Trans vs Conservative Men: Is Masculinity Disappearing in America? | Middle Ground
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
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00:00 Intro
00:53 Masculinity is disappearing in America
06:51 There is a right and wrong way to be a man
10:14 I have male privilege
18:08 Biology determines gender
29:00 Children should be allowed to transition
36:13 I grew up with a positive father figure
41:11 I don't show emotion as much as I'd like
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"it's ok to suffer in silence"
"men's suicide rate are higher"
dude, my dude connect the dots
Men are mostly depressed because of lack of purpose and direction.
False equivalents, but there are different dots to connect. Such as that society gives limited resources to men and that they lack purpose or duty. Men don't want to give out emotions because they don't have to or most people don't really want to care about their issues so they must endure and become stoic for they know. Help isn't coming or it won't come in time.
If jubilee was shady the next question after that "suffer in silence" should had been whether forms of masculinity can be toxic.
@@kovacsnovak6745 ^^
you never heard of stocism
The gay conservative guy saying "seeking acceptance starts with accepting society as it is" is the absolute peak of irony. Just 30 years ago, he would _never_ have been accepted if everyone just rolled over and accepted the way society was. How does he think society came to be accepting of gay people? It's from people working to CHANGE society.
THIS!!
Exactly what I thought
society moves in a predictable pattern. Normal? no Secret, Scandal, Threat assessment, Action. you have to accept society is what it is, and that it won't like it, to keep it a secret. and you have to keep it a secret to put the chain in motion.
@@ubergamer0198 republicans want a repressed society.
Gay
I didn't realise that crying and laying on the ground was a feminine trait displayed by women. Thankyou for educating me Brandon.
😂😂😂
testosterone is scientifically proven to cause less emotion. So it is 100% more a woman trait to cry because guess what...... they have less testosterone
I mean, if you were told that someone in the next room was crying on the floor, and you had to guess their sex for $50,000, where's the smart money?
@@TommyTombstone yep id say either female or someone who changed their gender because their viewpoints and mindset are simply put, weaker than other people who can accept society and nature as it is. You don’t see female cows trying to be male. It’s just selfish for them to want the world to accept and respect them because that’s selfish asf. And they realize that so they try and justify that selfishness by saying “oh its not just me now its a whole group of me now”. It’s the mob effect where people are much worse things like being selfish and attacking people of other beliefs because they feel a bit of anonymity just because they’re in a group. The biggest difference difference imo is that we too are animals but we are just a bit smarter. Our beliefs are just nature. Males are supposed to protect and feed the females and in return, females give birth and advance the population. That’s just how it is. So when you try to go against nature itself, you cannot just glorify it saying “yass girl we are going against the norm”, that’s just you trying to justify your shitty actions trying to play victim. so you are not entitled to anybody respecting you or acknowledging you because that was ultimately *your choice*
@@TommyTombstone I would guess this person was a child and they could be any gender. Where are people going in the world that they are seeing grown women crying on the ground??? lol I have literally never encountered this.
This episode was so much more civil than I ever could have imagined, one of the men literally stopped interrupting another and said "I'm sorry you're still speaking"
Almost unfathomable to me but here's the video to prove it.
Adults exist you know.
@@kornuithildr4129 yeah you must not have watched any other middle ground videos because most of the time its people yelling over each other and not listening to what the other side has to say.
@@kornuithildr4129 and yet you're not one
How is Brandon gonna say that Men should suffer in silence but then also say that Men commit suicide more often a minute later as if those two statements don’t contradict themselves? 💀
Right?? 😭😭
Conservatives do this all the time. They are always making the point but also just missing it
Because it's how men have been wired for survival ultimately. Men who can control their emotions, stoic in the face of adversity, assertive and motivated instead of passive and lazy, who remain analytical even when upset or angry, just were able to survive better over the past millions of years. If a family member passed away, our grandfathers still had to work in the mines the next day or do some other laborious job WHILE grieving. Any mental health issues that would inhibit our grandfathers from working would result in the failure of our families. If there was a war between tribes or countries, the men who fought in them had to control their emotions. We have been wired to be this way. And if you aren't built like this then society would be tough for you, but that doesn't mean we should not want men who cannot control their emotions.
@@TheStoicBrowser many men CANNOT control their emotions tho. The amount of unprovoked violence we hear about that men start is too much. There are men killing their entire families over nonsense. There are too many men who act like they are in control of their emotions but they are overgrown children who hurt others. I dont see this level of emotional instability from women.
His entire platform is a big contradiction. I’m not a liberal or a conservative but he has skewed and problematic views on the Black community as a collective. His wife is White, which is fine, but what he does is put Black women down in the process to praise the White race of women. The fact that he tried to do the “what aboutisms” when they discussed r*pe and cat calling, it was VERY disingenuous. I don’t even think he believed what he said.
that one dude: "it's okay to suffer in silence"
him later, trying to say male privilege isn't real: "men commit suicide at higher rates than women"
like sir... you're almost there, you just gotta connect the dots
literally 😂😂
He's misexplaining stoicism.
And not showing emotion is not the main reason for suicide, it can/has been part of it.
The thing is, men use lethal means of force, however; Women attempt it more-- so is that an indicator that they're more screwed up? You just gotta connect the dots 😏
it is okay to suffer in silence just if your gonna do it know your strong enough to do it
@@zachman5150 exactly. Women attempt it more. In fact almost every girl Ik had attempted it but mostly by just trying to swallow too many pills or something. Men on the other hand will jump off cliffs, hang themselves, shoot themselves and the like with a super high success rate. This implies that men are generally wayyyy more depressed and genuinely see no way out
Kudos to Brandon and Buck to have such a way with their dialog towards the topics presented while being on opposing sides.
Brandon and Buck's convo on the 'Biology determines gender' prompt was absolutely beautiful. I can't stop rewatching it. So respectful and eloquent! Positivity! The world needs more Brandons and Bucks :)
So npc
I agree 💯❤️
just brandons
No Brandons actually
Sure, biology determines gender. But what happens when a part of your brain that is responsible for gender identity does not agree or understand the gender you are born into? That quite literally is the trans experience fyi
You know it’s gonna get toxic when they put a disclaimer at the beginning lol 🍿
You mean interesting debate?
@@tibodeclercq2131 There's always been war. And there's always time for a discussion like this to be sparked.
@@szasbaddest1 yeah but to see it as a first category problem is ridiculous
@@tibodeclercq2131 It's definitely not a first category problem but I think ppl talk abt things they can have control over. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think anyone in this video can actively fix the situation is Ukraine.
@@tibodeclercq2131 no one said it was a first category problem. Do you piss your pants over anyone talking about an issue aswell? Or is it just when trans people are mentioned?
“My wife has privilege because she has me” had me crying shitting myself.
You may laugh but his wife probably sees it as a privilege too
@@pierrehenry3483 it’s a privilege when he goes to work and gets away from her lmfao
Do you need to wipe?
FR BRO
you should get control of your bowels
I absolutely love the Middle Ground series. Its so humanizing and refreshing.
Clarkson is giving me uncanny valley vibes I’m so scared rn
He’s a robot
He’s not as smart as he thinks he is.
I'm a woman, and I don't cry on the "ground." I cry when I walk
Genius
Well, you walk on the ground. So, technically, you'd still be crying on the ground.
@@AJ-lm5dl Ha technically we are floating, so I'm technically not touching anything lol
Try a visit to the podiatrist and a more comfortable pair of shoes.
The narrative suggests that gender is fluid, and simultaneously suggests that the justification for gender reassignment surgery and treatment is that the girl who's trapped in a male body, has an immutable male identity. Both can't be true
i’m pretty sure it wasn’t meant literally
"they want us to cry and lay on the ground, like a woman" wow that speaks volumes
Was that really your take away from that? wow
@@zachman5150 I will admit he got better towards the end but yeah, I suppose some of the stuff coming out of any of their mouths did leave me shocked. Doesn't mean it's the only thing I took away from this all of the convo though. :)
@@rush_amanda to be fair that is what girls do, or more so the ones I've met.
@@breadletsky473 well,, you can't say that every single girl ever lays on the ground and cries because that's "what girls do" based on the few girls you know ..
@@sleepymars5991 in general women are much more open about their emotions, and more emotional at that
Mad respect to Brandon for being open to learning and growing.
Unfortunately nowadays he’s unbearable
@@rickyaburgoswhat do u mean?
@rickyaburgos how do you know?
@@rickyaburgoshe also doesn’t follow the Bible
@@angieg38 cuz he’s active on social media and has done if the most questionable and racist takes, he favors making content for white people
Wow, this was very powerful. I can't get enough of witnessing people being respectful and open to letting others different from themselves share their unique, personal experiences. Incredible.
This was so hard to watch as a woman. The misunderstanding of women is underlining the cis men’s opinions on trans men.
What do you mean by the second sentence?
@@namedasurname3968 kneel before a dictionary for your pitiful vocabulary instead
@@namedasurname3968 there’s no brainwashing, you just need to stop shaming people for existing
@@ExecutiveGoth No, there is. WORSE for them
@@namedasurname3968 I mean no, it really isn't that hard. There's only one new word and you already seem to know what it means, so either you're willfully ignorant or you're the one who's been brainwashed.
Dude actually argued for "men can cry but should suffer in silence" then used "men commit more suicide" as an argument 2min later... cmon dude ... 🤣
Fact check: women attempt suicide more but have a much lower success rate, usually due to less lethal means. Anecdotal evidence: of all the times I have been to a mental hospital, there have always been more women than men.
Lmfao
why do the woman and men be sad like bro just take a hike up a high mountain and you will feel fine
@@hamburger9677 3 sips of beer
@@rich842 exactly
I've been watching these for the last few hours, and I have to say, this was the most calmest and respectful episode I've seen yet
This is one of the best things i have seen. Adults sitting down and CONVERSING with one another is so great. This is how ALL of humanity needs to be. Thank you to EACH person for doing this. 😊
As a woman, I don’t not feel empowered because of the vise president. I feel empowered by my own damn self.
for reaaal
wish more women thought lik you
Vise president?
when he said that i cringed. especially when he said “we aren’t talking about the 1920s”..a lot of things are systematic because of what happened in history
@George Floyd May Rot in Hell isnt the alpha theory a super chad thing anyway? I dont know of any important individual that spends 1 second of their day considering wether theyre alpha beta sigma omega ...its all more subversive capitalist bullpoo.
I’m just a bit perturbed when I keep hearing feminine traits being referred to as weakness…I’m very feminine and I’ve never fell out on the floor crying. As if we don’t have any self control and the ability to manage our own emotions. That should be a human trait.
Right!! Like uncontrollable emotions aren't the same as simply being in TOUCH with your emotions and being able to feel each one. He's just a well trained drone. He's textbook
Agreed this video made me really angry
Because women are known for being controlled by their emotions. It’s exactly why they were never looked to to lead. Women are made that way for a reason. Nothing wrong with it…but it’s why men and women have their roles. Working to echo others strengths and weaknesses
@@Morrow45105 that is flawed logic. someone isn't "created" or born to be more emotional in others. it's just socially acceptable for women to express their emotions and not men. these concepts of what women should do or what men should do is what humans created
Wrong! Men and women are wired different. Men are more logical based and women are more emotional based. Women are more in touch with their emotions than men are. Both men and women think logically but 99% of the time. Women think emotionally. It's a fact whether you like it or not. Men and women are wired differently.
Best episode so far. So much insight, empathy, and wisdom from everyone involved. Love it!
I find myself more conservative leaning and i absolutely loved buck, super kind and open minded.
Buck is also conservative so
If showing your emotions by crying is seen as weakness, surely showing your emotions by getting angry or losing your temper should also be seen as weakness...
It is one
It is that way
@@wd4440 That was literally my point, that a lot of guys will act like crying is weakness but losing your temper and being aggressive makes you an "alpha" or something...
Being unable to control your temper is definitely seen as a weakness, yup. Nobody disagrees. That doesn't mean that anger is useless and can't be channeled into something powerful though. But throwing a tantrum? Weakness.
EXACTLY!! I ALWAYS tell men they are being emotional as well by being angry and using force. Thats the same as crying. So yes men can be 100% emotional people
They need a curve ball question when everyone is just standing like "should learning a kickflip be required in schools?" And just see the reaction lol just a tension breaker of sorts
Is a hot dog a sandwich?
@@monissiddiqui6559 this would get way more heated than any of the questions in the video lol. Same with “Is water wet?”
CGC
everyone should try. that'd be fun
Yeah!!! Something straight out of left field like, : ankle or calf length socks?"
This was the most productive and healthy debates that I’ve seen about this or relating topics. I think the representation was immaculate and this is the best this conversation could’ve been. Thank you so much for this engaging and educational content.
This is one of the calmest Middle Ground videos I've ever seen, lol. I appreciate and respect everyone's perspective here and it was nice to see very little yelling.
Men absolutely can cry. As a therapist, you might be surprised to know that men cry just as much. It is human. It is healing. Feelings ought to be felt by the body.
Male levels of testosterone actually do make it harder, physically, to cry.
@@katieandnick4113 true but doesn’t mean they cant though because they still cry
@@katieandnick4113 That doesn’t make it impossible. Humans cry. Emotions don’t give a damn about what gender or sex you are. Bottom line is that western social conditioning is what prevents men from crying. It’s *unnatural* to suppress crying. Crying is neither feminine nor masculine.
@@katieandnick4113 as a health professional, let me tell you…that is really not true. At all. Men have been socialized not to cry from day one. Big boys don’t cry, etc. My male clients actually are more emotional and often times cry more. I also have a lot of male clients. Testosterone may have a very minor effect. Once men are given permission to cry…they let it out.
Just as much? That is not true.
It still baffles me that people see crying and emotion as unmasculine. All humans have emotions men and women.
It is not about a single act of crying making you a woman. It is about overdoing it.
Showing emotions does make you weak.
@@houseofmatrix6174 how? Explain please I'd like to hear your logic on this. How does showing ones emotions that are hardwired into each human brain make them weak?
@@houseofmatrix6174 No it doesn't. But being irrational and lacking common sense does, especially when emotions are involved.
Thank u
Probably my favorite “middle ground” conversation yet ! Nice 👍🏼 the entire panel was amazing and extremely informative ❤
I loved the respect these two groups gave eachother they actually spoke AND listened to each-other…this was very well done.
They should have a convo between trans people and people who de-transitioned.
Wow. That would be very interesting
This needs more likes!
i feel like they'd agree on most things because both felt disattachment to their agab at a point.
Yes
🎯🎯🎯
"some people believe that men need to cry and lay on the ground and be feminine like women" crying is not a gendered activity lmfao it's a natural human response
Men cry but certainly a lot less than women...and that too in solitude.
It's gendered that way.
I’m not a woman, but also I didn’t think that lying on the ground crying was something particularly commonplace of women. Like not saying it’s an abnormal response depending on the circumstance, but the point comes across like women have no restraint on their emotions
@@arbazahmad5690 men usually cry less because then were raised to think that boys shouldn’t cry or get made fun of in school for doing so. My boyfriend cries a lot (like when watching media) but he doesn’t cry around others.
Similarly, I (a woman), used to a cry a lot but now don’t because I was told a lot as a child that I was too sensitive.
Being inherently weak and having a victim mentality is 100% not a traditionally masculine trait
@@cameronhester1388 It is
Seeing both sides respect eachother is really nice to see, in a lot of these videos i see the two sides usually start yelling and such, really nice sight to see
Jubilee, I love your disclaimer message at the beginning of each video. There is humanity in us all, and I love that you encourage others, despite how controversial these topics can be, to approach each other with empathy and kindness. Keep doing these videos. It’s great to see people with such different lives and views to come together on something, anything.
Cant’t believe the guy actually believes crying is feminine
Yeah.. no words..
If men weren't supposed to cry then they wouldn't have tearducts
He is delusional and insecure 😟. I also know women who think , the same.
I laughed a bit when he said that. Everyone can and should cry. It's healthy and it's there for a reason
Y'all misunderstood what he said waaaay to easily. What he actually said was that you can't expect men to show emotion or vulnerability the same ways as women, which they don't.
Why is 'being emotional' always reduced to 'crying' and therefore showing 'weakness'? There's a whole spectrum of emotions (also positive ones) and ways of expressing them. Being in tune with your emotions and not being afraid of expressing them to others may be one of the strongest character traits one can have and it will prevent so many mental health issues. If you want to talk about men's suicide rates, this is a big part of the solution.
Crying is basically when emotions override logic. The "weakness" is when you can no longer debate and provide points and counterpoints, but instead it's an over emotional crying response that elicits a reaction of sorrow from others.
A lot of men are depressed because they don’t have duty or purpose in life
Because its part of it.
I don't know what you mean with being in tune with you emotions, but if it means that you're able to recognize what and why are you feeling things I agree.
We express emotions but some of them are not for show; we have to deal with them alone, and being able to do so makes you stronger, not sharing them.
@@avilio6574 Can you give me an example of emotions that you must deal with alone? I agree that in certain situations you have to be able to contain your emotions at the time, for example in the workplace. But when you go and have a drink with a friend after a tough day, I think you must be able to express and discuss those same emotions. That's how you process emotions. If you have no-one to confide in, to be vulnerable with, you will inevitably feel alone and get stuck with these negative emotions. Which results in depression or violence as an outlet. That's not strength, that's creating mental health issues.
@@PlayafromtheHimalayas Crying is simply a biological response to any type of strong emotion, including happiness. Some people cry easily, which isn't because they're 'overly emotional' or weak, it's simply how their bodies react. Men also tend to forget that when they react angry and aggressive in certain situations, they are actually the overly emotional ones.
News flash! Women do not men to lead them anywhere. If that is an insult to your masculinity, then you need to take a deep breath and change your attitude. We need a partner not a dad.
Stop speaking on behalf of all women. If you believe that for yourself then that’s alright. I’m sure there are many women just like you but tons of other real women disagree with you.
@@Cortez0 “Real”?
The majority of women actually agree with her over you
🙌🏻 Buck so much knowledge and insight!
I really appreciate that they brought in people of different ages, ethnicities and experiences on both sides. This was about as respectful as this conversation could’ve been.
But if on the one side is one media-experienced celeb, Buck Angel, on the other side better also should be one.
@@matheust.2717 thank you, I didn't know him. But also could be Buck is less celeb than I think in general US population than in trans related people from other countries like me. :-)
Literally! And the fact that the episode was long. I felt like these people really had the time and screen-time to voice themself fully
@@kimmietwining4474 That would have been very interesting. He did do a debate on Dr. Phil regarding gender and pronouns not that long ago.
@@peanutbutter8986 Yeah it was interesting. He completely dismantled the trans pronoun argument. But I wonder how it would have gone with these trans people. They have more experience and use common sense. Leading to more sophisticated arguments. I would've loved to see that
Doing a female version of this would be very interesting. Great video!
@Ashley link?
just searched and didn't see it
They would all just start crying lol🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@ClashOfGamesV1 wtf bro
I'm going to be honest, it would not be the same, nobody would care if femininity disappeared. Masculinity, on the other hand, can be a issue due to the large number of values that society intrinsically associated with males.
@@isaacvazquez627 not true, straight biological men would care if feminity disappear! Whether they know it or not , straight men are attracted to feminine features and traits
I like the fact that everyone was mature in this conversation i really expected them to fight but they were very understanding of each other's view
These discussions are beautiful.
You really understand the humanity behind the positions we take up in life.
I hope everyone is ok and happy.
Something that confused me was about 30 minutes in, one guy said he gets his validation from within. Earlier in the video, they were saying they feel less manly when a woman doesn't need them. Is it just me or do these two trains of thought go completely against one another?
‼️‼️
fr. him saying that he's never needed outside validation because he has it from within was a plain lie
I noticed that too. Very hypocritical.
Who are we kidding- it's clear these kinds of men are the most vulnerable when it comes to feeding that ego externally. Interesting to point that the validation they seek is just as much (if not more) from other men as from the women they surround themselves with 🤷♀️
He is lying to himself
"I just use _their_ name... I feel like I'm giving into the narrative that men can be women and women can be men if I use the pronouns that _they_ want." I've gotta say seeing a conservative use they/them to avoid properly gendering a trans person is a new one to me.
as soon as i saw how much he tried to avoid using the correct pronouns for his trans friend, to the point he started using they/them, i knew what arguments that dude would be bringing up 😭
I'm sorry but I feel so bad for that guy's friend 😭 imagine actually liking someone that disagrees with your existence. He must really like him if he stays his friend despite that.
(Not judging btw, I've been through that too, it's just,, upsetting)
I don’t think he was using they/them pronouns. People have been using “their” instead of “he or she” in grammar for a long time grammatically speaking. It’s incorrect technically but that’s just the language that has been used. We gotta realize how recently the concept of choosing pronouns is.
@@cobrabosse it's funny bc he mentioned that he didn't agree that language could be changed but he's a living example of a person using language that's constantly evolving
@@cobrabosse Two things. One: if people have been using a word a certain way for a long time then it is not technically incorrect. Language is living and spoken, and trying to apply rules to it that go against the instincts or understanding of native speakers is called prescriptivism. This is generally frowned upon. Second: he was using the words “they”, “them”, and “their” in place of a proper noun (his friends name). That’s a pronoun. The part of speech that he was using is called a pronoun, and the use of these pronouns for a single known individual is generally what conservatives rally against. I was just noting how interesting it was.
So the guy has a trans "friend" yet wont respect their pronouns. They dont even have to accept it or support it but just be respectful and he calls himself a friend 😂 what a joke
Yeah I have a feeling his "trans friend" doesn't exist.
Notice that nobody was at war with one another? This was one of the most peaceful debates I think I have seen on this channel. Was more like a guys day out hanging with the boys just having a discussion about random topics. I actually enjoyed this fully.
Privilege doesn't mean your life is fantastic and you don't suffer. It means you don't have to tackle the same issues or challenges that others do.
👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
The problem is that so many people like to throw that word around as a means of having justification to attack or be prejudiced against other people.
I get so frustrated when people don’t understand it or worse, just refuse to. Makes my blood boil.
But no one does.... Regardless of race or gender. No one will face the same exact walk as anyone else.
@@GenXfrom75 yes, and often tines that is because of gender, sex, skin color ect.
‘Accepting society for what it is’ doesn’t make people happy, it makes them indifferent to suffering that doesn’t affect them. Indifference is not happiness. Society can and should be continuously improved upon.
he was talking as if he wouldve enjoyed living in 1300
Yes, and all biological creatures need to evolve in order to be better suited for the new environment, both socially and literally. What worked back then may not work now, especially if what "worked" back then glossed over the plight of other groups of people.
Why should I accept the society for what it is if the society can't accept me for what I am?
@@Nadia-id4bu the short answer: you can only control yourself and how you respond to things, you can’t control the way society is or how it responds to things.
I lost a mother when I was 11 to cancer, I accepted it for what it is but in no way did it make me indifferent to missing her or to anyone else having to go through something similar. You conflate acceptance with indifference, acceptance is realizing the reality that's presented in front of you and not simply trying to upend everything at the cost of social cohesion just so we ourselves can feel better while everyone else is more confused than ever.
luckie is i think the absolute best. i loved him so much throughout this whole episode.
I loved this group. How they all put their perspective without being shutdown and considered bigot. The whole point of difference is opinion its beautiful and opens doors for conversations.
Damn this one was a rollercoaster, you can really see in some of their eyes the hurt they feel, but verbally are being respectful. When Clarkson tells the trans men they are not men, I was ready to see everything blow up.
he was just being honest.
@@ttrager3 hey there. I’m not sure I understand. Just to clarify, are you saying that then trans men don’t want to be called men?
@@Lucas-nf9xc I was surprised it just didn't get more heated then it did after Clarkson's comment.
@@sierrabell4527 I was also surprised when things went so smoothly...But I think there was a cut in the video around the argument so they may have cut that part out, nonetheless, a very civil session!
To be honest it's the truth not a nice one though.
Brandon really said men should “suffer in silence” and then say that men have the highest rate of suicide and didn’t think maybe there’s a correlation.
The implication is to "suffer if silence" sometimes. He didn't mean all the time. And I think there's truth in that statement.
To suffer in silence doesn't mean bottle up your emotions 24/7. It means to bottle them up in that particular circumstance and let it all out later in a better setting.
That's different from men who suppress sadness/guilt/hurt all the time.
There isn't
Men need support structures
Men didn't cry in the 60s , but they had support structures so suicide rates were low
Feminists destroyed those support structures
so then how do you explain the fact that women self mutilation is more prevalent amongst women, but not suicide? men have a higher suicide rate simply because our genetic profile is to be more aggressive and impulsive than women.
@@shuarma0 genetic profile? saying aggression results in suicide is a stretch, also suicide isnt usually a quick impulsive decision, its rather something u think over for a long period of time.
This was the most civil, respectful and mature debate. Respectful was the most important part. Beautiful to see guys.
love this conversation both sides are open and honest and generally respectful
No, men should NOT suffer in silence. Bad take. If you’re reading this, please know that no one should suffer in silence. That’s called abuse.
If someone is also reading this and came down to the replies, chose VERY carefully who you want to share your suffering with. Most people are not trustworthy, and letting all your emotions out to the wrong person could encourage them to use it against you. While suffering in silence isn't great also don't go around telling most people what you are going through, they would either just make fun of you for not being able to cope or use it against you, been through that before. So be incredibly careful about who you share your stuff with.
Because bottom line is, if you share your stuff with most people they will make it even worse for you by saying the wrong things.
Yes and no
@@Kaledrone %100
No...just no....
@@Kaledrone thats why you should see a professional if possible
It's super weird that people use Timothee as an example of non-masculine men. His face and style is overall very masculine. Is it just because he's skinnier and actually knows how to dress himself in clothes that fit and aren't plain black?
@@Ipomoeas his face has very masculine features
@@morijin5568 hard disagree
@@zsmusic8708 And why?
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 Because I don't think two of the transmen look masculine at all lol. Little bit of facial hair but, they're super short. Sit effeminatly. Not saying that's a bad thing, i just don't think they look masculine in my own opinion.
I thought that was funny too. He's just skinny, he doesn't even dress feminine lol
This debate was so interesting and unique. Depending on the topic i heavily agreed or disagreed with either side differently
That may have been the most honest, sincere and peaceful “middle ground” episode I’ve ever watched. No one agreed completely with anyone else and yet I got the sense that they all came together and shared a mutual respect and understanding with one another in part because they really listened and heard one another. And I also adore Buck to pieces ❤
not the gay conservative saying to accept society the way it is… girl you should’ve accepted the way it was before gay marriage was legal then LMAO
😂😂😂😂😂😂bruh just looking at him pisses me off.
This whole episode for him was just an ad for the DL Republicans on Grindr he’s gonna hook up with later
@@sylviaswayne 💀
When did he say that tho
@@GrassWarlock1 around 7:50 🤣🤣
Brandon: Men should suffer in silence
Also Brandon: Men commit suicide at higher rates, it's a problem
Suffering in silence and bottling up your emotions are different things, I think that those who deny suffering and bottle up their emotions are the ones that are commiting suicide because they can't express emotions to even themselves.
Lol right. There is a disconnect there. The contradiction.
@@mechamach8873 they are not really that different. Someone who suffers in silence tend to bottle up their feelings. Which increases chances of them worsening their mental health.
@@michaellakosia6876 the key is to suffer in silence and open up when in a better setting, suffering openly only makes me and most men feel weak
Brandon is very confused. And fragile
This debate. Waouh. More people need to be like that. Loved every minute of it ❤️❤️🤝
This conversation was phenomenal!! ❤
“it’s okay to suffer in silence” ….literally a minute later “they commit suicides more” does brandon even hear himself😭😭
of course he's homophobic too. i rly dont get how ppl can still be hmophobic in western countries. many animals are gay and its not harmful. peopel raised by gay parents turn out fine. theyve done studies. yeah sure i get it u need a male and a female to make a baby so many ppl thought homosexuality was wrong and weird. i used to think it was wrong too. but its just one of those aspects of nature that is 'different' but totally normal. and supposedly it just has more to do with genetics cuz if one family member is gay theres a higher chance their kid or sibling or something will be. lol something along those lines
Not the toxic masculinity of him interrupting people trying to talk
@@Ken.Kaleidoscope interrupting people is masculine now???? White women rn: 😴 🤐
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. I agree with Brandon on that 100%
Obviously you shouldn't bottle up major feelings, but crying at every little thing is equally as counterproductive. You need to be able to weather storms in life
@@BuddyMac69 😂 💯
As a woman it was very hard to watch them talk about how we feel. (Edit I’m not talking about the trans men who have previously lived as women)
How is it hard to watch them talk about how we feel?
@@MissLadyG99 cuz they give off a false narrative of women, their saying how they think women feel as fact… that’s what’s wrong with the people nowadays
Why do women make this all about them?
The 4 people on the left were born and grew up as women…they are technically actual women…
women are more emotional. it's a fact. we are higher in trait neuroticism which means the propensity to feel negative emotions.
The narrative that masculinity is under attack always struck me as self-victimization from people who want to make themselves feel more masculine by comparing themselves to other people. Like how are you gonna bring up Harry Styles and Timothee Chalamet without recognizing David Bowie and Boy George? Just be who you are. If you're masculine, that's great - there's a place for you just like everyone else.
You have some of my favorite people on here! They’re so great.
"It's OK to suffer in silence"
No, it's literally not. There are way too many studies on how that is literally the worst way to deal with trauma. The notion that this is OK and even encouraged is one of the biggest examples of toxic masculinity in our society.
It might be ok but that doesnt mean society is structured that way, i got kneed in the stomach today, worse pain i felt in a while, a bunch of people crowded around me and i just layed there groaning. I had to, and afterwards i felt proud of myself. I didnt cry, i didnt show my weakness. I got up, shaked the other guys hand, and kept playing. I dont want to imagine the social impact of me crying.
Bro, why tf do you have a problem with men crying in silence? we can go through our emotions however we want.
@@jahzealjr6810 that isn't what he said at all
Do you understand what “literally” means?
But then he quotes men commit suicide at higher rates.... 🤔
Conversations like this need to happen more, everywhere. Hearing about others' experiences is the key to empathy.
I agree wholeheartedly. I think some ppl are afraid of this conversation which may be why they barely happen.
@@DanceArchives24 They're scared of what might happen to them if they don't totally submit to the cult of gender ideology.
@@DanceArchives24 Nobody is afraid to talk about this. The trans ideology is practically debunked on a daily basis.
only if it doesn't turn into violence, which it always does.
Only thing I feel empathetic for is the fact they are living in a delusion. What angers me is that fact they are trying to push that delusion on everyone else and if people don't agree then they are a bigot ect ect. It's disgusting that has went on for so long
these trans men should have their own podcast they were so interesting to listen to: their experiences, opinions, and the whole discussions
The best middle ground I've watched so far
I don’t know if this is just me, I think saying women are taking on a more masculine role as in being “independent” is quite offensive. Women have always been independent people but the world didn’t want women to be independent for so long. I feel as if my independence is more of me finding my femininity not me finding the masculine side of me.
Yes.
Amen
I absolutely love this take
Exactly 🙏🏻
Well, he did say it’s ‘associated’ with being masculine. Not that that’s necessarily true.
You can tell that Buck has had experience in both educating other people, and in directing dialog with anti-trans people in a constructive way.
How is that anti Trans? The guy was spitting straight up facts
@@KitchenWitchery and what you think are *NOT* facts, are in reality; *FACTS* !
Absolutely, I learned a lot listening to him speak
@@officialballisticfox8111 there called opinions…
@@officialballisticfox8111 it's called opinion
I really enjoyed listening to these guys!
That well timed Gregg Abbott overlay made me smile 😃
As a biological woman, some of this was extremely difficult and very frustrating to watch...but, I learned quite a bit and it was very interesting.
Same here.
omg me too seriously. It was quite frustrating at times, especially when they did not understand what the others were saying.
One of the hardest parts of the video as a woman was when they were talking about male privilege and how men don't have it. These men never had to call a friend when they're walking late at night, never had to worry about someone following them in the subways, etc. I do understand that women have privileges in other areas such as custody battles, etc. but in my experience, men have more privilege when it comes to safety and respect.
@@aglioeoilo Fr fr. Being unable to leave Ukraine for the men ages 18-60 is a great privilege huh?
@@aglioeoilo no ones invalidating that. What they’re explaining is everyone has their own privilege but you’re solely picking out make privilege and portraying it is were better
I’m actually surprised at how well articulated this conversation was and how respectful both sides were. Thank you all for just being nice, respectful human beings
This is how men communicate with each other
Remember, this is an edited video.
@@truthseeker73able Conservatives are not people and therefore cannot be men
Yeah, throw the purple haired trans supporters that go to rallys in here and its a yelling match. These are reasonable people
@@truthseeker73able Stated like someone with deep insecurities.
this has been one of the better talks they actualy found middleground and had respect for each other.
Can we please have a video between lesbians and gay men? I think there’s a really important conversation to be had there about femininity and masculinity in terms of gender roles, social perceptions and sexism that is still very rife and real in the LGBT+ community.
I think bi people would also be interesting
@@Andyatl2002 bi would just be normal conversations between people lol
Can we get the lesbians and gay men to wrestle?
please!!
@Chase R what do you mean by that 🤨
Suffering in silence is the worst thing you can do to yourself and this is something men have lived with as this unspoken rule and look at where it leads.
it's not bad if you can and want to deal with your problems, you just have to know if you need someones help.
@@boguszmakowski2357 knowing when you need help and asking for help are 2 very different things.
suffering in silence is when you know you need help but dont ask.
@@7svn. i sometimes did and it was better like that, i dont like to share my emotions and some people don't like it as well
Suffering in silence and getting through it makes you become very very strong and independent and you can survive alone but staying alone or if you don’t get through it which is likely you will break and or be unhappy. I got numb to a degree of feeling to a degree and I’m wondering from time to time if I even live. It derived from trust issues and maybe it’s how I developed. It’s not that I like being alone it’s that I have yet to meet someone
Its because of toxic masculinity.
amazing, great and insightful points from both sides
33:45 That is so real. So powerful. As a gay teen boy with gender dysphoria I am not allowed to express myself in my own house. So yes, I do desire others to "validate" me or at least acknowledge me as being myself. I don't get that at home.
This is so hard to watch as a woman, there are such general statements that they view as factual about womens perceptions and feelings just isn’t true? There’s just SO MUCH projected feelings. If I took a shot every time I cringed, I’d be dead.
Facts from both sides too
The trans side are talking about THEIR perspective of being a woman. Not how it is to be a woman.
@MrCrowley1018 ? What’s your point?
Watch an episode of Survival: Men vs Women and you will know what they're talking about
I'm seriously convinced just right off the bat that most if not all of those conservative "men" don't view the trans men as anything other than manly women and if there's anything they've made very clear throughout their comments it's that they look down on and most certainly don't respect women. It's infuriating to have to listen to.
i find it so funny that they're talking about catcalling/public attacks as a basis of who's stronger or gets preyed on or whatever. but nobody ever asked, who, overwhelmingly, are the ones doing the attacking?
Black men
@@sethputnamjr what is wrong with you
Domestic abuse statistics between males and females are pretty much bang on 50/50
@@fractale4322well no duh because that domestic it almost always affect both sides.
@@rima.mv2147 women tend to start the physical fight it’s kinda messed up when u consider the fact that lesbian relationships on average have disproportionate high rate of domestic violence against each other
I love how Buck kept nodding his head to some of the opposing side points. All around, this was a civil discussion and I’m glad that there were no arguments being had.
I just came here to say.
Nice beard Buck.
i love the fact that this was supposed to be a conversation about individual masculinity and it actually just turned into men speaking on their perceived issues of women
Half the panel are women who have NO idea what it is to be men
Ah yes classic female moment, you didn't understand a single word that was spoken during this video lmao
That's the issues yall say tho?
Wait... They said gender is fluid and disconnected from biology, so how then, is there male privilege? It's incoherent
Says a woman
Suffering in silence is NEVER the answer.
@Gavin Reed just because it's the innate response doesn't mean it's the right one.
@Gavin Reed high suicide rate =/= evolutionarily effective
Men have to be extremely careful who we open up to though. You can't just open up to anybody.
@Gavin Reed Effective as In feeding into toxic masculinity and creating a lot of toxic society norms ?? Cause if it’s that way then yes 100%agree. The way you guys use “evolutionary effective” as if the evolution we’re in now is perfect will always amaze me 😃As if that’s the reason society has been successful ..like we’re successful now because of those traits ,when in fact that’s actually the very reason it’s depleting.
@Skibi yeah but that’s everyone. Everyone should be extremely careful who they open up to lol.
Bring this verson of middle ground back.
Brandon was such a lead in this video. Staying civil and looking at both sides. Absolute respect
If you're ever in an argument with someone that goes crazy as soon as you mention they may have privilege replace the word with advantage. Got this concept through to a lot of people by using the disadvantage and advantage concept.
I think for me it’a the whole “men have it better than women” thing that’s shoved in our faces in every piece of media. It’s simply just untrue and divisive given the many advantages and disadvantages we both have.
Cool idea, thanks for sharing!
When having a conversation about privilege the word “advantage” will always come up anyway.
@@mogensgallardo3288 I would disagree. There’s plenty of advantages women have over men and Vice versa. The obvious one is even now in Ukraine they won’t allow any males 13 to 60 years old to leave in order to fight. Not only is that alway something men are always expected to do for war but in daily life. You’re a coward if you don’t confront physical confrontation to protect yourself or others. Not saying I disagree with it but it is what it is. Of course there is the men lose custody 90% of the time along with that women are always granted doubt of mischievous or irresponsible behavior. Women are incarcerated for shorter times for similar crimes. And on top of that women use sex appeal to their advantage a lot, so much that sometimes it’s a career (only fans). And this is just a few things.
@@theviking8513 Men have it WAY better than women. Stop it.
"suffering in silence" is NOT healthy.
Say's who
@@happydimsum8221 multiple therapists and psychologists
@@happydimsum8221 is that a real question
Agreed speaking from experience
Agreed. Men, women, trans, non-binary. Everyone has feelings and should be able to express themselves accordingly.
"My wife has privilege, because she has me. So she doesn't have to worry about her safety because I'm there." Well that's one way to admit that you have privilege- without realizing it at all.
You really came to that conclusion from that statement? 😂 wtf. He’s saying she has the privilege of having a hard working protector and provider so she can focus on other things lmao. It is a privilege.
@@albuquerquehotspot7835The mans the privilege interesting
@@albuquerquehotspot7835Fr these feminists will always find a way to push their delusional narrative that women are victimized lmao
because men are protectors! he said that very well
@@rootgonewild330 Are they?
Love Brandon ! Love his videos !
The fact that Brandon truly thinks an inherent female quality is laying on the floor crying is insane to me
The fact that those buying into this incoherent narrative are conflating the variability in personality traits and temperament (neither of which is gender exclusive hence effeminate males, butch females and tomboys) w/ gender is insane to me
@@zachman5150 What is the incoherent narrative you're referring to?
@@zachman5150 you know damn well you dont speak like that in real life. stop tryna sound like an intellectual, you look silly
@@yakult9618 That wasn't much a a refutation. The problem you have with your virtue signaling is, the total absence of any actual 'virtue' in any of your unhinged whinging.
Besides, "It's usually futile to talk Facts and Analysis to people [like you] who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority, in their ignorance".-- T. Sowell
And I think you just provided another example for validation.
Please dismiss yourself, or up your game considerably, before attempting to reply with another Arctic room temperature IQ rant
But you do see women being more emotional and crying in different places lol I would cry on the floor it's not a bad thing it's just part of being emotional
Please don't ever just 'suffer in silence', men, women, or any one in between. Its ok to share your emotions with other people, it doesn't make you weak, I think it actually makes you stronger to be able to open yourself up to other people.
Cap cap cap this is a trap dont do it men ^
Loser mindset from Abigail
@@Madyro trust me we not. Nobody really cares.
@@Madyro So if someone is having suicidal thoughts they shouldn't get help? (By your logic of course).
@@warm_lettuce473 you r putting words in my mouth never said that goofie
Jacob had one of the best points on the panel - granted results will vary but instilling pride and confidence in young LGBT kids and toughing them up to the world’s criticism is a a huge factor - for every child!!! But especially for the ones who want to express theirselves in that manner.. the world is harsh to everyone. It’s life, you can’t change the way the world operates
Im surprised by how mutually respectful the convo was. This to be said, Buck and Brandon were the most interesting to listen to. Brandon positively surprised me, being a Christian with his own set of beliefs, yet so open to the experiences and feeling of the trans men in this conversation. Also, his monologue about disagreeing yet loving each other? As a daughter of intensely conservative, combative and often inconsiderate of other people father, its something that I would take for myself to remember, when dealing with him.
When he said “You’re appropriating the gender.” I nearly choked. I can’t believe he actually said that.
It’s true
Edit: I'm gonna make this comment to better explain what I was trying to say. Appropriation isn't always in a negative connotation. The phrase "cultural appropriation" has a more negative connotation to it. Now, just regular "appropriation" means to take an idea or construct and start believing in or using said belief or construct. The whole point of gender transition is to appropriate a gender. That's not inherently a bad thing. Now, while I don't understand transgender people's gender dysphoria, I choose to respect them anyways. 👍
@@tokuko9027 this is more like it: the act of taking something such as an idea, custom, or style from a group or culture that you are not a member of and using it yourself
@@tokuko9027 Don't reconstruct common terms. Just like anyone can be racist.
@@tokuko9027 they are appropriating, masculine men are a minority. It's rare to see a masculine men. Not rare to see weak men though.
Weak men try to pretend they are men to disparage us talking about toxic masculinity and all.