The Lost Vault of Kalimdor (Deep Dive & Lore Theory) | World of Warcraft
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- Happy Friday, everyone! Welcome back to another deep dive/lore theory combo, this time centered around Desolace and the hidden caverns of Maraudon! Is this just a big centaur temple, or is there more than first meets the eye?
0:00 - Intro
0:49 - Part I: History
3:40 - Part II: Containment
4:50 - Part III: Thesis
9:38 - Part IV: Culmination
Video Footage:
- Blizzard Entertainment's World of Warcraft (2004-)
- Some images retrieved from Google Images and WoWpedia
Background Music:
- "Barrens" and "Burning Steppes" from the WoW OST
- "Caverns of Time" from the WoW TBC OST
- "The Tears of Elune (Unofficial WoW Music)" by Rene Pedersen
Outro Music:
- "Watch Me (Live)" by Greta Van Fleet
#worldofwarcraft #wowclassic #seasonofdiscovery
Jediwarlock 2024 - Hry
To be honest I never "saw" that they removed those pillars and everything, it was just feeling kinda weird in Retail that the place was so empty. But ye I feel weirded out now by this, and it's just another piece of Blizz removing a ton of things from old world with Cata.
My biggest disappointment in Cata-Desolace is the abandoned plotline of the Centaur Phariah. With the Amulet of the Union containing the spirits of the ancient khans, he was supposed to unite the centaur clans. And what do we get in Cata? Nothing. The Centaur Phariah was removed from the game as if never existed.
@ffarkasm Great point!
Considering the RPG year stamp is 2003, and WoW released in 2004, then yes you are absolutely right about Maraudon being a Titan Vault. However with the release of Cataclysm maybe they just couldn't figure out how to reinvigorate Desolace in regards to Titan lore? Honestly the Classic Desolace landscape leaves way more unanswered questions than answers with all the structures and the skeletons (though considering the tridents and the serpentine shape of their skulls one can only assume they were some sort of Naga-like creature).
Great thoughts! I will cover the Goliaths later this summer ;)
these deep dives are so good, more of those!!
Thank you! :D More in the future for sure!
Defenitly believe it was titan vault now as orginal idea.
Just makes so much sense
I think so too! :D
I knew something was off about the entrance to Maraudon! The entrance leading up to Maraudon was one of my favourite memories from vanilla WoW. It just looked so cool and ancient the closer you got to the dungeon, I wanted to know more about those ruins. When I came back many years later I wondered why it was so empty and if what I remembered was just my imagination but now I know why.
Haha, you definitely noticed something was up! :D
Wowww, didn't expect the shout out at the end!
Your videos have inspired me to look at the world of classic WoW in a completely different light!
I'm so glad to hear that! Thanks for watching :)
It was still actually considered a titan vault/prison way back right before the cusp of Cataclysm launch during the pre patch event. and it wasn't until Chronicle that it was officially retconned out of existence for some reason. Cho'gall directly states it as such whenever you evesdrop as you are tasked with killing Theredras. Seemingly for good, as Therazane later in Deepholm talks about how we killed her only daughter.
Looking at the adventure guide, it says that Theredras was an elemental princess corrupted by the old gods- which actually seems like a prime candidate for being locked in a titan vault instead of put in the elemental plane of earth. It definitely seems like that was the official story even in cata (a minor titan vault), and Chronicle just decided to change it for shits and giggles.
Interesting stuff! Right on the cusp for sure! :o
I never even knew that this got removed in Cata. Crazy stuff
Yeah! I was like "no way they didn't know what they were hiding" XD
You are definitely one of the best WoW creators, and your content is unique. Much love and stay awesome bro
Thank you so much! :)
Great vid by the way. I like when stuff like this is explored when most people don't know or would ignore.
Thank you! :)
Just wanted to say, love your vids man! You never see people talk about the smaller details in the game, and it really brings light to how great the world of the game is.
Thanks so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it :)
I love these theories and deep dives into all things wow. Geology, lore, etc. all of it is great.
I'm glad you're enjoying these! :D
this is so neat, keep it up :) your videos always make me see the game in a new light
Thanks so much! :)
This is awesome. I recently started casually leveling and exploring in Classic Vanilla because of these videos, and a renewed appreciation and nostalgia for when I first played the game back in 05. I had not noticed these changes. Thanks, and keep 'em coming!
I'm glad I could help bring you back to Azeroth!
Dude you are the #1 WoW CZcamsr, please keep it up!
wtf is Staysafe doing here.
@StaysafeTV Hey, thank you so much man! That means a lot coming from you! :)
Old wow lore was so good and mysterious. Revealing more of lores really does often ruin them.
I agree!
I love your deep dives into the lore of the world, they're always so interesting.
This kind of mystery is so interesting because we're most likely never gonna get an answer to our questions.
Thank you for the great work Jedi!
Thanks so much! :)
Thank you dude.
Theese lore videos ignite my nostolga for wow. I spent hours in this dng never suspecting it was a titan vault.
You are very welcome! I'm glad you're enjoying them :)
Just wanted to congratulate you for the work and content you create, I find it pure art. Please, never stop doing this. Thank you Jedi❤
Thank you very much! That means a lot. :) Many more adventures soon to come!
so cool! The dagger never droped yet, but now my runs would be much more intersting!
Haha, good luck! :)
Great video as always, I consider myself a wow lore geek and I always find me amazed by this findings
Haha, thank you! :)
At this point I wouldn't even consider the RPG book non-canon, a good chunk of it is either still relevant or has been retroactively re-canonized, *especially* Titan-related lore. I could see the cataclysm being used to excuse the missing ruins by saying they were destroyed by earthquakes and removed by the centaurs. We've been uncovering vaults across Kalimdor for a while now, like Alcaz Island, the vault proper in Un'goro... I easily buy this theory.
Great thoughts! You make a good point with the other vaults :)
Quite interesting. I've also always wondered why the undead found in the Valley of Bones in Decolace were classic humanoid skeletons on 2 legs and not 4-leged centaur skeletons (as I assumed it to be a centaur graveyard).
Whose skeletons are those? Are they ancient dead Night Elves? Or did Blizzard just not have enough time to make centaur skeletons so they just used whatever? :]
I looked into this for ya! These Undead Ravagers are in the Valley on their own but can also be summoned by the Outcast Necromancers here. The necromancers summon them using an ability called "Summon Magram Ravager" referring to the Magram centaur clan, so I think they are intended to be centaur skeletons but just kept the base model. :)
A+ vídeo. Please keep it up!
Thank you! :)
Hi. First of all, thank you for keeping up with lore theory. This kind of content is common on Zelda, Elden Ring, Star Wars or The Witcher, is rare for WoW. Moreover, a lot of WoW-lore content creators just repeat themselves (sometimes it is a litteral translation for laguage A to B lol), sometimes wish to make false hype (so I automatically despice them). Moreover, the amount of retcon in WoW is unbearable and some tries to give a sense to that. I remember well about the morally-fushia Sylvanas comment storm in all social media.
It is too rare to see a content creator of WoW that make its own theories and I wish to bring credit and appreciation for that, especially because you verify your own sources. I really enjoy your content.
About retcons : my thought is that they are too convenient. It is not a simple correction on two NCP relationship or on a NPC name, retcons are impactful and the writers should explain them. As for me, I accept no retcon on WoW lore so in my view Maraudon should have stayed connected to Elven ruins or to the Titans.
Thank you for your video !
Thank you for the thoughtful comment! I agree about the retcons... whenever possible, if the devs actually care about the lore they should try to incorporate the existing lore into a new framework. I'm glad you enjoy my vids :)
Great investigation!
Thank you! :)
I love your content man. Might I ask if you are a historian or something similiar in real life? :D The methodical approach is amazing
Hey, thank you so much! :) I am not, but I am a teacher which might contribute to my "lesson" style of video? Not sure XD
Hi Jedi! Great hypothesis!
I've been reading some reviews of the Warcraft RPG books. As much as they're held up as the pillar of alternative lore and how the franchise would have been infinitely better if it had developed along those lines, the reviews do a good job of painting the books in a pretty poor light. With a few exceptions, the lore we got in Frozen Throne and WoW was generally the superior option.
Interesting take! I haven't read them thoroughly yet (I usually just find references to them in my research) but that is good to know!
Desolace got more desolate with the removal of all those structures. Never noticed that, nice find.
I agree! Thank you for tuning in :)
Cool! Never heard this theory before!
Thanks! :D
This was a great deep dive. I think it's fair to allow the devs to recon things from very early Classic lore, but I always prefer it when they find a way to explain some of the janky old lore. So many good CZcams lore speculation videos end up being moot because for the devs/writers, it's easier to just scrub it.
Thanks so much!
Amazing video! Love watching your vids and learning about WoW. You do such a professional job keeping it intelligent and interesting. Great quality thanks for sharing all the fascinating facts, keep up your great work!💫
Thanks so much! I appreciate the kind words :)
Ive always hated questing in Kalimdor. Ive been an EK guy through and through. Needing to go to Kalimdor was always an annoyance to me. I especially hated the barrens, Tanaris, Thousand Needles, and Desolace.
But a while back on a private server, i made a troll hunter. Id played EK to death and knew too mamy quests by heart. I knew i needed a change, a new experience to keep me engaged.
When i got to desolace, i was just there for a new scorpion. But i stuck around to skin the packs of hyenas. Eventually i made my way to the kodo graveyard, and found i could skin the kodos there.
I stayed in Desolace from the entry level for the zone, until almost everything there was gray to me.
Collecting leather from the kodos, kodo meat, and a rare feather drop from thr vultures. Leather for my craft, and the kodo meat and feathers for the AH.
I made literally hundreds of gold there. My more autistic guildmate who farmed spots for gold asked me about it one day as i was going off in the guild chat. Desolace became his golden goose. Bro farmed kodo meat. Bro farmed those feathers, bro farmed the lobster traps and sold the rare fishing rods. Bro froze his exp to farm gold and by the time he was ready to start leveling again, he was the richest among us.
... Rokkaido man, you were a real one.
Desolace went from a zone i absolutely hated, to a zone i couldnt stop going to lol
That is a great story, thank you for sharing!
Dude, start a patreon or at least a ko-fi. I get so excited when I see your wow videos drop.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate that... I will think about that! :)
Nice find dude!
Thanks! :)
Would be cool to see a video on all the massive skeletons in the world and what they could have been
I'll think about it! ;) ...the Desolace Goliaths WILL be addressed in a future video I promise :D
Always enjoy your videos
Glad to hear it! :)
Awsome research!
Thank you! :)
A few things. There's another Titan facility located under Bael Modan, according to the RPG books. It's a place I've been fascinated with forever, especially with the weird things happening in the dwarven fortress.
But also, it's important to remember that early WoW was a lot of ideas that were wild and didn't fit. A lot of people were responsible for a lot of work, and not all of it had the narrative oversight you would expect. This is more of an example of them realizing something never fit enough to their liking. A revision of a draft of the world. Like a draft of a novel that maybe released before the story was truly finished. Which is a sloppy metaphor, but when you consider Blizzard's "story second" edict, especially back then, it makes sense. Like the Draenei and Blood Elves, the stories before didn't all make sense in the vision of the game moving forward. It just happens.
Very true! Thank you for those details ;)
Started the video out thinking you'd be trying to convince me maraudon was and still is a titan vault but I totally agree that "it *was* meant to be that originally" but it didn't go through.
With the total cata removal you can totally guess that in vanilla it was meant to be a place tied with the titans somehow but got scrapped in the end and instead of removing it altogether they kept the architecture ties while scrubbing any actual titan mentions.
Makes sense with vanilla still being more testing ground-ish and unpolished with leftovers of scrapped stuff and stuff that would come out later. The entire zone of Azshara in classic wow is infamous for being a huge but totally unfinished zone with next to nothing in it. Same with classic Hyjal or the gated instance portal in stormwind originally being for player housing.
It'd make sense that Maraudon was intended to be tied to titans and they didn't bother to get rid of the kinda out of place stuff all the way up until the expansion that was all about re-doing the world to be modernized and to fit the lore better where they went "it doesn't really make sense to have all these grand stone arches and pillars in a centaur place"
Great video, always fun to see stuff from you I wouldn't see anywhere else!
Love your thoughts! I'm glad you enjoyed this. :)
Good job with the video! 👏👍🙂
Thank you! :)
Great sleuthing, per usual.
Thank you! :)
Really interesting
Thanks! :)
Excellent!
Thanks! :)
If I remember well, the removal of these structures was linked to them not being mapped for flying (i.e. you could fly through and fall off the world). given these structures don't show up a lot, I suppose they couldn't be bothered, which kind of shows given how little attention the south west of Kalimdor got during Cataclysm.
Oh, that's definitely possible! I forgot about the flying update. :)
I'm convinced!
Awesome! :D
those rpg books are a godsend for anyone trying to figure out classic lore
Yeah! I definitely want to read more of them :)
8:03 thinking about how many years I did Mauradon without noticing that was a giant creature I was walking into lol!
XD It's easy to miss if you don't look up!
“That even blizzard have tried to erase…” oh yeah you know you’re in for some BS when you hear a line like that
XD
I wonder if this was the original place where you where going to find the Plates of Uldum to open an unreleased Uldum instance, this would make sense why they removed the titans ruins in Cata, now that Uldum was a zone it didn't need the plates and they also removed the Uldum Pedestal in Tanaris
Great idea! It could have definitely been a possible plan :)
love this stuff
Thank you! :)
I wonder, does Myzrael, in Arathi, have a similar story and demeanor as Theradras? She's also very unfriendly, and when you mentioned Theradras calling out to the tauren, it reminded me of the quest chain involving Myzrael.
That's true!! Very similar story, another powerful elemental trapped beneath the earth! :D
I always did like the origin story of the Centaurs very much akin to Greek or other ancient Mythology
Agreed! :)
It's so sad that they just removed all these ruins without explanation
Agreed! D:
Fun fact: in book "Exploring Azeroth: Kalimdor" there is no chapter about Desolace.
Oh no! T_T
Today my 40 HC priest died in Desolace. The same day I see a video about Desolace. What are the odds.
Oh no! That is quite the coincidence, though!
PS: Hey Jedi, is there any way we could get in touch? If you are interested in it, I have some other lore ideas that I would love to share.
For sure, man! I have a channel email on my About page. :)
@@Jediwarlock Hey, I sent you an email (mentioned my name ("RunsWithBears") in the title. Have you received it? I'm concerned that it might end up in your spam folder. :x
That waterfall area you see at 5:40, a scene with *sky* visible. Where the hell is this in Maraudon? I measured it out relative to the entrance once inside, then repeated outside. I came up with a spot a ways off the coast of that Troll fishing village. Of course, there are no big cracks in the surface of Maraudon if you go looking for such.
How do you not know where it is. Have you ever done the instance? It is the bridge area just before princess.
@@Bramandin Not where in Maraudon is that, *where in Desolace* is that? Since you can look up and see *sky* that means there *should* be a corresponding spot, *outside of the instance*, outside, that corresponds. A gash in the earth, with trees and a river or lake, where you can look down and see some of the instance. Yeah, Bliz would have had to put an invisible wall around or over it, to keep players from jumping in.
Bliz has demonstrated that they had at least a few devs capable of syncing stuff like that. That giant pair of doors at the end of Deadmines matches up with that giant pair of doors you see if running/swimming up the coast on the outside.
@@sikhandtakerakhuvar9678 It is not in Desolace at all. It isn't in the "real world".
Yeah, it's not scaled properly with the outer environment (like a lot of instances), but canonically it would probably be a fissure in the mountain range behind the Valley of Spears/Maraudon. :) I like how you brought up the Deadmines Doors as those are probably the best example of syncing between the dungeon and the external map. Another that comes to mind is the Caer Darrow overlook in Scholomance or perhaps even the throne patio of Blackrock Spire! (you can see the castle lookout from the ground of Burning Steppes if you look closely) ;)
@@Jediwarlock I once tried to 'backdoor' Scholomance by flying over to, and landing on, that balcony. Bad move - wasn't actually connected from there, and the railing was too high for that toon -- think I used a feral? -- to jump over. That bit has since been removed -- that was back in WoLK days, when you had to pull a semi-hidden lever to open that treasure chest past the library area.
At first I was like "yeah its a stretch" but the last 2 things made everything. Could this be related to the giant dead goliaths of Desolace?
I really wish I knew what was the inspiration for those dead goliath skeletons. Like in the heads of the original devs.
It's possible! I will address those in a future vid ;)
It has NEVER made sense why the Titans merely imprisoned the Old Gods. Ripped them out being off the table, I understand. But why not squish them then? Crush them. The only reason I could think of being logical is that the Titanic facilities were draining and utilizing the power of the Old Gods, or that they knew that killing them merely sent them back to the Void, just like with Demons and the Twisting Nether.
That's a great question! I like your idea. :)
man what were they thinking with cata
I don't know XD
❤ you're the best
Thank you! :D
On the topic of naming conventions, how did the name of a Russian fast food chain (Теремок) that features *Russian* food wind up in Maraudon?
Of course WOW used to do well in Russia before sanctions and a drop in like that is quite possible
Very good question! I had no idea about that XD
Metzen will come for you in the night lol
Oh no XD
Question were is the princess if thundaron can come back why hasn't the princess she wasn't slayed in deepholm but a cave on azaroth
What? Was this english?
@@pavelkrusstev8461 the elemental lords can only be truly defeated in there elemental plan that why rag is dead and Thunderaan is alive
But Theradras wasn't she wasn't killed in the elemental plan of earth just a cave she shouldn't be dead dead and she wasn't she comes back in the cataclysm pre patch but hasn't been seen or heard of since
You make a good point!
Bliz and its lack of good institutional memory as to what was planned in the beginning and losing staff and never documenting things internally well probably means there's a good 50 or more pieces that were left incomplete in the Classic version of the game, some of which do not appear in the current "re-created" emulation of Vanilla that we have now.
Remember that, always, what is in 'classic' and 'classic hard core' are emuations (along with the heavily modified 'SoD') and that they are not complete Vanilla versions.
I agree! There's probably a lot of stuff the original devs knew that we never got to see :o
Hail all
:D
Jediwarlock? More like Jedisherlock.
That's me! XD
You know this brought to my attention some weird inconsistency. Maybe I'm missing something though, idk.
Basically, the elements are portrayed as this peaceful, harmonic force revered by shamanistic cultures, and yet at the same time, they're also servants of chaos? Although, nature can be pretty chaotic so frankly a yin and yang type of thing does make sense, yet the tauren and orcs seem to regard them as being mostly positive.
You bring up a good point! I think ideally the elements are more on the tranquil side and can be used in harmony by the mortal races, but the more aggressive Elemental Lords allying with the Old Gods have thrown things out of wack. Additionally, the physical environment can affect the elementals and if the earth is disturbed then sometimes they can become hostile.
It's not explained well in Classic, but my hypothesis is that there are some competing factions to the elementals behind the scenes that could explain why things are very yin and yang, as you say. For example, Duke Hydraxis and his water elementals ally with mortals to take down Ragnaros, and yet just one zone away in Winterspring, Princess Tempestria and her watery forces invade the zone and plan on destroying the mortals there. We then see isolated elementals like those summoned in Shaman questlines that seem pretty far removed from any of the "politics" of the elements. So, elementals can have a variety of motivations in my opinion and interact differently depending on which group they belong to, if any. :)
Just my random thoughts but hopefully that makes a bit of sense?
Same with Stonetalon Mountain's
Its been evicenced that Earthen have been found there, why?
Where exactly? I Do not remember seeing them.
@@Bramandin Goggeroc from Earthern Arise
Oh boy... here we go again! XD
@@Jediwarlock What do you mean, has this been referenced before? lol
@@Lukelearbomb Haha, no, I just mean this is gonna send me on the theorizing road again! XD I've added this to my future video ideas list ;)
Love this hopefully this inspires Pyromancer to investigate the Centaur.
Yeah! :D
Zank u
You're zelcome!
Maybe Terramok was named before it could be finished? Great video though!
Definitely possible! :)
Amazing video! Only old canon is real canon for me. New stuff is not cannon as it is not created by the original artists but by poorly paid vandals.
I agree the old world/lore/story/devs are definitely what to pay attention to! :D
just another reason to show they ruined the old world with cata.
Agreed. I did not enjoy the Cata. We lost the amazing Dwarven Heads Dam and the entire second island by Feathermoon Feralas, the fire elevator at Thousand Needles, and the Barrens were ruined.
Yeah! D: ...I respect people who are rolling forward into Cata Classic but I personally don't think it's for me.
mara sucked so hard to get groups for.
Yeah lol
yyyyyyyyyyyyyyees?
Yes
Arm those tin foil hats
Yes!!
They just reused assets...
mmmmmmm, no.
Some of them, maybe?