Shadow & Bone: The Return of YA Fantasy
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- I'm Grisha, you're Grisha, everyone is Grisha.
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Timestamps
0:00 - Intro
1:01 - Synopsis
2:12 - The Adaptation Problem
9:51 - Alina Starkov
19:48 - General Kirigan
24:19 - Mal
27:49 - Other Characters
34:45 - Editing & Season Finale
38:09 - Conclusion
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Shadow and Bone
Netflix
Ben Barnes
Alina Starkov
Mal
The Six Crows
Jessie Mei Li
Ravka
The Fold
Archie Renaux
Jesper
Kaz Brekker
Inej Ghafa
General Kirigan
Sun Summoner - Zábava
"he's here and he's doing things but i don't know why"
the literal first line of six of crows: _kaz brekker didn't need a reason_
Technically, the first line is "Joost had two problems. The moon and his moustache" lol. Shoutout to the confusing first chapter everyone ignores after the first time.
But then Inej corrects it
HAHAHAHAHA
@@rakshyakharel9398 My second reread of that book was extremely confusing lol. I thought I got a knockoff copy at first because I had completely forgotten about it
It seams this guy wasn't paying attention, because it's very clear that Kaz doing his thing to get back at Rolins. At this point it's a mistery why Kaz hates him so much, but still, his motivation is pretty clear.
I’m so happy we all collectively decided to ignore whatever the hell the Fate of the Winx was lmaoooo
right? I watched it and now it's like it never existed in my life. Sadly forgettable.
Let. It. Die. And burn!
@your coochie is bushy I hated the hell out of it. lol. Worst sort of modern fantasy tropes: magic boarding school? AGAIN? making teenager cattiness even more unappealing in contrived combative situations that are not interesting, inspiring, or even slightly cool? individualized fairy abilities like some cheap X-men knockoff? Ugh
The biggest problem with the modern fairies trope is the utter disregard of the sheer power and awesomeness of the actual fairytale legends in folklore. How many times have we already seen these stupid portrayals of "The Fae" already? from Shadowhunters to True Blood to Carnival Row?
No, I want the Fair Folk of old. Give me Balor of the Evil Eye, who lays waste to entire lands, burning all to ash and filling the earth with poison with just his gaze. Give me Nuada Silverhand, who wielded Claíomh Solais, the Sword of Light, from which no enemy can escape. Give me Enbarr, the magical horse of the Sidhe, who can gallop over the waves of the sea. I want to see the Gwragedd Annwn, lake maidens whose beauty bewitch mortals, and I want to see Redcaps beheading trespassers and painting their heads red with the blood of their victims. I want to see Gwynn ap Nudd, King of Annwfyn, taking his hounds out on the Wild Hunt, riding across the sky towards Cadair Idris.
The only show where I liked the portrayal of a fairy was American Gods, with the character of Sweeney.
@your coochie is bushy may I ask what you like about it? Not being shady, just genuinely wondering.
For the most part, a big criticism is that it's so different from the original story that it's barely an adaptation. So, did you grow up watching Winx Club or did you go into Fate as a new fan?
Unfortunately a greater number collectively enabled a season 2. XP
most YA novels adaptations seem to fall victim to “everyone like literally EVERYONE is more interesting than the protagonist” lmaooo
Yeah, like what the fuck, is there even any YA where the main protagonist is the most interesting person?
@@rimurutempest4945 Jude Duarte from cruel prince 🥰🥰
@@amarhassan3620 debatable :))
I think they deliberately make them have no personality so that the reader can project their own personality on to them. Twilight being the perfect example of this.
@@myfaaaavevideos Yeah, they do that in movies too, which is why the main character is usually the blandest, Luke and Neo are best examples for this. Like, they’re great protagonists, but they’re the least interesting out of the cast.
The one thing that I found to be a change from the usual YA narrative was the fact that the darkling WAS ACTUALLY A BAD PERSON AND THE VILLAN. I think my brain is so trained to be like "Oh, the author just wants him to be misunderstood even though this character is a horrid excuse for a human being," but this time it was actually followed though with. The books did a much better job at explain how the darkling was a manipulative person, but I watched the show before I read the books and though it was actually funny when his mom told Alina that she's really dumb for falling for the sad-boy act.
I know this is why he is one of my fave YA villains because he does not have a redemption arc. yes, he has reasons for why he is doing what he is doing but he is a bad person at his core. He is not redeemable and Leigh made him that way on purpose. He is a cautionary tale to young girls about handsome older men He manipulates others to get what he wants with no care or thought to their well-being. He does not care about Zoya or his mother and he is definitely not in love with Alina.
@@katharineobrien5890 oh boy do i have news for you regarding S&B2 with all the chaotic arcs Darkling got
‘Doesn’t know what Kaz’s motivations are’ it’s money. It always will be money ;)
Brick by brick baby
Money and inej I suppose lmao
Money but also revenge and maybe inej
Or revenge~ but I don't think non readers will pick up on this motivation on the first season
Not money, revenge, always. Money is just one of the needs in order to get revenge.
okay but alina the chosen one waking up every day thinking " I don't wanna save the world screw that I miss my childhood bestie" is so funny to me
much more realistic chosen one than most series/movies show
@cactus exactly! It's so annoying when she does that
not everyone is as perfect as you 🙄
@cactus i think she just doesn't care that much. i mean she does, but coming from a girl that got her cartography unit killed and forgot about them and then suddenly thought for half a season "i need mal". sis mostly cares about herself mostly.
RIGHT! She has powers that could save countless lives, but instead she can only feel arsed about herself. I kept expecting her to be like hmm I have always felt vulnerable and helpess in my life, but now I can do something for once. Protect people etc. But nah🤣 It's only about her and Mal.
Listen, if you think the show was super obvious about who the villain is, the character is literally referred to as The Darkling the first time he’s mentioned in the book. Book readers were literally like, “Gee…. Wonder who the villain is.”
Tbh, not really! We knew general krigin was upto no good. The only part that we didn't know was his other name the Darkling. We taught they were two different people but somehow linked.
I don't think he was ever really a secret villain, like we all knew he was shady the whole time
@@MaddiKathleen yeah but we didn't know he was the Darkling. I knew cos for me it was very obvious but for some people it was a mystery.
@@fidato_ I know but it was so obvious that it feels weird calling a him a secret villain because it just wasn't secret
@@MaddiKathleen yes, agreed. But this was a YA book targeted to a younger audience. They assumed general kirigin to be a F boy. But he was more than just a bad boy that Alina was falling for, he was the Darkling himself.
I am sure it was pretty shocking to most teenagers who haven't seen or read more complex stories since they are so young.
For people like me, it was obvious cos i have seen these type of storylines before.
As someone who never read any of the books, I was able to keep up with the show completely. I just figured things I had questions about would be answered in the next season. But even so, there were still context clues to figure it out myself so it never annoyed me.
Same. And I much prefer having questions about a complex world, rather than being annoyed by an oversimplified one. (Cough Panem).
Agreed.
Also, him being really confused about how Zlatan wanting to keep the fold around because he wanted to secede is ... are you sure you were paying attention, my dude? The Conductor's whole character was about this.
@@elwynbrooks Thank you. I usually like his show analysis, but in this one it feels like he half listened to it because it just wasn't that interested.
same, i thought the adaptation was clearly explained for those who hadnt read the books.
im really upset they cut the scene where alina asks for white robes like genya (because genya is like, the only person genuinely nice to her in the first book) then realizes that the only other people who wear white keftas are the servants of little palace. it's a big character moment for genya and without it it makes the scene in the show where she's finally wearing a red kefta a lot less important.
Also Genya being misstreated by other Grisha's and abused by the king wasn't even properly mentioned and i propably wouldn't catch it if i didn't read the books
@@Jemily As someone who didn't read the books, I thought they made it very clear she was being constantly sexually abused by the king, but it's true I didn't pick up on any negativity coming from other Grisha.
@@XuiLeeEv I guess it differs person to person, i had to explain it to three of my friends, tho one of them caught it slightly. And with the negativity i think there really was nothing to pick up in the show, in the books it's mentioned a lot, that other Grisha's don't like Genya (like in the scene where Alina has to go in front of the king for the first time. In the books Grisha's argue with who Alina should go, when she proposes Genya, the other Grisha's just laugh-in the end she goes next to Kirigan just like in the show)
I'm upset they made Tante Heleen seem so civil and approachable.
Inej just casually sat and made a deal with her wtf? Book Inej would never.
They pretty much cut out everything important and character building for all of the Shadow and Bone characters, not just Genya.😅💔 😿
“How did Daenerys forget about the iron fleet?”
*STILL A TOTALLY VALID QUESTION WE NEED ANSWERED*
D&D: lul she just forgot
@@justrelish1804 daenerys in the previous scene: k so we gotta figure out what to do about the iron fleet
@@carleeelizabeth lmao
Is never too late to drop a GOT video
Time stamp?
Fun fact for people who haven't read the books:
Kaz leaned back. "What's the easiest way to steal a man's wallet?"
"Knife to the throat?" asked Inej.
"Gun to the back?" said Jesper.
"Poison in his cup?" suggested Nina.
"You're all horrible," said Matthias.
is an incorrect quote from Six of Crows, the second (and the best) series in the Grishaverse.
Best quote easily lmao
This comment reminded me that I need to reread SoC immediately
Fairly certain it’s a correct quote
@@luiseveigel849 sorry yeah i worded that weirdly
It's a quote from the books that's often used as an incorrect quote in other fandoms :)
So unrealistic, Kaz can already do magic tricks lol
I actually liked The Crows much more than the main storyline. There were many scenes that showed that Kaz is smart: when he noticed that one of the women in the casino was a refugee from East Ravka by the way she was counting banknotes, the way they stole the blueprints, how Kaz realised that there is a fake Alina at the party because he saw the second black kefta, etc. ...The main storyline suffers a lot from the constant pining of Alina and Mal for each other. Alina inadvertently gets some of her friends killed because she wants to go on a mission that Mal is being assigned to. Then it turns out that she was suppressing her powers so she could be with Mal. Even after she learns what her powers are, she continues suppressing them because she is pining for Mal. Then they find the stag which she gives up to protect Mal. In the last episode during the big Volcra attack she is like "Maaaaaal!". And I am like "Lady, the fate of the world rests upon your shoulders...Mal is not that important right now!!!"
Also, Zoya. I have to admit, I really liked her because she works as a great foil to Genya and Alina. While Alina's main motivation is love and Genya has this disturbingly undying loyalty to the Darkling, once Zoya realises that the Darkling turned her family into Volcra, she is like "Well, this is where I draw the line and he can go and f*ck himself." Good for you, Zoya!
On a different topic: I like your videos, man, but as other people have pointed out, at times it kind of feels like you have not been paying attention. Some of the character motivations have been explained, multiple times even. Hell, Kaz even has a scene when he asks what Jesper, Inej and the Conductor would do with all the money they would make from the mission. Kaz, amongst other things, wants to free Inej from slavery, because she is a useful employee, also he possibly has romantic feelings for her.
The Crows are like a fantasy Peaky Blinders gang and for that reason, I loved them. I haven't read the books, btw.
Fully agreed here. I've read the "Shadow and Bone" trilogy several years ago, but after three (!) series, I ran to buy the "Six of Crows" books in a day. Their line is naive, but entertaining, and even the editing, which the Ninja have underlined, represents the Barrel world they inhabit really good. Love them too now, Kaz Brekker, my man!
@@anastasiad.2489 I watched the 2nd season too and I am still more interested in the Crows storyline. The actor who plays Kaz had some great moments.
@@user-qj9en1kp1m thank you for your answer, it's been a year, so I did not expect you to come back! Totally agreed about the Crows line, it's actually still better that the Shadow & Bones one. You've painted a picture on your comment, so I can't add a word here, I have the same opinion. As for Kaz, he's become my favorite in the books, but not in the series. The actor is good, but as for me, he is not THE Kaz here. But this character is a walking literary trope of an angsty super smart Sherlock-based antihero, so I think no one actually could manage to impersonate him perfectly. But Jesper in the show on contrary 've attracted me so much, I can't describe it. The actor is so awesome, that I do believe he IS Jesper.
@@anastasiad.2489 I love Jasper! He is really cute, his flashback/drug fuel moment with his mom was beautiful. Kaz reminds me of Tommy Shelby from the Peaky Blinders, wheels within wheels, with intricate plans that could backfire. How does he compare to his book counterpart? I hope he is not ruined, because I think he is my favourite character in the show.
Honestly, as someone who hasn't read any of the books and went in to the show completely blind, I have to say I enjoyed the crows storyline the most. Every time they would cut to Alina and the little palace I would be like "No, not this boring stuff. Go back to the ninja trio, it was getting good!" So I'm sad you didn't enjoy that part. But oh well, to each their own.
I literally thought the same!
Same here! I literally hated Alina/Mal's plotline so much and while the Crows didn't really do much (I'm reading the books now and they do a LOT more in there) they were still fun to watch.
Me too, everytime they would cut to Alina i wad like who cares give me tohe good stuff, compared to the crows Alina and Mal come off as bland and boring
As someone who read the books and hated the ones about Alina and company and adored the ones about Kaz and company, I'm so happy that you liked them^^ I really hope they get to adapt in the show their storyline so you can see them in all their glory. (Ninja trio lol)
Ninja trio has to be the best description of them I’ve ever seen
I think that the problem with Kaz beside not beeing originaly in shadow and bone is that most of his personality and character development comes from his internal monologue, so in the screen looks like someone without feelings, the thing that he actually wants the people yo think.
yeah. there are characters that work better in books if they aren't given proper dialogue in the show
Fr. kaz’s dialogue in the book is pretty slim. it’s mostly him planning and explaining things. he rarely voices emotions.
@@nophia5938 exactly. But we love him sm more bc of his inner psychological workings than anything else
Yeah its the same thing with katniss everdeen. While she comes of on the screen as bland, the book reader knows that she puts herself together, too show little emotion as possible to not look weak.
@De Nilei agree freddy is awesome! personally i have only read the 1st book in the six of crows duology but already the character is so well established and awesome. Definitely read it! It was even a bit shocking for me
I mean, the show didn't explain everything, but a bunch of your questions were actually answered. The assassination plot was built up the entire season for example - the Conductor literally tried the same thing a few episodes before.
Also, the fold creatures couldn't leave the fold. and he doesn't control them. these are new creatures he can control! thats why the last shot of them leaving was important. they tried to leave him there to die and he got stronger.
They are shadow creatures that he creates . That's an indispensable part of the other two books
I feel like the editing team ran out of material when they wanted to convey Alina's and Mal's "friendship" and just used the same shot of them running to that field as children over and over and over .... and I got tired of that very quickly.
Same
Yep
And it was never just a quick flashback to that. It always seemed to take 10+ seconds. OK I GET IT THEY'RE FRIENDS AND THEY LOVE EACH OTHER YOU DONT NEED TO REMIND ME OF THAT EVERY OTHER MINUTE. It was cool the first 3 times after that I was done with that scene.
It was so annoying, my god
To be fair in the boons alina thinks about hiding in the fields with mal also like 10 times a day
You forgot the REPEATED childhood flashbacks where mal & alina hide under the paddy. I thought it appeared too much in the early episodes.
their relationship seems forced and unrealistic
@@lulu_Lm Right?! The flashbacks did not help at all. I want to ship them so much (since it’s kinda obvious the show want us to see they have deep connection), but I find her & kirigan have more chemistry...
@@PriskaVeriani true! I enjoy Mals character a lot, but their romance I don't buy it, I like the idea of them being like family more so. Maybe the actors just don't have that chemistry I dono.
It's just boring honestly like u have to be a cupcake if you ship them
He didn’t forget he said it 😗
I'd say Alina did have a reason to no listen to the powerful witch. She just discovered the guy she's making out with is the bad guy and feels betrayed. She also just learnt the powerful witch is the bad guy's mom. So I think she did not listen to her because she did not trust her (or anyone inside that Castle).
yes, i think he wasn't paying attention
That was my thought process, she wasn't sure who she could trust so she went with the option she thought was right
I'm very confused how you didn't know why the general wanted to kill Alina. It was said like 3 or 4 times that the country of Ravka might split because the general is getting a rebellion together. The fold is dividing the middle of Ravka. The Darkling has like 2 or 3 conversations with Alina about it. It's why The Conductor tried to kill Alina (he had talked to the general first). And no, I haven't read the books.
I also don't get how Kaz's motivations are unclear. He takes a job that will make him a lot of money. Enough money to get revenge on that guy who's name I can't be arsed to remember. We don't know why he wants revenge on that guy.. But early on in the season, Kaz asked the guy if he remembers Kaz, and the dude doesn't.
All of this is very clear to me and it's been over a month since I watched the show.
I’m coming in really late but he wants revenge because the dude scammed his brother when he was a kid (their parents were dead), which left them homeless and with no money when he was a kid. This situation eventually led to his brother’s death and him turning into the life of crime. Kaz asked if he recognized him because they met when he was a kid because his brother would take him to his house when they were doing business before he scammed them and took of with his money. This is also the reason why he always wears gloves, he has to touch he’s brothers cadaver and that traumatized him and every time he touches anything he feels like it’s his brother’s body. This is also why he “has no feelings” and that stuff, he’s just always expecting the worst from everyone.
@@elizabethfernandez7145 Thanks for the info!
@@elizabethfernandez7145 This is… a very big spoiler. The book intentionally doesn’t reveal this until very late on and even then only in bits and pieces, so I feel like just spilling it all like this takes away a lot of any future shock of the awful things he went through.
The show makes kaz motivations very unclear. From just looking at his parts in the show we only get surface level explanations for him that only relate to the story being told which that he was hired to kidnapp Alina. The show sets that kaz dosent like Pekka Rollins its just not explained why. Which is a good Easter egg for people who read the books but just scene as bad writing to others.
@@selenamcmahan9234 Reads to me like stuff to be explored later. That it's a mystery we'll get info on in the future. The audience doesn't need to know everything all the time. And, the fact that they brought up the revenge and didn't say why actually lends to the idea that it's being held back on purpose.
Again, it was perfectly clear to me that he took a job for money and that he wanted money to become top dog and get revenge on Pekka.
It's now been at least a year since I wrote my initial comment and it's still perfectly clear in my brain.
The show runner said his goal for the show was to make a very expensive ad for Leigh Bardugo’s books. Considering no one can have a discussion about the show without bringing up the books I’d say it worked!
Yea! The sales have gone up a lot since the show
I started the books after the show so he was right on that one. 😂😂
I literally finished the series thinking I needed to read the books so I’d say they did a good job on that.
I bought all 3 after watching the show because I wanted a better understanding of the story and felt Netflix would cancel the show anyway. So great marketing on their end, I’m invested.
Yeah, started the first book because I didn't understood shit
As someone who read all the books, the crows were the absolute highlight of the show. Their inclusion made the show so much better, but it can feel glued on, because they were not in the original grisha trilogy, they have their own story (and a popular opinion is that their story is better than Alina's). My problem with the show was that it was so short, it had a lot of story and lore to explain and no time for that. A lot of the world was lost and emotional scenes didn't leave the same impact it would have if they had time to develop. Overall I loved it, but I can see that it's because I was already familiar with the story.
Might also just be personal preference, I haven't read the books yet and I loved the Crows they were my favourite characters as well!
I so totally agree! The crows were my favorite as well - i started then stopped reading the book after the show bc the YA cringey cliches are so much worse in the book then the tv series (think poor clumsy pale boring ass whiney protagonist is in love with men that are assholes to her- bc sexy? ) and then i saw the crows were not in it - held on reading hoping they’d show up - so lost all interest in continuing the other books- which is unfortunate bc the lore seems solid- but at least the Crows are in another book so I’ll give that a try
I loved it too, but I didn't read the books (I will now). I disagree with a lot of what was said in the video
@@ambergerhamburger definitely try reading Six of Crows, they shine there, honestly we didn't get to see that much of them in the show, or get to know them. SoC has a very different vibe to SaB so there's a good chance you'll like them
I haven't read the books, just finished the series, and the crows are AMAZING. They get way better writing, the actors are better, and it's not the cookie cutter cheesy romance that gets shoved into every YA piece. Growing up reading too many badly written YA books, I'm tired of female protagonists NEEDING a love interest, and the whole plot revolving around her ✨feelings✨. Yes, Inez is queen.
Edit: Inez? Inej? Idk I didn't get English subtitles.
Personally, for some reason, I actually liked the initial confusion of not knowing exactly what was going on at first but gradually either deducing what was going on in a scene via context, or receiving the information about the situation from the characters. For some reason, to me, it made the story and the world feel more real? Because why would characters waste their time explaining the world to other characters who also in the same world? Rather, the world is shown, not told, through the adventure. I feel like it's a bit unfair to expect a fantasy series especially, to just spill all its beans right from the get go. I think the intrigue lies in the mystery of not knowing what these words mean or what these object do, and watching on to have your questions answered. And as the show goes on, we do get some answers and the wide world of this fantasy gradually opens up more and more with each episode. For example, I really love how they presented The Fold to viewers. In the beginning, it's just this frightening mass of darkness filled with vile creatures that somehow suddenly appeared a very long time ago. And this mysterious mass has implications for trade, travel, and politics. And as the show goes on we learn more and more about The Fold until it culminates in the end of season one, where we now not only know where The Fold came from and who made it, but that the main villain is going to use it to his advantage in the next season.
But I get your point that it is frustrating sitting through 40 minutes of action and not knowing why it's particularly important to the plot until the very end (or unless you've read the books).
It’s also worth noting it brings us closer to how Alina is feeling. She doesn’t know anything about Grisha power or the inner politics of Os Alta before getting into the Little Palace; she operates on very limited information for most of the first book. It puts us into the protagonist’s shoes instead of the narrator’s, which in my opinion is much stronger storytelling. It’s also a bit unrealistic to expect to just know everything about the world in the 1st season like that, when this is a Fantasy show. I’ve read no good fantasy books where the mystery and curiosity element wasn’t explored and I don’t foresee that happening either. We don’t get told that much about the world/Magic system in the first Shadow and Bone book either, so I think it’s in keeping with the source-material.
@@happyjellycatsquid Thank you for expanding on my initial points! Especially adding more information about the books (I haven't read them).
@@kurmyshaharris7367 I’ve been putting off reading the next ones for MONTHS, still have to write a Goodreads review about the first one but they’re just so boring 🥲 Do no recommend you waste your time with them unless you’re pretty obsessed with YA
@@happyjellycatsquid lmao thanks for the heads up
You make some good points but it really does feel like you also didn't pay much attention or were being deliberately obtuse at times. For example, West Ravkan separatism doesn't just come up in the finale. It's mentioned early on, it's the main reason why the Tsar and Aleksander (on the surface at least) want the Fold to go down, it's why the "train guy" was hired by the separatist general to kill Alina. The Fold protects West Ravkan independence, without it it all goes away. Also isn't it obvious why a Sun Summoner is needed to take down the Fold? Light dispels darkness, simple as that. Yes, it's a basic fantasy trope but it shouldn't cause so much confusion. I haven't read the books btw.
I felt exactly the same when watching this video today. And gotta say, it kinda of bothered me that he made a point of making a comment agreeing with him more visible, and only liked comments completely validating his opinion. Somehow, it made me feel like he really doesn't care to hear other contrasting opinions and truly believes his criticism makes total sense. When in truth in some aspects it really doesn't, and really seems that it comes from a lack of attention when watching the show. Anyway, I've loved most of his videos. This one just didn't made sense to me.
@@JOANAS30 it felt like he was criticising it just to criticise it
also the nost hilarious thing is that he explained this by saying in Harry Potter we dont know that lupin and whats her face were parents. and he says it was never mentioned when in fact it was mentioned!!
lol, the moment shadow and bone starts being interesting, I'll start paying attention. I literally couldn't even finish it, I was so bored. Honestly I think he went really light on the main character in this, I found her aggressively awful, and the fact that the show really wanted you to think she was amazing was incredibly grating. Also, the show presents all these wizards as being super awesome and amazing, but every time you see them fight, you wonder why. Like no one in the show is better at fighting than someone just shooting a gun, and half the time their abilities take so much longer to pop off. Just very silly and uninspired.
lol honestly i kinda have to agree, this is the only video of his i have passionately disagreed with on almost everything 💀
i hope they give kaz what he deserves in the next seasons, cause freddy was amazing in that role and his character is very interesting and complex (and the crows too)
This is weird but Kaz is the thing I liked most in the series. Maybe that says smthng about how much I disliked the series as a whole, lol. But I actually finally ordered Six of Crows after having it recommended to me for years, because of Kaz.
@@whydidyoutubeputmynameherefml i'm glad you liked him. and six of crows is one of my favourite books, mainly because of the characters, i hope you have a good time reading it!
@@whydidyoutubeputmynameherefml I hope you love the Six of Crows duology! The characters really make the series. I'm not fond of the Shadow and Bone trilogy personally BECAUSE of the characters, but the Six of Crows characters and their dynamic is one of my favorites in any book/show I've watched.
Madam Hootch was in ONE HP movie, and she will forever be known as Madam Hootch
I KNEW I KNEW THAT ACTRESS FROM SOMEWHERE
@@emilylemas8070 SAMEEE I hate I didn't recognize her cuz I'm a pretty big Harry Potter fan
xD. All the adult actors (and several kids too, obvi) were so entertaining to watch in HP ... it really felt that they were just enjoying themselves, yk?
Actually, I know her from the Agatha Christie shows.
She was only in one, note more?????? Oh my god she really nailed that role
As someone who doesn’t really enjoy reading YA, I can say that the Six of Crows duology really shocked me by how entertaining it was to read.
Its funny how you call Alina bland in the series while every book reader was like "omg alina has so much personality in the series"
bruh I think Alina is sooooo boring in the books. They pretty much summed up her character well in the show lmao... her whole character in the books is just moping about Mal
@@paigetaylor5919 100% agreed
Book readers think she is boring (she was) because the books are written from a single pov, hers. She always complain about everything and anything, she doesn't make her choices but rather they are made for her by others and the plot. But, if you do a second watch to the series, she is not well-written either.
Jesper's gun spinning makes sense because he has ADHD and he's fidgety
That could have been explained on one line of dialogue.
@@gabrielleduplessis7388 but I feel it doesn't need to be explained. You see him fidgeting a lot in the show. So it's not out of character. Hence no need for an explanation.
does the book actually say that...
Coolio yeah, it’s explained when they talk about how not using your grisha ability hinders your general well-being
@@gwenethp511 i think most people would have dismissed that. Nobody can link a little fidgeting with ADHD
it's sad because kaz and inej are incredibly interesting characters that were not developed (i think they have a book of their own?) still love them they like each other its so cute
Yeah... this was kind of a prequel for their characters, and if we get season two we’ll get to see their full story 😊💖
true, the depth to inej and kaz is insane, their characters have so many layers
Indeed, I'm interested now, I wanna see how the show screwed up as a lot of shows do when adapting books, for example in the books of GoT the story seems to be getting REALLY crazy, that is if the books ever come out
In this show they created a prequel for them, im pretty sure that if they decide to do an spin off for Six of Crows, the characters will have a lot more of character development, because most of that happens in that duology.
Yeah. I think the underdeveloment feel is because we are never really shown Kaz's backstory which is really important and almost defines him as a person, is his greatest motivator and also really big part of his relationship with Inej. I understand they did not have time for it in this season and they didn't want to just brush through it in few lines of dialogue, because that wouldn't really make sense since Kaz isn't very sharing person and not even Inej knows the full story. So they would probably have to make long flashback sequence like they did with the Darkling and they just didnt have the time for that. So the only thing we get are few hints who basically only book readers notice and understand - like Jesper implying that Kaz is driven by revenge in the last episode or Kaz asking Pekka Rollins if they ever made a deal before. That is also the reason why Pekka Rollins feels so out of place and like he doesn't matter in the story.
"When she's told bt Madam Hooch" - I KNEW SHE LOOKED FAMILIAR BUT COULDN'T REMEMBER FROM WHERE!
Thanks for this! Lol
bro me too!
I love how everyone talks about how great the Crows and Kaz/Inej/Jesper actually are and the show in an attempt to create a pre-story for them left them very underdeveloped but I wanna say the same thing about Nina and Matthias. Their story is actually very heartbreaking, so much more subtle and so much more hard-hitting in the context of Six of Crows/Crooked Kingdom. And as individuals, too, they are more interesting. Skip the Shadow and Bone bullshit and read the SOC duology for sure, the characters and their dynamics make that story. Kaz/Inej, Kaz/Jesper, Jesper/Wylan, Nina/Matthias etc. all are very complex dynamics that work within the story and shape those characters.
Not a fan of Matthias/Nina in the books but the show adapted their whole backstory pretty 1:1 and to me, it was as disappointing as in the books. Sure their relationship gets developed a little more in the SOC duology but that doesn't change their imo weak backstory.
THISSSSS. The Six of Crows duology is the best part of the grishaverse to me.
I think the crows only appear for fan service because their story haven’t technically started since Shadow and Bone takes place before Six of Crows
Probably also for the diversity of the show
maybe, but as a fan of the crows i thank the writers for the service
bro I didn't realize this show was from the same universe as that one enemies-to-lovers series everyone on Instagram recommends. mind blown
I probably wouldn't have watched it if it didn't have the crows. I didn't like the S&B series (I still read the whole trilogy because I felt obligated to though). But every time I saw the crows I felt elated and giddy because they're some of my all time favorite characters.
I actually thought that Kaz, Inej and Jesper were the most entertaining parts of the show, the Alina plotline was more boring than the Crow's plotline for me. I actually thought that the Alina plot line bored the shit out of me and when the Crow's came on screen they kept me watching.
The exact same with me! I’ve been sitting there watching Alina’s story and been dying to just forward the show to the Crows 😭 I ended up giving up the show as the main story wasn’t pulling me in and the Crows were the only thing that was interesting to me
I felt the exact opposite! I really liked the main storyline, but the whole heist thing was so boring to me like “Who are you and why don’t I care about you?”. It wasn’t to the point of actually impacting my watching experience negatively, but I did spend most of the Crows’ screen time on my phone when I rewatched the show 🥲
SAME. Kaz, Inej and Jesper were literally the best parts of the show.
as someone obsessed w six of crows, i think we loved the crows scenes exponentially more than the alina and co scenes because ppl who have read the books agree the six of crows and crooked kingdom books are way more compelling in terms of writing and depth of characters than the shadow and bone books. But I think Alina & Co got far more screen time than the crows so they weren't that developped, plus since the show didn't cover the actual six of crows plot then we didn't really get any significant information into who the crows are. For the book readers like us, we don't need information, we had the multiperspective knowledge of the books that told us literally everything ab character motivations chapter by chapter. I imagine the people who have not read the books may not have shared the same excitement over the crows because like, why would they have, they haven't experienced how incredible the books are
Him calling kaz bland and uninteresting hurt me to my core as a six of crows fan 🥲 kaz is my *favorite*
Havent seen shadow and bone tho, so I dont know if they did kaz justice :"D
the funniest thing about the show was that novels, it takes THREE WHOLE BOOKS for the darkling to reveal his name. in the show, he just casually announces it.
I couldn’t make it through the Shadow and Bone books BUT the guy you didn’t know, Kaz Brecker, is a character of Six of Crows which is the best duology, character and plot wise, I’ve read. It was hard to believe both stories came from the same author. I wish we just got a Six of Crows series
As a book reader i wish the show was longer in order to explain how the grisha and 1st army works because I've had to explain to my friends what the show was about. I heard they had to make cuts because of the budget maybe that's why they didn't explain things as well but this was a great video :)
yess. i watched the show with my sister and her husband, and they kept pausing the show to ask me what was going on.
Maybe season 2 will go into more details about the inner workings that they failed to mention in season 1. Given how much success and love they received from the first season, they're bound to receive better funding from Netflix.
What's there to know that is important to enjoying the show? I didn't read the book and it seemed clear to me from the first episode that wizards get placed into their own independent branch of the army (like an air force) and think they are better than other soldiers because they get treated better than other soldiers because they can do magic bender stuff.
I watched this with my brother, we haven't read the books. We understood it perfectly. Yes, it could have been longer and more thorough, but everything was explained enough that I got it. I even got the hints that Jesper had to be grisha because he seemed to have similar dialogue to the other materialki (or whatever). I understand some things might not be obvious to everyone, but most 'movie watchers' should be able to pick up on the tropes and make connections.
I've read most of the Grishaverse books - reading last atm. I watched the show with my wife who hadn't read the books, so there were moments where I had to 'fill the gaps' for her, although she enjoyed the show, I felt they were trying to cram too much in - like the characters fro Six of Crows...well' their backstories.
Leigh Bardugo said in an interview last year that this show is going to be more of a "High budget fanfiction" and i think that's a pretty accurate way to describe it.
As a reader of the grishaverse myself i realized it after the first episode that this show was targeted to the Present book fanbase because it picked up on all the things Fans loved about the books and clumped it all together, for example the relationship of kaz and inej is a fan favorite, again in the context of the books Its really fricking amazing, but the show took that and made it the entire plot for those characters which makes it boring to explore. Same goes for alina and mal/ the darkling.
Listen, everything Ben Barnes takes a breath in on screen is amazing
i’m a nerd so i’m gonna explain something else that the show didn’t care to give any info on. when they say that the darkling created the creatures in the fold, they don’t explain that he didn’t create them intentionally. they were kind of an unexpected consequence. the creatures in the fold used to be people that lived on the land the fold now occupies, and they are called volcra. when the people were surrounded in the darkness of the fold, they kind of just turned into monsters. like i said in my other comment, i’m not sure if the books explain how they were turned, but that’s beside the point. volcra are very different from the shadow creatures that follow the darkling out of the fold in the final scene. after alina defeated the darkling in the fold and ran away, the darkling developed the power to create a different type of creature. the books refer to these new creatures as nichevo’ya. he is able to control the nichevo’ya because they are a part of him. the nichevo’ya are intentionally made, and they are made directly from his powers. that is why the darkling can direct the nichevo’ya but not the volcra. i’d also like to add that making the nichevo’ya hurts the darkling. with every new one he makes, it’s almost as if a part of him goes with it. i guess i could say all of this in a more simple way…
the volcra were unintentional and aren’t connected to the darkling in any way, other than the fact that they were a consequence of him creating the fold. the nichevo’ya are a part of the darkling that he creates and can control.
i’m not actually sure if that was any more understandable than what i said before, but whatever. :)
this is also connected to another point i can clear up since i have nothing better to be doing. the darkling couldn’t expand the fold without the help of alina because of the volcra. i guess he needed to be inside the fold to expand it, or he would have to escape the fold after he expanded it? either way, he needed alina’s light to keep the volcra away since there was no other light source large enough to ward off the volcra. remember that the volcra are different from the nichevo’ya, and they are out to get the darkling just as much as they are to get anyone else, if not more. one should also keep in mind that this show is set somewhere in the past, so they didn’t have the technology to just build a giant flashlight and shine it across the fold.
thank u for coming to my SAB talk. :)
thank you! i was looking for this comment because it was bugging me that i didn't see no one explaining
I swear the show explains this I mean I knew this lmao
Imagine standing in front of Kaz Brekker -- Dirtyhands
, Bastard of the Barrel -- and asking "who are you".
he would be monolging for one hour
@@justintime3656 or just say "no one"
@@len0_069 he’ll say “no one” and then knock you out with his cane and steal your money. or at least, jesper would do that
By the end, The Crows don't achieve anything because they were never in that part of the book so the plot can't allow them to succeed
As someone who really liked the show without knowing anything about the books (yet... I did read book 1 since), I didn't mind the amount of explanation or exposition at all. To me you learn what you need to pretty much when you need to, and the rest just makes you want to watch more and learn more about the world.
Like with Kaz&Co; you do feel like you don't know everything about the characters and there's a complicated past there but that only makes me curious. As for Kaz's motivations, well, my understanding was: money. (Like, he's a casino owner...money seems to be his thing.) And maybe a desire to steal the deal away from that Godfather character who didn't "recognize him" despite Kaz apparently having some kind of vendetta against him.
Sure, the geopolitical stuff could've been done a little bit better. You get a lot of information right of the bat when it's hard to process all of it and I remember that somewhere around ep 2 or 3 I wished I had payed more attention or paused when the map of the world was up on the screen at the very beginning.
But feeling like the world is a big and somewhat complicated thing, with many parties having their own and sometimes unclear motivations, is actually something that I appreciate in fantasy when it happens. It makes the world richer. Like I don't know every details of the geopolitical situation in the very world I live in, I wouldn't expect to learn everything about a fictitious world on episode one.
Rather than getting info dumps, I much rather discover all of that slowly, when relevant, through the characters interacting with the world. Which is pretty much what S&B does.
Would you like some spoilers about kaz and co from someone who has read the books?
@@Thomas.jefferson - I've finished reading them since this comment. =)
I agreed with a lot of his points but I got so frustrated with his points on the explanation/exposition lol "she can destroy the fold" "then she is a threat to our independence", I hear that and I immediately think ok these people want to stay separated and therefore want to fold to remain in place, why do I need more explanation???
I didn't read the books, but I also must've paid more attention because I followed the plots and noticed a lot of the examples of questions you came up with without much effort. Like for instance the assassination plot that you mentioned was only brought up in the finale? They had all of the foreshadowing with the conductor and why he couldn't be trusted by the crows meeting with that same general. They had him assassinate fake Alina. They had him confess explicitly to getting paid more by that particular general in the finale to the darkling in a far earlier episode after Alina ran away (before the Darkling killed him). I mean... between the meetings, the crows setup, the actual assassination, the confession, and the final scene... I didn't need a book since it seemed like 5 in yo face clues were enough for me.
I also really didn't think that showing the beginnings of the fold would've been great for the storytelling, because part of the significance of it, is that no one is supposed to know that General Kirigan is the original Darkling and immortal and the creator of the fold. That would've been a massive spoiler reveal that I think would've detracted from the show a whole lot.
Of course I don't like my stuff spoonfed. Did I have some questions at first? Sure. But I found that usually they were answered pretty quickly. What's a heartrender? Oh, now I get it. Are there still some characters with some mystery to their backstories? Sure. But neither were any of them one-dimensional, and I think, thankfully we'll have more time to develop them.
when you were talking about nina and matthias’s dialogue, it’s important to note that the majority of their scenes are done word for word from the books!
Yikes dialogue in books usually sounds pretty weird in reality. It’s not a play so it will probably sound awkward :/
I love Nina and Matthias
@@belud862 I couldnt understand why Darkling cared to get Nina back. Is she a descendant of his? Also, she was just the grisha to help the crows get in the little palace when they cross the fold. she of course never turned up so they found another way to do it so I saw little point in showing her storyline with Matthias. Those nina/matthias scenes didnt flow with any of the storylines so i didnt think they belonged to shadow and bone at all. Does it make more sense if you read 6 of crows/crooked kingdom? I have not read them.
@@kebbiew.8359 Oh yeah definitely Nina and Mathias is so fit in and well done in the books but I can see how out of place it'll seem in the shadow and bone timeline. In the books, their story comes way after Alina and the Darkling's, so there's so crossing between them
@@kebbiew.8359 In the books (short story), the Darkling convinced Genya to not send the letters to Mal. I'm assuming that Nina takes Genya's place here as someone he trusts? I've been trying to figure out why as well, and I'VE READ THE BOOKS. Granted, I read them years ago.😬
You are absolutely right, I watch the show first and did not understand much, then I read the books. There is so much information that is not explain in the show that only people who have read the books can appreciate
I'll probably read some of them before season 2!
@@friendlyspaceninja You 100% should man! There's some great stuff in there!
@@friendlyspaceninja I'd honestly go for Six of Crows instead of Shadow and Bone ... I read the latter a few years ago and found Alina incredibly boring to follow, the world was nice, but not being interested in the main character just makes every book meh. Now that I watched the shows I started reading Six of Crows (which after reading S&B I thought I'd never read) and I quite enjoy it! Every single POV character is more interesting than Alina could ever be. Shows how Leigh Bardugo grew as an author in my opinion, so that's nice actually :)
@@friendlyspaceninja As most people probably already told you; you definitely should pick up Six of Crows since you've got the surface understanding of what Grisha is by now. Just read the trilogy once you are done with Six of Crows duology first.
Before watching the show I only read six of Crows, and i loved the part with characters I knew. After reading shadow and bone i understood more about Grisham army (it was most confusing thing for me)
You are so kind to actors. I appreciate that about your vids. You don't conflate actors' ability with bad writing; a lot of people fail to make this distinction.
“They are orphans so they will either adopt kids or run an orphanage.”
HOW DID YOU
Fr.
the delivery of the "do you need a Kitkat??" will never not sent me 😂
Iconic catchphrase tbh
It kills me too 🤣
well, to be honest, it's kind of a thing in the duology of Crows to not know what the motivation of Kaz is up to the very last minute
true but you always know what his end goal is
Its mostly pekka Rollins and money
The plot starts with money and they get pekka Rollins in the story by 15 to 16 chapters
I desperately need a 2 hour long Season 2 breakdown.
Including characters from Six of Crows into this "first season" was the biggest injustice to said characters. They are so much more interesting than the basic YA love triangle that dominates Shadow and Bone.
it *hurts me* that you hated the crows because they are actually the best charcters from the universe. Highly highly recommend Six of Crows. Its a heist story so it's really fun and all the characters are so complex and so amazing. Kaz just doesn't translate well to screen, which is a pity because he is one of the most nuanced characters in the universe.
Your review is spot on though. I love this show but like the books, it left me wanting. It has a lot of potential, but just fails at the execution. I think the writers didn't really understand the problems with the books (shadow and bone, not six of crows), so they never set out to fix them.
Caz’s movie translation has the same problem as katniss everdeen’s: all of their interesting stuff is only happening inside their heads
@@fortunatecookie Yes, exactly! Not all books should be movies. Harry Potter? Given how detailed and thick it was, works as a movie. But stuff like Hunger games where the vast majority is introspective, decision based thinking is what makes it great. I might be remembering it wrong, but I think katness didn't even really like Peta in the first book. Just like Jacob from Twilight, I'm like, girl is clearly not into him. Why people gotta try to make it a thing?
It's not spot on. He says some things are entirely unexplained, when that's not true. They are explained if you pay attention instead of having the show play on your tablet in the backgroud while you're doing meal prep Sunday.
I have not read the books. What are Kaz and his friends doing? They're in trouble with the Rollins guy who keeps taking over other businesses, they want a big prize and they take a job to kidnap Alina for a million bucks. Part of that is buying Inej out of ther slave contract.
The video says around the 8 minute mark that there's no explanation for why the guy at the docks orders Alina's assassination, when that was explained throughout the show: that's general Zlatan of West Ravka, who wants Alina dead so she can't destroy the Fold, so Ravka can't be reunited, so West Ravka can secede and he wants to rule the new independent country. He hired the train conductor to kill Alina for a million bucks, and he ended up killing a double. In episode 8, Zlatan plans to take one last chance to kill Alina and Kirigan. It's all perfectly clear if you pay attention.
I enjoy the videos, but I can't help but think what other perfectly clearly explained things Ninja has missed and presented in his videos as fact.
@@FMFF_ well handled filming, trumps a written narrative. Written works, are inferior to film.
Sorry, but in the show they were really bad and maybe that's the writers' fault. I wanted to fast forward every scene with them, because their storyline was not interesting at all and didn't fit in. Their inclusion in the series was clearly a marketing move to later do a spin-off and also attract their fans attention towards Shadow and Bone, but it didn't work and turned out really annoying. That screen time should have devoted to explaining the Shadow and Bone universe.
The Crows being added to this series was pure fan service, most of the book readers (myself included) enjoyed Six of Crows waaayy more than Shadow and Bone, it has more compelling characters and an engaging story.
They did an okay job mixing the stories considering they are three years apart, and I assume they will eventually get to the Crow's story in the duology if the show continues for that long, but it kinda sucks because then they can't develop them as well now without changing too much later.
Kaz is absolutely brilliant in SoC and you never know what his plans are until they're unfolding and I hope we get to see more of that brilliance in future seasons. The scenes between Nina and Matthias (the two you hated the most) are actually flashback scenes from the Six of Crows duology which is probably why they felt nonrelevant and glued on now, they'll matter later on if they ever get to the Crow's plotline.
Overall I enjoyed the show, but because I read the books I never realized until your video how little they explain the world and its characters. If you have the time, I definitely recommend reading the books, Shadow and Bone is kinda slow but Six of Crows is amazing and still stands as one of my favorites.
I have a question, should I read all of Shadow and bone to understand Six of crows? I really liked the characters when I was watching the series but I don't know if I need to read all of the other Brooks first
@@nightmareCatnip I didn't. I read SoC first cause SaB was boring af lmao. Then I went back and read Sab.
@@Kat-rw2fc oohh cool, I started SaB but found it boring so I didn't knew what to do. Thanks 😁
omg I love the crows and generally enjoyed them being in the show but gOd did it annoy me that they aged them up lksdjfalskdfj
like one of the most tragic aspects of the SoC books is that the majority of them are literally kids/freshly eighteen and in the show they clearly aren't. Also, Jesper's kid-like admiration for Nikolai was the cutest thing and now they're the same age so it's a different dynamic entirely. bUT I wouldn't've watched the show without the crows so eHh
@@professionalfangirl7024 Ugh ikr?! I feel my gut clench everything I remember how old they are in the books! Inej is freaking 16 when the story begins and the rest are barely 18!! The older actors just don't hit right. They're all gorgeous and talented but they don't give that necessary air of fragility and delicateness a younger cast would've provided. I wanted to see a young and soft looking Inej. One that could be overlooked and underestimated when it came to her skills. The actor that plays Kaz looks too appropriate for his role lol. I wanted an angry teenage grump who'd look a little odd and silly trying to lead a bunch of other teens with issues. Maybe I'm too picky😅
re: Alina's powerup. In the books it is explained that Grisha can claim an "amplifier" by killing a special animal and wearing its body parts i.e. feathers-scales-bones which will amp their powers. The stag is THE legendary amplifier, and when Alina wears the antlers she gets Super SUPER duper powerful.
There's also a whole thing about how the Darkling technically owned the amplifier because he killed the stag, so he could use Alina's powers for her, but then Alina realises that because she gave the stag mercy, the amplifier actually does belong to her....so she can use her powers for herself.
And also every Grisha can only wear one amplifier. And Alina IS the only sun summoner currently, but there have been legends of them for ages so there have been others in the past.
...in general, Shadow & Bone was the generic beginnings of an interesting but not outstanding trilogy, and the precursor to two of the best YA fantasy novels (Six of Crows/Cooked Kingdom)...so in adaptation, they tried to capitalise on the generic S&B story as well as the far better liked SoC characters and ended up with a scattered, mediocre adaptation that works at neither.
Yeah, I was upset with their handling of amplifiers in general because they made it seem like only the super powerful Grisha could have them which is just not the case.
Well, in the show it is shown that Alina was chosen by the stag
I literally gasped and had to pause the video when you said the Crows were the most boring characters. Everyone truly experiences everything differently cause to me they were by far the most interesting and charismatic characters. I loved the show but Jesper Kaz and Inej were my favorite characters by far.
Videos like this are a good reminder to me that everyone experiences media differently. Never read the books and was literally never lost or confused. I’m not saying I’m great at following stories just that this own seemed tropey enough, that I could always follow what was going on.
Honestly, same. Even though I only read 1 page of the book and didn't know 99.9% of the plot, I was still able to understand what was going on. And even if there were some very minor parts I didn't get, i still enjoyed watching the show very much.
yep. pretty sure the Sun Summoner+TheFold being a threat to West Ravka independence was explained by Episodes 2-3, and even more by Episode 5.
Yeah me too tbh
Same lol I followed just fine.
absolutely living for you questioning the existence of Kaz Brekker when he is undoubtedly one of the best character in the entire Grishaverse along with his Wraith; Inej Ghafa
edit: you....slandered Kaz Brekker and called Inej "Batman"......okay i'll pretend you never said that
It's sad. Book Kaz was a cunning bastard And the series has a edgy guy that walks And talks.
@@nithinnk1980 lmao he sure did, but maybe because the show don't incorporate inner monologue, which is where his complexity of his character came from
They gave the conductor so many ideas that Kaz would've come up with himself, thus making conductor seem like the schemer of the group and Kaz a useless guy.
@@nithinnk1980 but we need to realize that Kaz in the first season of shadow and bone is actaully 15 years old .... so he still has a lot of time for charcater development which we see in the next seasons.
@@julibmnn2941 he is not 15 in the show, like yeah if it was the books sure, but he doesn't even look like kaz as a teen but as an adult. Also yeah this kaz was way before the cunning kaz we see in six of crows, still a bit dissapointed
i actually feel like alina's whole 'i dont wanna save the world' attitude was kinda refreshing and more realistic. there are lots of ya fantasy protags who have this sort of morality code and are like 'im gonna save the world!'
Yeah it's very refreshing I loved how she wasn't really special and just wanted a normal life with her childhood bestie and that if she had the choice to leave that power to someone else she would do so in a heart beat, it's also cool that instead of taking things into her own hands and force her moral code on everyone, she was forced into doing things for the greater good which highlights a trope YA fantasy series usually ignore which is some people's incapability to make decisions on their own for the good of the rest, it would have been really bland if Alina just discovered her powers and her new-found ability to be a leader out of nowhere.
i kinda agree 😭😭
But Katiniss is exactly this way, but with a personality.
Ninja: the Crows are the most boring part of this.
Me while watching the show after watching the review: idk what you talking about man, I'm struggling through all the shadowy-meadowy love triangle stuff just to see Kaz hitting someone with his cane
Mood
PREACH
I’m so sad you didn’t like the Crows 😭 Hopefully the next season will be better!
Me too! From what I heard, they sound like fantastic characters in the books!
@@friendlyspaceninja THEY ARE! I hope the show didn't turn you off too much, there's a lot to enjoy about them!
@@friendlyspaceninja yes!! six of crows is my favorite book series of all time and it's mostly bc of how amazingly the characters are written
Oh boy oh boy. If you couldn't stand Mal and Alina in the show, you are definitely never going to want to subject yourself to the books lol. As someone who read the books (and didn't actually like them, but I did like Six of Crows) I thought show Mal and Alina were waaaaay less annoying than book Mal and Alina.
Book Mal and Alina made me want to bang my head against a wall, ESPECIALLY Mal. I really wish Bardugo would rewrite Shadow and Bone and make it better, because it had potential, but it fell flat so bad.
Actually the whole "threat to independence" is explained. West Ravka is separated from East Ravka by the fold. They are still one country. They want to be an independent nation since they are on the coast and have to constantly send goods and stuff through the fold and taxes and shit to the part of the kingdom that was cut off since that is where the King is. If she destroys the fold, they won't be able to stay independent or have a chance at seceding from the Kingdom.
Kaz is really one of the best written characters I have ever seen. Really hope they spli six of crows into their own series because their books are incredibles.
you see, i loved the show as i'm a big fan of six of crows (the grisha trilogy is fine but not that interesting), and so i didn't realize how many problems it actually had before watching this video. i love nina and matthias in the books and just assumed they were decent in the show, but seeing your perspective on them really made me think of how much was lost in adaptation about their story
As someone who loves the books I completely agree with everything. The dialogue and pacing flows are pretty obvious but I hadn’t really considered how blank the characters seem if you haven’t read the books. The crows were the most superior characters of all the grishaverse and I really wish they develop more in the second season. I was almost heartbroken when he talked about how blank kaz was cause he is like the most interesting and complex character in the books but I also realised how little he contributed to the plot of the show
RIGHT but in a way thats how most people view kaz within the grishaverse. He's blank, he cant be read, no one knows what his motives are really, and even inej who knows him the most, in the first book cant figure him out
The biggest problem with Kaz is that what we know about him comes from his inner monologue, which is incredibly hard to translate to the screen. Kaz doesn't really talk much about himself or show much emotion, so his complexity comes from his thoughts. People are also complaining he's not as ruthless, but people have to remember that this is pre-six of crows and his character still has to get to the "bastard of the barrel" level. I do hope that next seasons will expand on that more though
I haven't read the book and I absolutely loved the crows! They were the highlight of the whole season and I had the best time when I watched them. I agree there were a lot of things that weren't said about them but THAT made me more interested in their plot and their actual goal. In comparison the main plot was mediocre. I wasn't invested in those whole grisha things at all - it's just more of the same tale in different words, just an okay plot, nothing special.
@@vairre9002 same here.. even i loved their story so much that i just wanted to know more about them and went and read the six of crows duology.. I must say it was the best.. they really should make a spin off for crows.. coz im worried they ll cut most of the story line while making s2.
Not knowing everything about them, just makes them feel like real characters who had been living their lives before the story started. I’m not going to read until the TV is over.
Damn I was listening to you and you do have some valid points, manay of them are plain wrong. Alina's power are consistent and she had no healing power. The scene you used in the video when talking about her healing Mal is her using the heat from the light to warm them up? She can use light to protect herself as a shield and that is outside the realm of normal physic though.
The scene when you say Aleksander is evil and want to expand the Fold but need another power source is plain wrong. If you pay attention to the movie you will realize that he can easily expand it, but he needs Alina to shrink it, to control it, else he cannot use it for anything practical.
Is weird that I understood the show even without reading the books? I bought all of them and they’re yet to arrive but I actually understand the show. I actually enjoyed the crowd so much I decided to buy the books. I went in blind because I’m a sucker for the YA genre and I’ll always give it a chance. I actually enjoyed the show.
omg I screamed when I got the notification
NO MOURNERS
.
.
edit: omg when he dissed the crows AND ESPECIALLY KAZ that hurt me physically I am not even joking 😭😭
NO FUNERALS
NO FUNERALS
NO FUNERALS
no funerals... and I havent started watching, if he disrespects kaz or any other of our babies, I will probably riot, just because I don't take any criticism when it comes to the crows lol
NO FUNERALS
As a person who's read the book, Mal being described as a breath of fresh is hilarious 😂😂😂
But I agree, TV Mal is excellent
OMG yes!! I hated book Mal....
I feel like I am the only person who actually liked book Mal more then TV Mal. I couldn't stand TV Mal at all.
I watched the first season before I read the books. When I was reading the books I was waiting for the crows to appear but they never did. At the end I liked the books more than the show (it is still good but books always have more dept). I hope, the will follow the books because things get really good and exciting. It also explains why Mal is such a good tracker.
Was looking for this comment 😂
If they never specifically mention the character's age in canon, I think it's entirely normal to have them be the age they look. Alina isn't 17 in the show and I will never consider her 17 because she never fucking said it, she works (WORKS!) as a cartographer. Nothing about the show seems to point to any of the characters being teenagers.
I think the ONLY reason it says she's 17 on fandom wiki is because that's the same age as she is in the book, and not because there's anything in canon that points to it
well, she works as a cartographer in the book too. It's not very far-fetched if they were drafted at like 16. But yeah, I agree that making both of them (and the other Grisha like Genya or Zoya) at least in their early 20s kinda works better for the show.
For someone who has read the books. The six of crows characters are so much more interesting than the shadow and bone characters. And it was amazing to see the characters meet and interact. I don’t understand why they didn’t just make a six of crows show. It is a way better story.
I feel so bad for "batman and her friends". Because your right, in the show they kept doing stupid stuff. I feel bad because in their books they go on very detailed heists that are so well thought out and planned you can't help but be impressed. This show really did them dirty. Also in the books their so much more badass and have so much more personality!
Would I have to read shadow and bone before reading the crows books or can I just skip ahead?
@@africanodyssey4805 you can just skip, I did at least
@@africanodyssey4805 The magic system is explained more in Shadow & Bone, and there are some characters from S&B and Siege and Storm (S&B 2) that show up in Crooked Kingdom (SoC 2), but you should be fine
i actually thought that Kaz, Jesper and Inej had a more interesting story than Alina that it’s supposed to be the protagonist
@@aleepuig they have much more defined personalities, so even though their story doesn't have a ton of payoff, they were the most enjoyable aspect of the show for me.
The fact that they do stupid stuff... IDK, I haven't read six of crows, but some people saw it as a positive that they aren't as competent as they'll eventually be, that their flaws (Kaz having to improvise a lot, notably) seem to be a setup for their future growth.
They also are absurdly compatible with the game "blades in the dark". They're a crew of hawkers; Inej is a lurk , Jesper a hound, kaz obviously a spider...it fits just too well.
It's YA fantasy, so in the books basically all lead characters are teenagers, exempt Darkling (he claims to be 120 years old while actually being much much older). But they obviously aged everyone up, I think TV characters meant to be in their twenties, and they look appropriatly.
They're all supposed to be in the 15-18 age range in the books, right? It would always take me out of the scenarios of the books because of how they speak and react to things. I'm so glad they're portrayed as older in the show.
It's kind of clear tonally that the only reason they're as young as they are in the books is because it's YA, and they have to be 15-18 to fit the demographic. You don't really have to buy them as young kids because it's inconsequential.
About the inconsistence of the Darkling’s power, it is actually just badly explained but it is logical : the Darkling unintentionally created the Fold whilst trying to do merzost (a very bad and dangerous kind of magic) and since he didn’t mean to make the fold, he can’t actually control it and that’s why he needs Alina who can. Now about the creatures of the Fold, the script doesn’t explain it (bc of effect, to tease us for the next season) but the ones who obey and follow the Darkling in the end are not the ones in the Fold. He juste used merzost to create them (I forgot their name but it’s extremely long) and they protected him from the Volcras (the ones he can’t control)
And now Netflix cancelled it! Unbelievable, but what do I expect from them. I'm really sad for the cast and the staff, they were really good.
I agree that the main characters weren't that engaging, and I definitely also hated the parts with Nina and Matthias, but my jaw dropped when you said the crows were boring. When a crows scene started, I checked back IN to the show. I just automatically fell in love with the over the top, flashy, edgy vibes that they brought, and I feel like the reason that they don't give much information on Kaz's backstory or motivations is to add to the mysterious air around his character, which they'll hopefully fill us in on in later seasons. I'd never read any of the books, but after the first two episodes I put six of crows on hold at the library, and read it in like two days once I got it.
Finally, someone who does not care for Nina and Mattias I thought I was the only one!
I don't give a damn about Nina and mathais but kaz, Inej and Jesper are definitely not boring and are hands down the best characters in the show.
As far as I'm aware I think they stuck the Crows in this show to get the fanbase to watch it, because as my understanding is: the fanbase doesn't find Shadow and Bone to be their favorite of the books. Six of Crows is often praised so they just put them in there for like... fan service.
I've never read the books but I did a little research after watching the show. I gotta say that the crows were the most interesting characters in the show imo, I really enjoyed their dynamic. Mal and Alina are good, they're not entirely boring, but I'd probably be less interested if they were the main characters in the show.
When her powers are stronger and the shields are bigger and everything, she is using an amplifier - either the darkling or the stug.
DID YOU JUST CALL KAZ BREKKER BORING? 😭
All of the SoC characters have HUGE backstories that were never really shown here. This is so sad.
Six of Crows deserves its own show :')
Doesn't mal get like, definitely fatally injured on at least three occasions? And then he just sort of gets up and carries on?
I hated this exaggerated plot armour just to make mal look badass
As someone who never touched a Grishaverse book, I followed along and understood the world pretty easily from just the tv show, it ironically seemed fairly straight forward to me but the fact that I didnt know everything did peak my interest in the books
Yup as soon as I finished the show I got the entire set of grishaverse books lol
Me: aw yay, Space Ninja talks about Shadow and Bone!! As a fan of the show and the SoC books I’m sure he’ll have a lot of great opinions about the Dregs!
Space Ninja: *Kaz is the most bland character ever*
Me: 😀😃
(I’m just saying… read the “Six of Crows” books, Kaz is NOT bland)
They explain some of the issues you had tho. Darkling couldn’t control the fold or the monsters because he doesn’t have enough power (he somehow learns about it at the end of the show but that’s why the end of the show pose a new mystery) hence the reason for the stag. Alina gains power because the stag hence the reason she was making fireflies to lazerbeams. My issue was that the stag’s ability isn’t explained at all so the control aspect comes out of nowhere for me. The crows didn’t have time to gather information because they secure the ride at the last minute. The crows wanted Alina for money. It was a throwaway line but it was there (it’s one of the reason Batman was conflicted in the show). Stoic dude also showed kindness throughout the show just minimally (part of the reason he want to do the job was to free Batman from servitude). I agree with everything else tho.
i think the reason things are brushed over and simplified is that they squeezed two different book series that have nothing to do with each other and have different storylines into one show. Which means they had to pick one main plot. they ended up picking the main plot of the books Shadow And Bone and just sprinkling in the characters for Six Of Crows. (and most people who are into the GrishaVerse agree that Six Of Crows is better written technically and a hell of a lot more mature and complex) I think the problem with that is that since they weren't able to use the original storyline that means the characters are a bit different than they are actually supposed to be (at least the crows are)
I think personally they should have kept the crows out of it and kept the shadow and bone storyline because sometimes the crows feel out of place and Its kind of sad we are never gonna get the full extent of the characters or the fantastic plot in the Six Of Crows duology because of how they did it
as someone who read every book in the grishaverse, i have to admit that the show assumed that all the viewers have already read the books, so much was not explained. I actually liked the way they introduced the six of crows characters here.
Never read any of the books. I have to say you would have to be picking really hard or actively trying to be obtuse to be this confused or not picking up what is going on. And I only watched it casually. Great series.
lol true
have noticed he knocks things or says he doesn’t understand what’s going on if everything is no explicitly laid out in words on the screen. or that characters make no sense when they are just acting like people. people often make no sense from a rational perspective.
“How did Daenerys forget about the Iron fleet?” Killed me😂
I really enjoyed watching you kinda roast this show even though I'm a book reader who actually liked it. But a lot of things you mentioned that weren't explained *were* explained actually. Like the reason Alina is OP in the last battle is because she has an Amplifier and Amplifiers are brought up multiple times during the show and in the early episodes.
Edit: It only started to but when you were roasting the crows but when you called helnik the worst thing in the show my heart broke.
See, I completely understand the amplifying part, but the thing that didn't make sense was how she was able to control her powers so seemlessly after they got amplified, when for the majority of the show she struggled controlling her base level powers. If that makes sense to anyone haha
@@OroHoneyLemon Its like when she touched the Darkling and was able to use them effortlessly. The Darkling is an amplifier just like the stag was.
Alina sadly is underdeveloped, in the books she actually had to train a lot to make progress with her powers and hand to hand combat, she actually feels quite sick because she can't unlock her powers at first
Her powers felt so unearned in the show
It's season 1, you're supposed to be confused and in the dark until the information is revealed to you.
At least that's my perspective on first seasons.
its a fine line though, trying to keep the audience interested without giving too much away. But alternatively if not enough of the world/plot is explained (especially for fantasy/ sci-fi) interest is quickly lost as what is happening is insignificant to the audience.
in the books, the majority of the first book is Alina training to use and strengthen her powers, and therefore we watch her physical and magical strength improve over time. this not only makes her powers more consistent and allows the reader to watch her powers grow over time, but also justifies why she spends so much time just hanging out at the little palace and not destroying the fold - inconsistencies
I actually like reluctant protagonists.
Like if someone told me I had to save the world, I'd be a little bothered and then go straight back to procrastinating.
right
Yeah even if it's more realistic to how people would react (and gonna be honest I think the majority of people would care more than alina does) personally I found it really unengaging to watch a character who's meant to save the world spend 8 episodes not doing much except whine about being apart from her love-interest-who-the-show-won't-even-admit-is-her-love-interest-yet. It's hard to root for her when the only thing she cares about is mal especially if the show hasn't sold you on their relationship
realistic takes don't make for compelling stories to watch tho.
I hope they adapt Six of Crows, I feel like that story is a lot less clichéd then Shadow and Bone.
Also, I love that you kept calling the Darkling Ben Barnes, because I did the same thing when I was watching.
Thank you for doing this! I got one episode in because there were just too many questions, and not enough explanation.
Absolutely love your video. And the coherency with witch you put my toughts about this series. I mentioned your video in my Insta.
KAZ BREKKER DIDNT NEED A REASON ANYMORE THAN HE NEEDED PERMISSION - TO BREAK A LEG, SEVER AN ALLIANCE, OR CHANGE A MANS FORTUNES WITH THE TURN OF A CARD
ok so i've seen many people in the comments being like 'wELL ACTUALLY ABOUT THAT-' when it comes to certain issues you've had with the show, and idk, maybe its just me, but if each and every problem or plothole or whatever that people who didnt read the books came across while watching the series is needed to be explained by a long ass paragraph, then perhaps something about the show isnt working out that well
edit: cuz like, as someone who had read the books, i really didnt notice any of the storytelling problems, because i already knew pretty much everything, but now, looking back, its true that there were so many things kinda just thrown in there without any sort of explanation whatsoever
100% agree. As someone who hadn't read the books it took waaaay too long for me to understand what a grisha was
Exactly!!
Thank you. If it worked for book readers, good for them, but I haven't read these books and now I never will. When it showed up on NF, I tried to understand what world I was being presented with. Had a hell of a time trying to connect the dots of what was going on and it's too bad that we have to look up spoilers or entertain longwinded explanations from book readers and invest even more time parsing through further content just to MAYBE enjoy one tv show (out of the endless selection of streaming shows.) I'm not dumb, but do have limited patience for stories that are overcomplicated and under-explained. An audience shouldn't have to reach so much to enjoy a world limited only by the creators' imagination. Fantasy should never bore.
I'm somewhat middle of the road in this. When pointed out I agree that it's an odd choice to leave the reveal of almost everyone's motivation etc to the last 2 episodes. On the other hand I don't think every detail needs to be explained right away either. There's enough media where you are left in the dark about its true nature until almost the very end. Shadow and Bone just fckd up the pacing in the tv show.
@@amara560 yea, i get what you're saying, it wouldnt have been good either if they would've made the first few episodes a big lore dumping history lesson, its just that there were important things that took way too long to be explained properly (like what a grisha exactly is)
to me it kinda feels like the writers of the show thought they had more time with building things up, revealing everyones motivation, etc.. but at some point somebody told them that "you guys, there are only 2 or 3 episodes left, hurry up a bit"
I watched this whole show when Season 1 came out and it got me into wanting to read the books!! I really do love the whole show and it's amazing lol
Does anyone else think they made Alina's light summoning powers seem like magic when they are literally supposed to be like bending?