he didn´t wanted people guessed on the true connection with Hector he pushed him a bit into Imelda as she approached them, realized how he was the true genius behind all and well loved him and he got was bisexual after all and leave Ernesto for her. De la Cruz got so bittern at heart but worked heavily so he could split Hector from his family later on inspiring him to go in the country road using the money in sake for his family - though he intended to strain him from them and recover him back - ; then Imelda as she guessed the true intentions of Ernesto and knew that her husband was bi somehow got into a very bittern discussion on her fears about the past of him reclaming back, and Hector leave out very hurt on the distrutfullness on her because he also liked guys but that didn´t meant he was gonna desert her in all (and indeed was a very close-conservative view from her to see bisexual people as potential cheaters all time), and well that´s why Imelda choose to have him as lost-forever even before he actually stopped comunicating with his family (though he mostly only communicated with Coco, as she was the key-loved treasure which made him never forget his family even if being so dissapointed on his wife misstrust on him). Neverthless I think indeec Erneston managed to have some private intimate time with Hector after having him drunk at time and easy manipulated which he got so guilty stricken realizing that his wife was so true on fearing that and so... that responsability on never loosing his family was what brought him into the discussion with Ernesto and well he actad as a very toxic ex-lover killing him so if he wasn´t for him, he won´t be for ANYONE ELSE TOO!! (A very cunning and close-passionate plot way for killing him that it´s usually more addressed on spurned lovers and femenine way of killing others.) Ernesto was a great actor and made such a cassanova persona cover for everyone that is was barely known in all - even after being dead - that he wasn´t into girls in all. (Actually several great handsome actors back those times here at Mexico and at the USA on the same time, happened to have deep-closeted times being either bisexual or totally gay, but yet were very prized good-looking ones proving beyond anything how masculinity doesn´t have anything with a specifical sexual preference as it was usually thought before, but then it was indeed a normative view and they have to be very undercovered by that, and well being more manly than the average was another way of self-protection agains murmurations too.) Neverthless Ernesto still kinda liked Hector when he was him again at the Coco events and that was why he got to much fixated on looking his picture with deep-contemplation remembering him when being alive and kinda may have allowed him to keep going on the original path if Miguel returned back, however... it was the boy who ruined all on being smarter than he thought would be and made the connecton of exposure of him, and well... De la Cruz self-preservation instinct and machiavellian ways took the best of him as before and well the only chance to redeem himself got totally losted in a moment.
Another thing to note that Hector mentions every year on Dios Los Muertos, Ernesto doesn’t actually leave the land of the dead, instead choosing to stay and throwing a party and having a concert at the end of the night. Add to the fact that his entire mansion is a tribute to himself, playing scenes from his movies and other things. It subtly shows that Ernesto only cares about himself, that he doesn’t visit loved ones for the the holiday because the only person he cares for is himself. Granted when watching it the first time, I could tell Hector was going to be Miguel’s real ancestor, but the subtle storytelling is still a credit to Pixar and their talent.
Man, Ernesto’s mansion is definitely the embodiment of an egomaniac.
Fr Fr, this is some of Pixar’s best imo. The writing of Coco is superb 🔥
Alternatively the fact that he doesn't visit the land of the living might mean that he can't.
Sure some people admired and respected him and left him offerings and such, but the admiration of fans who do not personally know you if not the same thing as love.
In a day specifically dedicated to family and loved ones it's possible nobody bothers with him,
Is he even ON any ofrendas to give him the capability of crossing over in the first place.
He killed the one person he had a genuine connection with I doubt anybody else is putting his photo on the list of the altar of photos of people that actually love and care about.
People more for him yes but in the way you would mourn a celebrity not the way you would mourn a family member.
And what the photo of a fanboy even count since Hector says that it needs to be by somebody who actually has real memories of you and who knew you while you in life. Miguel might have loved his music but I highly doubt that Miguel knew him so his altar probably wouldn't even count.
you are wrong but he's fully self-centered but if he's right and most of the stuff there is stuff that was left for him as some kind of admiration sacrifice or whatever it makes sense and if he has nobody to go back to why would he cross over when he could just enjoy the fact that he has a bunch of stuff and a whole place set up for him to be himself and do the one thing that he cared about in life doing music for people performing that was the one thing that he cared about while he was alive of course it would be the one thing he would continue to care about after he died. He literally has nothing else.
@@lahlybird895 you might be right that he can’t go back to the living world on that, I will give you that. I just think that even if he had the ability to visit the living world, he would choose not to. He’s a narcissist who loves himself so much that every year on the day of the dead he throws a big party and has a big show at sunrise, all of it to fill up his ego. He might not be able to go to the living world as there might not be anyone who has passed on the memory of him, but even if he could go to the living world, I don’t think he would choose to. For me it’s not a matter of whether he can, but whether he would want to. He’s too self-centered and narcissistic to care for anyone but himself. But I like your theory and it sounds interesting.
Part of Coco's charm is that even if you see the twist coming, it doesn't ruin the movie for you.
The real twist was the purpose of the song, anyway. And that wasn't just a twist for the sake of a twist, it had a deep meaning that gave the movie its entire heart.
One thing to note is that, besides the publicity, the reason Ernesto just accepted that Miguel was his grandson was probably because, being as famous and selfish as he is, he’s definitely the kind of person to have kids he doesn’t know about.
I watched this movie so many times and I always just assumed that was the case. It just seemed fitting for his character. He had this charismatic personality on the outside but selfish on the inside.
Yeah, on multiple rewatches, I imagine him thinking: which one of those dancers did I knock up? 😂
This was my thought too, Ernesto definitely would have heirs in the living world who either don't know or do but either don't care or weren't made legitimate so they don't have access to his estate.
Plus, how many people live on earth long enough to meet their great-great-grandkids? Three generations sometimes, but four? That's usually too many.
@Joe-rz3fd Exactly, my great-grandmother lived to be 102. She got to meet the 3rd generation of her grandkids before passing away.
What I love about him is that he’s a villain that can actually happen in real life. Murdering a friend and stealing his ideas is something that has probably happened. It’s an incredibly evil and raw depiction of evil
It most likely already happened
That makes him realistic.
Nah, it already happened. Instead of ideas, someone murdered a friend to steal a baby.
Ironically, the more the living tries to forget Ernesto, the more he’s going to be remembered, but no longer as “the greatest musician of all time”, but now as the murderer and fraud that he secretly was. Also, his albums and films still exist too, so just forgetting him isn’t going to erase any evidence of his existence back in the living with those albums and films and merchandise. So he’s basically trapped forever in the Land of the Dead being unable to cross the Marigold bridge since none of his fans will put his photo on any of their ofrendas and being unable to succumb to the Final Death since he’s now an infamous murderer with the same reputation as Charles Manson, John Wilkes Booth and Adolf Hitler.
( spanish )
Cómo diría raiden: " hay destinos peores que la muerte... "
I'm 100% sure there'd still be Ernesto fans out there willing to make offerings with his pics and defend him. Some ppl have no morals, all those ppl you mentioned have fans TODAY
@@heyitsmira17 Oh… God. 🤦♂️
On the other hand, Ernesto never seemed to care to cross the Marigold bridge when he was still in high regard, except maybe to collect his fan's gifts that were piling up in his mansion. He was basically already alone all the time.
Not to mention:
- He can't go back to his old mansion because the guards wouldn't let him in. All those offerings will either go to waste or to someone else.
- He will be shamed wherever he does decide to live, and he can't even live with the community of rejects that Hector lived with because... well, they all hate him now!
- This all assuming he can even get out from under the bell, where he is currently trapped. He probably can't lift it on his own, he probably can't yell for help, and even if he could, who would actually help him now that everybody knows who he really is?
They say “don’t meet your heroes” and Ernesto is a prime example of why
Amen.
Coco met his hero on his way to meet Ernesto
what your hero is you grandpa
It also makes it even darker when you realize that if hector did not meet Miguel, coco would’ve died and he would’ve been ultimately forgotten. It’s such a tragic thought that he was murdered and forgotten by his family because he was shunned, and the only person that remembers him has Alzheimer’s. It was also his last chance to cross the marigold bridge, so it was truly beautiful that he met his great, great grandson and reunited with his family.
That's why Dante is trying to pull Miguel towards Hector all the time; being Miguel's spirit guide, he knew he had to bring them together.
I love the ending where Miguel stimulates Coco's mind through music she knew from childhood.
You know why? Because it actually works. I know that because I had my mind stimulated after a traumatic brain injury through music I knew from childhood. VeggieTales songs to be exact.
@@Joe-rz3fdAre you fine now?
Another clue is the petal Ernesto holds never glows when he starts to give his blessing like it does when Miguel’s family gives theirs…also Hector has a gold tooth like the guitar
I love the detail with the petal, because it should be a dead giveaway, but it then distracts you from it by having Hector interrupt
I remember before watching the film, I had guessed Hector was related to Miguel and not Ernesto. Saw it coming miles away… but I still felt a big impact. How? Because they cared about writing the reveal to make sense, make it feel like a betrayal not just for Miguel but for us as the audience, and building it up little by little. Ernesto is even presented as a thematic contrast to what Miguel learns throughout the film and Hector already knew.
Ernesto only caring about seizing his moment left him rotten, alone, and in the end forgotten. Hector on the other hand got his family back and was remembered, cause he knew family was what mattered most. The people who cherish and love others will forever be immortalized and remembered, and those only caring for themselves and material things like fame and fortune are forgotten. That’s quality writing right there imo, especially for an antagonist 👍
That is similar to my reaction. I initially saw a poster with Miguel and Hector on it. I assumed, “shabby skeleton and little kid? Day of the dead motif? This has to be a story about a romp through the afterlife with an ancestor.” I got super excited for the movie.
When I saw the trailer later and saw they were calling the Ernesto the kid’s ancestor, I got disappointed and didn’t watch it for years.
Later, through internet pop culture osmosis, I learned I was originally correct in assuming Hector was the ancestor.
It’s now my favorite movie. I had a grandfather who would sing to me when I was a little kid (Waylon Jennings “Amanda”) and he passed away when I was young, and I first saw the movie a few months before my grandma passed away. Coco speaks to me on so many levels.
It also helps that the ancestor thing comes after it's revealed what Ernesto did to Hector. That twist was basically a red herring.
I usually spot this kind of twist but I didn't suspect Hector because 1) he looked broader in the photo and 2) the way he was dressed, I thought he was a deliberate Tom Sawyer style character.
No, Ernesto was not forgotten and will probably be never be forgotten for a looong time. He is a celebrity, eveb when people found out his true colors and hated him, they are still in their memories. So he wont fade away, but he will be stuck in that bell.
It’s doubtful Ernesto will ever be forgotten, and honestly, his reputation probably won’t even take much of a hit. Imagine if today, some kid said that his great grandfather was murdered by Elvis, with no evidence. How many fans do you think Elvis would lose?
We don’t even have to imagine a hypothetical, we have a real life example. Think of all the allegations made against Michael Jackson. There’s a lot more evidence for what he did than for what Ernesto did, and Jackson is still near universally beloved.
I think the thing that makes Ernesto good twist villain is the fact that his reveal as a villain doesn't change his character and all what we knew about him before he turned out to be murderer still make sense and still works. Because one of the main problem with twist villains is that usually we get them pretending to be good guy whole movie but in the end revealing the fact that the whole time they were completely different person, so everything we knew about this character was just lie.
But with Ernesto it's different. He remains the same character through all story, from the moment he seemed to be a famous musician, good role model, Miguel's grandfather and etc, to the moment he turned out to be narcissistic cruel man, who killed his best friend and was ready to kill his grandson just to become and remain popular. His big reveal doesn't change the person he is, it changes the way we look at him
Ernesto De La Cruz is pretty dark and scary too cause first time watching I did not expect that twist
I was simply expecting that it was just going to be that he wasn't who Miguel thought he was, but the actual reveal made it so much better.
Ernesto works really well as a twist villain because up until he betrays Miguel he has no reason to be evil toward him: he just found his great great grandson who also want to be a musician and is super famous. He was completely willing to send him back with his blessing and only turned when his lies were in danger of being exposed. Ironically it would’ve been found out soon enough as Ernesto’s blessing wouldn’t have worked as he wasn’t one of Miguel’s family, though most likely just Ernesto thinking he was a fraud, but it could’ve been more interesting for Miguel, confused at why it isn’t working, show Ernesto the picture and Ernesto recognizing the guitar and realizing he was Hector’s descendant. But no matter how you slice it, he was an excellently crafted villain. More than that, this movie was so beautiful, and there are parts that still make me cry to this day. Disney, more of this: creative works with strong writing, wonderful emotional moments and timeless themes of family. And no identity politics, please!
When Ernesto said "I give you my blessing" the leaf isn't glowing 😅
No identity politics?
What exactly do you mean by that considering this movie involves around Mexican culture
@@lahlybird895 he totally didn't mean that. People like him (and me) in fact praise cultural differences in Disney
@@IAmTheEagleHTM well that's why I was asking to clarify its a slightly vague statement that could have multiple meanings which in this particular context is slightly confusing
@@lahlybird895 fr it made me so confused. The best movies to come out recently of Pixar were all about it lol
THANK YOU for acknowledging that Ernesto didn't die from the second bell falling on him!
Not enough people realize how horrible his punishment really was. He got trapped under a giant bell. It's a tiny cell. It's pitch black. Nobody can see or hear him. He's in solitary confinement. To make matters worse, he's already traumatized by the fact that the bell is what killed him in life. At least the walls of his cell can make music to entertain himself, although it makes the entire cell vibrate when he does so.
Even if he could escape, he couldn't go back to the only (after)life he ever knew. Everyone who was at the concert knows the truth by now, and by the time he gets out they will have spread it to the entire land of the dead. Ernesto will be universally hated wherever he goes. He can't even escape to what was once his own mansion, because his guards will know what he did. Nor can he escape to what was once Hector's community, because he would have told them all what's going on by this point.
And when he tries to escape to the Land of the Living (remember, he wasn't there to see Miguel leave), he will be in for a huge shock when he can't even get past security. And even if he could get back to earth, he would realize that his only fans left are the kind of people who defend Hitler. He could maybe get a few gifts from them, but nothing compared to what he had before.
And all this is made so much worse when you realize that every moment of Ernesto's music career was spent trying to prolong his existence in the Land of the Dead.
Another clue is thinking about who Mamá Imelda is like as a person. She is clearly the one in charge and she would never be charmed by someone like Ernesto. After the reveal when we actually see them interact, it's so clear because their stage chemistry is so bad with them each fighting for power (and the picture).
Whaaat I was so focused on Hector and Ernesto I completely forgot to think of how Mama Imelda would’ve felt.. I love the new perspective 😭
Fun detail that I've never heard anyone mention about this movie:
Near the beginning, Hector greets the artist Frida Kahlo with "Hey, sissy!"
Frida Kahlo was a real life Mexican artist who lived in the early 20th century.
Her husband's name was Diego Rivera.
Hector's last name is also Rivera.
Therefore, it is entirely possible that Diego is Hector's brother, which would mean that Frida is Hector's sister-in-law.
(Which also means Miguel was, as he suspected, related to a famous artist.)
Or having a similar last name to a famous Mexican artist could just be a coincidence.
The law of conservation of detail would suggest otherwise
One thing that was good too was that it had been a while since we had gotten a villain who was just striaght up bad. Not everyone needs a tragic backstory or a morally grey reasoning, sometimes they're just yucky.
And the thing that makes it even greater is that the message, that "seize your moment" thing, works pretty well both ways, you can see it as an incentive to be great, creative and a beautiful person, but also to be self-absorbed and cruel.
That's what makes this movie so outstanding to me: That first you think it will be the same "be true to yourself, no matter what everyone else thinks" kind of story that we have already seen so many times, and then, they flip it just on the head, and yet the core message doesn't change, what changes is how you interpret it. It can be great advise, and it can be terrible advise, what matters is what you make of it.
He does have a backstory, it’s just not pushed in your face.
The implication is that Ernesto, like Hector, grew up poor and was trying to get out of his small town and find fame as a musician. The difference between them is that Hector had a wife and a family whom he missed and wanted to return to, while Ernesto had only himself, and was so desperate to escape his circumstances that he was willing to resort to theft and murder. All of Ernesto’s grandstanding is a front to disguise his insecurity over the fact that deep down, he was once a nobody, and if anyone ever found out the truth, he would go back to being a nobody.
If Hector's family didn't ban misic, they would have found out the truth about Ernesto a long time ago due to the songs and would have also notice the guitar Ernesto was holding. The guitar was Hector's. He would have been exposed.
And Mama Coco wouldn't have had dementia -- or at least she would have been able to manage it much more effectively.
I know that's scientifically accurate because it happened to me. I suffered a severe brain injury and was unable to talk for a few days, but I got it back by listening to VeggieTales songs I knew from childhood and lipsynching the words.
@@Joe-rz3fd
You're right.
The music ban did more harm than good.
Music really helps people. Hector's family really had no idea what they were doing.
Not only this act let Ernesto getting away with it for decades, but was also causing Coco dementia.
@@Joe-rz3fdi heard this one guy lost his memory from a car crash but it returned from seeing his cousin reinact a Sonic meme he made with some sonic toys.
It's sad future Disney can't make these villains anymore :(
I disagree they can do it
They can it's just they need good writing for some villains and most writers these days are bad at writing
And we have helicopter parents overreacting about villains being too scary for kids
To be fair, this is Pixar, so different writers/goals/viewpoints for creating stories.
The Owl House will disagree on that.
Disney has potential. But the problem is that their movies are being made not by artists but by boardroom executives
Ernesto not knowing he had a great great grandson yet still accepting the possibility that he did just goes to show how many people he had relations with. It hints that, in classic rich celebrity fashion, he treated people as disposable objects for his own benefit and never really cared about anyone other than himself.
Ernesto is the best Disney villain of the new era, and he's Pixar.
disney villain but disney doesnt have villains anymore (except for wish but we arent going to talk about that one
I always did kind of find it silly that Ernesto was exposed for his actions when Miguel returned to the living. There is no way that a child and an old woman who had dementia, who come from a family who blatantly hates music, were able to convince an entire town of the history of Ernesto and Hector.
They were probably only able to prove Ernesto’s songs came from Hector via the letters he wrote Coco, and the fact that Cruz never credited him would paint the musician as a fraud in some peoples eyes.
It’s incredibly unrealistic. And I get why they did it (“You successfully exposed a murderer and thief to your family, but the vast majority of people still see him as beloved figure” is a bit heavy for a kids movie), but yeah, there’s no way most of the town, let alone the massive legions of Ernesto’s fans (which span multiple generations) are going to take the word of a kid without any hard evidence over that of their mega-idol.
@@tommyl.dayandtherunaways820well they had letters that hector wrote for Coco with the lyrics to the songs plus a picture of Hector with the iconic guitar
(ik im a bit late) but you could also tell that Ernesto was more about the fame and popularity more than his family like Hector is because of how they sang Remember Me. Hector's is more lower and softer while Ernesto's is cheerful and upbeat. Ernesto clearly didn't know the meaning of the song so he sang it to either portray it as directed to a lover or to his fans but Hector wrote it for Coco. In my opinion, that shows enough who's more focused on what; Ernesto is focused on his fame and Hector is more focused on his family
Ernesto was such a great villain on his own as twist-type that even shocked so hard on the audience specially here at Mexico on several old-aged ones which actually were enjoying a lot how he resembled several great old B&W era of movies´s starts back here in Mexico, specially Pedro Infante and Jorge Negrete (which both appeared on scene aside De la Cruz), and well they were known to portray great heros and never barely played villains in all (Negrete at much played antiheros), so when they saw him being the villain who fooled everyone and being so cruel with Miguel and Hector and everyone, the old-people were so astonished and broken-hearted of that twist comparing aghast how the real references never ever indeed played proper villains and so then they totally realized he was a total complex different character than just a simple hommage for their idols when younger. So much stricking well done was Ernesto and the whole movie back then at Mexico indeed - it lasted 3 whole months from late October to early January and even the next year for Dia de los Muertos/Day of the Dead Ones anniversary it got relaunched AGAIN, and it´s so cherished and admired here because the Pixar team did just a wonderfull work on Mexican society not just on their traditions but actually their current day of living, which it was sensed so much wholesome real and true than a lot of idealized and stereotypical views of the country coming from foreign movies - even Guillermo Del Toro "The Book of Life" from a few years earlier was much using stereotypes and odd idealizations of the country regardless than actually Del Toro is born and grew up in Mexico, but kinda made a more stereotypical and cliched movie than what the Coco producers made, so Mexican people loved it a lot and felt honored with that.
the fact that they added a Murder Mystery into this movie makes Ernesto De La Cruz a way more darker villain when you realize.
That's why they couldn't use Infante or Negrete as the big idol for Miguel and had to invent a new one. Nobody would have forgiven them if they turned and ACTUAL Mexican idol into a villain.
@@DoloresLehmann makes sense and neverthless still some people acknowledged the hommage resemblance-references to both of them - though later on it´s clearly stated is none of them - and well some old ladies were very shocked when the twist happened because indeed the original heroic references for them got such a constrast with a villain, Pixar neverthless knew how to make proper twist-villains.
I adore this movie and the twist really did take me off guard the first time I watched it. I think the reason why is because the traits of Ernesto are so cleverly laid out so that they're doubled-edged. Ernesto is a fan of the spotlight and shows Miguel off to everyone. At first, it seems like it's because he wants to celebrate his long lost family member, but in reality it's all a publicity stunt and a way to get the audience on his side even more even though he doesnt acrually care. As you said, Ernesto is also extremely dedicated to his music and image, which makes him seem ambitious and heroic that he left his family to follow his dreams; but in reality it's because he wants fame and fortune to the most selfish degree, to the point where he's willing to sacrifice his best friend and co-creator of the music.
It's so much better than Hans, who I think is the worst twist villain. Ernesto is set up as a fame-hungry man, but we're willing to overlook it because we think Miguel finally found his family. With Hans, there's no indication that he's going to be the villain. He's very sweet to Anna, willing to help when things are tough, and really never shows any sign of duplicity. I guess it's the passive mention that he's basically last in line for the throne and will never get it, but that's basically a throwaway line and it doesn't seem to bother him. They even retcon it in the Broadway musical so that it's a bigger deal to him and is played up more to the audience. The best twist villains lay breadcrumbs for the audience to follow, making the second watchthrough a completely different experience as you sus out all the small details. The worst are the ones that you rewatch and can't see any indication of what's to come. It makes it seem like the writers are either a. Lazy, b. Unsure of what they want, or c. Haughty because they think they pulled a fast one on the audience even though they gave no chance for the audience to solve the mystery. Honestly, Coco and Wreck It Ralph are lightning in a bottle for this trope that I don't think we'll get back for a very long time.
Yup. The issue with Hans seems to be that Elsa was originally supposed to be the villain of Frozen (as the movie is very loosely based off of The Snow Queen, with Elsa being based off the evil Snow Queen herself). I mean, seriously? “Let it Go” is a stereotypical villain song. But somewhere along the line (probably late in the screenwriting process), Disney decided that a redemption story for Elsa would work better, and decided to make Hans into a twist villain. That’s why it’s so jarring-it was a very late addition to the story. Twists don’t really work unless the twist is thought about throughout the writing of the story. The author needs to leave a breadcrumb trail that is subtle enough that the reader/viewer/game player can easily miss it at first but obvious enough that after encountering the twist, the reader/viewer/player isn’t angry at the writers for the deception, but laughs at oneself, wondering why they didn’t see it coming.
I feel like the unspoken subtext with Hector and Ernesto is that they’re the same character archetype. They both wanted to escape their small town and become famous musicians. Their mutual love of music is what made them friends. However, they diverge at a very critical point: when given a choice between fame or family, Hector chooses family, and Ernesto chooses fame. We can also infer that since Ernesto was much more of a playboy, he didn’t have a stable family like Hector did. He allowed his passion for music to be consumed by his ego and his desperation to become “somebody”, to the point where he was willing to betray the one real friend he had left.
I personally think a cool idea for future videos would be what if rewrites for films that had so much potential but were wasted, like for me being Ralph Breaks the Internet, Frozen II and Wish.
I think you can bring in concepts from the art books that can work.
Examples being:
Ralph Breaks the Internet exploring the concept of video games and travelling to a steam train hub which they could go into any game they want and having an actual villain.
Frozen II: By having Anna developing powers of empathy while realising that she is linked to an element as much as Elsa is to water. Also having the deer spirit integral to the story.
And Wish: Asha already being the king's apprentice but is in a deep conflict between where was told what she could be vs what she actually be if she explored her potential, also giving her a compassionate side towards the people for all selfless reasons.
I think that would be neat.
When I saw Coco for the first time, I had a strange feeling that something wasn't right about Ernesto being Miguel's great-great Grandfather, and when they finally meet at the party, the *_feeling_* that something was wrong still wouldn't leave me.
And then when that plot twist was revealed that Ernesto was a murderer and got rid of Miguel, I was like
"I KNEW IT! I KNEW THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH HIM!"😤
Plus my mind was so focus on figuring out about Ernesto, that I didn't took the time to realize that Hector was Miguel's REAL great-great Grandfather all along, I should've known sooner, but again I was so focus on the story and characters in the present moment, that I blinded myself from seeing that the answer was right there all this time.
Nonetheless I was happy with the heartfelt surprise of Hector being Coco's father and Miguel's REAL family, it made me love the movie even more❤
My sister was the opposite; she called the Hector twist but not Ernesto being a fraud and murderer.
Your right. When I watched Coco in theaters I kinda questioned Ernesto about being a good role mode after Miquel believed him to be his great great grandfather. Since he was said to abandon his family. What I also like about Ernesto Da La Cruz being a twist villain is it also represents the hard truth that some famous people and politicians are not who they say they are. A very hard truth for a kids movie.
De la Cruz is a perfect villain, and Coco is a perfect movie!!
This was sadly John Lasseter's last film he ever produced at Pixar before being wrongly terminated from his job! But I guess one could say he went out with a bang on this one!
i mentioned on your wreck it ralph video that a villain like hans could work if it was done in a way that made hints/made it more clear that the character was only helping the protagonist as a way to serve themsleves, and i think ernesto de la cruz is a good example of that, like the opposite of hans in quality of a twist villain, the good actions they do for miguel are done in situations that help him become more popular/respected. kid falls into pool? jump in and save him! even if skeletons cant drown(presumably) it would still make him look good. finds out he has a great great grandson who is alive and in the afterlife with him? parade him around and show him to everyone to gain more popularity. the child hes been parading around ends up finding something out that could jeopardize his public image? throw the child into a cave with no possible escape for them
I'd like to point out that Miguel's family would've recognized him because they visited their descendants every year for the Day of the Dead, and since Earnesto never left the Land of the Dead to visit anyone it makes complete sense that even with him as a red herring candidate for Miguel's great great grandfather, he wouldn't recognize Miguel like the rest of the family who have visited him his whole life would.
Even Hector didn't recognize he was related to Miguel on sight and it's because he had never been back to the land of the living to have ever seen him prior to meeting him in the land of the dead
Ernesto de la Cruz made a movie where he reenacted the cold blooded premeditated murder of his best friend THAT HE COMMITED down to the smallest detail - But could only handle doing so by casting himself as the victim. Because that's how he viewed himself and that is some effed up villainous shit right there.
He was hungry for fame and took the life of his friend. Basically if frozen could pull yhe trigger on anyone losing their life after the backstory
I gotta say, I did not expect that twist but it’s a great one
I think you should cover Disney cartoon characters as well. They're just as important as the movie/legacy characters too.
Him and Stinky Pete are the greatest Pixar Twist Villains...
I was in the theaters when I saw this movie...
The reveal was🔥
I do wonder how they convinced Ernesto's fans who were still living that this kid actually visited the land of the dead and learned this dirty secret to turn even the living fans against him 😂 I'm not saying skipping this makes it a bad movie, but that it is a big question they never answer cause it was in the epilogue
iirc, coco still had original papers containing lyrics of "remember me", and that was released into the public, also the photo of hector with the guitar
I doubt it. Miguel has no hard evidence. It’s his word against one of the most beloved musicians in Mexico
Imagine if some kid said that his great-grandfather was murdered by Elvis, but doesn’t have any proof. How many fans would Elvis lose?
One of the subtle hints i like regarding Ernesto's character is at the very beginning of the movie. When he sings, "know that i'm with you the only way that i can be," he winks at the audience. He is constantly with us in the only way he can be: disengenuously, as a con man, and a liar.
Coco is such a good movie fr
I love that the most key thing about AMAZING twist villains is their tone, a good twist villain NEVER actually changes personality only their attitude towards the MC when they are now in their way. Disney recently has failed to address this whether it be Zootopia or Frozen where the villains do a full 180, unlike King Candy or Ernesto, they stay the EXACT same throughout the whole film, its only when the MC finally realizes that they are not a good person do they actually change their ways and tactics.
Another clue is when Ernesto tells Miguel something like, “One can’t deny who he is meant to be.” My mom said, “That’s not a good message for kids!” Villians usually give bad advice to child characters so it makes sense for Ernesto’s status as a bad guy.
Another clue is Hector changes a dirty word for a tame one in ‘Juanita’ when he remembers that Miguel is there and can hear him; when his friend protects the word change Hector replies ‘there are children present’.
Hector also shows concern for Miguel and tries to return him to his family when he learns that Miguel has family looking for him.
Ernesto on the other hand is in absolutely no hurry to get Miguel back to the Land of the Living and only moves to send him back after Miguel reminds him that he can’t stay much longer, he doesn’t promise to visit Miguel next year and instead voices the hope that Miguel will die soon.
Whether or not Ernesto not being apprehensive over Miguel watching violence in the old movies is a gray area as we don’t know if Miguel said that he had already watched them or something
A very subtle foreshadow is Ernesto having a cleft chin, something no one in the Rivera family possesses
You take the time to know Ernesto, he fooled Miguel by pretending to be good, he killed his best friend and stole his fame.
And all that with an excellent work from the actors,
See? Was that hard?
When i first watched the movie I concluded that Hector was Miguel's actual grandfather who was a forgotten musician in the afterlife. My brother was really upset with me for concluding that very fast since he saw the movie before me heh
This is in my opinion the last truly great Pixar movie and it’s about to be ten years old in less than 2 years
*less than 4
I think Soul was great too but I prefer the old ones
This movie was pretty good!
The twist, and the fact that "Remember me" srsly made me cry .
I'm still enraged that Disney doesn't use the Anderson-Lopez team for more musicals outside of "Frozen" (though I love the franchise). Their work with Pixar only furthers this annoyance.
Me too. I read somewhere that they were asked to write songs for Coco but they were writing songs for the Frozen Fever Short. The only song they managed to write for Coco was Remember Me.
The team wrote songs for the 2011 Winnie the Pooh movie, and Findkng Nemo the musical stage at Disney’s Animal Kingdom.
@@FarahA27 Did one affect the other? FF only had one song and was made two years before "Coco."
He is a prefect and well written villain to hate.
Ernesto De La Cruz = Scar + Syndrome + Charles F. Muntz + Lord Shen
i love the twist and sweet message of the movie
I remember thinking this guy was all this and all that, and then he’s revealed to be the real deal
"Coco" was a really interesting movie.
What I enjoyed best about this movie is how adventurous it is going through the land of the dead that looks all Mexican-style and that the boy Miguel makes friends with someone who loves music just like him. Of all Pixar films, the best one I've seen is WALL-E; and the worst one I've seen is Brave. Even so, COCO is a very special film in its own way. And in my opinion, it's a lot better than The Book of Life.
Some people see The Book of Life very much related to COCO, but I don't. I didn't enjoy The Book of Life very much because it was a little hard to follow and didn't make much sense to me. But COCO told a story that was understandable and heartfelt. After seeing it as a rental on Netflix, it deserved to be added to my collection of Pixar movies that I like.
One thing I didn't like a lot about Ernesto is his characterization before the twists: He's shown to care only about his own fame and recognition and uses Miguel as a prop for this. I would've preferred if Ernesto was shown to be more compassionate and caring for Miguel as he did more to encourage him to pursue his talent for music because it would've made it more shocking when Ernesto does betray him, maybe showing a twinge of regret while he does instead of just being smug about it.
He's a great villain and Coco did so many things right but there were still a few things within that movie that kinda bugged me with Ernesto's characterization being one of them
I don’t think so, because it shows that through and through, Ernesto was a selfish prick, in life and in death.
I’m pretty sure they just left him under the bell in the land of the remembered.
No, because remember, Miguel stole his guitar from his grave
Ernesto Del La Cruz, is the top 5 greatest Pixar Villains...
He standing their what Stinky Pete & Hooper....
the only real flaw is why he didn't just rip up the photo
It would be pointless even after he did because Coco has the missing part of the main picture
Ernesto is a true example of the saying “never meet your heroes.”
I learned that from this film.
Something I caught a few times after watching this movie, a great way to know that Ernesto was the villain, was the color that surrounded him. Even in the beginning, you see a hint of green.
Like the lantern in Tangled. When rapunzel is reunited with mother gothel, the light isn’t a warm color. It was a glooming green. That’s what I noticed later about Ernesto
a fantastic movie through and through, story, message, characters and all
Pretty big generalization, compadré. Because, even moustache twirling or irredemable(not necessarily in that order and maybe mutually exclusive)type of villains! Anyone else agrees?
Next you should totally cover various Disney Channel villains because they're actually evil unlike in their movies
That plot twist blew me off my chair.
Ernesto has even had influence on other films such as the characters "solomon goode" and "nick goode" in the fear street movies (those movies are R rated so if you are still a kid don't watch it) And I just can't help but notice how similar He is to those 2.
De la Cruz was a very famous man. He most likely wouldn't know whether any of the fans he'd slept with ended up pregnant.
Idk why I just noticed Ernesto De aka Cruz is so hard in English , Ernesto from the cross ‼️‼️ I was going to school with these kids and didn’t know they had sauce in they name real shit
Remember when Disney had villains? ah, good times
One of my family members was an actor in the movie. And I love the movie so much it’s so great 😁
Wow a twist villain so creative
The fact there was a teory Ernesto was gay its crazy
suchh a nice video
I really want him to be the real ancestor of Miguel, just for in the end, Hector giving him the blessing and working cause family is not always blood related
I know it's not exactly Disney, but how about looking back, and maybe talking about a movie wich tried desperately to recapture that Disney renaissance magic? My little pony the movie!
See there are good twist villains
While I definitely grew tired of the cliché twist villains during the twist villain era I will admit that Ernesto and Turbo were definitely the exceptions, probably because they were fleshed out more compared to the others that were more last minute.
low key the twin uncles goated
and he was fine too 😂
Fun fact in the Spanish dub Ernesto de la Cruz is voiced by Marco Antonio Solis el buki.
i was thinking about how these musicians in the land of the dead could still think up music, but their works will never be seen by living eyes(besides miguel ig)
A perfect villain. What Encanto unfortunately lacked.
Yeah, I'm looking at you, Abuela Alma.
That’s a poor comparison. I’d understand making that comparison with King Magnifico, but Alma Madrigal is a character that’s never meant to be a villain and is supposed to be anti-antagonist where they have good intentions, but have the wrong idea of handling said intentions and is unaware of the damage abusing intentions is causing on others.
Farmer Bean: “You’ve made a BAD comparison, ouranos.official!” (Flicks cigarette and storms off)
Alma is an antagonist, not a villain
In the land of the dead dissapearing from obscurity is actually a double death. I would say that Ernesto died trice. If not, well he's Xibalba's problem now.
Bob Iger never left
Native spanish speaker, sorry but i get triggered each time i hear this, the H is silent, his name is pronounced Ector. Not Jector! EEEEEEECTOR!!! Silent H for Hector! Not JJJJJJJECTOR! Rant over 😊
❤❤
Wooooooooooooooo
Can you please do a video about the history and reliance off the Disney trop of relationships between parents and children where the children run away a prove right while the parents prove wrong and how thats becoming a problem with the new films?
I dnd’t like this villain very much. It was a lame twist villain taken from a telenovelas. The fact that a telenovelas was made based on an actual real story is really showing that this twist was unneeded.
Also, his revelation was too late, we don’t get to know the villain until that.
Coco would have been much more impactful if it didn’t have this lame villain showing up in the last third.
NO MUSIC 👹
ong
I just wish Imelda and her cuckoo granddaughter: Elena had been villains too. I'm sick and tired of Disney sympathizing with abusive families. I don't care that they saw the error of their ways in the end. Having abusive families is not healthy. It's worse as someone who has Stockholm syndrome for sympathizing with its captor. The way of their redemption seems unnatural and unrealistic. If I were the creators, I would take them away and never being seen again.
Elena and Imelda ARE villains though, they do nothing but antagonize everybody around them for most of the movie. They repent, unlike more traditional villains. Elena though is not just abusive to her family, but to strangers on the streets as well, in a more realistic setting, she would be in jail. At least she's not in the movie enough to make it unbearable, Imelda almost crosses that thin line because she was SO petty that even in death she resented Hector, she never made an attempt to look for him in the land of the dead to know what happened to him, and since it's México, when she was alive she could have rationalized it he was kidnapped or murdered (or both), rather than jump the gun that he abandoned her. Though the catharsis with these type of "villains" is that the people they abuse call them out on their nonsense, Imelda and Elena may not have gotten a harsh punishment they might deserve, but they still wasted their life hating music over nothing, they got exposed for the fools they are, and they are lucky to be forgiven.
@@Juan-zs6jt Not just them, but also other parental scoundrels who are sympathized by Disney, such as Buck Cluck from Chicken Little, Alma Madrigal from Encanto, Ming Lee from Turning Red, and Bernie from Elemental.
@@aidanhever3369 there not villains as they never reach the same level of bad as StepMother , Frollo and Gothal. You complaining about unrealistic is pretty stupid these are animated films and non of them were grounded in reality with Going to the Dead, Turning into Pandas. A living house and Living Elements etc . Forgiving is good and forgiving those people if there sorry is easier than forgiving tyrants.
Also you are being way too harsh on Elena as you dont think from her POV. As to me Triton acted worse not only by destroying Ariels collection but his indifference towards a human dieing " One last human to worry about " Elena never not care for a musician to die as she never forbidden her family to help a musician from choking saying "one less no good musician to worry about "
tell me you have mommy issues without telling me
@@aboxinspace my mom is dead now
ernesto de la cruz has to be one of the stupidest characters/villains disney has ever written.
That is what I said
I thibk the content of your videos can be good and observant but sometimes your phrasing is repetetive and even sounds like it could be ai generated, just for having awkward sentence structure that reiterates the same thing over again
The "chorizo" intoxication which Hector thought - as many other people in the world of death - current joke was something that it´s only understood as double-meaning in Mexican Spanish-language culture addressing actually an adult sexual-innuendo joke about he getting choked or intoxicated by a "saussage" and well... the actor which played Hector, Gael Garcia, was so famous when starting his careeer alongside Diego Luna at a movie when both guys realize they´re bisexual and henceforth the idea of them going into guys as well girls is so deep linked to them as bi-icons that well, kinda got connected with the easy queerness of Hector playing Frida and being so emotional and other stuff that was deemed as not so masculine standards back that time at Mexico culture when it was set he was alive (early 20s of past century).
I tend to use it as another implied theory that actually Hector was bisexual and Ernesto actually a closeted gay, and well both started together and their friendship turned into romance - and henceforth that´s why the "Poco Loco" song is so neutral addressed as it could be working both on female and male as well - however as Ernesto fame rise up, and he didn´t wanted people guessed on the true connection with Hector he pushed him a bit into Imelda as she approached them, realized how he was the true genius behind all and well loved him and he got was bisexual after all and leave Ernesto for her. De la Cruz got so bittern at heart but worked heavily so he could split Hector from his family later on inspiring him to go in the country road using the money in sake for his family - though he intended to strain him from them and recover him back - ; then Imelda as she guessed the true intentions of Ernesto and knew that her husband was bi somehow got into a very bittern discussion on her fears about the past of him reclaming back, and Hector leave out very hurt on the distrutfullness on her because he also liked guys but that didn´t meant he was gonna desert her in all (and indeed was a very close-conservative view from her to see bisexual people as potential cheaters all time), and well that´s why Imelda choose to have him as lost-forever even before he actually stopped comunicating with his family (though he mostly only communicated with Coco, as she was the key-loved treasure which made him never forget his family even if being so dissapointed on his wife misstrust on him). Neverthless I think indeec Erneston managed to have some private intimate time with Hector after having him drunk at time and easy manipulated which he got so guilty stricken realizing that his wife was so true on fearing that and so... that responsability on never loosing his family was what brought him into the discussion with Ernesto and well he actad as a very toxic ex-lover killing him so if he wasn´t for him, he won´t be for ANYONE ELSE TOO!! (A very cunning and close-passionate plot way for killing him that it´s usually more addressed on spurned lovers and femenine way of killing others.) Ernesto was a great actor and made such a cassanova persona cover for everyone that is was barely known in all - even after being dead - that he wasn´t into girls in all. (Actually several great handsome actors back those times here at Mexico and at the USA on the same time, happened to have deep-closeted times being either bisexual or totally gay, but yet were very prized good-looking ones proving beyond anything how masculinity doesn´t have anything with a specifical sexual preference as it was usually thought before, but then it was indeed a normative view and they have to be very undercovered by that, and well being more manly than the average was another way of self-protection agains murmurations too.)
Neverthless Ernesto still kinda liked Hector when he was him again at the Coco events and that was why he got to much fixated on looking his picture with deep-contemplation remembering him when being alive and kinda may have allowed him to keep going on the original path if Miguel returned back, however... it was the boy who ruined all on being smarter than he thought would be and made the connecton of exposure of him, and well... De la Cruz self-preservation instinct and machiavellian ways took the best of him as before and well the only chance to redeem himself got totally losted in a moment.