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The Problem With Ubisoft's Balancing
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- čas přidán 25. 01. 2024
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The Problem With Ubisoft's Balancing
• The Problem With Ubiso...
My problem with their idea of balancing is instead of maintaining an operators playstyle identity, they'd rather heavy hand players to not play the game how they dont want you to and not give players any other choice
No fun allowed
It's arbitrary and whack. They look at the spreadsheet, see Ash and Iana are literally off the charts and decide the gun is the issue without looking at the fact that they're the attackers that are constantly played. Maybe Iana is up there because infinite drones and info? Maybe Ash is up there because she can blow up things at a distance with the noob tube and is fast? Nah, ignore that data of who they literally are and the people who play them. It's silly!
@@kirbyis4everBoth are fast and also relatively silent whilst moving.
@@flowgangsemaudamartoz7062 Ash I can agree with being fast. Iana is a two speed and can eat an extra bullet ((maybe)) without being as loud as a 3 armor. Her fundamental reason to exist though is to get Intel with her drones and kill people - everyone can sneak by alt-walking.
@@kirbyis4everThis and also because Ash and Iana are lowkey the og waifus in the game. They are fan favourites, ofc their pick rate is gonna be high. What is Ubisoft gonna do next? Nerf Iana's butt???
nokk: has the 5th worst win delta
ubisoft: lets remove half her kit
Devs:"BuT hEr MeChAnIc Is FrUsTrAtInG!!!!!"
Caveira:😐😐😐😐😐
Nokk is poop
Gets a kill with the SMG 11: :"Nice I actually got that"
Gets killed by the SMG 11 "Nice they actually got that"
Ubisoft,: "NO ONE SHOULD BE GETTING KILLS"
smg11 finally feels like a viable option as a secondary for me as a bad player, and now its going to be so much harder to use
@@gabedellaira6924I’ve been using it and it still feels the exact same lol. 1 bullet is nothing with a fire rate that fast
@@gabedellaira6924much harder????? Really? Its one bullet lol on 3 speeds
Ubisoft when they see cheaters: 😴
Ubi when they see G36C fraggers: 👁️👄👁️
Factss
This is unironically true because to them, cheaters are a part of gaming that "they just can't do anything about" and people have to deal with. But when they see people who put in time and effort to be good at something, their weak liberal Canadian brain spites them instantaneously and, out of hate, they want to make it harder for them to do that in a snide "yeah let's see you do that now" attitude because, they're just fucking losers.
In a game where defense is naturally favored I've been wondering why they keep adding to defense and taking from attack. Defense keeps getting crazy new gadgets and ops to toy with while Attack gets some niche situational ops and having frags be reworked (nerfed), while defenders have been able to C4 1-shot us just as easily thru floors as nades have (and get to keep doing it)
im glad you brought it up C4 is just as bad if not worse than pre nerf frag grenades
Because people (including ubi) think tdm meta gets fixed by buffing defenders. No. Defenders being op is literally why it exists, when you're at a disadvantage this massive the only way to gain advantage is rushing kills like an idiot.
I think Ubis counter argument here would be that c4 is designed to work through and stick to floors, plus they are slower to throw, make noise etc.
I do agree, especially with all the intel defense gets c4 is crazy strong
Tbh Id rather they nerf C4 and make it as much damage as an impact. It’s make it me more of a trap item to catch people off guard or make bigger holes than impacts
sorry for the long rent
ubi really can't look up from their data sheets. just look up! the r4c is a good gun (i miss the acog on that/but we don't need that much zoom on that gun) a 1.5 would be good
any way the r4c and arx 200 are good guns and the g36 is meh in my opinion i would not bring a gun only for the 1.5 .
ubi doesen't see behind the data that they are collecting, these weapons have high kill ratios yes because they are on fragger operators.
ash uses one of her breach launcers in 20s the round and myabe get a kill while clearing rooms thats her job also like iana and to use her other gadget to destroy utility.
important operators will not roam clear like ace or thatcher. if ash would get the ak12 then that gun would have high kill ratio
when the company doesn't even know how their game work anymore
every patch we stray future from god and balance! defenders get all OP deployable gadgets with noooo counter while attackers get a discounted bee keeper from amazon.
almos all attacker gadgets need the operator to stay alive while most defenders can just use their gadgets in the prep phase whit out fear tubaro is one exeption of that but, he is very safe behind that froozen wall + with no real counter untill now. this is just crazy how ubi even let operators anounced like this. solis kills all information in the prep phase bro what all atackers got is to droon for 30 sec and you een kill that option ? nah
at this point attackers should be able to choose a room on the map to make it clear or detect any operator in it for the first 1 minute of the round so they can have a good way to entry not like a swat team can't clear and scan a room without any body on site with this option i would say the first 1 minute of the game is balanced but defenders till just need to hold pixel angles
ubisoft clearly have a favorite and they are not silent about it
defenders get 99%banned fanrir, solis, tubaro, azami
attackers get "better" twitch (slow+no chance to actually hack aggaints good defender team 'is it better?') beekeper better sladge with r4c 1 speed
also whats up with the speed changes sence when did ela get thiccer? is she now thiccc? or thicccc?
and zofia 1 speed really? compared to the 1 speed full armor rook and dock she is half the size and there is also gridlock.
My problem with the stat and spread sheet balancing is how they decide to buff/nerf.
At the beginning of the video you brought up how Zero had one of the best guns in the game. He has a bottom win rate and more than once he’s had the WORST win rate. It’s not one of those things where his gun is marginally better, his gun w/ extended barrel blows every gun in siege out of the water. Yet he’s been bottom of the barrel for a year.
It's almost like the guns are not what makes the game tick.
@@GGE I’m aware. And I know Zeros case is more nuanced than I made it. It gets down to 3 things for him.
1.) his gadget is very loud
2.) his gadget is very buggy
3.) droning is inherently better than a zero cam
I’m just saying that in the last year and a half, we have only gotten one change for this operator that’s been meaningful for his viability. It leaves me to wonder if they aren’t doing anything because his gun is so strong
I think there's so much more than win rate and pick rate that has to be considered. Maybe zero could use a buff, but honestly I think he's already a super strong op in the right hands. The thing with high pick rate is that it's usually for ops that are super easy to play, zero has too many things going on with his gadget to be picked that much. With win rate, we have to consider how frost went from multiple seasons near the bottom to near the top and then receiving a huge nerf. So much is just changing meta and player knowledge, lots of ops have potential that just doesn't get utilized often.
Ubisoft balances R6 Siege like that one time Mao Zedong ordered people to kill Sparrow's on sight because they were eating grains, while not realizing said Sparrows were also keeping the local Locusts in check, so when the Sparrows were effectively exterminated, their rice fields got destroyed by the locusts and caused the greatest mass starvation recorded in history, and just like Mao Zedong, Ubisoft refuses to listen to complaints and just says "You're wrong, I'm the Emperor so I *know* what I'm doing*". I genuinely have no idea how people put up with this game's depressing balancing anymore to be perfectly honest
so when are we getting a post-rock album about Ubisoft's Balancing? (You are 100% right, but I just wanted to make a reference to an amazing album: "Every Red Heart Shines Toward the Red Sun")
But to get serious, I think this + someone elses comment about making the "Easy" changes instead of actually engaging with the matter sums it up perfectly
I need a Gregor Timeline of Ubisoft causing him to lose his mind.
The only true destiny you will ever meet for having the hubris of believing in Ubisoft.
@@jacopobonetalli8396People keep giving them money despite their bull crap. They won't listen, since they don't have to.
As much as I dislike Overwatch, a big part of their balancing is based on player frustration. They cite complaints and criticisms they received in their feedback/explanation for nerfs and buffs. Ubisoft does everything based off of win delta statistics. Numbers can’t paint the whole picture of a game. There has to be some operators that people just naturally gravitate towards and punishing players for picking Ops that are good is just going to drive people away.
They nerfed the R4-C and ARX-200 so that people would pick the G36. Now they nerf the G36. So both Ash and Iana now have overall worse weapons than they did beforehand.
Yeah, but Overwatch goes too much into that at times. Rn 1 tank is dominating the Meta. They nerfed him which is good, but then they also giga buffed one of his counters. Now that counter is going to be the new Meta and everyone hates playing her.
I definitely would not hold up the OW2 balance philosophy as an example of what devs should be doing
That's interesting, I would think if Overwatch was balanced around player frustration then they wouldn't have based their entire game off of stun and negation mechanics.
They literally nerf who ever gets picked more.
@everynone1849 I agree. Overwatch balancing is not good
I mean their reasoning for nerfing frost into the ground was "yeah we don't believe the game should be played like that, even tho our community is asking for reverting the change, we won't"
No the frost rework was fine. Only the bad/below average players cried. Ubi had a very valid point: you should never be stuck in a position where you can do nothing. Because if you vault in and get swung and kill the guy you’re still fucked cause haha you stepped in a frost mat shitter! That’s a dumb situation imo. At least it much more fair now since if I win the very unexpected gunfight I can pick myself out of said frost mat.
@@thethumblessn00b19 only bad/below average players think Frost was a problem
@@ZHibikii’ll take any advantage i can get as a attacker man
@@ZHibikiFrost was just more frustrating before. If you play it correctly, you will stay have 90% of the impact she had before. Her fundamentally strong side has not changed at all.
@@ZHibiki she wasn’t a problem by herself exactly more so the situations she was able to put you literally left you fucking helpless even if you somehow won a 2 v 1 swing you’d still die to the frost mat. Which is bullshit, you won the 2 v 1 why are you dead? The silver: “hEr DeR dEr YoU sHoUlD’vE jUsT lOoKeD dOwN bRo” that’s a fucking L thought process and you should’ve read my post twice obviously because you failed to comprehend my well illustrated point: she wasn’t a problem, she CAUSED unfair/dumb situations. Because now you can’t just ignore the poor bastard in the frost mat (which is a valid change, if I can walk through a kapkan trap which literally shreds all tissue including muscles and tendons/ligaments and still sprint at full speed I fail to see how a snapped bone or 2 isn’t just as bad just some reference for the “realism level” in siege)
This is the same exact reason why Jager’s pick rate has gone down. It’s not because his gadget is any less useful- it’s because his gun is not fun to use. Same here. I used the G36-C on Ash last night and have concluded that if I’m gonna have to run the holo to make it feel palatable, I may as well run the R4C.
I feel like whenever I play Jager, its like im doing a chore that no one else wants to do. His gadget can slow down or stop an attack play completely, but he is not fun to play due to how bad his gun is
wamaii is also just better.. 1.5, prox minds, and more flexible gadget
Then next they'll nerf the R4C because nobody is using the G36C the nerfing is like a snake eating itself
@@DogWick lol until eventually they have no guns and they just act as meat shields
Yeah Jagers gun for me is either hit or miss I get games where it feels great and others I might as well uninstall
You know who remembers when Ubisoft didn't make baffling balance changes, and when they buffed underpowered ops to compete with stronger ones? Pepperidge farms remembers.
Literally a few seasons back they started doing it again, until the recent few seasons like what the fuck man i thought they got their shit together
They had a decent streak for a whìle but since the Fenrir mid season patch it's been shit again
they would rather nerf every opp to the ground instead of buffing the bad/unpopular ones, because of this poor balancing every gadget feels useless or not impactful which makes the boring af
Siege hasn’t been good since Operation Health
@@uncannyvalley3190 based take. You dropped this, 👑.
“Well ash and iana were picked to much”
Literally ubi balancing motivation
The weird thing is I don't think this is going to change Ash's pick rate much. In my opinion, she is the only attacker who has everything you need to deal with the defense you encounter through a round.
1. Gun with high fire rate and low recoil, to win against Roni but still be able to counter spawnpeeks
2. 3 speed, to reposition if facing overwhelming utility and also not get punished off sound
3. Ranged bulletproof utility clear (shields/Maestro) and soft destruction (make rotates or clear headholes)
4. Flashes to burn utility or engage defenders in bunkered positions
I feel like if I'm not playing Ash there are certain things that will just force me to a standstill in an attacking round, and of course every second that passes means the defense's odds of winning get higher.
A big issue too is the fact that they always nerf nerf nerf which inherently is boring rather than buffing alternatives. Why not give thermite a small buff?
therm is fine. they wont waste time giving a microbuff to a perfectly healthy op when there are other ops and mechanics in the game causing frustration.
@@drjamaymay405black beard has been bottom tier for YEARS and they know it, yet to buy they refuse to rework him and yet they always do tiny things we hate
@@smokeyjoseph1790 Imo BB shouldn't be slower with the shield on his gun because logically speaking he already HAS the fucking shield on him, right? I can completely understand the recoil reason, but if it's so heavy you're basically walking wouldn't it give you a lot less recoil as you essentially have a counter-weight?
The way his shield is treated is illogical.
@@KraNisOG fact the shield literally makes him a four speed, what's crazy is even if you made him 3 speed and made his recoil nothing he'd still be bad cuz he basically has not utility
How does Ubi not understand that the reason people play Ash and Iana so much is their gadgets promote relatively little tactical play with good tools for simple gunfighting? Not the guns. How about they change their game so in this massive sandbox for tactical gameplay people cant just get away with running in? Or maybe incentivise tactical play by not stacking absolutely overpowered defenders that leads to attackers trusting the 50/50 gunfight more than a strategy?
My solution would be make sprinting and crouch walking super loud and make recoil increase if you are moving + shooting. It's the only way to nerf the annoying Ash play style in my opinion.
People don't play Ash because she is the strongest operator. People play her because she is the strongest operator that doesn't require any mental effort. Everything that makes her good is a passive trait and you don't need to think too much to be effective. To move people away from Ash, you need to make her gadget more cerebral or nerf her passive traits (fast + quiet).
we are seeing Gregors slow descent into madness
I think anyone making r6 content for this long is off the deep end…
Personally, I think gun nerfs and tweaks in a 9-year-old game are insane. these patches should be a lot more substantial and based on the meta not the pure statistics. if it was about recoil and damage points this game would be a looter shooter, not a "tactical" shooter. the players' mechanical skill and gadget strategy are way more important.
Almost as if the devs didn't understand jackshit about their own fucking game.
I played the game when it launched, when ash/thermite and jäger were the strongest operators in the game by far. Having a fragging op has always been a fundamental part of every attacking and defensive strategy, operators have their roles and Ash is designed to get picks, having a player who is good at playing these operators is just as important as having players with good coordination who can execute a breach/plant or castle defence strat etc. obviously these players have higher k/d ratios, that’s their job. The nerf is so pointless.
Good point. Stats show this as well. If you have an Ash and Iana player who can play them on any site because they’re a versatile operator who can frag well. Whereas if I’m playing support one round I might be thermite, the next hibana, the next Montagne. Support players have to vary between a lot, whereas frag players don’t.
@@L4ck0Ski11 I hadn’t thought of that but you’re right. Just a very black & white approach to balancing in the game atm rather than delving deeper into issues.
OG Jäger 😢
I used to play League Of Legends. I enjoyed playing low play rate characters because many people did not understand how to play against them. Like old Galio, Arulien Sol, etc. every single one of my main characters who had the lowest pick rates in the game were all re-worked, altered, or nerfed to the point of being gutted because, despite the low pick rates, the win rates were too high apparently. I quit playing the game because I was punished for putting hundreds of hours into unpopular characters and getting good with them. You are 100% right.
Dude, what they did with aurelion sol is fuckin disgusting. Absilutely butchered such a unique character and turned him into a generic minion farming, press one button champion.
im so happy for you getting away from league that game is one of the top 3 most brainrot inducing games and will ruin your life
@@Venkullix -siege player
they’ve added A tier minimum defenders for about 4 straight years😂the last S tier attacker was Ace which was a minute ago
Kinda whack isn't it? Attacking is hell when you're blind by Fenrir, Azami changed up the site with her pancakes and Solis killed your drones so you don't know where people are.
@@kirbyis4ever exactly, fenrir should’ve been re worked a long time ago, the guy can blind u, knows exactly where u are at when u hit it, he can make rotates and he can frag since he has an MP7 which is one of the best defender guns, he’s the most busted to me right now and solid is right there, i think azami is the weakest of the 4 which says a lot😂the next attacker has to be on their level, it’s actually crazy they have made 0 changes to fenrir
They pushed the current meta to be run-and-gun then think it's a problem when people use run-and-gun operators
Not to mention the reason Finka, Zofia, and Tachanka have high win/loss ratios is because of cheaters, and that’s also why Clash is as low as she is on PC. But they don’t mention that. Doesn’t fit the narrative
couldn't make this shit up lmao
I'm out of the loop: what is it about Finka, Zofia, and Tachanka that is relevant for cheaters? If someone is going to spinbot, why does the operator matter?
@@WayoftheFerret finka can revive if someone tries to teamkill you but only manages to injure you. Tachanka is just funny so they use him.
@@WayoftheFerretGuns with lots of ammo so they're not caught off guard reloading and the gadgets can make up for extra shortcomings. If you get hurt you can get up as Finka if you're a closet cheater or have 150 bullets as Zofia (That's 5 mags in one compared to anyone else!!)
@@WayoftheFerretthey all got hard hitting high mag size lmgs, so when you're walling/aimbotting you don't even have to reload once during the whole round
It's becoming impossible for players to maintain knowledge of the secondary gadgets that operators have, since they change them so frequently. I've been playing since year one, I can't keep track of the pointless changes.
I was hoping you'd talk more about shields, but I saw your thoughts on the bird app.
I feel like ubisoft has this cycle where something is overpicked, say... idk, jager. And it's really because of a fundametal issue with the game, utility meta in that age. It's a complex issue that has to be attacked from many angles.
Instead, lets nerf the speed, gun, optics, gun, gadget, gun over and over. Until we finally, oher the course of 1.5 years, fix the base issue. But we are never going to undo those nerfs. Oh no. Jager being one of the few defenders with an AR a few years back used to mean something.
Devs understand the problems of the game (1000000% impossible challenge)
it not even balancing anymore, they are straight ruining the game, yall should be online dogging on siege. speak with ur money
So to recap Siege real quick. a lot of people are still unhappy with Ranked 2.0, the defender meta is so strong it's hugely effecting the state of the game, cheaters are also more prevalent than they have ever been on pc AND console, and to remedy the situation they nerf 3 guns no one had a problem with and ace another attacker. Ubisoft has to stop looking at statistics and look to the millions of people that love and play the game, do community polls or literally anything to bridge this lack of communication.
I honestly think they're waiting until after SI to do the hard hitting nerfs
Or they could do it a week before, screwing over some players and teams. They’re released big patches before tournaments before
@@L4ck0Ski11 Which were always stupid business decisions because their money maker SI players were seething each time
@@n0mad385 yep, they’ve screwed over everyone a bit recently
I have had this discussion with multiple of my friends already that R6 doesn’t need nerfs. R6 needs more versatility pressed onto its characters in terms of how they can be used in certain situations, especially being better or worse than other characters of a similar play style to their counterparts. For example, I believe Ubisoft needs to start by giving every single operator a 3rd secondary gadget option that will aid [insert operator]’s play style the most.
Impact EMPs for IQ please
Ubisoft sees a weapon meta form, which forms in every other multiplayer fps, and says "i need to put a stop to this"
I'm convinced ubisoft misread the pickrate axis as win rate
The one hill i'll die on is the frag grenade rework i've not got a single kill since the change, floor nade kills are a cool 300 IQ strat i dont the the devs even thought about when making the game. That being said i don't know how people can be okay with C4 floor kills but think doing the same with nades is somehow explioting a bug when players have been doing it for years, but i would have been ok with damage reduction for nading below (from 100hp to 60hp for example) if it meant keeping nade cooking because its frustrating droning an enemy and throwing a perfect nade only for them to run away i hate it and thats a hill i'll die on.
c4 sticky, nade bouncy.
I feel like Ubisoft just doesn’t listen, they keep taking 1 great step up and 82 steps back. It really sucks how they are treating this game.
Community: buff everyone to match up with others, we really need a Tachanka and Blackbeard fix
Ubisoft: remove cooking nades give those to Blackbeard then nerf the actual good and well balanced operators. Because we don’t want the game to be played the way everyone likes it to be played.
Hibanas gun is so good if it had 30 bullets people would complain about people picking her for her gun
My problem is they let cheaters run the game and nerf our chances of stopping them lol
Cheaters blatantly ruining a game: 😊😊😊😊😊😊
People play Ash and Iana: 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
Could it also be that the G36 gets more kills because EVERYONE TAKES IANA AND ASH?!
Ubisoft just keeps fumbling their own balls into the fire.
Their balancing is comical at best.
Next balance tuberoo gwts unlimited freeze bombs, solis destroys all drones by lookimg at them, but to keep things balanced attackers get only pistols with no ammo and a foam sword for melee
genuinely no words for ubisoft's dev's
Pickrate doesn't = strenght/power
not the worst change ever I'm not mad just dissapointed of the balance team
Before this season I've never thought about one big point people have been bringing up and that's that we get to many "easy" changes.
Or that they like to just nerf whichever operator is making trouble.
For someone like Tubarao who interacts with so many operators that makes sense and it was an obvious change the game needed, but for example to just give Thorn a 1.5x is not a good change, make her traps deploy faster, increase the range whatever, there are so many factors to play with. I hate sounding like a broken record because I always bring up the Thorn "buff", but it's true you can't be a dev commenting "oh she's not as good a trap operator" and then give her a scope making her more into a fragging operator with a shield that happens to have traps.
So often I feel like it might be possible to buff counter play instead of nerfing operators or gadgets to the point where they feel like only a shadow of their former self.
I feel as I watch more and more Gregor, the more I fee llike he's becoming "the grumpy" gaming experience.
ion blame him if be fed up too
Can you be mad? The company that makes the game he's big for is screwing the game so hard people don't want to play it anymore. When this game is doing bad, he does bad too. Makes sense if he's grumpy.
That's what has drawn me to him tbh. Most other Siege CZcamsrs I've watched over the years just smile and wave and act like everything is great, because "obviously we all love Siege so why wouldn't it be great?", while Gregor is voicing the frustrations I've had for years that eventually drove me to quit playing. He's saying the quiet part out loud.
@@WayoftheFerret I really don't feel thats the case. Varsity Gaming, Macie Jay, and Gregor, even Bikini Bhodi have all leveled a large amount of grievances against the game. It's all justified, but still crazy.
@@storebrandpeas5413 he is just wining at this point, there is no constructive criticism
We should all start picking an op that nobody plays to inflate the pick rate and then see if they nerf them
I've said this before, I got downvoted to hell on reddit for this- Enjoy Siege content creators making content about other games as well. This will impact Ubi more than telling people to stop playing siege. Let people play siege as much as they want, I don' t want their fun to subside.
R6 has been already bleeding players and looks like it will continue to do so and die a slow death.
Once content creators are free to make other content, Ubi will panic and start making real positive changes to the game as the attention of players will not only go to other games but also play other games.
The unfortunate reality of the CZcams algorithm is that once you get a set "audience capture," making content for a game outside of that audience capture is effectively impossible. You basically gotta start over which is not impossible, but it's understandable why a few of my colleagues in the CCing scene have finally had enough and either decided to go back into the workforce or do something else.
And post update, at least on console, you still see an Ash/Iana on every attack. Good job Ubi
it's just a slight recoil nerf, if you have decent gun skills it won't do much.
@drjamaymay405 I mean, there are better 1 speed ops anyway, even before the nerfs. Zero is a machine!
To be completely fair, Finka and Zofia have higher win deltas because cheaters are using them for their LMG’s, not because they’re so good
Every miss step by ubi highlighting a scary truth:
Console is propping up this game right now (it has its big problems but it pales in comparison to what’s happening on pc right now
The clock is ticking. It’s been confirmed valorant has started play testing a console version. I think it is probably out before the end of year. If they game is even remotely enjoyable I think it takes a very large scale amount players left on siege for green pastures. Just a thought
I miss Rogue-9 doing these kinda videos. You and him would be great for the stats of guns and how needs either shift the balance or break the game…or make the player base mad
He quit because Ubi makes changes to recoil for everything every season. No consistency, so what's the point? Waste of time analyzing something that's gunna get nerfed anyway.
@@Nick_Lima954 yeah I remember him posting a video talking abt his frustration w the recoil changes in…the operation of I believe Ace/Kali? But he also had all that drama but w Ubi and another YTer (I believe it was Get_Flanked) . And I I decided to side w the people brining in views, and not someone analyzing the overall balance of the game. Which sucks bc rogue was a great analyst/stats guy for someone into guns and shooters 😅
Ubisoft : we are going to buff some of these guns to make some of these underpicked operator have more appearance
*spreadsheet not balance for 5 seconds*
Ubisoft: actually you know what screw that
the issue in their balancing is they acknowledge the issue but then never address the issue for whatever lazy nerf they give the operator and call it a day
Fun fact, spreadsheet balance is fucking with league of legends for a while
the intro had me thinking my internet was acting up
9:23 that is me. i do not speak, nor play this game anymore. i watch these vids cuz i love these vids. i dont play rainbow cuz i dont really fw modern rainbow. i see this change, think to myself "thats stupid", and then i move on
Ubisoft trying to fix a single tging is like talking to a wall
I don’t think any balance changes at all should be made based off pickrate, especially in this case where the win rate is LITERALLY 0%
The stare at the beginning sums up how most of us feel about the current state of this game..😄
I understand the desire for competitive fairness and all that. But the game is not fun, you shouldn't balance the game to be good, but you should never balance the fun out of the game. Like you said, this is spreadsheet balancing at its worst. Its like they never take into account how any of these changes actually feel, they just see a statistic go out of line then make changes.
Ubi has been doing this for years now. Their method of balancing is why I quit the game, and it extends beyond weapon balance. Weapons, gadgets, ops, and even movement mechanics get nerfed because ubi sees too many people enjoying them. That's why movement was nerfed, that's why we've seen gunner op whack a mole, that's why we've seen so many people lose frags. Siege will continue to spiral downward until ubi realizes that usage rate does not equal gameplay strength.
Nah Kapkan getting Bulletproof Camera is a BUFF
Yea i can see some funny kills coming from that lol
he didnt have to lose the impacts over it tho. Def huts his roaming ability should you play that way and need to make a quick exit for yourself. me personally, imma run the c4 99% of the time, but was nice to have the option.
Man, I really liked kapkans impacts though.
why does the balancing team hate the playerbase
They're literally just ruining everything and then ruining the next thing people go to. It's sad seeing Ubi ruining the game like this. This game is really heading towards the point of needing another Operation Health, and idk if this game can survive another Operation Health. I also super disagree with their method for balancing, they should listen to the community more.
siege needs to balance attacking on an operator basis given the defender sided meta we're in currently in. why can't ubi give operators more utility instead of taking gun to balancing(sometimes gun balancing is warranted) at this point ubi is so out of touch with their community its wild to think that the character we though ubi wanted players to pick is now somehow not balanced? i dont get it
While I agree that siege shouldn't be balanced by only looking at numbers, looking at statistics is an important part in balancing. But then I don't get why a high pick rate combined with an average win delta deserves a nerf. High pick rate and average win delta just means the operator is popular, not that it is overpowered. Balancing at such a point in my opinion means trying to balance the fun playing the operator in addition to balancing the effectiveness.
As a side note: Giving "lowest time to kill" as an argument to nerf is just insane as there will always be a weapon with the lowest time to kill. Especially in a game with oneshot-headshot. It also seems like they did not consider that killing someone requires hitting them, which can be hard with the SMG-11.
I really don't think they understand what's going on in their game anymore. Like c'mon, you got your desired outcome with Ash, she is notoriously known as the "fragging" operator. Her gadget has always been perfect for the type of playstyle she is often used in. Nerfing the R4-C was the entire premise behind making the G36C be used more often by players. There are will always be a lot of Ash mains out there. There is a bigger problem in siege than the developers think there is, always has been like this. There are plenty of other operators that could use a significant buff instead of nerfing the top picks. They need to give players a reason to use the lesser picked ops. Giving an operator a different gadget should not be constituted as a buff.
I stopped playing some time a year ago and yeah, wasn't a conscious thing I just started looking at other stuff and haven't come back. There's so much that just makes it such a miserable experience. Balancing is something they can directly control but the amount of cheaters has just completely turned me off it.
Ubisoft is balancing guns mostly at this point as we are approaching end of life for R6S and there is not a lot of funding/interest left in making huge reworks to blackbeard, cav, IQ, etc. In Ubi's words: "No money, no major balancing or updates. Lot of money, major balances and updates."
9:15 thats me, i completly stopped playing siege for one or two seasons now, quitted constantly playing way longer, i only watch your videos cause i like your videos
"we saw that previous balance changes nerfing something did its job so now we're going to continue nerfing things"
So in short, Ubisoft should just leave the game exactly the same for seasons on end. Whatever the devs do will be looked at with negativity (buff or nerf).
Why on earth do operators like Blitz and Monty have a pistol as their main weapon without a sight, while operators like Ela get a sight on their secondary pistol?!
What Ubi is doing with Siege is crazy to me, as a casual player all the recoil changes make the game just plain unfun to me.
I haven't played the game in a while but I've been saying this for years. The balancing around pick rate particularly is ridiculous. High pick/low win delta operators are those that people pick because they're fun and simple, not because they're too powerful. Nerfing their strength misses the entire point about why they are picked, and ultimately makes the game less fun and engaging for most players. You end up with a game that is optimally balanced for competitive play, but unenjoyable for most other levels of play.
Also love how this continues the cycle of Ubisoft nerfing something everyone saying "oh as a consequence this OP's/weapon's pickrate will skyrocket watch them nerf it next" and they literally do this still even after years. Like so many OPs are so mediocre and simply not fun to play take Jäger, Twitch, Zofia or Melusi for example
mav loosing nades made me drop to my knees an curse ubisoft with the weight of a million hard support ques souls.
I've been tired of the way ubi handles nurse and buffs in rainbow for years now. If an operator is too good the solution is always add more recoil or lower the bullet damage or lower the magazine size. And now you have operators who you never touch because you can't trust getting into a gunfight with something like twitch's f2. And yeah, I'm sure someone in the comments will just say "lol get good" but realistically I think slowly making a gun less and less usable is not the way to approach nurse and buffs. It's just as dumb as when they would just give and take fragrenades from ops.
Also, it seems that the people responsible for buffing and nerfing ops and guns do not use any stats to make their decisions. Ubisoft has a few people watching R6 content creators on CZcams and making notes about which guns and loadouts they're heavily using, then nerfing them knowing that many people will follow along and use the same meta.
Removing maps from quick matches is another horrible decision
I've honestly been finding that "Siege Beauty" in The Finals by playing support and map control loadouts. I was excited to see your vid on the other channel
Hey everybody, today ill tell you a tale of Ubisoft balancing, but not about Rainbow Six, about For Honor.
Now ''who gives a fuck about For Honor'' you might be thinking, and yeah ig youre right, but this example is just too good to not explain it here.
So in Forhonor theres a character named Shugoki, hes a tanky boy with lots of hyperarmor, and he has an atack called ''demons embrace'', it roughly does the damage of a heavy atack, but it costs more stamina and is pretty slow, to add to that it has the slowest recovery of any move in the game, 2 seconds, in a fighting game were half a second is the norm.
To add insult to injury its the only atack in the game with hyperarmor in its recovery, what this means is that you could get hit multiple times if you missed that atack, while in the case of any other atack in the game, a single hit would cancel the recovery and let you block atacks agin. This, combined with the fact that shugoki just sucked for a long period of time, meant that Shugo players were the kind that like a challenge, and that dedicate alot of effort to getting good at an objectively subpar character.
So in short, smart players, what does that mean? That demons embrace was relegated to very specific cases, for example when you push an enemy into a wall the atack is confirmed, just like any other heavy atack, that means players tended to only use it in the rare ocasion it was confirmed, or extremely rarely in normal combat to throw off their oponent.
But what does that look like on a spreadsheet? the atack had an 80% hit rate, the highest in the game. So ofcourse, it got nerfed.
Now if youve been paying atention youll have realised that the only reason its hitrate was so high is because the atack was just bad, too risky to use in normal combat, like a worse version of a heavy atack that any character has, yet because of being worse, players were forced to play it more safely, giving it a higher hit rate, making it the obvious target for the interns at Ubi for a big nerf. They made it so the atack gave stamina back to the enemy, reduced its damage by about half, and augmented the stamina cost to use it.
R6 balancing is a little wierd at times, but im so thankfull that its never as bad as ForHonor, giving a gun 2 less damage is dumb but at the end of the day does nothing, be thankfull that your characters arent straight up getting gutted with every nerf. God ubi is so fucking good at coming up with game ideas and then slowly killing them for the dumbest reasons.
Skizo post over, i needed to get this shit off my chest lol
I havent played siege for more than a year now, but i swear to good everytime you upload a video like this i have flashbacks of the many nerfs they made in the past and i also get rilled up about how tone deaf ubisoft is in general
Siege balancing baffles me as someone who plays support/anti gadget on attack and traps on defense. Why make or introduce ops that completely negate the original ops purpose. The thatcher nerf still makes no sense in my mind. They threw his use out the window by handing out emp to so many ops. Thatcher gets banned plenty, but he doesn't destroy the defenders electrical gadget anymore. What use does he have now? None at all. Kapkan, I view as usless now. I enjoy the play style, but he gets banned, so much what is the purpose. With the bans and nerfs to him, he is now in limbo. Lesion can not kill ops unless they are really low on health. Thorn and kapkan are the only trap ops that can consistently kill. With good placement and time spent with ops. TLDR quit nerfing ops by negating their whole ability or giving their purpose to a bunch of other operators.
ubisoft is/has been slowly throwing their game down the toilet since year 4. implementing small frustrating patches or reworks incrementaly over time. It's the main reason that I left the game for a couple years as it just wasn't the same fun tac shooter that I bought the game for. Not only that but the way that they ONLY use the spreadsheets (which can often be very misleading) as a way to balance the game shows how big of a disconnect they truly have with their audience. If they continue to go down this path nobody will be around for their 100 operator goal. They constantly lower the bar that they set for themselves to achieve and still manage to limbo dance underneath it.
I remember when Ubisoft announced that they’re planning to add more risks on operators that players were using for the wrong reasons.
I think that they should try to rework the armor and speed system, something like what they did on “Rainbow Six Extraction” but different. If too many players are already best at using certain weapons with certain operators then this is going to be a hot take but I think Ubisoft should increase their movement speed but lower their health to 90. That way Ubisoft wouldn’t have to keep nerfing guns which hurts operators who shares them.
These tweaks and nerfs also don’t hurt PC cheaters or XIM/StrikePack users on console. They are still gonna body everyone on a regular basis even if Iana and Ash’s gun got extra recoil.
R6 is not fun anymore. Every time the power level gets even lower. I remember guns doing 40 damage as a baseline. Now, every time things get nerfed. Nades? Nerfed. Scopes? Nerfed. Gun damage? Nerf. Everything gets nerfed. The worst thing is nerfs by proxy, like Grim getting nerfed because he shares the same gun as IQ. WELL NERF IQ IN ANOTHER WAY THEN! This whole thing with Ubisoft is driving me mad. I can't wait for legacy to return again. I'll never leave that playlist once it returns.
Ubisoft, how about we play it like this: No more nerfing good operators, buff every bad operators.
Everyone is bad doesn't make the entire game balanced.
Stop removing fun.
One of the things that I never see people mentioning is the complete retarded thought process behind Ubisoft nerfing everyone above a 50% pick rate. R6 is almost the only game where that's looked as an issue and not "maybe that operator is picked by most teams because it's NEEDED" which is what happens in most team based games. There's always going to be characters that are needed. That's like saying you gotta nerf the only 2 healers in a game because everyone picks them...
I also find it funny that they made Zofia a 1 speed and then get surprised everyone shifts to Ash, "what do you mean no one wants to play a entry fragger that's the last one entering the building???".
Not to mention that all problems the meta has been dealing for the past 3 years were the consequence of all of Ubisoft's nerfs. And they just keep pilling up more nerfs! I'm tired of the mentatilty that most games have nowadays of nerfing everything bellow instead of making everything viable.
The players are also at fault for this. Most recent example were the copium after Smoke has lost his shield with people saying he was always meant to be a roamer or people supporting the grenade nerf.
Tubarão was one of the few nerfs I would agree with but that's mostly cuz they already made the attack unplayable as a consequence of their years of nerfs plus having pretty much no counter.
Anyways, good video. I understand your pain and I hope more people make their voices heard. But sadly I doubt Ubisoft cares either about the game or the players.
I think the Ace changes hit just the right spot, yeah ace being able to deploy multiple selmas on distance is what makes him strong, but being able to deploy mutliple selmas and them exploding faster than bandit has time to trick is what kept him a above other breachers for the sites where people trick the walls. Now the breaching the wall is more focused on countering the tricker with utility rather than just throwing two selmas in to the wall
What I dont get is why they constanly just nerf rather than buff other ops into ones that can compete against the entry-frag/run-and-gun ops. Like Nøkk used to be up there in presence, but with the nade change she fell off the face of the earth. Try to give their guns/abilities some love vs nerfing the over picked ones, if you give more fun frag ops for the 14 y/o on half a bottle of Adderall and 6 cans of monster in then should be less nerf and more fun, all this being theoretical.
"Like Nøkk used to be up there in presence, but with the nade change she fell off the face of the earth."
She was relying on frags and became useless without them.
the current meta is due to recent strong defenders and the 1.5x sight. nerf fenrir solis and the 1.5x, and the current meta goes away.
what they are doing now is temporary balancing until those big changes are released.
Ash and Iana should’ve been nerfed instead of the G36. It’s a cool and fun gun that was supposed to be an alternative to the other rifle.
As for the SMG-11, I never thought it was OP. Though, I think pistols being a viable option would be great. Pistols can get reflex sights like Ela and Zofia’s pistol.
I said back in early year 4, at the rate that they are nerfing operators, eventually, people won’t even use utility much. Instead, people will be using mostly just guns. I basically described the TDM meta 4 and a half years early.
With that said, my ranked 3.0 project I wrote in c++ is in the early stages, but it’s working as of today!
I genuinely and sincerely think that you've gone insane playing this game.
I haven’t played siege regularly in like 2 years now after playing it for a good chunk of my life and getting abt 1 and a half thousand hours of play time, and every time I try to come try it again it just feels like every op is worse. Not harder but just kind of worse, and worse to play. It’s pretty disheartening that this game is just so nothing to play now
My brain is telling me they Nerfed the G36 so not as many people play Ash and Iana. Making it where you have to use other ops with better utility and be more team involved.
Not saying Ash and Iana are useless, but does every attack round need an ash and iana?
Zofia (a better ash) releases so we use her. They hated that everyone used zofia specifically the ar so they nerfed it, they hated that we used her lmg so they nerfed it, naturally we go back to ash and use the r4c but wait.....they nerfed the recoil and took away the scopes for it. So we started playing iana. They didnt like that no one used the g36 so they took away the arx scope. Forcing use to gravitate towards the g36. Literally the most average gun in the game. Its really not even that good if im being honest. A completely unnecessary change. They dont want us using guns that they want us using its quite funny
I don’t know if it was the reasoning, but the G36 on console felt way more broken. It was legitimately next to no recoil, and it feels like that’s what the nerf was targeting. Which, all guns in this game are laser beams
The developers need more qualitative analysis before doing something like this.
Yes many people prefer the optic, but I have friends that love the r4 with a holo, they fry people like eggs, it basically functions as an smg on roids but they don't nerf it because usage rate. Absolute bunk. Maybe they'll nerf the r4 again to prove they hate fun.
This is like if you were playing a fighting game and the character whose entire deal is having good offense and bad defense got their entire offensive kit nerfed because they win more interactions against cornered opponents
Ubisofts approach over the next 10 "balance" patches are going to look like "We have data that all guns in rainbow 6 siege seem to be too accurate when aiming at the enemy team; and this is not fun for the player who gets shot at. Thus we are removing all guns and replacing them with Nerf guns. Also the game is now called Rainbow 6 Nerf Arena." Seriously though how accurate is that data they are using, they claim Emerald rank and above in Ranked play but we all know ranked 2.0 is infested by cheaters nowadays. Or are they gonna take the pro's opinion on it, or content creator's opinion on it? how representative is that? If the gun has an issue in combination with a 1.5x scope, and that has been the case according to Ubisoft, then why are they so damn resilient on keeping that scope in the game? Just remove the damn thing, hell remove scopes from everything except DMRs. See how it goes after that before messing with the core characteristics of a weapon imo. But what do I know, I have no time to waste on a cheater game so it doesn't affect me.
Maybe I should explain that I do not mean to sound dismissive to Siege players in general. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love the concept of the game. But the big G is correct that with games like ReadyOrNot and Apex Legends and Escape From Tarkov there is so many "realistic" tactical shooters on the market now that some windelta rational of nerfing a gun every other patch cycle in siege is not going to bother people. Ubisoft does not need to explain to me why they think that Ash's gun is a fragging gun in the hands of a fragging orientated player. I never felt that when I got killed by an Ash player or a Iana player with the G36C in hand with or without the 1.5x on it was "bad" or "needed a nerf". What Ubisoft owes us, siege players, more of an explanation for is why the game is flooded with spinbot hobos that spend 400 dollars a month on the latest cheat service. I dont care if I get 1 tapped by a good player, I do not care if I loose the round to an Ash on site 10 seconds after the round starts. I do care if I can see them lining up headshots before they can see the defenders or just know where ppl are without any way droning, sounds or callouts. Get headshots while literally aiming at the goddamn floor. That is what is killing this game, that is why I do not buy my friends siege for the new season and ask them to play in a stack with me. This is why I gave up Ranked because it is no longer fair. And yeah, my patience is running thin, soon I won't bother with a season pass anymore for example. This is all revenue that Ubi is letting slip through their fingers and no amount of complaining about it seems to help. They said they were committed to another 10 years of siege, but if there are no legit players left to play with/against do we even care about Ubi's commitments? I do not at least.
Ubisoft when they see a small mag max rpm gun get kills while players hold down the trigger: 😱
Ubisoft when the #2 most used smg is now the #1 most used (the cycle never ends): 😱
I find it stupid how they want operators to be at a certain area where they're played somewhat and win somewhat when that is just not going to happen. Some operators are just better and some operators are just worse so make new operators to counter the good ones or you just allow there to be better operators
Wonder why Ubisoft takes such a unique idea and just is so uninteresting. How are their 40+ ops and all they get is a gun nerf? No rework for ops abilities ? No gun distribution? Why is it always a game of numbers for them…
I still cant get over the nade nerf :.(
Instead of nerfing "op" guns because they're used alot. Why not buff "bad" guns that don't get used much.
I want to say the shotgun changes followed this but its definitely not what ubisofts idea was in doing that to them lol
I've been thinking about the SMG-11 nerf, and had the stupidest thought: it's the Solis nerf. You can't change the P90 in any meaningful way, she has the worst shotgun as the other primary, and Ubisoft is so broken, they can't figure out how to change her gadget in any meaningful way. The reason they give is probably a matter of "no one chooses the handgun on Mute and Smoke" without thinking why the SMG-11 is chosen on them (i have no idea what's used on Aruni as far as secondary, but since she's the only attacker with it, it probably doesn't matter).
"Stop nerfing guns!" Ela: Did someone say my name?