Fantasy Worldbuilding: Weapons & Armor in 4 Specific Settings
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- čas přidán 20. 04. 2021
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Looking at realistic and plausible fantasy world building - how to pick believable weapons and armor for a fantasy setting, using 4 specific settings as examples.
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One reason for shirt cutting weapons or non at all in jugnles shoud also be that there had mostly been not many mineral deposits or in general no capability of working iron well.
Pardon me Matt, I recently watched the video, "Should 18th-19th century OFFICERS have had SHIELDS?", as well as your channel's other related videos about the limitations of early gunpowder firearms which meant melee weapons like pikes, swords and bayonets were still important weapons until the late 19th-century introduced smokeless powder with metallic cartridges.
That made me think about both this video, "Fantasy Worldbuilding: Weapons & Armour in 4 Specific Settings" and these related links below where a Fantasy world co-exists with the scientific and early firearms developments (until the 18th-19th century) of the Human faction(s).
(a) Are Guns REALLY That Overpowered in Fantasy RPGs (DnD etc)?: czcams.com/video/zFXC3JZNnDk/video.html
(b) The World of Tyrrell | Low Fantasy Setting: czcams.com/video/-jbGeLk7DgU/video.html
(c) Gunpowder Fantasy (e.g. like Warhammer Fantasy's Human factions): tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GunpowderFantasy
(d) Gaslamp Fantasy: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GaslampFantasy
"The World of Tyrrell | Low Fantasy Setting" sparked the question. In that video, humanity was the underdog faction compared to the traditional fantasy races such as the elves and dwarves (due to the fantasy races' fantasy attributes)...
Until the scientific developments of humanity (depicted as 19th century to early 20th century levels) closed the gap between humans and the main fantasy races.
How would the Human faction(s) develop melee weaponry and armour when the Fantasy themes of magic and fantasy creatures coexist?
"You want weapons with which you can offend someone from quite a distance away."
Keyboard warriors, your time has come!!
So, we move up from shitposting to completely out of control flame war?
Flamethrowers
The answer is always flamethrowers
"Hans, zee flamenwerfer has offended zee target"
This only works if you are so weak minded that words hurt your feelings.
W.......
S S S
F2 F7 F7 F7 F7 F3 F7 S A A S F2 F7 F7 F4
Yes, it works. 😁
@@krissteel4074
Flame throwers are good , meltas are better.
i always thought that the keyboard throwing contests in russia were a fun, innocent thing. but i see now that they were just preparing for war :p
For the world in darkness scenario, you're guaranteed to have them training hounds or some other animal with a good sense of smell to find the enemy and make a huge racket once they do.
Against a lot of fantasy animals you'd want dogs, against most dangerous modern animals you want dogs. Dogs and humans synergise really really well.
@@rileyernst9086 yes they do, but only in a scenario like ours where humans and dogs evolved together.
@@petarkresimirkrizmanic8206 Being fair, any world with a creature as social, intelligent, and good at hunting as a dog will have human-equivalents trying to train them as quickly as possible. Unless there is a defect in whichever local creature fills that niche which makes them completely inappropriate, we'd give it a red-hot go.
In a fantasy world, your dogs are fantasy dogs. I'll breed my dogs to have magical sensories or abilities.
@@petarkresimirkrizmanic8206 That goes without saying, but you could have a similar type of synergy between different species. Or perhaps even adolescent and fully grown creatures of the same species.
one factor you didn't mention about jungles is the heat. Wearing armor becomes nearly impossible in the tropics. You'll die of heatstroke. This is a big reason tropical cultures used very light weapons and shields, being otherwise mostly naked.
Just PLEASE use at least light clothes if you're not a native of the area. I've seen ennough Private SNAFU training films to know you don't mess around with mosquitos with comically thick stingers.
I think one important thing to keep in mind is that a fantasy setting might also provide additional tools to use. Like, if you have a bunch of massive dinosaurs you might also have plants developing defense mechanisms specifically against those dinosaurs. Plants are very good at adapting to very specific threats and humans on the other hand are good at somehow really getting into the stuff the plants use to defend themselves and typically end up using it as either a spice, herb, medicine or drug. Like, Coffee doesn't contain caffein just so humans can have a lovely drink in the morning, it's a defense against bugs.
So you might, for instance, have plants that defend themselves with pods that release irritant gas on impact which humans might be able to harvest and then use to discourage attacking creatures.
Or say you have fantasy-style salamanders that are capable of bursting into flame if you freak them out. Put one into a clay pot and you got yourself a makeshift molotov cocktail.
Monster Hunter features a lot of nonsense but one of the things I like about it is its creativity in that regard. Beetles that produce a bright flash of light when they die are used to make flashbangs. Throwing dung at a monster will make it temporarily retreat because the stench is confusing it and it wants to clean it off. Using certain monster organs hunters are capable of fashioning pods that produce very loud noises which can stun certain monsters that are particularily sensitive to sound.
One thing that is rarely touched upon (not really too relavent to the video) is the impact magic would have on practical technology. If you had someone who could generate 1,000 degree temperatures from willpower alone who's to say that person can't advance metalurgy into the early modern era?
@@bigredwolf6 Yeah, I mean it depends on the level of magic but if you created something that held the heat well enough you only need magic to start the process. You're also assuming a lot about pride. Building practical tools can make money or keep you in someone's favor. It also doesn't necessarily need to be particularly dramatic. Simply being able to contain some chemicals can boost technology. So levitate? Telekinesis? There's jokes about not letting engineers play wizards in the D&D fandom. Because GMs are cowards.
@@ThaetusZain Dungeon Punk, in a nutshell.
Wizards who could duplicate or better modern metallurgy wouldn't be common blacksmiths making nails and horseshoes - they'd be wealthy and renowned, making the finest weapons, armour, and tools for wealthy elites.
Common metallurgy might evolve faster than it did historically thanks to knowledge gained by those wizards. Perhaps some of the wizards would fill the roll of metallurgists and engineers who design new alloys and improve industrial processes while others do the manual labour.
@@bigredwolf6 Observation. More specifically observation of certain fruit eating animals in the real world. Fermentation happens naturally after all, and there are places where large amounts of fruit fall from trees and ferment naturally. Certain animals have found this and partake liberally. Yes, they literally get drunk. This is not a hypothetical situation either, we have watched it occur. It is not too far a stretch to suggest that early man saw this and thought I want me some of that.
I love that Matt mentioned riding an ogre. An ogre howdah is actually thing in D&D. Goblins with bows and javelins riding it into battle.
He forgot riding mother-in-law to battle...:-D....creature way more terrifying.
Dark world, light can be used as a weapon too. If you are an army adjusted to darkness, having a bunch of bullseye lanterns suddenly opened up and shined on you can blind you pretty effectively.
Yea... but if you're already used to fighting in pitch black darkness being blinded by light wouldn't really change anything.
@@yunggolem4687 Well it won't win a fight, but it could have some usefulness for a brief surprise element. Emphasis on brief though - modern tests with tactical flashlights show even they don't stun you for very long, and I highly doubt any medieval light sources can be as powerful and fast to turn on as one of those barring magic.
@@perrytran9504 If your side was already prepared for the light and you suddenly lit everything such that your side could see, but the other side was briefly blinded it would give you an advantage for sure.
muzzle flash on guns must be a b*tch, especially with black powder
@@yunggolem4687 It would ruin enemy cohesion before you attack.
About additional dragon riders: in the novel series Temeraire/ His Majesty's Dragon, set during napoleonic times, the dragons are crewed by multiple people, a captain, signal officers, gunmen, etc., similar to a ship.
That's one of my favorite series
I dropped down to the comments after the large creatures part just to see if anyone else mentioned this.
yes, it gives in fantastic details how such a fight would work, what people you need to make it happen, what gear they have and how they fight on dragonback and what the impact on the batlefield might be with such a potent force.
@@gerlofwoudstra8341 I loved the new strategies shown in Victory of Eagles
The first thing I thought of as well, and a really cool series of books. I would love to see it adapted to a show or movie.
A long scholagladiatoria Video? The evening is saved!
exactly my thoughts hahahaha
Praise the sun!
Every time Matt promises its going to be brief, i want to yell "i dont *want* it to be brief!".
It's just past 2 pm where I am and I was looking at a miserable lunch break. Then I saw a 37 minute scholagladiatoria video just came out.
if you have an environment that makes the characters blind, you can have a helmet that completely covers your eyes
But then you want to leave your ears exposed so you're not getting weird directional sounds bouncing around your helmet.
@@Zraknul yeah for sure ive thought about it a lot lol cause im goin blind funnily enough
bare with me here, but wouldn't the characters, in an environment that has always been dark, evolve without eyes and rely on other senses or maybe some kind of magic to navigate and then design arms n armor accordingly?
@@petarkresimirkrizmanic8206 then you could still have a helmet that completely covers the front of your face
Whoa!
As you described fighting in darkness, it really struck me that a lot of fantasy dwarves fight in a similar way. Tight formations, heavy armor and shields, often using repeating crossbows or other innovations for ranged combat, etc.
@@bigredwolf6 There are always exceptions to the rule.
@@bigredwolf6 Damn! I got caught in the snare! Guess I'd be useless as a ranger xD
@@bigredwolf6 dont forget about Guenhwyvar
Personally I think that the dark world would be a perfect place for small groups of elite assassins like the Drow, imagine for a sec trying to defend against six or seven Artemis Entaries or worse Zackafein Do Urin ( Dritz’s dad )
@@bigredwolf6 in the dinosaur world imagine an army of dwarven battle ragers with their spiked and serrated armor disenbouling raptors
I've wanted to see something like this from scholagladiatoria for so long.
There was actually another video similar to this one about generic fantasy settings.
@@spiffyracc Yeah. Shadiversity is a great channel if you're into this type of thing.
@@nobodyofimprotance7615 Yes, I am aware of his groundbreaking work on Centaur and Giant weaponry
@@spiffyracc Because of him I'm giving my orcs bows in my book.
Even in a world of giant sauropods, there still would be plenty of species of all sizes to hunt, So we can't rule out traps and small projectile weapons for for small animals, etc.
For forest and jungle environments, you're also going to want something like a machete for cutting paths, and close order combat.
In The Dark Eye RPG, their dwarfs have Dragonslayers, giant spears with razor sharp giant pikes with like 1 meter of tip. Those are used by a team of two dwarves, just like you suggested using against giant creatures. The game even got rules for that.
Hngh, I was nine minutes late with my reply, damn! ;)
Nice I didnt know that. I think the Setting of The Dark Eye is pretty cool but the rules... Was my first RPG but I didnt play it for very long
@@not-a-theist8251 It was my first RPG too. Played it for years! But at some point I got fed up by the complicated rule system. I play a very basic first edition hack now.
I like the QR code, it helps me find the spot to stop skipping the add for Disguised Gambling Game.
I expect videos like this more from Shad, but you're obviously more than capable of making a quality one! If at any point you feel like making another video of this type, just know that you've got a view from me.
I think if you're constantly having to deal with the threat of dragons, dinosaurs and large terrasaurs you're going to find poison weapons very quickly, that and flame weapons, like a simple molotov made from alcohol, grease, ect.
A lot of fantasy creatures are either highly resistant to poisons or flat immune to them so I don't think poisons would become popular
they had firegrenades in the ancient times already
I imagine an army of blind ninjas with walking sticks feeling for each other then beating the snot out of each other.
Seriously, trained birds that screech when at the target, then veer off for arrows. Arrows that whistle so others can hit the same target area.
Moats so you can hear the enemy coming. Purposefully laid leaf/branch beds for alarms. Trained dogs/cats for guiding through such traps and alarms
Did anyone else think of Dwarves when he described the more melee-focussed scenario for the "Dark World warfare" concept?
I don't think that would work. I think formation fighting would be impossible so you'd have a small number of warriors trying to kill each other in loose formation. In that case (if you can barely see), I think staying unseen and unheard would be more important than the protection from armour. An unarmoured man who knows where his opponent is has a huge advantage over the armoured man who doesn't know where his opponent is.
@@Robert399 Fair enough. That's just what I thought of based on what Matt said, but I like the idea of more irregular warfare in a "world of darkness"! 😊👍
@@Robert399 I disagree with that, in a situation where you can't see your opponent coming, you would be at a massive advantage if you could make a circle formation with protection from solid shields all around. You know how in creature movies the humans always end up splitting up and all getting picked off one by one, that's so the movie can happen because very often, if they put their backs to each other's they would be able to see the enemy come and win.
@@raphaelmt1706 If you can't see, how do you tell friend from foe in a melee? If both sides tried to fight in formation, it would just devolve into random butchery. I think harassing or tricking armies that can't (or can barely) see would be far more effective than trying to fight them. Even in the best case scenario, the formation can't do anything to the enemy if they don't attack the formation.
I'm arguing that any group with any kind of military power would develop its own warrior elite of trained dark-fighters, who can easily hunt down (or harass with impunity) anyone who's not similarly trained. They would be the monsters from the horror movie, not the victims. And military conflict would basically come down to fighting between these warriors.
Even if everyone opted to carry light (which I think would be a bad idea because the person with light can be seen from further than they can see), I still think you would have these special dark-fighters as scouts and skirmishers.
I think your point is valid, and I agree that this kind of warrior would definitely be a part of warfare. The reason I think formations would still be useful is because not every soldier is going to be a highly trained special forces operative. I think there would be room for both. Having a tight formation of grunts with basic training would still be effective with the presence of an officer of some kind. It would allow for an army to field a lot more warriors and rely on sheer numbers. Also, in tunnel fighting, you can't really outflank so a shield wall would shine in that situation I think.
Dino world: crewed spears? Look at the original Land of the Lost's "Flyswatter".
Dark world: slingers with clay pots of phosphorescent dye to mark your enemies would be used.
That or slinging jars of flaming oil that shatter upon impact, lighting enemy area upon landing while emiting small amounts of light at first, so it becomes more difficult to first detect. And the bonus of enemies that run around while on fire grants extra light among the confusion amongst the ranks
@@darthlloyd3545 i'd disagree on the flaming oil for the main reason it would destroy your own night vision as well
@@MrTrilbe That is possible if you didn't divert your eyes upon its impact. All in how you use it and the training that comes with it.
@@darthlloyd3545 for a flask of oil that would mean averting your eyes for as long as it and maybe a few people burn, that could be long enough to lose your head, hmm maybe lighting fires behind you would work, force your opponent to look at the light while you look away from it naturally
@@darthlloyd3545 the jars of flaming oil would give away your position before you get to use them; remember that flame requires fuel and oxygen, so the jars would have to be on fire before you throw them. Phosphorescent dye can be easily contained in a jar and no light would escape until after they broke, so your enemies would still be unsure of your position giving you at least two maybe three ranged attacks before your opponent can respond.
“Do you know? Soon migration season for brontosaurus will begin...”
“Ok guys, time to prepare our trebuchet!!”
When it comes to fighting in a completely dark environment id say the best example were the German Celts who faced the Romans in the black Forrest;
They used edged wooden weapons, painted their weapons and bodies black, were taught to be silent, and had a lot of horns/screams/phycological warfare
Also fire bombs like jars of burning alcohol can make great distractions
I fully agree, just...they weren't celts, were they?
@@user-ft3jq5vi2l in the first century Germany was populated with people of the Celtic/Gaelic culture separate from the more famous German Saxon culture
Any other questions?
@@troperhghar9898
Yea, I have, and that's your sources
You for one mentioned the Black forest.
First off, the black forest was roman territory until the Limesfall of 260 ad.
If I'm correct with the assumption that you mean the Limesfall of the the third century with this battle of the black forest, it was instigated by a greater tribe known as the Alemannic tribes.
Those tribes are the ancestors of modern day swabian and swiss people, and it makes absolutely no sense to assume that they are celts.
If you didn't mean the battle of the black forest at all, but instead meant the battle of the teutoburg forest(which didn't happen at teutoburg forest at all, but at a mountain called Kalkrieser)
that battle was instigated by a tribe known as the cerusci in the roman sources. The cerusci were a Rhine-Weser Germanic tribe. Rhine-Weser Germanic tribes were Germanic tribes, with a high Celtic influence in their material culture. However, we know for certain that it was a tribe speaking a Germanic language, not a Celtic one. No serious historian claims they spoke Celtic. I don't know where you got that from.
As for the celts, they have reaches their highest expansion by 275 BC, and we can be almost certain that there were no individual Celtic tribes powerful enough to wage war against Rome in Germania by the time of the Cimbri wars, the first war between Germanic groups and Rome(which happened in a Celtic vassal kingdom of Rome known as Noricum), which happened arounf 100bc. I'm not saying there were no celts beyond the roman border at all, but their presence was limited.
@@troperhghar9898
Also, what the fuck do you mean with more famous German Saxon culture?
Like, the Saxons were a tribe dutchy which formed in the 700s, fell under Frankish rule within the century, participated in a couple Frankish wars, and then basically disappeared by 900 ad, mostly through being absorbed by the Franconians.
What's nowadays called Saxony is a thuringian speaking region, and lower Saxony a Franconian one, which also got only questionable connections with old Saxony.
It's actual influence beyond shattering the thuringian empire for the franks is like nil. It's the most historically unimportant stem dutchy.
And yes, we can be fairly certain that it was Germanic. Tough less certain than with the Cherusci and their allies(from the earlier mentioned battle of teutoburg forest), as there are some people who believe that the Saxons might have developed from a group known as the cannanefaten, a tribe historians aren't shure wether it was Celtic or Germanic.
In the completely dark world, I imagine conventional warfare would eventually become completely ritualised to a point where it's just about showing who is the stronger side rather than starving out the opposing side. This has happened historically between certain peoples in different parts of our own world where maybe resources weren't so easy to come by. I also imagine that stuff like battles are not going to be a thing, since you don't really know who you are hacking at. Non-conventional warfare would probably resemble a lot of what we see today. Small operations to take small targets.
Btw. If weapons develop from hunting equipment, maybe weapons would start to resemble fishing gear, since they sure as day aren't going to be getting a lot of sunlight on their skin.
The jungle scenario sounds like many of those constraints would also apply to close urban environments
Concrete Jungle!
In a dark world, I see armies lighting up large areas of the battlefield to deny them to the enemy and draw them into an area to their advantage.
A big thank you from all of us fantasy world creators! We’re certainly looking forward to more on these kinds of topics! 😃👍
Matt, you're not the only one who's thought that dragons should have more than one person on them for combat. There's a book series called Temeraire that's set in the Napoleonic era where dragons not only exist, but are a part of the world's militaries. In the books, all but the smallest of dragons has a crew of varying sizes, depending on the size of the dragon. Most of the crew are gunners, but I think there are a few other misc. positions as well.
Top men, bell men, various officers, a signal ensign, lookouts, and a ground crew. At least for larger dragons like Temeraire. The couriers only have their rider
Great books, I really enjoyed them when I was younger and read them. The bigger dragons were basically manned like ships... Temeraire was literally the name of a French vessel which was captures during the Napoleonic wars. And the main character was a captain in the English navy before. So yeah.
I know what I'm watching after work!!
"You don't want to light yourself up." Kind of like tracers work in both directions."
I find the prospect of signalling particularly interesting, especially as even though you can tell where a sound is coming from when things are calm, it's extremely hard for the human brain to tell the direction of sound when things are stressful, distracting, or very loud - exactly like any battle. That makes copying enemy signals far more effective than they can ever be on regular Earth. The musician corps effectively becomes signallers and psy-ops combined; you have your own signal corps giving complex orders on very distinctive instruments, with musical trills to identify specific formations before each order, the formation leaders also have a musician with a much simpler instrument acknowledging orders and passing simple contact information, with all complex messages sent by runners. Every formation's officer and adjutant, and the entire musician corps is required to have perfect pitch and good hearing.
Meanwhile, the other half of your signal corps is listening out for enemy signals, with a wagon loaded with all the different types of instrument the enemy may be using, either to blast the same instruments chaotically as the enemy does to disrupt their signals, or if one of your best musicians thinks they've cracked the enemy's patterns, to try and disrupt them. Naturally, if your signals are compromised, or if the enemy signals team is obviously superior to you, you bring out the loudest instruments you can and don hearing protection to try and create such a complex and unearthly racket that nobody on the battlefield gets any musical signals.
At the same time, the light cavalry is on orders to try and locate the enemy musicians behind the lines, because charging them smashes enemy communications, and if you overrun them quickly enough, allows you to take their instruments and compromise their entire force's signals, requiring them to rewrite and retrain all their musical codes.
Night world. Mines under castles were often fought in. Look at the siege of Vienna.
Yeah under ground seems to be the most realistic scenario for that.
Although underground additionally means that you are fighting in very close spaces. Pistols and daggers it is in this case
WW1 had tunnel fighting too, in the Alps.
Btw, there are probably also not many blind fantasy writers, though their stories could be really interesting.
I imagine people in the dark would quickly develop well armored mobile spotlight towers. Just as we use spotlights to aid pursuers of criminals today, they'd have men rotating polished metal mirrors to track as much of the enemy as they can so that missile weapons can be aimed at them.
This was my thought. Though you would need to make sure it is well fortified so it would not be smashed easily by artillery.
@@TesseraCraft I hadn't considered that siege artillery would likely be used against the towers. Assuming trying to protect them from catapults would be futile, perhaps they'd be made less armored, more cheap and numerous. Victory would likely go to the side with the last light tower standing unless they both lost all their catapults. There's an interesting RTS game in there.
@@Svvords I would think flairs would be used often.
A thought pertaining specifically to a circumstance where humans would be in regular contact with dangerous megafauna such as dinosaurs would be that this is one of the few settings where prominently spiked armor is a meaningful utility. In essence, it would be the sea urchin defense: rendering a potential meal very unappetizing to large predators under threat of being exceedingly stabby in the mouth.
I’d push back on the point about having multiple people on a dragon. Their primary weapon is so much more effective than anything a rider could use to the point where they’d serve almost no purpose. Additionally, their primary defense is their flight, any additional weight means less speed, slower maneuvers and less flight time.
Depends on the dragon lore in that universe. You could have dragons that could not breathe fire, or that could not do so in quick succession. Perhaps a line of mounted archers on the dragons back provide defence against other dragons? I would recommend the book series Temeraire. In that universe sett in the Napoleonic wars, dragon's have a full crew with gunner's, armourers, signalmen and so on.
@@sunnmringenriksheim7812 if it's Dungeons and Dragons, the Dragon is probably riding you
You take 16 perching damage
@@sunnmringenriksheim7812 In a scenario where only one side has dragons (uncontested airspace if you will) I could see an argument for carrying extra weight. That being said, I think it’d be much better spent on barrels of gunpowder rigged up as bombs, or using clusters of flechettes like in WWI. Shooting a machine gun with tracers from a moving plane is hard enough, I don’t think you’d hit anything with a bow.
And if it’s contested airspace, you’d be much better off stripping every pound you can. The one who is lighter, faster and higher sets the terms of the engagement and is much more likely to win a dogfight.
@@hybrid_grizzly Perhaps a 30 ton dragon does not get any encumbered from carrying eight rifleman who defend it from lighter more manoeuvrable dragons? Or perhaps it only carries a crew on campaign, but not in combat? My point is that it is the writer who decides, and I think both single dragonrider and dragon crew can work. As we all know: if you can decide the context, you decide all. ;-)
Assuming that you can’t see in the dark, but lived largely in darkness, I’d think that things like lantern pikes & lantern shields would become quite popular. You might also see some development of phosphorescent minerals into types of paint to coat weapons and armor. I imagine glow in the dark or color lamp heralds would be very important for preventing friendly casualties.
It seems to me that historically being seen is more important than not being seen. Accidentally stabbing your king in the dark would I think be a bigger worry than being spotted by an enemy. Lots of lights in the dark might be intimidating, and for dark vision people actually blinding. In a tunnel situation you might not be able to be stealthy anyways since there may only be a few ways to approach an enemy, which no doubt would be fortified.
Looking at how deep sea life has evolved, phosphorescent accents could be useful for communication. However, there should definitely be some care in how you use them since they also give away your position to more than just friendlies - and not all hostile creatures might give away their position with bioluminescence either. One way of getting around this (before watching the whole video) could be lighting multiple lamps or light sources per person - if you lift them up to serve as beacons, this would make it harder for a hidden scout to correctly guess how big your force is and can be a useful deterrent against unnecessary fights.
@@Redshirt214 Good point about friendly fire
In the darkness world, people would throw long range, sling-like, Molotov cocktails to lite up the ennemi.
i d agree. use flares to light areas. or traps to paint bypassers with biolumin liquid-mud may be. Also can use fused molotov grenades explode when hit ground.
In darkness, maybe a whip would be a useful tool or weapon. Not in groups, obviously, but whirling them around gives you decent auditory and tactile feedback about everything in a few meters radius.
I feel like the darkness scenario would result in a lot of friendly casualties
A 'tail gunner' on a dragon would be a good idea: someone sat on its hind quarters shooting arrows as the dragon passes over (and defending against any other dragons attacking from the rear). Don't think I've ever seen or read that.
It's not that great an idea if you don't have fully automatic weapons. Shooting in a 3dimensional environment at a target that is itself moving in 3dimensions, while the shooter is also moving in 3dimensions... that's incredibly difficult to begin with. On top of that, with most pre-smokeless powder weapons, you'll have low velocity and a high arc, meaning you have all the more chances to miss. Not to mention you have your own creature with tons of moving bits you definitely do not want to hit.
What weapon would you use, too? Javelins could have penetration power but not really range, and you can only carry so many. Bows could be quite impractical depending on the firing station, and you have to chose between power and ability to maintain shot. Crossbows (or rifles) would either lack power or rate of shot. Slings would be probably the worst thing you could have on a dragon.
Not that it'd be impossible to score hits ; the first aerial victory of WWI was scored with a revolver after all ; but there is a reason everyone who put gunners on aircraft used high RoF machineguns and not sniper rifles.
The big problem with a "tail gunner" is that the kinetic energy of a projectile fired rearward would be very low. Kinetic energy is proportional to velocity squared, so subtracting the flying speed of the dragon would basically make the arrows useless.
Even with the supersonic muzzle velocity of a machinegun bullet, effectiveness in WWI aircraft proved to be very poor. It wasn't long before everyone went with pure forward facing guns, except for special cases of defending against incoming attacking aircraft (which added their own incoming speed to bullet impact energy). This was despite the engineering challenges of getting machineguns to shoot through a propeller disc.
But for the most part, shooting forward was the way to go, and the best way to attack someone behind you was to have a wingman do it. For example, you and your wingman could be flying side-by-side by some distance. If an enemy appears behind you, you and your wingman turn toward each other. If the enemy chases you, your wingman can shoot right at the enemy.
Bear in mind that without something like a machinegun, you probably need to get really close to hit the enemy. Like, so close that you might as well be using a lance. However, a lance pretty much only lets you get in one hit. A _very_ powerful hit, sure. But you probably want a bow after that lance is used.
Hmm ... actually, maybe you could use some sort of rope-spear. It's a spear you throw a very short distance, but unlike a lance you can use it again and again. And it's small enough that you could lash a couple spares behind you. In any case, you'd want to attack forward.
@@IsaacKuo Wow. I’ve learned a lot here!
The rope spear sounds good. Maybe throwing bombs/potions on ground forces too.
@@IsaacKuo You forget the effectiveness of tail and ball turret gunners on bombers during WW2. All air forces taught their fighter pilots to attack these gunners first in order to clear the way for an attack on the bombers. Attacking enemies would still have to get past the dragon's tail Gunner. I see no reason it would not work.
@@coldwarrior7812 Except they were not so effective, to the point that many bombers lacked them entirely. The bombers which did have them had a bad time of defending themselves. Fortunately, the Allies gained a foothold in Europe, allowing fighters to escort these day bombers all the way to their targets.
WWII was a time when a lot of different things were tried, without solid experience to determine what would or wouldn't work. Long range daylight bombing beyond the range of fighter escorts was, in retrospect, not worth the losses.
regarding flying threats, that's one thing I like about the Warhammer Fantasy aesthetics is they have those iron spikes on the roofs of their buildings. I always imagine burghers being neurotic and assuming if you don't have a spikey roof a manticore is going to swoop down in the night and yank your kids out of their beds and fly off with them... and the fact that such is probably highly unlikely but still theoretically possible adds even more flavor to the setting and the theme of pervasive fear which characterizes the Old World.
In darkness, at least if defending a position from an attack coming from a predictable direction, snares would be really useful, and they could certainly evolve from hunting too.
The darkness thing is interesting. Modern small arms warfare is often at night, and often with no night vision equipment. There is a lot of interesting tactical thought to gather from the doctrines in use for that. Staying in cover, advancing fast, overwhelming simultaneous attack. Tactical use of light. Diversions. Lots more, that is well worth researching.
Matt, in the ninja / ninjutsu arts, darkness is a friend. In a dark world, we'll use warriors who have bonding with canine, feline, or even owl partners. Once the position of prey or enemies are determined, the hunt begins.
"if you cant move very fast you want weapons you can offend people from a fair distance away"
... Twitter?
Harshly-worded letters?
@@InSanic13 and in all capitals 😂
@@bigredwolf6 That grammar offends me. Good job, you bastard.
@@bigredwolf6 if you want to go FULL crazy you NEED to randomly capitalize some WORDS for NO REASON.
Scholagladiatoria just designed a fantasy dwarf army on accident at the end there lol.
In the dark world setting, there might also be an emphasis on wrestling and daggers. Basically trying to grapple the enemy and keep him pinned while you stab him repeatedly. Especially if both/either are wearing heavy armor against those archers anyway.
0:52 Holy crap you just hit me with the Nostalgia hammer.
My 2 bits: spears and bows everywhere.
Large animal mounts: lever-powered machine gun crossbow (see: Jorg Sprave); or, at least, "wall-mounted" chu-ko-nus.
Jungle/hevaily forested: large, heavy, curved knives (kukri, falchion, machete), light basic "crossbows" - for readiness of shot.
Sauropod environment: Once you have the "recipe", black powder is very easy to make. Thus, blunderbuss: with a choice of heavy damage, single shot, or light damage, large area spray shot. Also - there is probably a large supply of potassium from the manure.
Finally, flying mounts: something I always wondered why nobody has thought of, and which I used in many successful DnD battle campaigns: strategic bombing with multiple fist-sized rocks!
Matt, this video was a godsend. I'm a fantasy writer and I was working on my second book today and struggling hard with the culture of a particular subrace of elves that I only hinted at in my first novel. Thanks so much for the brilliant video. Sincerely, a long time fan and amateur fencer. Cheers.
@@bigredwolf6 They essentially are Wild Elves jungle savage esque.
For the total darkness scenario: I think we'd see an increase in support systems. Horns, trumpets, passwords would be wide-spread, as well as ways to create and transport light quickly. Skilled navigators would be absolutely crucial, since it is so easy to get lost in the dark.
I think it would be most plausible to march in darkness and when fighting breaks out, set up fires in the rear and around key points to make beacons for rallying to if things go sideways. It would also be plausible to light up part of the army, say the center, as a bait and then hiding your wings in the darkness.
Another interesting idea would be to light up the enemy. Say, once you've located the enemy, find a way to throw something at them that will burn on the ground for a long time. Maybe large balls of wick or thatch? Or jars of something flammable? Then the enemy's position would be on fire, visible to every archer within a mile and, since they would be standing next to the light sources, the enemy would be pretty much night blind.
Also in general I think smaller, easier to co-ordinate forces would predominate and war would mainly consist of surprise attacks and raids, with big chaotic battles being the rare exception.
Very cool video!
An excellent take on riding dragons is the Temeraire series by Naomi Novik. It's the Napoleonic wars, but with dragons.
They are treated as essentially sentient airborne ships, with a full crew of bombers and gunners and ensigns and officers and everything.
For a battle in darkness, I wonder if they could launch glowing projectiles (like balls of flaming pitch, greek fire bombs, gunpowder incendiaries, etc) into the enemy ranks. Light them up, which either exposes them to volleys of missile fire, or forces them to leave their position (potentially breaking up formations, which could be devastating in darkness).
This was fun, Matt. I'd also suggest Joerg's natural rubber slingshots, or even his 'instant Legolas' might appear in a fantasy jungle setting (yes, I know it's just a variant of your missile weapon idea). In the case of a dark environment, I think flash-powder would be used to dazzle and disorient the front ranks in an engagement, possibly even as part of the missile weapons (or maybe as an adaption of lantern shields?). Communications in the dark? Well, we already use coloured flares.
Let's say i'm a pterasaur for a moment
"humans, they are quite dangerous! But they are so warm and tender too.... let's get breakfast!"
Something I could see developing as a hunting weapon in the dark environment would be things that cause damage to your prey while also preventing it from escaping. Things like a spear crossed with a mancatcher, barbed spears, or even better things like barbed tridents. I think you would also likely see an increase in the use of things like nets and bolas. The addition of things like bells to an arrow could be useful. Even if you don't injure the person a couple arrows with bells on them stuck in their shield or armor may help you locate your enemy.
Nice! It helps me mindstorm my story where the world is covered by fog, and the dangerous creatures in the fog are not clearly visible at day but they glow in the dark. However murder in my world is taboo, since dead people's soul give birth to humanoid fogeasts, increasing the danger of the fog. So not many war between humans here.
I think in the dark dogs are very important for their sense of smell and hearing.
In darkness:
- A massive spotlight which blinds the opponents
- Arrows tipped with fire/bioluminescent material to reveal the target's position
- Simple traps which would be a lot harder to see than in daylight
- An opaque glass ball filled with burning oil that you swing around on a chain (you don't have to aim exactly) which shatters when it hits someone and causes them to catch fire
- Circular shield walls
- If underground, castles would be pretty much redundant because you're already surrounded by stone
- Sound-based weapons which cause surprise and confusion
I remember that the German role playing system (DSA) had description and rules for crew operated anti-dragon pikes.
In darkness I would think that a stick/cane + another meleweapon would be very common, use the stick to find your way and when you feel/ hear/ see (if its a lowlight enviroment rather than a nolight one) you whack it with your weapon. Rushing in would probably not be an option if you are not on a completly flat and even surface, you would hurt yourself by slipping and falling way before you got to the enemy :p
First and foremost, it is really nice to see someone prominent in the historical martial arts communities embracing the fantastic elements of fantasy and speculating from the reality within the fantasy, rather than just saying "pff, these arms and weapons of a fictional world don't match real world historical equipment!"
About darkness, quick note, it doesn't need to be total darkness either. Consider that from dusk to absolute darkness levels there is a huge gradient.
I do disagree with you about ranged weapons in such environments though. 1 on 1 hand to hand fighting in the dark is doable, but a melee is too darn chaotic. It is chaotic in bright sunlight, several times worse at night. I think that ranged weapons would become very important, and diverse. You'd have noise making ones to signal or potentially reveal enemy positions if they react. "Shotgun" effects would likely be rather common, and they don't even need to be strongly lethal (throwing caltrops or things that stick to clothes and skin and make the enemy less efficient in fighting and moving). Chemical and "gadget" warfare would definitely get stronger, using smells, smoke, light and even electricity or acids. And of course, the ability to set the enemy on fire (or their general direction), very effective. And if stuff like bioluminescent plants and fungi, or mineral luminescent is available, expect that to be used and abused. Traps, both of the damaging and the enemy is here alert kind, would absolutely be used heavily.
More over, I think that guerrilla and "fortress" warfare is much more likely to dominate. If you can't see the environment, you have to get to know it by other means, such as shaping the environment yourself so you know it. You either create it by erecting fortifications and forcing the enemy to attack you at your strongest and your controlled environment (could be mobile too, see roman camps), or you prepare the area itself via setting forward traps, obstacles and creating safe paths that you know about but the enemy doesn't.
This is a really great video! Providing actual examples makes the concept behind your worldbuilding suggestions much more understandable.
*DARK SUN* , 2nd ed AD&D, like brutal Bronze Age world, city states surrounded by hellish deserts, where metals are extremely rare
obsidian weapons are about the best for most folks, animal spikes and teeth etc are commonly used
psionics are common, so In my games I ruled that folk who could "temper" obsidian stone etc to make it "tough" were very valuable and that's how the city states could still have arms/armour of worth vs the appalling monsters
I used to make Dark Sun (and Spelljammer) are, you can see some of it on my Deviantart page, same nom de plume: SilverbladeTE
wa sinspired by the awesome artist "Brom" who di dthe official art for Dark Sun
and you showed another of my fave D&D artists, the first fantasy pic you had on video, Matt, that was by Clyde Caldwell (love the way he painted gems!)
:)
This video has been massively helpful. I have been working on a sword and sorcery, dungeons & dragons setting with a dinosaur based ecology in the bronze age.
For the first time it occurs to me that (depending on the size) a domesticated dragon would be manned exactly like how the military mans multicrew aircraft. Dragon riders could include a pilot, navigator, weapons officer, defensive countermeasures officer, ammunition manager, and even cargo loadmaster. Turns out airborne operators are basically dragon riders already.
A permadark landscape would benefit from the weird yet cool lantern shield.
Edit: he mentioned them
I'm working on building a fantasy world for an rpg I'm making. This was very useful information to have. As always, Mr. Easton, you are invaluable.
With the darkness scenario there may also be a lot of use of traps, throwing down caltrops etc, luring people in with sound, then springing on them in their unfavourable position.
As you said you would probably want to fight in close formations, so you can stick with your allies, and know who your enemy is, you will perhaps even be holding onto each other.
People would probably also find a way to distinguish themselves vocally, where in our world they would do so visually, so you would get a greater language difference perhaps between tribes/ cultures.
Just in general there would be a lot of trickery to draw the enemy to you, or to force them to give away their positions, or lure them into positions that are more favourable to you. Essentially it would be whoever can get the drop on, or initiative first wins.
Something else to remember in a jungle world which could make a vast difference: available materials can make a very big difference. If the whole place is a jungle, you might not have advanced metallurgy.
These four scenarios checked all the boxes for a setting I have. Convenient.
The most interesting thing to me when thinking about fantasy world building is the variety of materials available. Say there's some fantastical large creature with incredibly durable / hard hide or scales. That's potential armour crafting material, and could change how the humanoid culture that makes use of it approaches conventional equipment. Or teeth and claws becoming parts of spiked or bladed weapons. Thrilled me to no end to hear you expand on the idea briefly.
I've done paintballing in the dark before. Light is a nasty weapon and we pretty much made it illegal after the first run-in with it. A bright flash can really hurt your eyes. Wooden clapper traps were also very effective and the sudden loud sound could stun people and cause a surprising amount of chaos. Using sound to give false information is effective, using created sounds to cover your own movements is also a pretty big deal. Effective range dropped to sub 20' in a dark forest. Never played in a more open area, but charging anything down in a dark forest, even a managed one, is a pretty bad idea in my experience. Position, misdirection and ambushing were generally most important. Paintpall in a dark managed forest ain't exactly the same thing you're talking about, but it at least some experience in the dark lol.
Yours is one of my favourite youtube channels, but I am so glad you aren't in my D&D game.
in the case of a perpetual darkness scenario (particularly on somewhere like a massive underground cave system) maybe replicate the way ants fight, with weapons like the asian Sasumata or fantasy mancatcher: a pole mounted with fixed prongs or an articulated trapjaw head. Also a lot of rope and diverse climbing implements adapted to combat. We could also adapt stuff from cave dwelling animals like the whip scorpion, a flexible cane that acts like antenna
Spear can also be used as a fishing weapon. I have seen big clubs used in the Amazon, but they were eminently ceremonial.
Modern "fortifications" are subterranean, I think that would be the norm if giant dangerous flyers are around.
For the darkness one I think stars would be important because they will provide a little bit of light which will help with our nature night vision we already have, but things like fire will become limited because if it was to go out you wouldn’t be able to see properly for a while till your nature night vision comes back. You could use it as a weapon as you could launch something like a flare into the air which would blind your enemy before you rush them to attack. you would just have to make sure your troops eyes are covered while the flare is still going but after it goes out you would uncover them and rush them and attack them while they can’t see. To counter flares you might see people wearing eyepatches so if they get flared they can take it off and still have one good eye to see out off.
Fightcamp 2021 3-person pike team duels and blindfold pitched battles. Can’t wait!
Where would I be without your guidelines.... Thank you so much, you're a star!
I think there's an interesting thing that was not mentioned by Matt on the topic of riding large creatures.
Large creatures can carry large weapons. I'm talking sticking a polybolos on an elephant. A LOTR Oliphaunt, being the size of a castle tower, could carry a very large weapon, or an array of smaller crew served weapons. Essentially, the large creatures could be living tanks, or landships, depending on their size, they don't have to be relegated to just carrying dudes with bows. I know I've seen a few depictions of ogre-like large bipedal creatures carrying large weapons on their backs, like the cannon gronn in WoW.
A world set in the dark would be interesting.
Because the eye needs to re-adjust to the dark after looking at light, causing momentary blindness, fire might be a prominent weapon either in the form of flaming arrows or braisers trailing the main group.
Perhaps helmets would have ear holes in favour of eye holes and heavy armour would be uncommon (because it's hard to hear anything else).
Alternatively it might become more like world war 1 tunnel fighting, where the two sides scrabble around in the dark for some difference in uniform and then shank their opponent.
Thanks for that Matt! I think I might have poked you with (and then deleted) the question that maybe prompted this video! You gave me some food for thought.
As someone working on a novel based in a thick forest, where small woodland creatures must defend themselves against huge beasts, while contending with an ever-increasing magical darkness... thank you for this video. And all of your videos for that matter.
Preferred animal to ride into battle? Shai Hulud! Best in the deep desert of course. As for the dinosaurs, well the large ones could be dealt with by keeping the areas around your villages clear of cover and having proper fortifications. The ones to be worried about are the little ones that hunt in packs or swarms. Think of them as land piranhas.
A side note on hunting large game. I think the most consistent method used by humans since the dawn of time has been to inflict numerous, though not immediately lethal, wounds via spear or harpoon. The prey will eventually flee and the humans will track it. The process is then repeated over as many kilometers as it takes until the animal dies of either blood loss or exhaustion. Endurance is something of a strong suit for us as a species (so much so that they still have man vs horse marathons regularly in Scotland...they even won a couple times) so it's hard to imagine fantasy hunters not taking advantage of this.
I think that in a contest of endurance, armor is more of an impediment than a help so I suspect it will play a less crucial role despite how easy it might be to secure. As far as I know, even in cultures that hunt large dangerous game, such as the masai lion hunters, rarely don any heavy armor whatsoever.
First.
Pollaxes would be the go to weapon.
First again!! This is a record.
Or spears!!
@@bentrieschmann I think spears are less effective if you are fighting many small creatures or something undead that can shrug off a piercing injury.
@@spiffyracc Same with polearms though. The edge is only a small part of the weapon and not all hostile creatures are rational enough to be wary of their reach. You also have to consider how cumbersome a polearm can be as an adventurer travelling alone - they're excellent battlefield weapons, but not every scenario in fantasy will be on a battlefield.
@@perrytran9504 cuts have significantly more stopping power than a thrust. Getting ran through might be more lethal, but you can keep fighting for a short while. A cut to the leg, shoulder or chest can make an opponent mechanically incapable of fighting.
darkness scenario had me thinking of ways to light up your enemy or environment without necessarily lighting yourself up specifically. Something like clay pot molotov cocktails, or fireball catapults maybe? Something like Greek fire might be much more useful there
I love how coming from ... You fight in darkness... We ended up with basically a description of dwarves. Bulky armour, big Shields, maces and axes, close formations.
My opinion for warfare in a world of darkness would be a large emphasis on traps and tactics to disorent the opposing force, possibly using battlements to ensnare instead of defend. Scouts with horns would be used a lot, I think. The armies themselves might be lightly armored for less noise and more maneuverability, with large shields to make up for lack of armor.
Large Creature Mounts: Ranged weapons of all kinds and polearms, especially two-handed spears.
Forests and Swamps: Darts, Slings, and Javelins should be pervasive (see the Roman military manuals, especially related to fighting Slavs and the like, which suggest that bows are suboptimal in these conditions); I could see bone armor being both readily made and more durable than cloth or metal, especially in swamps.
Megafauna: Polearms with heavy hafts and cross bars (boar spear analogs as an example), plus darts, javelins, and bows, likely using poison to help even the odds as you are able. Mobile artillery seems to have potential.
Darkness: Sound control seems vital (avoid noisy kit like metal-on-metal). Slings with incendiaries as well as hand bombs of some kind (simple fire pots, if nothing else) would help with managing contact.
For dinosaur hunting my guess is humans would do something similar to whale hunting. Harpoon them with a ballista mounted on top of a smaller dinosaur, maybe? Maybe a ceratopsid, for that large shield.
I respect to variances in the setting of fantasy genre, I really enjoyed seeing *Carnival Row* seek to do a mash of steampunk and fantasy albeit the majority of weapons featured were late 19th century firearms, which are probably the most effective option available.
Love the last setting. Thats so fun to think about. I think the most realistic scenario for that kind of world is that you are fighting under ground for what ever reason.
I absolutely love including dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals in my fantasy stuff like d&d and typically treat them as just normal animals in this setting. I love doing this and having way more biodiversity in my worlds. I was so happy to hear your thoughts and elaboration on how to treat them in world building.
I actually think the 1-person per flying creature trope does make some sense, but for a different reason than what is normally shown in fantasy. If we're not using magic but only having giant flying creatures that need to obey the laws of physics, they wouldn't be winged dinosaur-like things with massive bodies but more like the large pterosaurs: mostly wings with a very small body. These creatures would need to be as light as possible and probably wouldn't be able to carry much weight, a lightly armoured humanoid would probably be the max. This would mean that, for warfare, they'd likely be used for scouting and spying on the enemy as opposed to actually fighting. Strong but highly mobile missile weapons would also likely be common in order to deal with enemy scouts.
Excellent world building video Matt. Especially dealing with reference to atypical natural environments relative to our reality.
Thanks for the video, was really hoping for a naval theme.
I think traps would play a huge part in a dark world combat setting. Instead of light being used as an offensive tool, it's instead used for defensive situations by for example having lanterns placed at strategic locations to illuminate enemies that are approaching so your missile troops can fire more accurately while themselves remaining hidden.
Agreed. And light doesn't have to be always on (it can light up when someone stumbles into a tripwire - so you know whether to rescue them or finish them off) or useful in both directions (dim beacon lights that mark traps or perhaps the way between traps can be shrouded so you only see them from your side).
I love these long form videos