Epidemius & The Dreaded TOAD DRAGON | Nurgle vs Dwarfs - Total War Warhammer 3
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- čas přidán 1. 05. 2024
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I dont know who this "Turin" guy is... but every time i fall asleep watching youtube and hes just there. Im groggily met with words I dont understand like "Nurgle" and "Kholek" watching armies of miniature golins and demons or whatever battling it out like they're sleep paralysis demons fighting over who gets to haunt me that night. Ive probably been watching these vids in my REM for hundreds of hours now and I still dont know anything about this channel. Nonetheless Im glad Turin is there, protecting me. Thank you Turin!
WTH hahaha nice
LOL
Glad I’m not the only one this happens too.
Funnily enough, Kholek was the last all-star we got
Lmao
Turin: a dragon slayer is attacking epidemus.
Epidemus: not any more *slap the slayer accros the face*
"Slayers of Karak Dive Bar" lol, nice
turin: theres a dragonslayer attacking him
epidemius: not on my watch 💀
1400 value on that one unit of plaguebearers. That buff from Epidemius was cookin
3:50 Knowing Epidemius, that motivational speech will be mostly made up of demands to shut up and let him concentrate, or threatening anyone who disturbs him to be turned into fertiliser for Nurgle's Garden.
Remember! When you die make sure to shut up. If I misscount this because of your screams you are coming back as a nurgling!
"arrrrgh, those stunties hit me with a bolt-"
"Could you please be silent, for 5 MINUTES?"
If yall did not know yet, its really sad but Epidemius' Tally of Pestilence does not work on himself. You could see it in this battle when Turin clicked on Epidemius, he was not affected by his own buff while he should, because hes daemonic. I already reported it to CA but not enough upvotes for them to prioritise it.
Everytime I see the toad dragon walk, I always think of the WWE commentator "Look at Randy Slithering across the ground"
WATCH OUT WATCH OUT WATCH OUT
RKO! RKO OUTTA NOWHERE!!!!!!
That felt like such a meme army but it was terrifyingly dominant.
its one of those units that might not make a lot of value on the board but actually was very valuable in game. eating all of that dwarven fire for more important pieces and still surviving till the end is a lot of value that cant be calculated, not to mention the value it did get might have been on fights that were important to win allowing other units to get more value. if you cant tell i am all for off meta builds, there is so much that gets written off as bad but can still be used effectively
The toad Dragon basically folded every engagement it ran into with the terror route. It may not have gotten many kills, but it plus the Pestigors is what allowed Turin to actually drive the dwarves back.
"Bikers of Karak Dive-Bar" followed up by calling Nurglings "Turd Burglers" ... Turin, you're an Olympic gold medalist of Total War content creation.
You've been one of the best since Total Warhammer 1, and you definitely 'Still got it' all these years later.
That's a grudge for no dragon riding dwarfs
There are no dragon riding dwarfs. The closest they’ve ever gotten is griffins
@@pgorman3874 is sarcasm bro, chill
He's called a dragon slayer. Slayer! Let's not forget the S.
I think the toad dragon did better than most people give it credit for. Soaking up all that fire, tanking it with its 25% or something missile res, terror routing and just being a distraction so the plaguebearers could do their job worked quite well :D
No one expects the Submarine Chosen Technology
Chaos knights and chosen doing well in one of these battles really puts a smile on my face. Gotta love heavy metal!
Not sure if any creator hascmentioned this yet but slayers got a buff. The slayer attribute prevents damage reduction debuffs, effectively making them immune to poison in particular. I belive this will be relevant in both nurgle and lizardmen matchups.
As much as i love the toad dragons, i do think great unclean ones would be maybe better in this build with Epedimeus, cause he can also give the 20% physical resistance to the unclean ones too, since they are demonic!
But they are also SO much slower so they would get shot much more and they don't have a breath attack that helped the toad dragon to do a lot of damage.
But toad....
@@turinRTS Honestly very valid, i take the unclean one back... TOAD!!!
All you say is true, but the model work and animations on the toad dragon are juat too darn good not to use. The thing is amazingly disgusting and repulsive. The art team earned their pay.
That build worked waaaay better than I ever expected it could. Incredible! ❤
epic battle with turins crisp commentary. god bless.
Makes me so happy to see pestigotlrs carrying. Though given how good nurgle forsaken are it's not altogether surprising. The mark of nurgle just synergizes so well with quick but somewhat fragile flanking infantry.
If only they looked more nurgly.
@@R3GARnator i think the look plenty nurgly. They wear those tattered death hoods so common amonst nurgle followers and have such twisted gnarly horns, some of them even having only 1 horn which is again a nurgle thing. It's subtler but their model is absolutely riddled with small details that scream nurgle.
@@sassyviking6003 I agree, visually CA did super well with them. Statistically however I dislike how low their stats are. I get they wanted to give Nurgle a mid tier mobile infantry unit, but their stats are worse than regular Gors, and these are supposed to be the best of the Beastmen with blessings from the plague father, not Ungors with great weapons.
@@Nickelback8469 that's just not true. Their stats are comparable to gors, not worse. And they absolutel are not the best of the best. I know a lot of people expected that but CA made if very clear when tzangors were released that all marked beastmen were marked gors not marked bestigors.they are going to be mid tier for all 4 chaos gods. That is a design choice it is fair to dosagree with, but the stats are appropriate given that deaign choice.
To back it up with numbers their MD the same as gors dual weapons. Their MA is between gors dual weapons and gors shields, their WS s between gors dual weapon and gors shield but is the only one with majority AP, they have a slightly quicker attack interval and the highest charge bonus of the 3. So pretty much exactly in line with gors, not ungors.
@@sassyviking6003 It is true; I can't find the stats for Pestigors online and am unable to boot up the game to check atm but Gors have MA in the mid 30's and comparable mid-high 20's MD to Pestigors, while Pestigors have MD and MA both in the 20's despite Pestigors supposedly benefiting from the mark of Nurgle which should increase their MD.
I can accept the direction they decided to take them even if I disagree, but I don't believe their stats are adjusted correctly. Ultimately I believe it's a balancing decision, because CA doesn't want nurgle to have a relatively cheap and speedy infantry unit with AP and decent MD, but my statement comparing them to Gors still stands true.
Grandfather gives freely to all.
Which is why he's on a VP wing in a Cat C prison 😅
Epidemius maybe meta when the opposing faction does not have easy access to magic attack for his deamon buff?
Love this Hermes burocrate btw :)
What about having a unit of Popcorn bandits at Epidemius’s side and then intentionally feeding them to boost the tally of pestilence for the plaguebearers’ survivability?
Even if their actual model count is around 60, that is still going to be a huge buff, relative to plaguebearers’ HP pool
Marauders also seem to be a good sacrifice for the glory of the dark gods
It would also be so extremely on brand for him to intentionally throw nuglings to their deaths like that.
Marauders aren't deamons though
@@LuzikArbuzik77 Don't their deaths contribute towards the buff anyway?
i love epi-pen. he is my fave addition to the cast. when the dlc dropped i bought it as fast as i could and went to go play him despite being the free lord. i've been waiting for him for ages i knew once i saw the daemons come into the game he was inevitable.
I legit read the title as "Breaded Dragon" which is making me wonder what a "Deep Fried Dragon Wings" would taste like.
Probably something like alligator- which is better as jerky imo
Considering its a Toad Dragon, i dont think itd taste too good
This is why I love this channel, know the meta but have fun and experiment with the tool kit and find something fun! Not same matches over and over and over again.
I told my kid the other day that this basically replaced any sports or matches I used to check out in the past.
I'm just happy to see more nurgle. Grandfather is so happy! HAIL NURGLE!!!!!
An idea, for the game or your channel: one of the reasons I dislike the new domination format (I mean, domination in general compared to the old simple battles) is the supply system. On match start you do a nice flyover overview of each army, and back then that could get my brain working and follow events. Now I am like: ok where did that chaos knight come from? When even? At some point, he was summoned in. It would be really nice if the game would give us notification popups on the side that "Chaos Knights of Nurgle entered the battlefield", put a little flag next to it that the unit carries, and color code the next to the player. Would be a really nice quality of life improvement for the game's replay system, but as long as that isn't happening, perhaps your video editing too. So your commentary doesn't neccesarily have to involve a new unit being summoned in, but the viewers become aware of it anyway so it's not a surprise when there is a huge new unit in the middle of the background casually mentioned, making the strategy incredibly difficult to follow as a viewer.
It's so nice to see Nurgle get some additional tools that remedied some of their major weaknesses
It seems wisest to go in with Epidemius and a bunch of chaff infantry, like nurglings or marauders or marauders with great weapons, and then bring in the more expensive daemons after his scaling buff has ratcheted up a fair bit, rather than going in with the plaguebearers first thing.
I keep saying that Pestigors are probably the best addition to Nurgle. Rot knights deserve mention, but having mid tier infantry that come from vanguard, with speed, AP, missile rezist, high hp per model, and full capture weight, is so nice!
has CA said anything to you on adding the comunity made maps at all? would be really nice maybe not all of them but 2-3 would be a major deal and seems like its a no brainer.
Would be nice. CA cut some of the worst maps but added no new ones, so we are back down to a rotation of seven for Domination Quick Battles.
I’m praying they do coz Total Tavern map pack doesn’t show up in my in-game maps for sone reason :(( So I basically can’t play Dom because the CA dom maps are so utterly rubbish
Never never been a big Nurgle fan, but this was actually a pretty cool Nurgle army. Can't believe I said that. LOL
TOAD
Excellent videos as usual Turin! Thanks!
I wish I could get my hands on a Toad Dragon model for Old World. It’d be such a treat to paint!
I really like the meta of this game, I never would have expected plague bearers to be a useful domination unit
It just occurred to me, it'd be cool of Exalted Plaguebearers could fire while moving. It would make sense and wouldn't be a serious buff, yet in those very niche situations it could be impactful.
I like very much that you like to crack the meta bringing something new! Go on!
Love the attention nurgle is getting rn
Turin maybe you should ask the devs to add a heal counter beside the damage counter. I don't know if they would do it but it would definitely improve the casting experience, since healing is a big factor to offset damage taken
Maybe also the value of units running and crumbling. That tends to happen in certain matchups
I really want very heavy big mountain goat dwarf cavalry but idk if it would be "lore accurate"
Like those bighorn goats but big enough for dwarfs, with plate armor. They'd also be really slow but fast cavalry (for a dwarf cavalry)
I think there should be more "campaign-like" buff in multiplayer. The daemon-only ability gives me that vibe
We get any more Dread from Turin's channel and Bob Marley's gonna rise from his grave as a vampire lord
this felt like a lore accurate Nurgle build where you just slowly grind the enemy down with waves of nigh unkillable warriors and daemons while plagues ravage the enemy
what a super fun nurgle built :D
GG
love to see slayers be good :D
slayers, ironbreakers and organ guns should be a stable in all dwarf armies; would be so coool :D
love the nurgle built, so diverse in an awesome manner, and focus on nurgle grinding things which is just awesome.
love BIG SE monsters;
again any faction having them should have them as a stable; you could even easily put in a limit off 1 Monstrous SE per army; and then overbuff them so if available it's a no brainer.
would like points required to be a bit higher for longer fights and the gold usable to be MUCH higher... currently just bringing 1 big piece will serverely limit your army in numbers; returning to above comment, maybe just make them 1 per army and cut their price in half; making it viable to bring them and still have a lot off army ^^
heroes+lords should be limited as well; it doesn't seem right that 90% off ones army is in hero-lord and SE's or elites;
loooong ago tabletop had a rule 50%+ core units, max 25% lord+hero units, and max 25% elites+non-hero/lord SE's.
doing so creates much more reasonable armies; and honestly i think it would be a lot more fun to play and watch such bc it eliminates the most exploitable or broken builts; which essentially takes advantage off the opponent having absolutely No clue about what army is comming (since apparently its the worst general and scouts in the history off warhammer; as they mistake 6 SE's and 5 regiments for 2 SE and 20 regiments; before the battle :P
it also bugs my view when thinking about it; it takes a LOT off normal people to created and upkeep an elite; so the idea you would send nothing but elites, heroes and lords with no support into the battle; seems very broken (unless its a last stand scenario; but then you would know what it is; could also be a fun mode to watch for a couple off battles)
I do not get why toad dragon can’t get regen. makes no sense
Probably game balance...
But I agree there are a lot of units that deserve certain traits
Why doesn't it make sense? Regen is reserved for units that regrow parts of their body mid-fight, and Toad Dragons don't do that.
Do you think bringing uncle furuncle or a great unclean one in reserve to support Epidemius once his tally ability is at full strength could be good. Extra 20% phys res would make it mighty tanky.
Dwarfs laughing as they mow down daemons with arrows...
...Until the arrows start to bounce off the daemons.
Two of my favorites (Dwarfs and Nurgle)
The nurgle army abilities generate from contact effects?
I think giving toad dragon a solid increase to charge stat would help it out. Maybe not a unit you want to expose a lot but have it charge in do its thing and get out of there to be healed
GG well plagued!
Epidemius is so cool, love his campaign
Papa nurgle supremecy
Is a ability that allows the player to see the balance of power during the battle a fun idee?
does the tally work with the nurgle RoR that can regenerate models?
It should.
Great to see new units being tried out
prolly better to spam nurglings with epidemius in the first wave and follow up with plague bearers. no point wasting gold for deaths just for the buff. my 2 cents
Chosen, Chaos Knights, Dragons?! This was epic
Question for Turin; if CA gave the Toad Dragon a high missile resistance, say 55%, and didn't change any other stats or pricing, would it be more viable in multiplayer?
I know it's a bit out of context, but I really wander why I haven't seen the nuln ironsides in any mp battle or replay... are they that bad?
From what I understand, the strength of the ironsides is having them not move for that buff, and the Empire's lines are not solid enough to not have them moving.
They have to sit still to work, and that doesn't fly in dom.
Snipers simply outperform them for a cheaper price.
Thought you said "the italian man's blades" lol I thought omg is the hotdog stream back with italian spartacus???
Turin please go full slayer spam once in one of your runs
I really believe dwarfs with their new additions can put the fiercest fight with full slayer spam
A really good micro player can destroy anything with full slayer spam after this DLC
I want that forbidden double toad dragon tech
didn't the dwarves get a rework? did they rework the old lords because i still only seem to see thorek... :D
Love my nurgle lads
Hello! I’m new to this channel. Does Turin ever lose in these videos? I have watched a couple of battles and he always wins. If that’s the case it makes the ending a bit predictable, doesn’t it?
I lose plenty, but am a high level player myself. I post my losses as I get them, they are coming ;)
@@turinRTS thanks for your reply! Great channel btw, I loved your recent Clash tournament!
Am I the only who have never tried WH and still loves watching these videos :) ?
Wouldn't a soul grinder do pretty much everything the toad dragon does, with the upside of being Daemonic as well (if you're taking Epidemius)?
They have a lot less HP (a soul grinder would've died) and no breath attacks, which were actually quite useful in this game.
The new ROR soulgrinder attacks and projectile eats ammo.
Plus the projectiles leaves a tiny well on impact.
@@lich109 its a stretch but I'm considering the soul grinder's bombardments as similar to the breath attack
@@badgersauce They are not at all similar. The breath passes through models without hitting the ground and can kill multiple units in one pass, the mortar shots cannot. The breath also does way more damage than the mortar. The upside for the mortar is it's way easier to use thanks to its range and arcing shots, while the breath cannot be used like that.
@@lich109 fair enough
Nurgle! Nurgle! Nurgle!
I want to have a tame toad dragon as a friend.
40 percent resist is no joke jut to be able to stop enemy from advance
People underestimate these single entities. Yes, they're easily countered. But most people don't expect you to actually bring them as a result so they don't bring anything to actually counter them effectively, and a decent player can still use it even if there are counters.
Also the thing is that yes, it didn't get a huge amount of value, but still every second the crossbows spend shooting it instead of someone on the point without actually killing the dragon means a second they wasted basically. So it's a huge distraction that's so scary for the opponent that they often overcommit to killing it and it can cost them the game imo.
Ribbit "intensify"
I actually think if the toad dragon was kept in reserves instead of the initial army that would have been better. The dwarves wouldn’t have known for sure it was there to prepare for it, and you could have gotten most of their ranged units busy with other things before you brought it out to win over the center.
Honestly the toad dragon functioned excellently as a discration carnifex. All that shooting to not even kill it, allowing the rest of the army to arrive much much healthier.
If it was in reserves the front line would've been shot to pieces.
I need some Orion
Bringing a Toad Dragon against Dwarfs.
I'm sorry Turin, I'm just not that Brave.
Weird that a Dragon in total war can be a liability, while.they are OP on tabletop now
Toad Dragons are not real dragons, despite the name. They are just huge creatures that are only called dragons because of their size and power.
I think these big single entities need way more missile resistance, they are countered by focused fire way too hard.
imagine this build vs Greenskins!
I'm a bit miffed that the toad dragon is so underwhelming, especially considering how overtuned the centerpieces for empire and dwarfs are. Toad has all the usual issues large melee monsters have (price, getting to their target, huge hitbox for missiles) and for some reason it has less health, charge bonus and armor than the landship even though it costs more and needs those stats more for its role. Breath attack on a non-flying unit just isn't that useful since unlike on a dragon you can't choose good angles and you get into some melee contact way easier so you can't use it or it gets interrupted. The unit is just a waste of funds along with k'daai destroyer and elemental bear, wish they had some utility that wasn't a mortis effect or self-healing.
Breath attacks on non-flying units are better than on fliers, we saw that proven time and time again with Felkon's Hydra usage. The reason it's better is because it hits everything in between, and past its target, so while dragons were killing units, hydras were killing entire battle lines.
It is harder to use, but it should be. If something is more powerful one way, then it should have a drawback.
Now I'm not saying the Toad Dragon is good, but I do disagree with the sentiment that its breath is bad because it's harder to use.
@@lich109lol no. A dragon can one shot any inf squad with one breath when hit on the side.
You can't do that reliably with the elemental bear.
Same goes with toad dragon.
Also, any shotgunner would melt those big monsters easily.
@@jacksheldon8566 The elemental bear has an entirely different breath attack to the Toad Dragon and Hydra. If you think the Toad Dragon can't nuke units, then please put up a video where it's in a unit's flank, launches its attack, and the unit easily survives.
What shotgunners do to monsters is irrelevant (they also melt dragons), I already mentioned it's not a good monster, but you are categorically wrong on the breath attacks of the Toad Dragon and Hydra. If you're going to test the Hydra, then please test the Chill of Sontar since that was the one Felkon used to delete multiple units at a time.
@@lich109 it is slower and harder to get that side shot with such a big land monster.
Very risky too as you cannot dodge projectiles effectively.
@@jacksheldon8566 I already addressed this in my first reply to the OP.
no fire? no artillery, way too much chaff for dwarfs i think ngl. Why not hamerers with magical attacks? why not, idk, more doomseekers to kill all those low armor units. or maybe some iron drakes with fire to clean up . hmmmm idk.
also the scythe thing you were talking about is actually very lore accurate for nurgle. i think its more often used in 40k since the primarch and a few other important named characters use them and i think theres a group called "The scythes of nurgle" and in Age of Sigmar people talk about the blightkings but my favorite are the pusgoyle blightlords which are basically the same thing but on rot flies and i got a couple with scythes. i def think the chaos knights should have a scythe instead of an axe or put a chosen on a rotfly or something.
Pusgoyle Blight lords didn't exist in Fantasy, there is a Nurgle Lord with a scythe but usually Nurgle's forces go for more practical weapons.
@@lich109 i did state age of sigmar goober.
@@lich109 scythes of nurgle are 40k like i said.
@@spoof6023 I wasn't talking about the Scythes of Nurgle, and plenty of people commonly use AoS models and Fantasy ones interchangeably which is why I wrote that.
@@lich109 i got ya but i did specify age of sigmar.
why would he not bring thunderbarge in main army
He's a good sport or it's banned
the Thunderbird is OP because it's hitbox is so small compared to its body you can have a land ship shoot at it and half of the canon shots and musket balls faze through the airbag so it doesn't take damage from those shots that definitely hit in fact it's probably more important to hit the airbag then the gondola.
@@Wanderer-nw2so It's also OP/banned because it puts out an absurd amount of damage.
@@lich109 The damage is pretty much fine imo, but it's way too durable with little to no counterplay... So I think they should make the boost a tiny bit slower (like +150% instead of 200) and maybe double the damage it does? So the player needs to think when to activate it. And maybe lower the HP a bit too?
I think they could bring another TT aspect to help Toad Dragons. On the tabletop they had a special rule where they could not be wounded on a die roll better than a 3+ (or 4+ if you were Tamurkhan's mount), and even if you wounded automatically, it would ignore that rule and you'd still be forced to roll 3+ to wound them.
They could bring that in here, so that Toad Dragons have a chance to just ignore an attack that hits, similar to missile block, but for both missiles and melee attacks. Even if the chance to trigger it is low it would help them a lot.
I don't know anything about game development but wouldn't something like that be really hard to code?
@@Mortarion-xt9wp Depends on how ranged attacks and melee attacks are tracked. I don't think it would be too bad though, since you'd just give it missile block chance for ranged attacks. As for how melee attacks work, all melee swings are chance-based already, and this is just a second check on the same principle, roll the attack again, albeit on an unchanging percentage unaffected by melee attack or melee defence, to see if the attack misses.
Maybe I'm wrong and it's very hard to implement, but I hope not.
Complete dmg ignore even with a low chance is stupid.
There are a lot of single entities in the game with high dmg per hit, but low attack speed, whose dmg could easily vary by a few thousand depending on someone’s luck.
@@Lukashoffmann94 I'm fully aware, and that's already in the game thanks to how Melee Attack and Melee Defense works. Every unit in the game already has a chance to completely ignore damage, this is nothing new.
@@lich109 But your ability would include artillery, which currently no one has invulnerability to.
Hexwraiths have scythes, so why not Nurgle Knights?
I hate new dom. Swarm the objectives and you have 500 points and win until they get you off there. That's the new playstyle it looks like.
yeah man the old dom was wayyy more exciting
- 3 minutes of staring at each other
-repositioning ??
-swarm the objectives with counters
@@renzbolado153 It's completely irrelevant what you find exciting.
You fail to understand we're talking about game balance, and game balance has been skewed entirely in favor of swarm armies.
You will rarely see shooting armies win, if ever, since by the time the shooting armies organize well, the swarm already has 500 points and the game is over.
@@Lightzy1 bro what are you talking about
Empire and dawi are killing it right now with Cathay not too far behind
Only shooting faction thats suffering is vampire coast and maybe Skaven
@@renzbolado153 When you give factions via DLC units that completely shore up all their faction weaknesses and are so efficient they completely replace a large chunk of a race's roster, that race will do better.
@@Lightzy1 yeah no shit, but here you are also saying shooting factions are in the trash when they're not
I'll admit the difficulty required to pull off a win with them is higher than the majority of the melee factions, but that doesnt retract from the faction's overall strength
Besides the skillbarge, the dawi really look like the weakest of the 3 DLC factions. While supercool flavourwise, the slayer variants dont seem all that gamechanging.
They're very game changing, the Dwarfs not only got access to their own Blunderbusses but they also gained a vanguard anti-infantry specialist, which plugs one of the biggest holes in their roster.
@@lich109 the blunderbusses are not bad, it just "more of the same", shooty-killy ranged units.
Whether the slayer variants will indeed change the meta for dwarfs remain to be seen. I have my doubts, to me it seems dwarf playstyle is still quite the same and easily counterpicked.
@@lolsovs It's not the same at all, Blunderbusses are one of the most devastating units in the entire game.
A fast vanguard unit is going to have huge ramifications, I have no idea how you see that and declare them to be the same.
@@lich109 ok bro... Guess time will tell ;-)
The shotgunners and new gyro bomber are game changing.
The barge is also a BIG threat you need to prepare against.
When facing dwarves, you now have to bring anti air and avoid bringing big monsters.