Giant Soviet Flying Boat That Chased NATO Submarines | Beriev Be-6
Vložit
- čas přidán 7. 04. 2023
- Today we're taking a look at the Beriev Be-6. This was a large flying boat developed in the Soviet Union, and one that saw extensive service during the first few decades of the Cold War.
Want to join the community? Visit our Discord - / discord
Want to support the channel? I have a Patreon here - / rexshangar
The Hangar Team :
Rex - Aviation enthusiast for 25+ years, obsessive collector of books, compiler of research, and narrator.
Alexandros - Co-Researcher and preserver of Rex's sanity.
Franch - Editing guru, makes Adobe seem "fun".
Sources:
Gordon.Y (2013), Soviet Naval Aviation 1946-1991
Gunston.B (1995) The Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft From 1875-1995.
Gordon.Y & Komissarov.D (2008), Chinese Aircraft. - Věda a technologie
F.A.Q Section
Q: Do you take aircraft requests?
A: I have a list of aircraft I plan to cover, but feel free to add to it with suggestions:)
Q: Why do you use imperial measurements for some videos, and metric for others?
A: I do this based on country of manufacture. Imperial measurements for Britain and the U.S, metric for the rest of the world, but I include text in my videos that convert it for both.
Q: Will you include video footage in your videos, or just photos?
A: Video footage is very expensive to licence, if I can find footage in the public domain I will try to use it, but a lot of it is hoarded by licencing studies (British Pathe, Periscope films etc). In the future I may be able to afford clips :)
Q: Why do you sometimes feature images/screenshots from flight simulators?
A: Sometimes there are not a lot of photos available for certain aircraft, so I substitute this with digital images that are as accurate as possible.
I'm fascinated with flying boats. 🙂More videos like this would be great fun! Thank you.
Gonna keep going with the Berievs? the Be-12 is my favorite, because it'd make a good yacht, and the -200 is a rare turbofan-powered flying boat.
Can you do a video on the Saunders Roe Queen?
It looks very similar to a Martin Mariner. How much did Bariev know about the Martin Mariner when he designed it? and is the similarity skin deep? or are the planes very similar in invisible ways as well?
Then can I suggest you follow up on your Beriev 6 flying boat with a video on the Beriev 12 turboprop amphibian sub hunter?
There's just something about flying boats... The clean, smooth lines just speak to me.
Are you sure those aren't just the voices?
those “clean, smooth lines” most likely partly stems from the need for a certain belly design to accommodate water landing/takeoff and buoyancy… like with the PBY-5/5a, though the same can’t be said with the PBM-2 “Mariner” that thing is like an ugly amalgamation of the PBY-5 and the British “Sunderland” flying boat
Looks like they copied a Martin design
Agree. There are some lovely smooth lines to this bird
@@StrikeWyvern nah they tell me to waste more time making ridiculous builds in Skyrim instead of anything productive.
The Beriev Be-6 looks like a Martin PBM Mariner fed a steady diet of potatoes, beets, vodka, and Communism.
I'd suggest the 23mm cannon were offensive as much as defensive, especially against surfaced submarines & smaller patrol boats.
Certainly a 23mm shell is going to hurt a 50's sub if caught on the surface.
@@lafeelabriel indeed, the Russian 23mm round had very good armour piercing capabilities. A submarine cannot dive If it has holes in it. If the guns were purely for defence then 12.5mm would be better.
@@papalegba6796 Against the quicker jet fighters it was slated to go up against, I'd disagree. While it may be harder to score a hit with the slower and heavier projectile all you'd need is one or two hits to cripple or even outright kill practically any aircraft it was facing. While with a .50 cal maybe it'd dissuade the pilot but he'd know if he took only a couple hits his aircraft would probably be fine.
@@StrikeWyvern wrong.
@@papalegba6796 Elaborate?
Well, at least two Black Sea Fleet's Be-12s were active as of last September - when I visited my parents, living near the sea, I saw them flying regularly along the coastline.
Really? That's awesome. Any flying boats still active should be preserved as long as possible!
There are still 9 Be-12 in service in Russia and 2 in Ukraine, so not surprising some of them can be seen in the area.
@Луми Чирк В Украине было 2 Бе-12, но что с ними сейчас мне неизвестно.
@@user-if9hg6xf2v Ничего..догнивают на месте стоянки...на том самом аэродроме, куда садились самолеты Черчиля и Рузвельта на Ялтинскую конференцию 1945г. память о которой запад бесстыдно ПРЕДАЛ ...
@Луми Чирк only if the Russians destroyed them after the war broke out, as there were still 2 Be-12's in operation in the Ukrainian Navy as of January 2022
The next person to say it looks like a PBM Mariner gets sent to the salt mines.
About those salt mines… one of the worlds biggest salt mines is under Lake Michigan, in the US. Underground mining, of course.
Martins were similarly beautiful in shape and form.....
It doesn’t “look” like a Mariner. It’s a complete rip off of one.
Nah it looks like a PBM-3 ;)
I would suggest that the "hydro-acoustic" system, featuring an extended tail probe and capable of detecting a sub at 50 meters depth, was actually not in any way "hydro-acoustic".
It was a magnetic anomaly detector. Basically, a big metal detector, which didn't work by sound.
This is a common feature of anti submarine aircraft. It works while flying low. To use acoustic detection, you have to land on the water or drop sonar buoys.
If it was a hydrophone, it would make for a great noise generator :D
Вы, абсолютно, правы..это
" магнитометр"....А гидроакустические буи сбрасывались по определенной схеме в районе нахождения подлодки и их сигналы принимались и анализировались экипажем.
P-3 Orions and the MAD boom. Thats what I thought when I saw that mod on the aircraft. Same same Khap! Good eye dude.
Yeah buoys is a heli job nowadays
The PBY had phenomenal range in exchange for constant, unrelenting, pilot attention.
Not unlike the U-2 which was also said to be equally unforgiving given the slightest
lapse on the part of its pilot.
That's more a space ship. They Are highly trained for the aircraft, similar to NASA autronauts crews.
The PBY was notorious for fuel leaks even when in good repair.
Worked on U-2s 5 years.Flight envelope at 70 80 k feet is very thin. Overspeed, underspeed ,angle of attack, etc you lose control.
That shot of the Soviet Naval crew next to the huge aircraft behind them is kind of funny when you realize their "workplace" is probably bigger than the houses they lived in as children by an order of magnitude...and it flies!
It took me a bit but I realized that a lot of the footage being used was from War Thunder. It really does look natural unless you are really hunting for oddities in the footage.
War Thunder is a great source for footage, given its large selection of aircraft.
the water and shore lines are always a dead give away not only that but it was getting shot at or something when landing in one of the clips
I realized this at 14:50 recognized the landscape and just felt sad about that fact
It entirely looks unnatural
There is no such thing as ugly utility. Utility is beautiful all on it's own. Thanks for the upload. Always fascinating content.
I always loved the look of this thing. In my mind, it falls into the same category as the Tu-95 Bear and the Be-12; objectively ugly but undeniably cool with its brutal and utilitarian design.
If you like the look of this, you should look at the aircraft it was copied from, the Martin PBM Mariner.
Well there can be no such thing as 'objectively ugly'. Aesthetics are purely subjective. I think it looks very cool
@@guyintennfor sure, bud, every Soviet aircraft is a copy of American design
@@Alexandros11 I mean, these Soviet designs are often a bit Quasimodo-ish. Lumps, protrusions, probes and acres of paned glass. They were never the most aesthetically pleasing aircraft, but very cool nonetheless.
I was also exercising a device called hyperbole.
The Tu-95 is beautiful!
Minor correction: The Chinese engines weren't Wopen-6, but rather Wojiang-6.
Wopen means turbojet, while Wojiang means turboprop.
My grandfather was a naval aviator (don't call him a pilot! Lol.) and he started out in Avengers in WW2, flying from the USS Randolph. Post war, he flew Catalina's for a very short time before transitioning to P2V Neptunes.. he was an anti submarine specialist, and eventually served on the JCs ASW planning staff...
He loved the Neptune, but I remember him saying once that the Catalina was his favorite plane to fly, with the exception of the T-6 Texan the trainer which all ww2 aviators started their training on. (Ones first love is always the best,, eh?)
Cheers. Great vid! my grandfather would've appreciated your channel... He missed out by only a few years. (+1 from me, for sure!)
Love flying boats, thanks Rex
Hello from across the ditch in New Zealand. Hope you're enjoying your easter
Hee, noeece to heea soomone from across the globe!
Hope your doing well, Russ!
@@mikulaszach2652 Happy Eastern 🥚🥚 😊
Looks likes like a variant of the Martin flying boat, especially that tail.
I absolutely LOVE the starting and revving engine sound you use at the beginning of all your videos, thank you!
Looks a lot like a Mariner.
The U.S. sent $11.8 Billion ($180 Billion in adjusted dollars) in Lend-Lease military aid to the Soviets in the early days of WW2. The aircraft shown is obviously a Martin PBM Mariner - not a Soviet design.
@@johnlindauer The turret looks like an First model Mariner. Evidently the Russians missed one when Stalin edited lend lease vehicles from Russians filmes.
@@johnlindauer Could it be that somebody took a transport version and stuck a bunch of Russian guns on it. i always wanted one for a camper.
@Cancer McAids Where did you find that info. There is somewhere that says no Martin Mariner Transports were sent to the Soviet Union. It is obviously not a PBM but maybe a PYM or what ever the letter designation for transport at the time even the beaching gear is the same as a PBM sequitor or not. It would not the first time a mis identified photograph occured. Is there a drawing?
@Cancer McAids the U.S. sent over 14,000 aircraft to the Soviets during lend lease. (As well as 400,000 jeeps and trucks, and 13,000 tanks).
The Mariner was designed in 1937 and entered service - as a submarine hunter - during the first phase of the war. The resemblance is beyond uncanny. It's either a reverse-engineered copy - or one of the MANY Mariner variants. Shrug.
The line "landing safely despite its want to undergo self disassembly!" And "not infact watertight!" Are very disturbing and seriously hilarious!
I love your videos. The Beriev Be-6 puts me much in mind of the Martin PBM Mariner.
Agree. There is an uncanny similarity. Surprisingly not mentioned in the always excellent commentary.
Also has elements of the P5M Marlin as well.
and i thought that this aircraft looks like a PBM Mariner with inverted B-29 engines
To be fair this is a pretty good description, though I would replace the "B-29 engines" with "ironically more powerful Soviet copies of the B-29 engines"
Love the gull wings, cool looking boat.
I love flying boats so much
Funny enough "chunky but deadly" is the new thing guys with "dad bods" will start calling ourselves
looks visually like the PBM mariner
From the perspective of forty plus years in performance fluid dynamics, I find the top planform view, beautiful.
The Be-6 has a strong general resemblance to the Martin PBM Mariner, and a quick look at the specs shows the PBM is slightly larger. The PBM entered production in 1940, two years before the initial spec for the Be-6. It appears rapid postwar technology advances trapped the Be-6 in development hell.
This. The PBM Mariner was already nearing the end of it's service life before the Be-6 entered service. I'd like to see a comparison of the two.
CCCP copied a LOT of aircraft, and made some better. Concordski?
Yup, my dad was the navigator, with other responsibilities too
Literally had no idea this existed. usually with old aircraft I feel I've heard of it or seen photos but this one was totally new to me!
Impresive research. However, isn't nearly identical to the Martin Mariner??
Love the successor of the Be-6, the Be-12… but the Cat will always be my fave ❤
Your B roll of the Be was clever you had me fooled I thought it was actual old soviet film!
When I noticed at one point that it was War Thunder footge I was looking at (I was just in naval on that polar map 😅), I was VERY impressed at how convincingly you'd edited it to look like it was filmed contemporarily
And the footage,where is was flying with a pby,you could tell also by the clouds in the background.
@Rex's Hangar - The Cat & Beriev Be-6 footage is spectacular. My brother and I would watch Coast Guard Cats suspended in the air on coastal patrol. Given the right headwind the airplane would literally appear to be suspended in mid-air, way below stall speed. An optical illusion? Mid-fifties (when the Sea Kings were replacing the Cats).
Actually, any aircraft can do that “stationary flying”. It’s just the need for airflow over wing to create enough lift. There are published records of the US B-29 (no small plane) in Japanese winds aloft, flying some 60 mph BACKWARDS. But it still had enough wind speed over the wings to keep lift happening.
@@rickkubik6666 - Amazing. Thank you for the data. My dad was a bombardier in a B-29. Perhaps footage of a backward flying B-29 exists.
I had a feeling that eventually turbo props would replace the radials in the plane’s history.
It took a while, but this plane got them.
Interesting video
Super cool thanks 👍
Yes !!!!!
More flying boats !!!!
Bravo Bravo 👏
I would have placed the Sunderland in 1st place as the most well known, the most beautiful, the most functional, the most adaptable and the best seaworthy characteristics. The Catalina was more numerous, but it was very limited by its weight, or lack of it, the passenger carrying limitations, and the inability to carry life rafts for dropping to downed airman and survivors of sunken ships.
The Emily is still my favorite though lol.
@@anaugle2484 I don't respect ANYTHING about anything that Japan did. The savages took two of my uncles prisoners and treated them in a most disgusting and uncivilised manner. And Japan is still exactly the same in present times.
The Catalina’s were designated the GST.
@@davidmurphy8190 Ah, GST. Greenwich Summer Time! But, what has that got to do with a Catalina?
With the gull wing and twin tails it looks very much like the Martin Mariner
My thoughts exactly.
With their uncanny ability to copy foreign made aircraft such as our B29, F-111 and C5A Galaxy, and yes even the space shuttle, I would venture a guess that the Soviets copied a Martin PBM Mariner and made this airplane for their Navy. They have never had any problem with stealing US designs for anything.
@@allaboutboatsThe Galaxy? If you mean the An-124, they are very different designs. I know you Americans claim everything if copied from US designs, it isn't nearly as true as you claim.
@@owenshebbeare2999 It is a well known fact that the AN124 was an exact copy using stolen Lockheed blueprints. Get a grip on reality dude.
@@owenshebbeare2999 Shuttle and Buran systems are even farther apart than Galaxy and Ruslan
You can do nothing but giant, pudgy flying boats from here until the sun explodes, and I’ll be here every time.
I always find flying boats to be graceful and beautiful no matter how ungainly they are perhaps rightly perceived as. I think the bias may come from having seen, and toured the inside of a PBY Catalina at an airshow when I was seven.
I have been around airplanes since I was 2. Cessna 140, Bellanca, Navion, Piper Apache, the Tri-Pacer, Stinson, O-1 Bird Dog, Beech 18, Bonanza, Stinson Reliant, Shinn, Piper Cherokee, Aero Commander 500 and 560, Waco biplanes, and a few I cannot remember.
The PBY Catalina is my all-time favourite! 😍🥰😎
Something about the fact that everything in the USSR was done in numbered factories that were all owned by the government really speaks to me. When you said "factory 477" it just sounded like the title to a really good soviet novel.
Plant 42, Palmdale Aircraft production flight test center. how about that one?
Не всё делалось на государственных заводах
Please can we have a long episode ( or a two parter) on the Short Sunderland and one on Coastal Command?
I used Vladivostok as a fuel stop in the early '90s when flying a Gulfstream G2 around the Pacific Rim. This video caught my attention as I recall there being multiple rows of top-gull wing twin engine airplanes on the ramp, none or them appearing particularly airworthy. Likely Berievs, Be-12s perhaps?
There were Be-6 and Be-12 stationed in Vladivostok and Kaliningrad. In the latter, the last Be-12s were decommissioned as late as in 1997, and Be-6 were put out of service not that long before. In Kaliningrad, their base was “inherited” from Kriegsmarine, the concrete hangars built in 1937..39 are now derelict to the point of being dangerous (not in the least because they are fully accessible to general public).
In Vladivostok there probably still are some traces of Beriev flying boats. There isn't a single airworthy Be-6 left (only four monuments, if not two by now). As for Be-12, there probably are nine or so of those currently listed as “in service” overall, and about the same number of monuments and museum pieces.
@@IgnatSolovey Thanks, I appreciate the reply. And a major correction. Pardon the senior moment - I meant Petropavlovsk, not Vladivostok! I did fly in and out of Vlad, but that was much later in a Gulfstream G5. Alaska Airlines had (still has?) a depot at Petro and we made our handling arrangements there through them.
@@IgnatSolovey Игнат..вы все напутали..Бе6 были сняты с вооружения в 67- 68 гг.На их место пришли Бе12..Одновременно, они не эксплуатировались никогда. А памятник Бе6 в России, всего один.Он находится в г.Североморск..в Кольском заливе на острове Большой грязный. Еще есть Бе6 в Киеве..в музее авиации в Жулянах...туда он был переаязен из окрестностей г.Евпатория в Крыму, где стоял на постаменте..Есть, еще памятник Бе6 в Китае, где эти машины эксплуатировались до 80 х годов..но, уже, доработанные..с ТВД..
As a channel dedicated to flying boats, I think Rex should’ve done a video on the Sea Duck from Talespin for April 1
Or the pirate's flying carrier
Just a suggestion, when trying to use war thunder footage black and white, maybe try to lower the FPS to make it look my authentic, maybe 30 fps or lower and see how that looks
All of that footage is 24 FPS, as per the standard of the time
I love how you used the Be-6 from War Thunder
Makes me wanna get it now knowing its History.
Looks a lot like the PBM Mariner
Please take into consideration a video all about the Blenheim or SBD Dauntless my favourite planes thank you for your time
Looks like a copy of the Martin pbm mariner
such a pretty plane
Looks a lot like a Martin Mariner.
There's a ship in the old Jango Fett game that looks surprisingly similar to this.
Well done!
01:43 Does that Pz. III have an extra stowage bin sitting on the engine deck?
-What a great detail for a 1/35 scale model!
The vehicles ahead have improvised extra stowage as well and they're all laden with gear.
Thanks, Rex! This photo is an easter egg if I've ever seen one!
Looks like some Ivans (???) surrendering in the near distance, as well . . .
Regards,
Kev
Thanks for this (as usual) well-researched and splendidly delivered report. I admire your choice of the almost forgotten Species of Flying Boats!
Looks very similar to the American PBM Mariner flying boat design in 1939 and flown in 1940
Both usena wing Design based on the work of Zygmunt Puławski
I lovebthe re-created flyingband landing footage via the use of warthunder. Took me a bit to determine ifbit was. The water splashing and smoke ended up being what gave it away.
Dear sir, thank you again for extending our vocabulary again with your priceless expressions of irony : self-disassembly, priceless!!
An interesting design. One of the most beautiful sea planes ever built was the Kawanishi H8K Emily. Can you do a study of that aircraft?
I‘d say the BV238 is even better looking
Agreed
DO 26
We need more flying boat content.
Thanks Rex, great job; growing up in Baltimore, MD, USA makes me a big fan of all flying boats. My dad worked for Glenn L Martin in the early 40s on the Martin PBM. Any chance you could cover the futuristic P6M Martin SeaMaster in a future episode?
Great insight into the development of much unknown Soviet Aircraft , I found this video quite fascinating as so little has been written in English . Thanks
It sure looks like a Martin Mars-sky to me.
Flying boats are by far my favorite type of aircraft and as such I have learned much about them over the years. Though I have to admit when it comes to soviet aircraft of this type, there is a massive void in my knowledge. Voids such as this exist to be filled, so a hearty thanks from me for this video.
addendum: Porco Rosso ftw.
Great video on great military flying boats.
Having said that, I believe…
The best flying boat in WW2 era:
Kawanishi HK2 “Type 2 Big Boat”
The best in today’s sky / at sea:
ShinMeiwa US-2 “STOL and Rough sea amphibious wonder”.
I enjoy seeing the filters over War Thunder and any other flight simulators you might use. It’d be nice to see some color versions though 😉
That said, I think we can all agree that genuine footage is always preferable.
Of course, it is only ever a substitute for when we don't have enough pictures or videos.
Great vid, Rex...👍
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
One of the most beautiful aircraft ever.
flashbacks to having to fight one of these in a spitfire 5 in war thunder... Shudder...
Gday from Australia.
My favorite flying boat.
What a gem of a channel ican’t believe I haven’t seen this before and had you in my recommended.
Love me flying boats, could you someday talk about some oddities form the interwar period?
It looks like a Martin Mariner.
Can you do a video on the saab 21? There is not a good video about it on yt yet
Very good looking plane by the way.
It looks a lot like the Martin Mariner
Nice video! The quality of the photos taken in the air is really good.
I enjoy your channel very much. As a teacher of English for refugees, your precise pronunciation of each word and the pause between each word is brilliant, outstanding and well done. I am Australian, there are so many accents throughout the world colonised by the British making English difficult to interpret. You sir are the standard. Perfect English, perfectly pronounced.
Kind regards
Nige
PS A failed teacher of refugees.
crazy how similar it looks to the martin pbm mariner
Got to give Beriev and co credit, they stuck with the flying boat longer than anyone. In fact, last time I checked, they're still making them.
They make a lot of sense in the USSR with long coast lines and some big rivers. And the modern ones makes quite capabel fire fighting planes
@@mbr5742 Makes sense for any country with a combination of the two frankly, not *just* the USSR. We could see them make a come back if a another major war happens.
Of course nobody in their right mind (and I am certainly no exception to this) would want a another war on such a global scale..
@@lafeelabriel They have civilian uses ie firefighting. That is why for example this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadair_CL-415
exists and new production is at least planned
@@mbr5742 There's also Beriev's own Albatross.
Looks a lot like the USN PBM Mariner flying boat.
This suprisingly looks like a Soviet version of the Mariner.
Change my mind.
But it's better
But its beter
@@mathewkelly9968 Objectively how?
@@stevewhite3424 More dakka and more kablooey
@@spaman7716 SeKreT dOKuMenTs
It has basically the same exact dimensions, same NACA wing, engines are copies of the Wright Cyclone, same gross weight...it's a straight up copy of the PBM Mariner.
It's funny looking at all this stuff, the Russian equipment almost always is heavier, lower power to weight, clunkier aero, but always have superior 'video game' stats on Wiki.
Looks like old Mariner
Why build a flying boat factory without a water source to launch and fly your flying boat from?
21:03 Love the authentic footage look you gave to the video
Great video and compilation! I have been to Gelendzhik during Gidroaviasalon in 2002 and saw the Be-12P "Chaika" flying formation with the Be-200, A-40 Albatros and Be-103 ( light twin - FAA certified ).
It is awesome they decided to preserve the last remaining large one for the museum!
I just discovered you, and am very pleased. This is a quality documentary.
This looks like it would fit in the world of Talespin and not look out of place
Thanks! Well researched and presented.
Impressive.
This design looks like they were HEAVILY influenced by the PBM Mariner.
The 4 bladed props and engine nacelles remind me of inverted B-29 engines.
Thank you very much Rex. This was an education for me in a plane I had no knowledge of consciously. I have probably seen its picture on several occasions without thinking too much about it despite my love for flying boats. I found this fascinating and your usual dry humour entertaining as always. Your research and information are always appreciated and trusted. Please do an effort on the Boomerang fighter (249 made - good ground attack aircraft - competed with a Spitfire in a couple of areas). When we were in our darkest hour (WWII) this and other Australian designed aircraft (possibly worth considering also) were developed in Australia when we had next to no history of such skills (correct me if I am wrong e.g. Lawrence Hargraves).
Aye! I was privileged to study architecture in the former Soviet Union as a foreign student and despite my insatiable hunger for any aviation enthusiast information regarding Soviet Aerospace aircraft / spacecraft - I genuinely never heard of this Seaplane. I was once privileged to see a Beriev A-50 “AWACS” fly over the Soviet city I was studying in one sunny afternoon. It was surprisingly low and you could clearly see the radome!
Jeffrey Sachs Interview - Tensions in Global Power
czcams.com/video/bko8TPk2YsA/video.html
Exceptional and, eventually, proven concept. If that design had been manufactured in the USA, Canada, France, the United Kingdom, or Germany it could have become a military aviation icon. I am the diametric opposite of an aviation engineer, but I had a few consultancy contracts with companies that were concerned by the poor transfer from concept to production of new products that were intended to beat up the competition. In every case tuning up the organisation of design and production processes and the relationship between the two departments brought full satisfaction to the top management of those clients, even though getting the most powerful of those most senior people to accept that they needed to invest time, resources and money to fully profit from their concepts was "challenging and delicate". I concede that might have been "rather more difficult" in the Soviet Union...
I remember when this plane was first released in War Thunder, iirc it was the only real medium bomber premium that the Soviets had at the time, so of course I used it to grind the entire first 4 tiers of the Russian tree (back when there were still only 5) and had a blast doing it. The autocannons it had tore planes to shreds back in the day and it was surprisingly nimble for its size. I always love learning about the planes or tanks I used to grind with in War Thunder, thanks Rex!
Friendly reminder that the game is heavily inspired by real life but is still not particularly realistic, and definitely not historically accurate. Trustworthy concrete performance data is extremely hard to come by, and even then gameplay considerations trump realism features.
@@michaelbuckers Tell me, what digital model accurately reflects reality and still remains a game suitable for entertainment and not only for work? Because I developed models in simulink/matlab, worked in an aviation design bureau, but still could only offer Il2 Shturmovik (or War Thunder, maded on its basis), for initial not boring familiarization with the world of combat aircraft of that era.
@@DartXL Those are mutually exclusive purely for the computational requirements reasons. Digital models take forever to solve even on lowest non-noise dominated accuracy settings, while video game code has grand total of 15 milliseconds to complete - for every single entity in the game combined, not per.
@@michaelbuckers Please don't confuse a mathematical model (a system of equations by which all the processes significantly affecting the result are developed) with a digital model, they are not the same thing. There is clearly a compromise between what you call "mutually exclusive concepts" - when the influence on the overall result of individual processes can be divided into essential and non-essential. Otherwise, the behavior of complex systems would not be calculated in advance still in the stage of mathematical model, be it the flight of an airplane, a projectile or a nuclear explosion, with acceptable accuracy. The only question is how accurate are the formulas and how qualified is the one who separates essential factors from nonessential ones, i.e. noise.
For further explanations, I refer you to the theory of limits, methods for solving systems of differential equations, the Laplace transform and the theory of control of automatic systems.
@@DartXL That's a surface level analysis that falls apart under surface level scrutiny. Suppose you have a complete wing aerodynamics equation, but it takes several minutes to compute. How are you even going to approach tossing out parts of it, exactly? Better yet, exactly how would you decide which parts are essential and which aren't? How would you know removing a certain part wouldn't cause extreme inaccuracy in certain scenarios? Not that it matters because it's not actually possible to derive a complete wing aerodynamics equation. So what you're saying is analogous to "just simplify your N-body solution, dude, not all of the terms are very significant".
The reality of it is that you either do a complete numerical simulation, or you just make up fake physics equations and pretend like it's fine because they're close enough (until they're not). I've personally spent a while, and I mean A WHILE trying to create speedboat forces simulation that isn't a FEM solver engine and none of it ever worked correctly, because fluid dynamics is a little more complicated than F = pav², by which I mean infinitely.