What is Jon Snow's real name?
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 03. 2024
- Explore the best of fantasy and sci-fi in depth, with analysis of the worlds of Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, The Witcher and more.
For more A Song of Ice and Fire content: • Secrets of Winterfell ...
Join me on Patreon - / indeepgeek
My channel for live content, including interviews and weekly livestreams - / @idglive
My audiobook channel: The Well Told Tale - / thewelltoldtale
Follow me on:
Twitter - @indeepgeek
Instagram - indeepgeekofficial
Facebook - / indeepgeek
TikTok - @indeepgeek
For merch, audiobooks, and all things In Deep Geek, explore my website - www.indeepgeek.com
Thank you to the talented artists who allowed their work to be featured in this video. You can find them and buy your own prints by following the links below:
Amok - / amokrus
This video was brought to you with support from my amazing Patreon community - special thanks to
Stephanie Frederick, Joshua Clark, Maura Lee, Rabbi Rob Thomas, Amelia Scales Brooke Geer Person, Josh Bielemeier, Jane, Vance, Amy Southerland, Ivie Hilburn, Jimmy, Vercingetorix, John-Paul DeLuca, Filbert, Frank Glad, lemmy101, The Lady Gordon, Edward Ryan, Stephanie B, Coleen, Ben Androvich, Nana L, Brennan Barnes, Ivanka Hainzl, Howland’s Little Sister, Charis Messalina de Valence, Donna Daley, Cade Norman, Murray D, NOscar, Rick Hoppe, Leathery Wings, James Pisano, Bridget Boyle, TheStarkInWinterfell, Ellemcee, Alannah Prestayn of Braavos, Raymond Joy, Jonathan Harrison, Petyr Pebble, Jason Mauleon Rosario, Milton Christopher Appling, Edward Ennett, Katy Smith, 26Artgirl, Karen Thomas, Rickon, Cathrine Furseth, James Fitzpatrick, Doug Hughes, lawnduck20, Perseffanie, Emily Mole, Lady Dane, The Late Escapist, Natalie Donald, J. Gregory Henderson, whalawitsa, Luna Cascade, Dan MacKay, Johnny Targs, Kevin Warner, Julie Bernard, Bear, Susan Lonergan, Bo Riley, Lyle Hammac, Alex Butter, Pam Peterson, Bettina Charlotte Nielsen, T boz, Angela Marie Young, Sarah Awesomesauce, Stephanie Erickson, KaliKo_Jack, SeaGreenMango, GeorgeRRTolkien, Antihero Association, Richard Woodard, Caiden Timmons, ThatVBGuy, Tyler Barnhart, John H. Austin, Jr, NikFromNJ, Ty Farnsworth, Beesman, EJ, Willow Button, Julia Kendall, Jonny Ceriani, Mary Frances Angelini, Emma Sheiman, Joseph Jones, Christine Denny, Julien Dubois, Leland, Max Kingdom, Tricia Brady, LiK, Simen Dalstein, Scott Maraldo, Shelley J, Karen Wennerlind, Nathan Drumm, Martin Sjöstrand, Kristen H, King of Imps, Minerva Gale, Eric Nelson, Michiel Venema, Kate, Brandie Roberts, Kendra Summers, reed m, Commander Ray, Mayra Lawson, Lola Roebuck, Mark P, Nicole Stewart, Norse Sultan, Rasler, Steven Spaulding, Your Last Great kNight, Patrick Ward, Amy vh Hines, Slippery1989, Una Haller, Almo71, Ravi Kakarala, Jacob Culp, Janet Lyn, NikFromNJ, Magepie, Ms. Fox, Jon Greenwood, Jahan, Justice, Courtney, Biscuit Jones, Biscuit Jones, Cookie Tywyn, Ranabir Mitra, CRChesnutt, Kip Ingram, Savannah Smith, Tadeo D'Oria, Mario Murray, Leland, AaronM127 and Denis Warner
Affiliate Links - (buying books from our Bookshop.org shop supports this channel and local bookshops at no extra cost to you.)
Books for fans of A Song of Ice and Fire:
uk.bookshop.org/lists/a-song-...
Other books we love:
uk.bookshop.org/shop/indeepgeek
Thanks for watching!
(All pictures used are in the public domain, or used under fair use copyright laws, or with the express permission of the artist). - Zábava
There has never been a Targaryen king named Aemon. Yet, every Targaryen named Aemon was a great man.
I'm pretty sure there were some Aemons who were nothing special. It was a common name among both Targaryens and Blackfyres. Most Aegons with younger brothers had a brother named Aemon.
@@magister343On House Targaryen there was only Aemon son of Jaehaerys, Aemon the Dragonknight and Maester Aemon. All good and wonderful persons.
Jon is still the Corn King no matter what. The crows even said it.
Aemon to that, brother
@@ContactsNfilters what??
Tamuel Sarly
Bean Sean
Loffrey Jannister
Ghaera Targayren
Bong Strelwas
Boose Rolton
Liana has spent the entirety of the war hidden away and most certainly does not know Aegon son of Elia is dead. Calling Rhaegar's second son Aegon as well is very strange, especially because he was never meant to be heir.
Unless the Septon annulled the first marriage to Elia?
People new about Tower of Joy. There were at least 3 more people there with her (+ probaly a maestar) that Rhaegar left behind. Do you really think they wouldn't have any possible way to communicate with Rhagear and the outside world in the middle of war where the goals is to kill Targaryens and remove them from the throne? If they couldn't communicate who told Ned where Lyanna is after King's Landing was sacked?
Also, and it may be different in the Seven Kingdoms, but I would see it as a HUGE insult for the Lyanna to name her son after Rhaegar's first son. That's like spitting on Rhaegar's family even more than they already had
@@Calla1995 it think it would probably be after ageon the conqueror and to portray jon as prince that was promised, not after baby ageon
@@valleyscharping That would defeat the whole point. It just renders his first two kids illegitimate. I'd say polygamy or he just planned to legitimize his third child upon becoming king. The latter makes sense since he seemed to believe he still had a part to play in the prophecy, which doesn't make sense once Lyanna is impregnated.
I have another theory. We're told Lyanna and Arya are much alike, at least as children. What if there was no love affair OR kidnapping. What if it was transaction. She wanted out of the betrothal to Robert and possibly a life of adventure. She give Rhaegar the third kid he wanted, which pretty much kills the betrothal, and he gives her the resources to live an independent life. Still pisses off the Starks, but Rhaegar didn't seem bothered about that anyway.
I’ve always liked the idea of Jahaerys. That he was named for the conciliator and not the conqueror. We already have an Aegon, invading Westeros like his namesake likely wielding the conqueror’s sword. But Westeros doesn’t need a conqueror, it needs a unifier, which Jon can be.
I always thought John was a cover for his real name Jahaerys.
Conquers are unifiers tho that's kinda part of it .
@@thatoneblackdude3333 There is a big differnce between uniting through a field of fire, and thought other methods.
@@joperhop what methods do you think Jon would unite westaros in its current form ? Cause it's not going to be through peaceful means ether he's not a peace keeper he's a conquer type like daeron 1 your conflating show Jon with book Jon .
@@thatoneblackdude3333 It remains to be seen what Jon shows to be in the next book. No way to know how much death changes him.
Aemon! Please, George, let it be Aemon 😭😭
Aemon is literally perfect tho
There’s so many Aegon Aemon brother combos. It’s such a good fit
I clicked this Video just to comment this lol like the Maester who mentored him and the Greatest Kings Guard Knight ever.
@@jotusaini7886 and Jon is a Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, another organization with similar vows
yeah but why would Lyanna name her son Aemon 😅
Aemon. I feel like Martin is Sassy enough to have Jon think he is not Aemon Targarian and then have that be his other name.
Got to disagree on this one. At the point that Lyanna would have named her son, Rhaegar and his family were dead, the Targaryen dynasty was in tatters, and she was dying in a tower with no allies except the three Kingsguard and her brother - and she presumably didn’t know that Ned was on his way. Her baby’s future must have looked pretty bleak. If she named him at all, I doubt she’d have chosen Aegon just because it best fit with Rhaegar’s prophecy obsession - poor girl probably believed her baby was going to be found by angry rebels and murdered - and the idea that she named him after Elia’s Aegon is pretty ghoulish. I think Aemon works better. Rhaegar corresponded with Maester Aemon, so it’s plausible that he told Lyanna about him, and Aemon at this point was living on the Wall in the north that Lyanna was missing so much. Naming her son Aemon would honour his Valyrian heritage while also giving him some small connection to the north.
Also Lyanna seems like the kind of girl who would've looked up to the likes of Aemon the Dragonknight just like Jon did. If she had to pick a Targy name, I think that may be the main shining example in her mind.
If lyanna was also convinced that rhaegars son will be the Prince that was Promised its very likely for her to call him aegon. Because after the death of rhaegars Firstborn son, she will probably be convinced, that HER son is the actual Prince
Her situation looking bleak really wouldn't effect her choice of names in that capacity.
Ive always supported Jaeherys. Its a J name and the original Jaeherys was "the conciliator" which I think is a big part of Jons story
Jon is not a conciliator he's nothing like og king J .
Oh damn did u come up with that on your own 😮😅
Literally his main plot lines are all about making friends in unusual places, bringing people together and forging alliances. Jon's the best conciliator in the whole damn series.@@thatoneblackdude3333
Jaeherys wife was basically Sansa. Be careful about names.
My wildcard prediction goes like this: Rhaegar was convinced he would have little Visenya, so when discussing this with Lyanna, the topic of what he would name a second son would come up, and perhaps he wouldn't have given it the thought such a decision demands, because he's totally right about the prophecy. So he ends up going the Duncan the Small route and suggests Jon, for his good friend Jon Connington.
It's possible, perhaps Rhaegar and Lyanna agreed if their child was a boy, to name him Jon in honor of Jon Connington, Rhaegar (probably) knew Jon Connington had romantic feelings for him but nothing could come of it, so naming the baby after his friend was the best he could do to reward his friend's affection. Though we might be missing something or rather someone else obvious: Arthur Dayne, Rhaegar's best friend. I know "Arthur Targaryen" instantly makes us think of King Arthur and how GRRM likes to subvert tropes, which he does, but he doesn't discard them entirely. plus in Jon's case he has to establish the trope in order to subvert it.
If it tracks MS&T naming Lackhand’s son Deornath, you’d be right.
@@Knight860Arthur Targaryen is my 'guilty pleasure' theory. There was a Prince Duncan afterall, and Arthur gives that vibe of being Ducan to Rhaegar's Egg (although most likely closer in age). And you know, Arthur brought the Dawn with him wherever he went :)
@@LusiaEyre True, and I also wonder however confident Rhaegar was of coming out of the war alive and well, he or probably one of the Kingsguard (possibly Arthur) had to entertain the possibility of Rhaegar and his father losing and what to do then. Perhaps Arthur Dayne was tasked with basically being the kid's godfather, that could explain why Arthur Dayne fought to the death against Ned or maybe in line with Robert's theory Howland Reed told Arthur what he knew and that baby Jon was important to the coming war for the dawn. Arthur maybe kills Oswald Whent and Gerald Hightower (if they're not already dead) and then does himself in, or allows Howland Reed to kill him.
@@Knight860
Or he buggers off?
Jon reflects on a memory where he is sparring with Rob and Jon says “I’m the Dragon Knight”. Aemon. He says what his true name is.
I agree with others, it is unlikely that Lyanna would know that baby Aegon is dead.
Ravens?
@@michaelbayer5094 sent by Lannister fan boy Pycelle from the actively burning capital?
@@Walkth15way It's not logical to think there was not comminication when it was possible. Also, Lyanna was at the Tower for her protection while pregnant, but she was not a prisoner. She would have known what had happened.
@@michaelbayer5094 but I doubt they had a maester to hand, maybe a rider could take a message to them from Starfall and the Daynes
@@Walkth15way she was pregnant. Rhaegar would never leave her without a maester
12 minutes to say "We don't know." 😂
It's a good watch anyway though. I enjoy any ASOIAF theorizing
Im sure this idea has been floated out there before, but I haven't seen it, so I wanted to give my 2 cents. In ancient Egypt a mother would give their child a name only they and the kid knew, and then a name everyone else called them. The real name was the one only the mother knew as to protect the child from curses. I wonder if this was inspired by that
and when the mother pronounces the full name, the child must appear immediately! to answer for their crimes or face certain damnation
I am still convinced it is Jaehaerys because you can read Jon as short for Jaehaerys. Thus Ned would have been using Jon's real name the whole time. Besides, I'm sure that 'The Conciliator' would have appealed to Lyanna a lot more than Aegon did.
Unless Lyanna is pro-Targ as much as she is anti-Baratheon. Maybe we need to see her "joining" Rhaegar as running away from her family, their anti-Targ alliance, and a marriage to Baratheon. Then she would want her son to be a conqueror. She doesn't want peace with the man who killed her husband; she wants Baratheon dead.
How in the bloody hell is Jon short for Jaehaerys? They share 1 letter lol. By that logic, Bill is short for Bennington.
Nicknames are usually based on sounds, not letters. The first syllable of Jaehaerys, Jae, sounds very similar to Jon.@@trentsteffes8927
Jon is the closest version to that name that can be passed off as a regular non-Targ name. If Ned was trying to think of something to call "Jaehaerys" that was somewhat similar to his real name without it being obvious, "Jon" would have been the perfect choice, when you add on the Jon Arryn connection. "Jason" might have been a bit closer at least with the first syllable, but it doesn't have any personal connection. @@trentsteffes8927
@@trentsteffes8927I mean, Chuck and Charles only share two letters making a single sound, Peggy shares nothing at all with Margaret, Joe is just using the first syllable of Joseph. I could totally see someone spending time in another house or culture having a 'localized' name.
Interesting ideas, Robert! Thank you.
I spent a lot of time reading the comments section, and I enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts! ❤
If Jon was originally given a Targareyan name, then I'm partial to either Aemon or Jaehaerys. 👑
Rhaegon- a mix of the two best names.
Rhaegon Vyseris Aemon Dave Targyboy.
Dave 😂😂😂
Jaegon and Ned was like "Lets cut the aeg"
You had me at Dave!
The roast of James Franco has a great joke making fun of his brother Dave... You look like you have been afflicted by a debilitating case of Dumb Face
I love this, but as a Reagan I’m biased.
I HATE -THE ANTICHRIST- JON'S FANFICTION NAMES. I HATE -THE ANTICHRIST- JON'S FANFICTION NAMES
7:10
You forgot the third reason: Aemon son of Jaehaerys and Aemon the Dragonknight both were secondborns with an elder brother named Aegon. Aemon son of Jaehaerys in particular became the Heir because of Aegon's death as a baby.
Then there's Aegon II and Aemond, whose name only has a D at the end literally because it's supposed to match Daemon. And Maester Aemon and Aegon V, which are age-reversed but still two brothers close in age with the two names. It's pretty much Targ tradition that if you have an Aegon and then have another son you should name him Aemon.
Great vid as always IDG. Def a long debated and interesting facet of ASoIaF. I always tended to lean towards Aemon myself , given the Maester Aemon relationship / connections not only to Jon but with Jon's father Rhaegar as well and quite a few parallels with Jon and Aemon the Dragonknight. Jaehaerys / a good Targ and a conciliator which is a role Jon often plays , also in the mix but seems less likely. Also as the vid mentioned , considering RT was trying to recreate Aegon I / his sister-wives / 3 heads of the dragon and expecting a female baby they would have named Visenya. Viserys an obvious alternative for a male but already was a Targ child named Viserys out there who was not well liked & had a poor reputation so also less likely imo.
I had not really thought of the Egg references around Jon from Maester Aemon as potential foreshadowing here for "Aegon" but good spot Robert. Aegon is definitely possible , the prophetic significance which it seems Lyanna was very much on board with / helping facilitate , also potentially honoring RT's dead son Aegon , and also the most iconic and identifiable male Targ name to everyone in or out of the Targ family. So if Lyanna was somewhat put on the spot with Jon being male (instead of expected female) and the deaths of Rhaegar and his son Aegon quite close together i could see her going that way. Some of my hesitations with Aegon for one we do not know for sure (unless i am mistaken) the information of Aegon's death reached Lyanna before Jon was born. And if she didn't know wasn't typical to have two Aegons in roughly the same generation. Which is another reason I am against Viserys as well , not only VT's reputation but more simply a Viserys Targ child already out there. Usually not a plurality of the same Targ names in the same generations.
I still personally prefer Aemon myself if i were picking / (but of course I am not) and Aegon is a very strong contender and very well could be Jon's actual Targ name. Hope to get this definitive reveal sooner rather than later.
Well put and I agree. Especially that unknown if Lyanna even knew of Aegon's (Rhaegar's son) death before Jon was born. That is somewhat critical info in this instance. At least if she knew could be she wanted to honor that Aegon's death or they had in depth discussions that an "Aegon" would be the promised prince. Also if Lyanna knew Aegon was dead there wouldn't be that multiple Aegons of the same generation possibility which is very rare in the Targ family. There weren't often multiple of the same Targ name within each Targ generation but Aegons especially so. Hopefully we just get the full reveal from GRRM via the books but do wonder if GRRM would answer that question if Lyanna knew of Aegon's (Rhaegar's son) death before Jon was born. Though i suspect that might be one George wouldn't answer.
@@AlexBB77 i agree , George probably wouldn't answer that question but wouldn't mind if someone tried at one of those cons or one of those events GRRM does and see what happens. And yeah thats the missing info , we can assume Lyanna knew but we just do not definitively know one way or the other at this point. If we get clarity that LS did know of Aegon's death prior to Jon's birth the Aegon naming makes a lot more sense.
Hello Robert, thank you for all your great work!
I can see Elia, coming from the significantly more sexually enlightened Dorne culture being ok with Rhaegar having a "paramour," especially if he had previously sold her on the prophecy angle. Which I personally believe they had an understanding about. Rhaegar doesnt seem the type to impulsively seek other women to "step out" with. Elia realised she couldn't physically withstand another pregnancy but still wanted to help her husband. If anyone feels differently or i am forgetting something, please discuss!
yea she might be used to it but she isn’t in dorn anymore. she lives in the seven kingdoms and with their marriage annulled means his kids with her will be looked at as illegitimate. that doesn’t do so well with the royal family since it could spark another red vs green or targ vs black fire civil war between the kids as they grow up. not to mention how elias home country and family will take the slight and to lose future control of dorne and the seven kingdoms as one through her children. too much to lose in the game of thrones.
Jonathan Snowman
Jonaerys Snowball.
His name is Robert Paulson!...
The first rule of the Nights Watch is you do not talk about the Nights Watch! The second rule of the Nights Watch is you DO NOT talk about the Night's Watch!
If it's your first night, you fight
His name is Robert Paulson
Dunkin' Toungaryen.
Its some where in the first or second book when Jon is thinking about deserting, he thinks about Maester Aemon talking about how he was tested 3 times. Jon thinks something along the lines of "but I am no Aemon Targaryen". I think thats pretty right in your face of what his name is. similar to Melisandre seeing "Snow" (with a capital S) on the Iron Throne
Jon is the first character to bring up and explain the historical significance of King Jaehaerys I, when showing Ygritte the tower they pass south of the Wall. This has always led me to believe that would be his actual name.
I don't think Lyanna would have named him Aegon, particularly because I doubt she knew that Prince Aegon was dead.
For her to find out there must have been ravens at the Red Keep for the Tower of Joy and the Lannister simp Grandmaester Pycelle would have had to send that message. Seems doubtful.
The only other way would be if someone fled the sack of King's Landing with the message, and they would have needed to know where the Tower of Joy was and that Rhaegar had left Lyanna there, pregnant with his child. That'd be some extremely privileged information.
I completely support this. I want to know how Robert just jumped to the conclusion that Lyanna had knowledge of anything going on after Rhaegar’s death. Hell, I’d like to know if she even knew about THAT death, let alone her boyfriend’s other son.
If anyone knew that info itd be either varys or littlefinger
Unless Bran, or Doc Brown and Marty McFly, jumped back in time to tell Lyanna that Aegon was killed, there is no way that she could possibly know that.
EXACTLY
??? Aegon died at the Sack of King's Landing, which was ongoing when Ned arrived in the city. Then Ned goes on a long journey to Storm's End and then finally to the Tower of Joy to find Lyanna. At this point Aegon's been dead for a least several weeks if not months, while the Kingsguard at least seem to already know about some major events that happened at the Sack (i.e. Aerys dead, Robert king, etc). So actually the likelihood of Lyanna NOT knowing Aegon was dead is incredibly low and mostly dependent on the Kingsguards keeping it a secret from her for no reason. No time travel required.
I'm convinced Jon's true name is Aemon Targaryen. The clues are all over the place in the books.
I would really like it if he was named after maester Aemon. We know Rhaegar used to send him ravens and ask for advice and stuff so you could say that they were close.
I feel like there's a slight plot hole here: the idea that Lyanna gives "Jon" a Targaryen name must reasonably be precluded by her believing Rhaegar is still living. If she knows Rhaegar is dead (and I don't think SHE does), there is no way she'd give her child what is tantamount to a giant target on his back for Robert. None. And if she believes Rhaegar is still alive, why would she then use the name of his first son that everyone publicly knows about? I actually think Aegon is the farthest from what Jon's Targaryen name would be (if he has one).
I want it to be Aemon, in my head it is. I hate it being Aegon.
Ned being "not" described as basic is hilarious
"I'm Aemon the Dragon Knight!"
I really want Jon's name to be Brandon, I think that's a pipedream tho. I do think, given what we know about Liana, that she would act independently and name him after not only her brother, but more importantly a traditional Stark name. It creates some really interesting parallels and connections to the story and history of the north/westeros as well. My pet theory being Jon being a 'Brandon the Breaker' and Bran being a 'Brandon the Builder' based on how they are used in the story and GRRM's penchant for myths and prophecies being called back to regularly.
I like that a lot. Brandon Targaryen would be very ice and fire
It’s nice but if she did name him that ned doesn’t really need to change Jon’s name. If jon does have a secret name it’s probably covered up by ned because it sounds like something he wouldn’t name his child, say aegon. But him calling a child Brandon is completely believable, and he basically does that later when naming bran. What I’m saying is there’s no way it Brandon.
@@ohhibob1006 I think Honorable Ned naming his bastard after his murdered brother the heir to Winterfell wouldn't have gone over very well.
@@tfh535 There are Stark bastards named Brandon in the ASOIAF lore (Brandon Snow, half brother to Thorren Stark for example), so I'm not sure it would have been that big a deal. Maybe more so to Catelyn because she was betrothed to Brandon orignially 🤔....
But honestly if Lyanna did truly choose a Stark name for her son (she still lived when Ned got to the Tower of Joy, she made him make promises, why not also tell him the name of the child he'll look after) why would Ned feel the need to change it? That makes more sense - provided the R + L = J theory is true, (and I personally believe it is) - if she gave him a Targaryen name.
@@ohhibob1006there’s definitely ways around this. Im not saying it is, but if Jons name was Brandon you could make it work, didn’t want to name his “bastard” Brandon. Maybe Ned had already wanted to name one of his own sons Brandon, and even though Brandon is a very common stark name, naming two of your sons even if they are half siblings would have probably come off as pretty odd. I’m now im not saying his name is Brandon but personally I think a northern first name makes sense for jon to have been given a northern name. Since it is a song of ice and fire. Plus Rhaegar wasn’t there when the child was born.
I believe his name is Inigo Montoya and they killed his father (both of them, actually).
I assume Rhaegar told Lyanna about the prophecies and what he believed would come for his children....
So, assuming she knew that Aegon is "the prince that was promised" and knew Aegon was dead (which is likely) aegon is likely..
More a question though: how much did she tell ned? How much did he promise? How much did he believe, as he is very "down to earth"
Will Jon be angry, once he learns that Ned lied to him? That the choice of what to do with his "claim" was taken from him?
Rhaegar could not have known that his son Aegon was dead because his son died later....
First Rhaegar died (during the Battle of the Trident) and then his son Aegon died (during the capture of King's Landing*).
So Rhaeagr at the time of his death knew that all his children were alive and did not know that they would die....
That's why I don't think he wants SECOND Aegon... TWO Aegon's?
*Varys saved Aegon, we meet him in A Dance with Dragons.
@@barteko.5218 yeah i know, Rhaegar didn't know Aegon died, but he will probably have told lyanna something alonh the line: there is a prophecy, my son Egon is the prince that was promised, the dragon mist have three heads, my daughter is one, the daughter you'll be having will be the other"
They probably talked quite a lot about it (they were together almost a year with hardly any company and you need breaks between babymaking attemps)
And Lyanna probably knew, Aegon was dead for about a month before her dead i guess (ned went from kings landing to stormsend and back to the tower of joy, a raven will have come to the waiting kingsguard)
So she will have had time to think about that name
@@barteko.5218 We'd have to assume Robert's people sent out ravens to every significant house, particularly those fighting on the other side to let everyone know the war was over: Aerys, Rhaegar, and his children were dead. Given that Arthur Dayne was unaccounted for from their standpoint and he'd have seemed likely to stage some sort of counter attack, Starfall would have been included on that list. Someone could then have relayed the message from Starfall to ToJ.
The question is whether the raven and then whatever messenger went to ToJ would have taken less time than it took Ned to get there. This seems a likely scenario since the three Kingsguard were waiting outside for him.
On another topic related to Jon's birth. One thing I think is wrong about Robert's theory about the events is that Ned needed a wet nurse from Starfall. There almost certainly have been one already there along with the required midwife. Death in childbirth is commonplace, so they should have prepared for that possibility. Also, in the real world at least, European royalty didn't really nurse their own kids. Princes and Princesses were raised in their own castles by their own staff.
As always a pleasure to have your work .
Interested to hear you perspective on this. ty for the content. this should be fun!
His name is Anakin Skywalker and he's a person.
"what's your name?"
"Rhae. After "Rhaegar"
"Rhae what?"
"Rhae...Skywalker"
GREAT video, Robert!
i think based on D&D using GRRs blue print his name is probably Aegon. Rhaegar most likely believed he would be a girl and instructed lyanna to name him visenya. but with his and his children's death lyanna probably took it on herself to name him Aegon. people say she couldn't have known they were dead but I disagree the kingsgaurd knew rhaegar and his children were dead so seems likely lyanna did too.
I love your videos, Robert. Keep spinning gold 😊
I think it will be Aegon because if young griff does successfully take the iron throne in the books, he will be Aegon the 6th, which would therefore make Jon actually Aegon the 7th, and 7 is a sacred number in Westerosi culture which fits with the likely prospect of Jon being Azor Ahai.
I like Aemon, but im rooting for Jaehaerys. He was known as the conciliator, which fits well with Jon.
How would she have known baby Aegon was dead?
She wasnt alone in that tower and everybody heard that King's Landing was sacked. It wouldn't be hard to tell her these news.
@@Jelena1234fulbut how would the news get there? Someone in Kingslanding sent a raven to the tower of joy? Who? Also why tell a woman in labor such disturbing news? Rhaenrya miscarried when she found out Aegon was crowned king.
@@havok6280 my quess is that people who would bring supplies told them or yeah someone sent the raven. Rhaegar wouldn't leave her pregnant without a measter and tower of joy wasnt such a secert as someone told Ned where Lyanna was 🤷🏻♀️ Pregnant or not she deserved to know if the father of her child is dead same way she deserved to know that her brother was alright when the war ended. What do you think Jons real name is?
It was a whole month, do you think she didn't hear of Rhaegar's death either?
Thank you, Robert.
Hank Hill I reckon
He sells dragon glass, and dragon glass accessories.
Yeeup
@@mistermaestersirthomas9164 Mmm hmmm
Hank Snow, lol
@@holysecret2 Hank Sand? Tower of Joy’s in Dorne?
Aejon first of his name
I suppose it could be Aegon, but I never liked that, as someone born after the death of a sibling. If my parents gave me my dead sister's name, I would have really struggled with that personally. But, Aegon works with Jon as a knickname, we change pronunciations for nicknames all the time. Ed/Ned, Hank/Henry. It's possible she combined the names of Rhaegar and Aegon into Rhaegon. We see this happen with Dany's dragons, so it's not unheard of. If Jon ever becomes a dragonrider, perhaps he rides Rhaegal, the dragon with whom he shares a bond and a name, even if he ever only goes by Jon.
If Jon was given a name by Lyanna it won't have been Aegon BUT not because she didn't know that Rhaegar's son Aegon was dead. The reason is because there seems to be both a Targaryen and Westeros tradition of not naming children after their previously deceased older siblings, for example Jaehaerys I & Alysanne had five more sons after their first son Aegon died and they did not name any of them Aegon (though Vaegon is almost on the nose). If there is anything contradicting this let me know.
If Jon does have a Targaryen name then the obvious choices are in order. 1) Aemon: its pretty obvious that if Rhaegar assumed he would have have a daughter he would have told Lyanna it was going to be named Visenya but Lyanna would have pestered him for a name if it was a boy because its a 50-50 chance and Rhaegar would break down to suggestion Aemon after his great-great uncle who he was corresponding with about prophecy. 2) Jaehaerys: As Robert said in the video this is the name of Rhaegar's grandfather and could easily be translated in Jon by Ned. 3) Baelor: This is my "off the wall" guess as I would find it an interesting twist that Ned promised Lyanna he'd go to his grave without revealing Jon's true identity as Baelor son of Rhaegar and then dying at the foot of Baelor's statue.
I’m fine with Aemon or Aegon. I’m also interested in if he will go by his real name or stick with Jon snow, once he finds out his true parentage.
I believe he will keep the bastard name and use it as his “Armour” like Tyrion says. even though I would love to see him ride dragons and embrace his Valyrian heritage, i think he will still see Ned as his true father till the end. who really knows though I’m just another deprived asoiaf fan obsessing over questions we may never get an answer to.
I love these videos 😊
Expanding on this question, he turned down Stantis offer to be made Jon Stark lord of Winterfell and from Robbs will he can be made Jon Stark King of the north. And if he dose take at some latter point after Dance either offer, would take the name Stark or keep Snow? And adding the Targaryen to the mix would he do the same? I like to think that what ever future Jon has in the books that he never forgets the name Snow regardless of where he ends up.
Well, I for one think that Lyanna was held captive at the ToJ because what we know of Lyanna, she would have wanted to stop that War and she would have wanted to help. So I think when Rhaegar left her with his Kingsguard they were at odds and Lyanna decided to give her Child a Name from the North or at least North related. According to History, the Son of a Targaryen-Princess promised Cregan Stark that his first-born Daughter would once marry Cregan's first-born Son, the Name of that Prince was: Jacaerys Velaryon, the Son of Rhaenyra Targaryen and Laenor Velaryon. What if, Lyanna named Jon after a Targaryen Bastard?
Aegon also works in a stupid way in that one Aegon was called Egg and another Aegon was called Jon. EggJon. Aegon. It’s dumb but I like it
Sean, Jon, and Jack all the same name different cultures; in Westeros: Aegon in Valerian, Jaqen in Lorath
@@mistermaestersirthomas9164So Jon Snow is secretly Jaquen Hagar? 😮
(Sorry, forgot where the apostrophe went.)
Honestly I love this!!
@@thing_under_the_stairs they are brothers, specifically twins. With Aegon (Young Griff, their half brother) they make the “three headed dragon” named Aegon: Aegon, Aegon the Younger, and Aegon the Even Younger or Young Griff, Jaqen, and Jon Snow respectively.
Ned sent baby Jaqen to be hid in Lorath (like Jon Snow considered with Gilly’s baby swap) with (probably) Dustin. On the way there, where Ayra was later warned of pirates, Euron captured their ship probably killing Dustin. Euron sold his “dragon egg” aka baby Aegon Targaryen aka Jaqen to the Faceless “Men” as a slave. Like future Ayra was trained to kill but refused to give up his name, as will Ayra. He is now returning in disguise, like Theseus or Count of Monty Cristo, to get revenge; but couldn’t continue because Ned was too delirious to make any sense when Jaqen confronted him in the Cells, skin -changing from Robert to Petyr and then into bugs like Euron and Kindlyman does when they change faces.
@@mistermaestersirthomas9164I love this theory, and I'm just going to run with it from now on.
Twins at (maybe) 15 certainly would explain Lyanna's death better than the usual handwavey "women died in childbirth a lot back then" explanation. Not saying that childbirth wasn't a horrorshow that killed a lot of women, but wouldn't the crown prince have thought to have at least a couple of expert midwives on hand for his beloved wife/prophecy, especially with his knowledge of how dangerous childbirth in that world was? Twins would make things trickier though. Two of my best friends are twins, and they gave their (fully adult!) mother some medical trouble as recently as the 1970's. Yup, Jon and Jaquen are twins. And Jon will be thrilled to learn that there are so many stone cold assassins in his immediate family!
AeJon SnowGaryen
I didn't think Lyana knew about Rahgars' children dying so zi honestly thought shed call him Visaris. However, you made some compelling arguments for Agon.
I thought it would be Jaehaerys. I was trying to read her lips🤣But...nope. And totally forgot about Dany dream🙄 I need to re read that. How did Lyanna know little Aegon was dead? I do wonder how Robert would have reacted if Lyanna had lived. WE NEED TWOW. ASAP. PLEASE!! Thanks Robert. Ya know I'm your biggest fan🙋🏽♀️😁❄️ always fantastic.
@@ShadeoftheEvening maybe i misread your comment , when i first read it thought you said "i guess Lyanna knew Aegon was dead".
@@AlexBB77 no, you didn't misread. I changed it. I was trying to get across that it was "assumed". I just didn't get out what I was trying to say exactly how I meant to. Been a long day Alex😁✌️
@@ShadeoftheEvening no worries at all , thought i was going crazy there for a minute or horribly misread your comment. I've done my fair share of revisions myself on comments.
@@AlexBB77 thanks Alex. I do agree with you. I don't think she knew the children and Elia were dead. She'd probably heard about Rhaegar. Have a great one🐉🖤
Eddard. The Stark naming runs true. And it continues a cylical pattern. The story begins and ends with Eddard Stark.
I mean, irl kings can choose their regnal name on accession, so if Jon does win the throne I'd love if he took the name Eddard
In older Irish and Scottish family naming patterns, it’s quite common to have a child named after a deceased older sibling, that way the original honor of naming was kept now with the additional honor of the deceased sibling.
I see a lot of comments saying Lyanna wouldn’t have known about baby Aegon’s death in King’s Landing. But at the Tower of Joy when Ned says to the 3 Kingsguard “Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were,” Gerold responds, “Far away, or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.” Gerold and the other 2 Kingsguard don’t seem surprised that Aerys is dead and that another Kingsguard killed him. if they know about that they’d probably also know that Rhaegar’s wife and children are dead
I don’t think Jon’s real name is a Targaryen name - I think that’s a red herring. His is the song of ice and fire. It would make much more sense thematically for him to have a first name that pays homage to his Stark/ice roots, to further differentiate him from previous Targaryen kings.
I think Jon’s real name is Joramun (named by Lyanna cause Rhaegar was dead). Joramun was supposedly the first King beyond the Wall who united with Bran the Breaker to defeat Night’s King.
I suspect he was actually King Bran’s brother and therefore a Stark ancestor, with the two paralleling modern day Jon Snow and Bran the Broken. Idk how Lyanna would have known this, except if she was in with Rhaegar on researching Others lore and prophecy (plus having Old Nan stories to piece together).
But if so Jon would have a name that is both Stark and Targaryen, and as a bonus the contraction to Jon would make sense (which is where Ned got ‘Jon’ from).
His name is probably Aemon, given that there's a quote from Jon's POV that literally says "Nor was he Aemon Targaryen".
In Deep Geek his real name is Jon Stark. His Father Ned Stark married his Mother Ashara Dayne before the Heart Tree in the Wolf’s Den at White Harbor. This was after they made their journey together through The Vale, washed up on Sweetsister, and then got another boat to White Harbor. Ned travelled to Winterfell to call the Banners after the Wedding then had quite a bit of time in which he had to wait for all the Lords of the North in which he could spend time with his new Wife. Jon was conceived at the Wolf’s Den which was originally raised by a King in the North by the name of Jon Stark. He was also most likely born at the Wolf’s Den and not in Dorne because if you recall when Cat got to Winterfell with Robb after the Rebellion was over Jon was ALREADY THERE.
Jon has no Targaryen name because his only Targaryen relation is through his Mother Ashara Dayne, whose Cousin many times removed Dyanna Dayne was the Mother of King Aegon V which makes her the Ancestor of any current Targaryens that may exist, including Maester Aemon before his passing. Jon is Jon STARK…
I've been on the Aemon bandwagon this whole time but you do make a good argument for Aegon. I still want it to be Aemon though!
Could you make a video on the origin and power of Beorn in LOTR, please? Thank you!
You have no idea how much I needed this video from you
Remember the case of Aegon the Elder and Aegon the Younger. Rhaenyra aboslutely named her son Aegon to spite Alicent and so she took it. Imagine what the Martells would view this like: Lyanna Stark replaces Ellia as (future) queen consort, Ellia's son dies and Lyanna's son replaces him even taking his name. How is it not even worse than what Rhaenyra did? I'd seriously hate it if Jon's "real" name were Aegon.
Regarding Pip's comment when Sam and Jon meet - I always thought that he was not referring to Jon's birth mother, but the closest thing he had to a mother at Winterfell - Caitlin. And that name we shouldn't think of was... bastard. As if we weren't reminded by his name of snow, his wolf of snow, his bastard sword, etc.
People forget that GRRM was a consultant on the TV show. Yes some things were changed to work better in the show, Jon Snow’s name is a major element and it will not change in the books just like the ending will be essentially the same as the series.
Personally my favorite idea is that the child never had a name, so Ned named him Jon. Simple path to this outcome is that Rheagar didn’t even entertain the idea of having another son, so never gave a potential name for him. Lyanna goes along with this, never mentions a potential name for a son. Lyanna ends up dying due to childbirth before being able to name him. Nameless Jon is cared for and watched over until Ned arrives, at which point he names him Jon, after his second father. I also think it’s a great subversion.
Armand Tamzarian, but we aren't supposed to talk about that.
I like it. Catchy.
Honestly, Arya apparently being an echo of Lyanna, I'm having trouble believing that Lyanna was historically interested and versed enough to give him any other Targaryen name than Aegon.
Daemon would be awesome considering she was educated on Westerosi history or Daeron since Jon idolizes the Young Dragon....perhaps another bit of foreshadowing.
I think Rhaegar didn't have time to choose a name for him....
At the time of Rhaegar's death his children were still alive, Rhaenys and Aegon.... And he didn't know if a son or daughter would be born to him... He would probably have named the daughter Visenya (Aegon, Rhaenys, Visenya), but he wouldn't have named the other son Aegon again...
Two Aegons at the same time???... Perhaps he would have named him Jahaerys (the greatest of the Kings of the Targaryen family),
but he died at Trident and didn't have the opportunity to name him...
That's why I think he was named solely by Lyanna....And what name would Lyanna have chosen?
I think to honour the death of the one she loved most she would have given him a name: Rhaegar.
Another Aegon is too cliché and boring solution for me...
So: Rhaegar Targaryen.
I could see his real name being Brynden, after Bloodraven who corresponded with Rhagar. He might have told Leana about his uncle who was preparing for the Long night, and the name is similar to her lost brother.
I really hope if the book ever finishes will Jon Snow go toe to toe with the Night King as well as other things and not whatever the travesty Weis and Benioff did
Jon’s “mother” calls him bastard! It’s a throwaway line from Pip
Barry McCockiner
This just made me realize that the story starts with the death of Jon Arryn and is focusing on the raise of Jon Snow.
Ned worked so that Robert Baratheon was King and Robb Stark was Lord of Winterfell and both were killed by Lannister plots.
That leaves Bran and Brandon Stark and Rickon and Rickard Stark to get some parallels, I suppose. Robert's Rebellion partly started because Rickard and Brandon were killed by the Mad King. So, I do wonder if the idea is that the death of the eldest Starks started a war while the lives of the youngest Starks will end one.
All proceedes acording to his plan ... until he died 😂😂
I wonder if Robert can handle the Dune series. There is a lot of explanation to do in that.
Its foreshadowed with Egg too. Egg takes rhe first part of the name Aegon, Jon takes the second. They're not pronounced quite the same (Though George's pronunciations are always all over the place), but egg-jon is close.
I like the symmetry of a black dragon Fageon, Jon Aegon Snow and the third head being Danny
If it was just Lyana naming a son and Rhaegar hadn't chosen an alternative name for a boy believing the third child would be a daughter, there's a strong chance she would have chosen the name of her recently deceased father or brother. Her brother's name was Brandon, and there's always been that idea floating around that Bran Stark would end up on the throne. I kind of like the idea that it's a different Bran Stark (Jon) than one we might expect that ends up on the throne.
I think it's Aemon for a couple of reason's. First, I don't think that Lyanna knew that the first Aegon was dead. Second, I can see her having a conversation with Rhaegar asking what they should name the baby if it happens to be a boy. Although he would be convinced that it is a girl, he would humor her and discuss it. They would decide on Aemon, thinking it would be a good name for a son that would be "hand" to Aegon.
In Dany's vision at the house of the undying she told Jorah Mormont about the vision she had. " I saw my brother not viserys but Rhaegar standing over woman covered in blood with a babe at breast. He stated that he shall be called Aegon" She already knew that Rhaegar's first son had already died at King's Landing. Just prior to Ser Bariston Selmy comes up and kills the Mantacore. "The Warf in Qarth"
Daeron is also a good choice... and he's born in Dorne, which is important to both Daeron's before.
The name Jon could also be taken from a shortened version of the name Aegon. Just like the nickname Aemon gave to Egg (instead of Aeg), Ned could have derived the name Jon from the letters “gon”. The letter g can be pronounced as a j in some words. (Examples: gym and Germany)
Something I never see people talk about but Jon could technically also be a valyrian name. There's a Velaryon-Targaryen bastard called Jon Waters. J is a common start for Targaryen names and "on" is a common ending. Jon could be, for example, the least suspicious Targaryen name Ned could give him and hence the choice.
It's Dickon Manwoody.
I had one of those generate in my CK3 game recently.
@@aluminumsalmongames6277I saw Robert make one a member of his kingsguard
I'm pretty sure I'm not the first one to suggest this but you would be perfect to talk about the lore of Elden Ring. I would love to hear your theories about everything, moreso considering it is in part written by George RR Martin.
I think Jahaerys makes a lot of sense since that was Rhaegar’s grandfathers name. Daeron and Maekar make sense as well as relatively recent ancestors who were kings. Aemon would be my preferred choice just because it seems the most fitting for Jon
J-O-N and Ae-G-O-N also share a similar J/G-O-N syllable and many languages/dialects interchange J and G as sounds.
Aegon might be foreshadowed, but it would be the worst choice. Naming a child after a dead uncle, or grandfather, or hell even best friend is fine. But naming it after an elder sibling who had just been murdered days before is like saying 'meh he was replaceable. See look, I've already got another one'. Especially with the whole prince who was promised thing. It wouldn't be seen as honoring them, it would be seen as an insult by anyone who knew the dead brother.
My guess is that Rhaegar would have wanted him named Viserys ... and I also guess that Lyanna didn't want him in the first place (but that's a different topic, like you said). So in the end, his reall name is, indeed, Jon.
I agree with Robert's analysis.
babe wake up: in deep geek just dropped
Daeron the dragon knight ks mentioned by jon as beong someone he admired. I believe that is a good canidate.
Dearon the conqueror of Dorne.
Most of you do not understand Liana's sense of humor. She named the boy Poopy Butt.
I would like to think Raegar would have kept the motif of the Targaryen dragons have three heads. I would think he would have named Jon some type of variation of Vesenya?