The Hidden Motives Behind Female Friendships - Dr Tania Reynolds
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- Tania Reynolds is an Assistant Professor in Psychology at the University of New Mexico whose research focuses on women's intrasexual competition, biases in moral evaluations and social and sexual selection.
Ancestrally, men needed to go to war and hunt. Given this, it would be rather useful to be friends with the spear-wielding bloke next to you so that you know he's got your back. Women's use case for friends is much more subtle and difficult to determine however, and today we try to decipher the underpinnings of female friendships.
Expect to learn why women dislike working underneath a female boss, the painful social existence that very attractive women have to endure, why both men and women bias seeing women as victims and men as perpetrators, why women develop opposite-sex friendships, the most common ways women derogate their rivals, why sexual gossip is a ruthless precision engineered tool and much more...
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#evolutionarypsychology #female #competition
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00:00 Intro
00:26 Why Women Don’t Like Female Bosses
09:06 Are Female Friendships More Vicious?
19:04 How People Respond to Male Suffering
28:22 What Women Get From Friendships
32:02 Why Women Develop Opposite-Sex Friendships
45:18 The Useful Weapon of Gossip
55:50 Tania’s Research into Slut-Shaming
1:02:09 The ‘Bless Her Heart’ Effect
1:08:00 How Female Competition Impacts Self-Image & Diet
1:13:22 What is Driving the Increasing Sexualisation of Society?
1:16:40 Where to Find Dr Reynolds
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Hello you beauties. Access all episodes 10 hours earlier than CZcams by Subscribing on Spotify - spoti.fi/2LSimPn. Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:26 Why Women Don’t Like Female Bosses
09:06 Are Female Friendships More Vicious?
19:04 How People Respond to Male Suffering
28:22 What Women Get From Friendships
32:02 Why Women Develop Opposite-Sex Friendships
45:18 The Useful Weapon of Gossip
55:50 Tania’s Research into Slut-Shaming
1:02:09 The ‘Bless Her Heart’ Effect
1:08:00 How Female Competition Impacts Self-Image & Diet
1:13:22 What is Driving the Increasing Sexualisation of Society?
1:16:40 Where to Find Dr Reynolds
Great discussion. But, I think you missed one salient issue. ... Please consider a discussion considering traditional gender roles and culture as an adaptation of society to compensate for the perverse incentives inherent within a purely individualistic view. Individual strategies can destroy a society if too many women employ them.
Example - "Monkey branching" appears to be excellent as an individual strategy, but any examination reveals that it cannot work if most women do this. Only a foolish man would dare to make a commitment.
Example - Ditto for gossip, back-up mates, etc...
Bring more evolutionary psychologysts please!
@11.23 great answer for kind! Great quick thinking!...
at my current job we have to really hot interns what I've noticed is that competing to get somebody's attention
lol, where is the title timestamp?
I’m just stunned that today’s education system can produce a PhD who seems to actually care about real problems, is doing real research, and can quickly mobilize research to support an argument. How did she survive the process? And Chris does a fantastic job of interviewing her. He also readily mobilizes the views of people he’s interviewed.
There are PhD’s in litterally every field you can think of. I love them all
Ridiculous comment. Total hyperbole. Ffs. Countless PhD’s that care about real problems, doing real research.
@@benyashers5753 Love your hyperbolic rhetoric in describing hyperbole! “Ridiculous” “Total” “Countless” Here’s the issue. This was my observation having been in this business for a long time. I made a simple observation based on what I’ve observed over 30 years in higher education and having earned a PhD from a quality institution and teaching in same. Things have degraded significantly in the social and behavioral sciences, my good friend. Standards, requirements, pursuit of what I would call “real research,” rampant plagiarism, student activism run amok with administration acquiescence, and I could go on. It is, in my experience, quite serious and I am not sure how she navigated the maze given her research interests and observations which run counter to university theologies. You just did the classic YT tactic which is immediate ad hominem attack with not a whiff of support, explanation, or (even more classic) references to the video in question. So, thanks for trying to start yet another race to the bottom of the brain stem. If you have a different experience, let us know, politely. You can do it! Throwing feces is so, well, boring and ends up all over the thrower which is gross. ☮️
She seems very smart and nice but isn't everything she saying just strikingly obvious? She's just stating what we all already know. Do we even need psychologists if we have grandmothers or some other similar source of life advice?
@@carolyna.869 believe it or not many people don’t know and some may have a sense but are afraid to voice it out
I've NEVER been part of or around a female group whether it be at work, school, gyms, etc that didn't partake in gossip to one degree or another. And I've always hated this about other women. There was even an instance at an old job of mine where I walked out of a bar because the two girls I was with could do nothing other than talk smack about someone who earlier that day they were practically bff's with. The amount of women who will happily engage with someone in a positive manner to then speak negatively of them when they aren't present is fucking disgusting frankly. It is one thing to tolerate someone you don't like so as to not make waves at work, school, etc. It is another thing entirely to pretend as though you genuinely like this person then undermine that with criticism behind their back. This is toxic femininity and women need to do better.
Amen!
@@kc6810 you need to get out from under your rock and smell the roses. you're coming at everyone and pretending you're on your white horse above everyone when you know perfectly well that all of this is going on. Don't bother responding i don't get replies.
Ive seen "men" do it too
I remember that scene from The Office episode where they interviewed those individuals to become the Regional Manager of Dunder Mifflin, and Phyllis said that she didn't want the new manager to be female because she worried they would be less competent. It's funny cause she's a woman saying that...
yeah I agree I don't like women talking bad like that, it's so common with women and so uncommon with men, I even have a female friend who prefers male friends because of this reason. on the flip side, women don't need to worry about physical escalation I wander if that plays a part? as men if we engaged int his type of activity with other men, it would not be long before a physical confrontation or multiple physical confrontations occur, maybe this is why we don't do it? as men we respect each other and know for us, as men, the end result is a physical fight, in the past not just a physical fight, it would have been to the death.
As a woman (I’m not a biologist) 100% agree. Men are so much easier to get along with. Hate working with women, a lot of them don’t know how to be on a team. Jealous, cut throat, mean all with a smile
Jen and Emma I have had the same experience
🙌🏻✨✨✨✨✨ working women only like in a group - Absolutely terrible, detestable and stressful.
I mentioned that to my husband yesterday. It's really sad that women hate each other.
My partner is from Turkey, living in the US. She tells me the exact same thing with nearly the same words. She says in Europe, her female friends are not like this. I think part of the escalation can be due to social/economic pressures?
@@barefootarts737exactly. I have been to Turkey 2 weeks ago and the women there didn't seem that...vicious?😅 I also think it's more of a corporate Western company thing
I’ve opted out of the “redpill/manosphere” for a healthier perspective, but while I was ruminating on our modern culture and realizing how I was (Actually) being treated… I ditched most of my social media and cut off all my female friends (rather, just stopped contacting them) None of them have contacted me since. This video parallels how most women treat men in their lives; which is why the only woman I’ll consider letting into my life going forward, will be my potential future wife.
You are fucking right mate, don't settle for less.
Keep in mind, the manosphere isn't one sphere; it's a vast open field with a lot of different subgroups with their own sets of values and morals. I tend to prefer the MRAs and the older m-g-t-o-w men. They seem to have the strongest morals and the fairest perspectives.
@@filthycasual9381 that’s honestly what it is, and unfortunately most of it has become grifters, narcissists, or just bitter men who happened to catch an audience. Finding those Older men with wisdom, or the men have a passion for helping others more than themselves is the difficult part these days… but they do exist. When it comes down to it too… some book or “alpha” strategy course isn’t going to get you a woman in the long term, it’s something you gotta experience yourself and get burned doing. Or don’t 🤷🏻
@@filthycasual9381 Exactly. It's just men in many different spaces getting together, albeit reaching common, inevitable conclusions, and proposing different solutions. This doesn't stop the countless attempts to demonize the so-called "sphere" as churning out extremists or something of that nature.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I'm currently in an accounting class with only women(apart from me the guy). Before we were like only 5 people left in the class with one girl being particularly intelligent among us. Suddenly another girl hopped onto our course, who's better than the first girl. As a result of that, the other girls are now flocking to her instead of the first girl, leaving the first girl feeling excluded. Female dynamics can be really vicious.
Refreshing to see an observant emotionally intelligent man!
Adding to the point about sexual harassment policies in workplaces. I saw the writing on the wall in 2014 when I got my first job, and decided that I would keep video and audio recordings at my desk 100% of the time at work.
This practice saved my life. A female superior propositioned me and I rejected her with the most gentleness possible. She then attempted to extort me, and the video and audio turned that around on her. I refuse to live in a jurisdiction with a two party consent recording law, because it would make me completely unwilling to work with women in a company with HR,
As a woman I had the same situation with some men. My business was taken away and given to someone else. People stink. It did motivate me to open my own business till Government made a small business impossible without a bunch of lawyers to pay. Sorry it happened to you. Unfortunately in this time male’s are more at risk
I'm skeptical. I mean, really, someone would record everything at work? C'mon.
@@kirk2767 yeah this never happened
@@kirk2767 well, dashcam capable of loop free recording. Just find a camera, set settings to acceptsble and get full or even two weeks of recording.
@@Mishkafofer I needed this info. Thanks.
Boxers Tommy Hearns and Marvin Hagler were interviewed the morning after their fight. The woman interviewing them was surprised to see them on good terms.
When she asked them about it, Hagler replied, “Why not? We just made a million dollars together."
Goes way beyond money. For men, fighting is social. Guys fight and become friends afterward if the fight was fair and nobody acted weak. Men appreciate that another man throws down physically and after the fight will often bury the hatchet. In certain very macho cultures this is very evident. The Irish, Scottish, etc. Even some dads and sons fight regularly and always come away super tight. Often fighting is part of male bonding. In my experience, women tend to hold grudges rather than bury the hatchet.
@@tommyrq180 you're right, I've noticed that same dynamic among men throughout my whole life. I wasn't taught so much the differences in nature between men and women though, it seems to me like women are more thoroughly negative. They are electrons.
@@tommyrq180 You're seriously overstating things. Or at least leaving out major exceptions. Like my friend's dad and stepdad fistfighting at his youth football game. There was nothing to appreciate about that. It threw his family into turmoil.
@@joshscott6914 People tend to leave out major exceptions when talking about generalities since it goes without saying that outliers exist.
@@ryebr3ad With all the abuse I saw is this an outlier?
My experience with female bosses has been pretty nightmarish :/ I was looking for mentorship, guidance to be part of a team in these jobs and each time it turned into this territorial psychological warfare LOL. From what I've lived through so far, It's been difficult to be a younger woman trying to work with or for especially older women, as they tend to see you as competition, or intruding on their goals, even though the dynamic is supposed to be that of a team. I've also had a ton of jealous remarks made to me from older female bosses, often using my age against me to diminish ideas I had 😬 , and even having a boss confront me about how too many male clients or customers give me attention (I adhered to a dress code), and that this was an issue. I also noticed direct communication is not utilized amongst a lot of women in leadership positions, as they often use passive aggression to get their point across. I work with women now and they've all been great, but it's been pretty hard to ignore that in my experience, being a woman working for a woman can be much more difficult than working for a man.
I often hear that for women female bosses are a problem, thankfully as a man I usually have the same quality of experience with male and female bosses, it's probably because women don't see men as competition as much, maybe.
@@-haclong2366 they unfortunately can be :/. I think your theory is correct for the most part! I'm not sure why many women in leadership positions struggle with what seems like a lot of insecurity.
I quit my last job because of drama with the women in management. Men work better without women around. Some women are fine but I think the sexual tension that can arise really causes issues.
Marie Claire Magazine "The Mean Girls of ER"
To be fair, it’s inherently always going to be a man dominance hierarchy thry they work in unless in a female dominated profession like nursing, but hell, men even make more when 90% of people are women. Lesbians make more than cia woman. Life is odd like that
This gal is incredible. Not idealogical - just science. So refreshing in a world of moral lecturing/posturing.
talk is cheap
@Anvita444 You sound faithless.
@@Anvita444 Talk informs culture, culture informs legislation. Only an idiot would discount the power of words
@Dr_Bille crazy that you're a "doctor/doctorate" when you can't understand that words mean NOTHING when their actions are different.
@@that6.7guy30 I do understand that, and that is not what were talking about here. Dr Richards here isn't just talking, she's doing actual research. Now sit down and be quiet
I've always found having long-term close friendships with other women (at least in groups) to be difficult. Listening to this has helped articulate many things I knew to be possible reasons why. My lack of willingness to be vulnerable with other women, not being *overly* nice or self-effacing, avoidance of gossiping and gossipers, more directness ... I apparently didn't learn the rules growing up, lol. One-to-one friendships have always been easier for me. Some women can be pretty catty and manipulative, especially in groups.
I’m in a similar place. I don’t mind it though. I prefer the uplifting more direct communication of non traditional females. We don’t live in tribes anymore why subject ourselves to such silliness if it’s not necessary.
@@tourist1313 Very true and I agree, it's just silliness. I'm actually much happier with the few close, one-to-one friendships I have rather than trying to fit myself into a group.
My wife has a lived experience much like what you describe. She doesn't play the gossip game, refuses to compare and contrast, and is fairly direct. She basically gets excluded from large female friend groups, and does much better in one-on-one friendships with other like-minded women. We've both discussed how she's somewhat masculine in her communication styles. This isn't a bad thing! I certainly appreciate not having to play the guessing game, and frankly I get held to a higher standard by her direct communication style. But I still way prefer it! So take heart, there are plenty of women out there like you've described.
Poor tomboys.
@@JohnSmith-wx9wj Haha. I've never really *looked* like a tomboy but I guess I act like one - which probably just further confuses other women
Some few years ago I was a jobless male and most of my male companions were constantly verbally abusing me for not having a job and now that I've a stable job they seem to respect me more. This is how male companionship is.
With women, the more stable and self assured you are, the more reason to tear you down.
It seems rough, but imagine if they’d ignored you or coddled you. That social pressure and then relief is necessary to essentially communicate “cmon bro, get your shit together”
That being said, to my jobless but seeking bros, keep going, it’s harsh out there, good luck 👍
@@Werewolf.with.Internet.Access lol how's that. seems pretty demoralizing to me
11:30 Whoa, this part opened my eyes... So she's saying that, in order for an adolescent girl to be accepted by other girls in her peer group, she needs to make herself extraordinarily nice or else she risks being branded as a leper. This explains why phony sweetness is a second nature to some (not all) women, and why a lot of introverted girls report school life to be hell.
So true about gossip not affecting men as much. It actually feels like gossip enhances a man’s reputation because people are talking about him which puts eyes on him, and because the ways in which a man “proves their worth” are more easily displayed they can quickly convert negative attention into positive attention by displaying competence or bravery.
interesting theory
Gossip can add to your street cred as a bad boy.
Depends on the gossip. I had this situation at an old job where I had a silly falling out with a female coworker that I was casual friends with and after that she did everything she could to make everyone that worked there hate me. Now it didn't do a lot to people that worked directly with me because they knew she was blowing smoke but it had a significant impact on my relationships with employees that I didn't really interact with(and she did) and new employees. I remember one particular instance where this new guy started and on his first day he walks up to me and shakes my hand and is like "I'm new here. Nice to meet you.". Just a normal, friendly interaction. And then I don't see him again for like a week and the next time I see him he's mean mugging me from across the room. Again, we hadn't seen each other at all since that first meeting so there was zero reason for him to have beef. Except unless somebody talked to him and convinced him I was some sort of scumbag. She did stuff like that a lot. It didn't stress me out or anything but it was not ideal.
That’s why reputation is a illusion
Perceived presence brings the light in outers eyes
Just look at Chris my brows
Women at the workplace get away with absolutely everything. Bad performance, gossiping, being rude or moody, showing up late, making bad decisions, everything. I have seen a lot of women not fit for their jobs, but I've never seen a boss who would fire them over it. If that wasn't biased enough, now we also have on top of that HR departments that are basically allowing any woman to just get rid of guys they don't like. This needs to end right now!
This is because women are, and always have been of higher social status than men. Forget white male privilige. Women, especially pretty women, have the privilege. "When women are given equal rights to men, they are automatically made superior to men" -Socrates
I have seen this often while I worked as an engineer. Even though I'm physically disabled I was given physical task and was often given a task they could finish to do on top of my normal workload. When I brought up the unfairness of this was told shut up or be fired. One job I even had to drive a female coworker to work because she was able to drive and was still expected to be on time. It added 30 min to my drive time and that was when she was already awake when I showed up at her place. Later, she started sleeping in, so I had to arrive early to dock on door to wake her up and then stand there for 30 min for her to get ready.
Woman have more to gain as a group, if they disperse resources among themselves in a matriarchy, that's why they seek equality because it would benefit them later on when they're older while still being part of the group, while they keep men on a low level, making them gather resources and making them work for it, also by taxating men they could increase their money flow.
Women also get away with sexual harassment. Remember, leading people on through "choosing signals" and "hints" while not being interested or just doing it out of getting a kick out of manipulating men is a form of sexual harassment. Unfortunately, this form of sexual harassment is acceptable.
I work in a corporate setting and you are 100 percent correct. What women get away with in the workplace is absolutely astounding. The one that's the most shocking is how they are often late, any how many sick days they take. It's truly shocking.
The most insane part of my life was when I worked at the beginning of my carrier in a company with two female bosses that managed six young, straight out of college women. Also couple of us guys worked there.
It was constant drama, screaming, passive aggressions, gossiping, humiliations, virtue signaling, bragging, one-upmanship, competition but only between women, not us. It was wile and vicious.
I joked around that I don't watch TV anymore, all the drama and thriller I need is in my workplace.
...screaming?😂 where the heck did you work?
Meow 😸 cat fights lol
That is the norm when women are in the workplace…. It has always been the case and will always be the case… an adult childcare drama trauma experience
@@NoctLightCloudlook at the female attack style you just laid out for us.
Haha. Your the problem where all studying here😆.
Bless you heart🧛♀️
Yea women should not work exclusively with other women. They make life so difficult for each other. But the presence of males moderates women and vice versa
The football hierarchy analogy is spot on. That is why men enjoy the complexity of the sport. The organization is just as impressive to us as the physical prowess
yup. That's the reason I watch. I could care less about big stars or favorite teams. I like seeing formations and 2-minute strategy. Ofc other sports have just as much strategy, but football is slowed down to where we can appreciate these things without being pro players ourselves.
A super sprinter becomes a million times more interesting when a super-thrower puts a ball in his handa
As a strength coach, I'd say it's even more impressive than physical prowess. It's surprising just how much of a great result or performance can occur when people work together in harmony, especially after a long period of time dedicating and deciding to learn to how work with and around others. The results can be just amazing.
@@trequor absolutely
I’m a woman and 98% of my friends are female. All commited to self growth and uplift me in beautiful ways. I practise “don’t complain, condemn or gossip”. You attract what you omit.
They don't care about your experience because it is positive. They want reasons to demonize women.
@@MrSandman_0981
That’s a pretty reductive take to make on people you don’t know
Only 98% female friends but a 100% true statement. It's your responsibility to surround yourself with people like this
@@MrSandman_0981 taking one ☝️ person’s experience doesn’t out weigh the experiences of all others
Nice to see a wholesome story on here! I’ve known women like those talked about but I’ve also found lovely female friends later on. Glad you have too!
One of the most, if not the most, usable, easy-to-understand, info-dense episodes on evpsych ever.
What did you find usable for example?
She was excellent. Very pleasant and satisfying to listen too
Anything Peter Gray is pretty obviously usable for a parent, provided it's legal in your country.
Yep🎉
Fascinating! She validated all my experiences with friends. I hate being a woman there is so much backstabbing manipulation. I admire how men can be upfront about their issues with friends, they "duke it out" in a fist fight, then they move past the issue. Women are malicious and won't stop until they destroy their enemy's entire life through reputation destruction. At least that's what my "friends" did to me. I have no friends by choice. I have my man and my family and that's all I need. I prefer peace of mind over frienemies any day. (Cue that song "No New Friends")
Edit: I do wish I could find some great friends but I don't know if I can trust again.
@@OrwellsHousecat ❤🤗
As the requirements for reputation destruction decrease, even men are becoming backstabbing little bitches, mainly online.
@@caralho5237 True! Where have all the healthy masculine men gone?!
@@sarah9044 1. Something is interfering with endocrine health (probably pollutants and/or diet) resulting in dramatically lower testosterone. 2. The entire culture is now geared toward demoralizing men (especially white men).
Have you ever considered that you may be the problem?
Because I had experience that and I had to ask myself what am I doing to attract this type of friends because I know a lot of women that have very good long term friends
I think two guys can become very good mates and collaborators from male conflict. It has happened many times for me. I have been in conflict with another guy and we start to recognize each others worth. Then one extends an olive branch to the other and we become best mates and from there work together. I have tried to extend the olive branch to women in the work place and it has never worked. They may have taken it when it was advantage to them but never when I wanted it.
Women are quite ungrateful and ironically while competing they are not humble even if they try to prove it.
A tale as old as the written word: Gilgamesh versus Enkidu and how they become best bros. The ancients recognized the power of male friendship.
Same, I had best friends that we would get actually get into fist fights and a couple of hours later we would be going to each others houses and play video games or watch a movie
This is a brilliant video; it explains so much of modern western culture, especially workplace dynamics! A lot of this I feel like I’ve known instinctively, as a man, but to have it eloquently outlined is a game-changer.
Feel why this is causing a lot of people to be freelancers, entrepreneurs, contract workers etc… because of HR and if too many people in your workplace don’t share your social political opinions that it can feel like a nightmare waiting to happen.
It rang true for me also, as a woman. She said women prefer male bosses and sadly, that's very true. All the worst bosses I've had have been women. I love women. I don't think women are incapable of being leaders but the differences in hierarchy between men and women do make the power difference a strain for female bosses-female employee dynamics.
Funnily enough it's what the Manosphere has been saying for decades, but they got called misogynistic for that lol.
@@AnastasiaR because women in leadership think they have to be agressive and nasty to be respected... it's just not true. They just have to be competent, committed and respectful. Like all of us. Then they are respected. The problem is that many companies have this pro corporate feminist agenda, they push women forward to leadership positions regardless of them having an actual leader profile or not. So yes, when they aren't natural leaders they are unsure of themselves and get easily agressive and abusive. A competetent person, a natural leader usuallly takes the best decisions for the group and knows how to push different people and profiles up, usually they have the knowledge so they are naturally accepted and professionnally respected whether they are a woman or a man.
@@AnastasiaR my fave bosses were the females. They connected with me more. Don't see why I'd prefer a male lol
I've always observed that female friendship groups appear to be of similar objective 'attractiveness'. Super interesting to hear the theory on why this is with regard to sexual competition, and that to avoid negative responses by other females, self-deprocation is almost essential. What a bizarre situation whereby you'll spend all evening optimising your attractiveness (clothes, make-up, etc), but when someone is nice enough to say that you have succeeded in that goal, you must instantly pretend you haven't.
They typically are similiar in attractiveness if they have similiar self esteems. I’ve dated plenty of anorexics and I’ll never forget one of them was great freinds with all these obese women. Good people, just it struck me as kinda funny that her freinds oddly matched her own view of herself with what ever lingering effects of body dysmorphia where hanging around. I never dated them when they where active in it, but even when treated if you know what to look for you can pick up on this in the first 5 minutes of sitting down to eat. I say that as some girls are just skinny cuz of a high metabolism. But when you see them pick up the food it’s a dead giveaway. At same time I will say they are lovely people. and not all the same. Only issue I ran into was like 1/3rd of them have some sort of sexual problem. So watch out for one’s that have some phobia around having sex. I only stayed with that one for a bit because of how perfectly intellectually matched we where. To this day have yet to find that again.
This is true, I've been friends with girls way more attractive than myself or less attractive and there's always a divide because dating is different and someone is always uncomfortable or feels jealous.
Be sure to tell your wife or gf’s to stop it when you complement them.
I’m not a chick. Take in the compliment. I’m a man. You offend me if you negate it. Except the love and enjoy it.
But when back with your girls… remember to reject it again to stay safe honey.
30:30 Female-female non-kin friendships are about recruiting a “Coalitional partner in reputational warfare.” Wow. She goes on to explain how this works. I’m sure there’s more to it, but that one floored me. And, I might add, reputational warfare against both men and women.
No. That is not the majority of women. She is describing the "mean girl" and that is a toxic female. I went to a private high school and there were a group of these girls there. Yes, they spent all their time and energy gossiping and basically engaging in character assasination. Unfortunately I have a relative who married a mean girl and he is miserable. It's important to vet friends as well as romantic partners.
@@reginasemenenko148 thanks for the specification, Regina
Believe half of what you see, none of what you hear. It boggles my mind that gossip is such an effective manipulation tactic when it’s so easy to see how it functions.
Ikr!!!
Speaking from experience, men do the same.
I have amazing, vital female friendships. The women I find I can be close to are extremely honest, self-assured and of honourable character. I have found that the purpose of these friendships is to figure out how to better ourselves by helping to better each other through deep, open, transparent conversations. This mutual sharing takes place because we have forged sincere trust. Genuine, reciprocal, female friendships based on mutual respect are out there and they are precious, I hope all women get to experience that
Yes. 100%. I'm glad I have several women who have been friends for many years.
Very blessed and lucky with such relationships myself as well
Same.
Also women like to bullshit everyone like they’re living and loving on LinkedIn 😂😂😂😂.
@@WinstonSmithGPT haters like to hate.
Looking back at females I've worked with in the past holy shit this is spot on. Kinda gives me a sense of forgiveness because I understand why they behaved the way they did. Biology and human behavior is wild. I've been called a sexist for preferring to work with men but honestly it's much more simpler and takes less mental gymnastics.
Edit: I was young and oblivious to all the strategies happening around me, I can easily spot them now as I'm older.
Nah. Don't forgive. Remember they expect you to be on top of your base instincts and behaviors.
@@radiantveggies9348 From my experience held on anger or hatred does nothing but harm yourself. Let it go and just be yourself. Carve out the best possible live for yourself that you can. If that involves other people or not is irrelevant. You dont like the people you meet in your live. Okay you dont have to hang out with them or give them the time of day. We are all free Human Beings who can and at the end of the day will do what ever the fck we want. Like we always have and most likely will still be doing in the future. If you recognize it or not is up to you. Some people see it others don´t. But who cares. Live will happen the way it happens. And thats okay.
@@radiantveggies9348Forgiveness isn't ignoring it or excusing it. It's understanding why people do the awful things they do and preparing accordingly. I.e. avoiding the person or adjusting your relationship with them in some way.
I'm kind of average looking - not gorgeous but, not terrible and spent a lot of time in female dominated or female only spaces when I was younger. What I always thought was weird was the way my friends would completely change personalities when there were men present. If there was a guy who was interested in me which didn't happen very often, whatever friend I was hanging out with at the time would say something wildly inappropriate and attention getting to shut down the conversation. My favorite example - he had asked *me* what kind of music I like and my friend (who was engaged at the time and has been happily married to that guy for 25 years now) responded before I could get words out, " Oh, I have orgasms every time I listen to Eric Clapton". I know that this sort of cock-blocking is considered very bad form among guys and they will even call each other out on it. I don't think she was even consciously aware of what she was doing. She certainly never admitted it. Everyone else at the table was aware, though - including her fiance. It always came completely without warning because I rarely saw these people in a context with guys.
wtf that reaction is a certified bruh moment
why do you think that was?
@@MrClockw3rk I imagine they liked me because I was non threatening but if I got attention, that meant I was competition.
In that case you could’ve mocked the fiancé. “Oh was Mark in the room or were you alone like you usually are? Aww, poor Mark, we all know you try hard.” Now her partner is low status and she’s been humiliated.
@@WinstonSmithGPTthere would have been no point. Also we were all visiting another friend’s family at Thanksgiving in a different state and if I had gotten the knives out I might have been shy a ride home.
I remember once I had a female friend who said she cared if her non-romantic male friends found her attractive. At the time, I didn't get it. I truly didn't care what a girl thought about my attraction if I wasn't attracted to her. After this conversation, I think I finally understand why she felt that way.
Not through the episode yet, could you explain in your own words? I am curious!
Yea what do you mean?
Well, from their discussion, it sounds like most of these men were backups. And you’d probably want to be attractive to your backups. Just a hypothesis
Thanks! Makes sense now that I listened to the whole thing. Funny, this whole episode really makes you wonder when you look at your own social circles. I am with Chris - men have it easier.
@@sicCroveaN I'd argue that since men have to live with a woman in order to reproduce, it's much more difficult for men to have to deal with that. Its women who have it easy, living with their man who is easy to live with, cuz he's likely overt not covert, which is easier to predict and handle.
This chick has multiple guys lined up as back up and is looking for more, while my boi is just trying to be her friend. Way more likely that she we will be able to reproduce, which is super fulfilling.
I get that men make friends easier with the same sex, but they struggle with the opposite sex. Where as women don't find it easier to find same sex friends, however, they find it very easy to "befriend" men. I think I'd be happier in this world if getting along with the OPPOSITE sex was easy, as in, if the opposite sex acted overtly.
Friends are nice but mates are way more valuable. Theyre what give you a family. So it must be pretty nice to be able to easily get mates.
My sister has 0 female friends. Poor her, right? I have many friends as man. Seems like I'm doing well, right?
She's been with her man for 9 years, married for 5, she has two toddler boys and one in the oven. Who do you think lives a "happier" lifestyle? I'd kill to have family, I don't even have a gf. She wouldn't wanna be in my shoes for a fraction of a second.
Men knock each other down to build them up again to be stronger/better. Women build each other up so they can tear them down later.
The best way to fight reputation destruction and gossip is to walk away, and let the narrative tell itself. Without any input from you whatsoever.
Everyone will get bored with a story about someone who doesn't even acknowledge it, or is even around to participate.
Ignoring women is the #1 tool. Because receiving attention is a cornerstone of a woman knowing that she exists at all.
This is why a woman who launches accusations about you will always expect you to defend yourself. Any participation is a relationship.
This is true. I'm a woman and once I stopped paying other women any attention my life improves tenfold.
I feel the same about men. Ignoring them when they keep coming onto me after I’ve said no again and again. I’ve been sexually assaulted by men I’ve ignored…what about when you ignore gossiping women? Do they stalk and harass you too?
In addition, female boss issues for me were about higher levels of neuroticism and anxiety about perceived power. I think also females who want to take on more responsibility ie more stress have more aggressive temperaments and in turn more stress effects on their hormones.
Great discussion, thank you!
Power + Drive for power + Insecurity = Not that nice
I cannnot stress this enough. My boss is a female doctor, mother and CEO. Because of this, her neurotic levels are through the roof to the point where no one likes to work with her at all. Her fear creates anger and is like a grenade, always waiting to blow up at every corner.
From the greatest philosopher in the modern era we have no truer words ever spoken.
“Don’t try to understand women, women understand women and they hate each other”
Al Bundy
Can we get amen
I've had male bosses that would say pretty inappropriate things about my appearance, one was a little too fond of me, but it never affected my job. I'll take a couple creepy remarks over a female boss any day. They're absolutely awful especially if they're older and you aren't married or if you don't have kids they don't respect you or your personal time at all. It's almost like they think, well you don't have any kind of life outside of work so you can work more or stay late or XYZ. Not to mention any guy that helps you is "flirting" or whatever. The amount of paranoia and gossip is awful.
These have been my experiences as a woman too. As I’ve gotten older I find unattractive women that are put in lead positions tend to be quite vengeful. While my two best bosses where extremely attractive women. One of them was a lesbian who said it from the start of interviewing if we have issues or conflicts with one another to talk it out but to respect one another. We are all working for a reason and to not make someone’s right to a livelihood hell. She was a former military officer who went into tech and a Latina. She gave so much love and support and was like everyone’s mom and dad while also friend. When she retired it was heartbreaking. The other was a young woman my age who is also a Latina and did the same things except our team was also all Latinos and of the similar cultures (remember there’s a bunch of ethnicities/countries under one big umbrella). I think that’s what made the second job and work environment much easier since we were all of similar cultures and thus similar values and backgrounds. When I became older and more educated unfortunately I found myself feeling alien in the American society where their POV and values where very different. And also pettiness became more of a thing as my sort now became fetishized and thus now considered competition to the stablished hierarchy. My worst bosses were two blondes including one who tried to pour battery acid on me after she heard her fiancé hitting on me at work. I used to work at a biomedical lab. I sued and won but my self esteem went down the drain and anxiety went to shit from experiencing not just emotional and social alienation and gossip at work with insecure women but also physical force too. While I was being naive and not doing anything to protect myself because I thought these women had nothing to be insecure about, not because I was unconfident but because I respected them, thought highly of them and thought they were more than enough. While I thought they saw that I failed to see they were seeing red especially when their fiancé (who I went out of my way to avoid) would disrespect their relationship by trying to hit on me. A lot of women find it easier to take it out on the other woman than lose the economic and social convenience of landing a top of the line guy (or at least a 2/3rds guy, a guy who has looks and money but clearly lacking good character). It is what it is. For a long time I thought I was the bad guy until I called my former bosses and took to therapy as honestly it was bad.
@@AB-sm1qf Thank you for sharing your stories. Sorry that you went through that, comes to show psyche is at play all the time. I'm Latino so I'm glad you had good experiences with them ^^✌🏼...
@@AB-sm1qf interesting story but I've seen too many of the same 'flavor' if that makes sense
would need to hear the other 40% of it from the other side,
and ideally the last 20% as well from a third party witness
Sometimes I wonder if the reason why men treat women better, even in positions of power, is ultimately because of the slim chance of getting sex in return (and in a position of power and status this would be more likely anyway). I think studies would show that men in general treat women they are attracted to in a nicer manner (versus ones they aren’t attracted to), and even nicer than they would be to rival men.
Perhaps, women in positions of power are more callous to other women because they gain absolutely nothing in return by being nice. Women in similar positions of status and power may benefit by forming coalitions, but for a woman in a higher position of power, she might just view other women as potential rivals, especially attractive ones.
@@AB-sm1qf Damn that’s insane. Jealousy is a bitch.
Honestly, as much as I myself have enjoyed content like this ..the more you watch it… the more you are just reinforcing the dark side of humanity. We always have a choice which side will we focus on. What you focus on becomes your life. Just food for thought.
A spiritual perspective so to speak? Spirituality transcends wordly conditions in my opinion.
I also find it to be a limited view on humanity and nature. I don’t believe everything developed solely on the need to survive.
100%
The fact that when talking about male suffering and the empathy gap, Tania has to explain that getting empathy is bad for women too, is very telling. It is men dying in wars is bad for women all over again.
@@brianmeen2158 🤦♂
Chris’ smile at the start says: “Let’s ostensibly explore this subject objectively and sensibly, even though we’re both fully aware we are discussing what is basically ruthless amoral reasoning, narcissism, if not then just pure evil.”
I'm struck Chris, this is up there with some of the best podcasts I've ever listened to. Seriously brilliant discussion! 👏
Now that I'm no longer an adolescent, I hate having close female friendships - the ones that are so intense they are almost like a romantic relationship. I have sisters, cousins, and a mum so I'm not on the lookout for female friendships. What I hate most about female friendships is when friends engage in 'trauma dumping' where, unbeknownst to me and without my consent, they start treating me like a therapist for hours on end. I know how to stop it in its tracks nowadays but some women still try.
Really fascinating, I to struggle with female friendships, I did not learn the rules of engagement well as a young girl, and so just find the whole thing far too complicated, there is so much duplicitous behaviour, jealousy, competition & sneaky backstabbing going on, I just don't want to be part of any of it - as soon as I get a whiff of it I feel like it's almost contaminating me and challenging my personal values. Am I expected to give these up just to have a friendship? I'm literally giving up on finding committed, loyal, trusting, consistent, honest, authentic friendships.
The Information you both discussed so well i's bang on!
Only just discovered your channel you are a really excellent interviewer. 🌬️ 👍🏼
Tbh, just find the right women (or a woman, depending on how many friends you want). I get how you feel, my experience with girls and young women was also really negative when I was younger. I was the kind of a girl who always befriended dudes because she felt more safe with them - but as my social circle widened and I started meeting more people, well, turned out there's a lot of ladies out there who are cool and trustworthy and dependant, and who accept me for who I am. You should never give up your core values for a friendship or a relationship to work - otherwise what value would it even have?
It's easy to get lost in resentment when your experience is so negative, but how would that be any different from women who've had poor dating experience and now are going like "all men are jerks and here's S C I E N C E to prove it"? (and then they fail to meet the men they'd like to be with and get even MORE resentful, y'know - like, wow, men are not having fun with you when you automatically treat them as jerks, who would've thought xD) Just make sure to not approach them with the "holier than thou" attitude and all will be well. Wishing you best of luck. :)
@@aimee9478 You are spot on with this. As a man in his mid 40's, most of my life I have gotten along better with women than men (for much of the same reason, other 'regular' men treating me as competition or too aloof). Women on the other hand were always more accepting and friendly with me. It is much easier for me to make connections with women than men.
But the difference is, it's easy for me to make friendships with atypical women. Whereas it's difficult for me to make friendships with typical men. So I'm quite the outlier in perspective and experience as a man.
But with that, I have the same perspective you do. Because all I see are men doing the same thing women do. They pout the "all women" line just like women do the "all men" line. These types of men are just as petty and with the same amount of tunnel vision. Men like this that I come to know I try to explain this to them and also give them hope. Because I know where and how to find the good women out there. I can't stand overly feminine women because they largely have a lot of those stereotypical negative traits. I also do the same with all of my close women friends - I tell them that they too suffer from tunnel vision, chasing the same kind of guy. And that if their relationships constantly fail it's not the man's fault, it's THEIR fault for choosing the same type of dude over and over again. This is the same for men who always find "crappy women" over and over again. They're falling for the same traits, usually getting stuck on looks - oops! Most people in general try to blame the world or someone else for their shortcomings. Because largely, they lack the insight to question "What am I doing that's causing this? What can I do differently?"
I have a thing for tomboys. Tomboys who can be very attractive and very feminine when they choose to. This is because I find them to be rather balanced on the male/female traits. They're easy to talk to, they don't freak out emotionally as much, they're willing to just "Netflix and chill" or go out for a beer or do things like camping and other things that get dirt under your fingernails. But they are always still "a lady".
I also grew up as a misfit (see not getting along with most dudes but with most women). So my social circles with very much with other misfits, of which there are a lot more of them out there and they can easily socially network. That means we have our own places to hang out and meet up and our own events. Much of it is in what's now considered "nerd culture" except these are people who actually live it and don't use the label to seem like they're cool. In my circles of misfits, I find many more people like myself, both men and women. Of which I get along with THESE men quite easily as well as the women.
Went on a lot of tangents here. But the point is, people need to question what they're attracted to. Take the example of all these women getting into bad relationships - what are they drawn to? Jerks. And that's because these jerks exude a lot of positive traits they like such as making decisions, taking the lead, having an air of masculinity etc. Except they have all of the man-child issues along with them.
Men do the same thing too. They focus on the physical aspects mostly, get drawn to super girly types, all while ignoring the multitude of red flags. Because let's face it, guys are always desperate for sex. When you're desperate for something, you sacrifice your standards. This is why a lot of men who used to hang out in "red-pill" forums got tired of all the crap in there (literally the red-pill groups just as whiny and pathetic as the 'all men' women out there). These men who cast that crap aside now pursue more stoicism and responsibility and the willingness to ACTUALLY go their own way. But not through complaining, rather by working on themselves. Nothing good comes from being desperate for something that comes along in a usually disgusting package (sex from horrible women). Same goes for women pursing manly men from the swathes of manlings out there.
Most men don't know how to find good women and most women don't know how to find good men. And until they take some ownership that they are part of that problem equation, their situations will never change. Men need to stop having a chip on their shoulder and treat individual women as they meet just as that - an individual. And women need to...well, not do all the stupid crap that are exhibited on this channel :) As someone who used to have that chip on their shoulder and who dated psychotic women (literally stalkers some of them), I've gone through the whole gammut. And the only way I survived and started dating successfully with amazing women was to look at myself and stop blaming women and saying they should do this or that or "why don't they...". Taking ownership and responsibility is one of the scariest things for people but it's also the most empowering. Something which I believe, women are more at fault nowadays for NOT doing. But men do it just as much for it to be detrimental to themselves and the dating game as a whole.
If your life sucks, dating life sucks, etc. stop being normal. Normal is boring, normal blinds us from what other opportunities are out there and normal guarantees you'll just repeat the same mistakes over and over again. Live a little and push outside of your comfort zone and try different things and try connecting with different people. And by God, give people a chance, each as an individual!
True of male to male adult friendships too
Become friends with women in difficult careers. They're more used to proving value through character and work ethic. Women in easy fields like teaching nursing just coast by on being catty and dramatic.
Safe that for your man. He’ll love it and you’ll gain a true friend.
Face it. Most your sisters are a illusion. It’s fun to laugh with them… likely healing for you…. But means little to nothing so take it light with the girls and love your man.
Stop digging your nature. It sucks I’ve done that for years.
I LOVE how excited she is talking about this and loved listening to this! This show helped clarify a lot of things I’ve experienced in my life, so I appreciate this so much!
Wow! A woman who's actually honest about male-female friendships.
No, she is talking about "beta male orbiters". Nice guys, boys who don't have balls to go for what they want. And women with low self-esteem will keep them.
Real friendships are there. Watch Seth Meyers-Amy Poehler for example. Especially if it's someone you go way back that you can even call her as a sister.
But since losers, beta males like you don't have balls to go walk away when you are rejected. You stick around as a friend then say friendship can't happen.
It does happen, just not to losers like you.
There is not such a thing as a male-female friendship.
@@MrSandman_0981 There is, just incls like you don't know it because you are a beta male orbiter who sticks around like a female and you dont have balls to go for what you want and stand your ground.
Or become a decent human being and have females around you who are like sister to you after 20 years.
Speaking as a man who grey up without his father who is married to a woman who grew up without a father, utilizing a sperm donation to invoke single motherhood is an incredibly selfish act. Your desire to have a kid coupled with the inability to secure a partner does not outweigh the child's right to have both of their parents in their lives.
It disgusts me.
Well said!
Without that selfish act your wife would never have been born and you’d never of been able to spend your life with her. Life should be celebrated
@@vd2781 Selfish single mother spoke up 😂
@@aks1993kumar I’m not a single mother. I just value life
As someone who’s best friend was born from a sperm donor and single mom this really depends on the parent. My friend grew up extremely wealthy with an extremely loving, attentive mom and she had lots of uncles, her grandfather and gay “chosen family” uncles that also provided her with masculine influence at home. She’s happily married to a man now but she lacked nothing and grew up to be extremely kind and happy. Her mom was a scholar and asexual, she really didn’t want to be in a partnership but she wanted to love a child. A few years later she also adopted three children from the foster system and also gave them a great life and they’re all happy now. I’d say money does make a massive difference and also having lots of people as humans are social creatures. Unfortunately with the parenting what makes the difference is the time and money as well as ensuring the kids get socializing so they learn humanity. But in a relationship unfortunately women are often beat and have their work cut out for them with guys often being dead weight unless they care to share the mental load, help you keep a home etc. a lot of women are exhausted and why it’s common for a lot of women who divorced in their 30s-50s to never want to be in relationships again because having a guy for dick is often more convenient than one who you gotta take care of and take often “raise”. Guys have more to lose from women going this route than women especially men who have neither looks or money as they’re going to get overlooked and not get families and socializing from them.
I've had one female boss who was the best boss I've ver had. I left that job for better pay which eventually ended up taking a toll on me. My female friends I've had were my neighbours and I felt like I could be vulnerable with them and I won't be judged, talking to them was like free therapy for me. In both school and intership I have come across gossipy women. I didn't like their company and I wouldn't hang out with them, but it was my male friends who would kiss the boss's ass and who have cheated me to bag opportunities. Like this guy who sat right next to me at work, whom I grew close to over a span of 3 months told me he'll let me in on some freelance projects, I let him in on my deals and he earned some side money, he never introduced me to a single project and tried to eat up my contacts as well while telling everyone that my deals were a useless waste of his time and he didn't earn much from it which was a total lie. So my experiences are completely different, I think there are some people who are vicious and people who aren't.
Exceptions don't disprove the rule.
@@thesugardaddy7037It's not exceptions. People in general can be nasty. You're probably one of them. That's the rule.
@@aisnow5788 Go be an idiot somewhere else NPC. Reality might offend your delicate sensibilities if you stick around.
My boss is a woman, but she’s also an engineer, so it’s very easy to keep our discourse technical and work related. There are many women who are purely professional in the workplace, but I know shit can get catty real fast in the sales department which is 75% women. HR basically lives in there. Lol
this was illuminating, i grew up with 2 sisters, always had a tight group of female friendships, more aunts than uncles, close friendships with female cousins, I genuinely enjoyed the way she explained her findings and how it helped me better understand all the dynamics with all the female protagonists in my life story that shaped it, I count myself as incredibly lucky to have been nurtured by such wonderful female relationships, her insight is very practical and enlightening!! thank you for bringing her on the podcast, I subscribed after watching this episode!
Realistically those women don't find you a threat or as attractive so they're nice to you
@music lover you might be right, honestly I do think I'm the least attractive female in my family, and we do all happen to have very agreeable personalities
@@S.E.01your family likely has allot of safety in it and that’s more rare and to be very treasured.
Most chicks don’t live like you and I think your attracting good vibes by core childhood shaping.
You may also be a touch non aware of negative jabs and that’s a good thing.
Carry on 🫶
@@tokyodoru Yes because every woman is a demonic creature and that's the only reason
“If women ran the world we wouldn't have wars, just intense negotiations every 28 days.”- Robin Williams
No we'd have more wars. They'd never let go of any disputes.
And they don't sympathize with the men they send to die.
Nothing would ever get done if women ran the world, and there would probably be even more wars.
We would have wars.
@@thirdeyeopen2606 nothing would get done AND there would still be wars🤣
@AmeliaBodilia - there is research called "Queens" by Dube and Harish [2015] that shows that female heads of State from 1400 to 1900 waged MORE wars, and more bloody wars, than male heads of State. The researchers corrected for each female leader if she had a male consort, in case she was acting on his behalf, and they found that the opposite was true. Without a man by her side, she was even more ruthless.
My brother and brother-in-law both had tyrannical female bosses. They were more than happy to quit their jobs and work with a male boss. My wife says she prefers working with men in charge rather than women b/c the men tend to cut to the chase quicker and get the job done rather than a female who tend to take a vote and talk about the their feelings.
Sounds just like that survivor show with the man island and the woman island. The women turned to democracy and men turned to hierarchy. The men survived much better because hierarchy works better in times of crisis.
Both female bosses I’ve had have been straight to the point and honest as hell. They were both in their 60s though.
@@cosmo588 Not saying “ALL” men but of course, there are outliers that are in the minority. People tend to work better in places that show their strengths.
The only people I’ve ever heard say they liked a female boss have been gossip girls. Aka the type that would play well into what was talked about here.
I had a female boss and she was the coldest person I've ever seen, never spoke about her feelings only business. Why the fuck do you guys generalize
This is an exceptionally brilliant interview. Tania Reynolds knows her material with great depth and deals with an explosive subject honestly and without bias. Chris Williamson is also extremely well-informed and asks apposite and penetrating questions. Bravo to both of them!
I mean it makes complete sense.
Even if you aren't attracted to each other you do seek out what you dream of.
Back up mates makes sense in an evolutionary way considering our fragile humanity
It's just nice to have attractive people around.
No it doesn't make sense, because Human evolution does not exist. You are mistaken for believing in Human Evolution.
Female friendships are exhausting.
I’m a hairstylist of over two decades and this Dr 👩🏻⚕️ is 💯 correct!! I despise working for a lady boss and lady co workers. It’s the worst .
You're a real hero, because I could never. Stay strong 💪🏽💜
Sounds like a cut throat experience with a side of walking barefoot on sharp glass.
Wow this is one of the best podcasts I’ve ever listened to. So incredible to learn about that ancestral history of women dynamics and social relationships, it’s brought to light many challenges I’ve had with women friends and colleagues over the course of my life. Hope to hear more on this topic!
@@justanothernick3984 there are though, many more men and women that are unconscious to their ancestral intutions and their egos control over them. Many fewer are really conscious, and even among them, there are vastly varying levels of practice that offset it. The baseline unexplored evolutionary behaviour is norm
@@justanothernick3984 I disagree, you just can't get around your evolutionary background as easily as changing the environmental pressures, it is still beneath a lot of behaviour. It's in the way men and women interact socially, as described. Just because the environment has rapidly evolved doesn't mean the human mind has, which is why writings by Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius, St Augustine etc.. are still useful and relevant today.
@@justanothernick3984 humans are extremely adaptable. No argument there. But that adaptability is itself an evolutionary consequence, and that has consequences itself deeper than culture.
For example our adaptability is largely due to our extraordinary brains, those brains make childrearing very costly, and so the evolved behaviour around mating is what it is. We prefer monogamy and chastity etc... With the female nurturing and male providing over a long period of time, and a larger social culture builds up to protect and enforce those behaviours because they are best for the group.
So psychologically we have adapted to feel less anxious, release more or less of certain hormones such as oxytocin, when we are in close monogamous relationships, more cortisol when our partners are spending time with other viable mates of the opposite sex, less testosterone when we are around children.
So people feel impulses and intuitions when they do things in/out of line with our psychological evolution. You can work against this, but it has to be conscious work.
@@justanothernick3984 Evo psych explains population collapse along similar lines to the mouse utopia collapse. Behavioural sink.
Evo psych and any serious discipline has to discover and work by principle values in order to both justify and understand anything they do. Same as math or physics. But it's not a moral value if that's what you mean, I could maybe contest that but it would be difficult. The highest values for all life is survival and recreation. And I just flat disagree with you that the behaviour around that goal for each species is not an evolved behaviour. It is supported by neurochemistry so that can't be anything aside from an evolved consequence of selection for specific behaviour.
The ought-is question isn't settled, that goes straight to the heart of the philosophical and theological problem we are dealing with. We are not Neiztchian Ubermensch, but we are not Ape or wolf or like any other social animal. Morality comes with consciousness, and morality is dependent on what you believe which informs your behavioural ethic. But that doesn't mean that working against evolved behavioural selection won't have psychological and societal consequences, and that is neither good or bad in and of itself, but it is change and the change is likely wrong, because we do not have a better system for objective right and wrong regards survival as a goal.
More research needs to be done on female psychopathology. Females have pathologies and highly specific traits that they bring to bear on social interactions in the social sphere. Toxic femininity needs to be addressed.
It'd just be a recap of Cluster B personality disorders 😅
Tania! Thank you for your clear and concise explanations, open honesty, and breadth of knowledge! Chris, I am amazed that your are continuing to expand these timely and needed conversations WELL beyond the norm!
Chris, you are Top G.
You are one of the only voices I hear speaking on the things you do in the way you do. Not only taking to it with a critical lens, but a scientific one. More, you make what I'd say is an admirable attempt at being unbiased.
You continue to bring on the experts who not only have consistently great information, but are fantastically interesting as well.
I appreciate your show. Good work.
Bravo to the Doctor for her honesty and impartiality. I suppose that being studious and objective for years on end can usually only lead to one becoming more intellectually honest and humble.
Great conversation. More researchers like this professor in the academy will help drive our society in a positive direction
Fact is... Women tend to resent other younger, smarter, more attractive and or more successful women. Especially when they are all of the above. My girlfriend is 40 looks 20 and has dealt with 'Banshees' of older female supervisors holding her back intentionally.
Mate the entirety of feminism is meant to keep other women unhappy and alone.
Female competition is misinformation.
As a woman I’m not going to refute what she’s saying but the type of women she’s talking about that view female friendships for ally ship and female-male friendships for backup mates are women who are typically antisocial and narcissistic. This is why she referred to the movie mean girls, which doesn’t necessarily portray all female behavior, but rather unhealthy female relational aggression and dominance. Therapists like to point to that movie as a pop culture reference of how a narcissistic female behaves in friendships. Healthier women who seek female female relationships are typically looking for companionship and intimacy, at times this can be in the absence of it in their romantic relationships with men. They may also be in friendships with men for similar reasons.
You suggest that healthier women seek female-female relationships (and possibly even female-male relationhips) for companionship and intimacy. What you are suggesting is already described in this video as allyship (non-sexual commitment) and backup mates (partner-style intimacy without sexual commitment). I'm not sure you realized it, but you proved her point. Both healthy and unhealthy women do the same thing, you just tried to categorize it differently.
This was amazing! Just here to say more of these please! So fascinated by this real, objective analysis of female relationships/friendships etc. So interesting!!
It's also brilliant to hear Dr. Reynolds break down the historical social conditioning. Women aren't fighting over security in quite the same way anymore as we did back then- hopefully that reality sinks in, and the way women relate to other women doesn't need to be defined by men anymore. Its frustrating to think that women are cruel to each other so they gain more in relation to men.
I agree.
There is a book "In the Company of Women: Indirect Aggression Among Women: Why We Hurt Each Other and How to Stop "
"What does kind mean?" This question really opened my eyes. It registered as a perfectly reasonable question until after she answered it. Then my brain realized that in any other context that question would be weird.
It seems like such a stupid question, everyone knows what that means, but it made me aware that this is a precise scientific discussion where clarifying definitions really matters. The whole context around that question, how it was asked, her reaction (or non-reaction) to the question, all of it together hit me like an epiphany.
It was so refreshing compared to most of the content I watch.
Like you said, it is a valid question. People can be “nice” to you but have ulterior motives unfortunately. Actually being kind to someone may involve pissing that person off upfront because to me being kind to someone is really having their best interests at heart and that can mean giving them harsh truths that they don’t necessarily want to hear. It is weird because on the surface it is a weird question but I do understand the logic behind asking it.
as a chronic pessimist, this pleases me for some odd reason.
edit: best podcast on the planet. wish i could afford supporting. keep up the amazing work!
Great guest. She is right on the money on a lot of points.
Astonishing work ! I can see right now the difference beween men and womens regarding hierarchy. The genetic explanation for gossip warfare is so much on point !
Confirming episode to what I've always noticed in reality & had hang ups with acknowledging it beyond my own perception/experience.
Thank you
Few things better than listening to a dialogue between two super-smart people. And Reynolds is so articulate - she gives such long complex answers to the questions without getting lost.
I agree with Chris Williamson here: the more I learn about women's psychology especially from women psychologists, the more thankful I am to be a man. Stay strong and virtuous my bros
The response given about the benefits women gain from same sex friendships, was highly specific to combative situations in very competitive environments, in my opinion. I would say if you ask the average woman throughout the last several hundred years, the top response you would get boils down to ‘companionship’. It all centers around “someone to talk with”, and to share what Gemma Hartley describes in her book “Fed Up”, as ‘emotional labor’.
The primary thing you think of women doing together, in books and movies, and in nearly every other interaction in normal lives, is consoling each other, venting to each other, and strategizing. It’s a whole lot of talking. But it’s also sharing their lives, filling emotional needs, buoying mental health, and generating a social safety net for personal life disasters that will inevitably come.
From the standpoint of “discuss it with your girlfriends”, the bulk of the conversations about meal planning, dieting, career decisions, parenting advice, lamenting a breakup or a bad day at work, or dealing with an overcharged auto repair, women serve as sounding boards, reflective reinforcers and sage advisors. They also fill in with the emotional sharing that men find boring or exhaustive. Think shopping, wedding or baby shower planning, funeral arrangements, or rearranging the home decor. Women will spend hours with each other to pick out one dress. It’s a validation of that woman’s worth, but also a way to clock the time she spent on earth having meaningful relationships with other people, which by and large women predominantly value.
My grandma told me after she and her BBF found themselves as young post-WWII brides, they made the daily monotonous chores of housekeeping more enjoyable by taking turns helping to clean each other’s houses so they could talk and discuss their marriages and upcoming families with each other. Women, on average speak around 20,000 words a day according to scientific studies. While men speak daily on average only around 7,000. It makes sense that aside from children or people they are being caretakers for, the vast majority of these words will be shared with their female friends.
With the two sides of women’s brains wired to communicate more than men’s (which allows for better multitasking that is extremely necessary when combing child rearing with the multitude of responsibilities women have historically performed daily) there is more time for the woman’s mind to wander. Saying during washing dishes or laundry, gardening or sewing. There is nothing inherently dangerous about dusting, and a home needs tasks like that done regularly. What is an intelligent, creative and altruistic mind to do with hundreds of hours of lonely boredom and a desire for fulfillment and artistic expression?
Men’s traditional jobs are either highly technical or quite dangerous, and demand more immediate ‘in the moment’ attention. To be successful they must focus on the hunt, on the attack, or self-defense, on the repair, or on building something, so there aren’t mistakes or death.
But women’s work tends to be more repetitive and lends perhaps too much time to analyze past conversations, form assertions about the intentions of other people, and generate ideas for better techniques involving their daily lives and communicating with others. This is how you get out a difficult stain, this can be used to substitute an ingredient in a recipe for someone with allergies, this book helped mend a relationship with an estranged relative, this product got the dog to stop peeing in the floor, and that learning tool enabled their second grader master their math problems. And clearly that neighbor’s snub was related to the perception of a past wrong and and they will keep it up until it’s figured out what precipitated it and the wrong has been righted. Without the mind working, and then someone to share that with, women get lonely, depressed, and turn emotionally inwards on themselves. Having someone to talk to gets you to solutions a faster, and keeps the sense of well being high.
Women have been incredibly instrumental in creating useful, problem solving, burden lifting tools like: the windshield wipers, non-reflective glass, dishwashers, disposable diapers, and so forth. But…It’s through meaningful relationships that women have with other women, where they talk to each other, to create these problem solving tools and gain support to move forward with their ideas. By polling their friends they find out if ideas are marketable and in the process, also create networks of support that we have seen translate into house hosted ‘side income sales’ parties for everything from Tupperware, to scrapbooking, to makeup, to sex toys.
Following the complexities of the interpersonal relationship of women can certainly go down rabbit holes. But they also are as simple as having someone to share a meaningful experience with, and talk in depth about your life. Because honestly, however loving or supportive he wants to be, the average husband or boyfriends’s brain shut off at 7,000 words into the woman’s daily 20,000 allotment.
Came here for the video. Left because of your comment. Thanks for the knowledge.
36 Words of my daily 7,000 word quota are for you. I don't think I'll meet my quota today but I'll try 😂)
long post to completely miss the point. the phrase was asked so we could find out what real use women being together was in the past. what did they Actually gain. men have high correlations of cooperation and womens wasnt. why? what positive was actually there? explaining it away that women just want "someone to talk to" is.. weak at best. that is a modern lens. women had actual, real stuggles back then. like living. hygiene was difficult back then that could have something to do with it. i think their is a massive chunk of missing info. that info being that MASS amount of things women alone had skills to do in the past that in modern day men solve with machines. leaving all thats left for women being communicating. add 100 years of that and bam you have women without a clue what real life is like. most women dont have to realize what the world is like until there 30s. the necessity just isnt there for most women anymore, its handled. all you really NEED to do is find a husband to take care of you.
@xXtdudeXx92 Just like a man to tell a woman what HE thinks a woman wants, thinks, feels, or needs. How is that working out for you?
@@jameshomschek8155 If you left the video because of my comment, you clearly came for the wrong reason and left because you don't like a different opinion, which is probably more an indication of your character flaws than anything else. Good luck with that.
@@jaclync4183 Incorrect Deduction.
You flaws show through your need to attempt an insult.
I've binged a lot of your interviews and this is one of the best!! What a stellar guest. Knowledgeable and articulate. I learned a lot on this episode, thank you both!
These two podcasts: this one and the one with the lovely Joyce Benenson are properly positively-life-changing, and positively-awakening videos! Congrats and a big thank You to this channel! 🥰
Ugh, its all very true...hard to square against this "Embrace Vulnerability" culture that that has taken hold...vulnerability is not always a good thing..
@@dolphin069 yep, this is why I actually can no longer trust my mother to keep anything I tell her in confidence to herself; doesn't matter how much emphasis Is placed on sensitivity or privacy, her friends will be sure to hear about it eventually.
@@Alexander_Snowden
Ironic last name
Absolutely mind-blowing. This topic of female intra-sexual competition is so enlightening.
Very insightful and enlightening, thank you for having this discussion!
As a woman, I love male friendships. But I also deeply love and value my female friendships, they have had much more impact on me and touch me deeper in my soul. I need both in my life
lmao
thank you.. me too.. my female friendships have been and are so very enriching and growthful.. I feel so sad for so many of the people on these comments.. I hope they find sisterly friendships it is a wonderul thing
You missed Virgin shaming: Having the reputation you are a prude is also a way to hurt dating prospects specially on hypersexualized dating markets.
Fantastic discussion, bravo, probably one of the best I've heard ever on evolutionary psychology.
This was an incredible interview! Please have her back!
He should bring her back and ask the same questions and see if it’s consistent
👏👏👏 Love this! So great to see a female share the truths about female intrasexual competition
@@Pauline-zk8rn Comment is easily understandable, read a book.
@@Alexander_Snowden 🤣🤣🤣
☕️
I am so grateful to be a female. I think it’s so much easier, liberating and collaborative. It is so easy to make friends as a fun. That being said, I do not like competition with anyone.
Fascinating conversation without point scoring! Kudos to you both.
This video truly exposes the complexities amongst male to female but especially female to female relationships
My last few girlfriends friends sabotaged (you deserve it all!) our relationship into failure. Middle-aged single women want to share their misery.
Stay away from those snakes. They have nothing to loose!
Men don't form groups just for violence. Largest groups that men form are for labor, construction, and creation.
Amazing interview! 👏 Can't wait for round two!
Absolutely enjoyed the depth of knowlege and skilfull delivery of Dr Reynolds. Chris you did a good job with this interview: very prepared and let the gueat talk 👏
I can literally see all the building blocks of wokeness within this discussion. It’s literally crystal clear where it all came from.
Any rational person using their brain knew where wokeness started even before hearing this podcast. The people that deny it are either participating in self-deception, or are just malevolent to their core. I'm starting to believe it's the latter.
I can't watch a damn movies from the 80s and not see it
Lol. Lmao even.
Thanks for this. I’ve been thinking a lot of these observations and it’s nice to see them all here in one place. Moral of the story, women compete differently than men and in a much subtler way. Historically women’s survival depended less on loyalty… it’s worth knowing how this applies today in modern interactions.
Edit: women conspire together when reputations are at stake. They cover each other’s tracks when finding new mates and cheating.
We depend MORE on loyalty, is my takeaway. As a result we are hyper sensitive to markers for non-commitment and disloyalty. We are also needy for resources so we need to be be restrictive as of people who have less so that we don’t end up with leeches. On top of everything we have no physical strength worth a dime, so we have to be verbally aggressive to protect ourselves and those in our in-group.
@@emmadeemmut1352 to be verbally agressive won't be worth of anything to you. You still need to be respectful to be respected and to be competent in order to be professionally respected.
@@emmadeemmut1352 That all sounds about right to me, with a caveat on the loyalty thing. I can believe that women need others to be loyal to them, but it seems like they view their own loyalty to others as a matter of personal convenience and bendable. Hence the constant divorcing husbands, backstabbing friends, gossiping behind others' backs, etc.
Men require loyalty and shared bonding with other men for trust and brotherhood to form. Women, in contrast, make friends instantly everywhere they go. Just look at military men and their battle buddies, vs. military women who swap out their battle buddies constantly due to bickering and annoyances.
Also, women being loud and verbally aggressive is definitely something I've noticed, far more than I've seen it in men. Your reason for it is sound, but imo the only reason this is so common is because women know men aren't allowed to hit them back.
If a man acts the same way, it's grounds for a physical brawl. If women did get hit, the guy would be punished severely and the woman compensated. If men treated women like they do other men, there would probably be way less of that verbal aggression.
And finally, the avoiding of those lesser off in fear of leeching is absolutely correct. It's why women make such terrible men -- they won't support a man, whereas a man will support a woman. When men worked, you had healthy competition and not the minefield we have today with the war of the sexes. You also had far higher wages, since you had less workers, and one half of the population could support the other, as the woman returned support in their own way.
Now you just have every single person competing against every other person for a dwindling slice of the pie, terrible wages, bastard children everywhere, ruined families, and an increasingly violent society.
@@zusk8556 You really spoke facts when you mentioned a woman's loyalty to you is gone when you no longer benefit her, i do think women are more selfish when it comes to relationships.
@@zusk8556 A girl's world.
Fantastic Episode! I appreciate this conversation immensely! we need to start mapping the terrain of male and female intersection, especially in mate value equivalence and competition.
Very interesting. Love the guests on this topic recently
I love the psychology of these concepts 🧠
I'm really enjoying the direction Chris is going with these interviews. If I may, the problem with Red Pillers is that they don't ask the right questions and often just project their beliefs instead of looking for the answers.
Some of you might not agree with this statement but I think Chris is the real Red Piller. He's looking for the answers to questions that men and women struggle with for themselves and together. Not every conversation he has is a direct correlation to the topic, but a lot of them are. Basically I'm hoping Chris continues to grow quickly and can gain interest from the RP people and the anti RP people, because at the end of the day we really just want answers that're based on truth or the closest to it as possible.
Red pillers think until they found someone to blame, then they stop. Chris is more careful in his analysis
He's just aiming at objective reality in a manner that's more palatable to a broader audience.
Most red pillers don't seem like they're avoiding the truth so much as cherry picking information that suits them. They're trying to play the woman's game without truly internalizing the subterfuge and cloak & dagger mindset.
Red pillers are on the right track though. Women's instincts have hit on a dominant strategy and they need to incorporate it. I reckon sexual assault, violence, and a lot of traditional male destructiveness would disappear if we just though men at an early age that those forms of aggression aren't effective anymore. They need to fight socially, legally and culturally. Shame, psyops, manipulation are the tools of violence now. This would make things fairer but ultimately worse for both sexes so I dunno, seems to be a non solution.
Note: a man myself.
People get a distortion of the red pill. Even Chris. I would recommend going back to the source. ROLLO TOMASSI - The Rational Male.
I agree with you Chris is incredibly objective and impartial in this. He’s so matter of fact and looks at every nook and cranny before displaying an argument and tbh that’s incredibly refreshing. He’s not putting one sex as bad over the other or putting a victim mentality or pandering to one at the cost of the other…he’s dissecting humanity as it is and reflecting it as such. He’s delightful to see as a teacher in these things because of it. I look forward to his work because he’s not just surprising but fascinating. He doesn’t leave any stone unturned in his search for answers he looks at ALL angles. All of them, even the ones most guys in these discussions refuse to look into or search. Which is why he’s earned my respect.
I hate to have to make this simple analogy, but for anyone who has kept chickens, the nature of human females in groups is startlingly similar. The in-group is in, and an outsider has a very difficult time breaking in. If one is weak, that one might be literally henpecked to death.
Thank you so much for bringuing these issues to light. Women are so competitive, and throughout my adult life I noticed how much "games" we play. We gotta start taking responsibility to how we show up in this hypersexualized world, because we are inevitably perpetuating the issue, aka we are a part of this soup. Speaking for myself, it has been a struggle to be above it, yet I wouldn't want it any other way.
Once again Chris raises the bar.! Thanks!
this was a very eyeopening discussion. i grew up scapegoated by abusive mother & sister. my female friendships in adulthood have mirrored that same dynamic i learned from childhood: im overly nice, giving, loving, accommodating, and they use me and abuse me, and when i shine through my attractiveness or intellect, they get so offended that i would dare love myself and either abuse or discard me. i feel other women’s wrath and jealousy, from their accusations that im going to steal their man (never been the type, plus im bi so…) to their hatred of my successes. jealous women are weak and make shitty friends. i say no to those types now. i deserve friends who hype me up as much as i hype them up.
Very interesting and enlightening discussion.
Thank you Chris, thank you Dr.
Thanks, Chris. And thank you to Tania, I'd like to know more about her work I'll check it out! 👍👍
Another great an insightful episode that explained a lot of things in a very factual, non-judgmental manner. And how smitten she was by your compliment was so cute.