OLD League of Legends Was Flawed, But More Interesting
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- čas přidán 15. 12. 2022
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Today, let's talk about old league of legends. Even though I am a fan of the new rune planner that came out with league of legends patch 12.23... and using keystones like first strike, electrocute, and lethal tempo... I can't help but remember how cool the old league of legends runes were! This video was written, produced, edited, and voiced by Kellen (Exil)
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STOP USING THE WORD "OBJECTIVELY" ON SOMETHING THAT IS SUBJECTIVE!!!!
Im a mage and going against an assasin, lets take riots dogshit implemented rune cooki cutter bs. oh im 0/10 after 5 minutes, nice thanks riot games for creating more robots that dont think for themselves. actually insane that these templates even exist, i have itempages and runepages against different matchups and teamcomps. riots item recommendation are 90% of the time complete trash and results in a loss. i rather have lesser playerbase and harder to enter game than this current shitshow. absolutely blows my mind, how the game is evolving into dumped down clownfiesta.
@@adamsterdam9049 The fuck ya smoking? You're talking about the video?
I remember masteries... i miss thoes
How does repeat make money?
If their argument was that runes were too expensive and yes, they were, they could have just made them free for everyone.
Yep, lol.
imho, the problem wasnt the cost, but the new player experience. you dont even know what lane, let alone champions, let alone build on that champ feels best, and on top of that, you need to assemble an entire page of stats you dont even understand for a role/champ you dont yet understand. it makes it confusing for new players, and a confused new player will just quit.
@@junkiesrobot nah they cost too much.
I was literally weaker because I didn't have ruins so I am forced to stick to a champion.
Riot can’t use their brains
The old system would have been very daunting with the amount of different champions multiplied by the possible rune combos. Simplifying it was the right thing to do. I wasn't a fan of the old system and I still dislike the fact that additional pages have to be bought. That's something that really should be free.
There was like a 3 month period when runes reforged was announced that riot made all runes only cost 1 ip in the shop, it was so fun to mess around with the runes during that time without having to deal with the costs. That was probably my most favorite time to theorycraft and experiment with the game. While I agree that buying the runes was ridiculous, part of me really misses what fun stuff you could make with them. Especially the cheeky 1% crit rune that I put on every page
1% crit goated rune
I once tried full hp regeneration Nasus because he already had a lot of base hp reg and I ended up with 10hp regeneration per second xD
Free early game to stack
When they announced this cost reduction to 1EP, me and my friend bought all the runes so that we can get the full refund of EP when they were removed. So we basically hoped that we get back 100-1000x the value back of what we spent. Until no refunds arrived and we checked on a small foot note of the announcement that the reduced cost runes are not refunded at all. We lost several thousand EP thinking we have found a loophole
@@adrianbyg5553 I remember doing HP regen tank Himer back when his passive gave regen to nearby allies(and his base was equal to that amount).
I actually forgot about this, but now that you mention it. I remember absolutely LOVING this as well.
This is literally my biggest issue with all of League, it has hundreds of problems, but it feels like I'm doing the same few runes every single game.
Dude, some pages are so normalized, especially for junglers, that taking the exact same page every single game is fine and probably best.
If you play Lee Sin jungle, Conq - Triumph - Alacrity - Last Stand | Boots - Cosmic
The ONLY thing that you swap is which Legend rune if they have a ton of CC, you can pick tenacity. Realistically, you can change ONE rune. The rest or more or less completely standardized... It's SO lame.
Same runes, same items, same champs i every position even hybrid champs are dying out.
@@Exil22 But what if I'm lethality leesin enjoyer? Then I pick electrocute. But here is another point you actually completely missed. Riot wanted runes to define playstyle. But actually its ITEMS that define it, and rune choice is just pairing for the build, thus getting back to the only correct option for a build you go. (Think AP shaco: hail of blades? No, Comet/dark harvest? yeah. AD shaco: Comet/DH? nah, HOB? Hell yeah. So you have to decide before game what build you'll go, giving you actually no choice in game.)
@@Exil22 Honestly I hate magical footwear on junglers, it makes you so slow to gank and clear early in the game. When I play Lee I usually go eyeball + ultimate hunter (cuz I like kicking but relentless is probably better). I am a semi pro/coach and there is actually so many valid runes for champions that I never see players use. When I play support I refuse to use guardian cause I think it is the worst keystone by far, it's waaay too nerfed. So when I play Braum for example I use hail of blades, because it makes sense.
That sounds like a you problem
SIV HD made one video using only crit dmg runes for Ashe. Her old passive was that she increased her crit chance when out of combat and this would eventually guarantee critical strike when attacking and it hit like a truck. This is one example where the old system let you think out of the box which was cool. I miss this aspect of League.
Dude I was talking about this exact thing the other day.. Good times
this aspect, thats the whole game sadly ,thats why the game exists
He also had a vid where he took all the passive gold/xp income runes and played karthus without ever leaving base, only contributing with his ult
Bruh the 1% crit was literally a lane maker.
SivHD was the fucking goat. Made me realized how fun the game could be when going off roads. RIP old LoL miss ya
God I miss making really weird runes such as gold runes to get build faster, 1% crit chance runes for funny moments, having mana regen and mana runes to have no mana problems, going huge scaling tank runes, and yes I miss the - death timer runes too lol. It really made be able to customize your character for their weaknesses or for your builds
INTING SION 10K HP DEATH TIMER REDUCTION RUNES HUGE SPLIT PUSH MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS
Scaling CDR runes were so goofy I loved it.
@@Exil22 hahahaha so true. Great video. You really nailed the difference between runes now and back then. I somewhat miss it but hopefully they can adjust or fix it one day to be not like your shooting yourself in the foot not going certain options
yeah pretty sure all og players miss it, I remember there was ways to set your runes like part armor pen part ad and you would only lose like 2.5ad but gain like 5-6 armor pen was like 7 ad 5 armor pen instead of the usual 9 flat ad most people rocked (numbers might not be exact but you know) was things like that that I really loved, being able to min max your builds as you said
I miss having 3 quintesses of Move Speed on Kayle. I don't have any dashes, I need all of the MS
A friend of mine only had one single runepage and it was FULL attackspeed on everything. It was around 47% or something. On every single champ he played. Just because he liked attacking fast on his TF/Kennen Midlane. Boy, those were the good league days.. :D
It was 35% and it was decent for jungling though I usually used armor on yellow because the jungle actually hurt.
I had a buddy running a full +22 AD page. It as wild.
I remember CZcamsrs making videos about the full CDR Zac rune setup a high ELO solo queue player had. Super unconventional idea that they created to fit their style of playing Zac
@@RisingPhoenix05 have you seen the crit damage page? Adcs truly used to do damage. Old i.e. did 250% crits I think with runes it got up to like 280%
Ah yes, with Master Yi!
Runes wanted to be a choice
Now have become a predetermined necessity
Facts my friend
@@Exil22 I know mobile mobas are considered a joke, but a game called aov has a rune page which has much much more choice expression and is 90% of what old league masteries look like. Now I know they took it from league but since I've been playing the game for a long time, I really appreciate the ability to play to my style
well yeah...either you can get runes with little to zero impact so "choice whatever you want, it's your style, dude" or you get rune with real impact but now you have to take the good ones or you'r trolling.
at the end its the same, choice but runes are meaningless or no choice but runes have more impact.
um no you play a person against a person with tier three runes and you didnt you just lost. that simple.
@@freezymuchroom shh LeT pEoPlE eNjOy ThInGs
I loved the old runes. It's more fun than the current one. It broke my heart after runes reforged.
Sad
how is it more fun? its just stats, no ?
@@user-np6ol2vw4q you have to play 1%crit renekton it's so stupid xD
@@user-np6ol2vw4q It is stats that you could really customise and there were diminishing returns too. You could go full ad and have like 95 ad lvl1 on some champs, but the wring colour runes gave much lower stats, so yellow runes gave much less ad, but much more armour. This mean that while full YOLO ad was a thing, it had drawabacks, yet it was not troll. Then you had the masteries, which were actual small passives, 30 of them (a typical build could be 21/0/9). Some gave a little attack speed after a crit, others armour pen from behind, etc.. It was not big, but it was noticeable.
Old Sion could come and flex well over 100 ad lvl 1, but that meant he had no spells and lost a bit of HP every hit. He had a toogle, which was ad at the cost of HP per hit and when it was active, killing things gave max HP, it went all the way up to like 55 AD I think, starting at 35, while other champs that had similar things, like Fiora, would go from 15 to 35. In the same way, you could see mana regen, mana, ap or cdr pages on Cassiopeia or just a mix, all were really common.
@@user-np6ol2vw4q isn't the current runes also stats but just with cooldown no? Tasteofblood -- lifesteal/omni w/ CD, Cheapshot -- damage w/ CD, Electrocute -- damage w/ CD; D. Harvest - damage w/ CD, Conqueror -- dmg & heal on combat.
What's Riot's PR just did was sleight of hand or misdirection, it's essentially the same thing, it's like saying Lux Q or Morgana Q are different against a low HP ADC, but if either one lands, is a dead adc.
Old runes were much more enjoyable and fun to mess with. Like you said nowadays runes are essentially glued to characters
Used to be like a tech tree
Now it's just your passive
Old runes are also just boring as hell. If you’re supports, you take gold/5 runes. If youre AD, you take AD runes with 1% crit. It’s not like people really experiment and shit with old runes. On top of that, old runes are pretty weak, they became irrelevant as soon as you hit 15-20 min mark. Old runes were just for laning phase.
imo the old runes were confusing and felt like there was no *good* choices. I personally prefer having a good safe choice on a champion so I can learn the actual champion and not worry about how minute bonuses might work out on them.
@@Aliens1337 You had scaling runes as well for the late-game builds.
@@Skarfar90 Yep, I often used either scaling MR or CDR on glyphs which would give you either 28 MR og 10% CDR which was quite substantial.
Having watched this I now realise how much I miss the old masteries. Even though I don't play ranked I still feel each champ I play I'm forced onto 1 or 2 keystones or else I'm doomed to have a horrible game. And anytime the client freezes and I can't fully edit my masteries feels like it might as well be GG before the game has even loaded
Also community got sweaty af and punishes so hard.
A fusion of the old and new system does sound like it would be nice. The keystones are a staple to modern league and I think those should be here to stay. That was a great innovation to the rune system. As for the small runes, I think the old system where you could spec into smaller benefits and how much you benefit from them to your own choosing sounds neat.
Most of thesse are just the old one renamed electrocute= thunderlord
Phase rush=cunning strike as an example
they keystones carry like 40% of the champs power. they are an abomination.
@@Senumunu Yeah, I think that if they reduce their impact then the keystones could stay and be nicer
If keystones were weaker they'd be neater, I think ones like Lethal Tempo can really make already subtle classes like ADC feel a bit samey. Similar issue with overtuned Mythics, all the tank players were just building funny DPS circle and walking at you to deal more damage than their kit. Kind of goofy.
But what’s the point of the keystones if every champ has one maybe two options? Just don’t include them and add more things that have real value
Damn I do really miss old school League. The fact that everything feels so mandatory now with runes has been bothering me for a while. I used to love playing around with my rune and mastery pages to figure out cool new mini tweaks to my strategy.
Yep. No more customization
Items too. Very few Champions really have a choice in their mythic (first item).
Not only masteries, but items as well.
Going back to the Runes Reforged, I remember how they said that they wanted to add 4-5 runes on every tree and tier as time went on, but after changing out Ultimate Hunter from a tree to another, and adding only 2 big new runes (Conqueror and Hail of blades) and the hellfest that was Klepto, no great aditions have been made to the system to expand the playstyle even more.
I thought Omnistone was really fun and cool, but of course only few players used it so it got scrapped. I wish I could still run it
Sadly the greedy fucks are never gonna do anything new cause that just doesn't make money
LoL I'd like a PC optimized mobile game. Took away all the actives, most characters are really simple and overloaded. Runes are boring everyone has infinite sustain. I do enjoy lol as a twitch arcade fighting game but I will always appreciate the early Dota like path.
@@coldresin Omnistone was a cool idea but the way they implemented it didnt really work out.
Say you were a champion who could benefit from all things Omnistone had to offer. Lets say Aphelios. Maybe you get into a fight with a tank and what you want is Lethal Tempo to procc so you can auto more, too bad that the enemy is below 50%HP so you get dark harvest on the tank, skadoosh youre kinda useless in the fight now.
Imagine how useless unsealed spellbook would be if instead of letting you choose your next summoner spell, it would just randomly give you one. Maybe youre a Nasus and you want to fight an Aatrox. Exhaust or Ignite work really well for that, right? Whoop too bad, you get a smite. Better luck next time. Oh, theyre trying to take drake on the other side of the map? Maybe you can try to TP in- nope, you get a Clease. Oh well.
Nobody would use the rune. I mean, even fewer would use it and there are already very few champs who can actually "give up" a keystone for some spell variety.
@@coldresin Omnistone should have been reworked as a scaling rune that rewards general mastery of the entire rune system. Like, every time you successfully use a rune, you get a stack. At certain stack numbers, you get increasingly more buffed versions of whatever random rune you get.
I remember you were able to have Candy Cane runes. Login animations with amazing music. Themed events like Christmas and Halloween. The new League doesn't offer that anymore.
Yeah, how lame
The Odyssey and dark star events were so much fun. It's so sad we just get urf and one for all now :/ yes, they are fun but by now they've become stale. Even ascension was a fun variation.
And they also removed any kind of variety of regular modes too, I really miss dominion and twisted treeline, I had so many 3v3 matches with my friends; we rarely are 10 people but we are often 6 so one has to step down now.
@@buwumet Only Smite is left standing for 3v3 and allow their other classic modes. Riot should of upgraded League to 3D to avoid removing everything but Wild Rift will continue to cash cow mobile phones.
Nothing has replaced with that, just removed for whatever reasons. I want to hear from a riot employee what they think about this. Also i wanna discus with them in reallife. It makes me so angry and so sad what they did with the game. But as you saw with the girl :"we don't think our champions are overloaded overall'' This is exactly the definition of out of touch with the players
What I also loved about the masteries is that you had points to spent. Technically could get a little bit of every mastery but also, what most people did, is max out on one mastery. The idea that one effect has multiple tiers gave me excitement.
Climbing with a unique mastery page always made me feel like I was taking a champion to a new level with item synergy. I still remember the excitement I had one season where owner during the lcs finals played one of my pages. I felt my own dedication and gave me so much confidence too. Like wow I ended up with the same idea as this professional, I must have good ideas and this confidence extended into my life
I miss being able to experiment with runes and items. Back in the day ravenous hydra for example had a passive where “50% of lifesteal applies to the cleave passive” but if you stacked hydra’s, that passive would stack.
So for example if you took 4 ravenous hydra’s, then 200% (50 x 4) of your lifesteal would apply to the cleave procs. So if you had 100% lifesteal, 200% of that lifesteal would apply towards the cleave proc. Kind of weird and hard to explain but my point is you could do fun weird builds in the past but over time riot has tried to pigeonhole people more and more. Theorycrafting and experimenting is looked down upon by riot
@@boomynote that was also the time where you could experiment wwith hydra, if you din't like the lifesteal, you could switch to titanic hydra without extra cost.
man, i havent thought of Runes and Masteries in years! its bringing back memories of using my flat attack speed rune page on Master Yi that just gave 41% attack speed at the start of the game lmao
LOL
I'll never forget my mana regen setup for Jayce, would never leave lane and just spam Q until the enemy died or backed. This video is so correct, the old runes and masteries were really a way to accent a playstyle, as opposed to the current ones which may as well be part of your champion.
I did something similar with old ziggs, it waas fun to eternal farm from a safe distance, no kata or any other champ could get closer with pushing hard which always gave oprtunities to my jungle to gank, that's how I used to win mid lane easily.
The biggest problem I had with the old runes/mastery was that it was nearly impossible to jungle without a full page. Warwick was basically the only champ that doesn't die during his first clear.
It was a design philosophy of its time. I remember leveling up a support or a ganker by helping them clear golems, because that one camp gives enough exp to level up.
Other parts of jungle emphasize it as a utility and not another lane for play.
@@youngthinker1 in S3, I think jungle was already becoming a role. Hunter machete or some other jungle item already existed. Kha’zix and some other champs had their numbers adjusted to fit in the jungle but they get executed without a full page.
@@StarAZ I played from beta to season 2.
Jungle camps were seen as difficult things to tackle and kill lanes were the norm. Plus the camps gave experience to everyone nearby.
Nunu was another one season 1 jungler that didn't die first clear.
@@teflonpete makes sense. I just remember struggling a lot when I wanted to pick up Kha jungle before having a full page.
i remember in the first mastery trees was a rune that made your auto attacks deal a 5% of your AP as magic damage. that helped a lot ot push as a mage and with kayle it was a lot of extra damage
More and more I'm wanting a "classic" version of league, maybe season 3 or 4. Even if you personally wouldn't like it, it could allow riot to see some of the old features people actually enjoy and should be brought back.
Multiple groups tried to, but Riot made them shutdown
There was a team of fans working on exactly that. It would have probably been out by now except riot threatened to sue them and shut it down...
I want to play Old Aatrox again. 🥲
@@namishusband818 Me too bro, me too 😔
Season 2 was most enjoyable to me, but S3 is probably what it should be for a legacy League. Just fix a few of the issues like DFG.
Man I miss OG league. Still waiting for someone to make a private server
There was private servers twice but riot shut them down, keep your expectations low I'd say
Yep, Riot shut it down.
Rito is so afraid of old league they know those servers would kill the new shitty league
I remember I made a page of full armour resistance runes and use it whenever I laned up against Zedd with Gangplank mid, Zedd did literally no damage to me in the laning phase. This was a hella of fun from my good old memory...
That's the music artist, man.
Honestly I fully agree, the current keystones are interesting enough (though still a bit too champion specific imo) but the old passive trees were SO much more fun, dynamic, and interesting. I loved spending time thinking how best to use a certain champ back in the day, thinking through exactly what path made sense to get exactly the tree I wanted. Trying to get down to the keystones, picking and choosing between 1 full tree and 1 half tree, or splitting down 3, or hard filling 1 tree and only a few points into another: it just had so much player agency and skill expression.
You could actually be rewarded for creativity, instead of punished for it. You might be using something your enemy couldnt predict and get an advantage that way, or end up using exactly the wrong thing for the current matchup and be punished for it, but it was all due to your own playstyle and choices. With the current system, everyone already knows what youre doing because your character likely only does 1 or 2 things tops. There is no such thing as surprise factor: you are either doing it "right", or you fucked up.
Accidentally taking the wrong rune page on my champ because I switch champs and forgot to change my rune page shouldn't feel like an "Oh, this is a loss, guess I wont try to hard" moment
Aww the warm nostalgia feeling of those old mastery pages
I think double edged would illuminate your point the best. Can't remember the exact number, but it lets you deal a few percent more damage at the cost of taking a few percent more damage.
Also the runes are a little more interesting than what you gave it credit for, for two main reasons. For one, you can take stat per level runes that in general scales to 3x the stats given by a flat stats rune. For another, different color runs has different efficiency on different stats, forcing you to either spread out a bit to enjoy the most stats, or give up a little total stats for being focused on the stat you want the most.
e.g. you can get 15% CDR per level runes, something like 9 flat AP, or about 12 flat magic resist from the blue runes if you were a mage midlaner. While with purple runes, you can get 15% cdr per level, 15 flat AP, about 9 magic penetration, about 3 gold per 5, or even something like 5% movespeed.
Another point that could be improved as well imo is the variety in the leveling of spells. In Heroes of the Storm, you could really customize your gameplay based on the spells you chose to augment. It depends on your comp, the enemy team or the map objectives, there was no optimized build and you always had at least 2 ways to play a champion. I know the game is already a mess to balance, but it would be fun to have more ways to play a champion without needing to overload their kit :)
I mean DOTA 2 nabbed the talent system but toned it down so it's not like League couldn't do a similar thing. Could do a lot of what runes kind of have to do, but with character-specific balancing. Can't have everyone be good at dealing with poor matchups with X rune while Mr. Kill has a 53% winrate with said X rune in grandmaster/pro play, but with talents you can give Mr. Kill a nerfed version or none at all while others can have just what they need. Main issue is it gets complicated fast if they're not careful, HOTS talents got very overloaded too quickly towards the end.
I had holiday runes for a few pages. I also remember having the correct combination of runes on a page specifically to have both of Akali's passives active at the start of the game.
I really miss those 2016-17 runes. It was so much fun trying different styles for my main back then. Still sad that those went away.
I remember taking the wombo-combo masteries for Riven, 1 that increase your basic attack dmg by 1%, up to 3 by dealing ability dmg, and the other is vice versa. With animation cancel she deals ridiculous dmg with it.
Honestly, I hope one day riot gets to a point where we get either the old masteries or even the runes, I miss the times of having so many runes/masteries, where I actually had to put thought into who I wanted to play, what was good for my champ or against others, how to make my weaknesses not as weak. I miss the Keystones, it was so much better to hit the Thunderlord's proc then Electrocute, Hopefully someone makes a reddit post and it gets just, like hella hella support and we get something similar one day! Thought i doubt it
I miss playing old League in general. Not only does the game feel dumbed down and less fun, but I miss all the old items, champions (pre-reworks) and game modes (I will always miss you, Treeline) and experience the game as I first played it but with my current knowledge and skill. Started in season 5, I can’t even remember what the meta was like back then, only when things like tank meta hit and Ekko and Fizz would rush Iceborn and one shot you, and the rune rework in season 8 where you could one shot people with old Dark Harvest and all the assassins were updated (LeBlanc was fun af until she got reverted), it was so fun!
I think the same argument can be made for items nowadays too; powercreep has made items and runes alike too powerful to make mistakes on, and the only time a champ's items or runes change is when some new OP build comes out like preseason 12 lethal tempo or Jak'sho right now
Items back then also gives more focused stats. None of these 20% crit on every item, most of which also gives some AD and attack speed.
Nope, you get a 55% AS 35% crit 15% movement speed phantom dancer, 100 AD 25% lifesteal bloodthirster, and 80 AD 25% crit +50% crit dmg IE. You can really go to the extreme with your builds back then.
On the AP side of things, you have thing ranging from 60AP athenes unholy grail, up to 120 AP deathfire grasps. There's a haunting guise that gives 20 magic pen at $1.4k that you don't need to finish building immediately, and then there's archangels that you can stack for even more mana and more AP. You used to be able to reach 1700+AP without needing to be veigar, if you stack 5 archangels and a deathcap.
@@user-mv2nn6rw2w but on the other hand, back in the day team fights were INSTANT. You either live or you die, remember Leblanc back in the days when hitting 6 meant you’ll kill someone ? Going mejai 1st item was possible : mejai DFG and finish.
I like old LOL for a LOT of reasons but man it was a freak show, especially the amount of damage/survivability you could have. 4BT fully stacked gave 400 AD and 80% or 100% (I don’t remember exactly) life steal.
@@axellagoccia260 Leblanc still has to hit her skills to kill someone; just hitting QR does only 300 or so damage at lvl 6.
AP tristana, on the other hand, does about 500 damage with ER at lvl 6. Remember the 1 AP ratio point and click E and 1.5AP ratio ult that has 300 base damage and 60s cooldown at rank 1? You jump near a 70% hp midlaner, hit ignite E and ult, then walk away while they burn to death without any chance to retaliate. Don't even need to hit W for the kill.
theres NO way i just watched the first ep of this 30 minutes ago only to be blessed by another
godly timing Exil
;)
The one part of the old runes i miss was how I used to main draven so my draven rune page was just full ad with a 0.1 crit chance. Being able to level 1 have an extra 30 ad felt great and not something modern league has ever allowed
When you get that 500 damage crit lvl 1 omfg
Back when Draven's passive was a bleed.
@@nathanc939 Which gave him more of an identity as Darius's brother...
@@TerenceChiII the good old days. Damn Draven was doing big damages back then. I did not play him amd I despised him, but do recognise it was a really cool champion.
Give me Legacy League Riot! Give us a mash up of Season 1 to 3 and maybe a bit of S4. Those were the golden days! I swear, I would spend money on that shit, while I have not spent $$$ on LoL since 2015-2016. I do not want to pay dor a game that I feel is deteriorating, which is exactly why I have been holding my cash away from Riot for so long. I am a fucking Paradox game player ffs, I have been spending hundreds of dollars on DLCs for games like Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis, and I would spend as much on Legacy League without questions, just to support the developpment of something I love.
Agreed. More people should see this video and/or talk about this. RPG elements like the ones we had before were awesome. Nowadays a friend tries out an alistar with grasp and everyone flames him to olbivion.
One thing I miss tremendously from the old masteries was the increased ward placement range and I simply do not understand why there is not a rune right now for it. Increased ward placement range could easily slot into inspiration
yuumi buff, no thanks lmao
Just want to say happy holidays to you too, always love the content
happy holidays!
Okay so I have some things to say about this. First, I completely agree with what youre saying, about the balance of old masteries, I totally want them back too, but what I want to say is that when I stopped caring so much about the winrate, I experimented heavily with the rune choices, as a proper nerd I of course know each and every single rune, their stats and exactly how they function, just like I used to with the masteries. Anyway, what I found, is that especially on toplane, you have a lot of rune choices, some ranged champions(Like Vlad, or Kennen) take Phase Rush / First strike / Electrocute, and all are good in *almost* every matchup, all it depends on is how you like to play, so what im saying is that every once in a while, the matchup doesnt make THAT much of a difference. In the akali example tho thats spot on, and im so mad that it matters that much in these instances.
hey man, not sure if youre still checking these but I really enjoy all of the videos you do about OG LoL things. I started playing around 2010/11 and played almost everyday until around 2016 because my internet in college was so terrible. Anyways, I totally agree that the old runes and masteries were so much better than they are now; I remember having to grind enough games to unlock all 30 rune and mastery slots and waiting until I got enough mp (I think they were called mp at the time) to buy runes for my 2 pages at the time since there was no way I was going to get more that 2 pages worth, you know? and I remember how many silly masteries there used to be as well which really makes me feel like OG LoL was such a different game both in play-style and in appearance. Anyways, just wanted to share how your videos always bring out the nostalgia for me and I really appreciate it.
The much more simplistic "get x when y" is so much more casual friendly also, seems so fun to just pick a bunch of stuff that you think would work and try it out, even if it's bad since the bonuses aren't that big you can ignore or even change your playstyle to try to benefit from the runes. Also since they're more simple they can be applied to more champions, which means 2 people playing same champion might have significantly different playstyle, so more agency, and also replayability
I think the power scale of the modern runes is the problem, and not their design. Personally, I love the concept of adapting runes based on my matchup. It's like shifting power and stats of my champion from one places to another. I like having a choice of choosing second wind/bone plating to have safer lane, or conditioning to be stronger later. What I don't like is that each one of those 3 runes is so powerful, that when in a matchup where I'm weaker, taking conditioning and hoping to outscale means I loose on hundrets of hp over the laning phase by not taking the "safe option". If it wasn't hundrets or even up to thousand hp but 100-200 there would be no problem at all.
the old system did this way better. especially the runes made a huge difference early game.
Amazing video, made me recall all of the times I tried messing around with the old set of masteries.
My only complaint is about the whole "wrong choice" thing, as it would just end with people looking up what the hot meta masteries are against x champion anyways.
Other than that, everything was great, made me wish we had these masteries again.
But you still had a choice, from so many masteries and rune combinations you could a lot. I love theory crafting, but the way League is walking towards, it becomes impossible to try new stuff without either losing immediatly the laning phase and/or having people being toxic because "I'm trolling".
I miss the variety of old league, I remember when I first started the sheer amount of items excited me, so many possibilities, now, there's so few and you can just build the same thing every game...
You just gave me some good nostalgia, I remember getting to lane as support with a cookie and a blue ward alongside my starter items, those were the days
In short, many choices with little impact is more customizable and interesting than less choices that are so focused it's impossible to derive from them
I wonder how interesting it would be if players could choose 3 out of the 9 minor runes from a main Rune page withouth the line limitation and the same aplying to secondary ones, like 2 out of the 9 options.
I'm not sure if it could either work very well or completely backfire, but I'm sure it would at least be fun to experiment with just like the old masteries :^)
My favorite rune page was 42% attack speed
Master Yi main
Amazing page bring it back
Back in those days, rune pages were the first thing I spent money on, because I liked the versatility. I had a full armor/Mr page's for when the enemy team all went one way, cdr page, scaling pages, exp quints on snowball characters like talon. Ahhh I miss those days because it allowed you to be creative with your builds and how you approached the game.
playing around with lots of rune options would be so much fun
i never played old league so this is very interesting and i wish i could have so many options
It was the same. We had an inmense array of options to customize our playstyle and people also used to copypaste rune pages and trashtalk each other into following the same 4 or 5 rune setups every game
This is a player-created issue and it will always exist because:
1) a majority of players wants to have the "correct" build and not think about it for more than 30s
2) people can't be bothered to mute their teammates and think for themselves
3) at the end of the day, someone will feel the need to blame their loses on somebody else or themselves not using the "correct" runes/items/champions
@@kokorochacarero8003 Don’t forget that we also had Dominion and Treeline permanently, as well as rotating game modes. Not it’s just Rift, ARAM and the occasional URF or something.
So many other games have solved this problem from the start: Battlerite, Paladins, DKO, etc... Just have the "runes" be character specific. It lets each rune be far more interesting and really let you change a characters play style.
Could argue hero’s of the storm
this sounds nice, but having to learn champion specific runes for 161 champs that change their abilities is way too much
Totally agree with your points here. Recently got back into the game, and the runes are such an unapproachable thing now. I don’t know the baseline best runes for each champion, and sure as hell don’t know which to swap for what matchup.
hey exil, thanks for another great vid. i love listening to people analyze and give their thoughts on game design and multiplayer metas. another youtuber that makes great content like this for another game is scott jund.
I think a talent system would be cool. Every champion has unique talents. You can choose 1 talent (out of a selection of 2-3) for each ability. And it will have some kind of effect almost like Viktor's augments except you have multiple choices for each ability that you select before the game starts.
i actually agree, this system gets used in heroes of the storm but it's chosen upon certain level ups rather than before the game starts. This system is so cool because you can really develop a playstyle for a champion that's your own, maybe one game you're versing a karthus that has an ult that affects everyone, but the next game his ult is a more powerful single target ult instead, or having a yorick ult that can siphon the enemy's life like usual or having it be some braindead heal bot that constantly heals u instead.
@@lolgalaxy4406 yop, one of the big innovations HotS brought to the table. Too sad that blizz just let it die once they realized it's not dota 3.
The power creep argument really hits home for me. I hate it when I have 500 HP and feel safe and then a champion with a 200 damage ability hits me for 700 because of additional effects like runes and item damage
power creep has been an even bigger problem since tthe s11 item rework but the koreans and chinese like this type of gameplay, so it doesnt make sense for riot to not make everyone do disgusting amounts of smg
Happy that you're back on making videos Exil!
I remember loving the Thunderlord's Decree mastery on Morgana back then, still miss it.
I'm in the gym grinding my ass off
Otherwise I'd watch this immediately
But i already know it's a banger cuz Exil never disappoints
Grind grind grind no days off proud of you bud. About to start my workout right now with the video out :)
@@Exil22 thanks man and good luck on your grind 💪🔥
non me ne può fottere di meno down
what's worth mentioning is that with runes with big impact we have today (or since introduction of thunderlord's and fervor of battle), depending on patch they generate very samey feeling for every match. For example during assassin meta in some way I'm no longer playing vs Zed or Qiyana. I'm playing vs a character that if ahead deletes a squishy champion without necessity of using something of value like ulti or ignite and that's all because of electrocute added to 3 hit ability with auto standard rotation.
I still fondly remember my old rune page. I was a support main with a 5 gold per rune page, bandit mastery, and a in-game 5 gold per item.
Good times.
I used Thunderlords velkoz back when I had fun playing the game. The three quick hits + passive stack burst was the most fun thing i've played.
I'm going to feel sad when they eventually rework every old champion and basically get rid of old League. I think old runes were better too if they were free because you could be more creative. I also still think the 2014 map looks the best
They reworked 4 of favs drastically. Soraka Poppy Eve Skarner. Poppy especially pissed me off.
I prefer this kind of rune style. If gives you small bonuses to stats with some of them had a significant benefit like more gold earned or scaling tankiness stat, and the best thing? you can do it to any champion without being handicapped by not taking a predetermined build path. Current rune system practically punished you for not being optimal. The old rune would not punished you that harshly since they gives stats that would always useful. Tankiness stat were always welcomed on a support or bruiser, gold earned is useful to any role, but some were benefited more since they farm quicker. Its about making a small minor impact changes that gives satisfaction to player, not being railroaded to specific build.
I gotta be honest, one of my favorite parts of Exil's videos is the RS3 music in the background. Draynor's theme for this one!
Thank you for the hard work on these videos!
thank you for leaving a nice comment :)
I still remember getting every champ available and having every essential runes with 3 bought pages so that I had 1 per role. Then I proceeded to buy all available pages and every rune available in the needed amount. I had a very fun gold generating page for Janna and had insane gold per min. Had an Udyr page with craze atk speed at lvl 1. Not to mention the weird mastery pages you could build where once I got supports with like 250cd on flash or something crazy like that. Now, I just use one page for everything lol.
I 100% agree with you. I was actually writing a script for a video about the exact same topic just yesterday.
The old mastery system reminds me of upgrades you'd buy in RTS games or something. Love the way the icons looked and I hope they add something similar to them in the future.
League use to be a proto RTS. It is a literal warcraft 3 mod. every big update moved the game away from that and now its just an arcade button masher.
1% crit gang unite
i still remember just messing around and going for the deathfire touch on the katarina then building liandry's and sunfire just to proc as much burns as possible
In the old mastery system you could also put multiple points in multiple masteries in the same row, so you really had to make important decisions of whether to focus on maximising one mastery tier or to go for more than 1 tree and get different stats and effects
The problem with talent systems is that there is always a right choice. No matter what game you're playing, there will always be a set up that is the most optimal. The only way for them to feel like there is a choice, is to make them not really matter.
Well, yeah, duh, in any game with a choice there is a "correct" one. There are always S tier characters. There is always an optimal way. The fun part about any game is to figure out a way to beat the optimal way, or, especially with the old mastery system, figure out YOUR optimal way.
I loved the old Runes! I had SO many pages, it took years to fill them but it was fun running around with a FULL pen page and just oneshot people while stacking ad. I was really sad when they removed them but at least we got our ip back..
Love your vids talking about old league I don't see enough vids talking about the history of leagues mechanics and changes pls make more. Also though I'm a new player and I only started in December of 2021 I would love to see a change to the runes to make them like the older runes/mastery's but free
it was fun because you didnt know anything and you could explore with friends. today is much more refined, but everyone knows what to do. you lose the fun of just playing for fun, not thinking too much about strategy. it feel the same as losing interest in a hobby you started working at.... it stops being a hobby, and starts being a job.
Honestly you speak facts my friend. True that!
same Thing happened to Hearthstone
On current runes, I love that each rune is worth about 500g, it makes them really important and relevant to play around.
I like the keystones we have currently but I would love to have the masteries either coexist with a nerfed version of the minor runes currently or completely replace them.
i love ur videos bro,wish u would make more of them keep it up !
I remember the old rune I ran back then, I filled every spot I could for scaling AP. I practice my laning phase so much back then I was really confident without the early flat rune and took something that helped me late game to close out the game.
I missed making a rune page with full attack speed with a support mastery page that increased healing and using them with old aatrox, it was so much more fun than every champion class having the exact same rune page
My favorite rune page from back in the day was my Master Yi jungle page. I saved up for so long to buy it.... It was literally just all flat attack speed and it came to like 40% attack speed bonus level 1 and i'd just go full AD after that. Such a fun era of league. I miss it...
Truly awesome content creator Exil, i hate to wait for your videos but it's always worth the wait!
I was really proud that I completed my Runes pages back in the day, and was really mad when they were taken away because of how much work went into them.
I worked *hard* for my magic pen pages, I ponied up for those Quints, and I miss them terribly.
Haven't been around League long enough to try the old systems, but I really like the ideas you bring up here. I'm not a very good player at theorycrafting and figuring out what's good for each character, but I would love to experiment with smaller things just based on preference. For example, I really like how Gnar feels with attack speed, but some games I have to go Sunderer instead of Triforce and he just feels way worse to play. In this case that could maybe be solved by going Berserker's, but I can never tell which options are literally just throws and which ones are preference without having to resort to a bunch of research.
7:45 I remember this one time I was midlaning with Diana. I actually forgot I jungled with her prior to the game so I didn't realize that my runes and spells were all wrong. I was, quite literally, beaten to a pulp without any defense cause apparently having smite means you get no benefits from farming minions early game.
i dont remember too much of the old runes cause when i played back then i was very young, but i still miss courage of the colossus gnar, that was such a fun rune. It makes me a tad jealous that i never understood those older runes because they seem so fun, ive played a lot of rpgs and those just scratch that itch, being able to really min max for your specific playstyle is just nice
I totally agree with you.
That also the thing with the new game vs. game that is like 10 years old.
In the beginning all players are experimenting and do not have strict rules/meta. That the reason why game felt more fun before.
Thanks for the video!
Back in the time i used to have 13.5 regen per second with mundo using flat regeneration at lvl1. Also for the supp champs with the gold gen was very good
this is gonna hit me in the nostalgia feels i can tell already
I should mention a Sseth video about a pro as heck Karthus guide back then. It was funny af to watch, but that is to say, just for fun, you could unlock "spawn Karthus".
I remember picking up warkick or lee sin, some defensive runes and going straight to solo drag while the enemy jungler was still making its first clear, it was fun
God I miss odl runes and masteries. Every time I played Talon mid I went for bonus exp runes for quick lv 2 after first wave.
Great vid
I remember when I got excited getting a free rune page on that mobile garena app.
I also remembered when they made all the runes 1 LP before changing the game entirely.
way more interesting. i haven't even played since 2013. when i played the most all the way back in 2010-2011 AD kassadin was still a common strategy
Hey Exil, awsome video. About what you said in the end about getting the largest first strike proc, there's a way to get around 12k gold on katarina in one proc (but ive gotten like 20k once).
1) Pick katarina and buy riftmaker, ravenous hydra, guinsoos rageblade, collector and any other two on-hit items (bork and wit's end for example).
2) Place the four dummies together and give them at least 2100 hp each (so you can proc collector on them).
3) Waste your first strike with an auto or ability.
4) When first strike's cooldown is almost comming back (like 3 to 5 seconds before) damage a dummie to stack up your riftmaker.
5) Now you have first strike ready and riftmaker stacked so just E and Ult the dummies.
6) Tons of gold.
The reason this works is because riftmaker's 9% bonus damage will trigger on collectors 999 damage execute (wich procs for each dagger and on-hit item you have and on ravenous' aoe procs as well) and all that damage will count towards first strike (the game even lags a bit trying to calculate the values xd).
I know it's kind of a bug but I think you'll find fun to try.
I used to mess around alot with the old runes. I had a udyr page where i just slap all the different runes together getting things like +0.3 mana +0.4 ad etc
I had 12 rune pages and different pages for tons of different styles of play, i miss that league so much. Like move speed rune page vlad and rushing boots would blow peoples mind.
i see your point and completely agree that having more options in our mastery trees would be very cool and we need less runes that feel generally good, many of the old masteries like felt they are must pick similar to the new masteries like you always got extra mana for ryze and most mages, always got resistance stuff for tanks and always got extra damage on assassins.
so in a way the new runes are better and most stream lined versions of the old runes so hopefully we get more feeling of choice in the future.
I feel like they could meet in the middle, allowing more choices to be given on minor ruins while also making it less effective to allow choices, changing it to a point system instead of on or off system would allow them to cut the powers into smaller pieces.
I plan to make a shooting game that follow the idea of optionability and take away meta builds as i plan to adjust them if that happens
Awesome Content! keep up the good work😎
thank you :)