Competition Guns Versus Combat Guns: What You Gain and What You Lose
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2022
- For those who have been shooting for a while, the pros and cons of each platform should be pretty obvious.
Newer shooters tend to be drawn to competition-style/race guns because they are generally easier to shoot and they can look really cool.
However, if you train primarily for self-defense, get good at using a normal, carry/duty-type gun first.
Often, we see beginner/intermediate shooters immediately upgrade to a fancy, competition gun. Once they get one, they hardly ever use their carry or combat gun.
Having a race gun won’t automatically make you better. If you’re a solid shooter with a carry gun, you will see a notable difference when using a competition-style gun.
But, you have to consider the pros and cons when using a race gun versus a combat gun.
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Very interesting video. My 2 cents worth is that race guns are just like race cars. They are fast and lots of fun on the track, (gun range) but need tuning and constant maintenance. A race car is not made to go shopping. Glocks are your reliable daily drivers.
This is honestly a very good comparison
To be completely honest i use to think the same
Ive ran a race gun for 5 years never one issue
I have however seen more glocks have issues more than any other pistol on the range
To be fair most competitors are guilty of playing with equipment but not all guys
My opinion would be split it down the middle
Instead if a stock firearm that has awful sights and trigger maybe a few mods and keep most stock
Magwell tad lighter trigger and some good sights
What is the maintenance that's constantly needed on a competition pistol, The X5 would need more work than the glock 19?
Race guns are just too damn heavy to carry. I accomplished most of my USPSA accolades shooting Limited. Then once I reached masterclass I switched to production and never looked back. Now my super expensive limited guns and single stack just sit there collecting dust. My production gun is the one I'll be using and carrying so why not practice with it all the time. But using my race guns really got me a lot faster and more accurate so that now I shoot my production guns much better.
@Nobody Special what guns you recommend
“If you know what you’re doing…” Exactly why I was not surprised by the slight differences in time between either pistols. Great work as always!
Myles, have you ever brought a less skilled shooter for some of these tests? It might be cool to see the difference in how a more average or new shooter would handle a standard Glock vs a race gun.
That’s something we can set up.
@@TacticalHyve Awesome! If you ever need someone to help, I've taken a few of the classes and AZ and would love to support the team.
@@TacticalHyve I'll do it! But I'm using my M&P
@@TacticalHyve I'd like to volunteer if you're ever in Texas. I'm extremely less skilled.
That would be me, I can hit 4inch plate at 40m easily with a Cz ts and miss badly with a glock (stock).
Love the content, always great topics for everyone regardless of experience.
I have a friend that is much more serious about USPSA then I am. He is really into the competition aspect and I shoot it because in my area it is the only chance I have to draw from the holster, shoot while on the move, shoot from uncomfortable/non-standard positions, shoot moving targets.
My friend uses a 2011 I shoot my gen 4 Glock 19 that I carry ccw every day (work issued ccw is a gen 5 Glock 19) to protect my family. My reasoning is that i want to be the best I can be with my personal and duty firearm, not better or worse then anyone else.
My buddy very rarely cleans his 2011, so I tend to keep up with him very well. I try to keep my gun as spotless and well maintained as I can.
You have really put in the work to become both a top-notch shooter and instructor! I'm happy to see the channel finally getting the subscription numbers it deserves. I'm quite certain that CZcams has tried to suppress it (especially since you're in California), but people are finding it anyway!
Thanks! Appreciate the comment and support!
Fantastic comparison. Thank you for showing us virtually all of your process instead of editing down to the bare minimum.
Great stuff as always!
Great comparison. Thank you for sharing.
I so agree! Great video brother and you are producing some really good content. Keep up the great work. Carry on.
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for sharing, I always enjoy and learning from watching your videos.
Great vids as always sir appreciate the comparison!
Awesome video thank you.
Right on
More than shaving time off, consistent hits at any distance are what stops a target and hence the key element to me over duty vs competition gun. Excellent video, many thanks for sharing.
Excellent demonstration and explanation 💪🏼🇺🇸
One of my favorite Guntubers!!!! I have over 12k rds in 9mm in the last 7yrs and I was regressing. I came here and watched the basics and a few videos further about the subject. G19 and G43. I'm almost back on track. I have went back to blackout rear high vis orange Trijicon irons. Took the Holosun off for now.
Please join a USPSA shooting club. You will become the absolute best shooter you possibly can be.
Nice job. It's nice to see someone who can shoot well WITHOUT a red dot....
My first time seeing one of your videos and it's a great video!
Great video. When I tell people about the 1911 I point out the same thing. As much as I love the trigger and ergonomics, it requires more maintenance and upkeep for it to be that way. A stricter fire like the 19, M&P 9, etc are more durable for everyday carry and use. Range, forget to clean it then need to the save you, it’ll still work. Grip, sights, and maybe trigger change to your liking is about all you need and should do if anything.
EXCELLENT content in this video,....I'm no one to judge but will say anyway, couldn't agree more with every single thing you said through out video. Thanks fer sharing an AWESOME & REALISTIC test/experiment.
Very good shooting with both pistols. Thanks for the comparison. God bless.
Great content.New to shooting. I learn a lot from your videos . Keep them coming
Great info. Thanks much!
Our pleasure!
I'd like to see this test with cajunized Cz P01 or SP01. Both have a solid competition and duty pedigree.
I carry a bone stock p-01 and shoot production with a Customized SP-01 ( custom disconnector, Upgraded internals etc .) I’ve got about 9k rounds through the P-01 and the trigger is as smooth as it’s going to get. The CZC combat sights are The biggest difference . Harder to shoot at 25 yards and different POA. You have to hold higher as they seem to be zeroed for 15 yards or less .The fiber optic adjustable sights on the SP-01 are smaller and hit exactly what you aim at. I zeroed them at 25 yards.
I have a SP 01 Shadow with Cajun Gunworks lockworks with 30,000 downrange almost zero issues (dirty mag/round) still runs great
Sp01 or p01 for metal and p09 or p07 for polymer are the best and most underrated handguns for DA/SA. So damn reliable, accurate and soft shooting. P07 is my favorite DA/SA handgun of all time
I've been pretty critical of some of your past videos, but this one was great. Solid concept, excellent execution, and perfect summary of lessons learned at the end. Well done Tactical Hive!
Great video. I use a Staccato 2011 for my EDC and I love it. Wonderful pistol.
Myles, always enjoy your videos and I definitely appreciate a nice race gun, but most shooters, far less experienced than you, will not be able to squeeze those fractional seconds out of one for months or years as you point out. So, I would definitely encourage novice thru intermediate shooters to just tune up a stock gun and shoot a lot of dry and live fire until those fractional seconds really do make a difference in winning or losing.
The weight of the gun also play a major factor in the raciness. Reduces muzzle rise and fall which helps you get that second shot off faster.
I think it’s psychological as well with the race gun. He could probably shoot the Glock just as well if his life depended on it. I’ve owned a Stacato P and they are nice guns that are smoother. I would say the race gun is probably 5-10% more efficient than a stock Glock. So when purchasing I would say is 2,000 plus dollars worth the 5-10%.
Great video as usual
👊
Well done!
I’ve been wanting to see a comparison like that.
Wow, one of my carry guns is also a Glock 19 and after watching you and hearing your lack of maintenance on it , they will take care of us even though we don’t take care of them.
Very cool comparison
Awesome drills very interesting test how combat and race guns go/or slow (combat)
Reliability is a huge factor when you need to go to work
Interesting train of thought.
Your channel is awesome. Thx
Thanks!
Another great episode miles. I guess my question is if you hear someone kicking in your back door and those two guns were both right there, which one do you grab?
Awesome summary! I'll stick with buying bullets too train more rather than upgrade
2nd time you run the drill will be faster. Isnt it confirmation bias for race gun to being faster by running it 2nd every time? Maybe alternate drills of which gun to go first.
Pretty cool video!!!
Generally I'm doing quite equally with CZ Shadow 2 and Glock 17 G5. However there's one occasion where the weight of Shadow 2 has a definite advantange: it's so much easier to use against moving targets when follow up shots are required. The weight is also it's drawback as a duty weapon - it's heavier than most. Another difference between the two is the sights where Shadow 2 sights are better at distance than the big front block of the G17. However at closer distances I prefer the sights of G17 due to the white paint in both ends whereas Shadow 2 only has a fiber dot up front. Cleaning and disassembly is much easier on G17, although this really has nothing do with the intented purpose as CZ75B is structucally very similar to Shadow 2 in this aspect.
Bro, if you know you're going to war tomorrow, are you bringing the 17 or the shadow?
Also, are you going to clean your guns tonight? This video is complete nonsense. he's a bro shooter looking for a reason to turn on the camera.
I can't stand when people create solutions that are looking for a problem.
Why can't you just run a G17 with a trigger upgrade? Do you need more weight without buying too big of a gun? Get the new M&P metal.
Why would your only choice be to run a Staccato or a G19? Even Harley Quinn, a fictional character, runs a chiappa rhino on her shoulder.
Do you know how soft shooting a rhino is? its more accurate, more powerful, more reliable, just less rounds.
G19s are for first-time gun owners convinced by moronic influencers or salespeople. Just because law enforcement or the military have used it, so should you.
By that logic, you should also eat a lot of doughnuts and drive a chevy caprice. EVERYTHING IS BETTER than a G19 these days, even a PSA dagger.
Appreciate seeing a race gun compared to a standard duty weapon. What I’d like to see next is a J Frame and/or LCP put through the same course.
Hi Myles, please tell us some details about YOUR racegun. Which brand, which model and some details. It looks pretty nice!
6:53 man this corse of fire has me on edge. Good run.
Who make your race gun? First time here. Good info. Thanks
Good video. Just joined USPSA and am looking for a combat gun to use. I have a S&W Plus 9mm but it's only 3.1". In getting a new gun how much difference does sight radius make? I've been looking at 4" because that would be easier to conceal but want to know how much more beneficial a 5" would be. Also I have local choices of Sig P320C, Glock 19 Gen 4 (with comp barrel & slide) or a stock Glock 17 that I could upgrade. Thoughts?
I have several EDC, compact, & even staged in home handguns. I’ve been looking for a really good tactical, combat, wear in a drop-down holster when the zombies come & invade handgun. I liked that you did this contrast between the two types, cause when searching for what I’m looking for, you come in contact with a lot that get in that in between area of a duty or combat gun & a race competition gun. With me looking for what I’m looking for for, I took away from your video, that I might want to stay away from some types of triggers & slides & whatnot, while possibly taking advantage of such things as optics & flared mag well. Is this a fair assumption, & are there other points that might help me narrow my search?
That’s a nice race gun you have. Can you give us details of the 2011 you used?
Awesome video . I would love to see Striker Fired Race Pistol Like P320 MAX , X5 LEGION or Spectre Comp Vs 2011.
To me that would be interesting to see how well Race Ready Striker Fired can hold up to Race Ready 2011 or CZ ..
especially in carry optics since its so popular for carry and competition.
Team glock vs...anyone ?
I would like the comparison with as much advantage with the race gun as possible. Thinking tuned ammo and from holster.
Can you test shooting one handed once with the elbow positioned underneath so the bend faces up vs. slightly turning the handgun inwards. Idk how much time that would take to see small differences.
Each service there purpose. You can't ride the reset on a stock G19 with a total pull length of close to a LOP about 5/8" of an inch. My quasi race gun, I don't compete so not really into true race guns where you can rack the slide with your index finger and a slight finger push. My comp trigger just measured both, and both are G19's. My overall LOP with my comp trigger is 3/16". Huge difference. My bone stock USA made G19 gen 3 just less than 3 days old ,other than Trijicon irons is bone stock and more like 5# pull one of the most impressive stock Glock trigger I've ever felt. My comp trigger is in the 2# range. It can shoot brass or steel standard 115gr fmj just like you did. Again awesome practical videos. Set some suppressed SBR'S going! Similar tests. Gucci vs MnP Sport 10.5
Race gun or not 1911/2011 have the best trigger known fact 👌 can never go wrong with a good ol hammer fired pistol 😉. Also those were some great shots 👍
Interesting, a little over a 10% improvement.
Great video and info!
This is the common trend of what high-level mods get you.
it’s always a case of diminishing returns. but when hundredths count and something gives you tenths of improvement, that’s a landslide victory.
the old adage stands- you can’t really buy your way to the podium if you aren’t already in the running. But when every competitor is at the top of their game, it definitely is those micro improvements that become worth every penny they cost.
You start to see a trend with competition translating to duty guns. It won’t be long where competition features will be on carry guns. Either it’s already there from the factory, or you slowly upgrade the duty gun while still maintaining reliability. That is the true best of both worlds. Good triggers and good sights help tremendously and is all what you’d want with reliability being a given. Slide to frame fitment, commonly the reason why cleaning is necessary for race guns but not so much for duty guns. Regardless, inherent accuracy is dependent on barrel lockup and not slide to frame fitment. I’d want to see an upgraded duty gun go against a race gun. That’d be interesting to see just as how carry optics is the new kid on the block.
Yes, definitely. Staccato is an example.
True. This has been the trend for decades. Competition informs what technique and equipment is ideal, which evolves development elsewhere.
7:47 that will happen when you have to perform in front of peers and a Audience. I feel that.
can you do a video on taurus brand th series specially th9c where the mag sleeve is commonly used?? been looking for an accurate review like this on th series..
Don't you think not shooting the 19 for a while might have hurt that time? Those distances to me were not as good as it could be, I think the race gun would dominate a lot more on 15 yard to 25 yard targets. Nice test there partner. I love the brain fart thingy.....I am 69 and started USPSA 3 years ago.....I shoot carry optics which is pretty close to stock. Love your channel Miles, and seeing guys like JJ on there. I met him at his home range a few weeks ago (which is now mine), nice fellow! Bill
He shoots his GLOCK 19, but not that particular one with the night sights.
My primary carry and my competition gun are the same; Beretta 92X RDO GR Centurion with an SRO on a super low mount. Spring kit (appropriate weight for a “duty” gun) and polished the mating surfaces but otherwise stock. No issues with weight or concealability in a quality holster for most environments. I carried a G19 for nearly 20 years before switching to the Beretta. Main reason for the change is the weird response I get from friends when they find out I carry this fat Italian princess so discreetly even in just a tee shirt and jeans.
Cool, competition guns looks more customized and looks cooler, I hope someday the military can you the most customized competition gun for combat.
God bless.
I have those same exact sights
Thank you for the awesome video I just have the plane Jane all black glock 43x I think it's awesome still tho
Anyone else notice the amount of effort is put into his runs with the race build
I would say the biggest difference is the trigger. I wonder what would happen if you upgrade your glock stock trigger to say, a Timney trigger. Race gun, vs cheap polymer gun with a competition trigger. Would there be a super difference in time??
Interesting test. Agree Glock is good for duty use by non-enthusiast. So, 10-15% faster with the race gun. That's a lot of time in some situations. Frankly, not convinced that a race gun is necessarily less reliable. Race gun might require a bit more cleaning and oiling to maintain reliability but if properly maintained there are race guns that have reliably run at least as many rounds as a Glock 19.
Great shooting. It's not the gun, it's the guy behind the gun.
There are "race guns," like the Canik SFx, the SFx Pro, the SFx Rival, and SFT Pro, that do not require the high maintenance like other handguns from "big names," like CZ, Sig Sauer, and others.
Have you tried the test in reverse order? Maybe you are just faster because of all the second runs with the 2011?
on the first string with the Glock, you hit low on the last plate and split the bullet thus a lite hit and the plate did not fall just wiggled
How about a super whiz band race Glock vs a modern carry 1911?
In duty or combat fast is not always the most important as reliability
For the most part I agree, but in some cases a combat handgun can be just as fast. I have competed in GSSF with a Glock 26. The only mods were OEM 3.5lb connector and a .25 cent trigger job. The sights are Heinie straight eights. Plate rack time 1.97. I’m sure the main deciding factor was the training.
Yes, that’s pretty much the pint if the video. The differences are negligible for someone with good fundamentals.
However, take the same amount of training you invested in your Glock and train just as much with a race gun. Your times and accuracy, particularly on further targets will be better.
Competition shooters use race guns in divisions that allow them instead of carry guns because they have the edge in performance.
i dunno, how your shooting, i would totally use that race gun for defensive scenarios lol, it’s the shot that counts with the speed and follow up
Does anyone know if there are compensators for Springfield XDM with port hold in (Top Only), such as on the SAS Viper II ?
When talking about metal production race guns, CZ, Beretta, Sig race guns aren't that different than their duty models. CZ P-O1 is NATO approved, Sig P226 and Beretta M9 had been adopted in some form by the military. Their race guns just have better machining tolerances, better quality control and are less concerned with weight savings. They aren't inherently less reliable, aside from the fact that tighter tolerances may require more frequent cleaning. 1911 is its own thing because they made by several manufacturers, and quality varies wildly across the board.
Polymer stroker guns are lighter and less expensive to achieve the same reliability as a metal guns and that alone is the primary reason for being widely adopted by military and law enforcement. Aside from Glock19, Sig 320, the reliability of most polymer striker duty/carry style guns are untested.
The one distinct advantage metal guns have over polymer is that the frame doesn't droop/warp over the course of thousands of rounds competition shooters tend to put through them.
Are you shooting the same ammo? Some guys tailor target loads for race guns and then try to compare that to defense ammo in an everyday carry gun.
As a learner my question is:
Isn't this outcome all predicated on amount of training and current familiarity of the platforms being used.
Have not used the glock for many years as he said and the race gun is used currently and constantly so he should be far more effective with the current race gun.
Not a fair comparison possibly.
Really good and interesting video, and predictable results, especially with both guns in the hands of a guy who is far more expert than 99% of the rest of us. As for me, I can drive my SUV very safely and competently, but if you put me in an Indy car, I would just crash it and hurt myself.😆
What kind of sights are thoes on the Glock 19?
I hate it when I forget the course of Fire. Especially when there's God damn hidden targets behind some stupid tires.
This made me not want to spend money on a race gun. Thanks for the video.
Great video... I prefer accuracy
Didn't count how many times you mentioned the glock, yet you just said my race gun. What brand is the race gun? What is an alpha & a charlie?
You’re a great shot
I did a little competition with a 19x just the other day.
Won my division, but considering it only had 7 other people, I guess I don't get to brag much, lol.
Why Myles isn't saying what is his race gun? Staccato, SVI?
I don't know... i think the one you practice with the most is the one you should depend on.
My edc and home defense is a " race gun" a Canik tp9sfx, why not have the advantages of a race gun and the reliability of the tp9sfx which is consistently cleaned and oiled for peak performance.
People need to understand why a duty gun is built the way it is, if they do not understand, they shouldn't be carrying in the first place. Shooting steel at a competition is not the same thing as somebody that is responsible for every round that departs the barrel, this includes CCW.
What brand is his race gun?
bro you make me feel like such an amateur lol
I´m pretty sure, 30 minutes of training or warmup with the glock gives you almost equal times. Raceguns are easier to shoot and you can push them harder to speed - without the wheels falling of, but on these drills, addiction comes into play a lot.
It’s like comparing a 911 to a Wrangler. One needs a lot more maintenance, and the other is just a bull through any conditions. Pick the right tool for the job at hand. If you’re going to the track, take the Porsche. If you’re gonna drive in all kinds of conditions every day, drive the Jeep.
take care of your guns and they will take care of you. thats the way i see it
What gen glock is that?
I’d kind of like to see you bring in someone (LE maybe?) who is very proficient and primarily (or even exclusively) uses a G19 to run the same drill, just to see how much it helps someone who regularly uses the G19 and not the 2011 race gun. I wonder if your high level recency of experience on the race gun biases the test somewhat, since that’s what you’re most familiar with, whereas someone who’s been all (or mostly) G19 lately might not have as noticeable a difference or possibly even better (big maybe) with the G19 since that’s what they know best right now. I think training & proficiency / recency of experience on a specific weapons system probably have the biggest impact of all. (It’s certainly that way with flying.)
That would be a good, different angle to take. FYI, Myles hardly shoots the specific race gun in the video.
@@TacticalHyve thanks for the info! That actually changes it then. I thought it was his regular race gun that he’s been doing all the competition stuff with. Good to know that it’s less biased than I originally thought! I know I personally tend to shoot best with the weapon that I practice with the most (and most frequently / recently). Keep up the great content!!!
When you compete idpa with a duty Glock (me) all the guys that compete in the same event with race gun ..they tell you that modified trigger vs duty gun trigger .. it doesn't matter .. !! ahAh ah
👍👍 As always!
#TeamTritium
👊
I'd be interested to a comparison between a stock Glock and a supped up Gucci Glock. More apples to apples.