Crying Over Pay
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2023
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I worked with some friends at a shitty hunting and camping store after I got out of the military. I was 26, I had some college under my belt, I had a bunch of experience working in the field, and I got along great with customers. I repeatedly tried to demonstrate my worth and thought I was doing a good job at it. We had several hiring waves where all the new hires would walk out, and on more than one occassion I found out that the new hires (high school kids most of the times) got hired in at $18 an hour, meanwhile I was getting paid $10.50 an hour. I finally got irritated one day and decided to bring up my pay with my manager saying how is it fair you hire kids in at 18 but im making almost 10 bucks less. Most these kids live at home, while im struggling to figure out how much gas costs to get to work? They told me that even though they announced how much they made as they quit, that im still technically discussing pay so they will do me a favor and not fire me for breaking company policy, so long as I never bring up my wages again.
Later on I had a group project for my college class I asked three weeks in advance on to have the day off for, they told me that day was first day of Archery Season and my manager had already called dibs on that day (without putting in any paperwork) so I was gonna have to skip my class project to come in. The manager said they already made travel plans and was taking the whole family out. This project was vital to me passing the class and i had to be there in person, so on that particular day, I went in to work, told them I quit and gave them a letter of resignation, and then I drove to my campus. One of my friends told me a little while after the manager dropped their family off and then drove all the way back to the store to cover all my shifts since I quit so abruptly.
I fuckin hate retail.
You should just fuckin hate that guy, unless his name is retail, then hate retail.
Absolutely fucking sucks. But good on ya
big middle finger to retail. bigger middle finger to shit management. if i was aware new highers where getting that big of a pay difference i'd be finding a new job by the end of the week
Next time tell then to please go ahead and fire you for discussing pay and if they would be so kind to write that out on the termination notice and you'll be happy to sign it. Then take that to an employment lawyer and watch their face might up with glee.
Could have reported them to board of labor and sued them.
That sir, was an absolute masterclass on how to work with employees.
And,how to deal with the boss. Back when I was still a laborer I would have loved to work for you. Closest job I had to what you do was cleaning in ground fuel tanks. Mostly furnace oil but, some gasoline. I had quite a strong dislike for my co-worker as he was a slacker and disembler, always had an excuse for his inability to be where he was supposed to be... and remain awake. The boss would shrug, hang his head and mutter something to the effect that we needed to learn to get along. Three months later I walked.
I feel you would have stepped in.
“Evil takes effort, and most people are lazy”.
Spoken like a true blue collar guy. I love it.
Spoken like someone who wants a lawsuit. 😂
Both those statements are true, but that's why shit flows downhill. People don't do evil things to people of higher social or political standing, because that takes effort. They beat their wife and kids who are dependent on them. They're cruel to people who are already struggling. They're vicious to animals. They terrorize their underlings at work. That's the combination of evil and lazy where most people live.
Evil doesn't take as much effort as one might think.
This is how I judge all politicians. Not evil just lazy and stupid.
Truer words have never been spoken.
The flip side is that I worked for a company for over 20 years and got to the point I could pretty much step into any position and take over their job. Yet my employer routinely brought in high school graduates that didn’t know shit, put them above me and paid them more than I was making. These entitled little shits were usually some kind of manager’s kids or their friends and I ended up doing their job and mine. finally one day, I had enough and do I waited until a Big Crunch came in and I walked in, took a look around and said” I’m done” and started cleaning out my locker. The big boss came in and started screaming at me that I couldn’t quit without 2 weeks notice. “ just watch me” I said “ at will employee”. I then walked to my car and never looked back. I don’t know what happened to them but I am fine and wished I had done it 20 years earlier.
FEEL LIKE CANNON FODDER IN A CAPITALISTIC MACHINE? THIS IS WHERE THE US IS NOW WITH "THE LABOR PROBLEM" !
Years ago I was a non union electrician. I asked for a raise and got shot down. My Forman had me going behind another guy to fix his mistakes and the mistakes he made were things that even a first year apprentice would know better than to do. When I found out this guy was making $8 per hour more than me, I was pretty pissed and I started looking for another job and when I quit, I told hr how I felt.
Human Resources works for the company. They don’t give a damn about the employees.
@@leonardhirtle3645It hit me hard when I realized this around 23. Always thought they were supposed to support the workers. It really should be that way.
@@leonardhirtle3645until it's more expensive to keep replacing people.
@leonardhirtle3645 not wage related but not only does HR not care but the corporate big wigs don't care either. One time I worked for a multi state chain of assisted living facilities in a non licensed position. However, I do hold a license in my state so I have to be careful to protect that license. Anyhow, the facility was constantly understaffed and could not keep employees so I put in my two weeks notice but agreed to stay on prn. However, I missed a mandatory meeting that was required to meet state requirements (in reality you read the in-service handout, took a "test" and the talk was about bs stuff that they never followed through on) because I was working somewhere else on the day of the meeting. I did have these training requirements meet at my other job and I probably would have been ok but they didn't know that. So a couple of weeks later one of the corporate big wigs called me because they were short staffed and were desperate. I told her that I missed that mandatory meeting and hadn't had time to go in to make it up. She said that was ok and they could worry about it later. Since she obviously wasn't worried about doing the right thing I thought I would tell her why they couldn't keep staff there. She didn't want to hear it and said her priority was finding someone to work that night but would call me another time to discuss the issue. That was in 2020 and I've never Heard from them since.
I work for a guy that pays me more than he pays himself. I'm the highest paid person that works there and some days i feel over paid. It makes me feel appreciated and drives me to make sure i earn my paycheck.
Small businesses and sole proprietorships often work much differently than larger corporations. When I had my own business I didn't have a list of rules or personnel manual or . . . We opened at 9:00 AM and closed at 5:30 PM. but I didn't keep a record. I fired one person during the 21 years that my shop was opened. I hired him back after a year. We worked well together for a couple of years before he left for a similar job at a university -- better pay and benefits. I would have made more money working for a big company than owning my own small business but I loved being self-employed. I just wish I had started at a younger age.
I don't know about that because at least he is getting tax exemptions and the company is worth more and more daily
As an owner of a small business, it's not unusual for employees to make more than the boss. Maybe I'm not good at it, but I just work alone now because I make more money and none of the headaches.
I had no problem discussing my pay, I was talking to one person, and they found out I was making 2$ more than them. They proceeded to take it out on me, like I controlled their pay.
That's 1 of many reasons not to discuss pay
That’s kind of funny. 😂
just shou them and tell them to get better
I am both happy for them and pissed at management. I was at a job and worked my tail off, never late, never missed, went above. New hires after me started out making $3 more on the hour than me. I went to ask for a raise to make at least what the new hires made and was told that raises weren't an option. Management was an ass to begin with and had no problems holding meetings and singling out one person to embarrass front of everyone. I had already been through that many times at this point. No matter how hard you worked, it was never enough. So since pay increases weren't an option, neither was my staying. I said good bye and the stress and anxiety I felt everyday, left. Best decision I could have made.
When new rates are higher than your pay that means it’s harder to fill the roles. Go find a new job and then bring it up your current one you’d like to stay(if true but you have x on the table) if it’s someone they want they will at least negotiate if they don’t then staying there isn’t going to get you anywhere so put your notice in. Just weigh seniority and benefits as well you may get more but is that worth enough to risk potentially having zero job should the economy continue going down the shitter
That and I’d never recommend staying in a role more than. 5-7 years. Most will pay more for a Swiss Army knife vs a tactical knife if you catch what I’m saying
the only obligation a corporation has is to its share holders... you chose wisely.
Story time : my wife had a job that she held for 3 long years. She was very good at her job. She was so good that they went through 4 managers (her superior) and each new one was trained by her. So she went to the head supervisor and said "hey Joe. I'm so good at what I do that I train the people above me. How about a promotion?". Well joe told her that he would love to promote her but she was too good at her position and whoever filled it would have big shoes to fill. Now let me just tell you that she had gotten 3 quarter raises. So once a year they would pay her 25 cents more. She was making 17 during covid and they bumped her up to 17.25 for her loyalty. Managers started at 22. But she had faith and against my encouragement she stayed. Well they started having staff shortages and they started doing job fairs. New employees below her position started at 18. So she went back to joe and said "hey Joe. I see the new hires getting paid more then me. It seems unfair and I would like a pay adjustment.". Joe looked at her and told her. "We're sorry but raises aren't in the budget this year. Rest assured that I'll keep you in mind.". Something finally clicked in her head. She finished her week and when she went to pick up her check she told joe that he no longer had to worry about her. She found a new job being a manager starting out at 25. Joe begged her to stay. Promised her the world. When she demanded all his promises in writing he told her good bye it was nice working with you. Moral of story. Know your worth. The time and loyalty that you dedicate to most companies is meaningless. Strive for more and never stop.
Happens at supermarket chains all the time.
This is so common. You're too valuable to promote. So you get abused. Managers don't seem to grasp that good hard working staff are a resource to be treasured and cultivated.
Good for her!
@@ryanmcewen415 Instead, they get "rode hard and hung up wet." Been there too many times, as has my wife.
Glad your wife found a better job for more pay!
I worked for a warehouse grocery company for 5 years and became an assistant manager after two. At Four years a second assistant was hired that 20+ years of experience and is an amazing manager. We got along well and I helped him navigate the different systems that we had. One afternoon after some serious difficulties with our systems I was able to get the problem resolved. After doing so he remarked that I should be paid more... I gave him a side glance because he was so serious about what he said. He went on to tell me that he started at a significantly higher salary than I had and that when he was hired he was told how much I made and to not to let me know how much he made. He then proceeded to champion my raise and got both of us put out to pasture. I never cared that he made more, but the disruption it caused was so laughable that we are good friends to this day and we both openly talk about our former employers actions.
I feel this is only an American(United States) problem. I've applied to seven different companies, knowing I knew more than the owners themselves and have shown it. Guess here in the United States they pay for cheap work, not value(hence the rise of China). I suppose I should have learned that in construction but hey, some of us have morals but most slave owners under the guise of business owners do not. People wonder why the United States of China is failing, and it's quite laughable. No one should want to work for those who have absolutely no ethic while providing what they entirely lack.
@@lukesutton4135 that is what unit cost estimates have done to construction.
Hardly anyone I know can actually estimate unknown project.
ANYTHING can happen in a court of “Law”…
And you typically won’t know why you got screwed.
Stay away from courtrooms…. And lawyers!
I'm about to become an employer, and I appreciate these brilliant insights into your philosophy on how to be a decent human being and a good employer.
Stay real, stay honest, care for your employees, but also care for yourself. I wish you the best of luck and good judgment in your future.
@@dposcuro thank you. I will try. But as Yoda says " there is no try, only do!"
If there were more bosses like you, life would be so much better.
If bosses were half the boss he apparently is like would still be amazing. Holy shit this guy seems to good to be true
I'm a journeyman welder, discussing ur pay is part of the hustle...if u don't discuss ur pay, the welder helper is prob making more than the welder!GREAT TOPIC DUDE🤘
Thanks for the info
Interesting industry you guys have. Such a massive range of pay dependent on ability I've noticed. Some guys that lay a beautiful bead every time I hear can earn over 130K a year... on the other hand if their welding looks half as bad as mine they'd be lucky to earn a taxi voucher back home lol
Y'know what? Sometimes you astonish me with the level of self-awareness you exhibit and can articulate without posturing. Good on you.
I have worked for companies on both sides. Ones that are OK with you discussing your pay and ones that are not. It’s always seemed to me that it is a better work environment when the employer allows you to discuss your pay without any consequences.
I like that you have taken the guess work out of your pay scale. So at the drop of A dime you can explain to any employee why they get payed what they do and if you would like more money be more valuable to the company. Pure transparency. Thank you for the videos keep up the good work James.
I once worked for a company that offered a 3% pay increase. When the managers found that I was seeking another opportunity my raise was increased 25%. Go figure.
I had that happen just once in my career as well. When I asked for a raise and they would not give me a minimum raise, I told them that my old job was looking to hire me back, for significantly more money. Which was actually true. I also pointed out that I had saved them tens of thousands of dollars because I figured out a particular system and got it working without the need to hire any extra consultants. Funny how they can always find the money when it matters. When they look at the situation and realize that losing you as an employee would be much more painful and costly than just giving you what you are worth.
When the housing market crashed back in 2008/2009, I had to switch from carpenter to retail. I got hired at a low wage but I needed the money. After almost three years no one in the company was getting raises(no raises over a 8 year span). I put in my two weeks and only then did they offer to give me a raise. I said it was too late, if I was a value to them they should have raised my pay well before. They are now out of business. Big surprise there!
Haha the company I work for fires people for that instead of increasing their offer they just fire you 😂
@@Talon18136 skill issue,
It’s just enough to keep you around until they can find a cheaper replacement. I’d still keep looking
My employer was paying another guy the same wage as me with 0 experience vs. my 20 years. Some employers just take advantage of people. Mainly because I don't like asking for raises but now I'm going to get paid because I'm not putting up with it anymore. Only reason I stayed because it was a good place to work and guaranteed 40 hours a week. They used me for cheap labor and I used them for experience.
Maybe your employer want you to quit because you are a crappy employee?
@@paulthiessen6444 talk about assumptions.
Your employer does not value you he's taking advantage of your good nature time you thought about your future.
Well at least it mutually beneficial in some way lol
Thats usually the case. Emloyers dont want employees discussing pay because they have favorites and pay is unfair around the place
You sir should be one of those people that travel around and teach companies how to be like you! Truth isnt always comfortable, and thats a huge problem these days. Kudos to you!
Honestly I work in IT in Europe and here we always discuss our pay with our peers. It's mandatory to know how much you're worth on the market. It's actually a lot more standardized here in tech because usually your pay is equal to the number of years of experience you have in what you're doing and of course it's related to the technology you're working with. Now there are slight differences form one company to another but if your salary is more then something like 10-20% lower then what other people get, then you know you are getting underpaid and you need to either get a raise by stating that you're getting payed less then what's on the market or change companies.
Also in Europe - I teach at a University. Basically we have a frame contract - everyone who works the same position for the same number of years is paid the same rate - the levels are set at the national level and negotiated every couple years. The only possible negotiation is where you start on that ladder, depending on your experience. I kind of like the transparency.
@@michellemillssmith2901 one problem with that. Just because two people have the same number of years in the same position doesn't mean they have the same value. I'm not big on working my butt off while someone else does the bare minimum and keeps the same pay.
@@diannamc367 I didn't say it was a perfect system. But it does avoid negotiations and issues that come with it. But a solid work-life balance is also strongly encouraged here, so no one is pressured to "work their butts off" while others are slacking. There is some inequity, but I see a lot less than I have in some other systems.
@@diannamc367 I think it might be a lot more nuanced than that that Michelle did not mention. I am American, worked in United States for the last 15 years, various jobs. Comparing Europe to the United States is like trying to describe color to a blind person. It does not work. The culture, laws, economies, are very very different.
Working in Europe is a vast improvement. Competency is often rewarded, not punished, and before you argue with me on that, I had a buddy who worked in several jobs in the last couple of years, most recently working in CNC machining, where he was removed from the workplace, or fired, because his direct superior was not as good. I don't hear stories like that from Europeans all that often. Here and there, sure, bad people occur everywhere, but the fact that my buddy has not been able to hold down a job because he was too good at it, is fucking bullshit.
Interestingly though, you did point out the exact reason communism does not work. It's great on paper, but putting it into practice has so much nuance and variables, that it just doesn't work, because as you said, "I'm not big on working my butt off while someone else does the bare minimum and keeps the same pay." I am not a fan either, and I think a culture of rewarding good work and morals instead of punishing people for it, would greatly change things in that regard.
TL;DR, too nuanced to be an accurate comparison of USA and Europe, but it is unintentionally the exact issue with a widespread political ideology in today's world.
@@SisuTheShattered I agree that it's BS how your friend was fired. Obviously his place of employment did not value skill over the idiot who was supposedly there to supervise him.
Fortunately, even though it's a big pain in the butt, he now has the opportunity to find a place that appreciates him. Sometimes we need that big bump in the road to push us out of our comfort zone.
Most managers and/or business owners don't take the time to even ask these questions, let alone offering solutions that benefit everyone involved. Good on you, James.
James, if more of the world was as candid and down to earth with their employees and their customers as you are, Walkouts and Strikes would cease to exist.
You had me ready to charge in here all "workers rights!!!" but this is an excellent way to look at the subject, and I really appreciate your perspective.
Thanks for the top-shelf content, bud, as well as for being an all-around good dude.
Thank you
I don't think strikes would stop. Even if there were more top notch employers, strikes often are aimed towards governments to change or add laws and even the best of employers can't directly change the law. I really appreciate this sort of based talk about running a business as it obviously helps setting examples and educating people. And I really enjoy those videos. But being like that is not all that matters (but it would be a huge step)
@@Mongolenfreak Ummm.. I think you maybe mistaking a strike for a protest. People don't strike against the government as they are not employed by the government. They can't withhold labor from the government because they are not giving any labor to the government. A strike is withholding labor from a business to force that business to negotiate with it's laborers.
If you don't like a law and want the government to do something you protest.
I don’t think strikes would stop, because unions don’t often think of *their members*, but rather *their leadership*. I’ve been in many unions, they are not all created equal, not all are worthwhile, and ALL had top leadership that was so disconnected with its rank and file that they were barely in the same world, let alone playing the same game.
@@Wowzers740 It might be usefully to have some government regulation on unions, laws forcing unions to work for employees on employers.
Like making sure union revenue streams are tied to employee pay rate and benefits. Also cutting off ways for employers to incentivize unions.
I wish I would have found an employer like you when I was younger and just starting in my career listening to you is a breath of fresh air God bless and good luck
I love the way successful people talk and think. Strong work sir.
i actually quit my job over finding out that the cart boy at my store got paid 5$ an hour more than me to smoke weed behind the store and spend all day in the break room while i busted my ass and did everything i was asked to do by management even working 24 hour shifts
Exactly
I did the same job back in high school at the big blue store, only I got the other cart guy fired because I told a cms that I was the only person picking up all the carts while another the other guy was in his pickup with his friends getting high. And ohhhhhhh boy let me tell you the CMS Stacey didn’t like that. She went out there with security asked him to come back to the office. Shocker he was fired……. He called me a snitch and I never heard from again! But everyone else on the cart-crew the same age as me said I did the right thing, because we all were tired of doing all the work while he didn’t do anything but sit in his truck and get high and this guy was some how making couple bucks more a hour because he’d been there for 5 years. Dude was 21 and yet 16 year olds where running laps around him. And he some how was making money not doing anything.
Did you ask for more money?
I'm still smoking back there....just got another raise too
When I was a teenager working at Kmart I would get mad when the managers would make us go out and help the cart pushers. The manager would say they didn't show up, but I knew they were hiding in the bathroom or stock room. Manager was just too lazy to look for them.
I met a guy making way more money than me in the same position. When I had some conversations with him it was immediately apparent that he knew way more than anyone else in the shop. Both about the trade and about the plant. Why would I expect top tier pay when I'm not as knowledgeable as that guy? Only words I can think is entitled idiots.
Because most men, not all think logically. One reason women don't normally work well together... Men can identify a pecking order without discussing it. Women all want to be chiefs.
Ah yes but where as the spot I currently am in. New hiers are getting paid more then me. When I brought it up I got told the company doesn't do cost of living increases only annual review increases and I got the most I could durrjny my last review. So a job hunting I will go.
@@ImpKnight97 Unfortunately, you are correct. With these increases in minimum wage and the push to simply get new people in the door, they raise the starting pay while leaving others behind. In my opinion, there should be an addition to the minimum wage requirements. If a corporation increases the minimum pay for a job, all current employees should be raised to that as well or it should be illegal. Turn over costs any company more than making current employees happy. I say good on you, make it known, then jump ship. Do what's best for you and your family, screw the company, plenty more out there. Good luck 🍀👍.
And if you want to make more money that conversation gave you knowledge on how to make yourself more valuable and reach for that goal.
Because you are doing the same job.
As you said, they were employed in the same position as you therefore you both meet the requirements for that position and as such should receive comparable compensation
You handled that extremely well. Your explanation to the young lady was on point. Her reaction of crying is entirely understandable, because she had just had her world rocked. My question is; what happened next? Did she go back to work, did she take some time off to process what she had been told? Did she quit? Did she seek out ways to improve herself so as to qualify for more pay?
I want to know too!
It amazes me how well thought out your arguments, side bars, and asides are. I am glad the algorithm put your face on my feed. I am even more glad that I watched that first video (a short). I can't get enough James. GREAT STUFF, KEEP IT UP!
I really wish there were more bosses like this. Honesty, respect and understanding. Sounds like the roadmap to what used to be called a company man (person).
James, I'm glad that you mention "value to the company" in the same breath as "earnings to the company". For most of my carrer I've been employed in positions that didn't directly generate revenue for my employer, but they were still critical to the functioning of the company. It is good to recognize both the people who actually do the work that brings money into the company as well as the people who do the work that allows the company to function.
The only time I discussed pay with a co-worker was when it was clear to us that our pay was evened out at one particular time. He got a significant raise and I got a much smaller raise. We had about the same amount of experience (he probably had a little more) and doing the same work (desktop IT support). He asked if I was upset, and I truly wasn't. I was happy for him that he got a good raise.
You are spot on. And handled that impromptu conversation very well. The lawyer part is so true.
I recently recieved a $7 bump because I asked the new employee how much she was getting paid. She had no experience and was very unreliable. Talked to my boss and we went to hr together and he helped me get what I deserved. But very true, it can be an extremely tricky subject at work.
Good for you! I wish more employers were like this
I really appreciate you laying out the issue in an intelligent way. You obviously support worker rights while explaining the potential issues it might create. Honestly wish more business owners had your kind heart and intelligence because its sorely lacking in a lot of business.
I like your way of thinking James. Keep doing what your doing. Your lessons are invaluable to most of us! Thank you.
I never get tired of hearing about your company's growth. This was fantastic...and handled greatly
I work for the state so everyone’s pay is listed on the website. When I saw a discrepancy as a manager I brought it up to my director and requested a salary adjustment. When I saw it for myself, I did the same thing and came with “receipts”. I would come in with my certifications, job experience and education and seek a fruitful conversation. They’ve always been great listeners and have been considerate of those concerns.
It isn't their money so why should they care, other than not blowing their budget?
Years ago, we had a bunch of new IT techs join the company and they were earning more than the other techs and their supervisors. Management said "well that's the market rate". They wouldn't adjust the existing staff .....so all is senior guys left and they were stuck with the juniors
That's always the weirdest thing to me...
Lemme just leave and apply for the same job, and get a raise. Or you could just give me the raise?
and there is a great example of why employees should know what other people in the job are getting payed (and why).
don't know why they thought the market rate only applied to the new guys, not the people who already know how to do the job.
Because sometimes the boss is adding to the calculation the effects of those senior employees with benefits i.e. health insurance, maternity leave, 401k, maybe even the fact that one guy always beats the boss during the golf outing. Corporate mindset is a whole different animal and it doesnt always make sense from an outsiders perspective.
@@ARockRaider The "and why" is generally the biggest part for me, but I find that it causes issues as well... I've experienced a few salty seniors who can't accept that the new guy may not know the system, but knows the new technologies. Yeah, you and the new guy both know how to make a webpage, but you're using tables in tables in tables like it's still HTML 3.0 and the new guy is making nested ASP master pages that autogenerate content from the database.
@@kalebglenn5279 the new guys didn't even know how to take care of workstation issues, let alone servers and firewalls etc
Always love listening to your vids. Thanks for being you.
Youbare spot on !! Love your bits of insight you give us. Keep yp the great work.
I’m glad you point out that experience pays. I never finished college. I went from laborer and rose to Plant Manager at one location. We got sold and I was offered a laborer job at a different location because they were closing my location to eliminate competition. I still got the manager pay for almost 3 years and ended up losing $3 an hour. I stayed there for 10 years and retired during Covid-19 layoff. I never told anyone what I was making! My new Boss found out and had a fit! My district manager told him to calm down because I had 30+ years experience and to never discuss it with anyone. If any other laborer asked I lied and said like $12 less than I was really paid.
Your new boss sounded like a real prick
If you have the skill, the expertise, and the necessary certifications, college shouldn't be the deciding factor. There are some certificates, like teaching, that you can't get without a college degree, sure. Others just require a test, like with Comptia. I have seen college grads who can't do the basic tasks that someone with only skill and experience can.
I find it unreasonable for two people to get paid different for doing the same job change my mind.
@@gradypoole5366
If they are doing the same job with roughly the same output that's a fair statement.
However is it fair if they do the same job and one has half the output?
@@thomasscott7829 no
James, as supervisor/ manager & Owner of a small business, I totally love this clip and conversation. This is always a tricky topic and difficult conversations to have about what a person is worth. It's extremely difficult to have these conversations without someone having hurt feels afterwards.
In my experience, most managers aren't anywhere near as methodical as James about valuating employees. In fact, a lot of the managers I've worked for have made emotional choices instead of logical choices and couldn't explain an employee's value to the company if their life depended on it. In the end, the most effective way for an employee to get paid what they want is to lie about their qualifications, because most managers won't even fact check the resume. All of this makes it very difficult for people like myself to get decent pay, because I'm not very pushy, I don't brown nose to get in the boss's good feelings, and I also won't lie about what I'm capable of in order to get more money. I wish I worked for a business that manages employee pay algorithmically like James' company does. If you don't have a method similar to his, let me tell you that not only will you decrease drama, boost morale, and increase satisfaction from your employees, but you will have the pick of the best employees in your line of work if you implement this kind of logical pay schedule, because the best employees are the ones who benefit most from this.
I am so happy to see more content on youtube from you. I absolutely enjoy all of your content!
What i like about this video is that you ultimately decided your worth and his willing to help you, thats awesome
I really wish more employers looked at things like you do man.
I myself work at a small company, the mention of our pay between coworkers is an extremely rare occurrence and if it does happen, I tend to ignore it. I know I’m the lowest paid at the company I work for, but, I also know that my coworkers are higher skilled than me due to degrees or experience they have. I therefore choose to ignore any mentions of differences in pay because I know it’s not personal, it’s purely business.
Great video James!! you always provide amazing Insite to many of life's issues in a proper, professional, and respectful way. Thanks for another great video!
This is my all time favorite video by James. I've watched it multiple times. Even though I'm retired, I find what he says very relevant.
I worked for a company for 5 years and was recently fired, I made more than my boss because I bust my ass daily and sacrificed a lot for the corporation, worked 6-7 days a week, went in early stayed late all of that, I was promoted to supervisor then manager and then stepped down because the amount of work for pay was not worth it to me. So the guy who took my job and was my direct supervisor found out I made more than him, long story short I was fired within 6 months. Fuck large corporations I started my own company and now I have one goal ruin that place, take all their customers and make the store manager look like a fucking idiot which I will do because I am hungry. He was a mentor to me, now he’s my target and I don’t miss.
Every time I worked for a manager who discouraged discussing pay I found out they didn't pay fairly. Usually I would be the one who got screwed because I suck at negotiating. I usually don't discuss my pay, but I get suspicious now when a manager discourages it.
NEGOTIATING SHOULD TAUGHT THROUGH OUT EDUCATIONAL SYSTEMS. CAPITALISM EQUALS PROFITS BY ANY MEANS.
And talking about your pay is protected and illegal to try to stop it
Holy crap! You got me in the first half. I'm not going to lie.
Food for thought. Thank you
I’m an electrician and we all think we are the bomb. When someone who is lazy knows how much you make they don’t tell anyone, they just point out all the flaws in your work to the various bosses and try to get you axed/laid off first. If they were a first rate employee their work would out shine everyone, and set the pace for the job. Good advice James. How do you know ALL this stuff? I haven’t met many people who are super fair and care about their employees and make money all at the same time!
Love it. I wish there was more bosses like you. Set up the workers for success, not failure.
We don't agree on everything, good sir, but this... This is just golden. You sound like a rational business owner, and most importantly, one who has some basic level of compassion. Bravo, sir.
I completely agree with you. We all need to start at the bottom and work our way up.
I love the fact that James knows it illegal, but also understands that companies do it anyway knowing that the recourse from the employee is often more trouble then it worth. The level of self awareness to understand that is rare in this day and age.
1. I have not discussed pay with coworkers, but my place of work has a given pay range for each position.
2. If someone is paid more than me I’m happy for them. It generally means that they either have more education or work experience that they put the effort into.
Good solid advice. Thanks.
Thank you good sir for treating your employees right!
Your company sound like a great place you work and climb the ranks, if you have the will and desire to do so. Higher efforts= higher pay, seems fair to me
Been watching your channel for almost a year and whilst doing so went from being an employee at car wash to beginning Hvac apprenticeship in a week! Your channel helped me see the opportunity of what going to trade-school can really make in my life and building foundation. Very grateful of your channel !
Having an open policy allows people to know where they stand and more importantly what it takes to step up. You have to look out for yourself, not one else will.
Great advice and mentality man
MAN, I wish more owners/managers were like you.. If I were younger I'd love to work for you!! At the very least, would love to find someone with your common sense and logic.. Your employees are incredibly lucky to have someone with your mindset for a boss.. You truly do seem to look out for the best of your employees.
Aloha, i have talked with coworkers about pay and have found some made more than me, both male and female, but i also took into consideration they have had more years at the same job as well as more education. So I, of course, was happy for them and picked their brain on how i could achieve the same level they were on.
This IS the way
I talk about it but I like how you identified the issue and worked to minimize the fall out. Well done.
this guy is a beast! he broke it down for everyone, as a boss and and employee! When he said everyone is gonna know how much you make he is right. It always creates issues when people talk about pay. I def clicked the subscribe button!
I never get mad about people making more money than me if they're worth it. When I was fresh out of college I started working for a small managed services provider, or an IT company for business that didn't have IT and needed that kind of service. One of the rules was to not talk about pay. We all made probably within 10K of each other, which was surreal to me because my job was easy and the guy who made 10k more than me, their job was a lot harder than mine. Then we had our lead engineer who was absolutely brilliant and he got paid more than double my salary, I'd say close to triple. At first I was Ok with this, he's earned it right? Some day I'll get there. Well, this guy was my boss and he was an absolute load. Super smart, but super lazy. We started at 8 and he wandered in the office about 10 AM, and then took a 2 hour lunch at 11 AM. Sometimes he even came back to the office. Usually he just played video games when he came back.. anyway, we had a few larger clients that had very specific systems that this guy set up and his job was to train us. He never really did, the amount of bullshit I had to figure out on my own while being on the line with a client who pays us thousands of dollars a month was mine numbing. For the sake of privacy, we're going to call this guy Marty. One day the owner of the company said it was his dream that we'd all be as smart as Marty so we could just rake in the dough. When it was brought up about being compensated in a similar way, there were crickets. Not long after that a lot of us that started with the company while it was young left. It was apparent that it didn't matter what we did, the money wasn't going to get better. Now I make more than double my old salary with a lot less work and bullshit.
Nice, Dont take corpo bullshit.
I love your channel and your approach to employees and relationships with them.
That said, being a gov’t employee is a different animal. Your pay is set. The only thing that affects it is seniority. And the only way to move up is if your boss gets promoted or retires or if your apply for a job someplace else in the government
Yup, government employees' pay grades are part of their publically available info. There are bands within the grades, but others know roughly what you make.
You are so smooth. You are also very well educated. You're a boss everyone needs
How to you get a government job? I keep hearing about these elusive government jobs but haven’t got a clue where to find them.
@@ButtmanAtHeart
I retired from a govt job after 22 years. Came from private sector where job hops and layoffs were every 3-5 years. The secret is not what you know primarily, but who you know on the inside who could pull strings for you with good character and morale based on how you treated others, including them. Good luck.
@@jbsimmons54 yeah okay but where are the job openings actually posted?
Oooh, free merch!? Throwing my hat into that ring.
As for discussing pay with coworkers, I used to work for state and local government where our pay rate was available to the public. It was always fun to look and see how much your boss was making. It was a motivating factor to do better and aim higher.
in a lot of government jobs the boss will only make slightly more than his employees, and have 10 times as many headaches.
@@alanm2842 and that was the lesson I learned when moving to the private sector
Your commentaries are always quite interesting especially if there's a story that goes with it.
Mr Butler, you are the epitome of logic and exemplary communication skills. 💥
I once learned the pay of everyone else in my company, including my bosses, by accident. It really pissed me off, but I kept quiet, didn’t want to cause any drama (this was 25 years ago). It just showed me what they thought of me, wasn’t there much longer. Looking back, was the best decision I could have made
I've spent most of my life working government jobs... our pay is literally public records. I know what all my coworkers make, they know what I make, and we all know exactly what's required to earn a certain wage. Heck, at my current job I knew the whole org's pay table before I even applied.
I think it's great. Doesn't cause drama because it was never hidden in the first place. And we might disagree with certain parts of it (like how much more you get for a particular degree, etc) but at least we know we're all getting held to the same standard.
This was an awesome anecdote to highlight how important perspective is, related to conversations about pay. I agree with you that employees should discuss pay with each other, when they feel comfortable to do so, and I agree with you that pay should be based on their value to the company. Well done, as usual, sir.
I originally came to your page for the humor. I stay for both the humor and the wisdom. At times these past 6-8mths, almost makes me wish I could move to NC & work for you, sir!
I've worked for several different organisations over the years. I once worked a for an employer like you, and it was one of the best experiences I've ever had. He was a Vietnam Veteran; a conscript, and the whole experience for him had helped him understand what was really important in life. That included his business and how he treated his customers and staff. Pretty similar to you and that's probably why I enjoy watching your channel. In that company, we didn't really discuss wages with each other, even though it was allowed. We all felt fairly remunerated for our efforts and that the boss had our best interests at heart. Likewise, we looked after him and saved him a lot of overtime and travel time.
I worked in a couple of companies that tried to prevent staff discussing wages. One, because they were ripping us off. The other because the boss and her husband played favourites with the staff and were not declaring taxes for the additional (off-the-books) pay of the favourites. Both places were pretty toxic environments. The funny thing about the first place was most of us were students and knew our rights. So more often than not, when some one resigned, they would report the company for wage theft and successfully sue the company for the substantial backpay. This company eventually changed its employment policy to exclude students, because they were too difficult to cheat. The other place had a pretty high turnover of staff (even the favourites eventually left on bad terms) and got a pretty bad reputation in their industry.
At another place I worked for, everyone could work out your rate of pay by the job you perfumed in the organisation. It was very transparent on this, but you could get additional pay for useful additional profession skills you brought to the job (including other languages as you mentioned). The only times I saw people discuss their wages with colleagues was when they wanted to be boastful dicks.
Love your work. Keep 'em coming. 👍👍
My ex worked at a place that did semi-annual bonuses. When one of the more obnoxious guys would ask him "what he got" he would tell the guy double what ever the bonus actually was. Got him upset every time.
The funniest part was, the bonuses were profit shares and based on hours worked. If you paid any attention to how many hours you worked vs another employee you can guess pretty close to what their bonus was vs yours.
That guy wasn't really too bright.
I watched your video while ago about sending your company up so that your books are basically available to all your employees. It's a great video and I have been striving to organize my company in the same way so that we can have full transparency and promote a better workplace. Thanks for being some guy on the internet. You do a tremendous amount of good with these videos.
This makes me feel good. I love that a good boss is inspiring others to be better.
My boss is like you. He pays based on individual value. He also encourages us to talk about what we make and to help our team members achieve their own maximum value. It may not be best for every situation but here it seems to make a difference and I work along side with more people who get paid higher than at any similar place of employment would offer.
I worked for Walmart for 15 years and have had that very same conversation about pay and the experience/qualifications of one person to another. It's not really an easy conversation to have. But when you lay out the facts and the why's it normally clicks with the employee. I agree 100% with your description and the way you deal with it now. 😊
I wish more employers had that mindset. I respect your grind brother. Keep up the good work!
As a contractor for department of defense related company after my service in the Marine Corp I quickly learned that the less others know about you the better off every one is. Due to experience and education my pay was noticable higher than my peers. There was an incident where the main character in the drama created involved himself in my divorce. He eventually got terminated, and a revocation of his security clearance. Which in turn made it impossible for him to get employment in any other department of defense related company.
I love your no nonsense, and very direct path to clear up the drama in your operation (company).
Semper fi brother. Stay safe out there.
Semper Fi brother.
Man i love this guy
❤ this is super awesome and yanno how nice it was for you to even give her a chance? Excellent job, friend!
Thank you so much!
@@JamesButlerWellAndSepticLife yes sir, 100%! Being from SWVA and East TN, I find the values you hold to be true and deep. Thanks for all you do!
This video should be required viewing for all HR staff and high school seniors.
@@mdude7778 I agree. Any of them James does are great.
Great video ❤ i love when inexperienced demands experienced pay
Great leadership video.. how to handel employees is a lost art.. Im impressed with your attitude. Thank you
Love it!!! That’s exactly why I don’t discuss my pay… I don’t want folks to have drama in the company… I have no energy for that
The world needs more bosses like you.
I've worked as a carpenter for 30 plus years and personally I never talk about my pay it's always drama. The best policy is to be friends heck cut up but do your work professionally and efficiently at the end of the day we all have our own problems to deal with. Your spot on and I just wish more people understood that.
Gonna be sharing this with our contract administrator, it’s that good.
This man is a boss. I haven't heard anything from this guy that doesn't make sense. Great content sir.
Ive been in the same field for 15 years and never cared what others made. When ive happened to find anothers pay rate over the years ive certainly taken it into account, thought of the differences between myself and that person to see what they are doing differently and did what i could to raise my value. That was effective my first couple years working in my field (network engineer). Since then ive gotten numerous certifications (got 15 currently), outworked everyone else around me and made it a point to raise my value amd take more responsibility.. This has given me the ability to be one of the highest paid at my last few companies.
I guess all that to say another persons pay has never been a consideration for me...unless im looking to get more pay and looking for what i can do to raise my value to achieve that higher pay.
I was a contract software developer for years and YES, I did talk to other contractors about pay--as contractors we view it as market research. Also as a contractor, if someone was paid more than me, I wouldn't get upset--they either were worth more or better at negotiating than I was. I really enjoy listening to your business discussions. If more business owners were like you, this would be a much better country. You are honest and fair with your customers and your employees and it has a positive effect on the world.
Well said sir, well said.
In Sweden you can just ask the government for anyone's income and they have to give it to you. It's a public record.
This is very interesting. I once heard a story of wages being posted in the town square and people were paying taxes on higher incomes than they had so their neighbors didn't know how little they made.
I believe that you can look up the pay for any government employee.
You have always provided amazing business leadership and inspiration for others who could use your advice in their fields and even hobbies. I wish most were on your level.
Instagram algorithm has shown your shorts to me and I enjoy every one of them. CZcams showed me your latest video in my feed, and I’m now hooked. These are great videos for work because I don’t need to watch anything, I can just listen. Very interesting and I’ve learned some good life lessons from these videos. Keep it up!
My dad managed a bunch of engineers for an electric utility. As the company grew (more power plants built) they would go recruiting at nearby engineering colleges. Often when they hired a new engineer with zero experience, the company had to make higher offers to the new graduates than what the current engineers were making, to compete with other companies. Dad would make sure all the current engineers got a raise even if it meant they made more than him. The company made the wise decision to go along with my dad on increasing the other engineers' salary. Eventually they would also budget to catch up on my dad's salary too. They said they could not abide him making less than his employees. The company had such a good reputation for treating their engineers right, that some cross hires with experience from other companies would take a pay cut to come work for them.
Hey, as a high school grad as of this year, your videos are helpful to me as I am preparing to starting a living. It is scarry starting out but listening to someones experiences lets me think and determine how I would make decisions in a similar situaction. It helps that you have fun stories and are a lively narrator but not too loud and obnoxious. So Thank You.
Always value work experience over education. Schools will try to tell you that you will have a great job just because you went to school, but it doesn't work that way. No one wants to hire or train employees with no experience.
I'm not your usual demographic, older female. However , I love your sense of humor and common sense. I shared your flamethrower video with my brother and he had raffle tickets for the same flamethrower! We both love that thing. Lol - in the workplace I don't discuss pay, I'd rather rescue dogs. Never liked drama. Have a great weekend and happy Father's day to all the dada!