Do you need wood grain filler before your finish?
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- čas přidán 15. 07. 2024
- How an easy to apply goop can change the way you finish wood.
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As a new woodworker, this wasn't even a topic on my radar. You've taught me something new! It's this kind of content that brings me back to your channel again and again. Keep up the great work!
Same here its not always something I presently need but I just add it to the grey matter as filler for the future.
Dittos!
"I'll leave that up to the finishing experts to debate" 🤣🤣 I always enjoy your subtle tongue-in-cheek comments
I swear, this is the best woodworking channel on CZcams.
Just finished a walnut floor the customer had milled from his property. We used tong oil mixed 50/50 with a drying agent . We sanded with 220 after the first two coats and left the dust on the floor. then two more final coats . Then we buffed out the floor to remove any excess oil that hadn't completely dried. Came out mint! Beautiful smooth satin finish!
Thank you Mr Nubs. As always, you state YOUR opinion and experiences from past projects and we haven't been let down yet! !! !!!
I use the same filler as you have mentioned here first. Then I stain then use Sherwin Williams conversion varnish and get a nice result on red oak. Smooth to touch glass like finish. I won't use anything else now.
Also I've learned to use a card scraper first before sanding, it helps to remove it from the surface faster than sanding alone. Thanks
I still say you should/could have been a shop teacher. You remind me of Mr Pelley . Thank you so much for all you do!
Sometimes on a project with both solid wood and veneered parts I’ll grain fill the solid wood once to even out the grain depth disparity between the parts before french polishing.
Good idea :)
Hot tip. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing those tips!
I love your tips James! Thank you for taking the time Bud!
Perfect timing for my current project, a mahogany desk top. Thank you for all the information and hard work.
Kudos on another valuable piece on making the finish really pop. Thanks 😊
Concise, quality info as always. Thank you!
Hello from Ontario Canada, it amazes me how you keep moving forward and tackle every issue that arises with such thought and positivity!! I love to watch and find out how you overcome such things!
Cheers Ross
Extremely well explained. Fantastic shots (we can definitely see the difference). The best video on the topic that I’ve watched.
I was just looking for something like that...getting ready to use some Ash, and I wanted it smooth. Thanks!
Thanks, great info! Up until now I hadn't really understood the hows and why's of using a grain filler. As I get deeper into the hobby its harder to get concise information on many finish related topics, and your channel really helps by bringing clarity to the reams of information available.
Exactly what I was looking for!!!!!!! How did you know?????? Thanks Stumpy!!!!!!!!!
Good stuff James, especially if you're going for an automotive type of finish.
High gloss cabinets make for a beautiful finish & a striking effect for your kitchen, bar or home office.
I did a piece with mahogany veneer. It was the first time I had ever heard of grain filler. I crossed my fingers and gave it a try. Fast forward to the lacquer finish and I was so glad I did. I finally got that smooth, glass like, finish I had always seen but never had been able to achieve. I sanded the finish up to 2500 grit, used McGuire's swirl remover, then a final coat with McGuire's show room glaze. You could see your reflection in it. All that awsomeness started with grain filler.
Really enjoyed the video, great information and techniques. Thanks for sharing with us James!! 👍👍👏🏻👏🏻
I just started making some drawer fronts out of african mahogany. I'm going to give this a go when I get to the finishing stage, thanks!
Excellant advice. 60 years ago during shop class, I made a mahogany record cabinet and used a grain filler. I haven’t used it since but I may in the future.
Nice!!! I wish I could get it in my country!!!
Thank you for sharing!
Hi Jim. I always enjoy your videos. I hope your hand has fully recovered.
Wow! I had never heard about grain filler in all my years of mucking around with wood.
And I had never even asked the question about super-smooth finishes, on open-pored woods.
I have never seen it for sale, either!
But... I searched the tubes, and it seems some local stores sell a few different grain fillers, so I will go and get some.
Thank you, Stumpy Nubs - I learned something completely new today!
Fantastic. I used the same product for any open grain top. Oak, walnut, ash.
Like James says, multiple coats is the key.
thanks man, next project will go better with this!
Very good info, thanks for sharing!
Just used this recently on a project with birch ply, and then a painted finish. Came out with an ultra smooth finish. Easy to work, easy to sand. I applied my coats across the grain, and then removed excess with the grain. I have not tried this with a stain project yet, but I have console table project coming up that I think I will use it on. Good stuff.
I could see this coming in clutch for painted furniture. Especially cabinet doors. Thanks for another great video!
I've filled pores on red oak with spackle and then painted. Worked perfectly and MUCH less expensive than Aquacoat although I will try Aquacoat for a table project I have coming up.
I am not reading any mention of it being used for paint prep, only staining . Am I missing it ?
interesting. I've been refinishing persimmon golf clubs for years and use a stained grain filler after removing the old finish, after sanding the head but before staining the club. I was taught to lay it on thick and remove it with a burlap rag - works fantastic. I am new to wood working and hadn't really thought about grain filler for my word working pieces (though candidly as a newby I'm mostly painting the furniture pieces I make).
Great as always! Thank you!
Perfect, thank Stumpy
#1 woodworking channel
The last year has shown me that finishing is an art ( and i include sanding here ). There is more actual real world advice at Stumpy Nubs than a thousand 'manufacturers advice' on the side of tins. Can I also recommend the book Foolproof Wood Finishing? Thanks James.
This is a great tip Thank you!
Excellent video
I watch your videos and thought of this one when my son asked me to help him paint his kitchen cabinets. The cabinets are cheaper units and have oak plywood doors, his first house. I tried the aquacoat and found it did not really work that well. On my test door I was up to 7 coats and still had quite a bit of grain showing through. Watched you tube for other options and tired spackling compound. This went on easier and was easy to sand off. After 2 coats almost no grain was showing through. Also tried skim coat with bondo and worked great to cover grain but dried so quick it was a mess to work with.
Perfect timing. My brother wants me to build him an oak chessboard - something I've never done - but wants it to feel completely smooth. I'd never even considered the fact that anyone might not like the grooved nature of oak, as half the reason I use it for other things is for that curious look. Anyways, now I have an option for doing the oak and getting it smooth. Thanks!
Aqua Coat is great stuff. It also works great on your wood turning projects too
Definitely depends on what kind of finish you’re trying to accomplish. Some projects I’ve wanted the pores to be part of the visual impact and other projects I fill the pores. How I do that also varies based on project.
I've tried aquacoat a couple of times on African Mahogany and Sapele, and found that you must get it applied as evenly as possible, no areas thicker than others, as it will require quite a bit of sanding to even it out. Also, It was difficult to do a large area all at once, as it does dry fast, and makes it difficult to get the coats applied evenly.
My first try turned out rather blotchy as it didn't go down evenly - definitely a user error - but after some practice I was able to understand better how to apply it and get a better surface.
It does leave a nice, smooth finish though, but definitely took some practice to get it right!
Awesome tip! Thanks a lot, dude! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Chris at Driftwood Guitars has a great video series on preping for finish on his guitars, and he uses epoxy as grain filler. It's a really great video and gets a super clean mirror-finish w/out coloring the wood at all.
I'm about to mill a couple of walnuts off my property, hope I remember this when I finally get to start using it. 2-3 years from now.
Before I retired from the painting trade I brushed on "Sanding Sealer" which is a thickish water-thinned cloudy liquid. It is quick to dry and sands down to a perfect finish in just a few swipes. I never had to apply more than one coat since it will "stack" as thick as you like. It may be applied as quickly as paint and is thus far quicker than this method.
Great video! Good Job!
Very useful. Thanks.
thank you
I appreciate the filler tip. I am probably in a definite minority, but I have seen, but never used fillers. The ones I saw in stores in the past appeared "muddy" in the jars and I didn't want anything to "muddy" the natural grain of my projects.
I have a piece of claro walnut burl I took a slice of that I tested this on because it's so full of tiny and complex holes in the grain and I wanted a preview of how it would look. I sealed one side with a dewaxed shellac and did not seal the other side. I then applied 3 coats of this grain filler to both sides with sanding as per instructions. I applied arm r seal over the entire thing. The sealed side looks great. The unsealed side is quite splotchy. I think the water based grain filler soaked into the wood on the unsealed side where it was more porous and sealed it meaning parts of the wood came out looking like they were sealed with a water based finish and parts have the greater depth of an oil based finish/over shellac. Both sides are much smoother than before sealing. In the future I will rub on a light coat of dewaxed shellac before using the grain filler.
Thank you
Good video. Thanks!
James, I recently used a grain filler made by Solarez on some oak night stands with good results. The product cures in 3 minutes with exposure to sunlight so you can really speed up this process. 3 coats are recommended. It imparts a slight ambering effect to whatever wood you’re using.
I like to add a touch of dye to the grain filler and add it to the raw wood. This can make the pores pop on a boring piece of wood and bring it to life.
thanks
I restore a lot Antique furniture and old tube type radios which they used a lot mahogany and when working with this I use both grain filler and Dyes and toner also Shellac.
Thanks for the info.
I’ve used grain fillers quite a bit. It’s my understanding that the seal coat first recommendation is when using a colored filler to keep the color from bleeding or muddying the wood around the open grain. I’ve not experimented, but using the seal coat takes little time and I figure can’t hurt.
On oak I’ve for years been using Rock Hard Water Putty before I stain, it absorbs the stain to the same tone as the oak and can give that dead smooth finish
Thank You For The Info!!!! Good To Know!!!! 👍😎
Great tip.
I started using sanding sealer last year. But the product is usually a brush-on liquid, which can be difficult to prevent runs on the edges.
I'm also curious as to how well this works on end grains. I usually use standard wood filler, especially for MDF.
Good to see your Red wings cup Oilers fan myself
Very interesting !
Great video as always thx.
Have you ever made a video about shop organisation ? Where to place machines, tools, etc ?
Good one buddy!
I have been wondering if I needed that sealer. Am painting cabinets and will forego the sealer. If I were staining or dyeing I would probably seal. Thanks for the demo
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
Great tip, I've always tried (and pretty much failed) using multiple coats of polyurethane
Nice and timely tips Stumpy. Have you had the opportunity or have an opinion about using this filler on Ash wood with no stain and Osmo hard wax oil as a finish?
I really like Timbermate wood filler
When you want it smooth grain filled speeds up the process. That and wood conditioner are staples in my shop.
I tend to just use several coats of poly, it does the job but takes about six coats to completely make it smooth. And Since my poly tends to dry out before I get through it, well, I don't see this as wasting it. At least it's getting used before it dries out.
If you live near a Rockler store, I’ve bought Aqua Coat there in the past.
I could have used this product prior to making my corn hole boards out of oak veneer, after twelve coats of poly I can still feel the grain
For me a must do for surfaces exposed to a lot of use such us table tops. I've seen many oak tables after years of use, their pores black, filled with grime.
that explains so much......
Wet sand with Tung oil along the grain to create slurry then use an old plastic credit card to gently scrap the slurry against the grain to fill. Takes a few passes and has a drying time, but it’s my favorite way.
I work for a custom aircraft manufacturer. We use 3 rounds of clear grain filler before applying a series of " build" coats for that glass finish
So like others I had no idea about this, so thank you. With that, I have already filled knots and voids epoxy. How will that effect using this before applying the Poly? FYI it is a table made from cottonwood and walnut.
The Aquacoat looks very easy to use. The questions I have are:
What is the coverage i.e. how many square feet per pint?
What is the shelf life of opened and unopened containers?
Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay healthy.
Those are questions for the manufacturer. Stumpy isn't a rep of theirs and this video isn't to show off that filler specifically. He's just showing what he's using because he's gotta use something.
I will never understand how you don't have 2M subscribers... YET!
I’d guess nearly all of Stumpy’s subscribers are actually woodworkers. Not a lot of jump cuts/blasting music/weird clickbait projects. More your PBS crowd and less HGTV... and don’t get me wrong I like a lot of those other more entertainment focused channels too, but there’s a lot to be said for a more didactic style.
Grain filler is used on most acoustic guitars. Look at the mirror finish on the back of one, to get an idea of its effectiveness.
What a coincidence! This video came out literally two hours after my friend approached me with this exact problem! He's got kitchen cabinet doors that he's looking to repaint. Thing is, he's got doors that are already fully sealed -- not just one seal-coat, but rather, fully commercially sealed. Would this product work on a FULLY sealed/painted piece?
Never heard of the stuff, but willing to take your advice! Red oak has always been a pain in the neck. Thx....
When I first played with red oak, I'd do 1 Coat poly, then black or any color paint to fill the pores of the wood and poly over.
I will try that again next week, just for fun.
Red oak and red paint!??!
James, you and Spags have now explained why I was confused. Use logic, not directions if you understand the wood you’re finishing. Thanks man!
Based on your recommendation, I bought a jar of Aquacoat and used it on a test project. My top coat was shellac dissolved in 91% isopropyl alcohol. (Can't buy denatured in California) As soon as I started brushing on the shellac, the filler partially dissolved and came loose and spoiled the finish. My order of application: Sand to 320-- water based stain--dry overnight-- shellac--dry 1 hour--Aquacoat squegeed into the wood surface--dry overnight--sand with 400--brush on shellac--.
Have you tried shellac on Aquacoat filled wood? Is it the alcohol which I presume has 9% impurities (water?) I love using shellac and French Polishing my pieces. I'll do some more experimenting and hope to hear from you, I didn't get a helpful response from Aquacoat.
Thanks, Paul Lipton
For new or weekend workers? On the other hand, I've been a semi professional wood worker for 20 years, and my father was for around 60 years... And i e never heard of this till now! Very interesting too!
Is there any restriction to what can go over this stuff? Just poly? Oils ok(BLO)?
I just finished building a book case out of red oak. Would you use this grain filler on it? Do you sand by hand between all coats? Would you ever pre-fill and pre-finish the wood before you assembled the bookcase, instead of after construction? Thank you for your thoughts!
Thanks, now I know what woods avoid, heh.
Do you know much about cleaning open pore finished wood? I'm building an electric guitar and initially I was definitely set to fill the grains with sandpaper as I apply the finish but the Mahogany body blank I got is just so beautiful I felt it would be a shame to cover that up. I will be applying oil finish I got from Crimson Guitars with five coats at least and there isn't much information out there about open pore oil finished wood.
What do you suggest doing when applying to already stained wood? Sanding in between coats of this would take my stain down.
Thx for the great vid. I always find it hard to find specific information on specific woods when it comes to "open pored" woods. Lots of contradictory information. Happen to have an opinion on whether this is needed for sapele?
Apart from used rimu from demolished buildings, hardwoods are difficult to get hold of in New Zealand, so we tend use timber old furniture etc. Some of this can be very dry and does not plane well. For instance I am using some oak at the moment to make spinning wheel bobbins, and the grain is very pronounced in places. So would that be a case for wood filler rather than grain filler?
Crap, I wish I would have known this a few weeks ago. Thank You.
I prefer my wood to be like, wood. If the wood has open pores, to me that's part of the wood and why do we want to hide that? Everyone has their own taste so it's up to you but here's a test - take a piece of wood - or maybe a few (walnut, maple, oak,...) cut the pieces in half so you have book matched pieces. With one half do an oil finish (my favourite is Watco teak oil but tied and true is also good and there are others). On one side apply the oil, more oil, sand with 400 or 600 while still wet, let dry, more oil, sand wipe off excess, dry oil, sand and finally when good and dry apply wax with 0000 steel wool or fine scotchbrite pad. Allow to dry and buff. On the other half apply the filler and top coat of choice - use a semi-gloss to match the gloss of the wax finish (you get a higher gloss on the wax with another wax coat and power buffer if you really want to compare a high gloss finish). Once both are cured show people and ask them to pick which they like best. I have done this and get far more in favour of the oil/wax finish. One of the biggest arguments against is that the finish is not as durable and I agree it will mark more easily than a poly or lacquer finish it is easy to fix if needed. My dining room table - wipe on poly, everything else oil and wax. (Well my guitars are french polish - shellac). So Stumpy how about a comparison finish competition. I get 90% plus people preferring the oil and wax - based on look and feel.
Could you apply a hardwax oil after filling the pores?
Your vids rule bro.