Why Robb Didn't Trade Sansa and Arya for Jaime Lannister 😢
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- Did you know in the books Robb didn't trade Jaime Lannister for Sansa and Arya because he was counting on the Baratheon brothers to take King's Landing? This short uses evidence from A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance with Dragons and The Winds of Winter.
A Game of Thrones theory explained, prepare for The Winds of Winter release date with a theory video of George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire book series and something to think about while waiting for HBO's House of the Dragon Season 2.
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He could’ve just sent a Raven to Balon without sending Theon. Giving Balon his heir back was a terrible mistake
In the books he didnt seem to see Theon as his son anymore
balon would have invaded the north either way, as by the time theon arrive, the greyjoys already preparing their armies and fleet to invade the north.
@@daffaramadaghifari6428 I don’t think he would’ve attacked while the Theon was with the Northerners because he decides to invade right when Theon gets home and not before
@@daffaramadaghifari6428he wouldnt have attacked winterfell- quite a difference
It was, but it was more of an act of misplaced trust and an overestimation of Balon’s competence as a politician. Balon however was also a moron for attacking the North without at least demanding a reward from Tywin first.
tbh the only one that wanted the girls back is only cat, all of Robb banners march to avenge ned
that is what im realizing now they were willing to lose sansa just to kill the lannisters.
@@officialyoungmarithe war was not about Sansa or Jaime. The main theatre was the Riverlands and Robb was King of the Riverlands,they had to defeat the Lannister in order to protect the Riverlands, Northern independence and to get Sansa and Arya back. But the girls were not that important from a military point of view
@@niccologregorutti9309 did you heard yourself? Military point a view?What about family? Honour? Justice? Sansa and Arya were little girls and not putting them as a priority is the same thing of saying “I don’t care about family”. If Ned was alive do you think he would care about destroying the Lannisters and revenge him or he would care more about his daughters? Putting the war first was a disgrace and its a dishonour to the memory of Ned Stark.
Also Robb wasn’t the king of riverlands, but the king of the North.
@@sofiavenancioaraujo5746 you are wrong about more or less everything you have written. Robb was King of the North and the Trident (North+Riverlands),the Lords of the Riverlands declared him their king, that's why Edmure Tully,Jason Mallister,Blackwood,Piper, Ryger and all the others refer to him as their king and do his bidding. Robb had the full responsibility of half of Westeros, it's obvious that Sansa and Arya were not the priority. The priority was to defeat Tywin Lannister and force him and the Iron Throne to ask for peace,so that Robb could get his sisters back and at the same time the North and the Riverlands could be freed from the yoke of the Iron Throne.
Jaime is a hundred times more valuable than Sansa,he is a legendary swordsman,he leads Lannister's armies,he is Tywin Lannister's firstborn son,the Warden of the East and the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. Sansa compared to him is almost insignificant,and since Robb has to fight a war, it's obvious that he could not just send Jaime back hoping that the Lannister would free Sansa. It would be shameful and without honour to do this exchange of prisoner,duty comes before love and Robb has half a continent on his shoulders,he cannot act egotistically
@@sofiavenancioaraujo5746 He is literally called king of the Trident, what do you thought the Trident was? a pronged spear?
Balon is such a dummy. Robb’s offer was such a good one. All he had to do was attack the western lands instead of the river lands and the north. Western lands also has more ports and are closer together making it easier to defend. They were already losing the war at this time and had many enemies with many front. Balons decision here really angered me…
It's perfectly within character to made such a bad descision for him. His own pride and refusal for alliances is costing any chance of winning this from the beginning.
And that is from a man who has his own people so loyal to him that they are willing to go to war for him again after losing so terribe the last time and he has so much war experience. The Ironborn are considered a gigantic threat with one of the biggest fleets in Westeros and extremly dangerous warriors and he's throwing his only possible alliance that would allow him to be king out the window.
@@TemariNaraannaschatzironworks aren't c0nsidered a gigantic threat.
They are considered a nuisance. They can't hold land, have less disciplined warriors. And generally their reading only bothers coastal villages in times of war.
This is why they get their shit pushed in in just about every war they fought
@@sudanemamimikiki1527 They are in the books. Just because they seem like a joke in the show and Balon has made terrible decisions does not mean that the Ironborn aren't a terribly destructive force.
Before House Targaryen came they also held the entire Riverlands on top of the Iron Islands.
They are primarily raiders, they have no reason to keep those castles in spaces too far away from the isles as that would only pose danger.
And if you think one of the three biggest navel forces of Westeros that is armed by people who are known to raid castles, abduct the people there and burn said castles down are considered "a nuisance" then you need to look again.
The single reason they aren't taken too much into consideration at the beginning is due to the facts that everyone else has more pressing matters at hand and that Balon gets killed before he becomes an actual thread.
@@TemariNaraannaschatz no they arent..
beating riverlands means nothing, they are canonically the weakest of the seven kingdoms and a punching bag for everybody else.
and yeah, their inability to hold land is one of the reasons why they arent as big of a threat. they can only harass some coastal villages until the other kingdoms kick them off.
the other one is because they keep making stupid mistakes through out the history. (not just baelon, their treatment of aegons conquest was also full of stupid)
having a big navy is nice, that navy being on the wrong side of the westeros and not able to effectively blockade naval trade and travel? not so great.
not having the supplies to stage long term naval invasions due to living on a rock in the middle of the sea? even less great
being so stupid you refuse to get allies that could help them cover for these flaws?
yeah thats just a joke..
nobody cares about balons claim because nobody cares about iron isles, they will harass the coastal land and steal some shit, then when the war is over the winner will just pull a baratheon and take all of that back once they put the old man back into his place.
@@TemariNaraannaschatz then bad ass Euron comes in and actually uses his brain and takes over the reach. I just don’t get Balons pride in attacking the north which is one of the most difficult places to control. Even the Starks have struggled maintaining the north in the past.
I will say one thing, the circumstances that Sansa was under were even more pressing than a normal hostage situation. Joffrey was beating and stripping Sansa in open fucking court, he could have taken it too far one day and killed her on a whim. So I can understand why at least Catelyn felt such an urge to get her daughters back.
I think Cat was more worried about what Cersei would do. She suspected her and her brothers of crippling Bran and then sending an assasin to finish the job.
Robb has a bad habit of having his mom do all the negotiating lol
Jaime's cousin who was sent to King's Landing was Cleos Frey, not Olton Lannister. Olton Lannister was only in the show and not in the books.
I don’t think Cleos was in the show at all. I would’ve liked to see him with Jamie and Brienne during their trip to kings landing. I also would’ve liked to see Brienne practically drowning Jamie when they got caught by Hoat and his gang lol.
She was right to warn him about balon Greyjoy
So, why didn't Robb trade Jaime for his sisters? You didn't answer this question.
i can answer it for u, its because it would be stupid to release on of the best swordsmen alive, a decent army leader and very important figure of house lannister, for 2 little girls that have literally no skills worth for a war
@@peterpanda4296 I know. I'm aware that not only did Robb have reservations, his bannermen never would have agreed to such a trade.
I wanted to point out that the clip maker never bothered to answer the question he posed. A question that was supposed to be the whole point of the clip.
@@MrBell-iq3sm ahh ok i thought u idnt know, but i agree the clip is stupid he didnt even get to the whole point
@@peterpanda4296 By the end of the war Robb regrets not doing it and I see why. Keeping Jamie did not help them in the battlefield at all. Having the Frey on their side would have been better than Holding on to Jamie.
@@peterpanda4296No, it just allowed their enemies the opportunity to lay claim to their ancestral home and lands through a forced marriage.
Maybe I just have a bad memory, but I just finished book two. Im pretty sure that letter Ned wrote never made it out of kings landing I think Cersei ripped it up infront of Ned. I also don't remember Rob coming to the realization that Jamie crippled Bran. There isn't any point of view chapters from Rob in book 1 or 2. Catelyn comes to the realization that Jamie crippled Bran when she's in river run and Robs not their at the time. Catelyn confronts Jamie about it, and Jamie admits to it befor3 she releases him. A dumb decision on her part but she is a mother and the only one concerned with getting Sansa and Arya back. It was like Rob already considered them lost forever.
Exactly, and the cousin they send to negotiate is Cleos Frey, I've never even heard of this Alton Lannister xD
She did
Yeah catelyn saved sansa but made death sentence for robb
@12randis Catelyns' decision to release Jamie did nothing to help save Sansa and Arya. Catelyn releasing Jamie definitely didn't help matters for Rob, but Rob lost the war when he married Jeyne. They both made mistakes, but it was Rob who made his own fatal mistakes in marrying Jeyne and sending Theon to Pyke that ultimately lost him the war. He also lost faith in the gods and distanced himself from Greywind after he lost Bran and Rickon. He was responsible for his own downfall.
One of the few times Cat was right.
In the books, she's right about quite a lot.
@@bryanburns9702i keep saying i don’t understand cat hate (except her disdain for jon). like even in the show if jaime didnt get released he would’ve been killed that night and who knows what they wouldve done to sansa. now if that is collateral damage that robb and the north is willing to take bc they jus want to kill the lannisters then i guess i see the hate. but if their goal was to actually try to save her. then cat was def right.
@@officialyoungmariAnd she's not even comfortable with her hatred of Jon. She knows the kid hasn't done antyrhing wrong, and feels a deep remorse for not being able to control herself around him.
@@officialyoungmarihonestly Sansa being collateral isn’t the worst thing in the world lol.
@@CMiY0 yea bc u weirdos hate a 13 year old
because while they may be emotionally valuable to Robb, holding Jaime is far more valuable to Robb than getting Sansa back.
Let's put aside the problem that the Lannisters don't have Arya anyway thus this deal would never happen and this is only the third biggest fuck up of the Cersei-Joff regime.
Ned for Jaime, sure that makes sense.
Sansa, Ned's bones, and IOU for Jaime. Laughter
Honestly it should go without explanation. Jaime is worth more in Many ways and gives them leverage over the Lannisters.
He's a strong warrior who almost destoryed rob(caused the karstark situation btw). Seen as head of the house after tywin by ned and tywin and so on.
Only way i can see trading to work is if sansa and arya would be married to other major houses like the vale and reach to gain those armies and returning jaime would be seen as a positive
Cat releasing jaime only led to more of her kids put in danger and this was after she let Tyrion go so cat failed at keeping both Lannisters in chains.
Agreed, Jaime was a monster both as a battlefield commander and as a warrior. He was too much of a threat to release. Now trading Jaime for Ned would have been an equal trade.
Cat's mistake ensured that Jamie wasn't killed by the karstarks on the following day.
@@Tereza641 rob wanted to keep Jaime alive despite being at the end of his blade if not for his army.
Cat didn't understand what it meant to lose a crown during a war being so narrow minded about the war.
If cat kept Tyrion and later they got Jaime. The war would basically be over as tywin would be out of males and we wouldn't get the chain situation giving stannis the win. No red wedding due to being at a stronger position and then rob could give up the crown after the main problem is done. Cat made things very bad with her actions that didn't give her what she wanted anyways.
@@ivanbluecool she is not narrow minded about her actions for her POVs show that she knows how risky and crazy that was, but she was also losing children and after bran and rickon's "death" despair/hope takes control. In many passages she hopes to be forgived by Rob, the Tullys, etc. Also, she didn't lost Tyrion, Lysa did. There's so much going on in her chapters; it is reductive to say she was dumb, especially in diplomacy and war, because for the most part she was right about many things, including Theon
@@ivanbluecool you could say, for example, that if Theon never reached Pyke, the war wouldn't be over by the end of the book.
That's cool and all, but it doesn't answer the question of why he didn't trade Jaime for his sisters at all. 😅
I think the Lannisters refused after learning the North's intention of becoming independent. Tywin likely considered a trade before the Northern Lords crowned Robb King of the North. This is why crowning Robb King of the North is a double-edged sword because it prevented Robb from gaining an ally with Stannis and other lords (enemies of House Lannister) truly loyal to the Crown and maintaining the status quo of the Seven Kingdoms. Martin did indirectly warn us about Northern pride and how it led to Ned and Robb's downfall.
Rob should have sent Catelyn back to Winterfell where she could have helped Bran. That's where she'd have caused the least harm.
She was trying to protect her daughters. And as if Robb didn’t cause harm, marrying that girl was selfish. At least Catelyn was trying to protect someone else.
He tried, at least in the books, but she insisted on staying South. Kinda understandable with her dying father there too.
@@sofiavenancioaraujo5746Well Robb was also very stupid. Honestly the combination of those two. It was a disaster. The hypocrisy and their high and mighty attitude.
Those two and their choices it's what led to the downfall of everything. Because of them several were killed and the North taken
@@sofiavenancioaraujo5746 She was a fool. Giving the Kingslayer for two girls? That's a stupid trade. And she was the one who made the bargain of his hand in marriage. And it was SHE who gave away the Kingslayer. As long as Jaime was held in Riverrun, there was no way the Lannisters could touch Robb. If the Red Wedding happened while the Tully's held Jaime, Jaime would also die. And Tywin knew that.
Also the Tullys are what fucked up Robb's plan to force Tywin to chase him into the West. If Edmund had stayed at Riverrun, if he'd made sure that Jaime was in the cells. Robb would have won his fight against the Lannisters. Now do I think he could have beaten Stannis and kept the North independent? Ehhhh unsure. But they might have been able to create an Alliance.
@@crazyscotsman9327sansa and arya are way more valuable in this situation, jamie is a skilled swordsman but there are a lot of skilled swordsman in westeros. And he’s a kingsguard, he cant inherit or have heir. Sansa and arya can secure political alliances by marriage especially coming from the biggest house in the north.
Also, catelyn didnt just let jamie go, she sent brienne with him and this leads to sansa’s rescue (it happened in the show and will happen in the book, brienne is already looking for her).
The red wedding happened mostly because robb’s not keeping his word to the freys and cat warned him about this.
In the end she was right about a lot of things
If only Balon saw the bigger picture and baratheon brothers were not having a battle of their own. Lannisters would have fallen like a pack of cards.
That’s a big problem for a lot of characters in the series. Robb should have negotiated an alliance with the tyrells to put him and Margery on the iron throne.
@@Phantom19913 that's another good idea but I guess the problem was experience. Robb had major skill issue with diplomacy.
Yeah, but Stannis would have been a horrible king and his wife a horrible queen. And Renly was so super gay he couldn't even perform the act to produce an heir.
@@apb38 Series only are you??
@@Phantom19913the Tyrells wouldnt back the Starks when Lannisters had all the advantage,
To answer: Jaime was too much of an objective to let him go for two little girls. He was practically considered a one-man army. It was planned to trade him and some other lesser captives for Ned, Arya and Sansa, but Ned was murdered and then the trade-off became too one sided. Plus Catelyn had let go of Tyrion just before the war, also losing an important captive.
For that reason, the trade conditions of each party couldn't be satisfied: not including Jaime in the trade-off for Sansa and Arya was unacceptable by the Lannisters, and including Jaime made the trade-off a disadvantage to the Starks. Robb decided to wait and search other alliances to strengthen his political and military influence ()which was already huge), so to force the Lannisters to accept a peace treaty that returned Jaime for Sansa, Arya and the independence of the North as a whole.
It didn't work out.
Because Catelyn went behind his back and committed treason sending Jaimie back when her king told her not to, for the third time starting a string of events that got her entire family killed. Catelyn is the reason Robb lost the war.
No
She was a part of. But Robb lost the war himself
Robb lost the war due to his own dubassery. Who tf breaks vows in war??Especially of the Freys?
Robb messed up his alliance with the Freys and killed Karstark rather than taking him hostage, and set Theon free which triggered a lot of negative events. Edmure disobeyed Robb's orders (admittedly Robb didn't inform him of his plan either) which could've made a crucial difference in Kingslanding by delaying Tywin's forces. Cat freed Jaime, who was easily their most valuable bargaining chip with Tywin Lannister. All 3 made crucial errors
“In season…” I’m out. The show is not canon, it’s fan fiction, and it’s terrible compared to the booksn
At least the show actually finished
@@Drakkonemusto be honest, the show should have started either at Robb’s Rebellion or Right before Summerhall
@@Drakkonemusthe show was not finished, instead, the audience was forced fed a piece of garbage down the throat.
After watching season 8, I felt like a goose that is being kept for foie gras ...
@@DrakkonemusI’d rather have nothing than something it is a rushed pile of shit with no care put into its end
@@RagnarNomadwell it was finished to me. was it a shitty way w some shitty dialogue to get there yea and i think 5-8 more episodes wouldve been good but the story actually rounds itself out.
That would be an uneven trade. That would be like the Red Sox trading Babe Ruth for say $125,000 to the Yankees. Oh wait, that is a bad example.
The better video of "do you know" ever. Its much better not ending with that "sooo" and yes with an information that closes the fragment told.
If it worked, Balon could have attacked Lannisport and Castely Rock while the North marches south and Renly and Stannis forces attack Kingslanding.
I love the way you speak, and your videos made me read the books "A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE" after finishing TV SHOW. I love your channel.
Soooo... why didn't Robb trade Sansa and Arya for Jaime? Why didn't you answer the question *you* chose to pose?
As I recall it, is's because Jaime as a warleader is worth far more than Sansa and Arya as mere girls. And also Cersei doesn't have Arya, which is a problem on her end in this trade.
Robb: Ty, Ty, Ty, you kind if I call you Ty? Tell ya what, my father and a second round pick for Jaime. Fair? I thinks fair.
Lord Tywin: And the girls?
Robb: For five coppers and a ham sandwich you can keep the lot of 'em. I'll evn throw in my mother.
I'm not sure why he thought the Greyjoys would help. Balon would never thoses who destroyed his Rebellion. And giving him his son back was so stupid.
I wish he could have just sent an instruction or request to Balon to attack the westerlands...that would have made typing to retreat
it’s good they didn’t trade bc both the girls def would have died at the red wedding
They did take plenty prisoners, they only needed Robb dead, everyone else was casulties, they wanted more hostages and never planned on killing Catelyn even.
So they would have likely become hostages and married off against their will. Not that that is any better. Arya was already engaged to a Frey.
Would the Red Wedding even still have happened? It seems to me that this depended on a *lot* of factors.
@@TV-ge3uj The red wedding came to be because Robb didn't marry Walder Freys daughter and Roose Bolton didn't like Robbs decision to send Theon to Pyke. So it would have happend.
@@TemariNaraannaschatz This exchange could have been used to freeze the conflict, and there would have been no more need to gain the Ironborn as allies. No Theon to Pyke -> no occupied Winterfell -> no assumptions about Bran and Rickon being dead. Also, no execution of Rickard Karstark if the exchange had happened before his sons were killed.
@@TV-ge3uj Theon was already in Winterfell when this happend. Robb thought Bran and Rickon were dead, he found out while Jeyne was nursing him back to health.
Same with Rickard Karstarks execution. Happend after Theon was send to Pyke.
Makes sense giveb that he and Cat might have been the two people who could have talked Robb out of those descisions.
And they needed alliances, especially with Renlys death.
Honestly between Lysa, Cat and Edmure the Tullys earned losing place among the great houses.
Catelyn was wise and cunning. She made mistakes, but a lot of her advice was sound. Edmure is brave and has a good heart. He's a better person than Ned tbh. Lysa... is Lysa. All I can say is that she was pretty when she was younger. There's also Hoster Tully and the Blackfish who are pretty competent at what they do.
@@CatotheE Why do you think Edmure is a better person than Ned? We hardly saw him.
Well tbh the Tullys were always the lesser renowned of the Great Houses. The only time the Tullys mattered or were considered to be influential was during the Dance with Kermit and Oscar. The rest were all just footnotes in history. As a side note, Hoster is a piece of shit, and the Blackfish deserves better than all of this.
The answer being “seeing the bigger picture”😭😭😭
Robb may have been a good-hearted one, but still, his actions were idiotic and cost him his very heart
A lot of incorrect info here. Robb told Catelyn many times to return to WT, to her abandoned children yet she resused, inserting herself in the war. Robb already had plans with Stanis but allowed Cat to go to Renly on a fake mission just to get rid of her.
Imagine if Balon dead and Asha leading the ironborn that time
Asha wouldn't have been leading the Ironborn at that time. t would have been Theon.
@@CatotheE but will they follow Theon though. As far as they consider, Theon is out of touch with his people and their ways. As such if Theon were to become a Lord, it would be a Greenland ward and not an iron prince.
As for Yara she grew and proved herself as a good leader and ruler by their standards. Also even if Balon were to die early, Robert and Ned wouldn't let Theo return home, and instead they'll have someone like Rodrick Harlaw to be the regent. And if Balon were to die Euron would try to ascertain power, both Asha and Aeron had to figure something out. Thus she must become the leader, given the possibility of Theon dying in the North, either under the orders of the crown or by Euron's machinations
@@praveenloganathan7495 Yes. Theon had support on the Iron Islands. Even in the show, Yara needed his support. In the books it was even worse. Theon doesn't need a regent ad wouldn't have one. He's 19 by the start of the series. Theon might die in the north as it is, but we're talking about before he was destroyed physically and mentally.
Robb was such a a bad ass. So sad he was lost so early in the series.
One never trust a Greyjoy.
Second to answer the question It would be absolutely stupid to trade Jaime for Arya and Sansa. Jaime Lannister is a fantastic battle commander, and probably the deadliest man in the Seven Kingdoms. With like 4 people being in his tier. The Mountain, the Hound, Oberyn and maybe Bron? Jaime is a menace on the battlefield, and could not be released until the war was completely over, every term met and Rob's borders resecured. Because otherwise he'd have to fight Jaime again. And Jaime learns from his mistakes.
Sansa and Arya wouldn't be useful until after the war is over. To marry powerful lords and secure those ties.
Honestly, there was a bit of clunkiness in the source material and in the show about a lot of goings on in the series.
The Baratheon's could have easily teamed up and formed an alliance with Robb. As for Theon betraying Robb, that always felt it came out of left field.
Stannis sees Robb as a traitor for calling himself a king
I must disagree. Stannis was always rigid and inflexible. He never would've allied with Robb after the North broke off from the Seven Kingdoms. And he sure as hell wouldn't have allied with Renly after he declared himself king. Renly and Robb's alliance may have worked though, if Renly hadn't died.
Also, Theon's betrayal wasn't that surprising. He was raised as a hostage, who could've been executed at any time by Ned if Balon stepped over the line. That constant fear for your life isn't exactly conducive to cultivating feelings of friendship and loyalty. Also, Theon was an outsider in Winterfell, given little to no respect even though he was the heir to a Great House. Constantly in Robb's shadow, just like Jon. So given a chance to prove himself to his father and the Ironborn, of course he would take it.
@@sushmitaraodesaraju6330 Theon got no respect????
@@fazediamond5671 Well he wasn't outright disrespected, but he also wasn't treated as the heir to a Great House would be. Part of it could be because he was Ironborn, who are pretty much hated by most of Westeros.
Theon greyjoy anit shit "That always felt like it came out of left field" 😂😂😂 no cap
I never understood Balom not joining the alliance, had they demanded independence as well. The two kings would have easily won.
Because that's his character. He's egotisitcal, proud, doesn't want any help and is insanely confident in himself.
Is is a bad decision to attack the one Kingdom willing to ally with him and give him his crown? Obviously yes. But it's perfectly within his character to disagree and refuse help
@@TemariNaraannaschatz yeah sure but he could have also looked at it as an opportunity to force recognition of their indepence and raid literally every (way more rich) kingdom to the south with backing from the north. I understand his charachter isn't the helpful kr strategic kind, but this was just plain stupid.
@@mlgmeistros4278 Well if we all acted like completly different people, we'd also make smarter decisions. And Balons ego stays consistent and so does with stupid decision making. 😁
@@TemariNaraannaschatz "Give him his crown." That was arrogant of Robb. He doesn't even have the means of giving Balon a crown and he was asking for help.
That doesn't explain why Robb didn't trade Jamie for his sisters.
At least Pull one or two teeth of jaime before sending Him back to kings landing
Heres what i would've done, secure an alliance with the Vale secure an alliance with Stannis(i imagine Renly's death would've happened anyway so...), boom naval superiority and numbers to rival the Lannisters in open combat, once Stannis get Renly's army you got the numbers to lay siege to King's Landing
-Cat tried to get an alliance with the Vale, Lysa declined, they couldn't have forced it
-Stannis also declined an alliance, because he was against the northern Independance, something the northern Lords rallied behind Robb for
-Robb won in open combat against the Lannisters every battle he planned, Tywin had to make the plans with the Freys because Robb destroyed him on the battle field at 15
@@TemariNaraannaschatz Lysa would believe any lie she hears, she believed Litterfinger loved her. Convincing her the Lannisters wanted to kill her and her son could possibly work.
Revenge is something Robb and Stannis both want, Robb for his father's murder, and Stannis for the throne being stolen, if they won Stannis would probably give Joffery over to Robb, if Stannis played the long game siding with Robb would've almost assured victory, now granted Northern independence would still be a problem but I imagine Stannis wouldn't have trouble there.
Robb was practically winning by avoiding Tywin's main force taking on smaller armies and such, getting the Knights of the Vale would give Robb the numbers and strength to confidentialy face Tywin directly.
@@lukethegoldenminecart1297 Lysa made it very clear that she didn't want to go to war. As long as the Vale kept out of it she and Sweet Robin were perfectly save in the Eerie. And it's not that she belives everything, she just believes LFs manipulations.
Stannis made it clear to Robb that he didn't want an alliance and would never grant indepenance, which the North did not accept.
And why would Robb face Tywin directly, that would be insane, also the entire army is never in the same place to begin wtih, because if you'd do that you'd get your castles taken and would need to leave everything you have unprotected for any enemies to take.
This is all in the books btw. They tried for more alliances, there were very clear reasons why they did not get allied with Lysa and Stannis.
if sansa ran away with hound, they could have killed jaime and gotten away w it
That wast the best dession!
Imagine how great things would have been without Balon and Renly
Animated Jaime looks like edge 🤣
If they were smart they would trade jaime but give him slow acting poison before the trade was made
Where are these got comics?
Probably in the libraries. The art for ACOK is excellent.
Cleos frey*
To be fair Theon does ask his father to join Robb and go raid the Westerlands, it’s only after Balon straight up bullies his son by calling him a sellout and a stark bitchboy that he betrays Robb and goes to sack winterfell (I despise Balon, if he wasn’t such a dumbass he would’ve literally been one of the main players in the Game and Theon would’ve never met Ramsey).
Um, didn't Robb send Cleos Frey with terms? Still Jamie's cousin, but definitely a Frey
Why didnt Robb try to stablish an alliance with Dorne?
because what proud child would not want to take revenge on bastards for wrongfully butchering their father
The north needs to be part of the 7 kingdom's as the north is where the threat will start for all the 7 kingdom's to work together ❄️🔥👑🐲🐲🐲🐺 🌬❄️
Can bearley hear you... come on!
He also asked for his fathers sword 🗡️
Make the exchange , but sent Jamie handless 😂
Or give Alton in exchange for Sansa , Arya is not with them
He shouldnt have trusted either of them.
the titles of your reels never match the content, I feel tricked every time I watch them
He didn't because he couldn't the north would have abanded him and Jamie is to important for the other side and the canisters would have not killed the girls they were the keys to the North after or later on during the war he just couldn't do it and as bad as Jimmy is his brother was a scumbag and horrible to him the whole time he used and sabotaged his brother the whole time he was alive and chucks crazy crybaby two faced sociopath got what he deserved he ran everyone off that cared about him the actor is great because bye episode I didn't thing I liked him by the time he told Jimmy he never loved him and tried to ruin his own business to spit is ex partern but would to help and team up with his brother what an all around terrible brother I could have never been that shity to my sister's or my brother who was my best friend in the world god rest his soul
I feel for Robb, he had his boss moments when it came to battles but in anything else he was basically a hostage of his god awful lords (except Greatjon) and then of the westerlyns and fucking jeyne.
I think this was a very racist thing that the officer did and should be taken to the international court
What’s with this title lol
❤❤❤
He should have tried to see if he could get Sansa for Jamie
not worth the trade.
The north would never forget that... Sansa for neds dead bone and one sister while the other is assumed dead... Stop
@@blabla187What did Sansa donto betray them twice? Im only at the part where Robert asks Ned to be his hand in the books and in the show the only thing Sansa does is write a scroll to Robb by force
@@rosita3528 She doesn't really. The only minor exception is when she tells the Queen how Ned was planning to get them out of Kings Landing before he moved. She didn't go to Robert, because she thought he'd just send her back to her father and she wanted to stay in the capital. The rest was Ned's fault.
@@CatotheEthat was also mostly ned’s fault really. Ned told arya that the lannisters are dangerous but he never had this conversation with sansa. And cersei gave her more attention than ned which is why she’s too comfy with the queen.
Also let’s not forget that ned literally told cersei to her face that he will tell the king about her darkest secret and tell her to run away as if she wouldn’t retaliate 😂
He should have made it clear that NO ONE is allowed to talk with Jamie....Not even my own mother. When you're playing the game of thrones you have to make simple directions idiot proof. Not only did he lose Jamie (trump card) but he also lost half of his army because of it. He should have never beheaded Lord Karstark.
Beheading Karstark was inevitable though. What he did to the Lannister boys was not only wrong, it also cost Robb his last bargaining chips. I think he should've paid attention to how willful his mom was especially after she kidnapped Tyrion on a whim.
Rob didn't trade Sansa and Arya for Jamie simply because he didn't value them. He let being king go to his head. All his mistakes were made because he let being king go to his head.
No because they aren't in the same tier of value as Jaime is. Robb was willing to trade other high nobles for his sisters. But Jaime was far too dangerous to be let go for a pair of girls. Jaime Lannister is one of the deadliest warriors in the Realms, one of the best battle commanders. Arya and Sansa are a pair of young girls who can't do shit.
And he only made a few mistakes. 1) He let his mother negotiate with Walder Frey. 2) He married the noble woman from the Westerlands. Everything else that happened was the Tully's fault. Robb wanted to lure Tywin after him into the Westerlands. Edmure stopped it. Robb wanted to keep Jaime as a hostage for their own safety and his mother released him. Without those two mistakes by the Tullys Robb would have won.
If Tywin chased Robb into the Westlands, King's Landing would have fallen. If Jaime hadn't been released there would be no way the Freys or the Lannisters would have dared to kill Robb. If Robb was captured in battle or at the Red Wedding while Jaime was in Tully hands they could have traded Jaime for Robb. If they killed Robb Jaime dies. Tywin, and Tyrion both made note of this in the books.
What is wrong with you? You never explained why