SCOTUS & Ticketing The Homeless; Cruel? Yes, But Not Unusual...
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
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I'm an Anglican Priest in the Diocese of Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island (my pronouns are he/him/his) and I get to serve in the Parish of St Margaret of Scotland, in the beautiful city of Halifax, NS, that sits on the ancestral and unceded territory of the Mi'kmaq people. Email me at rev.ed.onlineministry@gmail.com and I will do my best to respond.
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In a pure capitalist society, being poor is a crime. Poor people are punished every day for simply being poor. Poverty fees are everywhere in society.
You ever notice that when a rich man loses money, he's a victim of government, but when a poor man has little or no money, it's his own fault.
Capitalism and Christianity are not compatible, so it's weird how American Christians do whatever it takes to defend the system that Jesus did not like.
Lets let investment firms compete for residential property with homeowners and then we will make homelessness illegal. Muhahahahaha!!!
@@psydd5209- I doubt that was the plan, but the outcome sure seems that way.
Do you've defined it. What are you going to do with that?
@@julietfischer5056 You forget about for profit prisons?
Our society is so sick we can't even leave people alone while they sleep at night if they can't pay for it.
If you have no money you have no place to be, everyone owns everything.
I'm starting to believe the USA are the baddies.
So many of us, here in the U.S.A.- the best country in the world as some say- are living a paycheck away from being homeless. A little compassion and understanding would be helpful. And the realization that none of these folks just woke up one day and said "Wouldn't it be cool to be homeless? I could crap on the sidewalk!" Every one of these poor people has heartrending stories to tell. And they are ALL Children of God, created in God's image. "As you do to the least of these, my brothers, so you do to me."
England has had squatters rights since King James put the Bible together.
Seeing the small-souled, angry comments from supposed christians...they can't even care enough to take in facts like half or more unhoused people already *have* a job, they just want to complain about *the* *other* . It's all *their* *fault* my life isn't perfect. How is any of that showing God's love?!
@@jaysea5939 I’ll live in a tent before I pay $2000 a month for rent. The rent is too damn high!!!!
@@psydd5209 rent is absolutely ridiculous, even some 1 bedroom in the middle of nowhere will be 1500, it's not sustainable
Amen!
What eats away at me is the tons of empty buildings. This problem is low hanging fruit. We can fix it. We have a president that wants to deal with this. We just need to give him the House and Senate to get it done. I'm praying for it. Tickets won't help anything.They don't have money for food, do they think that ticket means anything? President Jimmy Carter built homes for people all his days until he entered hospice. He and Rosalin are true Christians.
- Unless the ticket serves as a voucher for housing and meals, it doesn't really help.
Thank you for acknowledging the best politician GA has yet to produce…
Christian politicians certainly don’t peddle gold leafed bibles….
I believe a big portion of all the buildings and houses have been bought by big corporations and they will sit on it until they get what they’re asking for. In some areas (states)housing prices are falling because of there greed
If the born-again Christians can make Greg Locke an Apostle they should make Jimmy Carter a Saint!.
Not every building is suitable for conversion to housing, but it may be suitable for some other function to help the less fortunate. Assuming they haven't been bought up as 'investments' to sell to the highest bidder.
I wouldn't say it's an indication that they don't care about their brothers and sisters.
IT'S AN INDICATION THAT THEY HATE THEIR BROTHERS AND SISTERS.
And that indication is right here. I've posted this for a long time. Another unhoused person replied they've experienced being ignored also. Yet, we don't get replies. It's. Right. Here.
They love power too much.
Those same people would ticket Mary and Joseph and take Jesus into custody
Unless Jesus bought them a vacation.
In Kalamazoo they turned an abandoned hotel into studio apartments for the homeless. Other cities have used little homes. These programs prove to be successful in lifting people up and out.
Many times, just having a safe place to stay has been the greatest help. Provide them with counselling and other help and they rejoin society.
Those aren't solutions. Its just getting us out of sight, out of mind. There's no success when it doesn't even allow a LIFE. Those damned sheds aren't even legal jail cells, but you think they're the answer. It's all crap that someone is making a big profit from!
@@julietfischer5056 I don't need your damned "counseling" any more that you need it!
@@julietfischer5056 Exactly. We have the money for so many other, less important things, why not spend some to treat our homeless brothers and sisters with kindness and decency? I wouldn't be surprised if actually helping the homeless ended up costing less than it takes to harass and mistreat them.
@@kristinewalberg2938- It would certainly benefit society far more to help them. We may never be rid of homelessness, but we can certainly invest in programs that would reduce it (and the amount of time those folks are underhoused).
We need properly-funded community facilities for the mentally ill. Publicly funded through the state and local governments, and staffed with the optimal number of well-trained people. So many families cannot take care of those members who are mentally ill or developmentally disabled. They don't have the time or resources.
Some mentally ill people just need a safe place to stay and someone to ensure they take their medicine and help them with the odds and ends of life. They can hold jobs and function. Others need more help, all the way up to those who _must_ be institutionalized full-time because they cannot care for themselves. (No for-profit facilities, either. Those places cut everything to the bone to please the shareholders and pad their bank accounts.)
Other homeless need the safe places to stay and to get the help they need without humiliating requirements and questions. How many simply won't go near the agencies because they'll be treated like cheats and crooks?
We are among the richest nations on the planet. There's no reason for anybody to suffer and die within sight of food, water, and shelter.
If you have money, nice clothes, a car, a home etc, etc,etc, then you can take a nap in the park. 😡Society is going exactly the way the Bible said it would. The reason the corrupt Supreme Court sided with the city is a political issue. There's a certain party that should change their name to " hypocrite party "
Hello Rev. Ed, it's one of the internet people again.
Your message today brings to mind something the Dali Lama said, and paraphrasing, 'If you can not help others, at the very least, do no harm to them.' This decision will directly cause harm to the homeless community. The US is really messed up, and I live here.
I hope we can come together and fix it.
May the Force be with you, always, and may you live long and prosper. ❤️🖖
Get out and vote then, and not for the party responsible for all this bigotry and hatred. Take friends...
Join the poor peoples campaign or donate 5 dollars to them they have good ideas to help those socially and economically disinfranchised.
These are probably people who would think kicking a dying or dead dog is cruel. Yet, a human life is nothing to them…unless it’s still in a womb.
I'm going to suggest that Jesus said "the poor will always be with you" because he knew we weren't going to do anything to solve poverty and everything that comes from it. This ruling more or less proves that we haven't changed in 2200 years.
The poor will always be with you, you need to care fir them. Jesus also told tge parable about the rich man and the bigger too who denied even table scraps he fed the dog. And you know what happened to the rich man right?
@@annabrahamson4320 Yep. Unfortunately, as this ruling shows. the "care for them" part gets lost or ignored.
@@annabrahamson4320 Fine. So what are you doing?
@@donaldwert7137 OK, you see that. What will you do with that?
"The poor will always be with you" because of karma or learning that part of living as well.
I'm facing being homeless now. My health took a turn and I went from making $30 an hour, to not being able to work. Because of the bureaucracy with SSDI, Medicaid, staffing shortages, etc, it is taking forever to get anything done. I've tried fundraising with no luck. I've sold pretty much everything I own, an it still isn't enough. All of those skills I spent my life obtaining are worthless when you're sick.
Point being life can change in the blink of an eye. I thought I had it figured out until I didn't. It's shameful how we treat one another in times of need
God Bless you.
I'm wishing you well. Love.
Mine did as well. And I am very close to being homeless as well, along with my husband, my daughter and her son. All have issues. What I have wrong with me would not work when I become homeless. We would be ok, except my daughters lamdlord wants 800 more a month for this horrible place. I understand I am worth nothing. Once I could no longer work, I became a scourge on society. My daughter is applying for SSDI, first round was denied. My husband works part time, he has had a stroke, heart attack and diabetes. My grandson inherited multiple psychological issues from his dad. I no longer believe God cares about me, or others like me. I hope you make it through this. I do understand. ❤
@@AndreaSwiedler my best wishes to you and yours. SSDI is a nightmare because of staffing shortages and the bureaucracy. Hang in there. I am in the same boat, if I end up homeless I'll die in the streets. My health is too bad and I would never make it. I couldn't even stand on the corner and panhandle for money because of my health. I feel as you do, that since I am no longer able to work, and because I am poor, that I am invisible, irrelevant, and disposable. It's sad that it is like that. Especially when the US brags about being the richest, most powerful country in the world. Yet we let our people die in the streets because their circumstances changed and they got sick. It shouldn't be like that.
@Iseerightthruyou thank you. Feeling so hopeless and helpless is horrible. Wish I could do something for both of us. And I selfishly admit, knowing I am not alone does not make it easier.
Yesterday as I was taking my laundry to the laundromat I crossed my neighbour who was coming in the opposite direction at around a bus shelter. He pointed at the bus shelter, I saw a bunch of cardboard boxes and at first I thought "how dare someone throw a bunch of cardboard boxes in there" upon a further glance there was a lady inside.
No one should be homeless, but if they are we shouldn't punish them further.
Where I work I encounter homeless people on a daily basis. We as a society need to fix this problem. Not to make us "look good". Rather because it's in societies best interest overall to house people if they can't afford it. Without housing you can't even really apply for a job. Also some of the people are mentally ill through no fault of their own. I just hate to see people who have fallen through the cracks of society and are destined to live a horrible life.
I've made a lot of mistakes in my life and am lucky that I am not homeless but who knows in the future? I've been pretty close and at times have had to use food banks. There is nothing more humiliating than someone seeing you go into a food bank.
Just my two cents worth as an atheist.
Agree. Don't pretend to a rich Christian nation if you're not a Christian. Vote BLUE for common decency! The GOP only care about rich and powerful. Vote BLUE.
You have more love in your heart than many many so called Christians Bless you for that.
I became homeless due to a strange divorcw case (domestic violence). I lived in cabins in Alaska & managed to sell belongings to buy a very old camper . I had 2 large dogs. I traveled from Alaska to Washington & lived in the camper for a year. One dog died & i was grieving. Some social service folks were concered (bless them). Soon i was placed in a low income apartment. It was partially helpful with the exception of the neighbors drug use (meth & cocaine). I had to leave. I managed to get a small used car with a a tent & with my one remaining dog, drove back to my home State. God bless us all!
Did you know Citizens in the UK get equal representation in civil court?
That you even got an apartment is very unusual. The places that still have waiting lists, those lists are years long! And you brought up the issue of unliveable conditions in many of those apartments. That isn't being addressed either!!!
Love.
The Tennessee municipality I live in did the same thing as this town in Oregon, ticketing homeless people sleeping on public property. I wish I could say that masses of folks in this Bible-belt town rose up in protest to the town’s action, but they did not. 😢
Are you rising up in protest?
Imagine if rich people paid their fair share of taxes. Imagine if corporations made a fair profit instead of taking advantage just to please the investor class. And imagine if the republican party actually cared about people and lived up to the "Christian" values they profess guides their lives. We can make a start at fixing this. Vote! Thanks Rev, and you're right, cruel is no longer unusual. And some people are better at it than others.
It always amazes me how many “good” people believe that spending tax dollars on caging innocent people is a good idea, but spending half that amount housing those same people is evil.
I don't understand how they see this going. They give a homeless person a ticket - which they cannot pay - and then...what? What's the next step? They wrack up fines for failure to pay, making it even more difficult to get back on their feet? They go to jail for multiple tickets/offenses and failure to pay, costing taxpayers for the cost of their imprisonment? This seems like it's not just *cruel* (it is incredibly cruel) but it's impractical in the extreme in a way that will only end up costing the town more money in the long run.
I am not convinced that a large portion (not everyone, obviously) of the citizens of my country want real solutions to our problems. Many of them seem to want magical solutions that don't conform to the realm of reality. They want someone to come along, wave a wand and make the problem go away. They certainly don't want to put in the work to solve problems and don't even *consider* suggesting that they have to put a few cents of their income into solving our community problems, that's just inconceivable to them.
You know, I was in the hospital for almost a month from late May to mid June and during that time I had to start physical therapy so that I can walk properly, do regular tasks, care for myself and get back to where I was before I was sick. When I was able to really process what was happening I started asking about a walker, about physical therapy, about opportunities to get out of bed and do the work I knew I was going to have to do in order to repair my body from everything I had been through. The physical therapy team was shocked that I was so engaged. They told me they often have to persuade patients to get out of bed and walk, to do their exercises, to put in the work. They don't feel good, they are in pain, they are depressed and miserable as patients in a hospital setting. I certainly understand all that - I felt many of the same things - but no one was going to wave a magic want and just heal them. Medicine is not magic. The only way to get better is to get up and do the work. Sometimes that SUCKS, but you put your big kid pants on and you DO it because that's how things improve.
Community problems like the issues that lead to homelessness are the same. They will only improve when we as a society commit to putting in the time, effort and money to change them.
I have brought this up on this channel repeatedly and was ignored. This decision was inevitable because we unhoused are not heard.
This is about prejudice and it simply doesn't matter. 🤬
Yep. People dont want to listen.
We started a mutual aid group. Its helped alot.
But after 1 year, people just want to go back to letting some shifty type start a non-profit for some reason...so they can fundraise but shut us all out of discussion together. It was going fine...
But the system is cruel...
@@genossinwaabooz4373 Thank you for your reply! You have seen first hand what the score is...we don't matter. Just the fact that what I posted and what you replied haven't received any attention says it all. WE. ARE. NOT. WELCOME.
22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; [23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. It’s crazy. Some places in the states were arresting people for feeding the homeless. Shame shame. I always try to throw a few bucks to the homeless. You’re right. Try to help anyway you can
i'm sure they appreciate it being thrown. What you can do to help is to start protesting the PREJUDICE! I keep saying that nothing will change until the prejudice is addressed, just like with race and gender. Get at it.
A watched a video a while back about "hostile architecture", with one of its many malicious purposes being to further make life hell for the homeless and poor, and some examples, like abrupt rises and pillars on the sidewalk, have literally resulted in *quote unquote* "NORMAL" people, being seriously injured.
Saw that. Another level of cruelty
@@revedtrevors4961 What is the action taken????
Let's not forget in the US prison labor is legal slave labor. If you can get them into prison and keep them there you have a labor force
For profit prisons should be illegal imo. As with other "for profit".
Here's hoping that Donald J6 Trump will soon join "the labor force."
Exactly, it's in the Constitution - 13th Amendment!
Unless they ticket anyone in an RV, even retired people and vacationers, the equal protection clause of the 14th ammendment should protect people living in RVs.
We've been targeted that way too, as soon as we got a camper. And they all know we're good, stand-up people.
Cops and their fans, really just want to kill us.
@@genossinwaabooz4373- They had their ticket quota to make.
Edit: I’m coming back to this because they are indeed ticketing people if they don’t move parks once a week.
I am in the town in Oregon. As I sit here writing this, there are two tents in the park outside of my house that have been there for a week. The police are not ticketing them. The police will come if there is violence. There are a few who are known drug dealers and they get shifted around from park to park, because they deal drugs to the most vulnerable of the homeless and the most violent. So the police don’t really allow these few to set up shop for more than a day or two in any single place. I have kids that I can barely feed right now and I’m going to the food bank on the regular. I am incredibly grateful that I have a roof over our heads. I don’t harass the people living in the park. Most of them are quiet and clean up after themselves. I know they come to my house at night to get water. Everyone needs water. Sadly, the city charges me $150 a month just for water, so that’s putting a strain on my already poor family.
I can’t let my kids play out there anymore right now because there are needles, and no bathroom so people just squat outside their tents to go. There’s human excrement on the edges of the park. The park is a cemetery, so people are having to releive themselves on graves. But that’s how it is. The only time we’ve had a problem was the other day when a man, clearly not in his right mind, was swinging a large axe around and trying to chop down one of the grandmother trees. That wasn’t cool.
Anyhow…nobody so far has been ticketed or jailed for sleeping outside unless they hurt someone or pose an actual physical danger.
The real problem comes from our far-right city counselmen. They were given an opportunity to take millions from the state and feds to create shelters and treatment centers, and they refused that money. They chose instead to launch this legal thing and put the strain on the community. Recently, these same counsel-men, (one of them Herman Baertschiger, my 7th and 8th grade social studies teacher who taught us about the separation of church and state) defunded the Oregon State University Extension program in town that covers the 4-H program, citing its “Woke Agenda”. So farm kids can’t do 4-H for the last two years because these “leaders” think they saw a “transgender video” coming out of the OSU program. The video doesn’t exist that anyone can find in relation to children’s programs, but the truth doesn’t matter to religious Far-right extremists. You know?
What I wish people knew about our town was that in the 1990’s the whole town gathered together to run out the Aryan nations from building a complex and recruiting in our area. We chased them out of town and back to Idaho.
Now we have hundreds of Three Percenters driving around town terrorizing people on the streets.
As I’ve said before, I have two transkids and our lives are at risk every time we leave the house as long as the local hate groups go unchecked. I can’t send them to schools here. Not as themselves.
I may even be risking my life writing a comment on CZcams like this.
My point is, we’ve been infected big time by the hate group that is the maga cult here.
These hate group members are running our city, and a lot of the actual people here did the best they could to accommodate the homeless. But we have nothing left to fight with.
I can’t really even feed my kids.
A few bad apples…
To add: the people I don’t see, at all, Is the Catholic church across the other street from the park where I live. I don’t see the mega Christian church in town, “River Valley Church” who just (allegedly) paid the county 9.5 million dollars for a massive empty building, doing anything to help or even using their words to speak up.
I do see small groups of citizens banding together doing what they can with food, and necessities, and helping to clean up and enduring threats on the daily for it from “the haves” for helping those who don’t.
This is a Important discussion, Great message Rev Ed..Me And my Family talk about this all the time what could be done.. First off you need a system like Food stamps, Social security, Medicare etc..A programs that when you first become homeless You go into a program your in some form of shelter you get processed and have a case worker work out your problem..Say your Homeless with Mental health you would get help getting disability and housing placement with a councilor..We need rent regulations and housing built ... Saying your A Christian Nation and having a massive Homeless problem is a Hipprocary..The Supreme Court should have been more honorable and Humane and said help these folks and not fine give them shelter..God Bless 🕊️
There is not enough available housing in the US for counselors to direct the unhoused and low income people to. The recent stats are that something 7 million housing units for lower income people are needed across the US. In this area, there was a county whose efforts were being directed to help people from becoming homeless in the first place. And that was a very cost effective way to deal with the homelessness problem until rents kept rising.
I agree with you on rent regulations and conversion or building more affordable housing.
@@terryhenderson424 Forgive me for being a little blunt there no excuses, Were free we can get things done, my dad was a union construction worker you can build anything, FDR new deal did construction jobs ..Look at Ike in the 1950s interstate highway construction. I had family that were civilians in WW2 in Europe, Europe was ashes and rubble they rebuilt fast..We can create millions of construction jobs building new houses and renovations to old ones.,And people really don't need to live in 200million dollar mansions. The Problem is Uncontrollable capitalism Greed , Power , the Lust for Money 🤑..If Trump wins And the right wing have there way we are all going to be Homeless..There is no excuse for people living on a street..
Meanwhile, starting a mutual aid group has helped us enormously, and many others. Its best to come together, and listen.
We're in a camper now.
"You can't sleep here ... this is a public space." reminds me of Dr. Strangelove.
"You can't fight here... this is the War Room!"
Thank you Ed. I needed that.
Housing First model is the answer to the problem.
I'm unhoused and that's not my answer!!
@auntiebobbolink What is your answer? How could we solve l homelessness? Finland does a housing 1st approach. It works.
@@CricketsBay Are you willing to hear my answer, or is your mind made up?
@@CricketsBay Yes, we have an abundance of answers, because we see 24/7 what is actually going on. We also know better than anyone else, what we need. But people don't like to actually listen...
We can do something about this.There is a way to deal with it. Government can provide safe,decent,and affordable for people. People can hold the government’s feet to fire of making sure the money and plan works the way it should work. WWJD
It’s what churches used to do a century ago.
@@libbycollins9349 And now government pays churches and politicians lots of money to solve the homeless problem and the money is so good that they actually want more homeless, rather than less.
Just like with cancer. They don't want to cure it because millions of people would lose lots of money they make on the sick.
*~RULE 303~* ✌🏼😎🤘🏼
Hear hear! Sounds like a good thought
I'm sharing this with my wife, a Lutheran minister. Hunger and homelessness are central to her ministry. We live in a pretty affluent, medium-sized Midwestern city, and the hunger problem here is crazy. It's a problem that could be solved tomorrow if people would follow Christ's teachings.
This reminds me of the old concept of imprisoning people who are too poor to pay their debt. People were locked up so they couldn't work to have the money for their debt.
God bless you rev Ed. Love you.
They need to stop and think that IF IT WASNT FOR TJE GRACE OF GOD IT COULD BE THEM. GOD HELP US ALL.
Beau of the Fifth Column says , it's cheaper to be a good person.
Beau is correct .. I love his show ❤
The privatized prison system is looking for customers
Bingo. They don't want us to leave. We tried.
The prison system already has a customer, the government. They need inventory.
Thank you for this heartfelt commentary.
Amen ❤
Thank you Rev Ed.
Thanks for speaking out about this.
Such an incredibly difficult issue worldwide. 😢
It's not as hard as you think.
The churches in that town should open up their spaces for the homeless. Make big signs saying the homeless are invited to camp on their property.
They can't get tax money from the homeless, and it cost money to help them to get out of their situation. They just sweep them under the rug. Out of sight and out of mind.
“We don’t have to be mean. Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.”
-Dr. Banzai
Matthew 5:1-12! Jesus expressly stated exactly what we , as followers of Christ are to do: the Beatitudes! I am not sure when the actual mission of our faith changed, but I know that it has become darker and more Pharisee like. Thank you Rev Ed for this summation:”They don’t care at all about their brothers and sisters!” 😢
Further on in Matthew “Lord, when did we see you hungry and not feed you?”
they ticket feeding em!!
In St Paul, Minnesota, there was an empty factory which now has tiny home type shelters inside for a short term place to stay until people get situated. They can then be transitioned to apts.
They don't think about the fact that the $100 ticket is only a "one time" income, while giving the person help to become stable and employable would be a continuing source of income. Some people just need a little help to get out of homelessness. Others may need more. They need to focus on the easier fixes and move up to the more challenging ones.
If they had the $100 they wouldn’t be sleeping rough. Jailing them costs more than getting them a room.
@@randallthomas5207 Yep. The numbers sre so insane when you really look at what is up.
Maybe we should ticket the bank, shop or supermarket for each of the homeless found camping in front depending on whether these people are being aided by these shops or not. If the people in the tents are in a public park, then ticket the mayor.
I have no words, except....what youve done to the least of them, yoive done unto me. I knew you not.
This is what happens when resources are held by a few rich folks.
Homelessness is one of the many results of an abusive, addictive society lacking sufficient infrastructure to provide recovery from the abuse created and perpetuated by that society.
👣🕊👽
Fine description. Where is the action?
The first time I went to San Francisco, there was a homeless guy in a wheelchair outside one of the hotels; people left him all sorts of pastries in the AM. The next time I visited, the city had cleared out the homeless.
San Francisco only cleared out the homeless for XI's visit. They are all back now except of course where Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters etc live.
I am glad to hear someone with reach say what I have been saying for years: homelessness is a symptom, like a fever. You need to figure out why people have the fever: a virus, an infection, heat stroke can all be the cause. Regardless of the cause bringing down the fever is necessary.
Grants Pass isn't close to any other towns. The homeless don't have anyplace to go.
I feel like Jesus would say something like what he did to his disciples when they told him to send people away to find food, right before the feeding of the 5000. He said "You give them something to eat." To these rich pseudo-Christians he would most likely say "You give them somewhere to live." Beau says it's cheaper to be a good person: imprisoning people costs more than housing them.
Helping, being helpful and sharing what one has is an individual's decision - and blessing. Love.
Well said.
In the early days of the Republic, some wag* contrasted it with monarchical Europe as
"In Europe, it's against the law for the poor to sleep under the bridges, but in America it's against the law for the rich or the poor to sleep under the bridges."
* I'm informed it was Anatole France
Harkens back to much older anti-vagrancy laws.
The rule in the US of A, is: The heaviest burdens are carried by those who are least able to do so.
Amen 👍👍👍👍👍help
The ticket for homelessness and Grand pass Oregon is 295 and or jail time. I checked out the website of a couple of churches in grants pass. They don't seem to have a lot to say about it.
Part of the homeless problem in Bend, is that long time locals are being priced out of the market by the immigrants from California. The immigrants, don't want to see the homeless crisis their paying too much for housing is creating.
A good message. Ticketing the homeless is going to backfire. They are homeless because they can't afford housing. So um how do these communities expect the homeless to pay the ticket? Incarcerate the homeless when they can't pay? For the homeless that is free housing, food, and medical care. Yes the homeless may have to work.
Problem is, you usu can't get hired while not having a place. Hard to keep a job under those circumstances.
It's rough. And nobody wants to listen. Which is exactly whats needed.
Problem is, you usu can't get hired while not having a place. Hard to keep a job under those circumstances.
It's rough. And nobody wants to listen. Which is exactly whats needed.
Problem is, you usu can't get hired while not having a place. Hard to keep a job under those circumstances.
It's rough. And nobody wants to listen. Which is exactly whats needed.
My question is:
What is the City _doing_ with the supposed Revenue from this venture?
(Seems like it wouldn't even be enough to pay the cops ... 🤷♀️)
Many unhoused Americans do work. It is estimated that as much as 40-60% of the homeless are employed.
Christians making our lives easier by not letting us see the people who need us most😢
Why are you just blaming Christian what about all the people in Hollywood who own several houses. Why dont they help these people? Yes Christian churches need to do more but so fo all people who hsve more than they need.
The ticket thing makes no sense. How can it be enforced if the person has no address? So many empty buildings and no one has the resources to fix the problem? During COVID, the homeless were put in hotels that could not rent rooms due to virus. It must have been heaven for some. There IS a solution but the will is not there.
The ticket thing makes perfect sense to these people. You don't have to have an address to get one. If you are poor and don't have the money to pay for it, you will go to jail. Tennessee went even further just as many other states have. In Tennessee it is a felony to sleep on public land. They then take your right to vote, own a gun, and get a job. You are then in the system for the rest of your life, and the money rolls into the for profit prisons. This is just a way Christian conservatives can fill those prisons. It's no accident nor coincidence that it is happening just as most of the country has stepped putting poor people in jail for minor possession of marijuana. This is just the next group of people who will fill the prisons.
What is the end of this? How can the homeless pay these tickets. Maybe the end is free room and board in a jail???
It would be cheaper to give them houses. Guards, food, court time, and police time added together dwarfs the cost of free housing. It is fiscally irresponsible, at best. At worst it is sadism.
@@wakewakeywell said!
Great idea. Try to make someone pay with money they don't have. What's next? Prison? Round the homeless up and ship them to another town?
My town did that and the head oh the local United Way, along with the mayor, spoke at a Rotary meeting, declaring we have no homeless here. I heard them myself. Foolishly, this was on a zoom meeting, I happened to be in earshot of someone who was attending the meeting.
Cruelty is as old as sin. It manifests itself in a variety of ways, but it's still the same old same old. And very often its at the expense of the weak and defenceless people because it's easy to prey on them. Nobody is going to rise to defend them, so cruelty and cowardice go hand in hand.
Ironic how they will inevitably sleep on public property when arrested for unpaid tickets.
This lawsuit says a lot about the town that filed it!
Don't kid yourself, it's not just this town. States have made it felonies to do this. Look up Tennessee. They can charge you with a felony for this.
It looks to me like a way for the proprietors of private prisons to make money. If the homeless can't pay tickets for being homeless--presumably, if they had the money, they would be sleeping in motel rooms--then they will, theoretically, wind up in jail. It might be cheaper for towns to pay for motel rooms for the homeless, but that won't happen. The Supreme Court has given permission for this "solution" to spread to other communities and states, and to fix nothing.
It's no coincidence that as many states are getting rid of laws incarcerating people for small amounts of marijuana, that they are now going to fill the prisons with homeless. For profit prisons are the real problem.
They don't like it because it makes them feel guilty, guilty because they are more blessed, guilty because they won't or can't do anything. Maybe they feel guilty because they are landlords making a lot of money renting properties and don't want to lower rents.. If they were to know how much it costs the taxpayer to put an individual into the legal system they might reconsider using the same money in a more humanitarian way.
In a country that spends 800 billion dollars A YEAR on the military industrial complex this ruling is obscene.
As far as communities feeling threatened by the homeless,these communities have a vigilante support crew that does what it can to (force)the homeless off their streets.Law enforcement looks the other way.
Matthew 8 20. The Son of God has nowhere to lay his head.
Having a property empty can let the company get income tax breaks. I suspect that house prices would decrease and commercial buildings would not be empty if that was taken away. I know so many people who have had their rent increased to the point where they have to move out (yet the place doesn't fill the rental that they moved out of. It sits empty.) I know of businesses that had to close because of rent increases, but the building sits empty after they have moved out. It doesn't need to happen. Greed makes that happen, and it leads to homelessness and closed businesses. Tax breaks for the rich are apparently more important than keeping someone from being homeless or keeping a small business open.
The worship of money is too powerful.
In the city I live in we have several locations that are called “tent cities.”
It’s heartbreaking that this is a thing anywhere.
The city has, to my knowledge done nothing more the put a port a potty at these locations. Serious question here, what can we do? The decline in this city is not just the lack of care for other human beings, what can we do?
Unfortunately there’s not much the average person can do outside of donating to food pantries or taking a homeless person to a restaurant. Really it comes down to people have to stop being greedy. A person with six homes has to ask themselves if they really need that. An investor who makes $500k a year has to say I’m good if next year I only get $300k in returns. There’s nothing wrong with being successful and have a lucrative career, but at some point, there’s a responsibility to be content and let others have a chance to be successful.
@@clineshaunt
Or be a better human and help others when you can.
Room for private prison but no roof for the need or work houses
I remember the first time I saw a homeless mom and a couple of kids on the traffic median; never saw it during the 60s & 70s. A side effect of the Moneychangers gaining prominence?
There are missing details… for example, would a carpenter who owns property elsewhere be ticketed for taking a nap in a city park during a lunch break? What if it were a yoga instructor meditating under a tree?
It makes me tearful that people arent guided by the golden rule…being being kind to their neighbors. But Humans arent capable of being kind 24/7, i dont think. You’re right, father. Every community will begin doing this…trying to derive some revenue off homelessness, it is perverse.
💜
One of the laws of the Egyptian Book of the Dead is, “I have not made suffering for anyone.” The Code of Hammurabi says, “Love thy neighbor as oneself.” Ezekiel says, “Do not neglect the poor and needy.” Isaiah says to share your home with the homeless. Matthew says giving to the needy is akin to giving to Jesus. I can keep going but these are good examples. Almost every religion that has ever been has talked about helping the poor, the needy, and the homeless. Sadly though, it seems that a lot of people I know, especially those who are religious don’t mind helping the the poor and needy but, don’t want to even begin talking about the growing homeless crisis. They just want to sweep it under the carpet or push it off on someone else. Applause to you for talking about it, I was hoping to hear your suggestions for remedy.
The problem is determining a person's value. Currently it is your financial status and other markers like your appearance, car, house. That's why I like christian hermits, they often have nothing of value except their spiritual life, and the giftedness God gave them.
You can either end homelessness by giving people homes or giving them homes with staff (prison). Which do you think costs more? As Beau of the fifth column says: it's cheaper to be a good person.
Homelessness is something never really relieved. History, something people never studies, except in social study experiments. NIMBY. HUMANS WILL NEVER SOLVE IT, UNLESS...
I can hear people out if they don't get belligerent with me.
We can always agree to disagree with civility
Rev Trevis calls attn to the lack of feeling of society by just taking homeless off the streets. Conscientious tx payers have a right and duty for self and others to to keep their streets tidy, as they would their own homes. But as Trevis reminds folk, this only takes the homeless out of sight and does nothing to help them?
Leaders are supposed to lead by example? While the best of youth of society for the future of this nation dedicate and sacrifice their lives in armed service, those like the recent Spr of Hse, raked in millions stock options by questionable means? And she, apparently, did little or nothing for those on sidewalks in San Fran, in her district? And then there is the Pres of the U.S., dedicating unaccounted for billions to a lost cause foreign civ war, who, obviously, could also care less about those unfortunates and homeless vets.?
This is caused, like they say, Because of those apathetic , not faced w the same problem? Why are those of other another distant nation more important than ones own citizens? Why couldn't these living in unsanitary conditions, at least be temp placed into tent camps, w meals and some medical attn? This is an indictment against the apathy of all citizens, and especially those in govt authority in a nation, w a lg no, claiming to be Christian? (Pharisees?)😊
Or give them so many tickets that they end up in prison for a while. Then complain and claim that homeless people are getting arrested so they can have housing.
Imagine slaves not slaving as hard as they can for their overlords. There are very rich people that could have another set of golden shower rings but they don’t because those homeless slaves not slaving aren’t as productive as possible for them
Wow, how wonderful are we? Such a shame. There's definitely a need. What do we expect they will do with a ticket? - well here's an idea, the money, time, execution of this will cost what - a decent gift from the City to a Shelter? What about that?
There are fifteen million abandoned homes in the United States and 650,000 homeless people. People could have roofs over their heads and communities could be built up and prosper if people were allowed to live in them. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems like a solution.
How can I stay strong as our rights are being removed?
The Fourth Amendment is Search & Seizure.
The Eighth Amendment is Excessive Bail, which was the basis of the argument. It also includes cruel & unusual punishment, but the argument was over excessive bail.
Otherwise, you were dead-on in your interpretation of the situation.
Dearest brother Ed, I'm a heaven bent, hard core commune-ist....Acts 2:44-45. Invite a WORTHY homeless man home. I was horribly discusted when a retired minister that went to the church I USED TO attend, got in an argument, at church, about this 'degenerate' coming to visit and 'freeload' from our potluck. The minister couldn't help it, he was from Louisiana!😂😢
whoa! but I'm with you. Funny how that passage is never taken literally
Why do we treat each other like this? There are many viable options that do not include fining people. Tackling issue comes with time and money in which most people do not they think they have enough of either.
Although this isn't the best solution, advise the homeless to go to the nearest state park or land. I mean that would at least give a place to camp while they get help with whatever they need. If you can, provide aid, if only to that person.
Carpool to Canada leaving Denver.
The church in this community puts people up for a night or more but they have to work. So the city pays the church to make these homeless people work. So now are we at a point where we have a poor house in every community? Poor, disabled, elderly, children will all end up in these poor house. Christian nation? I find this whole situation disturbing. Seems most don't care anymore in this country. The most wealthy country in the world can't/ won't help poor people. We MUST do more to help the poor.
They would ticket and arrest Jesus and his disciples for sleeping in the city garden.
I agree. Nonetheless, typically tickets have to be paid or you could be jailed. With so many prisons in the US being privately run, but still paid for by taxes, maybe they look at this outcome as a win-win. Likewise in many prisons the prisoners are forced to work making various company's products and be paid pennies a day, if anything at all. I know this is a bit cynical, but it already does occur for other crimes that are not related to violence.
Capitalism can most certainly be cruel.