Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
trinities 379 - AI and I evaluate my debate with James White
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 03. 2024
- trinities.org/... The way to evaluate a debate is to actively chart and compare the arguments made by each side. Debaters call this “flowing” a debate.
I sat down and did this, working carefully all the way through my recent debate with James White on the question “Is Jesus Yahweh?”
In this episode I’ll give you my evaluation of the debate, with an assist from the cutting edge Chat Debate Beta AI. She and I even go so far as to declare a winner!
Do you agree? Why or why not? How would you have argued one side or the other differently
I’ve been interviewed several times about the debate; see the videos @ trinities.org/...
Links for this episode @ trinities.org/...
the fully produced video of the debate
Who Should Christians Worship?
Microsoft Copilot
Identity
Restitutio 451 Wisdom Christology in Hebrews 1.10-12 (Jerry Wierwille) July 8, 2022
Restitutio 450 Seven Interpretive Options for Hebrews 1.10-12 (Jerry Wierwille) June 30, 2022
Restitutio 449 Intertextuality and Interpretation of Hebrews 1 (Jerry Wierwille) June 23, 2022
This week’s thinking music is “Dit it and Quit It” by Van Loon.
Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
This week's thinking music is "Dit it and Quit It" by Van Loon. freemusicarchi...
This evaluation was great! I learned a lot more listening to Dale’s and AI’s explanations of the elements of debate than I learned from listening to the debate itself! That’s because I study the Bible, and theology, but I’ve never studied the elements of a formal debate. It helps a lot knowing the ground rules. Thanks for doing this video Dale!
Nearly spat my coffee at 38:30. I appreciate your work, Dr. Tuggy!
Tuggy won the debate! It was an easy decision!
*John 12:44* (LEB)
"Then Jesus cried aloud: “Whoever believes in me believes not in me but in *HIM WHO SENT ME."*
Where can i get this bot?
I agree with your position in the debate (that Jesus is not Yahweh), but just had a question about the AI answer around 15:00 regarding the equality proposition. A=B and B=A. AI said it is not possible for A to equal B but for B not to equal A. But the first thing I thought of is the square is a rectangle but rectangle is not a square example. Is this a different thing from A=B and B/=A proposition? I do not have a background in logic, etc so am just curious. Great job at the debate and in your breakdown of the debate here!
The key word is “equal.” A rectangle does not “equal” a square. A square is a subset of a rectangle which is described as a shape with four sides at 90 degree angles. A square is additionally defined as having 4 sides of equal length.
@@tomraddatzah, that's helpful, thank you!
I do evaluate the position I disagree with but like most non-trinitirians you misrepresent the doctrine of the trinity
Do you realize there are many varieties of “Trinity”? How can you misrepresent something when the proponents of it claim it is a mystery that can’t be understood implying they cannot adequately define or understand it? When Trinitarians can quote scripture that in and of itself defines, describes, and explains the Trinity, then come back and complain that someone is misrepresenting it.
@@tomraddatz That's not what is meant by the "Mystery" part of the trinity. For example, can you truly understand and explain that God is eternal? You cant! because we as humans don't understand in-finite things with out finite minds. So God's omnipresence and eternal existence is also a "mystery". While you are correct that there are many "varieties" of the trinity. James White clearly identified his view in the debate, and that is the most commonly held view by 95% + of all Christians and Catholics. If you listened carefully to the debate, white lays out his exact definition and view of the the trinity. Tuggy does sometimes blur the line of what White is representing in the trinity. Almost all non-trinitarian believers I have encountered and dialogued with truly truly don't understand the fundamental belief of that the trinity is. Even if they verbalize that they do and restate the common trinity belief, they fail to apply it when discussing / debating it
@@peterhrkal8165 You said, “For example, can you truly understand and explain that God is eternal? You cant! because we as humans don't understand in-finite things with out finite minds. So God's omnipresence and eternal existence is also a "mystery.”
Well, our Bibles contradict your conclusion. The Bible says…
“19…that which is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse.” Romans 1:19-20
“You are my witnesses, says YHWH, and [you are] my servant whom I have chosen; that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. (Isaiah 43:10)
So, yes, the Bible explicitly states that we can understand even God’s eternal power and divinity. You claim I can’t explain it, but I can. The Bible says “God is love.” Love is an eternal reality, but love itself doesn’t have personality. It matters not whether love is manifested or not for it to be a reality. The elements of love, as described in 1 Cor. 13, would be just as applicable if one is on the earth, or the moon, or in heaven, or outer space. Where ever you go, love is real. Same with God except He is a reality with a personality. So yes, I can explain even God’s eternal nature using both the bible and creation.
On the other hand, the reason we can’t understand the Trinity isn’t because it is beyond understanding, it is because it is inherently self-contradictory. If you have 3 persons who are each fully god, then you have three gods, unless you are a Trinitarian. For a Trinitarian each is fully God because they share the deific substance (homoousious according to the ancients). But the Bible never ever once explains God as “one substance,” let alone as one substance that is shared by three coequal beings. The ideas of “one substance” and “persons” in the godhead were literally adopted directly from pagan views of God. In reality, if you have three persons who fully share the same substance, then you have three persons, you don’t have three persons in one substance. We wouldn't look at three people and claim they were "one human in three persons." Furthermore, if it requires each of the persons to equal the “one God” then each of the persons would only be “1/3 of God.” If we had "one human in three persons" and one of them died, we wouldn't say that the "one human" is now only 2/3rds of humanity. But what would happen if one of the three persons of the Godhead "were not"? You say its not possible, but as soon as someone denies there are three persons in the Bible Trinitarians claim they don't have God-the-Trinity. Obviously, a Trinitarian God void of one of the persons would be 2/3rds of God thus making each of the members themselves only 1/3 of God, thus the Trinitarian claim that they are each fully God is simply self-contradictory unbiblical nonsense, not "a mystery that can't be understood." What I explained is what creation would tell us, so the biblical statement that we can know and understand God by creation is negated by the self-contradictory Trinity doctrine. But Trinitarians don’t want to “admit” the self-contradictory nature of the Trinity so they call it a “mystery.” Which simply means that calling it a "mystery" is Trinitarianism’s attempt to get gullible people to believe in an unbiblical, self-contradictory, paganized version of a very Jewish Messiah and the God that he worshiped and taught us to worship, saying, "the Lord our God is one" and then commended the man who said our God is one he and there is no other. But Trinitarians don't believe that unless they can redefine the word he to mean them. Just like certain people today want you to call them by different pronouns, Trinitarians pioneered that idea by claiming we should speak of God as "we" not "he" as He claimed of Himself when He said, "I am that I am" not "We are that We are."
I'm not watching this episode and just here to drop a comment:
Anybody else besides just me realize that Artificial Intelligence is a kind of man-made "all-knowing" god?
And that interaction with one is equivalent to a modern-day ouija board?
Divination is an abomination.
Yep.
@ken440
Of course, you would have eyes to see, Brother Ken. Not surprising. :)
YaH Bless.
Dale Tuggy is the most boring human being alive today.
But he's not nauseating like you are.
And that same person utterly destroys trinitarians all the time.
There's something hilariously non-boring about someone so completely boring. He is uniquely gifted to do what he does and that is as entertaining as anything I've ever seen in Christianity, which is a place of near complete boredom otherwise. Would you rather hear someone talk who can actually think or someone talk who can only repeat formulaic slogans and lingo the way James White does? White would have made a good Grand Inquisitor back in the days of the Reformation.
That would be you
Some need excitement to be able to tolerate deep topics. Give me thoughtful analysis over theatrics any day. This world is full of exciting performers if that’s what you need.