Why are there so few rap cover songs?
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- What makes hip hop un-coverable? Why don't rappers ever cover other rappers?
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sorry I didn't actually rap in this video, too much of a coward, lol.
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lame... when are we getting the adam neely guns and ships cover?
you really should listen to "Con la sombra de tu aliado" by Spinetta Jade, the bass is amazing
rapea en castellano
White guy who did a crappy cover checking in.... at least I used a bass though?
Bah! Get over your stage fright and DO IT!
I never realized there was a pandemic of white dudes covering rap songs on acoustic guitar.
Started in early 2000s. I think JoCo started the phenomenon
worse than covid
and then they'll be racist
@@clown134 ?
As a white guitar dude I find these kinds of covers pretty cringy.
The way you present it here, makes me think that a rapper covering another rappers verse/track would be the equivalent to a stand up comic telling another comedian's joke.
There ya go!
Exactly so. If Bill Burr went on stage and did someone else's bit it would be as strange and disappointing as if Kendrick Lamar did a minor interpretation cover on his next album.
Bingo
I have heard remixes by more obscure artists... like if you are spitting your own lyrics on another rapper’s beat it isn’t frowned upon maybe?
That's a great way to see it, it would be considered stealing the joke. Which comedians actually do all the time, hoping that nobody notices. Insert Krusty scene: czcams.com/video/mSdV12FhNR0/video.html
Drake was mocked (at least in Toronto) for a long time for his "From the bottom now I'm here" specifically because it was not his lived experience.
Oh no, believe me, Americans mocked him too lol
@@Sheristen its crazy how people think they know the lives of people they have never met before.
@@bibbotyty4209 usually I'd agree, but when you're a famous child actor.... there's no financially possible way you could be "at the bottom" homeboy was loaded before he could legally drink lol. So Drake deserved to be dragged for that lyric fr
@@Sheristen bro you don't know how much that man got paid to be in those commercials and tv shows
@@bibbotyty4209 a quick google search will inform you that he was making more than 2xs the salary of a working class adult by age 15. I'd laugh at Taylor Swift too if she came out with songs talking about how "rough" her upbringing in the "streets" was when she's been financially comfortable most of her life. No shame in being a rich kid, but don't front like you're something you aren't...and that's why Drake got dragged.
I’d never expect to ever hear the sentence: “Bach kept it real”
In the third grade we did a musical called Bach to the future. The opening song was sort of rap and everything else was making kids try to sing to Bach pieces that were not meant to be sung
I mean he did though
AND have it make sense
He's making a come-Bach! 🤭
@@Squirrelconga OUT! 😠🤣
The paying homage aspect of rap is diverted towards the beats rapped upon rather than the the lyrics. If they want to pay homage they’ll usually rap over your beat as apposed to using your lyrics
I was going to leave this exact comment, but figured I would find one just like it, and thumb it up 👍
Lyrics are quoted a lot too, though: "I am, the R. A. K. I. M. If I wasn't, then why would I say I am." -> "I am whatever you say I am. If I wasn't, then why would I say I am."
@@russellk.4896 Right, if they do quote a line it’s because they know it’s too iconic to be misconstrued as their own work
@@grimaffiliations3671, so it's ok to bite off someone if everyone knows you're biting. Thanks for clearing that up.
@@notahotshot yeah like drake in one of his new songs rapping “But I do know one thing tho, women they come they go. Saturday through sunday Monday. Monday through Sunday yo” as a tribute to Eminem
At first I read "Rap Songs Do Not Exist" and me being used to Adam's absurd titles sometimes, I completely went with it
Nah that's something 'Ben Shapiros father who went to music school' would say
@@user-ej4md7tm3y Darn, beat me to it
@@user-ej4md7tm3y You're right, but I guess I meant it as one of Adam's more meme-y titles
Same
I guess Adam also went to music school
There's an album called "In The Beginning, There Was Rap," And that album was filled with rap covers of rap songs in an effort to pay homage to old school rappers. One of the more famous examples of rappers covering rap songs besides Snoop Dogg paying homage to his favorite rappers, is Erick Sermon, Redman and Keith Murray covering Rappers Delight by Sugarhill Gang.
That was the first cd I ever bought with my own money.
Too $hort - I Need A Freak is on there and that song fucking bumps!!!
They mention the rappers delight cover at 8:16
I’ve seen Snoop covering House of Pain’s “Jump Around.” Quite peculiar cover.
Bone thugs fuck da police. I bought any Cd that had bone back then. Got in the beginning at circuit city when it came out. Good times
Ethan getting shaken up by being asked to rap then explaining why it was hard actually shook me up.
Guess that was a reason why rapping is pretty raw
kids: Mr Ethan, let's hear you spit!!!
Mr. Ethan : ***sweats in jazz***
[Jazz music stops]
Starts scatting profusely
@@rebmcr hahaha
I cried laughing at that, thank you
*sweats dissonantly
*sweats in Dorian
*sweats in Rhythm Changes
*sweats in The Lick
He should've just materialized a piano and started riffing a jazz song on it.
"somebody is writing a choral arrangement of kanye west power"
yeah, that somebody is probably kanye
Kanye fucking would cover his own songs
@@OsKarMike1306 how tf do you cover your own song?
@@chrilborn4138 pretty sure that's called a v.i.p.
@@OsKarMike1306 What does this even mean lol
Of course he covers his own songs, he does concerts lmao
I'd love to hear that ngl
Thank you for talking about hip hop/rap in an elevated way. I feel too often it gets devalued as an art form. This is done with love and respect.
I feel like in rap its so focused on what you said and how you said it that if you just did someone else's verse it kinda ruins what makes it special. Especially when you look at the older generations of rap they focus on crafting a story or being really clever with their lyricism and rhyme schemes and it's only clever if you made it. You also didn't seem to talk about speed rapping, people do cover fast verses because being able to rap at the same speed or faster than the original creator seems to be in a way bringing something to the table. Just some thoughts.
It is basically like Comedy. Can't steal other people's jokes
Good analogy, probably better than "you wouldn't play an entire Miles Davis solo". Hip hop is such a hybrid art form mixing music, poetry, even acting. It goes a good bit beyond the boundaries we usually put around pop music. We shouldn't be surprised that there's a whole different set of expectations and traditions compared to pop, soul, country, etc. 21st-century pop in general is also moving to this more "personal" / "uncoverable" state. There are certainly examples of this from decades ago...certain songs that are completely "owned" by their creators, because the part that is interesting about the song is not the melody or chord changes--its all about the specific personality delivering the lyric. How many people want to hear anyone other than Bob Dylan sing "Visions of Johanna"?
I get that, but when I do steal a joke, I move fast and *schumer* the hell out of there.
@@wernersmidt3298 how well did that go for her?
I think the similarities betwenn the 2 art forms are 1) they both respresent some part fo the creator's mind in an immediate, direct way and 2) performing is absolute;y a factor of the whole aesthitics but the biggest deal is the inspiration, so you miss a very big part of practising the artform by re-perfoming someone else's idea. Also, (in my country's standarts) we use lines of other rappers who belong in the same social circle, as a friendly reference. For example, one MC saying a line of antoher member fo their group's verse or of a local hood hit. Generally, the 'we' thing is a big deal in hip-hop culture, so the choice of your references might natter a lot.. I think you can't just cover a song without expressing your special connection to this in some way. By the way, you can check out RATM's covers of rap classics, as well as Prophets of Rage covers or RATM song, vocally performed by ChuckD and B-Real, which show the 'representing your people' concept I mentioned.
Can't steal other people's jokes ?
*Gad Elmaleh has left the chat*
I've never heard someone say "keeping it real" in such an academic way.
Thanks Ethan!
Haha, well keep in mind that the whole reason those kinds of phrases got popular is down to well-spoken men in suits! (Rap only got so big based on the white suburban masses buying the carefully marketed albums, etc etc.)
It was pretty funny. But from a logical standpoint that argument didn't make sense to me. Rapping is like 90% flexing (depending on exactly what rap subgenre you're talking about) and by definition flexing is NOT keeping it real. And everyone can see a flex from a mile away, but it still happens and people respect it. Plus, a good portion of rap lyrics (again depending on the subgenre) are repeats of common rap lexicon. So how can you say a rapper is just keeping it real when they're rapping in their friend's suburban home studio about their drip they got after trapping in the streets? Immediately afterward he talks about how rap isn't about playing a character, but I'd argue that rap is more about that than most genres of music.
@@MattMcConaha This is a pretty good point. I think it can be countered by saying that 'flexing' must be seen as part of keeping it real. People from poor backgrounds the world over seek ways to increase their perceived wealth. For example, in Moldova, teens squat and jangle their keys---the more keys, the better, irrespective of what they're for. Poor kids in the UK buy fake gold chains. Saying you have a mil in the bank when you have £10,000 is just an extension of that.
Meh. White people. AMIRITE?
Rage Against the Machine did a whole cover album of songs, mostly from hip hop classics. Felt that could've been mentioned
Still a rock group so they didn't mention it
Dezel Curry covered a RATM song so yeah 🤔
@@andrija3511 saying they're a rock group is really simplistic. You're not wrong, but they were much more than just a rock band. Tom Morello's guitar sound was specifically designed to fill in as the DJ. Overlay that with Zack rapping and I'd call them more of a rock based rap band
@@Mewse1203 indeed as Beastie Boys , Run DMC and Public Enemy were major influences on RATM. Zack is an amazing MC with awesome lyrics and poetic flow .
@@edmundscycles1 And the Beastie Boys were, in turn, originally a rock group themselves, and rock instrumentation threaded in and out of their whole career (listen, all a y'all, to "Sabotage").
It's refreshing to see two master musicians treat the rap musical art form with the respect it deserves.
Never got into it, not my style. But have mad respect for the genre, the history, the stories and artists who are good at it.
yes, rap music tends to be discredited and treated as the little brother with the unplugged controller, it’s infuriating
@@javiartem it's the opposite in this comments section. people are acting as if rap is above being covered somehow. "being vulnerable" like this guy talks also happens in other genres. and that's not a requirement for covering anything.
@@purplewine7362rap hinges on the expression of personal ideas and experiences. Vulnerability isn't necessarily the perfect descriptor, but the idea is there. Rap is, probably, the most personal and lyrically focused music genre to ever exist, which is why variation and technical skill is judged by the idiosyncrasies of the lyricist. A cover of a rap song is like wearing someone else's ill-fitting clothes because you were "inspired by their style"
@@casadastraphobia no rap is not inherently the most personal. try again, rap snob. music is music. rap is not above being covered.
Just some local input here,
In Poland there was a very famous rapper called Magik, who committed suicide in 2000.
His son (who is also a rapper) has covered Magik's songs at concerts.
I'm not trying to take away from that because it's genuinely awesome, but I think you incur a lot less risk covering the songs of your own family because people can't really tell you that you interpreted it wrong or don't represent the character of the original composer (since you literally got your sense of character mostly from them and your goal in making this cover is to honor that character) so to me it seems like those kinds of covers differ from what Adam is discussing which are those done by artists of noticeably different backgrounds and characters unconnected to the original artists'
In Japan, I tend to see "covers" of English rap songs in Japanese (although it's more of a remix). The rappers try to keep the flow exactly the same as the original. Does this happen in Poland?
Also, "Summer Jam '95", a song by Japanese Hip Hop legends Scha Dara Parr has been covered by Uzhaan, a tabla musician, and two other rappers recently. The cover got permission from the original artists.
EXACTLY... it's more so considered acceptable if it's done live.
@@FerroMeow tbh Japan is pretty much similar in terms of audience preferences. But it's still surprising to me that it's not done in Poland. Thanks for the reply!
There are also Or/Otherwise covers of popular Hip-hop songs.
translate.google.pl/translate?hl=&sl=pl&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fpl.m.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlbo_Inaczej
This is how we know Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" isn't a rap song.
omfl why is this not top comment
Thanks, now I want to hear a rap version of "Hallelujah"
@@BoojieBaker Check out Cohen's original then (that's the joke)
And thank god for that. Up until this point it was always a toss up in my mind.
@@dirkturtle3354 No it’s not, but nice try
Orchestras are just fancy cover bands.
... Holy shit.
Mos def (and others) presenting very raw, emotional covers of MF DOOM's music is an example from earlier this year (I realise - months after this video was released).
He also did a "cover" of Slick Rick's "Children's Story", and Snoop did a "cover" of Doug E Fresh & Slick Rick's "Lodi Dodi"...
I like how rappers will sometimes quote other rappers the way jazz guys do in their solos.
And I think that's the answer: hip hop is like jazz and not like pop, so you get lots of examples of rappers using the same beats and sometimes hook, but putting their own verses on to the song; just like a jazz band will use the same cord sequence and head, but each soloist will do their own thing and not, as Neely's interviewee says, 'transcribe the solo and play it note for note'. The Big Pun/Fat Joe remix of Deep Cover is a great example.
The most comforting thing about learning this today: We won't have to worry about "dad rap" bands doing 1:1 covers in the next 10-30 years.
They may not be 1:1 but those white guys playing acoustic guitars are gonna get older 😬
I have been to a hip hop karaoke night in London (at The Social). The people who got up were well past wasted though.
Plenty of edgy metalcore bands covering Eminem tunes though.... and then folks like Ice-T covering 99 Problems and still managing to keep it real
premier deuxième and the guy made a video about how he doesn’t say the n word anymore. Truly the realest ever to do it.
@spicyduck Could you name some “Dad Rap” groups or rappers?
“In the beginning there was rap” was album with 90s rappers doing old school covers. “I need a freak” by puffy and “sucka mcs” by wu tang. That’s were the def squad cover came from but they also put that jam in the album..
I feel we perfected homage. We just quote ppl or interpolate lyrics. The vocal element of rap is a bonus. You’re listening to them explicitly for what they say, whereas ofc you love Whitney Houston’s lyrics, but her voice is the main thing
Wait does that mean ben shapiro saying rap is not music but rhythmic speaking is right? I hope not
"Someone is writing a choral arrangement of Kanye West's 'Power' as we speak"
- Erhm, no... no not at all...
*puts down quill*
@John Verne i will also be performed in Finland in the old Nokia factories...
I despise Kanye West with a passion, but I have to admit the song "Power" gets me pumped up.
@@HeelBJC I don't like him much as a rapper and I despise his public persona, but he has made some pretty fabulous beats.
As a producer he’s fantastic.
musescore.com/bri_/scores/4419191 (not choral, but still)
As an older hip hop fan, my take is that rap in particular tends to be tied very much to the individual rapper themselves. It tends to be about the rapper as a unique identity staking their claim and making their mark on the world. It's about your lyrics, your style, and even your personal history and how that informs your personality. DMX as the gritty guy with unimpeachable street cred. Canibus as the cerebral but volatile mad scientist. Eminem as the brilliant guy whose upbringing was so screwed up he became a fearless loose cannon who will say things that make your jaw hit the floor. The idea is to blow people's minds with the way your brain in particular processes the world you experience and the way you use language to articulate that experience.
I think all that is related to the competitive element of hip hop, which I think is really what this all boils down to. Hip hop is as much a martial art as it is a form of expression, and I think that ethos has come to pervade the entire culture and artform. So even if your intent isn't to battle, but say, tell a story, a rap cover almost comes across as claiming to be a great fighter, but when it's time to step into the cage, asking your friend to fight for you.
I haven't been a hip hop head in years and I'm kinda out of touch, so maybe these are just the ramblings of an old man. But that's the way I remember things.
Good point
absolutely right bro, hip hop today still follows this ethos. instead of purely flows and lyrics, todays hip hop has morphed to also include cadences and melodies into the “no biting” rule tho. i don’t necessarily think this is bad, however. it incentivizes innovation and i feel that for that reason hip hop morphs so quickly as a genre. one decade it’ll be all about lyrics and flows and the next it’ll be all about who can sound catchiest on a beat. Young Thug for example is an artist most credited for popularizing “mumble rap” where sometimes it’s unintelligible what he’s saying but his cadence is so catchy that it’s still enjoyable to listen. he would have certainly not been a fan favorite in the 2000’s and earlier
You nailed it. Well said.
"Hip Hop is as much a martial art as it is a form if expression" Damn you hit the nail on the head. Nas used to make every other rapper look childish with the sheer complexity of his rhyme scheme. And Wu-Tang Clan took the martial arts thing to its extreme, to the point where different artists sampled different action movies depending on their style. GZA for example sampled Japanese films instead of Chinese ones, as the rest of the Wu had a style that was a constant barrage of hits and moves whereas GZA was more direct with his lines, like in those sword fights where there would only be one or two moves and the enemy was dead.
Super well worded!!
I was really expecting a mention of Rage Against The Machine's cover of Cypress Hill's "How I Could Just Kill a Man"
I don't know if that counts because rage is considered more of a rock band than a rap band
@@RobLives4Love they're intersectional. They're touring with run the jewels right now, they've toured with wu tang.
Hi Adam, I am a philosopher of Aesthetics, and absolutely loved this video. You are talking about authenticity in the video which is such a loaded and interesting concept in art theory and you guys really kept it real in your conversation. Really great video
My friend owns a pirated version of "The Real Book" that he printed online and it's called "The Fake Book" lmao
Plot twist: they're ALL pirated. Even the "real" ones.
I think fake books pre-dated the Real Book. The Real Book is a compendium of fake books gathered together with the different takes on the songs in them distilled to their common elements. Fake books were created by jazz musicians while sitting in clubs listening to other groups gigging basically so they could steal their tunes. There were a bunch of versions of these over decades that were them preserved in the Real Book.
@@ih8suvs Yes, fake books predated the Real Book. But the Real Book in particular was transcribed from recordings by people at Berklee -- some faculty, some students at the time -- and was not compiled from existing transcriptions.
a friend of mine has a midi version of the real book
@@mal2ksc I wonder how many errors there are since there was no input from the actual players
Adam Neely is to music what Vsauce is to science; that’s an odd thought.
I'd argue Vsause is much more iconic and video style is very broad whilst Neely is very narrow focused on a specific topic, but in a broad sense yeah I can see the comparison
I'd say Adam feels more like Veritasium, personally.
quizzical prefect comparison
@@mason11198 he's said that's what he's trying go for when he sat down with music is win(Tyler Larson) once
I'd say David Bennett is closer than Adam Neely, at least in terms of making things more understandable to a general audience.
As someone who grew up on hip hop music I never considered that people from other genres would find it odd that cover's aren't a thing. It's just so obvious to me. But really made me enjoy this video - seeing rap from another perspective but also being reminded that we all perceive culture and the unspoken rules that come with it so differently.
not covering rap isn't a rule
lol at the dude singing "99 problems" since Ben Folds kind of started that whole trend with that exact song. So is he sending tribute to Ben folds or to Jay Z or to both?
It's against the ethics of the culture. As a 30 year old rapper, who has studied and been a part of the culture for a few decades (and I still have much to learn), I can say that the culture is about as complex as any of the others that you've broken down in ways similar to your video detailing the history of racism in our teaching of music theory.
Rap is a part of hip-hop. Hip-hop has a few widely accepted elements:
1.emcee'ing
2. Dee jaying
3. Breakdancing
4. Graffiti
5. Beat boxing
All of these have a story behind them rooted in the history of the culture and it's counter-cultural nature.
Notice, I didn't say rapping or performing.
Both of these things are a part of emcee'ing. Rap started off as part of someone emcee'ing a party. They would use extemporaneous performance to liven up a party while a DJ looped a part of a record (a break beat) for people to dance over (break dancing). Nothing in that context would lead to covers.
After this, emcee'ing evolved into a dorm of lament as the first full recorded rap song was a couple of guys talking about gentrification in Harlem. Lament, story telling and political activism all played a part in early rap.
So we see two trees:
1. Party rap
2. Expository or story rap.
Those are the two tent poles of the medium.
Both of those are rooted in an individual personality or story telling ability (which is also important in most African cultures with the African-American culture being no exception).
I could say more, but basically, if you want to understand why we don't do covers, learn more about Hip-hop as a culture, instead of rap as a medium. One is derivative of the other. Rap has undergone so much transformation as it traveled into the mainstream, but it's roots are where the hesitation for covers lie.
As a rapper reading your title, my heart instantly just says "We don't do that" lol
Very informative comment! Thanks bro
@@PKNproductions no problem fam. I love music, and I love Hip-hop!
Ok that was a college paper... but well written.
+
@@Braillionaire do you have any books on the subject you'd recommend? Also thanks for the informative comment, that blows my mind.
The students: _"Rap, Ethan!"_
Ethan: *Jazz music stops*
Jazz and rap go surprisingly well together.
@@HappyBeezerStudios Probably. Both very rythm based.
@@HappyBeezerStudios and made by the same people group
Nujabes with Substantial
"rap solo!!!!" 🦸
I think the main reason most rappers don't cover other rap songs, is cos it's SUPER hard to add anything new.
When you do an instrument or vocal cover of another song, you're adding something new, whether that be your style of singing, your way of playing the instrument etc.
But to a rapper who only raps... What can you add to it? Many rap songs have a strict flow and rhythm that you pretty much can't change otherwise it won't work, especially the fast ones that spit lyrics fast. Not to mention most rap pretty much repeat the same notes and have very short melodic range, so you can't really do octave jumps and rap usually is too fast for any vocal techniques like vibrato.
So if you were to cover a song as just a rapper, you're just copying the song without adding any new interpretation or style basically, unless you have a SUPER unique talking/rapping voice.
It’s really beautiful how adam integrates jazz principles into his videos: “repetition legitimizes” even in the smallest transitions 11:22 ; the “call-response” 13:37
The irony of Adam using King Kunta cuz there's a bar in there that says "most of y'all sharing bars like you got the bottom bunk in a two man cell"
That was criticism towards ghost-writing though, not hommage.
Phyoomz fair enough but in the same regard i feel that also is a part of the who biting and keeping it real points that were being made
@@calin4906 oh yeah, I would agree with that. It's definitely relevent.
Motif
A weird ‘cover’ rule from the world of Electronic club music:
You just “don’t” cover/remix/quote/lift melody / riffs / material from other producers and put them in ‘your’ work; If you use even a tiny bit of some other artist’s work, etiquette stipulates you name the resulting track after it’s original author and track title and put whatever you’ve done to it in parentheses afterwards, i.e., “Green Velvet - Flash (This Guy’s Remix/edit)”
‘Magically’ however, if you remix/quote/lift material from other genres of music - with the exact same process - the only difference being the material was a from a folk song, classical piece or a record you found. All of a sudden you’re “sampling” and “being creative” and “transformative” and you name the resulting track with your own author name, your own track title and you may only bother cite your copyright permissions (if needed) in small print elsewhere.
So if I sample something from a country song and put 7 minutes of 4/4 kick drum over it, naming convention says I might title it “This Guy - Time 2 Dance (original mix)”
However, if I lifted a riff from Faithless - Insomnia (a piece of music from within the canon), and put it in a piece of work that was otherwise entirely my own creative work and production. Naming convention wouldn’t be “This Guy - This Guy’s Club track”; It wouldn’t even be “This Guy - Insomnia”.
It would be “Faithless - Insomnia (This Guy’s Remix)”
If we treated outside-of-canon sources of material with equal regard, then almost every Drum ‘n’ Bass track ever produced would ought be titled
“The Winstons - Amen, Brother (DJ Whoever’s remix)”
Electronic and hip hop are both recorded music. Where as jazz and classical are sheet music. There is no need to cover it if its recorded. probably should have covered that in the video. Technology is a part of it too.
@@darkestsunray where does rock music fall into that?
AMEN BREAK INDEED!
Main point: sampling and remixing are two different things (legally and musically). Sampling contemporary tracks would be spineless.
I believe the key is obscurity. How many times do you hear a song that samples something made in the past two years? Most of those would be remixes or bootlegs (remixes without the original audio files or permission). On the other hand many EDM songs sample other EDM songs without credit, but you wouldn't know because they're "deep cuts" i.e. obscure. A big part of EDM and Hip Hop is crate digging or searching for really good samples. Especially before the internet, it took a lot of dedication to find unique samples let alone turn it into something new. What you sample can show your sense of taste and community. It can also be a show of skill. To sample the Amen Break today without sounding, cliche, amateurish, or tone deaf would require quite a bit of skill. Samples can be thought of as a medium through which EDM is made. What you use is important, but how you use it is key. A remix generally maintains the structure of the original so it's not really sampling. To sample a recent well known track is uncommon because it's not a "deep cut" of course it's also easier to avoid legal repercussions when you sample old obscure tracks from other genres because the artists you sample are less likely to find out. Not crediting samples also makes it harder for people to "steal" your samples. I also gotta mention how subversive vaporware is considering it breaks the unofficial rules of sampling, and they very official rules of law.
@@nahometesfay1112 You can sample a new song, Schoolboy q sampled Chromatics. My point is both sampling, remixing and covering are ways of paying homage to a previously created work of music.
You should've mentioned Ben Folds and his wonderful cover of 'bitches ain't shit'.
"Wonderful"
I always thought it was because of the competitive nature to rap music, and how as a rapper you gotta be boastful and think you're the best or one of the best when you're at the mic. And that covering other rappers would give the exact opposite message.
exactly!
Yeah, I think that's a big reason aswell.
You nailed it. It's the culture of hip hop. The closest to paying homage in rap is maybe using a line or two . And that has to be done right or you're gonna be looked at as a biter!
I guess then an appropriate way to do an instrumental cover of a rap song would be to sample it, instead of on a production, on a compositional level. So maybe you use the rhythm patterns or if existing, the melody to create something new. That would probably keep it real to a level that compares to HipHop expectations.
Elzhi's album "Elmatic" is a remake of Nas' "Illmatic." It's a cover of almost the whole album with all different verses. Elzhi was part of the Detroit group "Slum Village" with J Dilla.
Yup. Was gonna mention exactly this. Genius.
I gotta check this out 👀
And it's fantastic
Dan Bull did this too with his album Bullmatic, lol. It's probably a little more tongue in cheek than Elmatic, but it's legit.
Yes!!!
I like how the thumbnail shows a guy who famously covered a Slick Rick song.
Edit: Looks like they address it in the video.
I've played guitar since I was 7, played and sang in multitude of bands, played many gigs, some with just a few people and some with hundreds, I've recorded myself playing and singing 100's of times and I am fine with all of that.
When I picked up a saxophone, which is NOT an easy instrument to even get passable at, I was terrified of playing in front of other people. It felt I was baring my soul or something. Odd how these things work :)
I’m a rapper and PhD student whose research project is literally rap and I feel well spoken for here lol thanks 😂🌻
@@leeroyjenkins0 haha, they just flexed and left XD
@@leeroyjenkins0, I'm curious too TBH!
Also curious
@@leeroyjenkins0 Oh my! I am so sorry - I did not get the notification but thankfully you both commented again. Of course I don't mind, it is very kind of you to take an interest. My research project is an interdisciplinary project so it's a thesis alongside music album, visual album, and stage play. I'm looking at the Representation and Identity of rappers, and Rap as a resistance led art form. I tried to make this short but you know.. lol
@@HaleemahX The resistance angle is interesting, especially if you look at what was being "resisted" over the decades since rap materialized. In the late 70's to early 80's, many rap artists lyrics were focused on not becoming a statistic (The message - Grandmaster Flash/Furious Five), morphing into more educated rap/jazz (Pharcyde, Roots, A Tribe Called Quest) pushing the listener to educate and interpret the world, to better themselves and the world around them. I could go on but I'd just be rambling......lol.
"Someone's writing a choral arrangement of kanye west's 'power' as we speak"
*has violent flashbacks to the vine of choir kids sing whip (nae nae)*
Yeah, that is... not good
god why did you have to remind me 😑
Lordt, you really had to remind me🤦🏻♀️
😂
Snoop did a cover in his first 3 albums(Lodi Dodi, Vapors, and Love's Gonna Get You). I thought it was interesting you put Snoop in the thumbnail.
Hip hop has the "remix", which is like a type of cover.
Ethan: "It's OK to do a murder ballad even though you've never murdered anyone."
3:04 *nervous laughter*
Adam has definitely murdered someone. And should rap about it.
Is it OK to murder a ballad, though?
@@dlevi67 if its a boring ballad sure, might make it fun
Nah, he should twang about it
That was an awkward and worrying silence.
He's taking about Folsom, right? Johnny Cash didn't actually shoot a man in Reno just to watch him die, did he?
"You don't just transcribe the solo and get on stage and play it"
Yeah jeez who would DO such a thing? No me in junior high, that's for sure.
@@AspynDotZip You got something against the licc there bro?
In High school (Class of 1996, so some time ago!) Jazz Band (which was extracurricular), I played tenor sax. I was one of the better musicians in all of band, but had little clue as to improvisation. It didn't receive enough attention. I sometimes wound up transcribing my own worked-out solos.
@@AspynDotZip Pretty sure you can cut the lick into tiny pcs and transpose over a mix of chromatics and over the circle of 5ths and make it sound amazing over pretty much any song. It aint what you do, its the way that you doi it.
@@dachanist This guy gets it!
To be fair, I think kids learning a new instrument get a pass in this regard :P
4:20 Might not apply to anyone else in this comment section, but I finally understand what Yancy meant when he said to Fry "are you calling me a biter?" In the episode where he steals all of Frys dance moves (Futurama)
Such a great vid. I enjoy the way you always try to be as reasoned and fair as possible given the sensitive topics.
There is a similar stigma among comics when it comes to doing other people's jokes.
Yes, I also thought of stand-up comedy and the similarities with rap. There’s nothing to hide behind. And stealing jokes is pretty much taboo.
Interesting comparison. Never thought about that
Good point!
Especially interesting point because it used to be the norm for comedians into the 50s and 60s to do other people’s bits, as a musician would play another’s composition. But it could be that it fell out of fashion as comedians began to be characters of personality in the late 60s and 70s instead of just another performer.
@@fusilly__ Stealing people's jokes is subjective. For example, I've heard the observation of "T-Rexs being mean because they couldn't jerk off and they went crazy" from multiple comedians and comedy shows. Did any of them steal it? Or was it just the same thought coming up over time? But when it comes to rap, you can't really plagiarize that and get away with it, even with a different sample.
As a music lover and a black American I find this interesting. Hip Hop is still such a young medium as far as music mediums go, this might change over time. Why? Because given time artists pass away as generations grow up listening to them and see them as forefathers and forerunners in establishing this great musical form. There is no threat or competition against established master artists. This happens as a musical medium matures over a long period of time, like 50 or 75 years or even 100 years. Once that happens even contemporary master artists will most likely be “covered” by younger admirers to a fully formed music medium. Just my thoughts.
In the 60s Hendrix covered the Beatles a few days after the record came out and rock and roll was still very young then.
I wonder if it's to do with rock bands often starting out as live entertainment playing other people's music before they begin to create their own (something both Hendrix and the Beatles did.) That does then beg the question of why there aren't venues that have rappers covering old rap songs.
theres' already rapping in other genres of music, and when people cover that, they also cover the raps.
from what I could see from some of the comment here, rapping in hip hop is more like 'political speech' instead of 'technical ability',
so other hip hop artists would rather make new songs to give respect, instead of showing "hey I have the skills to do what you do"
so for rap covers to be normal, rapping should be accepted as 'just a skill' instead of the culture behind it.
Under current law, this "long period of time" is 70 years after the death of the author (for individual works) or 95 years (for corporate works).
Very possible. I do think there are some big differences in the way that hip-hop is presented from other genres, but we'll see.
It could go anywhere lol It's still young like you said.
That is an interesting thought. With instrumentals and singing though there are things that are easier to embellish upon, whereas the art of rap is all in the word choice and beat. There's much less room to personalize songs in this way, so I would think that remixes would become more common as time goes, but I'm not sure about covers
One of your very best! Awesomely important analysis.
You're such an awesome machine drummer! Your technique, and skill, is second to none!
1:20 “I teach music education and THE HARMONIC STYLE OF 18th CENTURY EUROPEAN MUSICIANS”*
maybe he is teaching all of music theory :o
i guess this is gonna become the "end him rightly" of adam neely's channel
What do you mean by "end him rightly"? I'm assuming it's a reference I'm missing.
[Unscrewing pommel intensifies]
@@OrdinaryLatvian It's a meme in the historical European martial arts youtube sphere where you finish your opponent by hitting them with the pommel of your sword
A more accurate comparison would be stand-up comedy. Imagine doing a “cover” of someone else’s jokes.
Good analogy
that wouldn't make sense because it wouldn't compare to the thousands of other covers that span across every other genre
@@mason11198 The comparison would be to acting. You can reprise an acting role, but not a stand-up routine.
Funkybassuk You mean like this "cover" of Victor Borge's "Phonetic Punctuation"? czcams.com/video/i0dbF-CbWcM/video.html
As someone who isn’t a classical musician or whatever, the rap culture also isn’t, in the London rap scene stealing someone’s bars is the most disrespectful thing you can do and that’s the way we think of it, it’s just stealing
I am a Nigerian,I cover rap songs with the beats live on stage with the right amount of energy.I actually started doing it and oh boy,I found out the crowds have been dying to see it.Rap musicians, especially the upcoming ones should perform covers more,it is so refreshing to hear rap lyrics from another good rapper other than the original rapper.And it is an excellent form of live entertainment
Snoop Dogg has covered several rap songs, Slick Rick - La Di Da di, Biz Markie - Vapors, Eric B & Rakim - Paid in Full. And in 1997 there was a whole rap cover album called In tha Beginning... There Was Rap
Cover Song Types:
Minor interpretation
Major interpretation
Perfect 5th interpretation
Seven Dimished Interpretation
Nice
*ba-dum-PSH
I immediately thought of Oleg Berg's minor-to-major and major-to-minor conversions.
ETHAN HEIN!! this man was my old professor!
He‘s not thaat old... ;)
Hi Django
“He still is my old professor, but he used to be too.”
A good deal of rap songs are technically cover is on the basis that they lift hooks and instrumentals from previous songs. In fact many rappers write songs around other people's songs to create their own songs.
Bloodhound Gang’s cover of “It’s Tricky” is pretty cool though...😎
Also, a metal cover - czcams.com/video/UcPc7LFDhBQ/video.html
"99 problems" on acoustic guitar was beyond cringe.
Most acoustic covers of rap songs are cringe because they lack heart. It's usually some guy doing a rap song with basic chords or bar chords turning it into a semi-folksy or pop song.
You will find a few who actually love the songs they cover and it shows how much thought and skill they put to it. For these minor few, it's an act of respect, not a click-bait moment.
Two particular examples come to mind for good covers: Obadiah Parker's "Hey Ya (Outkast Song)" And That one guy that got a lot of crap because he covered Wu Tang Clans' "Shame on a N*##@"
The latter was such a shit show, because this white dude sang all the lyrics uncensored. After all it was said and done, Wu Tang CZcams Channel put his cover up officially on their own channel saying that Wu-Tang is for everyone.
Both songs pay tribute to the source, but also keep the same "spirit" of the song. And the artistry, along with the skill, always shows. Neither of these two guys are out for a click, but are doing it out of true passion because they obviously love the songs mentioned.
Range Wilson it was all the best cringe lol
@@jamjox9922 I'd say that SINGING instead of rapping when you're a singer is just staying in your comfort zone. There are some guys out there, white with an acoustic guitar, and they make it real by actually rapping. Rapping is a different skill, so if you can't do that, it's not like singing will save your ass, and I think that's why people singing rap song sound super lame.
@@danielhadida3915 yeah exactly, half the reason why rap sounds good is because the rappers are fully committing to how theyre saying the words. The way they make lines fit in a cadence and rhythm specific to their sentiment behind it. Someone singing the words just lacks meaning and substance and is corny as hell
"So, rap, right, there's the value of keeping it real..."
*cuts to book on bookshelf titled "keeping it saxy"*
Not even a book. It's a Kenny G board game lol.
"In other words…" pause, deep breath, slight sigh "…Bach kept it real."
A couple of people have mentioned some examples, but the one that comes to mind for me is Murs covering Common’s "I Used to Love H.E.R."
A big thing that MANY people forget is that the overall majority of music styles were created out of a base that originated before audio recording existed. Playing other people's music was an expected part of the music scene because that was the only way the music could spread. And people wanted to spread music they liked. Handing someone a cd or telling them where to download it was not possible. So they played it for them. This was an integral part of the music scene that was so deeply imbedded in it that by the time it was possible to share music this way, it was too late. Covers weren't going anywhere.
However, rap has no such roots. It's too new. Even if it has some elements of blues, the core of what makes rap, "rap" is too far separated to have brought that element of the culture with it. Because of this, that idea never developed. Combine with with the fact that a major facet of rap is self expression... That's literally only possible if you're expressing yourself. Originality is everything in rap. That's why it's the only genre that has battles like it does. Sure, there are "battle of the bands" in rock, but that's nowhere near the same thing. It's just each bland plays a song and people vote for their favorite. In a rap battle, they're literally battling. There are no covers for the same reason there are battles.
The idea of a cover is a relic of the past that never died.
Simultaneously, this is why rap, a genre so deadly intent on person originality has no issue with copying others work in terms of the backing beat, or music. How they'll sample anything and anyone and not consider it "biting"... because the music side of it has the roots in the old style, which covers are a part of. But the lyrical component... That's that part that makes rap "rap", and that's gotta be all you
There is a thing called "cutting heads" that's similar to a rap battle.
The impact of cheaper and easier distribution of songs is such a good point, actually.
I'm not sure this is entirely accurate. Neely stated in a video before. That bodies of work from composers were expected to die with them and their would always be another composer to replace them.
Lack of digital media I'm sure played a big part too. Good point on that one especially
That’s a cool hot take on it, I like to think when we listen to rap we tend to seek that individuality from the artist, the same way sort of applies to remix culture from DJs and producers.
In a way what’s exciting about the remixes is listening to a different and personal version of the song, wild remixes that change a lot of the song are seen as exciting, and when it doesn’t change a lot it’s seem as lazy and uninspired.
I think rap and freestyle often works in similar ways, this is a genre in which we appreciate how much the artist differentiates himself from others and establishes him own unique aesthetic, compared to other types of music in which the artist’s praise might come from how faithful he is to the genre’s conventions and aesthetic.
If you think other genres don't have battles you clearly haven't heard a latin contrapunteo or a mexican copla.
Here: czcams.com/video/pPz5OpblbF0/video.html
EDIT: Found a better link
Awesome. I'd like to hear Adam's thoughts on sampling in general.
Very slick production/edting, subscriped! Hahahaha
Almost everything that was discussed in this vídeo can be said about stand up comedy. Even when musical instruments comes along.
also if you "cover" somebody elses joke you get your ass whooped in the alley. sees it with my own eyes.
Beat me to it by 3 hours! Agreed!
Because you don't really go to a stand up show to listen to jokes you know. You go to experience someone's personality, through their jokes. I don't think rap is the same because rap is a form of music which can be performed by other people.
This is so true, stealing jokes is like stealing bars.
I was thinking of stand up comedy right when I saw the thumbnail.
Wraps already cover things...
Underrated comment
ha
no.
lmao
Bruh
I really enjoy your channel and the deep dives you do into music - even though I’m in no way musically educated in any way. I’ve always found the subject fascinating from the outside looking in - like the topic of music theory, modes, and generally why music works or doesn’t depending on so many variables. I don’t even know enough to articulate why I find it fascinating. But I do. And this channel feeds that fascination in ways I CAN understand. Thank you!
GOD DAMN THAT COVER U DID OF KING KUNTA WAS THE HARDEST SHIT EVER THO HOLY HELL
Yea fr. Stupid hard
"bach kept it real" was a sentence I tought I never would hear, but I'm glad I did
Bach.
@@timonsteup2877 sorry, didn't notice when I wrote it
Thought
@@viscosity7893 xD
The hip-hop version of "cover's" is sample's an lyric interpolation. Never a whole cover.
What about this? czcams.com/video/iQp4KPYRJb8/video.html
Remix?
@@semperxfix10 This isn't a remix. It's a complete remake of the track. This is definitely a cover.
@@foxnewsparrot2085 Elzhi did a cover of Nas’ Illmatic
I only watched 2 your videos before subbing. Killer Content!
This was the most interesting video so far (and I love this channel to begin with). :)
It's nice to see someone who's already a genius when it comes to the theoretical/technical aspects of music science
being just as sharp when it comes to the sociological parts.
Music doesn't exist in a vacuum after all.
Hip Hop is a young art-form. Most of the greats are still alive, with the exception of a few. In a few decades, it can be expected that there will be many more major covers of Hip Hop songs to pay homage or to continue the tradition of recurring generational nostalgia.
This seems like an exceedingly sensible take dude. Nice.
DOOM homage covers are def a thing now
hip hop is half a century old
@@easystreetphoto2401 its getting there but not quite. "Rapping" is also much older
@@easystreetphoto2401 Half a century is a short amount of time relative to the history of music, covers, and "sampling" or paying homage. Don't forget that copyright law is also much stricter and more enforced than ever in the age of digital music. Not anyone can sample the greats without paying up, and most musicians are not willing to place that amount of risk or wealth into the endeavor.
I just read that old mongolian calligraphy script at the background says “Adam
Neely”. As a mongolian that was really surprising
Adam went to Mongolia. Must be a keepsake from that! czcams.com/video/0oSHxPAFA5s/video.html
@@MIRobin22 well holy shit
Duran Duran featuring Grandmaster Melle Mel - White Lines (Don't Do It)
czcams.com/video/ct5wm_gy7tE/video.html
The only recent example I can think of is Mario Judah covering Rockstar.
By who, may I ask? Neither Post Malone nor Nickelback count as rap.
Two of the whitest guys you'll ever see explaining rap music
There certainly are real scenes that aren't black, especially outside the us.
Oh no white guys
Watch out; they might be straight and white
@Freddie Jones liberals.
@Freddie Jones white people making fun of white people for being white
"Children's Story" by Mos Def on the Black Star album is a line-for-line homage/parody to Slick Rick's song by the same title. The genius of it, though, is how the format of that fits the function. Rick's song was a cautionary tale about two kids who decide to start robbing innocent people and the inevitable consequences that follow. Mos Def's version is a cautionary tale about a young DJ who starts robbing (or biting) old music and making whack beats because it makes the record execs happy. Mos even makes himself a character in the song who appears and questions the kid about why he's being dishonest, selling out. The layers of meta-critique, along with how deftly Mos writes the lyrics to perfectly mirror the original rhythm and rhyme scheme, is staggeringly brilliant.
The point of Mos's version of "Children's Story" is that hip-hop is about being authentic, and both versions are ultimately about being accountable to your community.
I like what you say in this video about rap being vulnerable, and also how a hip-hop verse is similar to a Miles Davis solo. Even if you cover Davis's song, you wouldn't copy his solo note-for-note, you'd have to fill that in yourself. Being an MC is all about having something unique and authentic to say. If you just get up and rap someone else's words, you're posing.
As for being accountable to your community: hip-hop is constructed on making references to music of the past. You start with turn tables, mixing sounds from old records to create new songs. Then the MCs come on and put something new over it. As time goes on, MCs pinpoint iconic lines and rhythms, and they recycle them. "The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire!" "From the windows... to the walls!" A lot of Rakim's lines reached this iconic status, like: "I start to think, and then I sink / Into the paper, like I was ink." Just like in folk music, those refrains are touchstones to the tradition. They bond the audience together when they hear them, and the whole crowd can complete the refrain once the MC delivers the setup. But you can't just lift entire verses, or bite too much from an old beat. To be a real MC or DJ, you have to know the canon of hip-hop that came before, the canon of R&B, jazz, and rock that inspired hip-hop, be able to reference that history, but also be able to spit it back out in a fresh way.
All that said--though I can't think of a specific instance--I do feel like I've seen MCs in a live performance cover an entire verse of another MC, especially if it's a verse everyone in the crowd knows word-for-word so that everyone can perform it together. It becomes a communal experience that way. Again, that communal experience only comes from authentic love and celebration. If you did it just to prove how cool you are, I think you'd be booed off-stage.
I came to the comments to bring up this song and wanted to see if someone else already had. This was very well written and a million times better then my thoughts! 👍
@@J-K-A yeah same
ALL OF THIS
Digital Underground used to do at least a verse or 2 of artists like MC Hammer, Too Short... in a segment of the concert called Name That Rapper. They had props too, oversize faces and such. Sad that people are going to just believe Neely on this when he's dead wrong, rap has had covers.
@@womplestilskin I think Neely's point is still valid. Even if there are some occurrences of rap covers, you can't make a living as a hip-hop cover band. No one goes to a hip-hop show hoping they cover a bunch of MC Hammer or Rakim in the way that people go to rock, jazz, and folk concerts, often exclusively expecting cover songs.
Rappers do quite often "cover" specific bars from existing tracks - the issue with 'covering' an entire rap verse/song is that the genre identifies as personal expression via storytelling. We all share certain stories just by virtue of living our lives in similar circumstances, which is why different rappers have a lot of thematic overlap. But the key to unlocking that next level of skill as a rapper is unpacking those stories in a unique way, whether it is your lyrical content, or even how you deliver it vocally. Rap is a genre that is heavily clout-focused, where your reputation can in a very real way impact your popularity and relevance. This is why rappers often borrow a bar or two from other raps; the act of referencing is a respect move. There's a ton of examples of this across the genre, but it is a great question that I haven't seen addressed directly. Thank you guys for doing so!
I saw the title and thought “duh”
But i watched it and it was deeper than i thought
I always cover Eminem in the shower idk what you’re talking about
What with?
@@deliusmyth5063 soap.
crnkmnky
Oh, it's a threesome now!
Mom's spaghetti
Do you then pass out from the lack of oxygen?
I think a remix would be the equivalent of a cover in hip hop
Not really. Remixes add to the song. A cover is to do the song from scratch yourself.
@@sienile I mean the overall idea of making a remix is to do a song that has already been done. That's why I said "equivalent" and not "the same as"
@@sparrowkayuni5267 I get where you come from, but equivalent literally means the same as.
@@tomaszantochow8391 actually no, equal and equivalent are different www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/equivalent
This is what I was thinking ...
Such a great video that I watched it twice. Like others mentioned rap is storytelling and we want to hear your perspective. That’s why we can reuse a popular beat that’s our version of cover but still we want to hear your take on that beat
i was hoping mindless self indulgence would have been mentioned. If u were a teen in the 2000s their covers of rap songs were how i got introduced to the actual rap songs 😂
"How can he do a spoken word version of a rap song?"
"He found a way..."
Freestyling over no music is a longtime established thing.
That is indeed a reference I understand
“Could the real slim shady.... please stand up?... Please stand up? Please... stand up.”
czcams.com/video/yqf04PAeFnE/video.html
In rap, the homage is found in
a - quoting someone, as in Notorious BIG's "Hypnotize" vs Slick Rick & Dougie Fresh "La di da di,"
b - sampling them, see TI's "Bring em Out" vs Jay Z's "What More Can I Say", or
c - freestyling/remixing/flow borrowing, see Lil Wayne's "Upgrade U" vs Beyonce's "Upgrade U"
Performing someone else's song live (especially if you're already an established rapper doing it as a CLEAR hommage) is very different than doing it as an unknown, and even worse if you actually record it in attempts to turn a profit. Some rappers have even been essentially forced into retirement for sounding too much like another rapper (Gorilla Black with Biggie and Lil Zane with Tupac). Someone in the comments compared it to one comic telling another comic's joke. I would have to agree with that.
I can remember an instance where Seinfeld told a Louis CK joke, but he prefaced it with "this is a Louis CK joke."
Thanks for that :)
Which one is "children's story" by Slick Rick vs Mos Def?
@@MrGamelover23 established, similar to Rappers Delight by Sugahill vs Def Squad. Those are exceptions though.
Best segway of all your videos
Interesting points here, something I didn't know and hadn't even thought about. Thanks! Also, come on CZcams algorithm, this channel was clearly something that should be in my subs.
Lil Wayne has a song called "Dr. Carter" where he talks about how the difference between biting and recycling (or reciting) is about respect, and how it can be enlightening
"When I was in english class I was always writing...." Mind blowing I just realized that difference between art/english education and music education.
I think it's very odd indeed that music education, in some contexts at least, is like this. It seems to be quite a recent thing (80 years? 120?) and possibly on the way out, don't know, interesting subject.
I do think it may take a tid bit longer to learn how to make music as you have to basically relearn both how to read and write in music, which is difficult if you're unfamiliar with standard notation. But those problems mostly dissapear with a DAW
This was a great video. I would like to point out one of the best rap covers of all time. Mos Def’s cover Slick Rick’s “Children’s Story,” off of the Black Star album. Mos Def covers the same similar topics and every bar has the same ending rhyme, but with different lyrics. It’s so genius and creative. He found a way to express cover the song while still expressing himself. This is what Rap covers could/should be. This is the best Rap cover song.
I love Ethan for being a music teacher who actually acknowledges that rap is music. So many music teachers and elitists will say rap isn’t music.
Like Ben Shapiro's music theorist father who went to music school
Rapping itself isn't music, it is an art form, but it's not music! When you have a beat behind it it becomes music.
@@GrumpyStormtrooper There's definitely music without beats, and rapping definitely has a beat.
There's no reason to call rapping not music.
J.J. Shank Music is not just rhythm, it needs other elements. A kick drum by itself is not music, it's a rhythm. Same with rap, you can have a constant rhythm but for me it enters the realm of music when it has a track behind it (which is 90% of the time, unless it's an a capella rap)
@@GrumpyStormtrooper what if the beat is made up entirely of samples from John Cage's 4'33 ? Is it music then?