Whiplash (as reviewed by a jazz musician)
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- čas přidán 19. 11. 2018
- Whiplash was a great movie that got jazz wrong - admittedly in subtle ways. Come join me in this half hour (!) exploration of how the movie portrays contemporary jazz culture in NYC.
AWESOME blog post by Ethan Iverson about Whiplash and Buddy Rich
ethaniverson.com/rhythm-and-b...
Interview with Justin Hurwitz
www.mpaa.org/2014/09/whiplash...
Peter Erskine talks jazz
• Peter Erskine | Artbou...
Whiplash Behind the Scenes
• Miles Teller & J.K. Si...
5-hour practice routine
• 5-hour major scale pra...
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Peace,
Adam
As a billionaire orphan who fights crime at night, The Dark Knight was...okay.
Lol
Say hi to Elon for me
Not funny
No
😂😂😂
As a meth dealer, Breaking Bad was . . . ok
i'm am reporting you to cops
Mazarin IV shut
@@jogolord8122 what's that supposed to mean?
@@mazarinivmikeoxlong-dedica969 up
@@nelsonnicholson6175 woah
When i saw whiplash for the first time, i was so freaked out that he was able to count 215 by memory and i thought at some point i’d need to be able to do that as a musician
I’m pretty sure what everyone misses about that scene is fletcher is just fucking with him. Like maybe he was leading or lagging a bit and maybe it’s something neeman needed to work on, but it was an excuse for fletcher to break him down and there was NO RIGHT ANSWER Neaman could have given. You can see it on all the other musicians faces, they’ve all been hazed by him so they all look away in discomfort because they know he’s just gonna scream at him and throw shit until he breaks down
@@swarthygiant1463 exactly. There’s more nuance to these details than simply being right or wrong, or realistic or not. Things are taken to extremes due to the extreme characters being portrayed- same with how he counts everybody in. He could be doing it an “alternative” way to keep them on their toes and like you’re saying, have any excuse to go off and “inspire greatness” through humiliation.
You don’t have to know that by heart right away, but it helps to know what it kinda feels like
@@swarthygiant1463 he was exactly on
@@swarthygiant1463 exactly
The part that got me was when Fletcher said that the other drummer ( forgot his name) dropped out of the band and went into pre med. Pre med school is extremely stressful and the fact the guy would rather be in pre med school than Fletchers class says a lot.
Carl Tanner. Yeah and then he said "he was discouraged." Really? Ya don't say Terry.
That is a good point.
@@acdexter3219 "the next Charlie parker would never be discouraged"
I've thought about this, and I think there's a pretty good chance that "switching to pre-med" is a euphemism for something else. Not only because it strikes me as odd that a guy who's been playing music for years at an actual music school would just suddenly switch to a completely different field (without there being any qualification he even changed schools), but also because we know for a fact that Fletcher is willing to lie about his students to conceal his own abusive nature (see: Sean Casey).
As a tempo, this wasn‘t quite mine.
Finally an original comment
While funny ish, the video is *actually damn good even if it sounds like a high school report it reads like an undergraduate essay*
As a kampf, this wasn't quite mein
Holy shit it’s general grevious
As a rushing, I’m not dragging.
when black swan came out, a friend of mine who is a ballet dancer made a great comment when people asked him about it: "Is not a movie about ballet, its a movie about obsesion. So is not meant to be analized from the perspective of ballet, but psychology" I feel the same about this movie. The fact that is jazz is partially incidental.
Yessss facts
Totally, the setting is more or less just a catalyst to tell the story
The director himself is also a Jazz musician, which is why he chose it for the story most likely.
@@ryanlioce4933 just like La La Land, he used the jazz world as a backdrop to tell a story he wanted to tell.
I just so fucking wanted to make this point but you did it already in the exact same way i wanted... well whatever someone had to say it
I played percussion for a elementary school band and Whiplash got everything accurate to my experience. Ive had my teacher throw a chair at me, yelled at 2 inches from my face, and humiliated both in private along with band mates
What are the odds of seeing you there
glad we both watched this video 4 years later lmao
real@@ilovelasagna5632
jesus dude
crazy seeing you here from a video 5 years ago
Ironically, the guy you called a “jock” was the actual recorded drummer on the tracks
Actually, wasn't it the guy who played the core drummer, Tanner? I read somewhere that Nate Lang (Tanner - the guy who asked Andrew to tune his drums to Bb) was the guy who trained Miles Teller.
Being passionate about niche music genres indeed doesn't always mean you don't make time for going to the gym. Now, that said, most of us don't make the time needed to get that shredded unless via the luck of the gene pool. 😝
@@moviemaestro800 you could be in any gene pool, if you want to be that jacked, that's several hours of training per day, or roids, + tons of food that a US student can't afford unless it's his priority in life and part of his training. At least, on planet earth, that's how it goes. In your imagination, perhaps you'd like to think some people "are born like that". That's cute.
I don't literally think people are born jacked, but there are definitely genetic advantages for certain individuals.
@@moviemaestro800yea like rodis
As a persons whose dog died, John wick was ok
Scorchu231 _ omg 😂😂😂😂
stitches, is what I'm on now 😂😂😂😂
Whose who's what?
As a person whose dog died, Frankenweenie was ok
*whose, *damnit*
As a marine biologist, The Spongebob Squarepants movie was...okay
As a marine biologist, Diamond is Unbreakable was... okay
you take that back
>:I
funny thing the creator of Spongebob is a marine biologist himself.
was* :(
😂😂😂
I think the scene of Fletcher in the jazz club was more of a way to show just how stuck in the past he was, and how mediocre of a player he really was. Which makes his motivation to force Neeman to succeed even more complex, almost like how a mother may use a beauty pageant to force their daughter to succeed where they could not so that they could selfishly live their dream vicariously.
On another note, throughout the film, I always saw Neeman portrayed more as an outsider to the Jazz world, clinging on to the idealized vision of Buddy Rich that he was basically given to him by his dad. The scene at the dinner table pretty much solidifies that aspect of his character, and how he idealized the past just as much as Fletcher does. Neither of them are willing to move into the future of jazz.
spot on, thanks for the comment
interesting take. i always just looked at it more simply and thought that the lameness of the music was to set the tone for that part of the movie: it’s like the “calm before the storm moment” since the movie has been so tense for so long, they were giving us a little break and allowing the characters to reconcile, only to reverse the tone again for the finale
Fletcher wasn’t even a mediocre player he just ironically enough played the very music he hated after Neiman got him fired
if he considers the typical starbucks jazz soundtracks as mediocre, then he should be able to recognize that he himself sounds just as bad if not worse. if there was a scene of fletcher being insecure or not proud of his performance then your theory could've made sense, but idk he seemed pretty proud of his performance. well-trained musicians are generally able to evaluate their own performance as well.
Coaches don't play
The scene of Fletcher playing the most bland jazz you could ever listen anywhere I believe was entirely intentional. But he did a great job at that! I felt like it was exactly the opposite of what he demanded from his students, even tossing in some unintended sharps or flats would have given it some more jazz flavor. It’s the ultimate ‘do as I say, not as I do!’
great comment
I saw it as fletcher being defeated. He’d lost all prestige along with his class. He had fallen from greatness and was left playing the opposite of what he preached because he could no longer preach. It just built more tension towards the final performance being a sort of last hope for his career before he fades into obscurity, left to playing bland, safe “jazz.”
Theorizing in-universe explanations for mistakes, plotholes, or other writing weaknesses typically are some of the less interesting critical/fan discussions of fiction. In this case though, I've found them pretty intriguing. Given the rest of the original soundtrack, and other mistakes especially things like having young people idolize someone who even the fustiest, most uncreative stick-in-the-mud ancient old fogey would have regarded as more of a normie celebrity than a pioneer, it seems pretty unlikely that this was deliberate. The jazz Fletcher played there, though, is so very egregiously awful that it would have to be that he was completely broken as a man or a total fraud the whole time or something of the sort. And there's nothing in Simmons's or Teller's performance that suggests he's being reacted to that way. Hell, there's nothing in the audience's reaction to suggest it. And no way could he get away with that in that setting; he'd probably be dragged off that stage with a hook as the paying audience was on the verge of riot. Why not have Andrew find Fletcher playing in an actual Starbucks, in the Paramus Mall or something, if that was the objective? (Though that would indeed be a very different movie since Fletcher indeed didn't really fall that far in the movie; he is playing the JVC after all!) Ultimately it really doesn't remotely fit however interesting the theory is.
@@salvadorromero9712 I think it’s fun to theorize but you’re right in saying usually these little plot holes are just slip ups on the writers part. About this movie in particular I like Scott Neely’s (I think) perspective. He added a little line is his video somewhere along the lines of “this movie isn’t made with the intention of loving jazz but with the intention of making a good movie.” They didn’t pay that much attention to exactly what the characters were doing and playing and that made it lack soul, but I’ll say they did end up with a pretty damn entertaining movie.
@@salvadorromero9712Odd comment. You might be a jazz critic and hate the music, but technically it's just bland jazz. The entire point of the scene is that the manic, obsessive idea of "greatness" he instills in Andrew is nowhere to be found - just a man playing jazz in a club.
As a Jedi, Star Wars was...okay.
You really are everywhere aren’t you😂
@@rjohnson2018 when you have the high ground. yes.
Hello there!
Aaaaaay 420th like
I’m not gay or anything but I would put you on a dinner plate and eat you like a salad
As a professional memes critic, this comment section was...okay
😂😂👌
@@Carlos-np7du no
@@Znjed0 yes
@@Carlos-np7du maybe
You've won the war
I had a band teacher in high school who was almost as bad as Fletcher. Took 4 years to get him fired and actually sent to court for all he did, but he traumatized pretty much all the students he ever met.
It’s distressing that we’re exposing minors to literal psychopaths with power over them
We had an angry angry frustrated jazz player - he lost most of the better musicians over non-musical issues - haircuts, earrings, etc.
How scary
Sorry, but- I need to know what he did
Basically on the same boat, but my band teacher never went to court. As a matter of fact, the school district essentially protected him and he retired back in 2019. He essentially terrorized the students and there were also SA accusations. There was also a student who lived with him
I would like to point out the fact that Miles Teller played the majority of the drumming scenes himself, with only a few audio edited in where it didn't write line up. But I want to give credit where credit is due. He is truly an amazing actor and did truly amazing in this role.
Also, the dinner scene with his family, so freaking accurate. Especially growing up in Texas, football is such a big deal that the fine arts are often overlooked by people who don't understand them and therefore don't care about them.
Man, that dinner table scene, for ANY musician, anywhere in the world, is spot on. NONE of your extended family thinks much of you "playing in a band" - it's always simply a punchline for them, as in always asking you, "How's the "BAND" going?" as if mocking you that you're not famous yet.
I grew to HATE that question, and to squelch any further discussion, I would simply say, "OK" and that was it, never going into detail about gigs or achievements or songs or studio work, etc. Just shut up and leave me alone.
I don't know man I think that that is just a background theme. He was still toxic and a dick, totally wrong. Like ok he doesn't play in a high ranked NFL team, but it's still good. They accept their limits. Meanwhile for Andrew you have to be perfect, nothing less. This was the important thing of the dinner scene, the change in Andrew that wants perfection.
@@jondunmore4268 do not talk to your family forever.
For a supertalented drummer it was not enough. So overrated. I wish there were less scenes of him playing.
I thought music was a big deal in texas?
As a pastry, Life of Pi was....confusing
Jecho Adrian Ponce deserves more likes
OMG!!! Standing ovation! I almost choke laughing :)
Underrated comment. I lol'd. And possibly boofed.
I loled
Best comment
As a certified ogre, Shrek was…… ok
It's called JCPenney Jazz
What are you talking about? Shrek is love, Shrek is life!!!
You are one of the worst humanity's enemie
As a drug , do me
fucking annoying ass redditors please just let the shitty meme die
Jazz is not the point of the movie. The movie wasn’t supposed to make people feel inspired about music. It wasn’t supposed to raise jazz on some sort of platform. The point of the movie was to create a story about a person who just wants to be remembered. The problem with that is that throughout the movie he is losing himself along the way. So by the end of the movie his EX has a new boyfriend and his dad doesn’t even recognize his son anymore. The only one who actually gives him approval for his toxic actions is his toxic teacher who had been emotionally manipulating him throughout the entire movie and finally got what he wanted.
Yeah, that’s what he said
The point of the movie was to make you think about what the acceptable amount of trade off is to push people to greatness.
In some respects the "point" of nearly all good fiction is the characters and their human story. The setting is merely stage decoration. But the objection here is that it wasn't successfully made to fit. I could write a story about immortal insectoid scientists on a spaceship of intergalactic conquest. I could make that choice of circumstance for my characters. But if I don't then write them convincingly as to how a passion for the pursuit of science, or immortality, or a peripatetic or military lifestyle, etc.--these things that I have chosen to assign for them--would tend to affect the way one views and interacts with the world, I can't just say, "It's about the characters, bro. Just listen to the story I'm trying to tell." I have a serious flaw in my fiction.
So yes, when these musicians' criticism of the movie spills over into talk basically about whether the film is "good for jazz," as though they were evaluating promotional material or something, obviously that's not something anyone else is going to be interested in. But that's focusing on a marginal, least interesting part of their criticism. The issue of whether the story is being told true to the jazz setting is very much an important one, and certainly can't be dismissed by claiming that "jazz is not the point of the movie."
While I agree with you mostly, the shot of the look on his dad's face at the end is more telling. In that moment, he finally understood.
What dragons_red said. Anyone who feel they have a universal answer to that question though is most likely a horrible person and/or a moron. It's a very personal question that only a person themselves can answer.
There was also a scene where Andrew gets into a car accident. Later, Fletcher see Andrew injured and covered in blood. Instead of telling Andrew that he can't perform and must go to the hospital, he lets him perform in which he performed badly due to his injuries. This questions Fletcher's teachings and it showed how crazy and terrible Fletcher really is.
He is an abusive teacher who never reached the heights he wanted. I kept expecting Andrew to join a rock band as a drummer to spite him and become a star. But nooo.
@@falconeshield what's sad is that Andrew played right into Fletcher's game and Fletcher got what he wanted at a terrible price.
That scene is insane LMAO! The worst part is that Fletcher gets mad at him for playing badly because he was probably losing too much blood to be able to focus well. Just insane 💀
@@chickennuggetpaw A normal person would have told Andrew that he has to go hospital not perform. But Fletcher is insane.
Obviously Fletcher is a fucking lunatic. But I think what most people are missing is that it's at the end of the day Andrew who CHOSES to do these things. His "loved ones" have absolutely no business trying to steer him, just like Fletcher has no business doing so, but it happens all day every day for all people. Everyone has an opinion about what you are supposed to do, it's your choice whether or not to listen.
At the end of the day it's all on Andrew and it's actually just as inspiring as it is heartbreaking to see him come to a point where he stops blaming others for where/what he is/isn't.
As someone who laughs randomly, The Joker was... Ok
Jeffrey Wong u got tics bro? Same.
No, it was bad.
Those are actually seizures.
Herman Falck How what the fuck, how??
There's this guy that comes into the store I work in that does actually laugh randomly and I've wondered what he would say about Joker.
as a paleontologist, _Jurassic Park_ was... okay.
Now that, that comment... Bravo.
WOW I love this comment😂👍
Not nearly enough likes on this comment! :)
@@olivermitchell4968 im pretty sure Hollywood is NOT in the business of reality.......just saying.
@@ok-ms3ke the reason theres only one "accurate jazz school movie" is because nobody gives a fuck to go see a movie regarding that subject matter, as evidenced by this films poor box office proceeds and lack of critical acclaim. Although JK simmons is an absolute fucking treat in this film, makes me want to shit on his chest.
The part that Andrew played 215 was perfect and jk was mad at him to just break him into tears not because he was not good enough it was because he wanted to break him so he could control him in the future
I felt so bad for Andrew in that scene. He shoulda stood up and slapped Mr Fletcher in the face 💀
i actually go to school with the young actor for andrew. he told me he asked the director if he wanted him to play a paradiddle, and the director told him to just play whatever. justice for sam campisi!
Liar. My dad works in youtube and I'll have him delete your account.
As a member of fight club.. I’m not allowed to talk about it
HIS NAME IS ROBERT PAULSON
As a member of fight club... What's fight club?
HIS NAME IS ROBERT PAULSON
@@Kenanssss you forgot the first rule
as a member of
As a student, Diary of a Wimpy Kid was ... Okay
Same 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That series wasn't that good to be honest...
The movies however...
@@lifeontheledgerlines8394 shut the frick up boomer it was amazing
@@flolorm2349 Uh I'm 15.
Sorry if you disagree with me, some of it was pretty funny but some of it was meh. That's just how I feel.
Well, I hope you have a nice day (or night depending on your time zone). Sorry I upset you.
This is exactly how I would picture an actual jazz musician criticizing anything
😆
Dude really said: Acktually 👆🤓
😂 fr. As the the movie is about musical technicality and not the story and characters and experience
You don’t know who you’re talking about😭this is Adam Neely
@@idigmusic4405 Okay he's good at music but he fucking sucks at interpreting movies apparently
@@idigmusic4405 is he one of those single tear people? 😥
@@eliasmsv3156 idk the interpretation is fine imo
i think the reason why we don't see students talking to each other and sharing music is because the main character completely isolates himself, we see that with the girl he was dating, he is so obsessed with impressing Fletcher that it's the only thing he cares about. his voluntary loneliness is very important to his character
i also just feel like in the environment fletcher has built on his band any comraderie gets smashed. that kid that fletcher got into the band just to tick andrew was nice to him at the beginning and i thought they were friends, and he's the only one who said anything about andrew being all bloodied and hurt after the car accident, but because of the intensly high competitive environment friendship was never even on the table. also these are kids who admire this mentor and you're bound to mirror the behavior of your mentor at some point, which to me was the explanation as to why everyone in band who even spoke to andrew was so rude and had a similar language as fletcher's. people like him tell you to view your peers as either competition or tools, not friends
THANK YOU!!! you articulated my thoughts to that perfect
He sold his soul
Yeah, when the protagonist joins the class for the first time we actually see students going in with smiles in their face and talking and being friendly. The main character was particularly lonely and focused on success, and the film never focused on what other musicians were doing outside of those sessions.
My thoughts exactly
As a serial killer, The Silence of the Lambs was…….okay
😂 this is the best one
Lmao
@@foreveruseless1292 lol
Lmaoo
@@sinpi314 lol
Whiplash was never about jazz. It was about obsession and passion over principle
It's literally a movie surrounding jazz. Like, you can say it wasn't the most important aspect or theme of the movie, but it was objectively ABOUT jazz one way or another
But jazz makes up the entire setting of the movie. That would be like if the makers of Rocky didn’t know the rules of boxing, and then saying “Rocky was never about boxing. It was about underdogs and perserverance.”
@@shotgun6Xsigh
@@nate_stormI mean it really is like that for Rocky, probably the poorest example you could have given. The actual boxing in Rocky is like 5% of the film (the last 10-15 minute fight with Apollo). It largely is a movie about perseverance and love as that was the intended message.
@@restitutororbis964 that’s fair lol i was struggling to think of a good comparison on the spot
The chair hierarchy might not be a thing in jazz bands, but it absolutely exists in marching bands. 1st chairs typically play solos, main melodies, and the more complex music parts. They are considered the best musicians for their sections, and all members of the band audition for their chair placement.
I was about to say in high school the chair numbers pretty much ranked how good the musicians were
Yeah definitely. The people who always get 1st part are so impressive to me. Marching band is honestly so much more difficult than people give it credit for.
same with HS orchestra except for basses, we were always just shoved in behind everyone lol
As a stupid person, Dumb & Dumber was... okay.
I concur
"Kick his ass, Sea bass!"
this, this is the best one
The irony is that you are the most brilliant of all to come up with this comment! 👏👏😅
@Adarsh Sureshkumar - The irony is that that kind of statement comes from you. 😜😄
Mirror, mirror, tell me, who is that mirror I see in the mirror?
As a salesman, The Office was... ok
Can confirm
HOW DARE YOU
Remove ur mouth
BUTTLICKER! OUR PRICES HAVE NEVER BEEN LOWER!!!
which one
The part about music school parties is so on point. Back in college, me and the rest of the trumpet majors would pull our trumpets out at a party and drunkenly have high note competitions or take turns improving over a backing track. Why? Because it was fun.
I could watch that for hours 😂😂
College A Capella, which is of course an amateur recreational activity even at its top and most serious levels, is indeed notorious for attracting a variety of personality types that are there for reasons other than love of music. There's those who are there for the social aspects, comraderie and debauchery. And there are those who indeed are nothing more than generically hypercompetitive. The final episode of King of the Hill showed this type, with the junior meat grading team player who had no passion for meat whatsoever and indeed was a vegetarian, there just because he "liked to win."
Personally I, as a brass player myself, took the "sharp the ninth" as playing said sharp ninth especially sharp so it rings well in the chord. Some notes and intervals have to be played flat or sharp so they fit.
Exactly. This guy obviously never played a wind instrument lol. Meanwhile he’s nitpicking every tiny detail when he should have realized stuff like this himself and not assume that he is right just because he went to music school.
Biggest part to take from this is that it's about the Obsessed Artist, not Jazz.
So like Black Swan?
@@benl.4577 yeah
yeah, honestly I think Adam sorta missed the mark in that he based his criticisms off of it being a jazz film, rather than a drama. if anything the music takes a backseat to the relationships and dynamics between characters; yes there were a couple things that really threw me off (Fletcher calling a setlist a, "playlist," for example, like the fuck?) but otherwise I feel like we need to remember this was BASED ON musical education, not a direct copy of it. we even see the lower grade teacher being sympathetic and laid back with his students at the beginning - Fletcher is MEANT to be unfun and uncaring. otherwise the film wouldn't have a point.
@@heckicusdoomicuswizardus1382 i think you can criticize it from both angles
@tárrega is god prove me otherwise yeah
Neither of them create.
As an entomologist, the Bee Movie was... ok
Ya like jazz?
1.9 likes 1 reply say whaaaaaaaaaat
As a jazz musician, this film was extraordinarily accurate.
yeah the guy reviewing has no understanding of the actual implications and themes of the movie
Because of the fierce competition？
@@3n3j0t4no cuz dude, i have no idea how this man took a feature of the movie as a flaw
like how tf are students gonna be having fun if the mf is throwing chairs and insults?
@@hashly8521 idk he comes off as pretentious so I guess that’s it
@@3n3j0t4he knows what the themes are but he’s just point out jazz inaccuracies
you watched it on your tablet in the middle of a park? that probably one of the worst ways to consume a movie
-As a secret agent, Men In Black was...-
*_This comment has been erased_*
Finally someone that adds a twist
Ikr I've been scrolling for too long now
Underrated
Neuralized /Neuralised?
Perfect
This isn’t a movie about overcoming obstacles, it’s a movie about obsession.
The movie makes me think of how educators should strike a good balance between how they treat students ... do they get to be a tyrant due to their position as teachers regardless of whether their intentions are good ?
I would say it's about ambition, as every Chazelle movie is. Career versus love
I agree, a lot like black swan
@@88feji teachers that look after their own interest and glory are dangerous. They don’t care what they do to the psyche of the student. This happens a lot in gymnastics those young girls get abused badly , they get pushed so hard they often sustain serious injuries. All for medals and Olympic glory
Obsession and competition, like he said, a sports movie but with jazz.
Watched the movie on the IPad huh? Not really the way to watch a movie.
I was in a jazz band playing piano, and one of two players, so we had to take turns playing. Trouble is, I never had jazz training, don't read music note by note, don't follow the count, never practiced, but the band director was pretty chill, our music transcribing sessions we would play online js games, and he would sneak us out to McDonalds for breakfast. Don't even know why I joined that band.
well, seems like an fun time even if it wasn’t very highbrow lmao. sometimes all a person needs is a group of blokes to do fuck all with
As a blind person, Daredevil was... Ok
And how would you know, Blindy?
Oh yeah? Have you even WATCHED it? 🤔
That was good one
I love the internet.
He's blind, he can't read your comments
It’s not a jazz movie. It’s a not drummer movie. It’s a story of passion, discouragement, and grit.
And whether or not to Raisinet one's popcorn.
It's not simple. People's reactions are too complex for it to be that simple.
Lol it is it's super overrated
It was a movie about neurotic abuse.
Nothing to do with music or drive towards excellence.
In real life the band conductor (also known as fascist prick) would have been knocked out almost immediately. If not by one of his students, then by one of the parents.
Hollywood is silly sometimes.
@@PetraKann its not that hollywood is silly, but that movies in general tend to take a more exaggerated approach to things to make you feel it even more. If he was just slightly abusive and toxic, we wouldn’t have such a divide in how people see him as either an abuser, or a genius who pushed hos students forward. Its also telling of how people see the world.
If you're looking for another Jazz Movie in pop culture, id suggest looking at Pixar's "Soul". I personally really liked it for the love of jazz that it portrays through the characters and at the animators own hands!
Love that one! Cried every time watching it! So relatable!
I also recommend Walk the line with Joaquin Phoenix, great movie about music and passion, not just a competition movie like whiplash
Could have been such a good movie if it wasn’t just a kiddie film.
@@ninjireal i think youre still mentally immature/underdeveloped if you genuinely thought Soul didnt have mature emotional themes/undertones that adults could pick up on and relate to lol
"Soul" is such an underrated movie!! It should be up there in the charts
"It didn't happen to me, so it doesn't happen anywhere!"
Nice one, bro.
This movie is like 2% about jazz. The other 98% is about a) what it's like to give everything you are to the pursuit of greatness, and; b) the power dynamics between an individual like that and a demanding instructor.
But if you're a musician you'll get asked about it like twice a week.
Not even that. If you give everything you are to the pursuit of greatness you don't act like that. Because if you go full speed and disregard your own limits.. you wont become good at anything. You get injured. You burn out. You lose it.
If you wanna become great at something you need to pace yourself. Stay healthy. Make sure you don't burn out. Be efficient with your training. Make sure you recover well and a lot. Sleep a lot. Eat well. It's all about having endurance and playing the long game.
@@earlgrey2130 That is true. But isn’t there a point where being great at something like music should be the pursuit? Obviously, it is a balancing act between taking care of ones own personal health and giving it all for the love of music.
Well then maybe the setting shouldn't be a jazz school?? This is such a dumb defense. If somebody made a movie about college football and got things wrong left and right, people would point out the flaws, and rightfully so. But because this is about a much more niche topic, it's fine all of a sudden because tHe mOvIe iS nOt aBoUt jAzZ
@@Christopher-md7tf Except if the movie was about a QB and a demanding coach and it's brilliantly written and performed. I'm not gonna go tHat's noT HOw footBaLl WOrKs. It's a setting. Similar to Black Swan. The movie isn't really about ballet, it's about the consuming nature of being perfect. If the director claimed it was a musical or what the music business is really like than sure, but nobody has claimed that. Interstellar failed cause it claimed to have real science and then the main character went into a black hole and wasn't ripped apart. If space was just a setting then no-one would care, such as this movie.
As a filmmaker, watching a movie in a tablet, in the middle of a park, it's not okay!
I agree!
exactly!
Disagree lmao.
yep crawls my skin
For an introvert, even just sitting outdoors is a challenge enough let alone with a tablet and a movie!
as a drummer who does play jazz, I have to disagree with the whole if you're hurting yourself you won't get better thing. punching the snare drum was a bit extreme but I've had my hands bleed several times from practicing higher tempos, it's kind of a normal thing. a lot of jazz drummers get bleeding during concerts cos they really go for it with the adrenaline
I don’t mean to be rude, but that’s not supposed to be happening. Not saying that it can’t, but more that it shouldn’t. I too am a jazz drummer in college for music and play jazz gigs regularly. I don’t think my hands have ever bleed from drumming unless I accidentally hit a knuckle on a rim or something. The only thing that could cause bleeding usually would I guess be blisters from gripping too tight but most people only get those when they are first starting to build calluses. If anyone seeing this is bleeding while drumming please evaluate your technique really closely because that is not sustainable! No hate meant what so ever. Just trying to provide another perspective
In my culture many play drums, similar to congas but sole drums individually strapped onto the body, tape their fingers to avoid splitting the skin when they play for hours during carnival. I've never played to that level but remember how swollen and sore my hands would be after being part of a drumming circle. Perhaps because I'm an amateur but I always felt so much pride when I've injured myself for playing drums so hard. It's something I need to get back into.
Totally agree. As a guitarist who plays drums, I've developed blisters on my callused fingers when I started practicing more (guitar, but I'm sure the principle would happen to my drum calluses too), and I've probably ruptured a blister once or twice. My hands have just randomly bled from being too dry before, so anyone saying you can't bleed from playing drums should really just say "it's never happened to me personally."
Whiplash isn't even about music, it's about the American work ethic. Psychological terror, unbearable pressure, completely nonsensical instructions, no kind of work life balance whatsoever. This kid is at war now. "Being best" makes more sense to him than the music ever will.
I think that film promotes that toxic work ethic. All the toxicity lead to the big solo and fletcher smiling.
@@klinkclang Absolutely.
I think it has nothing to do with work ethics, American or not. It's simply about chasing perfection even at the cost of your own self. I think it's a misread, or at the very least a far fetched-streched to it's limit analogy instead of what the actual meaning of the is. 🤸♂️
Hey Adam, I am one of the guys back there in the trumpet section in the "studio band". You are correct that the guys with speaking roles were not pro musicians. I was the only "real trumpet player" back there, and the rest of the band was about half real musicians, half actors. As you know, this was a low budget film. One of the prerequisites for those actors when they auditioned for a role in the film was that they had to bring their own instrument. THAT LOW BUDGET! The other three trumpet players played in elementary school or middle school and brought their horns with them to the shoot.
Additionally, it was interesting that there wasn't a music supervisor present to make sure all musicians looked realistic while playing. There were numerous times where those of us that were the real musicians had to advise the actors how to hold the horn or not to have a trumpet mouthpiece in the trombone (yes this really happened).
Also, yes I sharped that 9. You can see me nodding my head in the film ;) Those of us who are real musicians had a good laugh about that line on the set. But hey...I just do as I'm told, I'm not the director!
Woaaah!
Thanks for the comment. Keep it sharp bro. Haha
hey Drew, since you were in the movie, maybe you can tell me who did the actual drumming parts? I looked everywhere and nobody is credited for this... i know Teller couldn't have done all that stuff himself.
Did you get paid any when you advised them on how to "play" their instruments right? Because you just gave something to a $49M movie for free.
Kyle Crane (a fantastic drummer here in LA) was the hands of Miles Teller for close up shots. For much of the actual recordings with the full big band though, I'm not sure. I believe they did a non-union recording session with local studio guys in LA. Those types of sessions are usually kept on the down low. They did not use any of the actual recording of the band playing live (thank goodness, it was ugly).
As a penguin, Penguin’s Of Madagascar was....ok
What about club penguin?
@@PositiveVibes94 ok
No
wow good one, did you come up with it yourself
As a movie enthusiast I can't wrap my head how anyone would wanna watch a movie on a pad device. Kudos to you for noticing everything you did despite that factor.
I know, right? And some earbuds, and then in a park with all the distractions.
Same here - that was the FIRST mistake this guy made in watching this movie. When you watch a movie, you do so AT THE LEAST on a television screen, not with the distractions of a public park around you. This guy is all over the old-school aspects of the movie, but maybe it's going too far "new-school" in the way he consumes his media.
Right?!? Headphones are at least the right direction of you don't have a good surround system, but should only be used as a last resort really.
Especially for a musician, who should be the one person that recognizes how truly important audio AND video quality is.
I can hardly stand watching films in the theatre anymore because my home theatre is so much better, and the often poor audio at theatres can ruin the experience for me.
Really great headphones can be wonderful too though, but he's not using even decent ones by the look of it...
i’d hate my life if i went through every movie and critiqued it to this level
6:14 Fletcher knew Andrew was on tempo, he was just trying to get under his skin to make him practice harder. He said later in the movie "there are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." Flecther was afraid that if he gave Andrew credit, he would get lazy.
imo all the explanation needed is that Fletcher's a raging narcissist
@@donlasagnotelamangia i say both of you are correct. He is a narcissist in a sense that he wants all the attention on him, but at the same time I've had professors that are strict and brought out the best of students of course not in an abusive manner as in the movie, as it seemed to be over exaggerated to strengthen the "tough love" theme.
Exactly, this CZcamsr knows about jazz but doesn’t seem to understand the movie is about mind games and manipulation. Fletcher is trying to make him better but is also fucking him up to do it. I played in band and I have to push this move because too much of this hits home and I get angry or start sweating. This dude was my band director.
@@fightingblindly There's a comment by Ian Mertz in this very same comment section (not this thread, lol) who says they came from the very same high school and band program that the director, Damien Chazelle, came from. I think you'd appreciate its perspective as it does highlight specifically what you're talking about, and why both you and Adam got completely different takeaways from it. In short, it feels like competitive high school band because it _is_ - a high school experience adapted to an "adult" setting, which is why a professional musician like Adam doesn't connect with it at all
So he's a jackass for the better of his students.
But he never says that, so while we know that, but the people he's teaching just makes him look like a jackass and making it not fun to play jazz or music and people might not want to play anymore.
As a person with hairy feet, The Lord of the Rings was...okay
very good comment
As a 5'6 male, The Hobbit was okay
The hairs make getting the ring off easier.
I'm not a jazz musician, so I'm not really is a position to say how accurate most of your criticisms are, but some of these points just seem extremely nitpicky and pedantic to me. Like really, an athletic guy can't be a jazz musician? Or some guy not wearing jazz style clothes is unbelievable? Your criticisms of the lingo seem extremely pedantic too, but like I said I'm not a jazz musician. Maybe every jazz musician in New York talks the exact same way, I don't know
While I may be a musician who now plays black metal on bass I do find this movie fairly accurate to my experience playing classical music on piano. I was forced into the competition of it all. I was forced to have mannerisms that weren’t natural to me as well as to not have fun. I despised it. All I wanted to do was play music, possibly preform. I didn’t want to be compared to others. When I switched to bass and metal for that matter it was much more relaxed. There was no rigid standards that I had to fit. Despite playing the least relaxing music out there I find playing it relaxing. When I played classical it was stressful and horrible. There was fear before the competitions I attended basically against my will. Now when I preform at local festivals and venues there’s no fear, just joy.
This movie isn’t so much about jazz, it’s more about the competition that comes with playing certain genres of music. Classical and jazz both have that aspect of competition and there are pressures that come along with it. Some may like the competition, but in my experience I have only ever seen it create toxic environments.
i agree but oh my god- not the point- i think this is kinda funny. i used to play piano and now i play bass. its like somewhat, piano players turn into bassists.
it's jazz dude not classical, the core idea about jazz itself is freedom not some dude gets iron jailed
As a Nazi, Inglorious Bastards was...okay.
Omfg this one takes the cake by a mile and a half xD
hahahaha- wait
Wait, that's illegal
Winner
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a Winner
As a film student, this film was... excellent.
No really, it’s brilliant.
@@weidnermusic
and you are what?
@@weidnermusic Damn bro you’re so mysterious.
@@weidnermusic Because*
PS I finished my film degree lol.
@@weidnermusic Will do buddy🖤
(Sureeeeeeellllllllyyyyyy)
I have never been more mad while watching a movie
Perfect review! I always thought they went overboard with the script! This brings great light to the film vs. reality...thank you!
Hahaha that last shot of you practising superimposed over the drum punching is a wonderful and funny summation of your argument.
Can’t wait to see Sungazer in Sydney!!
as a chemist, breaking bad was...okay
As a drug dealer, breaking bad was... okay
as a pharmacist, breaking bad was... okay
as a meth addict, breaking bad was... okay
Jai Cabardo as a math teacher who has cancer and then turned to cooking meth to pay for my treatment, breaking bad was... okay
As a geologist... They’re MINERALS!!!
It's not a movie about jazz, it's about striving for greatness. The sports movie analogy was spot on.
I think it’s about toxic relationships in the end fletcher won his abusive and toxic teachings consumed him
I agree with both, but it's when Nieman takes the reins of the finale performance that he achieves greatness, I can see it a bit in the way all other musicians perform that piece, like they feel liberated. In a weird way, this movie reminds me of "Training Day".
It's about both......
I’m sorry sports movie? Does everything have to be about sports??
Look up Bobby Knight and what he did to his basketball team.
As a non-musician, I’ve always kind of thought about sheet music as just pieces of paper and I’ve never though about the copyright part of the physical sheets, but basically those sheets are kind of like seats on a software license.
I went to music school for drums and percussion and this is one of my favorite movies of all time. I had some perfectionist teachers that would throw sticks across the room when frustrated, but nothing like the psychological war that Fletcher waged. I thought it was brilliant
As a queen, Bohemian Rhapsody was...okay.
lol
@@blackfordoblique1965 to be fair, the two guys who can say “As a member of Queen” actually think the movie was the best thing since the invention of fire because they produced it.
The real criticism is that anyone who can say, “as a filmmaker” or “as someone who knows the actual history of Queen and has no desire to rewrite it” knows Bohemian Rhapsody was shite.
@@wellesradio Perhaps. I think I understand what you say except for what it is I owe for the honor of your sharing the clarification.
I appreciate it. It makes sense. But I still don't 'get it'. But I also know how dumb I can be.
@@wellesradio bruh this was a joke don't need to dissect it like a frog.
@@aniketo-o4356 Duh.
As a deer hunter. Bambi was ok.
@Telespectador Pensante. Deer meat is good
@Telespectador Pensante. Lol
As a deer, Bambi was ok.
What about her mother?
What about Deer Hunter?
As a musician, I’ve noticed all the reviews of this movie from musicians have been so petty and pretentious. It would be like if boxers decided to review Rocky and say it was “okay” because they were not fighting like pro boxers, and wasn’t a good representation of boxing. It doesn’t have to be. It doesn’t owe that to anyone.
To me, this movie is the Rocky movie drummers needed.
Also, dude… do you know fucking stupid it is to hear “ha, a REAL jazz musician wouldn’t have Buddy Rich as their favourite drummer.”. Dude, what? Of course they did. What are you even saying? Even today, I look up to Buddy and he’s a favourite.
as Adam pointed out at the end, since this is the only mainstream depiction of jazz, it's fair to at least point out what's real and what's not
@@shreyassarangi6106 it’s not meant to be, and I hate that it’s being critiqued liked it was meant to be. It’s about obsession
@@Euthyphro are you people bots or something? Why are you so rabidly obsessed with this movie being about “obsession”?
Just sounds like you can’t handle somebody critiquing an aspect of something you like. Like you’re just astoundingly fragile.
As a toy, Toy Story was… okay.
As a Mentally Disabled Fish, Finding Dory was... What was i talking about?
You mean that South Park episode with Kanye West?
Criminally underrated comment
@@tokenofdevotion right?
@@tokenofdevotion not really
Best comment!
As a person who owns a carpet, the big lebowski was... okay
that carpet really ties the room together dude
Rug. I don't think they say "Carpet" once in that whole movie.
They fuckin peed on my rug, man
@Thomas Wake yygyyyyyyyyyyy
I find the music in whiplash to be beautiful as well as perfectly replicating each separate tone of each scene.
Thanks for this video. I had much the same reactions to the irregularities in the movies. Still and all though, I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. As a quick side note, I once got to hear Buddy Rich chewing out his band from a hallway outside their dressing room. It was one of the highlights of my life. :)
As Django, being unchained was... okay.
As a slave, django unchained was....okay
@@eyelashes5610 lol this is funnier and goes with the comment structure.
I wanted to add a philosophical touch so I wrote it from the perspective of Django and how for him even getting freedom was okay only. You see, I am a monk hence philosophy. 😇
@@minimalism2o2o yeah no yours was good too
@@eyelashes5610 Thanks Fortnite. 😆
@@minimalism2o2o Boy this thread is wholesome, and I love it!
As a mathematician, Good Will Hunting vastly overestimates how many girlfriends we can get and underestimates how many therapy sessions we go to.
Please, math, I can’t solve your problems right now, I have a lot of my own.
Looks like you would like A Beautiful Mind :3
Well to be fair Will doesn't really care for his gift, so he has more "freedom", if you like, to get chicks and therapy.
Odd number of "This never happened to me so it doesn't exist in jazz scenes" critiques. Saying some guy looks too much like a jock to be in jazz is an example.
Came back to this after 4 years. Still holds up. Again, so happy that the algorithm recommended this
As a Brazilian, Adam watching a movie on a tablet AT NIGHT at a park was... not okay.
"As a person from Latin America"
Straight facts
kkkkkkkk bem not okay
EXATAMENTE O QUE EU PENSEI
duas horas, com fone de ouvido, concentrado SENTADO NUM BANCO DE PRAÇA???
Exato. Realidades totalmentes diferentes
As a Professional Virgin, Rent-A-Girlfriend was...okay.
This is legendary
Fak yeah
This should be everywhere
Goated
Bruhhhh
I don’t think you understood the movie
you had no idea what you were watching brother private this video
I always figured when Fletcher was asking him to count a specific tempo, it wouldn’t matter what Andrew counted: he was trying to break him.
That's what I was thinking.
Obviously; he has a method of getting his target students lulled into thinking he's a nice guy and then he pounces on them by declaring nothing they do is good enough. The way he savaged the poor horn player who thought he was out of tune is another example. He wanted to hammer that poor bloke to get rid of him while making an example of him to intimidate the rest of them.
@Mark Donald In the world of this film, though, it's worth it to them to tolerate a certain amount of abuse if they think it will advance their careers. In real life this is more of an athletic thing, which is what Adam means when he says it's a sports movie.
They make that abundantly clear with the mistake from the horn player who makes the mentally weak, but better player leave to teach the mentally stronger player a lesson, because he's teaching via psychological manipulation, not pure skill alone. This scene comes right before that and makes it clear, and even if you didn't get it, he later says that that's what he was doing. To misinterpret that pretty much makes you mentally deficient. I mean, that's literally what the movie was about. Psychological manipulation and fletcher being the symbol of unrealistic inadequacy in perfectionists. It seems that some people have never been there and just can't grasp this as a result, like a colorblind person trying to see ultraviolet.
Ok was Memento, as a tattoo artist.
Niiiice
deep pull.
Too bad not enough people have seen this to appreciate this kind of clever comment
underrated
daaaaaaamn
It certainly reminded me of art school. There were a lot of sadistic professors who spoke to us like this and, yes, at times they became physical. It was common to hear students sobbing in the restrooms.
I was just about to write something similar. I made it into the best art school in my state. Many of the teachers were very cynical and pretentious. The students were extremely competitive. It was the polar opposite of my highschool experience where the art students were a very small group that encouraged and supported each other.
Man you really did nitpick "by heart" and "memorized"
As a somali pirate, pirates of the Caribbeans was... okay
Ok JOHN WICK
I thought you were going to say "Captain Phillips"!
As a historian this comment was.. not ok.
@@Astronaut-ve9sr why
@@sophiaseth2769 Because Somalia is not in the Caribbean
My interpretation of the scene with Fletcher playing in the jazz club was more to show that he was a hypocrite. Fletcher demands that his students constantly push themselves to reach musical excellence even though he himself as a musician is uninspired and amateur. I thought it gave him more dimension as a character since it revealed that his passion for teaching came from a belief that if he himself could never be a great musician, at least he might be able to inspire one of his students to become one.
He's a man trying to live his dreams through his students
@@suicidalloafofbread2009 by being an ass about it, got it.
@@Spherehead123 The boy is angry
Totally agree
Or perhaps he believed that had he been pushed by a teacher the way he pushes his students, he might have become a great musician?
My dad was almost the same way as Fletcher. He was a musician and he tried to teach me but he was a perfectionist and *absolutely lost it* when I couldn't play right the first time and no matter how much I practiced it wasn't good enough, it got so bad I swore off playing instruments. I still enjoy music and dabble in making music now but nowhere near the stuff my dad can do
I needed to here this. Thanks for your insights on the movie. Everything's on point coming from a musician myself.
This video wasn't quite my tempo
Badum tssss
Hahhahahaahahahahahahaahahahaa
Was it dragging, or was it rushing?
@johnson. Start counting.
@johnson. *slaps* was I dragging or was I rushing?!
As an executioner, the Passion of the Christ was... okay.
stohp
666th like
stupid...
@@Darthrocker06 no u
The movie isn’t about jazz. It’s about an obsessed artist. Jazz is just the medium in which Chazelle tells the story. Chazelle also said that he had a similar experience in a band.
Congratulations on restating the point he made in the review
@@MacanWigit congratulations on commenting on a year old comment
@@chiefinasmith the video was three years old when you commented. Your clapback values nothing.
@@MacanWigit seek happiness in your own life
Excellent review! Watching your review, I remain convinced that this film would have benefited way more from the drum corps setting than jazz big band. The physical demands, the berating, even the practice sessions (to an extent) all play more realistically. The competition would be there. People literally do earn their spots on the drumline. It would, of course, be a bit of a different story though. Drum corps is almost exclusively anchored to conformity. There would be no world where an extended drum solo finale would be possible. Perhaps the line could go rogue and write their own notes, but it would probably be to the detriment of the larger band. And I think the story would be focused more on the individual vs the group in an ensemble rather than the achievement of greatness at all costs ... or maybe a little bit of both?
Another interesting turn of tone for drum corps is, while many musicians go on from drum corps to have lasting musical careers, it's usually entirely different from the type of performance they gave in the corps. Unless they become a marching instructor themselves, they would likely move on almost immediately to a style of music with more longevity. Sure, there's transferrable skills, but like no one will care if you're playing shirley murphys or just accented triplets. It's overboard.
In order to properly analyze this movie, I watched it on an ipad outside with a bunch of other shit happening around me.
LMFAO😂😂 got a fair point mate🙍
Man, that triggered me so hard. It made difficult to avoid a negative bias towards him and keep watching the video.
"Five, six, and..." is not used anymore that much even for 7/4, thus it's cringy. How is this a point to be discussed in a video? Fletcher is clearly a very picky band leader, counting "five, six, and" only underlines his urge to train the band to the most possible "perfect" it can reach.
I really like Adam Neely and all of his videos, but that makes no sense to me.
nicely put.....
As a basketball player, Space Jam was PERFECT
FUCK! I thought this hasn't been said yet! XD
SLAM
JAM
THANK YOU MA'AM
Movie is not that good. go watch it again, its just no that funny/interesting.
@@sethedmonds5996 Shame on you. Criticizing a masterpiece like that. But really, it isn't a bad of a movie as people say it is.
Amen
I watch this video when you first posted it and I’ve just come back to it now as some of my students have been asking about this movie.
I absolutely love how you put it but I think they got more than Jazz wrong. And thought you mentioned it in a way I think the most fair assessment is that it’s a good movie they got jazz and music wrong.
Because lots of the things they got wrong about music happening in other genres too it’s not a competition etc.
You always post good stuff.
Adam, I've been looking for that video from a few years ago of your original composition with a small ensemble. I loved it but I don't remember what you called it.