Why I Don't Recommend Cast Iron Ratcheting 5.4L 2v Timing Chain Tensioners in 5.4L 3v Engines!
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- In this video we explore why Ford is shying away from the use of ratcheting chain tensioners in their engines.
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This guy really knows his stuff. I'm very fortunate to have his shop 10 minutes from my house. He did the timing job on my 2004 5.4 3v. Over 205,000 miles still purring like a kitten. I had an electrical issue recently and he offered to squeeze me in last minute. I was able to figure it out on me own, but proof he actually really cares, much like you see in his informative videos. Keep em coming! really appreciated!
your very blessed, miami fl here very hard to find this quality mech i own a 2000 5.4 2v soon here i might even vacation up there have a few problems id like to get fixed
What was the electrical issue? My 2007 Mark LT has an electrical issue that seems to be due to an ABS error.
Well,, I have had 2- 5.4 2 valve 5.4's in my 2003 e350 econoline that have ran over 505,000 miles each with out being opened up ever. Ran absolutely beautiful!
I bet they had the ratcheting tensioners. That being said, the 2004 4.6 had plastic tensioners and it isn't a common problem for them to have timing problems like the 5.4 3v.
@@davidroberson1962the issue is the phasers causing chain turbulence and increased "push back" pressure and fords "genius" plastic and o ring gasket design!
Thank you for this video!! Do not use ratcheting tensioners in a street vehicle! They caused two camshaft failures in my 08 built Mustang. You are the world's 3V expert. Thank you for all your videos!
Can you elaborate? Explain how they caused a camshaft to fail? Because I've had a cam failure using the plastic tensioners but never with the ratcheting iron tensioners.
@@CLPATTERSON "built" Mustang is probably the key phrase to understanding the problem. High flow, high pressure pump coupled with someone changing cams and running the engine at high RPM would increase the pressure on the engine in spurts and cause stretch.
I can almost guarantee what happened here is it is a manual and he is power shifting it. IE: Holding the gas down full throttle all the time and shifting without letting off the gas. The sudden spike as the RPM flies up during the shift could possibly grab a new tooth.
In an F150 with an automatic transmission this isn't going to happen because you aren't regularly hitting high RPM. The rev limiter/redline is around 5k rpm on a F150.
People don't "build" a Mustang to stay under 3-4k RPM like our trucks spend their days. Redline is north of 6k and with a tune is probably 7k+.
The 3.5 in the picture had 1 giant chain as he said. They changed this in later ones and replaced it with 2 to fix the chain stretch. The redline of the 3.5 is higher than the 5.4 too and it is a turbo.
I usually take what FordTech says as gospel but I don't think his concerns are justified here. The metal tensioner had a proven track record on this engine in the 2v.
The lost pressure from the plastic tensioners is the the problem with these engines and why the guides get worn and broke as the chain slaps around hitting them.
Previous owner put the ratcheting tensioners in my 2005 5.4L 3V. I did the timing chain, tensioners, guides, etc. just after buying it from him. He must have revved the engine cold, because the tensioners had cracked every guide, and the tensioners off-side guides were both snapped. Timing job was only 30k miles old. Now I've put 35k miles since doing the timing job again but using the composite tensioners, and haven'T had any problems.
Since both tensioners are oil feed actuated, if you Rev it cold and produce the same oil pressure, won't the non-ratcheting tensioner put the same load on the chain as the ratcheting? Only difference is that the non-ratcheting tensioner will allow the load on the chain to decrease with low oil pressure. What oil pump does it have in it?
@@D2O2 The problem with ratcheting is that if you rev the motor cold and the tensioner ratchets to the next level, it's going to keep too much tension on the chain, and the chain ends up stretching prematurely. With the regular composite tensioner, even if you rev the motor cold, it could temporarily overtension the chain, but only for fractions of a mile. It had the Melling HV in it. I replaced it with a new Melling HV.
@@baitse7676 Broken guides are typical on 5.4 3 valves. The chain slapping the guide from being too loose (blown out tensioner seal on composite body tensioners) and then the oscillating load and increased displacement which results when a phaser fails (lock pin) and coupled with increased position error from lack of proper oil flow to generate the needed pressure as a result of the blown out tensioner. The first sign of a failed tensioner is the 3-5 second cold start rattle. So, broken guides are expected. The root cause of right bank valve train failures is the result of improper oil flow caused by a blown out composite body tensioner seal.
@@D2O2 gotcha, but the timing chain guides got wrecked by the ratcheting tensioners in my case
@@baitse7676 How do you know that they were wrecked by the ratcheting tensioners?
I just replaced my whole timing set last year as a preventative when the vehicle hit 160,000 miles. I use the cast-iron tensioners but if Something Happens I’ll just have to replace the chain and put in the new tensioner‘s. Definitely not going to open it back up now! Everything has been fine so far though. Something to think about… The 5.4 2valve engines almost never have any timing issues whatsoever… If they use the old ratcheting style tensioner is in those ,then it shouldn’t be that big of a deal to use them in the three valve engines either. You should definitely listen to Brian’s advice because he is probably the foremost expert on these engines, but I think if you have already done it it’s not a huge issue and you don’t need to go ripping your engine back apart.
bad guide wear chain stretch and chains actually snapping was one thing I use to see alot on the older 2v engines, pick your poison
do you know if we go with the cast iron tensioners i read somewhere that dont use the metal gasket it comes with, is that true???
So you've never seen the plastic ones fail then, crack or anything. I'm sure engineers knew if it would cause problems w keeping timing accurate without haveing tensioners to lock so there would be no play anywhere, especially w phasers and valves now compared to the 2 valve. But then again they dont want things to last or they wouldnt keep bringing in money selling parts, right.
Just my 2 cents, not trying to debate, lol.
@@tylermulkey330 no, I pull these engines apart with the factory installed metal tensioners and I have never seen the metal backing plates on any of them....I do not know what the metal plate is for to be honest, maybe a different application?
@@royalblood2405 Less so than the 5.4 3v having an issue because of their tensioners being plastic with gaskets. Modifying the metal tensioner gives you the benefit of no gasket but the function of the plastic one.
I'd also point out that those problems were likely all Mustangs and not the F150. The manual transmission and power shifting spikes oil pressure betweens spikes and could possibly overtension the cast iron one. The RPM limit on the Mustang is higher than the F150. An automatic isn't hitting the red line on it's own.
I get your thought process on this. But then again I've owned first gen triton engines with ratcheting style tensioners and put well over 200K+ on them without ever needing timing components replaced. The ratchet causing premature wear is feasible I suppose but I'd bet ford's "updated" tensioners for the 3.5 is probably more a cost savings thing for them than an actual improvement. Would be fun to actually be able to talk with the Ford engineers and see what they were up to. Would be nice if someone made a factory style replacement that was steel bodied and didn't have the ratcheting mechanism also. The inlaid gasket on the plastic style tensioner is what fails on them after all.
Not a cost saving issue, this is a service part for customer pay.
@@FordTechMakuloco hey brian i got a question about this, i couldnt figured out or yet understand fully what's the difference if one will fail 100k later by seal failure and that will cause phaser uses maily the passenger whats the life spam of the cast iron one?
i do not want to go through the hassle of the seal failing later on if the cast iron will outlast it. Now to the point if the cast iron will always be in tension even at start up but both tensioners use oil pressure. Do i just need to remove the ratcheting pin off i know you didnt recommend no modifications but just to kinda clear my confusion in respect to the mechanism of this tensioners wouldnt that be the solution to the issue since the cylinder comes with a spring and really i dont see where it would be the failure by doing so ? Thanks man you have help lots throughout my personal project.
I been trying to figure out which tensioner is better for months. Thank you for addressing this issue Brian.
do you know if we go with the cast iron tensioners i read somewhere that dont use the metal gasket it comes with, is that true???
On my 06, I use the MMR billet tensioners that are designed for use in non-ratcheting mode. I also use their billet chain guides with wear strips. I've put over 150,000 on the truck and use it off-road regularly. Am very pleased with the results.
I think that is what I am going to try on mine. Ford obviously can't get the timing system right after all these years.
Thanks for posting real-world experiences about the MMR components.
Thanks for the feedback on the MMR guides and tensioners. This is what I was planning to use on my 4.6 3V Mustang.
@@sdvten Well this video alone proves that Ford can't even make their mind up about ratcheting and non-ratcheting tensioners, as the 2V 5.4 is much older than the 3V 5.4 and 3.5, and we've seen them go from ratcheting, non-ratcheting, racheting and non-ratcheting again lmao
Thank you for your continued educational videos, Brian!
I've updated my little video regarding the guides being eaten on my own 4.6L 3v (and my speculations thereto) with a link back to here, as I had quite a few questions myself on whether these were any good or not. I'm glad I didn't get them, and I'm glad to spread the word as well.
Hope that's ok, sir, please keep doin' what you're doin' when you can do it, it is *very* much appreciated!
PS: It was your 5.4L 3v 4-parter that gave me the strength and courage to tackle that timing job on mine, and I can't thank you enough for it. Saved my Mustang!
That puts me at ease. Elbows deep in this repair. I used tge OEM because you did, but the internet know it all had me questioning that choice. Right on.
Getting ready to do a chain set on my 2011 Crown Vic and I’m glad I caught this video. I was going to spend extra for cast iron tensioners.
How many miles on it
@@leardi58 my Vic has 177k miles on it.
cast iron is fine on the 4.6, the 1992-00 Panthers used the metal tensioners and the early release 03s did as well---these will have a white X with 3 dots above it on the front of the valve covers indicating the metal tensioners were put on the engine when new and still in the warehouse... The 4.6 with the plastic tensioners get real bad start up chain slap after 8-10 years of use from the tensioners getting weak...I get so tired of hearing this start up rattle and put in metal tensioners....that chain slap will bust the chain guides...go metal for the 4.6 imo...
Thanks again Brain. Your go to guy for public service announcements for FORD cars and trucks. Best mechanic on CZcams for FORD'S.
Thoughtful analysis usually wins over impulse or "everyone's doing it" and that's what you provide. A lot of things are counterintuitive. Thanks! Even though I don't own one I enjoy the thought process.
Thanks for the in depth info on the tensioners and all components that are affected by it. Crazy how the ratcheting can contribute to early chain stretch and failure!
Only on the 3.5. It never did on the 5.4 2v that I have ever heard anyone say.
Just bought the cast iron tensioners. Sending the back soon.
Thanks for looking out for us!
First off...Thanks for all you do for us! Your videos and commentary are awesome. Second...I have one follow-up question. Does this apply to the 5.4L 2V engines also? I thought you recommended using the metal OEM tensioners on those over the replacement plastic ones with the weak gasket. Maybe this applies only to the 3V and newer eco-boost engines. That would be my guess, but I'd like to confirm. The reason I ask is I'm going to do a timing job on a 5.4 2V from my 03 F150. 300K plus miles and this will be the second set. FYI, I had issues with the first plastic replacement set blowing out and breaking a guide.
I myself have replaced timing chains and phasers on these 5.4 3v before and from what i have witnessed, is that the thin o-ring gasket failed and on the back of tensioner on the plastic ones. Only symptom this last engine had was rattle on start up for 5 seconds. Found one tensioner gasket blown out. I do however replace with oem parts.
Thanks for the insight Brian. I hope I never have to do the timing again, but if so I’ll use OE.
Brian I have a 2006 F150 with the 5.4 3v with 269,000 miles. No issues with this truck ever except the rear differential which was rebuilt by the local version of you about 8 years ago. I switched to 5W30 full synthetic several years ago (before I found your channel) because I was worried about heat effects vs cold on the oil (I live in coastal Alabama and rarely see sub freezing temps). Other than regular oil changes how do I keep timing issues at bay? I’m not into tearing down an engine for something that is not an issue yet unless it is an absolute do or die due to said mileage. My engine uses oil between changes but the underside is completely dry with no leaks on the engine or drive train. I absolutely love this truck so I want to preserve it as long as possible.
I heard running some BG EPR can help significantly with oil consumption issues.
I used the non ratcheting tensioner from a cloyes kit one time. Looks exactly the same. Had to redo the job as it wouldn't keep it tight. Only dealer tensioners from there on out.
Love your info! Still have my ‘08 F-150. Good to know if I need a replacement… before I sell it.
Very insightful. Didn't imagine, but as soon as you described the issue it seems clear. Much better to have oil pressure, or spring than a ratchet with quantized graduations.
This reminds me of worm-gear cooling hose clamp thing.
Thanks!
Until you don't have oil pressure, like during cold start and the chain is flopping around beating up the plastic guides until they fail and the pieces end up clogging the oil pick-up screen further reducing oil flow and subsequent pressure.
@@D2O2 You mean, until the seals have failed on the tensioner. Yeah, that's bad. A good non-ratcheting tensioner does not collapse.
@D so would you said a modification is needed to the cast iron one like removing the ratcheting pin or as ive seen people do remove about 2 to 4 teeth of it and some others also add a spacer to extended plus removing the teeth ? I do believe they are better but would like to have it install the best way it can be.
Words are hard, I feel ya brother lol excellent video as always. Saw another channel recently about the new phasers out now and how Ford is tellin all their dealers and parts shops to sell all the old stock phasers FIRST before selling them the new design enclosed phasers. He said to stress that you want the new enclosed phasers and make sure you’re given the new phasers and not the old as they’ve got a lot of the old phasers in stock around the country still and don’t want to eat that cost. Not sure if you’ve came across this as well or not, but figured I’d let y’all know about it. Was on the flying wrenches or something like that was the channel name. Fairly recent video he did too.
Oh on the second gen ecoboost yes.
thank God I didn't go with the racheting kind after my first timing job tensioner failed from a sub par gasket from cloyes. learned an expensive lesson
Who knew that a plastic tensioner was "better" than a metal one? I'll definitely bear that in mind when I change out the timing set on my 3.0 V6 Duratec engine.
Hi Mike, is it a 3.0 V6 Duratec From An escape? I have a 2007 3.0 V6 Duratec Escape and i was wondering what kinf of mileage should we do a timing overhaul? Great engines BTW.
Good morning Brain and thank you for all the information !!
Another excellent informative video but it brings up a recent concern I have a 99expedition 5.4 2v with mostly trouble free mileage at 350k. At 270k it developed the RR head gasket seep and at the time it was going thru a quart of oil every 8-900 miles. Piston rings were encased in carbon despite oil changes every 3k with motorcraft oil but timing chain guides showed minor wear. cleaned up the original pistons, ball honed the block used ford oe ring package melting 176 oil pump and one of the aftermarket timing kits you discussed in prior videos. Fast forward to now. Oil consumption is less than 1/4 quart at 3k but started getting grinding noise from LF cover. Turns out the right guide was worn through the white portion of the plastic, however the left completely wore through the guide and a good part of the tensioner piston. Just got done putting in all new Ford RFF, lifters and timing set but I did use the Melling ratcheting tensioner as you described in prior videos. I now see the huge difference in abrasion to he guides from the OE ford chain which is smooth and machined on the back side vs the aftermarket which is not. Do you believe the rapid wear of the guide is more related to the chain or the tensioner on this motor? Also as an aside every RFF and lifter tested fine,is this a design difference from the 3v RFF or supplier quality issue?
Watching your channel l was able to fix my 5.4 after one of the valve springs broke on cyl #6. While at it ended up installing complete timing kit with tentioners and oil pump upgrade.
Found plastic chunks broken from one of the chain guides right around where it bolts up to the block.
This is around 83.000 miles.
Inspected roller followers and they looked fine. Perhaps l will replace them this winter for a piece of mind.
I had just heard about this. Thanks for addressing it.
You do a very good explanation of the difference in tensioners! I believe your right! This IS causing excessive wear for the chain!
👆Thanks for watching, love you so much fan!
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Thank you for that information I will use the plastic ones for sure
Thanks Brian for sharing your knowledge, just in time because I am actually looking to replace the timing components on my 5.4l 3V
👆Thanks for watching, love you so much fan!
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My Marquis has 435,000 miles. I guess I need to get that chain replaced. Great video!
At 266,000 miles, I redid the front end on my 06 5.4 due to a severe oil leak at the timing cover.
There was virtually no wear on the tensioner pads and no discernable stretch on the chains.
Still went out of my way to get the 2V tensioners as I felt like the failed tensioner gasket may have contributed to the oil leak.
That 5.4L must have had a great oil change history !
@@alb12345672 Funny you say that. I bought the truck new and changed the oil religiously either motorcraft or Valvoline high mileage oil and I was amazed there wasn't a spec of sludge anywhere inside that engine.
Still going strong at 281k with original phasers.
@@pescatoralpursuit1726 I switched to Valvoline high mileage from Mobil 1 syn and noticed it holds up much better. Magnetic drainplug helps also.
Wasn't sure where to put this so I commented on this video. If you get an Expedition in with a complaint about the keyless entry no working on the passenger doors, check and see if the lift gate has been disabled. I disabled ours due to handicap lift on the back, took me a while to figure out that by disabling the lift gate, it also disables the keyless entry on the passenger doors only.
Even after resetting the lift gate, the keyless entry would fail after 2 days, I did a BMS reset and so far it's still working, Maybe the dealer had disconnected the battery the last service it went in for. It started after the service.
My 05 has ratcheting tensioner, after 2 sets of stock guides and Tensioners failed, also has billet guides and phaser lock outs and for ford racing hot rod cams, no problem since they was installed
I’ve got a 2001 f150 5.4 with 454600 miles on it and the timing chains have never been replaced the valve covers have never been off we at work have replaced timing components in vehicles with less than 130000 miles I use the the oe style tensioners myself
Hmm. Love your videos and trust your knowledge. However my 300,000 mile 2001 4.6 has the original cast iron tensioners and timing set and I detect no signs of chain stretch issues. Its been so reliable that I installed the cast iron tensioners on my sons 2008 5.4 3 valve 6 years ago and so far so good with 125,000 miles since the change. Just sharing my experience.
We are speaking of the 3v engines where the operating parameters have changed. Not much is shared with the 4.6L 2v
I changed to a ratchet tensioner on my 2004 fx4 5.4l 3 v at 100895 miles now truck has 388947 miles no timing chain issues yet had lifters with problems,but just checked chain to remove cams for lifter replacement chain still has great tension on it, so I recommend these on 5.4l for durable long chain life. I don't know about the eco boost engines but most of the people I know that have this engine have entirely to many timing issues even more than the 5.4l did. I had found composite tensioners fail at only 74000 miles.
Did you lock the phasers.? With them
Thank you very much for your very informative videos! US cars in Germany are not so widespread and there are some differences to EU vehicles. There are already a few good workshops here, but they can be paid dearly for their knowledge. I am a mechanic myself and can do most of it myself, but often there is a lack of information such as tightening torques or experience with spare parts and improvements.
I go with the irons myself as I just don't want to deal with the gaskets blowing out and going soft. If the modulars had an updated one like them ecos had I would have done it but for now I'll stick with iron.
Did you allready install iron ones or not yet?
@@satchitananda1820 yes, they come in Ford Performance's timing kits for the older Modular 4V engines.
Doing the same. 96k on my Expy and tensioner was leaking. Going with the metals.
I wish you would do more 5.0 content. These 5.4 3v's are getting rarer and rarer.
I never see them.
Can you do a video on the reliability/common issues with the 6.2 v8 found in the f150, raptors, and super duty trucks?
I had plastic tensioners in my 5.4 2v. The seal on the tensioner blow out causing a nice tick and destroying the timing chain guides. I replaced them with cast iron tensioner and the guides. its been running great every since
Yeah they seem to work well with the 2v engines as designed.
@@FordTechMakuloco Thats great to hear. It was really annoying a low mileage engine and a stupid tensioner gasket caused lots of problems and cost.
A lot of the 3V 6.8ls had that problem too.
@@FordTechMakuloco do you know if we go with the cast iron tensioners i read somewhere that dont use the metal gasket it comes with, is that true???
This might be the only time I disagree with you. You have a lot more experience with this 3v motor than I do. My argument would be, the ecoboost chain is twice as long and that 1 chain is turning 4 cams and a water pump. While the 2 and 3v are only turning 1. I've seen numerous 2 valve engines with 300-400 grand on the odo. Granted I've seen a bunch of timing problems on them but not near the rate of the 3 valve. You could be right though I'm just defending what I been doing for years. To be honest I’ve yet to have a come back since the high volume oil pump came out. You shown me that and thanks
I put the HV oil pump in along with the front end rebuild and the first thing that happened was it blew the VT solenoid screens out!
Yup like I said the eco is totally a different animal having chain stretch issues for at least 3 verified reasons. As for the composite 5.4L 3v tensioners, the full switch was made when they went to the 3v engines which have a different power band, calibration and power rating. I personally have seen the composite tensioner go 180-200k miles on 2010+ engines (which already have the latest service part gasket design).
@@pescatoralpursuit1726 Mine did that with the factory pump at 270k miles. It wasn't the HV/HP pump. It was time.
Good info Brian, thanks
metal tensioners on the SOHC 4.6 Ford are vital due to the tensioner ratcheting arms preventing loose chains on start up. Loose chains on start up will cause the chains to slap the chain guides and eventually bust them...
I'll definitely explore these plastic tensioners more...
Is there any way to make them last longer or extend the already slapping noise at startup I'm running into that problem now on a 2011 Ford crown Vic police interceptor with 140k on it
@@leardi58 the ones in you car are plastic, the seal probably failed I'm building a motor for my 2006 CVPI the ford proformance 2v kit comes with metal tensioners,
Why don't they just make a cast iron non ratcheting tensioner? I mean Ford has been using a timing chain and tensioner setups like this in modulars since the early 90's. There is zero reason there should still be tensioner issues after all this time.
their business is running out😆
I have a 2010 f150 5.4 with 55,000 miles start up rattle began at 36,000 I recently disassembled to inspect and found one blown tensioner gasket. I used felpro tensioner gaskets and reused tensioners all the timing components were in great condition. I added a melling high volume pump, truck runs great start up rattle is gone.
This is kind of what I'm wondering. if you catch this issue early can you just replace the tensioners or tensioner gaskets. I have the same issue. 2013 Expedition 5.4 76k miles. Developed brief start-up rattle a few months after buying it used. I'm assuming it wasn't doing it before I bought it but even now its intermittent
@@ncd7184rock auto has fel-pro gaskets that will work with only factory tensioners under $10. It's been over a year now no problems. I did a thorough inspection of all the timing parts, everything looked good.
M276 3.5 eco same same. Hydrologic tensioners came standards, but still lower oil pressure at startup gives you a chain slap rattle. Eventually screwing up cam adjusters and throwing codes.
I would be inclined to go for the non-ratcheting upgraded Ford plastic tensioner with the new gasket
But combine that with a high volume / high pressure Melling Oil pump
High volume standard pressure pump M340HV is much better.
@@FordTechMakuloco why lower pressure?
@@FordTechMakuloco can you elaborate on that statement, please? You have a video stating you put the M360HV on an ‘04 F-150 5.4 3V and had very good things to say about it. That video was 4 years ago, so why has your opinion changed since then?
I’m literally setting the timing right now on my ‘06 Expedition. The video above is making me question the cast iron tensioner I bought (I also have the plastic ones from the timing kit I bought) and now I’m questioning if the M360HV also needs to be swapped out for the M340HV before buttoning it all up .
@@FordTechMakuloco the only difference between M360HV and M340HV is the 60vs80 psi relief bypass spring. They both are HV pumps with thicker OPGs. For a mustang the 360 would be better for high revving and keeping pressure up before dumping back to sump. On a truck the 340 would be alright.
@@FordTechMakuloco well I just bought the 360 for when I do my timing on my 07 5.4 3v. Should I return it and get the 340?? Now I'm worried lol
Thanks for the info, I have a 2004 E350 Super Duty van with 180K. The engine sounds very quiet and runs smooth and has only had a diet of synthetic oil since new. When should I do the timing chains? It of course is a 2V engine. Also, do I use these original style cast tensioners on my 2V engine or not?? Also, is it worth it to install new cams and rockers when it is all apart???? I plan on keeping this van forever, or until I die. Runs amazing.
Awesome tutorial
👆Thanks for watching, love you so much fan!
👆 Tell Aɴᴅʀᴇɪ Jɪᴋʜ, you were referred by me he has something new to share with you easily get in touch with him
Absolutely interesting.
Great video! I have a 2007 F150 with 4.6 2 valve. Any timing issues with those? It has over 150,000 and still runs strong! 🙂
I have a 2008 f150 with the 4.6. Excellent engine, no timing chain rattle noise at all and it hit 200k miles 2 weeks ago. Previously I had 2 2007 Expedition with the 5.4, both needed the timming around the 200k mark. Luckly someone got in my way at a traffic light and the insurance bought my SUV, but I still liked it so I bought a beautiful blue eddie bauer Expy. The blue one went out of time but the first mechanics i took it to told me it probably was the trans, lets just say I got rid of it with a small loss. I got this f150 from a buddy and he has always changed his oil regurarly, only issue I had was a bad fan clutch and some suspension damage from all the construction in my area. I am very happy with the 4.6. I want to do the timming chain job myself, but it might go a while more before it even needs it.
Those 4.6 2valves are hardy engines. Just ask Cleetus McFarland. :D
Thank you for the info.
what effect does using the melling oil pump with increased flow/pressure have on the plastic tensioners' gasket fail rate/MTBF though?
Do you think permatex black could be used on the outside portion of the seal as a fail safe? Also how common are valve spring failures? My dads 2010 f150 5.4 3v was bought new mostly good oil change intervals engine is clean just some light varnish in some areas and it had start up rattle for atleast 10k miles and then developed phaser start up knock in the past few months current mileage 195k. Debating on changing valve springs too since ford ones are around 150 total from one what I found on a quick search. Should I just leave them since they lasted this long and haven't failed or do they break just from being worked and worn. Have not heard you adress valve springs only saw the jasper engine video with a broken spring but it was failed piston on the other side so am curious if it is worth the time and money to install myself also don't want to blow out the spark plug holes on passenger side since I allready have that valve cover off and it was hard to pull out with one of the main engine harnesses against the firewall I had to push down to get it to clear the cam other than that 2010 seems much better access on both sides compared to older 5.4s.
I am replacing my timing set on my 4.6 2v 2001 F150 with 218,000 miles on it. After the right cylinder head cam went bad. should I get this new type of tensioner? I am replacing the oil pump and all the sensors as well as all the gaskets. The bottom end looks great.
Why not just use melling? They make a cast replacement for the 3valve, I just got melling roller followers , melling lash adjusters, ford phasers, ford guides, melling harden steel crank gear. And ford vvts ???
Another Choose Your Adventure story. I can choose this one
They didn't work on my 3v... Had to prime the oil system, pedal to the floor and crank to build oil pressure before starting it otherwise I had chain slap. Phasers went out and I installed plastic tensioners and removed the cast iron. Cast iron tensioners fs cheap only 5k miles on them 😂
My mechanic says you have to prime the tensioners by hand cranking before closing everything up. He recommends the metal tensioners and locked phasers.
so does this mean that if you have the 2v you should not put the cast iron tensioner back in but use the newer composite?
MAKE SO MUCH SENSE...THANK YOU
I'm installing new tensioners but gasket came off I know I can tighten it and it'll stay in place but would I be better off taking it off and using the felpro ES73226 tensioner gasket looks more durable to me than oem what are your thoughts on it
I’ve seen the ratcheting tensioners destroy the cam towers in the 3v cylinder heads. The chains apparently don’t stretch faster then the aluminum towers distort and wallow right out
I have a question. I changed the timing chain on my Ford f150 2005 (5.4) it was running great for about 8 months but having trouble taking off after coming to stop now not able to go over 65. And also truck turns off at red lights when coming to stop or at light. Dashboard says check gauge (recently installed flowmaster a on truck not sure if that has anything to do with it)
Can you help me out? I got a 97 expedition xlt 5.4 2v 4x4. Damn thing caught on fire on my way back hoke from a desert trip. Anyways, my question is what is the wire harness located behind the primary fuse box. These wires where what caught on fire because the harness was sitting on top of the cat. Trying to find out what that harness is and how its connected. Cant find any info online or in the haynes book. Appreciate any help with this. Enjoy your channel very much
I've got a related question: have you ever used the felpro gaskets for the plastic tensioners? I used them when I did my timing set a few months, just wondering if it was the right move.
Never even knew they existed.
Just to get an understanding with the composite one i will risk the gasket getting blown out and maybe getting the rattling noises and loosing oil pressure on the phasers than with the cast iron one i maybe get a a wear on the chain from over tensioning? So ethier i loose a phaser or the chain? Can someone clarify this to me because im bout to start my timing job on my 5.4 3v .
Great advice as usual I have a 2008 Ford explorer with 166,000 with 4.6 3 valve any recommendation for timing components for that engine would be greatly appreciated
Ford Only
Was it an issue on the 2v? If not, why would it be in a 3v???
Love the channel Brian!
I've been slowly reassembling my 97 4.6 2v in my Crown Vic (literally in the car)
You've been extremely helpful covering these points.
I use a CLOYES timing set and just got done with that part. Trying to decide what to do with the timing cover...
As is, painted, or polished?
... And if painted, what color?
The timing cover needs no paint or polish unless you just wanna make it pretty... to which it'll then get dirty anyway as you use the car, so there's that.
Polished would be a *pain*, so I'd probably not.
Paint requires a good scrubbing to clean, scuffing with scotchbrite, two coats of etching primer, then three coats (dust, medium, medium) of whatever enamel color you are going to shoot it with.
To which the proper color is silver aka aluminum colored. :) But hey, if you wanna paint it puce or chartreuse or Mollypop, I ain't stoppin ya. :D
Rip that Cloyes kit out immediately, or you will regret it later.
Any recommendation on when to change the timing set on a 4.6L 3 valve?
I'm going to use the iron ones, because I already bought them and it's too late to send them back. Maybe they eventually wear out the chain but the timing components have proven to last longer on the 2 valves than on the 3 valves. And the Ecoboost is not a direct comparison as it has a single timing chain that is much longer than either of the two used in the modular motors.
I seem to recall in a past video that you recommended the metal tensioners. Has that been taken down now?
At any rate, if down the road I find that using the oil pressure driven tensioner was a better idea, I'll use MMR's tensioner rather than Ford's. It's got a metal body and a much larger O-ring seal.
The ones I bought too I couldn’t return also !
So I used them. But the ones I got were from a 5.4 quad cam mustang . Talked to ford a technical engineer..
Before I purchased . He said to use it.. will work in my 3v
Not sure if it’s the same as the 2v. But prob is..
What I've heard is those plastic chain guides are the worst part of the timing set on the triton engines which would be the only upgrade I'd recommend.
The plastic chain guides are never a problem unless there is a prolonged abnormal startup rattle that beats them to pieces.
One quick slightly off topic question, when removing the cam for timing, after removing the three followers per side and setting the cam to the neutral position- do all the followers have to be removed manually or at that point can the cam caps be loosened and cam removed?
After removing the 3 followers per side then turning the crankshaft to the neutral 6 o clock position you are free to remove the entire timing set and camshafts.
@@FordTechMakuloco thank you so much!
Can I get away with doing a partial timing job such as the tensioners and guides? Or do I have no choice but to do the pump guide tensioners and vvt solenoids?
I have a 2001, 5.4L, 2V almost 300k, same chain and tensioner as when it was built as far as I know. I think about doing the timing chain now and then. But I usually decide to see if I can squeeze another 100k out of it. Original trans, 4wd, and the drivers seat is not all ripped up.
👆Thanks for watching, love you so much fan!
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first I'd like to start off by saying thank you for all you do!!! you have helped me through countless issues with this 07 f150. But I do have something a little off topic. I was wondering if you had any videos on broken valve springs for the 5.4 3 valve. I guess my main quistion is could the broken spring be changed without removing the cylinder head any advice from you is worth its weight in gold.
👆Thanks for watching, love you so much fan!
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Will this apply to 5.4 2valve as well
My fear, and I assume the reason for the ratcheting mechanism, is startup chain slap before oil pressure has the tensioner fully tensioned. I'm doing a water pump/timing set on a 3.5 duratec right now and noticed the new tensioner is non ratcheting. This concerned me so I did some searching. Your video was one of the first results. Definitely gave me something to think about, but I still have my concerns. What are your thoughts on the startup slap?
Hey Brian, does this recommendation apply to the 4.6L 2V engines also?
There is evidence of the updated tensioner seals still blowing out so is the OEM updated replacement even worth it?
This doesn't clarify if a ground down metal tensioner is better than plastic. He said that's bad too but doesn't justify his answer.
I have a 98 f150 4.6l 2v and am doing a timing chain, should I get these instead?
I'm done everything you recommend, but in this case I going looking facer rn new lifter and metal tensioner
Have you ever had a 2002 ford Taurus that cranks but women start? Has good fuel pressure and spark. Back fired on me so I’m thinking something with timing. Think it might be the camshaft position sensor? Thanks for your help!
Hey Brian, I saw in your timing set replacement videos for the 3.5 ecoboost you were using the ratchet style - cast iron tensioner. Are these aluminum ones an update since then? Went to ford and they sold me the cast iron one recently for my 3.5. I'm assuming they're trying to clean up the old ones?
How much would you charge for a timing chain replacement and tensioners on 2010 Ford expedition 5.4 3 valve
Please submit an official service request here- bsgautomotive.com/
How does this relate to the early 2000's 4.6 W motors in the F-150s?
I hope you see this message and reply because it's something I've been wondering about for a while now. Last year I did my timing upgrade on my 07 F150 with help from your video series. I did the high volume oil pump and pickup and I usually do my own oil changes but I was pressed for time once before a vacation and has grease monkey do it. When I changed the oil the next time I noticed the filter was significantly smaller than the one required. This got me thinking after the high volume upgrade do you want a filter that can handle more volume as well or will the standard Motorcraft for that engine be enough?
The standard F-820S is just fine but those smaller service champ filters can plug.
What is the part number for plastic ford one or is it after market?
if I recall correctly the metal cast iron tensioners have an oil squirter on them that helps cool and lube the chain...
They all do not just the cast units.
Why not mellings? Or are oe's better?
Thanks 👍
I used the wonder racing tensioner spacer and grinded off the first 4teeth , but thats on a race engine 4.6 4v using 2step
👆Thanks for watching, love you so much fan!
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If I only need to replace the chain tensioners which specific ones would you recomend?
what about intech 4v 5.4 engine? should I use plastic chain tensioner too ? ive got 2003 navigator and its time to replace chain and all stuff since it has some chain noise at cold start up.
👍 from France