America's WW2 Flying Boat That Came With A Kitchen | Martin PBM Mariner
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
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Today we're taking a look at the Martin PBM Mariner, an often forgotten flying boat that was primarily operated by the US Navy. It saw extensive service in the Second World War and distinguished itself in both the Atlantic and Pacific, but it has mostly been forgotten and overshadowed by the PBY Catalina.
Sources:
Ginter.S (2013), Martin PBM Mariner (Naval Fighters) - geni.us/i6gBWZg
Hoffman.R.A (2004), The Fighting Flying Boat: A History of the Martin PBM Mariner - geni.us/2rBTZI
Smith.B (1986), PBM Mariner in action - geni.us/CIXyVS
The Bureau of Aeronautics, Navy Department, (1944), "Martin PBM-3D 1943 Pilot's Handbook of Flight Operating Instructions".
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Video footage courtesy of the National Archives: www.archives.gov/
0:00 Intro
2:48 Prototype Development
8:39 Early Service Life Pre-War
12:20 PBM-3, First To See War
14:46 Anti-Submarine Efforts
18:24 Into the Pacific!
21:07 PBM-5 & Pacific Action
27:17 Postwar Service & Legacy
***
Producing these videos is a hobby of mine - and apparently its now a full-time job too! I have a passion for history, and personally own a large collection of books, journals and other texts, and endeavor to do as much research as possible. However if there are any mistakes, please don't hesitate to reach out and correct anything :) - Věda a technologie
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F.A.Q Section
Q: Do you take aircraft requests?
A: I have a list of aircraft I plan to cover, but feel free to add to it with suggestions:)
Q: Why do you use imperial measurements for some videos, and metric for others?
A: I do this based on country of manufacture. Imperial measurements for Britain and the U.S, metric for the rest of the world, but I include text in my videos that convert it for both.
Q: Will you include video footage in your videos, or just photos?
A: Video footage is very expensive to licence, if I can find footage in the public domain I will try to use it, but a lot of it is hoarded by licencing studies (British Pathe, Periscope films etc). In the future I may be able to afford clips :)
Q: Why do you sometimes feature images/screenshots from flight simulators?
A: Sometimes there are not a lot of photos available for certain aircraft, so I substitute this with digital images that are as accurate as possible.
Feel free to leave you questions below - I may not be able to answer all of them, but I will keep my eyes open :)
Martin Mars? Saunders Roe Princess? Love the strange looking flying boats!
Too lazy to google, but wasn’t it one of these that exploded when it took off to look for flight 19?
Well damn sorry l am 2 day's late but here l am ans thanks for this excellent video....Congrats on this video...
Shoe🇺🇸
@@johnwkindig1613 both are on my list. The Princess video may not be for quite a long time as I am collecting some direct source material from old Sanders Roe archives.
Did you like your own pin? lol
The Mariner at time 27:40 being hoisted by a crane to a tender was literally my dad’s airplane. The plane was named DYNA MIGHT. There is a picture of her at the Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola, FL.
NOICE!
No kidding. So cool!
War thunder is about as free to play with as a Porsche.
I respect sponsorships, advertisements are always too good to be true!
Whine much?
Free to play? Yes. Free to win? Not so much.
Hahahahahah too true
1,000 hours 0 dollars…it’s all about how you want to play it
I have the pilots notes for the Catalina. It warns that the aircraft is naturally tail heavy so if you have a full load of fuel and stores you have to get the whole crew and as many bags as possible as near to the front as possible. My wife's grandfather stacked a Cat into Auckland harbour. This was due to the above problem, a tail heavy stall on take off followed by a a cartwheel into the sea. It is all in his log book. The results of the inquiry go into the Catalina's problems and eliminate pilot error. He was pretty bashed up, but after a long recovery he was well enough to fly Wellingtons, bombing submarine pens in Belgium (?) Nasty missions at night with heavy flak. His log book simply says "missing in action" . No sign of his aircraft or crew have ever been found. I think quite a few Catalinas have been lost in take off crashes ? Love your videos. Thanks mate.
My guess is your Grandfather took a direct hit by flak possibly in a fuel tank or wing. No chance to get a word out. Maybe G forces pinned the crew in. The English Channel may be his final resting place. All a wild guess. He was a brave man & I know you're proud of him. I am too! Great story! Thank you!
@@billcallahan9303 Nah, he's probably still out there chilling in an small country farm in Belgium under a different name. Inb why would he do that. People had an easier time disappearing and starting a new life before for simple reasons (like being behind enemy lines and hiding) rather than today.
@@nickhill934 my aunts fiancé was lost over the Baltic on mine laying duties in November 1943. Her second fiancé to be lost on RNZAF duties (she was a WAAF nurse on their airfield in Cambridgeshire )
Three a day in Tampa Bay!
The pilots flying the Catalinas considered them to be obsolete by 1943. This was primarily due to their very slow speed. Max speed was under 200 MPH and cruising speed was only about 125 MPH. One pilot said even C-47s could run away from them. When they flew rescue cap in the Pasific they had to leave more than an hour early just to get to the target at the same time as the strike aircraft. In spite of this the plane found a lot of utility in civilian use after the war and a lot of them flew on for decades.
Our next door neighbor was a gunner on a PBM, training at Corpus Christi and destined for Olympic when the bombs dropped. He's 96 now and still talks about the old bird.
WOW!!
Please record or write down his wartime experiences and stories! We are about to lose our last remaining connections to that time.
I concur. Oral history is important, and WW2 vets are getting scarce.
Good for him Lance & good of you to devote some of your time to him. He's a living historical record. I suggest video taping him. You'll find he'll be self-conscious at first then relax & open up after he forgets all about the camera. You could then edit it with any photos he might have & insert these at appropriate points in his talk. You could also grab some from the net then make a video of it for the Tube!
@@TornadoADV That's what I told him too ADV. Great idea!
I was a kid, talked to an older neighbor. Telling him how much I loved aircraft and flying. I was surprised by his response. He told me he hated flying and wouldn't get on an airplane for the rest of his life. He was in the US navy pacific theater during ww2. He was a gunner on a mariner, signed up for action(dumb kid) flew countless missions some up to 20 hrs. Long. Said he never saw a "god damn thing" or wanted near an airplane after.
Guess all crews didn't have fond memories 😕 lol
Writing lol after a sad emoji is an interesting writing choice
I've flown many hours in close proximity to a big radial engine. It's enough to take the joy out of flying.
I had a similar experience with a ground guy. I was a gun dealer and a friend wanted a garand. I found him a nice ww2 original and delivered it to him at the fire station. A ww2 vet was there and I saw him glancing at the rifle so I offered it to him to get a good look…..he pulled back like he had been burned and replies no thank you I never want to hold one of those again….
@@streetcop157 my uncle was an avid hunter and trapper before ww2.
After his service in Holland and Germany(twice wounded) he had no desire to target shoot with me. 50yrs later I understand why.
They likely don't have good hearing either!
My uncle, who was in the U.S. Navy in WW2, and the U.S. Army during the Korean War and Vietnam War, didn't talk about his combat experience, but he told me about flying in one of these. He said it felt like being in a building that somehow took to the air.
Wasn't that a Martin TBM Mariner that became famous in 1945 when one of them disappeared while looking for the famous disappearance of Flight 19 off Florida in the Bermuda Triangle.
@@karlknechtel8119 Why would there be fumes in the cabin?
thats what my grandpa told my mom haha said it was "just like smoking a cigar at the office"
In Germany I had the honor of being transported by a heavy lift Sikorsky. Our compartment was a Conex container winched up tight by a cable. It was like being in a Sears and Roebuck utility shed that somehow took to the air. With an infantry platoon inside. There were bench seats, and down the middle, an actual bench. Half facing forward, half facing aft.
My grandfather was in the navy during the Korean war on the USS Midway, and I have many pictures he took both of and onboard the PBM. Pretty cool aircraft 👍
My friend Bob passed away recently. He piloted these in WW2. He told me some interesting things about them such as for every hour of flight time 4 hours of maintenance was required because of the pounding the plane endured taking off and landing. Bob told me that mother ships would meet these planes out in the ocean and haul them aboard for repairs. While waiting, crewmen were required to walk the wings of the plane to keep an eye out for
Japanese frogmen sent from submarines in the area. These frogmen would attach explosives to anything they could to destroy them. He said our guys were told to shoot anything that moves in the water, don’t try to check it out, just shoot. It was interesting to hear him talk about his service. I’m blessed to have known him.
That's an awesome story from one of the Greatest Generation.
I like the name bob
Thanks for sharing that.
Four hours of maintenance per hour of flight is actually quite a good ratio for a military aircraft. The spec sheet for the C-17 Globemaster declares that it requires "only 20 maintenance man-hours per flight hour" although this refers only to airframe maintenance; Pratt&Whitney maintains the engines. The early F-117 was 113:1, declining to 45:1, the Concorde was 18:1, the Saab Draken was 50:1, the Eurofighter 9:1, the F-14 24:1, the F/A-18E/F 15:1, F-15C/D 22:1, F-16A 19.2:1, and B-2 124:1.
@@seanmalloy7249 How are these figures, calculated? Are they talking about, "man hours"? If, for example, 4 technicians spend 2 hours working on a plane, is that counted as 2 hours, or 8 hours (i.e., 2hrs x 4 techs = 8hours)?
My mother served as an aircraft inspector at Martin's plant in Middle River, MD during the war. She was hired as a typist but she was moved onto the factory floor when it was discovered she had a mechanical aptitude. I remember her describing climbing all through Mariners before they were moved into the river after assembly. She loved the work. I saw one in a museum years ago. What a beast!
That is great, you must be very proud!
That's awesome, Byers! It's amazing how employment for war production touched virtually every family in the country. A friend's grandmother worked in a munitions plant that exclusively assembled Mk2 Hand Grenades in Washington County PA. Your mom's job sounded a little more interesting!
My grandmother backed rivets on Catalina wings in Atlanta. Got that job because she was one of the only ones there small enough to fit inside the wings.
There's something about this flying, gunslinging houseboat that has always appealed to me. The image of a Mariner coming thundering out of the blue like a steel whale to the surprise and dismay of a submarine crew is a powerful image, but my favorites will always been the rescue operations undertaken by Mariners and Catalinas.
I always liked the rescue missions too. There's just something paradoxical about it. One minute you're floating in the ocean, the next, you're sitting at a table wrapped in a blanket, enjoying a cup of hot soup that one of the crew heated up on the stove! That'd be a weird, but good day!
Joi: The author here has grossly and incorrectly emphasized the facilities of these planes. They were NOT used as barracks or living quarters. That is simply untrue. If operating ashore, the crews would deplane and live in whatever facilties were available, just as the maintenance and admin sailors did. If operating with a tender, they would bunk aboard the tender. Invented humor gets carried away with itself. (old P-3 guy).
@@KB4QAA Yet the fact remains that it DID have a bunkroom. Certainly, those facilities were used for their intended purpose. I think we can all reasonably assume that the crew would have deplaned if better options were available.
The Navy built an all new successor to the Mariner called the SP-5M Marlin. It was basically a drastically improved PBM. It looked much like the older WWII era Mariner, but with a large radome nose where the nose gun turret had been, an improved hull, and a single vertical tailfin. It was called the Marlin and entered service in 1951. It operated with the US Navy until 1968. The last US flying boat operation was Operation Market Time during the Vietnam War. The North Vietnamese were smuggling arms and supplies to the Viet Cong on small boats in the Gulf of Tonkin. The Marlins were used to detect and interdict these supplies. They were ideal for this operation for the same reason they made great anti sub patrol planes. The Marlins were retired shortly after this operation.
And that's a pity, America should have _never_ eliminated the capacity for seaplanes from it's naval inventory. I suspect that brass hats of the 'modern' navy viewed them as a logistics 'issue', and it wouldn't have been that hard to convince SecDef McNamara to ditch them.
@@ironwolfF1 with there were a 500 strong seaplane fleet for fighting forest fires. So much faster to load skimming a lake rather than pumping in from tanker truck or firehydrent at an airport
@@ironwolfF1 The navy "brass" well understood seaplanes and made logical and sound decisions to eliminate both seaplanes and blmps beginning in 1961. Their time was past and better technologies existed. BTW, all navy planes are continuously being eaten by corrosion and seaplanes are the most vulnerable. Additionally, the additional equipment and complexity of operating seaplanes and their support equipment was a large negative factor. As fond as I am of seaplanes, the land based P2V's and P3V (P-3's) were far superior and much cheaper and easier to operate. (old P-3 Tacco).
@@ironwolfF1 Why not? What purpose would they serve? The near universal availability of decent runways around the world doomed the big flying boats. They are significantly more complex, costly and weather dependent than landplanes. Had they been an "idea to keep" there would have been jet powered models introduced in large numbers... (rather than the virtually experimental status that aircraft like the P-6M Seamaster reached) The last Flying Boat service in Australia ceased in 1974 (no doubt to sighs of relief by Ansett Airlines engineers and management...if not the pilots) when a runway was finally built on Lord Howe Island. Those flights were operated by the Sandringham...a development of the Sunderland.
@@KB4QAAthe funny part is the airforce is currently developing a C-130 with floats strapped on the bottom
The RAF's Shackelton also had a kitchen (galley). Christmas of '79 I was in Keflavik as a Weapons Director on a USAF E-3A. We were to fly an exercise with the Brits from No. 8 squadron out of RAF Lossiemouth. One day's exercise canceled but the Brits wanted to fly anyway. Prior to takeoff, we and the crew went to the base commissary to get food for the flight. I forget what I got but at least one of the Brits got a big can of Chung King Chop Suey (and the noodles) which he heated on a two (I think) burner electric stove. I believe the stove was on the starboard side just forward of the wing spar. The E-3A also had a galley that was pretty much what was on commercial Boeing 707s.I think there was a refrigerator/freezer, oven to heat frozen meals, coffee pot, and a sink.
I think there was a galley in the Shorts Sunderland too. Of course, there would have to be a tea pot ;-)
Were any Shackletons or E-3's swallowed up by the Bermuda Triangle like these PBM's?
Us Brits can eat anything!
My wife worked rescue helos at Kef during the early 1980s and got a courtesy card from the 8th which reads "Eight screws are better than two blow jobs" (a powerplant reference for those not familiar). Of course both courtesy cards and humor are obsolete today but it was a different era. I quite enjoyed serving in USAFE (Sembach AB, Broncos and 53s) as those we defended were worth defending unlike subsequent savage corrupt frenemy clients in recreational constabulary wars.
@@anandmorris Especially junior ranks. That's why when I was a USAF A1C I and two others borrowed shirts from our SSgt so we could eat together at the Gütersloh NCO chow hall which had much better food.
I was part of a work crew scrubbing the ground of carcinogenic and radioactive contaminants left over from the Glen L Martin's Mariner plant. Beautiful location that let the finished planes be rolled into Middle River, MD for their final checks and first flights. If anyone has time I highly recommend visiting the Glen L Martin Aviation Museum. Its very small but run by the childrren of the families who flooded the area in the 30s-60s to work the plants and the passion is unbeatable. The museum also has a collection of jet fighters spanning from korea to desert storm sitting lined up on a runway shared with the national guard(?) flying A10s regularly. It is the most unique aviation museum I've ever neen to.
I worked in that plant for a number of years in the 2000s. The history was amazing, and it's hard to believe some of the stuff we found in the nooks and crannies of the basement.
@@peterallen4605 can you share the information on the stuff you found while working there?...from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸 🤠
Warning to Australia ...
czcams.com/video/ewb8fwtfMfw/video.html
That rollout area into Middle River was called Strawberry Point.
@@chuckschillingvideos Strawberry point is where the seaplane ramp at the end of the runway is for the airport and where some finishing took place. Many of the seaplanes were rolled out of the factory into the barge basin directly behind the old B and C buildings.
Thank you so much for this fine, in-depth study. My Grandfather served aboard a Mariner from 1943 to 1946, first out of Banana River, Florida, then from the USS Pine Island in the Pacific campaign. We talked a LOT about his service and the characteristics of the big seaplane, including the gasoline fumes - he told me that, once, they'd picked up a full Colonel who'd ditched at sea, and the man insisted he was going to have a cigar - Grandpa said he offered to pitch the Colonel out of the airplane if he so much as touched his lighter. Grandpa was Jack Keller, from Deep River, Iowa - perhaps someone will find him in their records.
My grandpa flew at the same time. His name was Jim Cascarelli, and he was a flight engineer. He always talked about his old crew mates, Biddlecomb and Sorbey. Any of these names ring a bell?
@@jimmyvollman7596 Nosir, but considering the small force of these airplanes, they probably met. Was your grandpa attached to the Pine Island? I believe that six Mariners were, at any given time. Not sure where Currituck was at that time, or the other tenders.
@@jimmyvollman7596 I can't recall his name at present, but a Dutchman who served aboard Mariners for his country was deep into the history and compliation of an exhaustive book about twenty years back - never knew if he published or not. I sent him tons of original material, never heard back from him - figured that was the thanks I get.
Awesome! What a great story!
In the early 1970s, I often flew as plane captain on a station US-2B out of NAS Key West. One of the station's acft had a ferry tank installed in the torpedo bay and it always leaked so we had fumes in the acft all the time. Had to yell at a LT one time, when he was fix'in to light up! nYikes!
Yes, the American equivalent of the Short Sunderland, including the galley and beds. My late mother's cousin flew in them during WW2 and served with distinction taking over for a machine gunner who was wounded during an attack, he was tragically posted missing in action some time later and was never found. R I P Flying Officer Henry Morton DSO.
That 3/8 scale unit is adorable!
My father flew these in WWII. He was and will always be my hero.
my dad made them fly in the pastfic
Saw the Mariner in the Pima Museum last summer and was stunned how large it looks in person. The museum is worth a visit for anyone out that way. Great work on the video!
"The enemy's experience of a flying canteen dropping high explosive ordnance on their heads" hahaha you sir, are a legend !🤣 Great vid and Keep up the good work !
My father-in-law was a bombardier/navigator on a PBM-5 stationed in Fort Lauderdale at the tail end of WWII. Loved hearing the stories of his time on board. Notably bombing one of our own submarines (name unknown) and most notably, he was involved in the search for flight 19, the squadron of torpedo bombers that was lost in the Bermuda Triangle. There were two PBM-5's in the search and so happens one of them also disappeared. Thank God it was not the one my father-in-law was on. We lost him in 2012 and still miss him every day.
I grew up in Ft. Lauderdale. The "Bermuda Triangle" was just starting to become a household word back then.
A classmate of my older siblings, and his girlfriend disappeared from Ft. Lauderdsle beach one fine clear day in 1971? while sailing their tiny Sunfish within easy sight of the beach. No trace was ever found. The younger brother of the missing boy became a Coast Guard Captain featured on a news doc about interdiction of smugglers. He was proud of the multiple marijuana leaves painted on the stack of his boat.
The Flight 19 search was possibly the most famous mission of the Mariner!
The Short Sunderland had a galley fitted as standard, so the Mariner wasn't unique in that respect.
The Sumderland known as the "Flying Porcupine" by the Germans.
One these either 'disappeared' or most probably exploded while searching for the five TBM Avenger torpedo bombers of flight 19 that dissapeared flying over the Bermuda Triangle in lDecember 1945 while they were fllying a training mission..
I didn't know the Mariners were quite so large.
A great vid and must've taken alot of work.
Strangely, I grew up a couple miles from the field where the TBMs took off and now I live a few miles from the Pima Aor Museum. (pronounced Pee-muh) The museum started as a big dirt lot with a few sad piles of airplane-shaped scrap. I graduated aircraft structure repair school and addtional metallurgy and NDI courses.at Pima Communoty College and was welcome to volunteer at the museum, bucking rivets...
It was the reported fireball during the search for the Avengers that was believed to have been the Mariner. Why she exploded, is still unknown.
@@miafillene4396 Well, the Mariner was known as the 'flying gastank' and it was known to leak fuel all over the place.
@@bogusmogus9551 nice..so it was a bit the PB equivalent of the C46s that are scattered all over the route between Burma and China..
@@KateLicker Yeah, the dreaded 'Hump'
The Short Sunderland also had a kitchen. It was a large, 4 engined flying boat and had 2 decks. The lower deck had 6 bunks, a kitchen with a dual pressurised kerosene stove, a flush toilet and a machine shop for carrying out in-flight repairs.
Compared to the Catalina, the Sunderland had a 40% greater cruising speed a 25% greater bomb load, and could also lay mines. The Catalina had a slightly greater range.
There was no comparison when it came to guns, the Catalina had 5, the Sunderland had 16 of a similar calibre. The Sunderland, with all those guns sticking out looked more like a porcupine.
Eight JU-88s made the mistake of attacking a Sunderland. Six never got back. Three were shot down in the battle, the other 3 were badly damaged and crashed on the way home.
The Luftwaffe issued an order that no planes were to attack a Sunderland.
Two Sunderlands in a box formation (close together on diagonally opposite corners of a square) were considered invincible.
These two magnificent aircraft are often overlooked, yet played an important part in the war.
Thanks for giving the Pima Air and Space museum a little free publicity. It’s a nice museum, and conveniently located to Davis-Monthan AFB and the Titan missile museum. They rely on admission and donations to operate and maintain the aircraft.
Well worth the visit.
Thank you for this video. My dad was a radio/gunner on PBM-5s from November 1944 until the after the bombs were dropped on Japan.
I think part of the reason the Catalina survived better was their use as fire fighting aircraft. The Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum in Hamilton, Ontario has one that they converted from firefighting to the military design. Which flies since almost every aircraft in their possession flies has earned them the nickname of "Canada's Flying Museum" The same museum holds 1 of 2 flying Lancasters.
My father was a sailor and was invited to fly on a PBM during target practice in the Caribbean Sea. He got to fire the twin fifties up front as they did simulated strafing runs. The guns got so hot they started cooking off rounds. They were standing deep in spent brass.
I just love flying boats in general, there's a beauty about them that's unmatched by other aircraft, and it's sad to see them in crashed states like at the 11min mark. I love the Sunderland in particular, which is probably the most similar aircraft to this. If I was rich enough I would try to start up a flying boat touring company that travels to the most exotic destinations, but one can only dream
These are so cool. A flying, armed house. Makes me think of the Millennium Falcon or something.
Lol yeah everything including the kitchen sink...the pic at 20:44 makes me laugh it looks like 2 buildings are stuck on each side of the plane
When Flight 19 disappeared on the infamous training flight in 1945, a Martin Mariner was dispatched to look for them. It disappeared too, widely believed to have exploded mid-air.
Thank you for sharing this video. My father was a radioman on a PBM Mariner during World War II. He loved that plane! I have heard so many stories about his seaplane duty and this is the first time I’ve ever seen one fly! I wish my father was still here so I could hear those stories again and ask the many questions that I have now. He would have loved to see this video!
I flew on the PBM 5S2 from Dec of 1955 to Dec 1956 in Corpus Christi Texas we were an advanced flight training unit flying navigation training flights all over the Gulf of Mexico. We were the only Navy unit still flying the PBM as they had been replaced in the fleet by the P5M Martin Mariner. We always had a fresh hot cooked meal from the onboard galley prepared by a crew member also fresh coffee the entire flight. Half the flight I was the radio operator and the other half the radar operator when I wasn't flying I worked in the radar shop. I felt it was an honor as a young sailor to fly on these historical WW 2 aircraft some of our planes saw combat during WW 2.
Wilbur, thanks for the post. My dad graduated early’ 42from NAS CC. Flew PBYs there and moved to Pens.NAS and transitioned to PBMs. It’s amazing the Navy kept one so long thru ‘55. I’ve got a picture of him and crew on the ramp @ Corpus.PBM-3. Thanks for serving my friend.
Oh, he did mention that before any missions in 44-45, they would load a footlocker mostly w/ meat. Used it to trade to marines in Saipan for stuff.
Hey! I probably watched you take off! Was a kid there 56-58! find my comment here.
Maybe it's their reputation as rescue craft, their independence from runways, but also just their looks; slow-enduring humming bumble bees. But there's nothing like Flying Boats!
I grew up near Willcox, AZ (good job on the CC spelling) and that landing on the lake (the Willcox Playa) is a bit of trivia that probably only a handful of locals under 70 know! I have some history buffs in the family, though. The western part of the playa was and still is a military reservation/bombing range. It was used in WW2, but not since - the Air Force uses the Goldwater range in western AZ now. In my misspent youth (the mid 90s) my friends and I would go out onto the lakebed and hunt for bullets. There are .50 cal bullets and casings scattered all over, including some duds, which were the prized finds because fireworks were illegal at the time... so with a few duds we could make our own.
Thanks for sharing.
Boeing and Nasa consider the Wilcox Playa as the primary backup site for landing the Starliner Space capsules after they fly to the International Space Station. The reentry of the prototype capsule landed at White Sands NM but the entry burn was visible from Wilcox.
And I'm really thankful I live an hour away from the Pima Air and Space Museum. The next time I see this bird, the more I will respect it now.
The playa is such a unique place! There's a few other military crashes in the Tucson area, one being in the Rincon Mountain range. Some friends went camping there and stumbled upon some scraps from that crash. Another crash on the eastside of Tucson during WW II left dozens if not hundreds of bullets scattered along a dry riverbed (Pantano Wash) and to this day the occasional live round and scraps are found by hikers and dog walkers along that short stretch near Kolb Road, Pantano Parkway and the extension of Sabino Canyon Road.
The Sunderland flying boat also had a kitchen, bunks toilet and even a workshop. There is a complete one in the Royal Airforce museum in Hendon.
The Mariner was overlooked, yes. But reading the historical notes highlights the efforts of both aircraft and aircrew.
I used to mow a man's yard in High School. Pete Duffy was a WWII vet, and he was the cook on a PBM-5 Mariner. I was lucky enough that he showed me some first hand Polaroids of his plane. He even had a few where he was on the flight deck of an air craft carrier, and the plane was being towed behind. He told me that after a set number of hours, they would replace the engines in the field with refurbished ones just so they could keep the plane in action. He passed in 2008, and I wish I could get ahold of those photos just to scan them and share them with the world.
Dad flew PBYs 1942-1944 in the South Pacific, including Black Cats (VP-11). He came back to Banana River as a flight instructor, including PBMs. He told me the PBMs always smelled of gas...and crew often complained of "no smoking" restrictions on long flights. He was there when Flight 19 went down but uninvolved. When I asked him about the PBM disappearance, he shrugged and said they were flying gas tanks waiting for the right moment to blow.
The Catalina got all the attention and acclaim, but the Mariner was a better flying boat.
My goodness this is a fantastic video. Superbly researched and the photographs are spectacular. I haven't seen most of these anywhere else. My grandfather was a production foreman at Martin Aircraft Corp, whose responsibilities involved him in basically all of Martin's production aircraft from 1930 until the P6M Seamaster, so this documentary is very dear to me. Thank you.
Oh yes !!!!!!
I LOVE Flying Boats and the Mariner in particular is a big favorite.
Thank you so much for the upload Rex. You are one of the best.
I flew on Orions. The galley was small but it worked well enough. I used to wake up in the morning, over the Indian Ocean, and smell breakfast being made. Bobby, my ordnanceman, would be cooking ham, mushroom, cheese omelets, and blueberry waffles. He could also make a mean pot roast for dinner.
Our cook was an FE. Made pancakes, bacon, and fried potatoes in the skillet during those 2am flights, or spaghetti in the same skillet on those 4pm takeoffs. Would even deliver it to us acoustic types if we were in the middle of a hot prosecution. Narrator was absolutely right...crew became your family.
War Thunder sounds cool! I’m going to download it now! Thanks!
Oh hai Odd!
As a kid I loved reading stories about anything that flew, and that included UFOs and Bermuda Triangle stories. A PBM Mariner was lost looking for Flight 19. I can still remember the beautiful illustrations of the encyclopedia we had, and the dread from thinking about flying around, not knowing where you are, and then ditching in the ocean.
Thank you.
Love these big flying boats. Stuffed with all the amenities for the tasks at hand. Rescue a pilot, get him on board, warm blankets, maybe some steak and veggies..take off and get back home. These aircraft were vital and often unsung but I think they are great. Thanks Rex.
Thanks for this one. PBMs were based across the river and just up from us. I didn’t think much of them at the time, just huge blue monsters and knew little about them. I would have much preferred PBYs. They simply disappeared shortly after the war. Now it’s the nostalgia that I have as well as a desire to know more of the bird. This video was enlightening.
Imagine retrofitting/restomodding one of these into a luxury flying yacht with any and every convenience one might need to travel every inch of the planet! The shape and design are wonderful - these flying boats fascinate me.
From 2009 to 2019 I got to attend the Martin Mariner Reunions for the guys that flew and maintained the PBM's. My Dad was attached to the VP50 'Sugar Easy' Squadron known as the 'Blue Dragons' and he served in Iwakuni Japan during the Korean War.
I got to walk through the PBM shown in this video at the Pima Air Museum and sat in the pilot's seat when they had their reunion in Tucson Arizona in 2009. All the old guys that flew in them remarked how much smaller the interior of the plane seemed to them now that they are older.
Part of the reason the catalina is more well known than the Mariner is the fact that the Catalina's exploits at Midway were lauded in the film of the same name bringing additional recognition to the older plane. The Mariner did good work but mostly went without much publicity and largely was forgotten after the war.
Got to give you a nod on your prounounciation of Reykjavík, it's one of the better ones by a non native Icelandic speaker I have heard to date.
And as a Icelander myself, this makes me happy.
PLEASE do a video on the Sea Duck from Tale Spin. It is a fictional plane, but nearly any viewer of your videos is likely to enjoy the Sea Duck.
Until it quacks up
I've seen the Mariner at Pima Air and Space Museum, in Arizona. It really is an impressive size. A beautiful plane.
You don't know how bad I want that tadpole as a homebuilt experimental
Being a big fan of the Mariner this was greatly appreciated. I enjoyed the many never before seen- by me- photos and film. Please consider doing a video on the PB2Y Coronado. Thanks for the post.
I’m surprised that one of these boats weren’t converted into an early AWACS type since it was roomy enough and has facilities on board for lengthy patrols.
Perhaps you should do a video on the Grumman Albatross, another twin engined flying boat.
Ikr Early AWACS Flying Boats sound awesome as hell.........
*Now why am I thinking of a WW2 version of Ace Combat--*
Late in the war, they did carry a large external 'radar ring'.
@ Robert Dragoff
The technology wasn't available then Mr. Dragoff. Radar wasn't even perfected until post WW2.
They had a habit of getting swallowed up by the Bermuda Triangle, so that probably nixed the idea.
@@michaelcoe9824
Yeah but it wasn't an AWACS system or a ASW system by any means. Mostly they went by what they managed to intercept via radio and relay information from their visual observations to allied ships and aircraft.
The Tucson (ok, Wilcox, but close to Tucson) story was good; clever name “Mirage.” Kinda ironic that last surviving example is also now in Tucson.
Epic episode. A lot of hard work has obviously gone into this one.
A beautiful Seaplane. It screams,Liberator/ Clipper Ship & a brute compared to the thin waisted Catalinas. Never use a riveted Alum boat around Salt water , the pounding makes them brittle.
DR: Aviation aluminum "Duralum 24/2024 is much stronger and less brittle than cheap consumer boats.
The extreme long range model carried 33,950lbs of fuel alone when fueled up with 4,850 gallons of fuel. I am always blown away just how much fuel they carry on board and how much weight it weighs. I know on land when carrying that much water you have to be mindful of the weight sloshing around changing the load. I can only imagine just how much of an impact that kind of weight sloshing around would have on the planes performance.
I wonder if the fuel tanks had internal baffles to keep that very problem under control?
Thanks for adding this. From 1955-1960 the Royal Dutch Navy bought 17 PBM-5A's flying combat and reconnaissance missions over then Dutch New Guinea (now West Papua) before the handover to the UN and later Indonesia in 1962. The planes were plagued by engine failures and lack of parts. After a few fatal crashes the planes were decommissioned and replaced by Lockheed Neptunes and Grumman Trackers.
Hey! Martin built some of the most ADVANCED US Flying boats, yes... But don't forget Consolidated, the aircraft manufacturer that was delivering the Catalina and Coronado from the mid 1930s. Newly delivered units were flight tested by Navy crews who took off from the protected waters of San Diego Bay after rolling down a concrete apron and taxiing across the water.
My Dad *_James Donald "Pug" March_* served 29 years in the US Navy from the mid-1930s. He was an Aviation Chief Ordnanceman's Mate on the USS Hornet CV-8 from about spring of 1941. So he helped arm Colonel Doolittle's B-25 Bombers for the raid on the Japanese Islands. He continued with the Hornet till she was sunk by US Navy after the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands, October 1942 to prevent the ship's capture by the Imperial Japanese Navy.
Afterward, I'm guessing because he'd been awarded the Navy Cross for his actions securing an unexploded Japanese bomb in the ship's final battle - *_and was one of the handful of some 35 of Hornet's complement of pilots, officers and sailors who actually survived to receive their Navy Cross awards_* - he jumped at the opportunity to train and serve as a bombardier with the crew of a Consolidated "Coronado" PB2Y, the 4-engine _big sister_ of the better-known Consolidated Catalina PBY. I don't know how many of the first delivered 2,159 Catalinas had galleys, but during the war, Cats and Coronados had a small galley and bunks for crew for the long patrols over water.
Consolidated delivered only about 200 of the Big Coronados, before Martin began delivering their hulls with substantially improved capacity and performance. But My father flew a lot of overnight missions before that, attacking Japanese warships that had been spotted in isolated anchorages. Their missions were timed to arrive just at first light, hoping to catch the enemy crews before they were prepared. That's Astounding navigation.
Coronado Pilot Stan Mahoney published his own story "I'm in Aviation Now!" including a photo of himself and my father, and another member of his squadron, all three of'em in their Khakis sitting with big grins around a table with cold beers, in some O-club on one of the newly-liberated islands. My father never talked about combat. The stories he shared were about the friends he made, or exploring the battle-torn islands, or cobbling together a makeshift sailboat from discarded drop tanks, a few spars and parachute cloth, to tool around the lagoon among the anchored ships and Flying Boats.
Still amazed to think of the quiet, cheerful perseverance and determination of my parents and their generation.
I would love to see these as civilian aircraft. They would be great at inter island service around the pacific where you have many private islands too small for airstrips.
Probably too costly for a commercial service.
Slightly different float plane but similar purpose is the PB4-Y which many are now in civilian hands
(Edit: As someone pointed out my mistake, I meant the PBY-4 Catalina lol)
@@undeadfredlive3837 Are you sure about the number? I would be willing to bet that PB4-Y Privateer is a maritime conversion of B-24 Liberator and not a float plane. What plane do you have in mind, I'm curious?
@@FolgoreCZ Ah that's my bad, I meant the PBY-4 Catalina.
The design is junk compared to modern systems. They're great fun as aviation artifacts which should never be confused with "practical to operate". ICE aircraft engines of that size are of course obsolete for fuel cost reasons but are also highly maintenance-intensive per flying hour.
Not everything that's cool is a wise idea. They're a lovely museum piece and should remain as such. Aluminum is an awful material for repeated contact with salt water and spray. It would be a maintenance nightmare. (Maintenance was of course secondary in combat operations in WWII and short airframe lives were expected as aircraft were disposable.)
It's really heartbreaking how the US Navy no longer flies any type of seaplane that can be use in regular ISR or maybe tanker missions, while their Japanese counterpart still does and being manufactured by the successor of Kawanishi aircraft industries.
It's bigger brother, the "Mars" finally stopping it's water bombing missions in B.C., Canada in 2016 Fabled water bomber once used to fight B.C. wildfires ... - CBC
2:22 This is why the Churchill tank was the best tank in the war. Because that’s what Churchills would do. They were slow but they would pitch up in places anything heavier than 5 tonnes had no right to even think about going.
I've always loved flying boats. Thanks for uploading this- the Mariner is gorgeous!
My grandfather was a Navy Ensign pilot that flew the PBM during WW2. First active duty was in the Caribbean. His last station of duty was in Okinawa. Many times he told of the mission he was on, when he saw one of the atom bombs mushroom cloud. They were told before that misión to stay away from three certain areas. They were in a recovery pattern as their main duty was Air Sea Rescue.
they also flew missions over Japan after Japan surrendered to drop rations and cigarettes to the POWs.
Absolutely excellent production! THANK YOU! This sets the bar for ALL war history videos.
I live in Tucson, AZ and have been to the Pima Air & Space Museum numerous times. I grew up not far from the Willcox Dry Lake or Playa. Your CEP is within 150 miles, Rex!
There does seem to be something about a flying boat. Possibly something to do with the pre-war glamour associated with it.
No ship...
@@JTA1961 😀
Ansett airlines here in Australia operated Sandringham flying boats (a development of the Sunderland) to Lord Howe Island from Sydney until Sept 10 1974! (Two aircraft operated the service, one of which was actually an ex RNZAF Sunderland converted to "Sandringham" passenger configuration) The service continued for that long as until 1974 there was no runway on the island. The perfect (and original) justification FOR a flying boat.
Great episode - I've seen pictures in passing and wondered about this airplane and its interesting design. Thanks for the in-depth video and all the research that went into it!
This is first I've heard of it. And I love flying boats, especially the Catalina. After watching your presentation it's obvious the Mariner had quite a career. Thanks for the hard work you put into these videos.
thats why ther were a flight enniener
Throughout your excellent narration, your enthusiasm for the subjects of the episode shines through.
Thank you for your detailed account of these phenomenal aircraft and the Crews that lived aboard them during their many missions. Subscribed.
What a wonderfully produced video! Nicely in-depth. And the PBM is a great plane to cover. What a shame it's not well known, such an awesome flying boat.
It is a very good possibility that my Morfar worked on the Mariner as a carpenter. He worked for Martin and lived in Baltimore County, building the molding structure to form the metal around for the airframes, and he also designed a Rivet hole burr remover device.
I live in Tucson, AZ. I've seen the PBM in person. The Pima Air and Space Museum is amazing if you're in Southern AZ it's worth the trip.
As soon as I saw the original photo I thought, it doesn't look like it has enough engine for such a large plane. Another excellent documentary. Thank You
Short Sunderland’s had a galley (kitchen if you must) as well, ideal for long patrols out over the Atlantic.
Correction for war thunder: you need to painstakingly grind for the vehicle you want
I've seen the one at the Pima Air & Space museum. It's significantly bigger than a Catalina and impressive. It's a highlight of the tour. Now I need to see a Mars up close!
CZcams has a video about several brightly colored Mars seaplanes which are kept moored in a beautiful lake somewhere in, I believe, British Columbia. Sorry I don't recall the name of the channel, but I hope you can find it.
Amazing Video! My Grandfather was a Enlisted radio operator on a PBM both in WW2 and Korea. Such a cool Aircraft!
Excellent video! Such an enormous amount of research.
Excellent history and presentation. My compliments.
My grandfather was an engineer with Martin from 1937 to 1970 and worked on the Mariner project and the P6M Jet flying boat
My great grandfather was the captain of one of these during WWII. He and his crew named it “subconscious”, as its mission was to hunt subs.
My father flew the PBM5 for it's last two years (early 1950s) in VP-45 and spent the majority of his time stationed at NAS Coco-Solo, Panama. I grew up listening to his stories of the PBM Mariner and how no one really knew about the plane. I wish he could have seen this but he passed away in 2005, before CZcams.
When I was a teen-ager in Bermuda in the 1940s/50s Mariners were common sights on Cold War patrols from Bermuda's U.S. Naval Operating Base, later joined by their later and newer sisters, The Marlins. At the end of each month, patrol crews had to reach a minimum quota of flying hours, and so night-time "circuits and bumps", often resulted in broken sleep as we lived on the waters quite near the take-off routes.
Both PBMs and PBYs were a daily part of my childhood. My father was top Base Engineer for NAS Corpus Christi, 1956-58 - and since there were no appropriate quarters available for a Captain at the time (Dad built runways across the Pacific with CBs during WWII) - we were assigned the old Officers Club - at the edge of the base; the Bay was our back yard; and right by the Crash Boat station. We were also right at the end of the runway- we had a flashing light on the top of our house so the "Middies" - naval aviators in first training- wouldn't hit us.
We loved to watch the PBMs take off for training; the JATOs (we never called them the full "Jet Assisted Take Off" units) were exciting fireworks shows, and we always looked for lost JATO pods when beach combing. PBYs were cool; but the PBMs were very special, that tail seems to say "Ok, SERIOUS here."
Massive, impressive, beasts in the air, so unlike the usual "trainers". I got to climb through one during one of the regular Air Shows (usually including the Blue Angels!) - pure cosmic fascination for a 4th grade Navy brat fresh from our previous station of Guam.
And once or twice a year- the Crash Boats would haul a wrecked one up their ramp right by our house - a PBM past being fixed again would be used as a target for "over-the-shoulder bombing" training. They seemed to mostly survive bombing runs. We hated to see them headed for scrap. You couldn't help but love these planes. We'd sneak over (Off Limits!) and walk around them; touching the battered skin - in awe.
I thoroughly enjoyed this program. I had been sadly ignorant of the Martin PBM, but no more. Thank you so much!
Very interesting and entertaining video. Thank you. I was blissfully unaware of this beautiful flying boat.
Young man, you are doing a wonderful job on this channel, keep it up!
Great documentary. Thanks, Rex and team.
The EC-121M, on which I was a crew member in the early 70s, had a galley and seating for 8, as I remember - it may have been 12. We ate in shifts. Anyway, on our 8-9 hour missions, there was always a good meal - sometimes steak. There were some really good Navy cooks.
Great video! I saw the Martin aircraft in Tucson last year, but didn't realize it was the only one in existence. My late ex father in law flew a PBY in WW2 so it was interesting for me to hear how the two planes compared.
This is very good history information - something that I have never heard of before.
Nice finding your channel.
outstanding, well researched video!
A very informative video. I was impressed with the level of information included with this video. Well Done!
Great summary. I hadn't heard very much about the Mariner and this is a nicely researched and well-illustrated piece to fill in the blanks. As an ex-C-130 guy I can vouch for the value of the kitchen in a military aircraft. In 1982 we were flying long sorties from Ascension down to the Falklands; with AAR from Victors and later other C-130s these often lasted 17 hours and the record was 25! We only had a basic kitchen but hot food was not a luxury!
Only one minor point: 'Coronado' is pronounced 'Cor-on-ar-dough' with a long 'a', after the location made famous by the movie 'Some Like It Hot', oh and the USN base where they do the SEAL training.
I did a couple of those C-130 trips from Ascension to the Falklands as a passenger in the eighties. I remember having the opportunity to watch one of the AARs with another C-130 from the back of the cockpit - fascinating. Always had an affection for the 'fat Albert' after that, but that may have been because all the mail that arrived during six-month tours of duty came by that means!
Thank you for a thorough history of the Martin. It was an amazing aircraft.