Tik Tok and dissonance do not mix
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2021
- Tik Tok and spicy harmony do not mix.
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Tik Tok has recently imploded over a young singer who sang harmony to Matt Maltese’s As the World Caves in. Why? Well, it’s the legacy of Palestrina, Fux and the long shadow of Western European aesthetics in the modern global musical ecosystem. Let’s dive into it.
Andrew Huang Harmonic Series Video
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Do you have relative or perfect pitch?
@@user-ck1kx5ie6t my buddy he's in principal bassist and a bunch of orchestras in South America had the most insane perfect pitch. I would literally play 10 random notes with both hands on a piano and he would be able to identify them all and tell me which ones were out of tune it was insane
Oh come on. Misogyny??? This has nothing to do with her sex. People just didn't like her style of singing. Why is it that people always jump to conclusions when a woman is criticized? Seems someone is brainwashed by feminist theories. The patriarchy is out to get them. That's ridiculous.
@@EbonyPope Agreed, he just put it in there for no reason
Interesting intonation in your Segway to nebula
Conclusion: girl so metal, she's singing in power chords
@@--.._ keep trying buddy! I’m still a pretty crappy guitarist but you’ll develop calluses soon.
@@--.._ Don't worry mate, you'll get used to it. Besides, it's nearly all guitar playing that gives you the feeling, I think.
@@--.._ Power chords? Hard? You don't know the meaning of the word until you've played a C#minb7#9add13/E=mc².
@@samcohen8257 fxxk me 😩😞
@@--.._ don't worry, once you get used to em you will play them like nothing :), guitar takes time and lots practice
Imagine harassing someone because you didn't like their harmony. Bruh
tiktok never fails to amaze me ... 🤦🏾♂️
Harassment online is complicated, because for the harassers it feels just as a single joke or opinion thrown away. It feels a lot worse for the harassed because it's coming from a ton of people at once. That's the problem with the internet, everything is amplified.
Sounds like a typical conversation between two musicians from opposite genres, nothing new
Well when your stew brain only knows 4 chords from hearing the same pop song on the radio 6 times a minute and not knowing anything about what youre listening to. I kinda get that when they hear something creative and not entirely polished autotuned and watered down that it might sound "bad" to them.
Imagine expecting a nuanced response from the tiktok majority, seems like a dubious proposition...
the "Atom bomb locks in" part was actually really beautiful, i think people just aren't used to how the "I Lie" part played out
Agreed
I could have excused the backlash from people not too used to dissonance if it was dissonant all the way through but, like, the gal is just adding harmonic spice at some specific points and people have the gall to call it objectively ugly.
@@Kimbieeverytime I hear the sound without the dissonance in a video I have to look up this video to listen to it again because I literally like it better
it sounds very interesting sadly she got a lot of hate😢
That part fucking slaps. Gives me Hayley Williams vibes.
"Young people are all about conformity"
Ugh. This got me in the feels.
That’s sadly mostly true, but we need to remember that not all young people are like that. I would consider myself a young person and love dissonance and harshness in music.
It’s my fundamental issue with TikTok as a platform and on a similar page, social media in general.
The whole idea of a trend on TikTok just sees people copying and repeating the same idea over and over, rarely with any actual innovation or change to it.
Like how many times do you see the same video but with someone else’s face mouthing the words over and over.
Trends can insight creativity, but it’s the least creative ones that don’t change anything in the trend that tend to do the best.
It’s quite the opposite, actually. Nowadays, it’s popular to be non-conforming. In fact, it seems that everyone has this mentality that everyone else is conforming and they’re somehow the special one. But if everyone’s special, then no one is.
That's such a boomer thing to say and not really true anyway. It can be said the same about adults. Maybe the lesson from this is that there's a huge work to do with kids on harrassement, not stupid generalizations.
@@bunsenn5064 i have to disagree. Although my perspective is narrow, at my school at least, those who appear to believe they are the 'special one' are ridiculed for thinking they're the 'main character'. At my school, it's narcissistic to think you're special, cringey to act different, but funny to act different if you do so ironically. There ARE plenty of non-conformers, but few who are half as respected by their peers as those who do conform. Conformers and non-conformers also rarely mix.
The "correct harmony" Duet makes me irrationally angry
I could take the guy who made that. I’d be able to destroy him. Right upper cut, and it’s lights out.
It's like that nefarious "fixing people's art" Twitter trend made its way into music
Anyone got the link to said TikTok?
It makes my skin crawl 🤮 reminds me of the incredibly uncomfortable feeling of working with musical purists, something I'm never ever going to do again
idk why she didn’t just add it on. those both could work together
"The piano ain't got no wrong notes." - Thelonious Monk
Monk, surely, had a great budget for piano tuning... ;P
i mean, who'd argue with Monk?
Stealing.
God, that’s the punchiest fuckin music quote I’ve ever heard.
Oh gosh, Monk's music is wonderful, no wonder this quote is just as good lol.
I actually REALLY want a full version of the dissonant song
Me too
Same
the future generations music taste worries me
@@cunnieseverywhere why?
@@awesomesauceyumyum this dissonance heard in the video literally makes me feel uneasy and nothing else
I thought her harmony was absolutely brilliant. I loved the weight it added to the melody, the gravity of the harmony almost pulling the melody down with it. If you think about it in the example of two people singing to each other, the melody represents love while the harmony respects loss. The melody soars to the heavens, invoking a feeling of hope, optimism, romance; while the harmony represents loss, a sense of melancholy, and despair. Simply stunning.
Very true, great words to describe it- it feels like the type of harmony you’d hear on broadway. Two characters arguing or expressing themselves pessimistically vs optimistically. Maybe not genius in all scenarios, and sure I will admit that it caught me off guard hearing it for the first time but- it’s not stupid or “wrong,” that’s for sure.
Eh, I think the harmony could've worked if her singing had been more refined and eerie. Falsetto, maybe? The delivery she chose gives meme vibes, it's like she's asking someone in the next room to bring her more chips
@@GnomereginamIt's a TikTok, not a mixed track. It's karaoke. People are taking this way too seriously.
@@Tempo1337 Exactly, it's mediocre yet people were hating on it like crazy as well as worshipping it.
@@Gnomereginam Yeah. It's another example of emotional incontinence, or however you spell that word. Personally I think we could do worse than go back to the days of either "That was alright!" or "It's not my cup of tea". But instead, everything has to be either the most awsome thing ever, or the worst thing ever.
i miss choir because singing dissonant harmonies always felt so powerful. you could literally feel the sound in your whole body
Eric Whitacre?
And us Bassist not knowing what part are we singing 😵
i loved it too, id have to hold back tears sometimes lol
ABSOLUTELY
Especially as a base you can feel the shift and it's fucking awesome. Ended up dropping chior but even now I really appreciate a lot of this stuff
Bob Ross never said...."omg...you are using the wrong colours in that painting!"
Ok but bob ross never painted in exclusively light yellow and white,
@@ticklesdust he probably could’ve if he was asked, he did a painting just in grey for someone who was colorblind.
a note like that is what Bob Ross would call a "happy accident" 😉
@@bradjtx That's not really comparable though, by using grey you can paint very precise values and the contrast just looks way clearer than by using white and light yellow. In fact, it is a very common digital art technique to paint in only grayscale and then put in the colors when you're finished setting the values, it's not unusual.
im sure he would've if one of those damn cosmic entities started painting in octamarine
Oh man, I really love the young woman doing Schonberg for us. The eyebrows, the *checks notes*, the little head tilt, it's flawless. I didn't know I needed more musical comedy in my life
12:04 is one of the funniest things I've ever seen/heard/perceived and I love it so much
literally laughed out at the "locks"
It's a very interesting harmony imo.
It's sung with excellent pitch, so the listener's ear won't think it's just a note accidentally sung a bit sharp. The major third over the root note is "happy" sounding, while the minor third is "sad" or "dark" sounding. Combining them together (with a guest appearance by the major 7th over the root) makes this comforting yet deeply unsettling sound.
Tik Tok: "Ew, that sounds weird."
People that listen to metal: "Sick dissonance! \m/"
As a TOOL fan, I agree with this this so much. :) Dissonance makes my heart swoon.
Absolutely! I am a sucker for anything dissonant and there's no better genre that uses it than extreme metal, sorry jazz!
@@GravyTraining you're a tool fan????:000000000000
@@esined2386 Massively.
@@GravyTraining Good on you bro, good on you...
imagine getting bullied all over tiktok but then Adam Neely makes a video about your harmony
along with 100 other people
Divine retribution
Makes it all worth it
The internet works in mysterious ways
@@Contributron I don't know about that. In an ideal world there wouldn't have been any harassment and still something interesting to discuss.
I can't imagine getting dog piled like this, especially when you're this young.
She honestly handled it amazingly. But, it is kinda sad that young women especially kinda don't have a safe space online to express themselves, without having to fear brutal dogpiling like this.
It's so crazy that someone can think the harmony "sounds bad" and therefore believe that the harmony doesn't deserve to exist, as if they themselves are the gatekeeper of all music. Social media is rotting all our brains.
Most people are conditioned to think in black and white terms of right and wrong. It makes life much simpler
The intention of the musician matters. When they intend to create a dissonant harmonization, the work makes sense. When they're dissonant and intended to sound consonant, they need ear training.
Same people that listen to npc music like ava max and taylor
@@thepotatotaxi2430 Calling music “NPC” music and insulting people for listening to it isn’t any better. All music has value.
@@sharpeningtheaxe Monetary value < artistic value
Her dissonance is fantastic and when she releases it to the third it's just a perfect moment, capturing the subject of the song so well. The bliss within the destruction. And her mouth is more open because she is singing loudly in her chest register and carrying it up over the break. All in all, a smart musician and vocalist.
I very strongly dislike anyone capable of saying 'the correct harmony' with a straight face. You'll limit yourself creatively and spread misinformation and prejudice with that attitude.
It's just smug elitist nonsense
Saying a harmonization is "incorrect" is like saying a certain color is "incorrect" in an abstract painting. It's just a fucking nonsense idea.
u got it simon. There is no right or wrong in music. The 808s in Congratulations are detuned and it went platinum
this is the incorrect opinion. 😂 jk lol
I can sometimes understand the phrase when they're referring to the specific harmony used by the recording artist who wrote the song. Even then though... leave room for artistic freedom.
"do you like this harmony?"
Adam you fucked up my musical taste i don't even know
It's definitely not ghost pepper spicy.
@@ItsMrBozToYou god please don't remind me of that
I fuckin' cackled; good job
Good, good. His work here is done, then.
Same
that schonberg harmony clip absolutely killed me, especially when the harmony made the voices sound like an error noise on the last note lmao
My only problem with the harmony is that it overpowers the main melody, as if it's trying to be the main focus of the song rather than adding to the sound of the main melody. Other than that I don't have any problems with it, and would honestly want to hear a full version with the harmony
Yep, it’s the not super great blending, rather than the notes.
i quite like the fact that its overpowering it in an artistic sense. the main melody is really beautiful and almost too perfect but the harmony brings about an ethereal vibe that feels uncanny as if the weight of the situation is creeping in while youre in a trance-like state from disbelief, slowly acknowledging the chaos as you pull away from the whimsical peace your mind put you in as means of protection (denial). rather than viewing it as overwhelming the main piece, i can see it as part of the subject itself and adding to the narrative. the slashing contrast between the comforting notes and eerie melody perfectly encapsulates my hypothetical experience in the event of an apocalyptic event.
@@jvhykx From that perspective, I do think it adds to it and I will concede there, but my choir-pilled ass goes "NO!!!!!! BLEND!!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!" XD
@@jvhykxwell,
….that’s like your opinion, man
Yeah but every tiktok musician does that. That one bassist being the main offender
"No parallel fifths!"
The entire heavy metal genre: "Guess I'll just die."
If is one voice its okay, just like you jump around with octave hands on a piano ;)
@@Gabe-ch2ol are you talking to me?
@@Gabe-ch2ol cause most of metal riffs are played moving the same power chord (1, 5, sometimes 8) shape around the fretboard and basically building a single voice playing parallel fifths and octaves. But rhis is okay cause those rules exist to emphasize voice independence, which is not what metal is looking for. Metal wants just one huge voice, because of that often the guitar is doubled an octave below by the bass and we have four line playing the same voice. Also the kick scans rhe rhythm of this voice.
That's part of the point, though. The rule is there because it sounds good, but metal was a genre born out of rebellion and rule-breaking. Parallel 5ths / octaves? Naked tritones? Check. Part of the in-your-face aggression is due to this rule breaking. It sounds harsh instead of sweet, but that's the point.
In a way, the existence of that rule helped inform metal because you can't break the rules if there's no rule to break.
This is also why it's important to learn the rules, so when you break them it's intentional and you know why you're doing it.
Despite Adam's recent vendetta against western music theory, I doubt he would choose to ignore it if he could do it all over again. It's too useful of a system, even if you choose to subvert it.
@@bluesdealer I think it's more appropriate to analyze para5s in metal as as "line independence isn't completely necessary" than making the jump to "it's specifically because punk wanted to break the rules." There are plenty of theory rules that when you break em they just sound awful anywhere (horror soundtracks the exception)
Jazz ruined my ears, there was not a moment I didn’t ADORE her rendition
Hard same. So much life.
Ahahahahah that comment made me laugh way too hard
Man I really like the comment about them sounding like they were singing to each other. I imagined it as higher melody being sax and home girls voice as trombone (my inst) and that's EXACTLY how what I would have went for in a duet. So rich 🥰
Gave me intense goosebumps, loved it
Me either, but not due to jazz. It was the dissonance and release. The dissonance increases, then partially resolves at the middle of the phrase--keeping that long note from feeling like the end--and then resolves completely at the actual end of the phrase.
I remember my choir teacher in high school, when teaching us our harmonies with each other, called any written dissonance "crunchy". And so, to this day, I hear this type of stuff and go "Ooo, that's *cronchy* ". I was also in one of the sections that the harmony was typically more dissonant in, so I got to hear it for myself. Not saying that my musical palette is better than anyone else's or anything. I just like the *cronch*
Video is two years old, I know. But I've gotta say,
That harmony that she came up with is actually so f-ing sick dude, the dissonance to the resolution is actually the sickest thing I've heard in a while.
My favorite composer is Shostakovich, I should probably mention LOL dissonance is sick guys, i promise LOL
throwing out a like for Shostakovich love
I can’t quite fully put my finger on which song, but the dissonance makes me think of various 90’s bands like Faith No More and Mushroomhead who definitely played around with weird intervals and arrangements. it sounds lifted right off the Angel Dust album
"young people demand conformity and music is a powerful cultural tool for enforcing it" WOW
Reminds me of the Arcade Fire song "Rococo"
DANGGGGG so true oh my god
That’s why only industry plants succeed in the modern industry
bro it is not that deep lmfao
@@maverickREAL it really is, though
Conclusion: She harmonized in a way that was bold and stuck out, and it worked out like the Chinese proverb, the nail that sticks out gets hammered down.
The reasons for it being obvious.
@@mito._ Obvious but wrong. I have about as much music training as you can get, and I think her harmonization sounds awesome, playing off tradition but still sounding fresh and audacious.
@@stephen6691 I think your opinion on the matter is no more valid than anyone else's. But the fact that you think your opinion makes you more "right" than others seems to indicate you don't understand what opinions are.
I don't have to like pineapple on pizza, but I can agree that it's a valid topping. Similarly, the choice of harmonization here isn't "wrong" but it does make my stomach hurt. So yeah.
@Hooman Being That's the thing about reinforcing racial hierarchy. You don't have to do it on purpose to do it. It's all around us and we're indoctrinated into it.
A fish doesn't know what water is.
@@michaellessel5532 wtf does music and harmonies have to do with white supremacy i am so confused
Here in Iceland we have a traditional way of singing called tvísöngur, where melodies are harmonized using parallel fifths. We were so isolated that we missed the memo that parallel fifths were bad. I am so used to singing these traditional songs that harmonizing in parallel fifths does not at all sound odd to me.
If you are interested I recommend the song, Ísland farsældar frón
i loved the harmonization when i first heard it here hahah. the “sounds like they’re singing to each other” is so true. it reminds me of that climax in a musical or something where the lovers are on two different wavelengths and can’t sing a “proper” harmonization but it’s emotional and they’re trying so hard to sing with one another but they’re too dissonant, they aren’t “perfect”. like i can see the entire scene play out and how much it would make me cry like a little baby because of how uncomfortable but beautiful it can sound like.
She had an idea for a harmony, recorded it on her phone, and put it on TikTok. People reacted like Apple pushed this version to all their phones. Damn, relax.
Such is a reactionary tribalistic community. Us vs Them mentality is sometimes dangerous
@Hacking On The Spectrum
That's not true though. Racism hasn't always existed because the concept of race hasn't always existed. Human nature is more complicated than "us vs. them" and saying otherwise is simplistic and ignorant; mutual aid is a huge part of human existence, and I'd even argue it's much more important to our nature.
Systematic oppression and cruelty exist because of systems and material condition, not because "humans are born evil." The hobbesian notion of innate human cruelty is as ridiculous today as it was during his lifetime.
@@IvanSN Prejudice against those who differ in appearance is human nature. Tons of research bears this out. Racism is just one example of this prejudice, and it existed long before the concept of race was codified. Those who look, sound, or act different are foreign and dangerous. Those who look, act, and sound familiar are safe. It's an innate human trait, and probably one that had survival advantages in the past.
@@sophielatterno6364
Prejudice is innately a human quality, but it doesn't innately define humans. We are more than capable of overcoming our prejudices
@@IvanSN Racism hasn't existed before the concept of race? That's... simply false lmao
Adam: "The lesson we can take from this..."
Me: "Don't harass people?"
Adam: "Western-European polyphonic aesthetics are being relentlessly upheld as what is good."
Me: "Ah..yes..of course."
but yes that too lmao
This was my exact reaction. Well almost, I was thinking, “Obey Wheaton’s Rule?”
Yeah. While I don't disagree with any of the things that Adam says in this video, I think his message is muddled, and that he places some of the most importance on some of the least important aspects of this situation.
He is a music channel so that's likely why he focused more about the theory
Lol
something the way she harmonized just scratches the right part of my brain, like almost a similar spot to where early vocaloid sounded, it has this sharp power to it and I think it just sounds really nice
What song are you thinking of? My only gripe with her harmonization is that it's too loud. Harmony is the bed. It should be heard, but not overpower it (overharmonization for example). If you really want to be strict about it, the harmony is not in the original piece and that's why it sounds "bad".
ur so right omg
Do not compare that to Vocaloid.
@@AllyFin don’t tell me what to do
The "Shoernberg harmonies" killed me, because I knew what was coming as soon as I saw it, but it still hurt all the same.
now I actually kinda like the dissonance and I'm not even saying this is because of my grotesquely large brain and high IQ with an appreciation for advanced harmony
Hmm yes I can tell your brain is humongous
Cuz you need all that bulk to play video games 😎
Okno jk
Same, except for the last part
Edit: jk
Must be a joke hey? No ones that vainglorious are they
@@BehappyBhairava Yes, it's a joke, my word.
It’s not advanced harmony anyway lmao.
It cannot be stressed enough that she was harassed for this. That is the takeaway here, that people will relentlessly attack you for doing what you love and you will often be powerless to stop them.
Just because she was harassed doesn't mean we all need to enjoy her harmonization though.
I think it's almost always worth keeping harsh opinions to oneself. But let's not be naive... the internet doesn't agree. Face-to-face, people whose songs (or art, poetry, etc.) I witness are probably connected to me socially. If I create tension with them, I experience tension myself. The internet isn't like this - we can create tension with random strangers and walk away from it scot-free. Everyone ought to know this. The people of the internet do not love me or care about me. They have no stake in my wellbeing. They are not incentivized to keep things civil or friendly. They are at liberty to disclose harsh opinions the likes of which they would not share in a real-world encounter. Perhaps they dislike having to repress their tongue in reality, and find relief using the internet as an outlet for their harsh opinions.
It's no wonder internet encounters are often highly distinct from face-to-face encounters. We can cast our own severe judgement at those who are harsh online, but I think this is often a purely self-serving activity. It's no wonder the internet is the way it is. The people who make it this way are not accountable, nor can we rehabilitate them. They don't care about our judgement, or they don't notice it, or they're not smart enough to understand it, or they relish the excitement of it, or they relish the attention, or they relish the opportunity to emotionally impact yet another stranger.
Those whose message here resembles "people should stop being mean online" - I wonder if you are seriously assessing (or invested in) the effect that your action here has on achieving your desired outcome?
I'd like for you all to check out adam neely's other video here: czcams.com/video/k3iDKsjSiIQ/video.html - the section I'm interested in starts at 2:56 mark, where adam is asked his opinion on a chord progression. At 4:37, he says "it sounds like a mistake to me". At 5:49 he says *make whatever artistic decisions you would like but an audience is going to listen to them with the expectations that come from genre and style* - this leaves me wondering why he seems reluctant, in this video, to simply accept that an audience rejected a decision based on their expectations.
Lastly I want to make it absolutely clear: it saddens me that people treat each other so harshly on the internet (or anywhere).
@@gershommaes902 but not liking the harmony doesn't give you any reason to harass her though
@@gershommaes902 not liking her harmony is not a pass to harass her though
@@grecco4037 @q2 @grecco of course not, I hope I didn't imply such a thing! :)
@@gershommaes902 yeah, i was just pointing out something else!
The dissonance makes really enhances the song’s bittersweetness. It’s a song about romance, saying that the singer will stay with their love until the end, but it also talks about atom bombs and armageddon. This clashing of themes, makes the dissonance really fit the song. I absolutely love it.
i really love this harmony, really fits the song.
I'm not exactly sure why, but you talking about parallel fifths with so much passion gave me goosebumps lmao
Damn, I love jazz
"Jake, lunch is ready! Get down here!"
"Mom! I'm busy enforcing European standards for polyphonic aesthetics on Tik Tok!"
Fr
To be fair all of europe has a quite diverse sound. From bulgarian like in the video. To hungarian. Greek. Spanish. Just a whole lot of sounds. I think a "germanic" sound is what most westerners think sounds good
F*ckn Jake
@@larsheuker that was informative, thanks
this made me cackle 😂
It’s important to remember that most TikTok users are children, and children have a tendency to be mean and under-educated.
I hope that poor girl sees this video so she knows the Internet isn’t all hate
I agree, but you see them a lot CZcams too. Like the comments from twosetviolin's fanbase on any video with violin(played in an "unconventional" or historic manner) and over 10,000 views.
@@starsocks4736 Children are awesome, Children (on Tiktok who use the comment section) are awful
@@starsocks4736 I didn’t think about how generalized my comment was until you said, you’re absolutely right, I apologize.
@@starsocks4736 have you spent time with children lol??? Kids can be absolute jerks because they haven't developed the emotional maturity to have appropriate levels of response to things. If they don't like something isn't the worst thing ever. If a person is bad, they're the worst person ever. They haven't yet learned to think "I don't like that but it's not a big deal."
That's bullshit. Children are definitely not the majority of TikTok, nor solely the reason of it's toxicity. I've seen much of said toxicity in every platform over the years, specially CZcams. That's just people being assholes
I think most people are used to westernized music, which mainly focuses on 2 emotions: happy and sad. However, being able to enjoy music that doesn't necessarily make you feel satisfied is satisfying in of itself, and provokes another emotion not many people are used to, hence why tiktokers describe it as "wrong"
People who bullied this girl are the type to turn on the pop music radio station with its 3 songs in rotation and think that its fire 💀💀
They probably would eat nuclear shit for DJ Khaled
The phrase "correct harmony" in any context just annoys me to no end
same thing as saying "you have the wrong opinion"
"correct" anything in music is pretty hard to listen to people talk about.
Correct for the song maybe, correct for a specific genre maybe, correct overall? Never.
its an empty phrase because harmony is not a singular answer. this is phrase is of course used to describe the intervals that sounds better according to the maker. harmony is an opinion not a fact. and in my opinion it sounds pretty good the way it is.
Oh well, using that particular phrase instantly shows you know S**T.
I take it you are annoyed by Western classical music up until Debussy, then.
That harmony is haunting, it really fits the tone of the song. She's honestly just 1 or 2 db too loud and otherwise that dissonance would sit really well
Best of all, I'm pretty sure TikTok allows for "mixing" of audio... all this would've taken for a frankly perfect duet is a reupload with her volume slider like, 5-10% down lol
Very good point, exactly what i thought too
Agreed. When I first heard it, it threw me off because of the sudden loudness of the audio- especially when I saw Tiktoks using the cover that, at the time, I didn't know about and wasn't expecting to hear. I do like it, but yeah, I do think it would be better if the volume was lowered.
i disagree so strongly it makes my stomach hurt
Yeah that was my thought. If she was a bit under the volume for the original it would mix a bit better
The dissonance really fits the vibes of as the world caves in, I don’t know how people hate it!
i dont think people are against dissonance as a whole with the song, this all started because the glasses girl sang the dissonance very "interestingly" that didnt rlly blend with the song, her voice is still pretty awesome though.
Her harmony sounds metal as fuck, it's great. Needs some metal backing instrumentation
"western European polyphonic aesthetics are being relentlessly upheld as what is 'good' or 'correct' on social media"
** every tiktok user has left the chat
But is Adam's explanation as to why it is sufficient?
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer yes, yes it is.
@@johnangelfritzbaylon5327 How? Because they are all informed by a meta-narrative that supports white supremacy? How does he know?
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer nah, just they're unintentionally holding on to what was enforced thousands of years ago. Hes just theorizing anyway, because none of those people who say it's bad can even say why anhway
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer it's not "bad" because it's bad, it's "bad" because it doesn't conform to rules that people have grown up with and had their tastes shaped by. And when they hear something that steps outside of that, instead of going "oh cool" or "oh weird" they act like she's in the wrong, that the music is objectively Incorrect
the broader point is that some white european dudes hundreds of years ago decided what was correct/good and what wasn't, and their rules are still embedded in musical culture today. To the point where people with or without theory knowledge hanging out on tiktok are rejecting anything that doesn't follow those rules or fit with that style, all being the music police
I’m so shocked that people are upset over harmony. The harmony she sang was such a standard cadence used in musical theater it sounded completely natural to me.
the industrial revolution and it's consequences; the main one being the internet revolution
In the immortal words of George Carlin: "Imagine how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." You shouldn't be shocked by idiots on the internet anymore, basically.
Idk it didn’t blend. Something was off. Maybe the volume of the two videos? It’s just the “lie with” that I can’t get
@@leviathan5908 that was my favorite part lol! it’s so cool how different brains interpret sounds in positive/negative ways
@@leviathan5908 it sounded great to me. Nothing was off.
Thank you! Enjoyed this break down.
My ears happens to LOVE the dense clusters! 😬
dissonance is a special thing. Our brains immediately pick it out in a song but when it resolves into harmony its an insanely powerful transition
It's chilling really
nah, it´s a cultural thing. People in Indonesia loves "beating" notes, the instruments are tuned in a way that they have dissonances less than 1/4 of a tone, so the people hear the "beats" between two notes when 2 musicians play at the same time. And of course their scales are different (the same happens with Arab or Turkish music and the maqam system. For westerns ears it sound "out of tune")
ah yes, the internet, where people willingly start drama over others living their lives
God, tell me about it
the internet is also a place where people like Adam talk about subjects like this and spread their passion and awareness about such singers
No.
Yo omicron love u
Btw stop commenting on nusic theory videos and star uploading vids😠🤕
Well, she ain't living her life, she uploaded it to the internet. When you put something out in the public, you better expect at least a little negative feedback, especially if you're doing something against the cultural norms or whatever.
How does this man just keep saying fifty shades of swag with a completely straight face-
Literally my thoughts as I watch the whole vid
and chickenthighs 😂😂
My brain loves and hates it, I suppose I don’t like the harmony itself but the mixture of the two voices together makes me like it
That harmony is really beautiful. Like, it's so crunchy that I love the feel
The brilliant musician who taught me improv singing said that any note, confidently sung, is part of the chord. It may be an unexpected chord, but that doesn't matter.
That is a great plan and big mood
Big fan of jazz I take it lol
Welcome to Jazz
You're doing Good, Craig.
i learned something close to that from my old guitar teacher and its if you play the "wrong note" intentionally they will think its intentional and mixed with adamy neely's repetition legitimizes works pretty well
the lesson here is that you should not focus on sounding "correct" but putting such a memorable performance that Adam Neely makes a video because of you
yes! LOL
It sounds correct to me tho
@@AtanoKSi well what sounds correct or right is imho still very subjective when it comes down to music, so best to drop the focus on sounding correct altogether, i guess
The performance wasn't the reason behind the video; the reaction to it was. Neely likes to pretend as if people are being bigots when they criticise people for being 'out of tune', an interpretation that is perfectly natural given the musical background.
@@brzt4256 timestamp showing "Neely ... 'out of tune'"?
Really interesting stuff here. Love music theory. The funny part is that this video was recommended to me because im addicted to Bulgarian Folk music/ chants. Absolutely love the minor notes they use and half steps. I recently caught some diminished dissonance too!
Personally (as someone who hasn't studied music theory in >10 years) the dissonance sounds unconventional but really good. That Eb/E natural sounds kind of 'off,' but it contributes to this sense of... resolution, almost, at the end of the line. That little bit of extra tension makes the end feel extra satisfying to me.
The worst thing about this is how smug all of the responses were
or how people just butchered music terminology they didn't know to harass this girl like-
Welcome to Gen Z on social media. This is said as someone from Gen Z, social media is fucking unbearable any time somebody makes something that could even be perceived as a mistake.
@@blarghinatelazer9394 It only seems like Gen Z because those are the people that mainly use tik tok. Seriously, go to any music video popular with any other generation on youtube and you will find smug people being unbearable. It's how a lot of people act behind the protection of their computer/phone screens. Human nature transcends arbitrary generations.
@@harryiii3361 It's easy to behave like an asshole when there's no risk of being punched in the face.
@@harryiii3361 boomers have awful takes on music so I agree with you
the Internet. where you threaten to kill someone when they sing a dissonant harmony
You wouldn't want an augmented octave to marry your sister.
The true nature of people comes out best behind anonymity
I shouldn't have, but I laughed
👏👏👏
what a lovely place huh?!
I think her harmony is so incredibly haunting, it adds to lyrics and mood.
This is a really old video, but I feel like a good part of it for me isn't the dissonance itself, but the mixing (or lack thereof). Because it's a tiktok duet, and not an actual mixed piece of music, her harmony overpowers the original in a way that really emphasizes that dissonance in a way that isn't very flattering to the sound.
Great point. I've seen another video with someone singing the same dissonant harmony, but it wasn't as loud as it was in the original. The quieter one was far nicer on the ears. Goes to show how important production and mixing is.
This is the most long winded and informative "haters gonna hate" ever.
Apparently he believes that they only hate women?
@@jaimeduncan6167 I don't believe that was what he said.
@@noahmay7708 IF the reason they piled on her is misogyny then yes, that is what he say. Misogyny is real, so for example, if they called her the c word clearly that is a misogynistic attack, or they say stuff like "only a woman" etc. He could have say "she was insulted and degraded including misogynistic attacks" that will be different and I guess (based on my experience) correct. The examples he quote were from people telling her that her art was ugly, and that happens to men and women, and if one put his art online it comes with the territory. I agree that not pushing the like button is more than enough but one know how it goes:haters gonna hate.
@@jaimeduncan6167 again… that is not what he said
@@jaimeduncan6167 I'm pretty sure he just meant misogyny played a role in people's hatred of her singing because for some people that'd be like the cherry on the top, for instance thinking she isn't as attractive as the girl on the right and/or her singing voice isn't as elegant as the girl on the right and/or her singing came off as obnoxious instead of attractive and other misogynistic reasons like those, and those misogynistic reasons further justify hatred towards her singing.
I liked the tiktok, dissonance helps give something an eerie tone and the song is literally talking about atom bombs.
Can't have dissonance in my straight pop background ballad about death by atom bombs.
its also about donald trump and theresa may being in love, which makes me as uncomfy as dissonance does so theres that lol
its so weird because reverb/dissonant remixes are HUGE on tiktok, its why the video went viral in the first place (it resonated with most users who got it shared on their FYP). The people flooding the comments with hate were just honestly jealous babies. I'm glad Neely decided to make a video on this
@@kamalei2888 nooo stop
Omg I'm so glad I found this video. I LOVED that girls stitch or duet or whatever when she posted it!! I always wished there was a full version of both of them
idk much about music but i think the reason i grimaced hearing the original harmony was because the girl on the left was singing in a way that seemed way louder than the right, so it was like she was trying to overpower the other girl's voice. it doesnt help that she had gestures and boyd movements that subconciously made me feel like she thought she was sort of better than the girl she was supposedly dueting with
Literally what? The way all of that is in your head and not a reason to be angry at her?
"Dissonance and weird intervals aren't a thing in Western music"
Jazz musicians: "Are we a joke to you?"
Jazz is a black genre, black people are categorically excluded from "Western"ism, which is really just code for whiteness on purpose through centuries of racism. So, yes, from the perspective of Westernism, jazz is *at best* a joke.
@@pastellexists Wut? Jazz was made by Black Americans so they aren't Western while Country Folk made by White Americans is Western? You do know Jazz and the Blues which you may consider "black" is the foundation of modern pop music? You would essentially be cutting out a significant number of genres from being classified as Western because they are Jazz or Blues inspired.
yeah, he was probably trying to say western european
western isn't euphemism for "white", but Jazz was founded on negation and breaking the norms, as well as bold experimentation.
@@pastellexists Not considering black Americans western seems kinda... idk racist? Tad bit
"nooo you can't use parallel fifths"
Me, as a guitar player: haha power chord gooo *fifths*
@Hooda the Antagonist in drop A, yes.
I got bored of fifths, so most of my barre chords are based on G and C shapes now.
@@rickc2102 fourths, thirds and augmented fifths power chords are nice as well.
Power chord goes 0 3 5
Very informational video, thank you!
What a beautifully insightful piece...🎶🎵 Thank you...💜
A musician's daughter... 🙏🏽
"Only Schoenberg melodies work for this song"
What an absolute chad
I'm a curious noob, can anyone please explain that clip for me?
@@cheesecakelasagna Well, I am not exactly an expert myself, but Schoenberg was a German composer who was one of the first to experiment with using the 12-tone technique. It meant that, in the piece, all 12 notes the chromatic scale are sounded as often as one another to prevent the emphasis of any one note. The dissonance that came along in his pieces also made his music sound quite 'unusual', in a sense. An example of this would be his 3 Piano Pieces Op. 11. It is an acquired taste, but if I was to recommend any of his music, it would probably be his violin concerto or verklärte nacht.
@@dzordzszs iirc that's enforced in Schoenberg's technique specifically by basically writing out multiple permutations of the 12 equal tempered notes. So when taking chunks of 12, every pitch will be included exactly once. I assume the joke is how atrocious this usually sounds to many.
@@jonathanscherpenbach9913 yes
If there's any takeaway from this video its go and listen to some schoenberg if you have not
Someone give this man his Bulgarian citizenship already, he's been working his ass off for it.
Bulgarian girls gave me Lost Boys vampire vibes. lol
Poor man just wants a tasty banichka guilt-free.
Jazz king of Bulgaria: Adam Neely
That overall sounds absolutely amazing, I love it so much
i'm from south Romania bordering Bulgaria and whenever i hear people singing dissonance, especially in the eastern orthodox church and folk music, it is a nostalgic experience. i think that people in the west should open their ears up to the rest of the world because while the music of the west is beautiful in its own right, so is the music of every other continent. i love these kinds of videos that educate people about what music is considered beautiful in other cultures. when people enforce a certain western standard like this, it makes people from other cultures feel excluded and marginalised, but ultimately no one should face bullying for expressing themselves through music.
I read the title as “tiktok and discourse do not mix” which is completely different but equally if not more correct
True lol
@Tournel Henry because of ADD brains like mine. I hate it, but it's who I am xD
"Every single note can go with e very single chord" - Jacob Collier
omg that video was so great
Yup, its not untrue. I guess thats one reason why so many of his fans tend to be musicians themselves. He has grown on me quite a bit, though his extreme genius was NEVER in question. A rare case where being such a know it all is mostly a good thing. 😂 & I had always thought my theory was "pretty solid" till I discovered JC.
@@realcygnus hes dope. Makes me wanna learn music theory 🤔
yes and no
@@yukitakimoto1668 No and Yes
The first time I heard the harmony I didn't really like it very much. Nowadays whenever I hear the cover I can't help but hum it along to it. To me as someone who mainly listens to pop music, I definitely couldn't appreciate it at the start, but it's also interesting and stands out a lot. I like it. Thank you for breaking the reasons down, it's great to understand why I felt that way.
There was an episode of Regular Show that relates to this. It was the battle of Gary vs David where they each played a melody at each other. Towards the end, Gary played heavy handed dischords, which David proclaimed as impossible. Gary simply replied with "Nothing's impossible... through music." It's a unique message that what sounds good is subjective and rules often provide structure to a restrictive degree.
"Like they're singing TO each other."
Yes! It sounds like a chaotic love duet from something dark and unsettling. Almost like a Sondheim duet turned up to 13. They're saying the same words, but somehow inflecting the sentiment differently, and something is just *off* about it.
It reminds me of those relationships when partners think they're on the same page but neither realizes yet that they're saying the same things but meaning something different- it's kind of an eerie subtle meaning
YES there is something very Sondheim to it! Eerie & sentimental at the same time.
Matches the seemingly sweet but ultimately dark lyrics as well. Without this harmony, it's just too sweet and typical.
i immediatly thought of a relationship dynamic in which one girl is soft and delicate and the other is dark and brooding. to me it definitely sounded like they were addressing each other. it definitely has that "beautifully tragic" sound
It is an emotionally rich interpretation: I really love this idea.
I'm just impressed that she could absolutely LAZERBEAM an E natural and a D natural in a C minor chord. It makes me sad that an alto singer with such a strong sense of pitch would get bullied like that.
It used to be that the point of art was to depict beauty. Now, music, architecture, fashion, and literature depict ugliness and they tell us we’re rubes for preferring consonance.
@@SwordsmanRyan it's in human nature to want to be different or unique. Repeating something again and again gets really boring after a while. Art was always subjective
@@SwordsmanRyan You're not a rube for preferring consonance.
You're definitely a rube if you think the purpose of art is to be pretty, though.
@@SwordsmanRyan If you think that humans should do art for the sake of it being “pretty” according to the current society's perspective, then shits gonna be hella disappointing for you.
ah, you know. People are trash, can't let other folk live their dang lives. Not liking somethin is not an excuse to harass random people on the internet but Tik Tok didn't get the memo
this video is filled with so much info and thats so awesome
Thanks for another incredible video, sir.
i think that her harmonies, especially during "atom bomb locks in," were fantastic
i agree with the point that her vowels are very wide and that she's overwhelming the main melody, but the harmonies themselves are not the problem
Yes i agree
yeah, i think it went hard af. super powerful stuff
I was trying to put that into words, thanks for doing it for me 4 months in advance!!
Yeah I personally dont enjoy the first part of the harmony, but the end is fantastic.
also it's not meant to be a pro quality singing job, just for fun.
"girl who passed music theatre classes with 100% here" "just listen to some classical" Yep that's the way to get back at people for alienating a certain musical concept, well done.
typical classical music elitism zzz
I mean, there definitely is a truth in listening to more complex music and thus appreciating certain musical concepts that aren’t heard in most western pop music, wether that is in classical music or something else more complex. But like, she didn’t have to be so smug about it yyou know
@@iemand2612 yes I do know, that's why I made the comment. I love classical music, it's the only genre of music I listen to (bar one or two bands). I just hated everything about that girls presentation of it - as a reason to claim intellectual superiority.
As a girl who also typically gets 100% in music class, i very much agree that classical music, a genre of music defined by its emphasis of beauty, structure and balance, loved filling it's music with major 7ths, tritones and just general dissonant chords. Sarcasm aside, the girl literally had the whole genre of Jazz right in front of her, and decided to go with classical because it probably made her sound smarter :/
...and it comes full circle. Original person does something and gets shit on, so someone else comes to shit on them, and now here we are shitting on them. Isn't life beautiful?
Adam! Your content is like lowkey better than my music classes at a literal music conservatory lol
An incredible comprehensive deep dive indeed!
The harmony she added adds this kind of...finality to it, if that makes any sense? Like, just the melody sounds bittersweet, but with that particular harmony it really does feel like the world's caving in. I personally really really like it.
Yes, this is just how I felt when I heard it. I don't know a lot about music or anything, but her harmony adds such an edge of desperation to the gentle sadness of the song. I love that in places fiftyshadesofswag is overtaking the original. It feels like two people reaching out to each other, the original is delicate longing, while the harmony is anguished and determined, and at "locks in" they reach each other and come together.
Totally agree, I don't love dissonance in everything, but on a song about the world falling apart and love ending it suits it perfectly to realize in music form the emotions and make you resonate with them
It sounds lovely for me
@@PabloEmanuel96 this ❤️
EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING
when she gets to the "a-tom bomb locks in " 7:11 part it comes together so nicely {chef's kiss}, makes the dissonance well worth it. I dig it
very satisfying release tbh
Yeah, it sounds super powerful. My only "issue" is the "lie with" part, it sounds a little off to me, but I like the rest a lot. Tbh, I like it all, but the "lie with" part the least, although it's growing on me whenever I hear it. ~~Although the way she moves her mouth as she's singing looks funny~~
@@konstant_ly for me it's just when she sings "that I'', it really sounds like she's out of tune (not because it's dissonance, it really is pitchy). Also, her voice is too loud and too sharp so it doesn't blend well
Right, I think its more about that payoff on the release and pushes through so perfectly.
That's the point of the dissonance
your videos help me enjoy music more. thanks!
I love this guy where TF did he come from. Love the way he breaks down harmonies. The fact that he plays bass is just the icing on the cake
it makes me sad that musicians are less and less comfortable with playing dissonance. your song doesn't HAVE to have dissonance, but why can't it?
It’s like everything has to be covered in sugar and sound smooth at all times
meanwhile metal can't get ENOUGH of it
minor seconds, sharp 7ths, diminished fifths, etc.
I've seen metal people add "dissonance layers" on top of their riffs as well; so
woo!
because it sounds like literal shit?
if music didn't have ANY dissonance, there would basically be no point in listening to it at all...
@@expilectakunai difference between dissonance and trash
*Adam:* “Does this harmony sound good to you?”
*Me:* Yes.
No but for real 😂
I didn't mind it
The video ends
@@lad9732 i liked it a lot
ikr? its fucking beautiful
This video unlocked harmony in a complete new way to me. Thanks!
Dissonance has always been comforting to me. Just a celebration of the rougher things in life. I thought this harmony was beautiful
I got no idea why but the "bomb locks in" part of the harmony brings a tear to my eye, sounds so beautiful and sad at the same time. This shit is spicy in the best way possible i dont understand why people would bully someone over this wtf
yeah that’s my favorite part too!! so haunting.
it’s gorgeous
Probably because it’s not “haunting” in a subtle way but sounds like it’s trying to achieve that effect in a very obvious and ham-fisted way. Of course nobody deserves to be bullied, of course dissonance can lead to beautiful music, of course we should praise people who strive to make art… but this tiktok was nothing special and I found it annoying after the third listen. I’ll defend the girl for being brave enough to put herself out there, but not for making good music.
@@charliesaint you sound like if somebody touched you, your skin would melt at the point of impact
@@solarprogeny6736 not very popular, are you
@@charliesaint I don't think "you're not very popular" is an exhortation you can reasonably make after writing a whole paragraph about how a Tiktoker's harmony wasn't subtle enough for you.
The “lie with” part sounds not so good but the “as the atom bomb locks in” part just wow. The dissonance made it sounds like the song was being ripped apart, in such a crazy emotional contextual way . Its like song is being ripped apart as the world caves in (roll credits, i said the thing)
What’s wrong with the first part??
That's exactly what I was thinking and I completely agree with the video that she isn't singing in the same style as the cover artist is. Her voice is more coarse, and while on its own I think it holds intense emotion, once combined it gives this very disjointed feeling. In the second verse her singing with the cover aligns and I think shows what the dissonant cord can really bring to the table.
4:39 explains why you feel that way, "lie with" feels a lot spicier
I like all of the parts
@@OskarSvan loud and annoying
This was such a good topic and searching for the Bulgarian choir I discovered Vasilikian Astasiou's Amalgamation Project and I will be forever grateful!
Thank you for taking time putting into usable language musical sensibilities that are hard for us casuals to describe.
when she first enters the harmony, i cringe a bit, but once she starts getting into it i LOVE IT- so much so the original tik tok feels strange without her voice in it? a rollercoaster with every listen i think its great
Yeah, when she gets to "atom bomb" it sounds great, idk what it is about the first part that is hard to listen to. Maybe she's singing a bit harshly? The last part is hauntingly dissonant in a cool way.
Repetition legitimises
Repetition legitimises
Repetition legitimises
Hey give me your thoughts on this. What if she stayed on that one note she sang during 'lie' for 'with'? and then flit to a D, maybe?
@@esined2386 not sure if u meant me but i personally dont know anything about keys/notes/whatever u call it so i have no idea how that would sound :( but "lie with" is the only part that sounds pretty bad imo so maybe it would make the whole thing go together better? less of a clash?
@@chloe2270 Haha I left that comment out for anyone who'd give their thoughts! I'll try it out on the piano and see how it goes or smthn
Please dive more into Bulgarian choirs and pieces. And Armenian! Like Komitas
Let's upvote this comment, please
And Georgian polyphony! Stravinsky's favourite.
Yes please!
Yes pls
Aram Khachaturian!
thank you for sharing this vital message