Did Olivia Rodrigo steal from Paramore? (analysis)
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- Olivio Rodrigo's 2021 song good 4 u sounds suspiciously similar to Paramore's 2007 song Misery Business, but was it stolen?
Copyright establishes the legal authority for rent-seeking corporatism and actively impedes cultural expression, but yeah, she kinda copied her homework.
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Corrections/other thoughts.
1. Josh FARRO, not Josh Russo. I am an idiot, sorry Josh.
2. Mashups are a really interesting way of hearing the similarities between songs, and how important the instrumental arrangements are to the feel and "vibe" of a tune. Taylor Swift's We are Never Ever Getting Back Together fits...like, too perfectly, it's scary, but again that makes sense! Pop songs are built from the same template, and claiming ownership of any element of that template leads to some dumb places, like we've seen in recent years with copyright cases.
It’s ok
Damn! Now I want you to do a mash-up of all 4 songs 😂
To whoever has the actual stems for both songs... We need the non-AI made version of the Swifty-more mashup.
Great video Adam... There's a new lil nas x song coming out which sounds very inspired by good for u
Don't apologize to Josh. He doesn't deserve it.
"When you read the dictionary, every book is just a remix" Gandhi
Can confirm, I was the dictionary
@@josephjilson2152
I was the Gandhi.
"Ghandi had all the best quotes" - Abraham Lincoln
He interpolated that from Steven Wright.
"When I first read the dictionary, I thought it was a long poem about everything."
but you still can't just copy a book and sell it as your own
My first thoughts when hearing both songs was " the whole genre kinda sounds like this"
Exactly why this situation is so silly
As an avid pop rock/punk listener when I saw the news blowup I thought literally the same thing. I have a 4 hour playlist and you can look at any songs and probably find melodic similarities. So I totally agree
EXACTLY
FR pop punk music generally sounds objectively the same, it’s just the nature of the genre.
@@drawnathan I feel like you could say that for all the genres really haha, metal kind of all sounds the same, bubble gum pop all kinda sounds the same....
This entire story could be summarized as "People who listen to the same music over and over accuse music of being same"
Thanks, I didnt feel like spending 10 minutes watching the video
"These two teen girls singing pop punk songs about their relationships sound similar" just wait until you hear about Avril Lavigne.
Also good for you is about a fundamentally different experience with different tempo and rhythm and tone and mood but they share like half a melody and a chord progression, which doesn't even mean they have the same beat or melody or hit the same notes or anything like that, just that the notes move up and down in the same way, just like how a weed wacker moves in the same direction as a clock. It doesn't make these things actually similar.
I don't hear any similarities outside of that one very small melody moment and the genre they're in. Like what would changing good for you to sound different enough even look like? What would a sufficiently changed version be at this point? Is anything about the verses or instrumental similar enough to actually meaningfully change it into something else?
We're telling the same five story's over and over type beat
I think I might be a sucker for this chord progression, because every song mentioned in this video is one of my favorite songs.
Basically most of the pop songs have this chord progression. It's so so common. I wonder why people don't get tired of it. I love a lot of songs in this progression, but it's a cheese and unoriginal one these days.
Also Dragonstea din tei uses this progression
Ya same
doesn't misery business go bVI - bIII - VII - i?
Because it's a boring and generic pop chord progression
I can't lie, Paramore x Taylor Swift went hard
It really does. Also funny since Rodrigo already had to give Swift a writing credit for her song Deja Vu which is based on Swift's Cruel Summer.
There’s an amazing mashup of the Taylor Swift song with Tool’s Stinkfist.
@@MarioAtheonio I like the mashup of NiN's Head Like a Hole with Carly Rae Jepsun's Like You better. I Really Like A Hole.
so good , i love pop music weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
goes harder czcams.com/video/56Cqbk9CJz8/video.html
Paramore also didn't file the suit themselves, and they've expressed that they didn't have any problem with Olivia's song sounding like their own
She still 100% ripped it off. Olivia is a good person but unoriginal and totally manufactured. Nothing organic about her.
@@justmattisfine9876 dude who cares
@@sambkingmusic fr tho
@@justmattisfine9876 how did you watch this video and still come to that conclusion.
@@TheSalPic a wild guess but they probably didn't.
Costello's response to the accusations that Rodrigo ripped him off was the most based response I've ever seen an artist give to this sort of thing. Things like this are part of why I love that guy.
such great takes are almost…Beyond Belief.
bro even copied his first name off another artist so I mean saying anything but would've been a mistake for him
actually admitted it was the reason for the name.
Ya know, Adam makes a point around 10 minutes about what would happen if artists couldn't "steal" anymore. I have to wonder, how many great pieces of art were just left in a box somewhere in someone's garage or attic. Too fearful they may be accused of "stealing" someone else's work.
Nobody will blame you for not knowing if your replicating songs from an artist/band that is not well known/underground. You’ll never know until you try if you want it that bad. But regardless if it’s with extremely popular bands or artists it’s very obvious, and seems less likely to be a genuine mistake because of the amount of people who have heard the song. Especially if you’re cherry-picking/replicating globally known, top- hit songs from Taylor Swift, drake Paramore etc. (TS and Drake are notorious for having their work copied). Accidents however are really not as common as you think.
@@sarahko1014lol drake copies underground acts all the time, the flow he stole from XXX was pretty blatant. In the end it doesn’t matter though music is and always will be an iterative art-form. Iteration is good
When you remake this video in 10 years on why a new artist isn’t stealing Good 4 U’s melody, I’ll be there and here saying hi to everyone in the year 2031
Ayy, count me in too
Cool, i'm commenting to add to that cause
lmao
Count with me folks
I shall start drinking coffee until then, and I'll join you people with a cup in my hand.
My head cannon is “Good for You” is the other girls Perspective from “Misery Business” 😂 the one that lost their S/O
Ooooh, this is good
Galaxy-brain head canon! :D
(Or from that of the innocent cheerleader bystanders that get flattened at the start of "Misery Business"...)
canon
Canon
My daughter was listening to Olivia and the first thing I said "This sounds like Paramore!" I didn't realize how deep this rabbit hole would take me. Haha
I just arrived here! LOL
@@Cowboy1Brian me too
Pop punk sounds all the same. Misery business is not very original in itself
Something similar happened to me a while back. I was listening to Misery Business while chilling in the pool and my younger sister asked , "Is that Olivia Rodrigo?". The disrespect 😂
never compare the pop sellout rodrigo to queen vocalists hayley williams
When I first heard Olivia's song, i was shocked and excited to see punk pop back on the radio. I loved Paramore and punk-pop in general when I was a high-schooler so to see current teenagers have their own iteration is awesome. I don't think Olivia stole anything, she just made her version of punk music for her generation and good on her for that!
Agreed, sure it seems pretty derivative but I'm just kind of excited a song like this can even be a hit right now!
Definitely. I was like "This reminds me of Paramore. I love it!"
really not trying to be a purist but this really isn't punk
@@ayyguevara8448 that's why I tried to refer to it as pop-punk (in the vein of Paramore, fob, alt). Genuine punk is definitely very different from this.
@@ayyguevara8448 imo I don't even think it's pop punk lol it's just pop
god adam looks tired of having to do this whole shtick every time a bs music lawsuit comes up, but I'm really grateful for it, it needs to be pointed out. thanks adam
Both Adams in the video, even!
I was like, is there really new to say on this topic? Not really. But yes. It's good to see this topic as an excuse to see a few songs broken down all at the same time.
I've been noticing that lately Adam looks tired in general... also revisiting topics in videos (tritone, etc). Hopefully all is well with him. These past two years have been hard for all of us.
“Having to” ?
@@cabbycabby1770 'having to' as in i assume he feels a need to call this bs out when it happens, since hes one of the internet's most well known music communicators.
The way corporate lawyers treat music is devastating. Imagine fiction being treated this way. No Harry Potter, no Wheel of Time. Games? Say goodbye to basically every RPG post-AD&D. It's difficult to tell the difference between similar, influenced, and copied, but the courts lean heavily in favour of declaring legal ownership of basic human concepts.
And it's always for the sake of squeezing as much profit out as possible, because when record labels rip off smaller artists they often have little to no recourse because they can't afford to fight the label's corporate lawyers
As a spiritualist I do condemn Harry Potter, though. The author's heart isn't in it. The aim was to successfully cash in big-time and so she eventually (and we could add: what took her so long?) decided to copy the most obvious and easiest theme to accomplish that with: kids' magical fantasy.
This was then later indicated through things like a need to 'bugfix' the story because of inconsistencies, or as I can only speak for myself personally as someone who has watched all movies in a row, their continuous deterioation in appeal/quality.
Harry Potter is the epitome of pop literature, as a counterpart to pop music.
I also suspect that Game of Thrones was motivated by cynical motives, too.
@@Dowlphin dude what's your point? Every big novel saga has inconsistencies, and many big authors talk about how difficult it gets keeping track of every detail for YEARS.
@@Dowlphin by the way watching film adaptations is not reading the actual books so how can you have a strong opinion of a book you've never read?
@@omerkeidar95 Proves how rarely big business is fueled by loving passion.
The truly devoted don't make such mistakes. There is an inherent scrutiny when you create a phantasy world through loving devotion.
7:00 minute mark is the most important part. Chord progressions lead to similar melodies. Add in punk format and you have an even smaller canvas to paint on, so naturally brush strokes overlap. End of all the cases.
ugh. thank you for this. i'm a HUGE paramore fan but had trouble even seeing the similarities for so long. even though it's there a bit that's not the same as stealing. people just wanted them to compete bc society loves pitting women against each other. the band themselves don't have a problem, the fact that people are STILL claiming she stole from them is ridiculous
When you say "society loves pitting women against each other..." I think what you really want to say is women love pitting women against each other. Men don't really give a shit about celebrity nonsense...women take each other down more than anyone.
If you really can’t hear how similar the songs are, you’re tone deaf
@@Bluerock121 or the circle of songs u listen to are just too small if u think its similar 🤣
“People love putting women against each other”
Okay listen you absolute buffoon. Olivia ADDED PARAMORE TO THE SONGWRITERS CREDITS. She stole the theme clear as day. Give me a break. Are you tone deaf????
@@miwo4984 she added Paramore to the songwriters credits because they wrote the song she stole lmfao. Cope
My old piano teacher/songwriting collaborator told me years ago -- when I was routinely concerned that I'd accidentally ripped off someone else's song -- that "every song has already been written. It's just about how you decide to put the parts together differently to make it your own."
all copyrights belong to a caveman who accidentally made five holes in his uncle's thigh bone and blew into it
A guy i knew was writing a song with me about his brother, the words were original but the tune he was singing was just numb by LP, i scrapped it but apparently we should have kept it!
Watch daniel thrasher
@@instantlydemonetized5988 this comment just made me laugh out loud for like an entire minute, thank you holy shit 💀
YES!
We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together and Misery Business getting mashed together is a certified bop.
A hood classic, some might say.
I hate it twice as much.
@@callmeqt1269 why did this make me laugh so damn hard
I would love to hear a full song mashup
We Are Never Ever Getting Mashed Together then?
Back when I was writing, I discovered that the book I was writing was basically a copy of a book that impacted me as a teenager, without me even realising. It was a real exitential crisis for me as an aspiring writer.
What got me over it was and advice from a William S. Burroughs interview, where he explained how everything is a copy of something else, and the only way to make something seem original is to copy something intentionally. That way you have control enough to be able to hide where you copy something from. While if you try to write something original you just risk copying something without realising it, and thus you won't seem original at all.
It makes me think that when we hear these claims of some artist robbing off other artists, that's probably the cases where the artist were trying to be the most original. While the times artists intentionally stole things from other songs, they made sure to make it their own way and we just have no clue of the influence.
I wish people would lean into these similarities more and just did more mashups lol
That's why I love Ava Max, she samples a lot of classics but makes them new
My favorite pop song of the past few years is that version of Midnight Sky by Miley Cyrus that leans into the similarities between Edge of Seventeen by Stevie Nicks and itself and basically turns it into an official mashup of the two. It’s a good little tune.
Reading comments with vocoder was so hilarious. Every Q+A questions should be read this way.
That way you can make sure the synth and vocals are in the same key
@@alexaramen18 best comment right here
Sounds like GLaDOS
I think it’s extremely annoying…
yesss omg that was so funny
"Wait it's all the same song?
Always has been"
Studying music is basically that meme. Which probably explains why college for music has the habit of absolutely murdering the classes music preferences.
In Irish trad there's this common trope. At least in my circles:
When you are new all the music just sounds the same.
When you start to get it, you learn that every tune is unique and special
When you get really good, then you start to realize that all the music sounds the same.
Then someone inevitably says: there's only 6 tunes, only just played slightly differently. Also, those 6 tunes are really also all the same tune moved around a bit.
Black Sabbath was created off the bassist failing to play Gustav Holst's Mars. Culture is built on pre-existing culture, claiming you can steal artistic concepts like melody is ridiculous, that's just how it works.
@@plebisMaximus And ripping off Holst's Mars has basically been John Williams' entire career!
@@plebisMaximus all music for the past century is just a remix of The Planets, honestly
@@Miglow ayyyyy a fellow Irish Trad musician
Can we not just appreciate that Olivia Rodrigo managed to nail a sequel to Misery Business written from the perspective of the ex girlfriend? Genius.
Ever noticed that 'I am the sky' from AS2 is God's response to the human questions posed in 'like a stone' from AS1? get back to me when you understand. THAT was genious. THIS is at best a pale imitation.
@@thorman944 why are you talking about AS on an Olivia Rodrigo video? Two completely different artists and genres.
Yeah but it’s cringe when guys write songs about their ex yet praised when girl does it. Double standards
There are also cheerleaders wearing blue who are extras in the misery business music video!
@@thorman944 are… you comparing audioslave to Paramore..???
I tuned into this video expecting a comparisons between sections but was actually engrossed with all of the music theory and detail. Honestly, great content - keep it up!
I can't read a person's mind, but this feels like a subconscious lift. It's summed up quite nicely at the end with "wearing her influence on her sleeve." Sometimes you can listen to a band and think "oh, they liked Nirvana" and other times you are not surprised when a group started out by doing Nirvana covers.
EXACTLY
The more I dove into The Who, the more I found Green Day.
When I was a teenager in the 2010s I used to love pop punk exactly for that: because It sounded always almost the same. I just enjoyed the feeling and energy those songs gave me and I wanted It for the longest time possible.
You nailed it. I poo poo the genre as much satirically as out of my own egotistical superiority complex...but you're exactly right. That's the sound you like. And the sound is the energy. Though some other music may be more "complex" or "different", it often comes down to the same thing when it comes to preference. How different is one neo-prog song from another? One industrial song from another? One baroque pop tune from another? Ultimately we get hooked on the sound...the production...the pattern...the energy...and that's just fine. "My" music doesn't have the special sauce that gets you going the way "your" music does, and vice-versa. Legit.
@@nickmonks9563 Iron Maiden, Iron Maiden, Iron Maiden. Up the Irons.
That's how I feel about modern 80s and synthwave vibe songs. Also disco inspired. Sure they sound the same but its such a good genre to me that I'm OK with it.
Kpop is a big example for same sound lmao lets face it but we love it
"When I was a teenager in the 2010" weird flex
This is how I feel too, if I like a song then of course I'm going to want to hear other songs that sound similar to it. Imagine if we could only have one song of each type/genre/sound/whatever, no one would ever listen to music again
I think this stems from normal people not having classical musical education. And just because people are vocal doesn’t mean they are right. Song structure, chord progressions, and melodies have to follow set rules. When you narrow the field and have great artists pouring their souls into their music while at the same time paying tribute to their influences this will inevitably happen.
Never forget that you were inspired by someone to pursue music in the first place. I’m sure that Haley Williams and Taylor Swift are just grateful that their art has had an impact on such a talented young person.
I am super impressed by Olivia and you can tell that she knows her stuff from a songwriting perspective. I’m excited to see where she goes in the future.
They should totally do a duet together... Like at a concert... I think that's the musical version of hugging it out... If both artists took their music and combined it... I've heard a mashup and they work...
Olivia Rodrigo's music isn't my thing but I'm sick of the double standards. Bruno Mars' entire catalog rips directly from the likes of Jimi Hendrix and James Brown, and no one bats an eye because it's "creative inspiration" and "throwback." Olivia makes one song in the style of Paramore and she's a talentless plagiarizer because there's only room for one woman in pop-punk apparently.
No one bats an eye? We hate when he does it too.
Don't make this a sex or gender thing. Idk why people always do that instead of attacking the actual issues. Stop stealing, stop listening to stolen work, ignore singers who do this forever, until they stop and the industry stops allowing this as normal practice.
Plus, she's been accused many times for plagiarizing songs, so it's nothing new for her to do, stealing music.
Ig thats due to the age of Jimi's and Paramore's audience. People who listen to Jimi won't necessarily listen to Bruno and if they do, they are more likely to appreciate Bruno giving a nod to Jimi and not make a big deal out of it.
@@xxTHExxABYSSxx "We hate when he does it too" ok, good 4 u. The greater internet doesn't care though, I've heard nothing about this. And literally this IS how songs are written, it is PART of the creative process, I'm not sure if you're a composer or not, but if you are, I recommend becoming a little more open minded.
It's an understandable viewpoint but I do think there is a difference between Mars and Rodrigo. Mars puts out new songs in the style of someone else. Yes they sound like they could have been songs from an album by that artist but they don't sound EXACTLY like one of that artist's song. Rodrigo is just doing alternate lyrics to someone else's songs. Think of a non-comedic version of Weird Al. And it's not just once. Every single I've heard from her is a ripoff. Alternate lyric version of Kesha's Praying, alternate lyric version of Paramore's Misery Business, Deja Vu is just an alternate lyric version of Taylor Swift's Cruel Summer. This is a pattern.
Yeah Mars copies styles but while Locked out of Heaven sounds sort of like the Police, there is no Police song it could be an alternate lyric version of.
I suspect that part of the crowd calling things "stolen" is because they like one song and hate the new one despite/because of the similarities.
I like Olivia Rodrigo's more but she stole it. Whatever...
It's just nostalgia, people don't like when someone else touches "their" nostalgic thing they attack the new thing, even if "their" thing has done the same
@@yoo571 exactly, same thing happens with games. And it it sooo stupid bc it is art, the only thing that matter when it comes to art is if you enjoy it or not
@@lebarbosa9778 "she stole it" jeez, did you see the video at least xd
Unless you can peer into the minds of the people who composed/produced the Rodrigo song, it's impossible to prove it was intentionally "stolen". All creative endeavors are subconsciously influenced by previous things we've seen or heard or experienced.
I just love this channel. Its adicting to watch, especially because you manage to put words and meaning into what my brain is hearing and thinking but can’t translate to words that mean something.
I *REALLY* want a full version of we are never getting back together with Paramores guitar that was fantastic
Found one m.czcams.com/video/rtNfAvE2tDo/video.html
Despite all his faults, Shenker was right. Three blind mice is the only song ever written.
OTOH, Schenker was stumped by Stravinsky. That, alone probably makes Stravinsky worth listening to.
I think that Schoenberg had it covered too
@@joshuabroyles7565 Yeah Schenkarian analysis falls apart after a certain date in the world of "art music". God I hate the term "art music", but I wasn't sure of the best term to use here lol.
@@Morganstudios Modern art music turns over all 3 Schenkerian cards. But that doesn't mean the Queen was ever really there before 1900, either.
@@simonjgriffiths The funny thing about serialism, though, is that if you need to graphically construct almost any kind of diagonal pitch relationship, you can probably do it. In that sense, we should be able to provide about 12 different Schenker graphs for any serial composition, "proving" that it's actually in each of the 12 keys.
That taylor swift paramore mashup was actually so dope
It didn’t have to go that hard, but we’re fortunate that it did, in fact, go that hard.
search on youtube you'll find someone did the full mashup but sadly it's sped up, you can then download the video and slow it down to exactly 90% and you'll hear the proper sound.
@@HassanSelim0 bet
I honestly love it when music goes so well together, I like to try to mash two great songs together cause I think it'll sound great, but I've only made one salvageable mess cause I don't know how to mix songs, but it's still fun and everyone is making a much bigger deal about this than it actually is, all the music that has ever existed or ever will exist has been written for hundreds if not thousands of years, and we've found 4 particular chords that work so well together for an incredibly catchy feel, we've built an entire music genre called Pop around them. If I ever work up the courage to write a song despite the hoards of people that will point to the song I'm statistically guaranteed to end up "copying" without ever having heard it, I would be absolutely thrilled to hear anything that people make with it. That's what rock and roll is built on, and I'm pretty sure that's what all music is built on. We shouldn't be attacking eachother over this, it's ridiculous. Even if the song actually did draw direct inspiration from the other song, that's not plagiarism, that's music. And y'all who are fighting need to chill and maybe listen to some.
What happened to all your videos?
when i first heard good for you i knew i’d heard the song before even though it was my first time listening to it. i didn’t immediately recognize it as misery business which is weird because i’ve heard that song so many times
i think both songs are good in their own right. pop punk was one of the genres i grew up with so i’m glad others’ nostalgia for it is seeping into pop music of today. (same goes for nu metal. actually the late 90s-2000s nostalgia wave in general since i have a lot of nostalgia for that time as a later born millennial)
I think getting an original music is next to impossible. Art imitates art, artists inspire other artists. So as long as due credit is given, I think there is not problem.
The problem is that Olivia did not give the credits
The problem is, how do you give credit if you don’t even realize you were inspired by another song that exists.
@@yukiableful can you elaborate a bit more please ?
@@riichobamin7612 sometimes people just accidentally get inspired by a song in their subconscious, and dont even realize it, in which case I think its fine.
@@riichobamin7612 because you didn't discovered much music and only listen to mainstream pop
Boulevard of Broken Dreams itself is considered a "rip off" of Wonderwall.
I can’t unhear that now.
Böa's acoustic version of Duvet also sounds the same as Wonderwall.
Also "Your love is a lie" by Greenday
@@domdaddylucifer7556 That's a Simple Plan song, but played point stands.
well yeah, but Boulevard is such a great song compared to Wonderwall...
I absolutely love this video / video essay
It explains very well a lot of the reasons that modern copyright law and the hyper aggressive algorithms that enforce it in the social media age make me absolutely furious.
So many pop songs influence each other it’s such a bummer she got such grief for this.
literally since i was a kid i've had this fear that i would write a song that accidentally sounds like another song and i would be accused of plagiarism even though it wasn't intentional. so definitely what i needed to get over that was a precedent of aggressive litigation...
Can you imagine if we couldn’t use the same chord progression once a song it’s out?
We would run out of chord progression in a day!
That is why it is more than just a matter of progressions.These two songs have the same rhythm, vocal melody, and structure in BOTH the verse and chorus. You can at least expect a different verse if you're going to use the same chorus melody and structure in a song. At least if you have even just a little bit of a desire to create something different. This is no different than shooting a TV series with the same scenario over and over again just because people like it. It might be okay for people to enjoy, but as a music fanatic, it bothers me and deserves no appreciation since there is not even one thing I can call unique or new. These examples are also ridiculous because Bob Dylan has a very unique style and there will be no such argument in true artists' originality like Led Zeppelin or Nirvana. Because they were one-of-a-kind, no one bothered to accuse them of plagiarism. If there were no innovations in music, then why wouldn't people just make computers create the music, choose a pretty 18 year old girl to sing with , shoot an overly sexualized music video, and everyone would be happy. I just can not accept someone who is stealing a song and getting all this, like, love and money for it.
These baseless cancel culture plagiarism claims will only hurt artists. It will make real copyright/plagiarism issues harder to take to court if people start losing cases for slightly similar melodies. I’m glad everyone stood by Olivia on this one.
its funny cuz my friends will ask me to play a song on my guitar and be all "omg how do you know how to play a song so quickly!".. I'm like.. same shit different pile.. so I'd ask them what some I'm playing just for fun, and usually I will just say they're not right for fun so they can see how many songs are that similar lol sometimes I will get something in my head and by the time of the chorus I'll switch to another song haha :)
@@dana102083 keep those friends!!! Music scene gets real fake once you start making money.
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.” John 3:36
I've been seeing all these reels and tiktoks with Good 4 U.
Something in the back of my head was sparking but i could not figure out why i knew that song so well.
Until now. Thanks for all the info!
non musicians try to understand chord progression challenge (impossible)
I liked how you pointed out the "its not stealing, its folk" many of my favorite folk songs directly rip melodies from previous songs that were well known in their communities because then once you learn the words everybody could sing a long
''Farmer-Labor Train' and 'Grand Coulee Dam' are both interpolated from the tune of 'Wabash Cannonball', which itself was an interpolation of an ever older song. Similarly, 'Sinking of the Reuben James' is based on the melody of 'Wildwood Flower', but with an added chorus section. There are many more examples, but this tradition of reusing popular melodies used to be totally acceptable in the early to mid- 20th century. Then as music became more of a commercialized industry, there might've been increased pressure to make every new song sound unique and different.
@@InventorZahran I mean, the Alphabet Song and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star are the same melody, and nobody bats an eye.
@@TehJosh I always thought that was so it would be easier for young children to sing them without memorizing a large number of melodies...
@@InventorZahran It goes back even farther, into Christian church music - secular traditional and classical melodies were used as settings for hymns and psalms all the time. Like you said, it makes it easier for the congregation to sing along if the melody is familiar...
@@InventorZahran A lot of sea shanties are reused Irish folk tunes.
"Structurally, both songs are just Three Blind Mice. That's at least the Schenkerian way of looking at it." LMAO deceased
Gave me flashbacks to theory class in my undergrad...fuckin schenker 😵
rofl
lmao I was reading this when it came up
Can someone fill me in on the reference?
@@RoninWaffle Heinrich Shenker was a German composer/theorist who analyzed music in layers. Worth googling him if you are interested in how to understand how composers like Beethoven wrote symphonic works and can be applied to any style of music.
im honestly as interestded in this content as someone who would watch often but everytime its just so high quality, you do good work and just because i dont plan on watching much i really apprichiate when i do
I made one of my personal favorite beats around the time Unforgettable by French Montana and Swae Lee came out, and would blast it so much during the time I was making my song. It wasn’t til after I finished making my beat and listened to it a handful of times that I realized I had applied so many things from Unforgettable to help structure my own song and then some (I always listen to a bunch of songs and/or throw multiple different vocal stems over my stuff to help me structure my work and see how different melodies work with my stuff etc, but I never focus on just one song for the entire song I’m making to avoid things like this happening). They both still sound different enough to be their own pieces, and I’m actually glad it happened cause I love the way my beat came out and it wouldn’t have happened without me listening to Unforgettable so much. I’m way more mindful of that stuff now tho when I start a new song, but just thought it was interesting how I didn’t realize it was happening while I was making my song especially with how much I was listening to Unforgettable. I love music production but now I always get stressed that I could make something and someone can claim I ripped them off or something (no one buys my beats tho so this most likely won’t happen to me irl ha)
If you could just... do a full song mash-up of Taylor Swift with Paramore, that would be great. That sounded amazing.
Quick, somebody page Neil Cicierega!
I found one: czcams.com/video/4nMw4LTOCXc/video.html
I want the full mashup of Good 4 Ur Broken Dreams
Oh my god yes! My two favourite musicians!!
I'll uh... see what I can do with them. No promises though
Wow, my jaw dropped at the greenday overlay, on their own I couldn’t tell they were similar at all!
Hum those tones everyday and youll realize 90% of your favorite pop/rock songs use those same tones.
@@ThatFilmisGnarly that
Yep. Yep.
That's the beauty of music theory kiddo!
This was an awesome video! I am going to use this video for my The Business of Music course discussions on copyrights and creativity!
This happens a lot in genres like pop, punk, folk, and country, where relatively simple chord progressions are used. There’s only so many notes that can fit as a melody over those chords, and folks are bound to repeat them. “You Are My Sunshine” and “This Land is Your Land” start their verses very similarly. “Joshua Fit the Battle of Jericho” and “Didn’t My Lord Deliver Daniel” are pretty similar spirituals. “Mick Maguire” and “Hot Asphalt” are two Irish folk tunes with the same exact melody and chord progression.
The fact that we are all building on the same musical foundations and being influenced by similar roots means that we’re bound to purposely or accidentally borrow pieces of what we’ve heard before.
In most folk music traditions, but especially in Appalachian folk music, there’s a long-standing tradition of learning songs and techniques from other people, who in turn learned them from other people, and so on. By virtue of being different players, or because we decide to change something in the style we’ve learned, different techniques appear gradually, and styles change.
I don’t see the problem with songs referencing each other, or having similar melodies. That’s what music is. “7 Rings” melodically referencing “My Favorite Things” is like the exact inverse of Bob Dylan’s “Moonshiner”, which is a song that is lyrically identical to an Irish folk song of the same name, but with a different melody. That’s how music works. We’re all influencing and being influenced by each other.
Music is a lot like evolution. You can pick out the common ancestors, and follow the branching paths of slight changes from past to present. Each individual change may not seem like much at all, but in the larger context of deep time, we can see that huge shifts have happened.
I have a feeling that music credits in the future are going to look like the authors page on a scientific paper based on result from CERN. Longer than the structure of the work itself.
i remember misery business and we are never getting back together being mashed up a lot back when that song came out lmao. and as someone who looooooooves to do mashups and has a whole list dedicated to new mashup ideas - so many songs can be put together well. it's part of the fun and it only enhances what makes each song great for me. and these copyright arguments are always kinda frustrating to me considering the long history of music being used by other artists and expanded upon or played with as part of the exchange and creation of music.
I mean, somebody mashed up *Pachelbel D* and "Starships" by Nicki Minaj, and that works way too well.
I love your videos soo soo much and the style of editing and how you explain things as well.
i would one day love to see all of them collab or do a remix or live or something.. that would be amazing because i love all of them
"I'm sure I've ripped off other people too." Adam Levine.
"Yeah you did." Pachelbel.
Also memories really has a same melody has a disney song.
@@takemyhand1988 To be fair, everyone rips off pachelbel... I like this comedian guy at a uni doing a rant about it:
czcams.com/video/JdxkVQy7QLM/video.html
Its public domain
@@deltav864 this was the very first youtube video i ever watched
@@deltav864 that guy did another pretty funny sketch too: czcams.com/video/dQw4w9WgXcQ/video.html
Great comedian all round
I love the U2 line from The Fly, "Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief. They all kill their inspiration and sing about their grief."
It’s no secret at all.
i dont like u2 but that is a pretty nice phrase
@Nikos Antikythera u mean he is "the biggest piece of sh*t" ?
I heard this "Misery Business" song on the radio on the bus a month or so ago, and I realised it sounded JUST like "Good 4 u," so I immediately shazammed it to figure out which song it was.
Honestly with the amount of songs being written these days, it is physically impossible to not copy a part of another song
Yeah i wonder if its intentional though. Did Olivia really do this by accident?
I REALLY need that Taylor x Paramore mashup and the Green Day x Olivia Rodrigo, HOLY SHIT THAT SOUNDED GREAT
I've thrown the stems together on my account in case you're still looking for it !
Ill upload them to my channel
Green Day x Olivia rodrigo sounds awful tbh
Here's one: czcams.com/video/4nMw4LTOCXc/video.html
@@andersonniu4800 agreed! I’m a big Green Day fan and I already don’t really like their new album they put out plus her music isn’t the greatest either just my opinion their voices wouldn’t match up very well :/
There are billions of songs that have been written in history how do you expect one to be absolutely unique and different from all the others
because lawyers
just dont copy a super unique song to the exact note and vocal pattern.... she literally just copied it with different lyrics man. this ain't it
@les rete the vocalization patterns, which made Misery Business unique and why it was such a hit, was a direct copycat.. as well as the subject matter in the lyrics. this is why they gave Paramore writers credits on the song and are paying them royalties now
well, Bohemian Rhapsody was, and it did hit Billboard. you just have to be a little more genius (sry just an oldschool fan rant here)
@@stackered no actually the vocalization is not that similar it’s just the instrumental and only in the chorus
Great video and I really liked what you said at the end.
Your videos are unbelievably well researched and produced.
Music has gotten so petty. Imagine if the Ramones chased every band that copied them. Would've been a bloodbath.
This exact same phenomenon is seen even beyond music, such as in literature, where it is actually celebrated. It’s widely known and accepted that different character types, tropes, clichés, story structures, etc. are inspired by and recycled from other works. I’ve even read textbooks that encourage finding these similarities between different books to find deeper meaning within the newer works. Art doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and that carries over to music as well. All artists and songwriters take inspiration from motifs and tropes of their own favorite artists and make it their own, and I think that’s beautiful
It’s an obvious steal. Her verses are quiet and fast spoken just like paramore . The drum leading into the chorus is basically the same. Drum roll to lead into chorus. And as the guy mentioned the chorus feels the same .
If you can’t hear that and think every song in pop punk is the same then you really have no idea what you’re listening to and are just a consumer and not a fan of music .
It’s like making a new Star Wars and calling it war of the stars . It’s not loosely similar, it’s really similar .
@@heythere6983 lol did you even watch the video?
@@heythere6983 shut up you’re literally wrong
Archetypal derivation is always fun :)
Ur equating influence to plagiarism. There is a spectrum and this is far along on the plagiaristic end.
the amount of knowledge you have about all this is so impressive, instant subscription i look forward to more fantastic analysis ^^
I love videos like these. People really don’t understand how much music is taken from other pieces
"never tell the lawyers about 12 bar blues" lmao
Yeah, there are several standard chord progressions and several standard melodies that come up all the time. But still it doesn't limit creativity.
When my interpolation of Sungazer's "Dream of Mahjong" becomes a massive pop hit, I hope that Adam will defend me in court.
and i'll be adverting your remix so you'll get sued
I write and play music and I would say it's quite difficult to not use certain chord progressions that appear in other songs. You just have to make sure it doesn't sound a lot like anything you know of.. like the whole package. I knowingly rip off my own songs you could say lol.. like 3 or 4 times... because there's a lot of ways I want to play with one melody/strum pattern/chord progression. Music should be free to create! However, when I first heard this song on the radio, I IMMEDIATELY thought of Misery Business and that's never even been close to happening with any other songs with copyright in question..
Exactly.
Strum pattern? Whole package? Are you sure you’re a song writer?
Remember all the times The Beatles said they nicked something from someone else?
Ugh finally, thank you for the first sober, non-hyperbolic analysis of these songs! Yes, they're kinda similar. Yes, they're both great. Yes, every great artist has done this. End of story.
Let's talk about how good that "Same song" harmony was though.
I was very much caught off guard by it
3:06
@@meimeirkgk I think it's 3:57
@@rhuboy8048 thank you !
Right? It sounded very similar to Digital Underground's song "Same Song". Good for Adam!
There’s this really cool mashup called “Good 4 U is a totally original song” or something like that that basically mashed up a lot of these songs- there’s a section tho with some of Inscryption music in the “maybe I’m to emotional” part which is *so good*
i was desperately hoping for triple-q's mashup cover to come up somewhere in this and it didn't but i think it's both absolutely bonkers and makes an interesting commentary on what originality even means. it includes good 4 u, misery business, and we are never ever getting back together, *and* boulevard of broken dreams which was mentioned here, but it also brings in a bunch of super unexpected songs that no one was accusing good 4 u of plagiarizing, but either are fairly similar, or aren't but mesh weirdly seamlessly with everything else (disaster of passion from guilty gear strive, shut me up by mindless self indulgence, immigrant song by led zeppelin, some sonic fan song, etc.)
really just shows that sure sometimes plagiarism in music happens but really everything is a lot more mushy and similar than people realize (also highly recommend their version for sucker by the jonas brothers, which combines it not just with a song it was accused of copying, but also with a song THAT song was accused of copying during its time (oh and also with a japanese idol game song titled "kyun! vampire girl" that as it turns out has sucker's EXACT melody))
I was hoping to see someone mention triple-q's mashup
The mashup came out about 6 months after this video.
My immediate reaction to your first question about if they sound the same was "no, that's just what that genre sounds like."
Literally what my initial thought was. It’s lazy pop punk instrumentation and simple pop vocal melodies. Not saying it sucks definitely not something I’d listen to either though.
I'd be super impressed if someone could do pop-punk and *not* sound like the unbroken string of similar bands dating back to the Ramones.
@@JuliaAllenHesse there are a lot of them but they usually have other elements from other genres
You can even go one step further and imitate someone's iconic style and it would still not be a ripoff. Might even be a sincere homage.
You know Dire Straights, right?
Check this out: czcams.com/video/DoPd6p94B_A/video.html (4everfreebrony - Momentum)
Adam discussing the relationships of notes to one another rips off Pythagoras.
Lovely comparisons and examples. It demonstrates your point so well.
Thanks for clearing this up!
I think this is just a troubling phenomenon of musical gatekeeping. I think people want to hold onto this pure creative view of music and that this attitude cannot be tainted by the popular mainstream music. I think this is incredibly troubling with (pop-)punk music where it generally is characterized by it's pure raw and emotional artistic act, so when a rising popstar like Olivia makes a song with some similar and very common characteristics sound similar to a song, people want to tear it down.
I completely agree. Most of the time you hear these gatekeepers wishing genres like pop punk and rock would come back, and when someone finally does then they tear them apart. Particularly pop artists. I remember Billie Eilish did a small cover of Smells Like Teen Spirit and a lot of angry men ripped her to shreds in the comments. It made no sense.
Doing the "forensic musicology" on the two songs, then showing how that same analysis would apply to other songs is a really strong way of countering the argument. Well done.
I think a lot of the uncharitability Olivia Rodrigo has received in this whole situation does stem from the fact that she's a very young woman singing about typically teenaged concerns. As a culture we kinda hate teenage girls for things we let slide with other people. Media made for teenage girls is reviled by grown ass adults who just rightly have no opinion on media for teenage boys. It really seems like sexism amplifies our contempt for frivolous and over-emotional things. Boy's cartoon shows are just as silly and dramatic as girl's ones, but which one is a grown adult more likely to denounce as idiotic and irritating?
And there's no doubt that Olivia Rodrigo is frivolous and over-emotional. Like, when I worked at a restaurant where pop music was always playing, I was tired of her songs too, because how many has she written about the same boy? I get the contempt, but I'm also aware that the intensity of my feelings on the matter probably have some sexism to them.
And I feel like people who are acting like Rodrigo borrowing from other songs is just SO unforgivable, are themselves influenced by this unconscious sexism. Every example I can think of in the past few years of a pop singer being accused of plagiarism was a young woman. I'm sure it happens to men to but it seems to become a bigger deal, such that I'd even hear about it, when it's a teenage/twenty something woman on the pop charts.
Aaaannddd there’s the comment bringing in a whole paragraph about it being sexist. Nope. She stole from Paramore and had to include them legally as song writers. No matter what you or people on this thread or the guy who made the video say otherwise, she created work that was legally unoriginal. End of discussion
@@taylorackley9144 You're right. Clearly the capitalist intellectual property laws are the be all "end all" of any discussion about music. The artists themselves seem to be defending Olivia and the corporations trying to get free money are attacking her. Your truth is so clearly objective and you are not at all a bootlicking toady!
@@TheReddaredevil223 corporations are who designed her career and other career trajectories like hers. The fact that Paramore has publicly defended her is a pr move and not a genuine stance on Rodrigo’s behalf. In fact, that was only Hailey Williams. The other co-author of that song was upset by the stark similarities. But sure, I’m a toady bootlicker for wanting original content and music to stay original. Literally everything I stand for in music is for it to be as corporate free and original- and hopefully even transcendent- as possible. Rodrigo is the definition of a corporate manufactured “Billboard Top-20” artist along the lines of Taylor Swift. But you do you. Keep believing you’re not the one slurping up every bit of agenda pandering nonsense regurgitated for you by the same people you say I’m bootlicking lol
@@taylorackley9144 You must have not watched the video if you thought Olivia Rodrigo did anything remotely unique in terms of harming the 'originality of music'.
Truly an incredible argument that Hailey Williams is not saying what she actually believes. Why? Because you said so.
Who am I bootlicking? I have no idea what the corporation behind Rodrigo has said about any of this.
I do like deluding yourself into thinking that the discussion is over because the law went one way. You claim to be anti corporation and yet you support their right to claim chord progressions and enforce stiff intellectual property law. You think they would just do this against another corporation only? They would do it against ANY successful artist, even independently published. So no you are clearly the bootlicker here.
Guess what, no song has been completely original in centuries. Again, I seriously question if you watched the video.
@@TheReddaredevil223 I seriously question why I wasted my time responding to a fucking novel from an anonymous youtube account but here we are. Enjoy your fantasy you dumb twat.
Me, not knowing much about music theory (I’m still learning tho) but watching the video anyways:
Great video, my guy. Love your videos a lot!
I am suing, this video is a direct copy of mine, see u in court Adam-I know this guy who does crazy awesome breakdowns of copyright stuff on CZcams I'm gonna text him now
Really disgusting behaviour Adam, I expected more from you.
I'm hoping for an interpolation credit to appear in the future.
I knew it!
Guitarman/bassist fight!
This reminds me about when I listened to one song by Andrew McMahon in the Wilderness called "Canyon Moon" and compared the same notes to another song by a Canadian singer Bryan Adams called "Open Road".
If you listen to these songs, you get the idea.
A whole lot of wonderful songs use that IV I V w/ optional vi V turnaround, like Passenger's "Let Her Go" (chorus), Dresden Dolls' "Delilah" (whole song), Lake Street Dive's "I Can Change" (whole song except prechorus), Fatboy Slim's "Praise You" (whole song). It's a great progression, neither starting nor ending on the one, so the momentum continues indefinitely. To my ear, it subverts the V's pull to the one, making V almost feel like "home", but with an added lingering, wistful emotional quality.
Also "Down" by Jay Sean. Its melody has the same basic contour as well.
My first thought is “how is interpolating the hook of a song legal, when the Marvin Gaye estate can sue anybody and their mother for ‘groove and feel?’”
Why are you Gaye
@@pelesrelewot Who says I am Gaye?
Laws aren’t ethics.
@@chinmaysambrekar9825 you are gaye!
I'm not sure if they credited Gaye though?
when i heard this on the radio i thought "wow this sounds like misery business. is this sound coming back into style? fuck yeah let's gooooooo" lmao. it's a great song! the lyrics are awesome. i love that teenagers are recognizing emotional abuse for what it is an not putting up with it anymore. it's def important to give credit where credit's due, but we shouldn't slam artists to the point that they're worried abt putting ANYTHING out for fear of getting cancelled. then we just won't get any more cool shit
Lmao theres a misunderstanding here. Everybody at my school tries to play the victim to drive pity. You won’t believe it till you see it.
SAME OMG i was so hype bc i miss the pop punk era
No need to cancel. But if I made something, even inadvertently, so similar to someone else's work I would at least give credit and maybe reach out to them beforehand to show respect for their work.
The world will have lost nothing if songs like Good 4 U were never written or published.
@@brzt4256 tell that to the thousands of kids who adore her music. we should never snub what other people really enjoy even if it is not to our taste
I remember my old roommate was watching Glee when they covered Somebody to Love by Justin Bieber. I was racking my brain for a little bit until I finally figured out Cry for You by September sounded almost the same. I downloaded Audacity and popped the two in, transposed Somebody to Love maybe a whole step or so. The bpm matched up exactly, and even though I didn't make any other modifications besides offsetting the two (it was the first time I'd done anything with music editing), they mashed up pretty effectively, and it actually didn't sound half bad. I called it Somebody to Cry for You, lol (never released 😁)
When good 4 u was super overplayed. I would find myself singing along to it and accidentally just drifting into misery business thinking they were the same song.
EXACTLY! I kept mixing them up because of how simile they were.
Paramore already getting royalties from the amount people listening to their music again from this link
Reminds me of how Doja Cat & SZA's song 'Kiss Me More' is an interpolation of 'Let's Get Physical' by Olivia Newton John!
Or even "Say So" sounding like one song (that I cannot recall) by Kylie Minogue.
@@neilkenneth859 and that Kylie song was just riffing on disco and R&B
Thing is, Doja explained that the she was inspired by that song while working on it.
And it also sounds like she worked on it to make it sound like something new.
Meanwhile, Dua & Miley's "Prisoner" is a more prime example for interpolation of "Physical".
I think it all comes down to how the outcome feels when you listen to it. But that different outcome can only be heard if the artist really work on it.
I literally cannot hear that sound without singing physical along with it
They sound exactly the same. I’m a songwriter. There’s a huge difference from the examples you gave which clearly sound “original” from the actual release. One can try to explain it away all they wish, but this beyond influence. It’s copycat territory.
… hence her having to give writing credit to another artist she never actually collabed with. Can you say the same of the examples presented, or the abundance of music throughout the years utilizing the same chord progressions? Nope.
@@amaramzk But how is it different?
Amazing Report. Youre the real deal. I cant play my guitar or piano without like hitting so many chords from older songs. 🤷♀️💝
I would love to see Adam’s take on how one would innovate with the pop rock genre in order to debunk the “there is only so much you can do, if you want to be unique play jazz ig” theory
I mean, it's extremely easy to innovate in those spaces, honestly, and there is a ton of innovation happening in ways people don't generally talk about, but most artists don't want to. I don't mean that as a bad thing, either, just that most artists aren't looking to revolutionize the musical landscape, they want to tell their own story WITHIN the musical landscape already existing.
@@loganstrong5426 let's not forget that Adam didn't really cover the differences. Despite the similarities can we honestly say they didn't do something different than all the other songs that used a similar musical foundation? How different do things need to be to be innovative?
I also have spent a lot of time with Irish music. Musicians are literally constantly playing and recording the same melodies that countless others have played and recorded. And, the repetition doesn't get old? Because there is still nuance and change and innovation despite people literally copying the same melodies over and over. (Which, actually jazz does that a lot too, to some degree)
If you like the songs and the artists don't care, then, surely, everyone wins. I have always loved the sharing of ideas between artists. When artistic minds bounce ideas and themes off each other something amazing can happen. It's only when something is completely plagiarized that I start to squirm; especially if the victim of said plagiarism cries out, 'No Fair!' and nobody listens or seems to care.
Honestly, I don't even care about the artists' opinions, as long as it's not affecting the artists' ability to be successful or recognized. In this case, I simply don't see that happening. Is there a significant section of the population which will stop listening to Misery Business in favor of Good 4 u? I think most people at this point have stopped listening to Misery Business already, and the people that still are most definitely won't be swayed by Rodrigo's tune. If anything, all the talk about how similar the songs sound to some people has brought more newcomer traffic to Misery Business, and thus Paramore, so this is probably a net positive for them just from that.
Although, like you say, if it was a legitimate plagiarism case, things would be different. But these tunes are only similar in the ways that so many other songs in the Western pop paradigm are, and are different in all the ways that truly matter.
I feel like this shows a distinct lack of concern for lawyers and lawyering. Lawyer-ist!
@@alxjones First, lots of people still listen to Misery Business, it’s one of Paramore’s most streamed songs, people like MGK and others do covers of it. Second, Good for U is obviously plagiarism or Rodrigo’s management would not have signed over fifty percent of the publishing rights. They had no choice as they knew they would lose in court. It’s so funny how Rodrigo fans are spinning this. 😂
@@marike1100 Doing it because they "Knew they would lose in court" does not equal "They were guilty of plagiarism".
@@GamingOS notice how many other songs that sound similar didnt have this issue. similar lyrics, etc. white knight more
Came here from triple Qs mashup. Basically all the music theory from this in a single song.
You mean the musical style of 18th century European musicians
I would love for the analysis of mathematics of music, such as mathematically formula of "pleasing note combinations" in contrast to "unpleasant note combinations". Like the second formula shows up on how many horror movie themes or background music without using the mathmatic formula. Or if programming a computer to randomly make songs with pleasing formula note combinations how many songs will eventually sound like the same as other songs generated?