The Lapsed Fan: Dave Meltzer on Starrcade 2000
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- čas přidán 19. 07. 2016
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As part of The Lapsed Fan wrestling podcast's Starrcade Memorial Tour, the Wrestling Observer's Dave Meltzer weighed in with his recollections of each event. Here, Meltzer discusses Starrcade 2000.
Check out the full Lapsed Fan episode at
Part 1
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Part 2
www.spreaker.com/user/1134891...
Follow the show on Twitter @TheLapsedFan
All this time I’ve wasted on other wrestling podcasts and never new this one existed! 🤯
just stumbled onto this lapsed fan channel here and im seeing over a dozen dave meltzers interviews, cant wait to put these on while im at work..thanks for posting
They covered every Starrcade AND every WrestleMania that had happened at time of recording.
Irony was that the show actually improved slightly in its final few months, at least WCW had stopped playing merry-go-round with their World title.
I thought that even Davey liked fall brawl 2000. Halloween Havoc 2000 was really disappointing after fall brawl 00.
These are great, really serve as retrospectives on the specific year's angles/business just as much as a "summary" of a specific PPV. Thank you!
These were fantastic, I could listen to Meltzer talk about the history of the business all day. The only criticism I really have is anytime Meltzer talked about Flair circa 1989-1991 it was like he was just quoting whatever crap Flair has said in his book on interviews. Flair had no intention of putting Windham or Luger over on his way out. He always had an excuse whether it was the deposit on the belt or "I promised Sting". His whole value to Vince was bringing the NWA Title with him to the WWF. Anything else is just nonsense on Flair's part and he's never given any reason why he never ever put Luger over.
You're right but to be fair Luger did suck so it was probably better off
Luger was terrible.
no he wasn't, damn mark
Ric flair is massively overrated
Because Lex Lugar fucking sucks
Wcw fan base would not follow their guys to WWF. WWF ran off 2 to 5 million fans almost immediately and have run off another 7.5 million fans since the attitude era
They did. I've seen modern fans make fun of the people that watched wcw until the end like we watched raw right after that "with our tail between our legs"...ratings said and say otherwise. We didn't switch over WWF never got a bump we simply tuned out. I only checked into see goldberg and booker until i got sick of hhh burying them.
@@chrismorgan8330 what's crazy was Vince would have spent less buying out wcw guys contracts and had a real invasion and just hired everyone from wcw and make smackdown nitro and wcw fans would have given it a chance. They lost millions of viewers buying wcw. And even more burying Booker and ddp.
These was great thanks for upload
What happened to you? Why do you now peddle the anti-Meltzer routine when four years ago you clearly respected Dave?
This is the Dave I remember.
I laughed when they list the bunch of stupid laying down finishes, while they try to think of the right one they are talking about. Nash laying down for Hogan, Sting and Hogan, Jarrett for Hogan, La Parka and Bagwell. So damn terrible
And the one where Goldberg walked out during a Triple Threat with Steiner and Nash cause he "refused to job" to Nash because they told you on air that Nash booked himself over Goldberg for Starrcade (I guess this was their way of erasing that loss or something?) , and says "Fuck you!" to Russo. Then the commentators are like "Well that was off script, I guess these guys are having to improvise!" So basically, this whole show has been fake, but this is real right here, so these guys are faking but it's real because they have to come up with a finish on the fly (but the people on the inside know they're faking faking because this was all planned), and then they're back to pretending it's all real again in the next damn match haha what a clusterfuck. Russo was an idiot for that worked shoot bullshit
A RA YES. That. That was the single stupidest 'angle', or whatever the fuck it was, I have ever witnessed in a wrestling show. That is what I point toward when people try to defend Russo's shit. It accomplished nothing, confused thousands and lead to nothing. I hate that it hardly gets brought up, it is such a perfect picture of everything you could do wrong when running a promotion.
Nash laying sown for Hogan was actually him sparing the audience the horror of the match they would have had...
;---)
Awsome podcast!! Everyone shits on Dave Meltzer.. Right or wrong the man meltzer is very entertaining
Oh yeah!
It's not really true that 'everyone shits on Meltzer'. He has his faults but some people decide to focus entirely on those faults and ignore everything else about him.
I never watched TNA, I had been so turned off to WCW in 99, I quit watching wrestling, but I remember hearing about like Sting or Flair and being like "Oh, it's kinda like trying to recreate WCW..." So, I think they could've lured that lost WCW fan base back in, but I also remember being like "Oh they're pushing Jeff Jarret as a main eventer, I guess they're trying to recreate shitty WCW" and it sounds like they were just as bad and mismanaged and unfocused
A RA yea TNA could easily have tried to recreat WCW but since Jarrett was running it, it would never be as a cool ever. For a long time TNA had more of a cheap ECW vibe than WCW.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 nooo stop it!!! with the ECW kid no way , WWE did a better job in 2005/2006
When you watch the WWE produced “Monday Night Wars” bits they take a shit on WCW for dropping the women’s title in the trash but they had Flair parade around the WCW title on their TV.
What does he mean with his reference to a conversation between schiavone, tenay, and heenan?
Meltzer explains in another edition of these- the conversation between the three was about how when they beat Goldberg the first time (against Nash), the company was going to take a huge hit. Heenan and Tenay said to Schiavone that the Goldberg loss would hurt WCW, Schiavone disagreed and somewhat mocked the two.
I assume it's the 1998 edition, by the way.
@@MattSingh1 it is.
Heenan knew.
Heenan always knew.
2001 was the year the wrestling business completely collapsed. So many selfish people took a company that was the hottest wrestling company in the world and destroyed it within 4 thus costing so many people jobs and hurting the industry as a whole.
I want to hope Tony Khan will not make the same mistakes but he needs to start being a boss instead of the wrestler’s friend otherwise we will be doing a retrospective about the death of AEW.
WCW was hot because of the Nwo
That's the only reason it got hot. Because when that storyline started to fizzle out so did WCW's popularity.
Goldberg would have had a better run if Rocky was still there. HHH was jealous of anyone who had a bigger name than him (Goldberg & Rock) or anyone that was more talented than him Jericho, Booker, RVD are just a few guys that he held back.
Goldberg was definitely not held back in WWF. They basically put him over everyone until he didn’t want to re-sign so they had him do a couple jobs on the way out.
@@iggymcfly they didn't do it right though. I was still a middle schooler when goldberg went to wwe and even then what they did with him after backlash slowly ran me right back out of wrestling which I'd barely watched since the collapse of wcw.
Wasn't like I was an overly critical fan or knew anything about "booking" or "backstage politics" the goldberg storylines were poorly handled and a child could see it.
i think if you look back at every thing even if they were able to get on tv again after every thing. the money wouldnt be there they would have been a TNA level brand. lets face lets say after the whole stone cold walking out thing the money wouldnt have been there to pick him up. no would would have gone over besides the bottom card stars that did for TNA so. WCW would have been gone with in 5 years.
I wish Bischoff did buy and re start. They may never have beaten WWE but the 2000s WCW would have had CM Punk, Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Bryan Danielson, Prince Devitt, Karl Anderson, Kenny Omega and a boatload of great main even matches starting in 2005 and still going today.
Επαμεινωνδας Κοσμας To proclaim wcw would have signed all those guys is complete fantasy
WWE has most of those guys now and their shows are still terrible.
I don't think bischoff's wcw would have had those guys
He is saying WCW would of got indy wrestlers who Vince would not give a chance.
"Mismanagement," in a broad and general way, sure did kill WCW. But what led to the mismanagement? Overly skewed, horribly written contracts which shouldn't have existed in the industry but that put far too much power in the hands of peons who lacked business savvy but sure had fragile egos and only cared about putting themselves over. Meanwhile, the guys with genuine merit were held down by those with the fragile egos and lack of talent. Mismanagement of resources is a nice way of putting a spin on antimeritocratic nepotistic hustling at the expense of a perceived gravy train that would never end. It wasn't just Hall, Nash, & Hogan either-- Flair got his talentless sons tons of camera exposure, Goldberg was paid millions to be so green he injured far better wrestlers in their peak years, the gimmicking of "the Warrior" (all to feed the Hulkster) led to trap doors that injured more talent, numerous out-of-vogue bands, athletes, and B-list entertainers got unnecessary lucrative deals, and of course, no one can forget the two best con-men of all, Russo and Bischoff. The former took credit for everything that made money for the WWF when he contributed nothing to it (even Stone Cold -- if you want a laugh, read Russo's claim to have hatched the "Sharpshooter screwjob" finish in Montreal, followed by Foley's characterization of the same event in his book [Russo claimed innocence], followed by HBK's more believable claim that he coordinated with Vince to use Bret's planned reversal-of-Sharpshooter spot against him [corroborated by the fact that Bret was in the process of reversing the Sharpshooter when the bell rung]). Similarly, Bischoff was simply the luckiest "non-wrestling guy" to have ever worked for a wrestling promotion, being at the right place at the right time when Turner's suits decided they needed a "non-wrestling TV guy" to take the corporation in a new direction, and being at the right place at the right time once again during a tour of Japan, where he "borrowed" the invasion angle. I suppose it's no surprise Bischoff thinks of himself as solely responsible for such things, after all, we do live in the age where people believe we subconsciously create all of those serendipitous synchronicities that work to our advantage through the "law of attraction." Both of these guys are no more than literal "jobbers" in the traditional, original sense of the term's meaning, spineless confidence men climbers with no genuine ability except being able to exploit opportunities generated by market efficiencies and the innovations of superior men. Russo's "finding God" book, "Unforgiven," has to be one of the most hilarious things I've ever read; it's still obvious he possesses no insight whatsoever, and it's no surprise that he finds his God through guys like Joel Osteen, i.e., con men.
smodelux tremendous
Can you post Starrcade 2001?
TrippleCyan ??
The one with Dusty, Nash and JJ?
TrippleCyan Are you a Moron??
I guess you're not a REAL wrestling fan
TrippleCyan you must of got a hold of that breaking bad type meth. Enjoy I guess
I should be amazed that the same people who destroyed WCW were then hired by TNA and helped to destroy that company as well. People like Nash, Hogan, Russo, etc should be banned from wrestling.
Anusar jile mein kul
Lets hope Aew stays around
Lol AEW is a joke. They can't even get a million viewers.
@@christerry1611 Babbling nonsense- AEW has drawn millions of dollars on PPV. Typical anti-AEW internet smark douche.
Turner owned wcw so they would have not paid TV rights for it
They did pay TV rights starting with Bischoff
Russo catered too much to the smart marks which make up .5% of the audience , you get 4/5/6 million watching tv back in 98-99 and only a few hundred thousand bought the PPV’s , i suppose it’s like the Marvel movies they make billions and sell billions in merch but comic book sales do not reflect the popularity of the movies
Dave sounds like a..........