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Why, How and When to Change Positions on the Violin
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- čas přidán 20. 04. 2013
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i'm a uni music student, just been given a essay to do on a technique on our instrument, this video is gold, especially the 6 reasons as to WHY shifting is beneficial, thanks so much!!
All good guidance and well thought out. And students should be aware that the situations Maestro Allison describes, particularly regarding tonal qualities, will make more sense only after they begin to master the higher positions. A whole new world on the violin with new vistas opens to the student. Are they challenging? Sure. Does the reward outweigh the difficulties? Absolutely.
You know, I've been playing for about 20 years, mostly self taught Celtic fiddling with a heavy influence from Cape Breton where I live. We aren't shy about bringing out some of those clashier sounds like open strings, and mostly we play from the first position but with heaps of ornamentation like double stops and slides and rolls and crans. But I've been toying with moving up the positions for a few years since I saw a violinist I admire doing it. I've wondered for years about the exact reason. I think your explanation answered all the questions. Well done and thank you!
Nice discussion. Just about said it all. Find a lot of beginners have a tendency to use 1st and 3rd position a lot but rarely 2nd when all they needed is a high C just above the B.
When shifting I try to start in the beginning of a series of notes such as GABC on the E string. I'd shift to 2nd pos. on the G and play all 4 in 2nd pos. instead of playing GAB in 1st pos. and then the C by itself in 2nd. Feels more natural that way.
Avoid open strings to get a warmer sound definitely. However, when playing I occasionally use an opening string even in 3rd or 4th pos. to make fingering easier by intentionally avoid using a finger.
Shifting in order to get vibrato on fingers 2 &3 is very true because the baby finger tend to be weak. Doing vibrato on the D-string to get on the effect on the open-G is interesting. You learn something new all the time. Thank you.
thepianoplayer416 one can use an extension to get a note higher than you need (only if your hand is large enough of course)
Brilliant, thanks! You're very clear to understand.
This is excellent. I like the presentation style. I am exploring the whole of Vivaldi 4 seasons and Bach concerto in A minor and trying to understand finger positioning. I would add the following comments . Going up the neck on the D string gives nicer tones and makes the violin sound more like a viola. I think Elgar does this a lot. Eg chansin de matin. In the Bach and many other pieces you get phrases that jump octaves . So C points you at 2nd position Eb points you at lowered 4th position or F gives you 5th position. The low note is for 1st finger and the high note is 4th finger. The repeated phrase fits in the middle. I am not an expert. Thank you for the video.
Open strings beautifully sound like coming up after a dive and the sun beautifully shines on crystal-clear water!
Ancient music seems to be a very different musical universe from classical music, which is coined by the romantic era. I do string crossings as much as possible to get better in this matter. Sometimes I really have to say "no" to my new teacher: I prefer the open string and rather not the 4th finger D, A, E. On the open E you have to be a bit careful of course, but it's possible to get a sweet sound out of it which isn't harsh at all. Sweet and crystal-clear, that is the sound that I love.
Nonetheless I started to train higher positions over the past 2 weeks, because it takes a bit more strength. This is already improving C, G, D, A on the 3rd finger and even more C#, G#, D#, Bb. Response improves and the tone has more energy, color and depth. My teacher will be surprised. I told her "no changing positions" on the first day. Well, it still goes in musical pieces.....
My 4th finger D and A now also gained more color and depth and somehow they do sound beautifully. But I cannot use them for my kind of music, especially because they're too far of the open string sounds I prefer. I can't have a G-string D in a phrase together with an open A. It sounds like they come from two completely different instruments. It says all over the web : lots of open strings used in baroque. Plus if I watch the world-class players of ancient music on CZcams they stay in the first position all the time. I saw only one change of positions on the E string among over a dozen videos I had checked.
So it depends on the style of music.
I started with your videos, I'm now on this part of my journey.❤️
You put such a great effort in your video, thank you very much these are a life saver 🌷
When should a beginner start to shift in the violin?
Eucalyptus I think to start practicing shifting about 3 months before finishing your first year playing the violin, and when you are familiar with shifting start using it in easy pieces.
Thats my thought because I learn it like that, but other people may have a different opinion. :)
I’ve played for 5 years and started shifting on yr3
everything is the same - even bowing. In a violin section in an orchestra, you are as one, just like the Borg! :)
"You will learn 3rd position. Resistance is futile."
superb,thank you so much teacher
A good book for this is called:
A Tuneful Introduction to the Third Position by Neil Mackay available on Amazon.co.uk and .com
Thank you. This video clears a lot of doubts.
yes, im going to doa video on this as i just cant explain it here - it would take me so long to type it all out!
Very informative video! Thank you, ma'am for this video!
oh my miss allison I didn't guess u r a star trek fan. well we all must have our relaxing time. live long and prosper. so am i!
Thanks
This helped me a lot 👍
Thank you. It totally makes sense to me.
This is very helpful!!! Thank you
if its only a 1/4 size i really wouldnt bother about it unless it a) cost you an absolute fortune or b) this will be the last violin she ever has. Since this will most likely not be the case I wouldnt worry until you get her a full size violin worth a considerable amount more. Also, the sound-post is not supposed to be directly under the bridge in the very middle. Im not and expert on this subject as im only a violinist not a violin luthier, but i wouldnt let it bother me.
Hi, I have been practicing at the first position and never tried other positions. Now I want to start to practice switching between positions. Do you have any advice on where to start and what to play for this purpose? Thanks!!
Fantastic. Thank you!
Bach Arioso from Cantata no. 156 is an example of shifting for tone quality- very easily played in first position, but sounds better with the shifts to keep phrases on a single string.
In an orchestra setting, is the shifting in sync between all the players, or do you shift according to personal preference? Many thanks
Hello, I'm having a problem with the third position. Other than learning new notes down the fingerboard, where are these notes located on the fingerboard? And are there any gaps like the 1st position notes on the second finger? Thanks in advance :)
Can you make a sheet that can talks about the sharps and flats in violin? Like how the sharps and flats work in violin. Because as a beginner that my violin teacher tell me like when sharp in musical staff, move the second finger up to between normal position of first finger and normal position of second finger. Then next music sheet that I need to move another finger to another new position because sharp or flat. So can you make a sheet in general range about the changing finger position with flat and sharp.
I have several videos like this already on my channel.
Nice explanation
Dang, my laptop is cheating on me, you got my laptop...is he secretly visiting you? LOL
I've been rejecting the G-string D for months, it sounds awfully dark and muffled and I like the open D better. I just hate the sound. I have to tolerate the C# for there's no other C# to get, but it doesn't sound all that dark. But I will experiment with the beauty of positions on the A string later.... Just ripped off my First Frets 2 weeks ago and feel like I've survived it, beginning to feel comfortable again. Personally, I've been a liker of open string sounds since I started in May 2015. The problem I see is, after going to high positions on the A string, there's no way to get to the E string from there, because the sound would be too different. On the other hand, it's good to have more than one color, which might possibly inspire me as improviser. Routine is the enemy of inspiration and things can get dull and sleepy. So having another sound register should be a good thing.
Thanks, nobody explains it like you. Now I'm ready to try it, after I've been like, "No way!"
Can we ever use an open string? If so, when?
Yes. Its up to you and what sort of sound you want to achieve and whether or not you want to put vibrato on a note and also if the notes before or after it are on another string, you can avoid jumping strings if you use a 4th finger for example. Im pretty sure I have covered this in a video that I did many years ago.
If not, I will make a new one.
Alison plz help i cannot find answer to my question. Possible reasons for sounding like torturing a kitten when playing in the 3rd position??? Even when i hit the note correctly :( sooo discouraging. In the 1st position i am happy with my intonation
I have a video coming on this very soon.
Hi teacher can you please teach practice on intonation on violin
Should I worry about shifting positions if I've only played for around four months. I've learned fairly quickly since I play guitar and the hand movement feels pretty natural to me but I want to make sure I'm not moving too quickly through learning.
+Jackson Catlett no. You will not need to go into positions at your level yet.
You are osm love you so much from India
Thanks, that was jelpful.
when changing position. should i slide my finger or lift my finger then press new note??, cause when i slide my finger, sound like scratching :(
combination of both depending on what and where and what the music says at the time. If you slide fast enough you wont get the slide so much, but in some certain styles of music, the slide is really nice.
There is no rule so thats why im being vague, but a combo of lifting and sliding, but very quickly doing this is whats important.
My pinky is actually a beast from playing bass and guitar, my other fingers are like sledgehammers and don't leave a lot of room, my pinky allows me to be more precise
So basically all violin positions are a shift of the first position? (Same intervals between the fingers)
The notes go up in step like a scale, up the fingerboard.
I wish she would have demonstrated it to sheet music
This is all covered in GREAT depth in my new violin book 3 (lessons 21-30) that will be out next month. Its a very complicated . subject and there isnt even a 'rule of thumb' which is why its hard to demonstrate with pieces because what I would say for one piece, would never work on another piece.
how time do you took to be a violinist like today ?
I have been playing since I was 4 and it took me around 10-15 years to become fully professional level.
Hmmmm, I wasn't sure if I was still on You Tube. I never heard Alison use G-string and naked in the same sentence. :)
I haven't played in a while. Are the positions, from top to bottom? One the strings? And do I have to press down hard to get the sound I want?
top to bottom? Not sure i get what you mean? You will need to apply a certain amount of pressure with the fingers to get them to work a little harder, same with the bow, the higher up in the positions you go on the violin.
The Online Piano and Violin Tutor from where the pegs are at the top to the bridge bottom.
1st position is nearest the pegs, then 2nd position is next going towards the bridge and so on.
The Online Piano and Violin Tutor ok thank you.
A new one can cost A LOT! Butbtbreally depends on where you buy it and if it's new.
Thankyou . It would have been nice if you had used your violin for the examples .
This video is getting re-made in the new year as it’s many years old now - when I first started my channel and had no clue about videoing and editing!
I plan to remake this and lots of other old videos to bring them in line with all the new technology I currently have available.
Schindler's List for me goes on 4 different strings
Same. I came here coz I'm playing Schindler's List
Did u guys finished the piece?
im a violist :/ so should I just avoid open strings as well?
I dont play or teach the viola, so I wouldnt like to say. Sorry
In school they taught us (violists) to avoid open strings as well because it matches the richness of cellos and sounds better so from my experience, yes! :)
does the sheet music tell you when to shift??
Sometimes yes.
+The Online Piano and Violin Tutor Sometimes!!!Oh nO lol
:)
Thanks for all you Do!! The Chart helped me a lot! Third Position chart!
Blessings to you!
I am learning the William tell overture 1st violin, and I really need to know when to switch positions because theirs some high notes in there, plus the ridicules speed!!!1 I really need help.
I dont know your part so im not sure i can help. Sorry
This is kind of off-topic, but what do you use that whiteboard in the background for? The one that says 'Subscribe'?
I dont have it now, but I made notes on what videos I wanted to do lol.
Thanks for answering what I thought was a silly question, I usually refrain from asking this stuff unless it's related to the violin or music. Ever since I saw your videos for the first time I saw that whiteboard in the background, and I wondered what you (as a music teacher) would use it for. :)
...I think we are waaaay past that now! 😂
How much does a violin cost?!
a good one is 200$ to 1500$
So basically the position used is up to the violinist's discretion?
Pretty much - but it depends if going into 3rd position for arguments sake will make life easier, or you can vibrato better, or you want a different tone, or to avoid open strings etc etc.
All depending on the type of piece.
Phil Lesh liked to avoid open notes on bass, thought that was interesting
I can't play the positions
"we wont go there"... Too late
I think Im In love with my violin tutor.....