Why I take Elmax as a backup steel
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- čas přidán 24. 03. 2015
- 3V is extremely tough while Elmax is extremely hard. Elmax sometimes takes the tiniest micro chips from bone contacting even though it is decently tough. I don't like chip restoration which increases the apex angle. So I want to reduce the chances of using the always sharp Elmax.
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so as i understand it, you use elmax steel for backup because even though it can do 6 deer, it's more of a hassle to restore the edge from them micro chips, while 3V is much easier to restore with just a strop despite only lasting 3 deer. sounds good to me, i always like your insight!
I have 4 Bark Rivers myself, 2 Elmax, 2 3v. I use mine for field dressing as well but not for deer. Here in the US, the seasons on Deer are messed up and I don't find sitting in a Deer stand, freezing my ass off to be any fun. I'm a hog hunter and I field dress my hogs about the same way you dress your Deer. (Videos coming soon)
Jason says good things about you. He said you have been great for the knife industry and I can certainly see that.
Thanks Wako for all of your time that you have put into your videos, they have been great!
Which do you prefer on hogs? How many more hogs can the elmax do over the 3v? Thanks
Which do you prefer on hogs? How many more hogs can the elmax do over the 3v? Thanks
Thanks for the information. Makes sense, the elmax is harder to maintain therefore you use it only when necessary.
You say right in a short sentence. Thank you.
So much knowledge in just over 5 minutes.. I keep coming back to this. Many thanks - and for learning another language - Humbled every time.
I really appreciate you taking the time to make these videos,I find them very educational! I wish I had a quarter of your knife collection!
Salute to this guy! Love how he uses how many deer a knife can process as a basis for edge retention, unlike the popular method of others using ropes 😅. His method is better, an experienced deer hunter
Great video about the practical, real world, differences of elmax and 3v. Thanks!
Stainless will never be as tough as carbon, but Elmax is amazing steel. I live in an extraordinarily humid climate, and having a stainless hunting knife on hunting trips means a lot less maintenance.
Thank you for your views. I think I'll go with the 3V or A2 steel for my first Bark River. I really like your videos - Thanks!
Thank you for the interesting video I really enjoyed hearing your opinion on those 2 steels, but luckily for me it only strengthened my love to my Elmax Gunny since in my deer dressing in Germany there is no bone contact necessary(except for one step but there I'm using a saw anyways) and therefore I can enjoy the long sharpness of my knife without having to fear microchips :)) I hope you'll keep up the great work, best regards from a common hunting and Bark River fan (:
Very informative and through video, Wako-san. Thank you for sharing your knowledge
Great video again soo informative ! Thank you for your work !
Just received my first cpm 3v knife, which is an LT Wright Outback in saber grind. Was looking for a heavy general purpose field blade, amd this one I am hoping was a good choice. Thanks for your videos and helpful information
thank you for this very clear and logical explanation!
i get what you are saying about the stropping increasing the blade apex cutting angle. thanks for posting
Thank you for this superb explaining! Greetings from Austria
Thank you for the video. This cements my decision to get a 3V knife from Bark River next.
all of his knifes are scratched mirror finish dedication+hard use 👍. i learned a great deal about knifes steels thank you.
Wako I would be interested to see you try a wicked edge on one of your knives and compare it to your hybrid edge blades. I wonder how it would hold up and what you think of the differences between them. The edges from the wicked edge system are mirrored and beautiful and it would be interesting for you to try it out.
Excellent video. I hunt moose and elk in Canada . I currently use a Brisa 95 in 01 tool steel and like it very much . I think perhaps the 3v will be my next blade to put in my pack as a backup. I don't want the challenge of restoring an Elmax blade in the future.
Dr. Wako, thank you for your informative videos! I have a question: Can you provide some guidance on sharpening small blades? Following your videos I have achieved wonderfully sharp edges on my bushcraft and kitchen knives (I can get the "S" cut on paper!). I cannot, however get a very sharp edge on my smaller blades (e.g. folders). Thoughts? Thanks again, sir!
Have you tried other brands of elmax? From what I know about bark river is they heat those blades from hot grinding and micro quench it often. This causes edge damage and chipping. Getting a very good heat treat protocol that provides microstructure and water cooled grinding and sharpening is the way to go with any steel in a knife. Id suggest finding makers or manufacturer's that will do that.
Love you videos,thank you 👍
Wako, i watch all youre reviews and always look forward to the next video. Would you be interested in doing reviews on youre rifles and pistols?
Enjoyed your review
estimado.
primero que todo quería felicitarlo por todos sus vídeos,son muy buenos y educativos.
me gustaría saber donde comprar las piedras que utiliza para afilar los cuchillos y el strop. Soy de Chile y por estos lados no se encuentran estas cosas. sobre todo buenos cuchillos como los bark knive.
estaré atento a su respuesta,muchas gracias..
When did you learn to speak English, Wako? I've been watching for a while, and your English is very good.
He''s a doctor. Nearly all medical books/journals are in English.
very good video, even today.
Very clear reasoning. I wonder what steels will work all day in the garden cutting green wood, paring and sometimes grafting? Do you know a bushcraft knife that would work? Your game dressing knives cut flesh and sinue and might not perform the same on green wood. Many bushcraft videos show knives cutting dead wood which is not the same. Might make a good comparison video. Great stuff!
James Jacocks I think you need thin Scandi geometry. You will find yours from Mora carbon steel knives. Thanks.
thanks!
was it a mistake to buy the new cpm cruwear as survivalknive? Does it rust to easily and is it to heavy to sharpen outside ?
I like the comparison 1 deer regular steel, 3 deer Elmax and 3v... what would you consider the A2?
I am looking to buy my first Bark River soon. I am going to get a the standard Gunny with ramp. it will be my every day carry knife as well as camping/fishing/light bushcrafting knife. Which still would you recommend between Elmax, CPM 3V or CPM S35VN?
3V is the toughest steel and very rare to chip unless you put too small an angle. Elmax is the hardest steel and its edge holding is awesome though it can take micro chips from bone contacting or hard batoning. S35VN is expected to do almost the same performance as A2 and stainless. Your steel choice depends on what you are planning to do with the knife and what you expect from the steels. Thanks.
I understand, good knowledge
Thanks for all your videos. Very good. What is the best metal from bark river for hunting and survival. A2, 3V or Elmax? Thank You.
+marc8vino If you like sharpening as I do, A2 is highly recommended for all the purposes. For survival tough chores a little large angle of 3V hods by far the longest. For hunting Elmax holds by far the longest in the same small angle as A2. I enjoy A2 and have real purposeful steels like 3V and Elmax. Thanks.
Could you do another cooking style video, were you also talk about a certain knife please ?
Did anyone else feel like they were being lectured by a samarai?
are you from the midwest by any chance?
@@bt7153 I'm from California and this man def sounds like a samarai
How D2 compars to these two steels regarding edge retention after many deer skinning?
Nice English! You are getting better, keep making good videos.
Hi, I wanted to know what is the best stainless steel for a bushcraft knife and survival?
I would be undecided between Elmax and S30V, but I wanted to know which of them would best resist lateral stresses?
Let me know what your choice would be, a greeting
S30V is definitely brittle in comparison with A2 or 3V. Current Elmax is pretty tough and seems nice for survival. But S35VN seems like having more a decent history of proven toughness. Thanks.
Try cru wear steel it’s tough like 3v but has far better edge retention
What kind of Japanese carbon steel is used on the Hultafors GK heavy duty knife? (maybe you can tell?) Thank you.
Hultafors uses SK-5 high carbon steel on their Heavy Duty knife.
Informative. Thank you for all the effort!
Thanks for your explanation. So you feel that 3V is the best all around steel for woods/hunting?
Yes.
What is your opinion of VG10?
Most woodsmen would disagree strongly with this choice. I certainly would. But it does depend on the woods you're entering, and where you're hunting. If there's any chance of running into a survival situation, and cutting edge I have is going to be 1095CV. It's a choice that could save your life.
I don't think the average person is going to like sharpening 3V. I also don't think the average person will like trying to sharpen any of the new "super" steels. Most simply aren't going to be able to sharpen them at all with the tools they have.
I really don't see any positive attributes in any of the "super" steels when used for working knives. No steel is really "super". It just isn't. Higher HRC, more abrasion resistance, sounds wonderful, and it can be. But both of these can also be serous disadvantages in a working knife.
Watch the sharpening videos here, especially of the new steels. If you can't do that, you don't want that steel.
James Ritchie I was surprised how easy it was to sharpen 3v. For me the question whether to take blad that won't rust or one that is super tough.
3V is ridiculously easy to sharpen. Most will never even need water stones or anything hard, just leather strops and compound.
thx a lot for this !!
I have to buy my first bark river, and I' d like to ask you :
what do you think about cru wear? it will take chips, o it will roll?
The Cru-Wear is a little harder than 3V and a little less tougher than 3V. But I don't think we can notice the difference really in use because the 3V is already super durable. I know 3V rolls but don't know what Cru-Wear does.
@@virtuovice thank you very much for your answer
What do you think of 3g from falkniven now. From previous videos you said you liked it over 3v because it doesn't chip like 3v.
+BladeAddict8 I don't have any 3G knives now. I remember 3G is a little softer and tougher than Elmax.
What about cruwear?
Please update us
Maybe somebody can answer. Those are BarkRiver knives right? Is the best place to buy them from the main site directly?
Ill throw my 2 cents at ya. Best prices and service combined ive experienced is either DLT trading or knives ship free.
Yes they are Bark River knives and where to get them depends on where you live, in the US pretty much all webpages(excluding ebay) are imho a good place to get them, from anywhere else I'd probably recommend the bark river webpage or just to make contact with them and ask if there are any official stores with Bark River knives in your country, their service is great :)
www.theknifeconnection.net/ has pretty good prices and great service as well. Enjoy!
autoinject +1 on DLT Trading! Jason (The owner) is an awesome guy to deal with. I buy all of my knives & sharpening supplies from him. Not to mention that if you become a multiple repeat customer, he starts making deals with you and will also hold knives for you..
I find Derrick (The owner) at knives ship free to be difficult to work with though.
Hog Wylder Thanks for sharing that brother... always thought DLT had better selection than KSF.
Hello, I wanted to know if according to your Elmax experience is truly the best stainless steel knife in your opinion?
Yes. Elmax is by far the most durable stainless steel in my experience and its inevitable micro chips as a hard stainless steel is minimum. Thanks.
My family would like to purchase me a knife for $200 or less, so I am leaning towards a pocket knife? The Zero Tolerance 0566 comes with Elmax. In your opinion, is Elmax a good steel for Pocket knives? If you were to purchase a pocket knife for EDC, hunting, etc... (brand, model) which knife would you purchase? Thank you!
+bridgesbushcraft Elmax is awesomely durable no doubt. It must be one of the best steels for folders. I like Benchmade 551 the best of all my folders for its versatility. Thanks.
Wako, in regards to the Elmax chipping maybe its a defect? I heard a lot of early batches had an issue with chipping due to the heat treatment not being done correctly.
I say so few times....but NO Bark River is perfect company...yes american company and they censorship all bed comments or have ridiculous explanations like
'theorem hanging branches'....ha ha
chumaman According to Mike Stewart, (owner of Bark River) the dealers were hounding him for over a year to make blades in ELMAX but he wouldn't do it because his experimental blades were performing badly. He later found out from another maker that the heat treat had to be 60-61 for it to perform the right way. Once he started doing that, the blades came out correctly.
Definitely not a perfect company but they do make better knives than most other makers and the warranty is considered one of the best in the knife world. Mike will honor it and he gets the work done FAST!
anymore flashlight videos?
So, do you think if you took less deer per year, perhaps 5 or 6 for a whole season, you would choose to take the Elmax?
I thought he meant 5-6 a day
3V is stronger against lateral stress. So 3V is a better steel for animal processing. If we use Elmax very carelessly against bones, it will take micro chips easily. Thanks.
How about A2 steel? Would you ever consider that as a back up?
Any good steels which can hold for 2 deer can make a backup. A2 is good but I don't think A2 is enough. I take Elmax for my backup secondly because it is a stainless steel. Thanks.
Hello doc, nice vid. Do you the 4v steel from br?
4V Gameskeeper was no better than 3V in my experience.
virtuovice Thanks doc. They make the scandy in 3v to. It's to expencive for me but it looks nice. Regards.
Soo 3V is how i feel about Cruwear. I just strop CPM Cruwear indefinately and it keeps on going. Elmax chips badly when carving wood for me
I too have found some micro chips (micro as in the sense you need at least a X10 lens to see them) in my ELMAX alloy blade but really have not found them to be detrimental to any outdoor activity with this knife, a TRC K1. ELMAX is really made for the knife maker. It allows one to grind and shape the blade in the hardened state, something which is highly beneficial for knife makers.
Bush Camping Tools you said that elmax is an alloy steel so is it really stainless steel? Cause there is a lot of people that say that its a high carbon steel.
which is your favorite steel overall for both hunting and some bushcrafting ?
+Onix Pyro A2 is fairly durable and fairly tough in a very small angle. So I love it the best for regular hunting/bushcraft tasks. 3V is pretty durable but a little chippy in a very small angle. So it needs a little larger angle than A2 in my experience. I think 3V is the best suited steel for batoning or such hard use. Elmax has the longest edge retention of the three steels. But it is a little chippy in a very small angle. But its micro chips are very tiny and don't affect its cutting performance. So it is always the sharpest for hunting. But I don't know about its impact resistance yet. I love A2 the best for a day hiking/hunting. I love 3V for my survival knives. I love Elmax for hunting trips for a few days.
+virtuovice what super steels have you used that disappointed you
have you ever used m4 , s35vn,n690,52100, or cpm 20cv?
+Dan Hazard I have no experience with M4 and CPM 20CV. I think N690 is an upper class regular steel like VG-10.
+virtuovice learned something new today.
the experience i have with n690 is only with fighting knives i purchased
and a skinning knife i had in n690co was shaped perfectly for knife self defense
i have seen/heard of only a few people that used 52100 and n690 for skinning big game butbthought maybe it wasnt a popular choice or well known
but that makes sense
thanks
wako
danH
@ Dan Hazard & virtuovice... Off the topic of hunting and into that of EDC for a minute... I chose to get a Spyderco Spy-DK folder in N690, despite its being two-handed opening, as one very lightweight EDC option for days around the shore and on small boats because of N690's very high corrosion resistance combined with the ultra-minimalist, easy cleaning, self-serviceable design of the slip joint Spy-DK. It's a very underrated, ergonomic 'Caly / UKPK' family design (👍) with a slip joint geometry hardly different in stability than with Spyderco's smaller lock backs, in practice. The N690 should tend to roll an edge slightly with use (resisting chipping pretty well) and come back nicely via stropping. More practical for wet environment EDC duties than the H1 'Salt' knives? I think so, definitely... and way more compact and *much* cheaper than LC200N 'Salt' style options to date (I have a Native 5 'Salt' in LC200N now, too).
This could be a practical small adjunct knife for some outdoorsy folks at only 1.90 ounces carry weight in a slim package. Notably cheap to buy now, since Denmark's former restrictive knife laws have been eased up -- the reason for the two-handed Spy-DK design in the first place. FYI.
How many deer can you do with A2 STEEL ?
If I process a large stag thoroughly, A2 will hold sharp enough for one and a half deer honestly speaking. Regular steels will hold for a single deer or less.
Thanks enjoy your day.
my mora robust get blade edge rolls after striking plastic. I binned this knife
You need more Buck knives!
SENPAI :
What steel is the best retention with the least rolls /chips ?
CPM 3V ?
In my experience, Yes.
80crv2 is good alternative much easier to sharpen,you lose a bit of edge retention but the toughness is very close.Never had chips or rolls on my 80crv2 knives.It's a better steel for the average user. (Always keep in mind,that geometry of the edge and heat treatment play a bigger role than the steel itself)
@@greekveteran2715 80crv2 is junk
In one of your videos you said fallkniven 3g steel doesn't chip but 3v steel chips. Also, it is a well known fact that 3g steel holds edge better than 3v steel.
But u still recommend 3v steel and not 3g steel. Why?
Why 3g steel is not better than 3v steel in your opinion?
In my current opinion both 3V and 3G are not brittle at all. They don't take micro chips at all. 3V feels just to hold 1.5 times longer than 3G
I'm just wondering. Why don't you just strop a non-chipping knife between deer? It only takes a minute and a strop will surely be lighter than another knife.
He mentioned the concern of losing his primary. "Anything can happen on a hunting trip."
Any deer dishes coming up? It's been a while.
I also love the deer dishes!
Man you are quite qualified to establish a knife university including sharpening and honing, steels, designs, brands, utilisations departments. Please do it otherwise it would be a waste to human science and skills.
Hello Doctor, I really enjoy your videos, but I have friends in the industry, and some of them tell me Elmax is a good blade steel but they also say for folders and not so much for fix blades, what is your opinion on this, to me it would be better to carry a smaller fix blade with a equally similar steel than changing the steel because it's a back up knife, first of all where I go and what I do in the bush (wilderness) it makes a lot of sence to carry a suitable steel for my blades that I would feel safer with and ultimately trust my life on it, my first choice ofcorce would be the INFI Steel, secondly I like the 3V because the higher you go the more brittle it becomes 3V seems to be a pretty good edge retention and not so hard to keep it sharp then the Bohler ei. N960Co, and properly cryo and deferentially tempered 52100 (which is one of my fav's). then the tool steel's ei. A-2, 0-1 etc, finally the 1095 CroVan and the 5160. then some of the stainless ei. S30V, S35V, CPM's,VG-10, 440C, but because of the exceptional corrosion and toughness again my favorite still is the INFI, I don't process as much meat as you do but I do process alot of wood, shelters, fires (cooking on a open fire), etc., etc., etc., May I ask a qyestion, if your happy with let say the 3V why would you change steel because of it being a back up.
Elmax is harder to maintain, but always the sharpest and stain less. So I always put an Elmax knife on my hunting belt and feel very easy with it. But except for hunting, I won't carry an Elmax survival knife because I cannot believe in its impact resistance. If Bark River makes Elmax Bravo, it should be a hard choice. Thanks.
Thank You for your reply, I endorse your thought on Elmax, That's why I like my Busse Nuclear Meltdown Fussion Steel Heart for my Survival Knife, as far as I'm concerned it's an all climate type of knife steel, from the harshest freezing cold to the hottest jungle weather, holds a great edge, easy to sharpen and very stain less, yet extremely tough as a knife goes, Thank You, Doctor PhD in Knives.
Why not bring along another 3V knife as backup then?
+portydert portydert It's because Elmax can take a little smaller angle than 3V where Elmax can chip but its chip size is very tiny and does't affect its sharpness, so Elmax is always the sharpest to me. The point is Elmax holds the sharpest edge for the longest time in spite of its tiny micro chips.
Why not take a 3v backup? Or, find an Elmax at a lower RC than what you've experienced chipping with ...? Enjoy you videos ;-)
Wako. Why don't you take an extra 3V knife with you?
Maybe backup has to be stainless.
ferizb It's not like 3V will rust. I mean, every steel will to some degree, but in the case of 3V, that's nothing he should worry about.
Elmax + 3v = 9 deers; 3v + 3v = 6 deers. I don't know...
ferizb You are right.
Is this real
You should make the 3v your back up, and a strop, problem solved
I thought this was stranger things 3 ships 🤦♀️😂
I wanted to see elmax things so I searched it on CZcams and this came up
Opinel test!
Very hard = very brittle
This man needs an English translator, ✌️😁
How can he kill 4 deer in one day? Aren't any hunting laws in Japan.? Any guy with a shotgun can go kill whatever he wants?