The FAILED Champion Riot Regrets... What Can Be Done About Zeri?
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- čas přidán 1. 12. 2022
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Today, let's talk about an iconic League of Legends champion... Zeri. With all the new changes for Preseason / Season 2023, Zeri is receiving another set of changes and rework. She has been featured in the patch notes for league a million times, so what is so wrong with her? Let's compare zeri, one of the most broken and overpowered champions in league of legends, to one of the best designed ones... Lillia -- This video was written, produced, edited, and voiced by Kellen (Exil)
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• Zeri Is Unbalanceable
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Lillia ult is a projectile.
@@SkyshotSwiftI agree, I’m slightly stuck on that lillia part, lillia when she’s broken is way more horrible then zeri.
😊😮I have 😊😊😊😊p😊😊😊
league is making hots champion I mean they making league champion like not a league champion. They are like minigame instead of real gameplay. They are rock addition from rock, paper, and scissors.
I think she's far from the most failed champ but aiight
3:50 Funny thing is, it's actually the opposite of what happened. Both Zeri and Renatta were supposed to release in 2021 but were delayed ON PURPOSE because Riot thought it ill advised to release 2 Piltover/Zaunite champions during Arcane that had absolutely nothing to do with Arcane
Oh my god it's the the league of legends sensation Nicholas Lad
Nickyboi stays having the best taste of youtubers ❤😌
Interesting, at least that's what they have "told us". Clearly if that's true it didn't work with Zeri. The bruiser build should have never existed. No idea how nobody tried that in playtesting.
I thought she was rushed to match her valorant counterpart 😂
@@tiniestlumpia that's funny I would have thought the same thing haha
I love how they admit that this champ is beyond broken and they can’t fix her but yuumi is still in the game 😅
Honestly you're not wrong 🤣
They are also making a mid scope to Yuumi. Let's see what they have planned.
@@raistlinmajere1000 dont you think that yuumi is a champ thats either op or useless, unless a kit change occurs nothing will change
I can not believe how she is still in the game in this state. She is the most uninteractive and straight up cancerous champ in the game. 100% Worlds winrate should tell Riot everything they need to know about her
But yuumi is popular unlike zeri so that makes zeri more failed design (im not saying yuumi is ok its just better than zeri)
One thing to note is, while Lillia may not have had a ton of big changes directly, Riot did fundamentally change the jungle in order to nerf her. If I remember correctly, they changed the monster patience mechanic because she was clearing two camps at a time and steamrolling through the jungle faster than anyone else could dream of.
There were a lot of champs double clearing at the time
Lillia was just the best at it
Remember this was during morganas jungler phase
That stupid deer is still broken
Fiddlesticks mains scream like crows into the night over what they've lost. Their double suck is gone, and with it their sticknity.
@@spacehitler4537I miss the double suck
That was called stacking and a lot of junglers did it. When rito removed stacking, it crippled jg tanks forever and heavily nerfed fiddlesticks until he got massive compensation buffs.
I think a huge problem that you haven't touched on was that she was basically slightly stronger than any other ADC, but at a time when yuumi was also incredibly OP. Seeing how these 2 were usually played together, especially in pro-play, that made her absolutely broken. With yuumi giving her even more movement speed, an aoe CC and a decent heal, she could just skip buying any Utility or survivability items. This allowed her to just rush the highest possible damage items without having any problems with survivability. Her "weakpoint" of having lower damage than other adcs was completely negated by that.
Yuumi is the problem far more than Zeri was. The synergy between the two is what made Zeri seem so bad. i strongly disagree with her having more self peel than someone who gets a dash on every auto and a knockup that repositions her support just because she can go over one or two walls in a teamfight.
@@Nazuiko it's been 6 months, and 12 patches. I genuinely don't care about this anymore.
how is her state now? was she balanced
@@Lanceloot91 zeri is kinda poop now. riot keeps gutting her for pro play (and cause top laners keep crying). yuumi is fine now that she cant just sit on bruisers and auto win games. always said, yuumi is a bruiser problem. if riot would stop showing bruisers as much blatant favoritism, yuumi would't be a problem. but nope.
For the intro, when it comes to Akali, it is good that they whack-a-mole'd a bunch of things that were problematic in her kit, but the fact it took them so long before they were willing, and that they thought having all those crazy features was okay to begin with was what sticks with me.
I agree generally with the idea that she clearly shouldn't have had these things to begin with, but to be honest so many AAA developers would just say "too bad" or "deal with it". Riot showing any room to budge is surprising for such a massive game. I hope they continue to be willing to remove things.
@@Exil22 Agreed, it's definitely easy for a developer to get attached to the idea of something they thought was cool, and sometimes it just doesn't work out so it has to be scrapped. If only there was a PvE place where champs could have cooler aspects like this added onto their abilities as part of the power fantasy...
The one that really got me was true stealth, idk how anyone even without testing thought it made sense seems absolutely bonkers
They still need to do it with akshan
@@BrendanGeormer Imba mode like Old dota
Lillia change to melee is such a buff, now demonic does so much more damage making her burns so op
Yep they are nerfing her damage again. I knew that rushing demonic would be the play as soon as I saw that. She went from like B tier to now S tier in preseason. Apparently jak sho lillia is now a thing as well along with a lot of other champions. I am thinking Demonic + Jaksho is going to be the new Demonic + Sunfire type of meta. Lol.
@@Exil22 Lillia's ult is a projectile, it's not a special interaction with wind wall, it's just ulting in the wind wall will delete the ult. it's really weird since it feels the same as twitch e, but twitch e goes through wind wall
What's worst is that building Ravenous Hydra works wonders with her new Conqueror build, people even maximize the burn with Riftmaker xd
@@shadowislesporo8573 I've been running hydra Gwen, it's disgusting when you max e first.
@@andrewpeng5880 ravenous is op. but at least they removed stacking omnivamp, so you can only get higher ad with stacks.
best part about zeri
is that she got so much changes it shows riot dont want to give up
they gave up on so many characters really fast but zeri they are trying and trying to get her right and i love that one day they will get it right but who knows when that would happen
they gave up on my kalista :( i know how it feels
@@robertothesupermutant830then why she got 2 skins like my anime girl gwen over here, she's only gotten 2 skins in her 2 years of existence meanwhile ahri, lux, mf and ez get more in a few months
@@bullettime1116still gonna sell better than fuckin yorick or tf skins
@@nuxbot919 damn right she will, it's so weird she doesn't have a ton of skins despite her design and mains
Prolly cuz she is some Rioter's self insert.
What you said about removing some of her excess mechanics is how I feel about Zeri. Her W and E just don't really *need* to have terrain interaction, while thematically speaking it doesn't say that much about the champion anyway. Her W seems the most egregious of all in that it's just... Really random? Yet for whatever reason she was balanced in a way that her W became the focal point of her gameplay, at least for a short while.
In a perfect world I think Zeri is designed around her Q more so than anything else, I would argue that her W and E should be complements to her Q at best. If you're always managing your positioning then the standard W is already a worthwhile ability for its slow, and honestly is already quite powerful without being turned into a Lux ult. If her dash was less instrumental to her kit she could also niche out much more as a movement speed hypercarry, rather than becoming a strangely overtuned Ezreal. Their gameplay loops are quite similar, dash, Q reset, dash, etc.
To me it seems a bit lazy as Zeri could've easily been designed to have 0 dashes, with more emphasis being placed on rewarding good positioning. Designing champs around dashes has become a no-brainer crutch in my opinion. She could be throwing down tesla coils for her E for all I care, which could be turned into a zoning threat to aid her positioning, or could lead to rewarding skill expression when used in tandem with her ult to build more stacks of her movement speed. It makes me a bit sad that she gets Lucian's/Ezreal's E instead, when those champions seem to be designed to use those abilities more thoughtfully-especially Lucian, who naturally promotes some of the smoothest adc gameplay out there.
I would accept a W nerf and a E nerf and in return the removal of her stoping every time she Q
I am praying that this midscope update brings her back into the playable category. I love her kit and really would accept any change to make her actually useful again
I hope so too. I love playing her but there is no doubt it was so unbelievably broken. Riot pls fix zeri!
I doubt they'd abandon her and I certainly pray they don't
And hey at the end of the day she's a female champion I'm sure she can sell skins if she's in a decent spot
Agreed. She's a super fun champ. I like that she scales too. Yes her movement speed was too much but I love her for q and w, and yes e
@@ashtonshephard3852 as much as people despise her e, I think its such a cool buff/escape tool that you can combine with some really cool w trickshots. I just hope they don't get rid of her playmaker playstyle
im convinced the only reason people think zeri is fun is because she could gets kills really well…
feel like Lillia's kit was made for her passive unlike most modern champions, and everything just flows afterward
I have to say, as a former Overwatch player, Riot being willing to admit they were wrong and remove shit is very refreshing. Blizzard basically never reverted any changes they made, regardless of how terrible the changes were. They would just try and re-balance with the new changes to the game. It resulted in the game becoming a shell of its former self (even before OW2), and characters' optimal playstyles constantly changing.
Y'know. Its weird how Zeri is seen as a problem, when most of the time, she's not a very good adc without yuumi...
At least in Low Elo. Apparently she's crazy good in High Elo. I wouldn't know lol
I think we should wait to see how her mid scope works. It seems good trying to build her as an adc and limiting her basic auto attack range and mobility in exchange to enhance the rest of the kit.
Hoping for the best!
She was and always be ap caster. Ask Riot.
@@KogMawsTvShow W AP ratio is literally gutted and changed to be AD
@@xarityfan4370 Sry but when they nerfed her?
Yuumi was also a huge part of why Zeri was very strong
The two demons of Riot's balance team
Yuumi is untargetable as long as her host is alive, and Zeri untargetable in practice, so you have a combo, if played correctly, that can’t die
@@Dingdong2730 same reason why ezreal yuumi, sivir yuumi, and twitch yuumi are popular combos.
@@JP11999 I see the theme here here...
Yea they should just delete Yummi
Funny thing I saw was missing: Akali's Q used to deal bonus damage to minions at rank 5! The purpose of this was so she could still function as a split pusher "without having too much pushing power during landing phase", as that was her usual pattern pre-rework
Old Akali was better
This video is supposed to be about Zeri but so much of it is spent talking about Lilia...
9:23 I like that, when you say "No champion has ever had these significant adjustments..." Azir feels offended and hops away 😂
Hahhaa he pops in for a close second. Back in 2014-2015 you are absolutely right he was changed so much 🤣
However compared to zeri to be fair many of those changes were bugfixes. Not necessarily balance related
@@Exil22 True. I remember those times, when I believed Azir will never become stable
Zeri is such a fun champion to play and I'm really glad to hear that Riot is working on her to make her more balanced. Thank you, Exil, for another great video
:)
Imagine having a champ with that skill cap, like even her autos are skill shots, and destroying her like that. All of that just because you rushed to publish her to get some money from the new champ skin. I can’t see any other reason they rushed her that much. But it’s riot games we are talking about, where mistakes are daily routine and good stuff/improvements are an exception. It’s sad that a game with that much potential fell into the hands of useless money lovers.
@@westpower9917well ur wrong in ur assessment riot wants money sure but not its creators they are just workers at the end of the day trying there best
13:48 this is because lilia ult proc is a projectile, travelling to the enemy champion, similar to sylas ult when he throws his chain at you. Samira can block said projectile, prevent the effect.
I'd say a better comparison is Lulu's polymorph, which is also a projectile that has to travel to the target, and can likewise be windwalled.
The Windwall deleting Lillias Ult is simply because the Ult starts with Lillia throwing some small projectile towards the champions affected by her passive. As it is a projectile, the windwall and Samira W can delete it. In the clip you have shown Samira was on top of Lillia, meaning that her W was able to delete all the Ult seeds Lillia threw out.
For me, Jhin is the best-designed champion. It's been several years since his release but he is still so much fun and rewarding to play.
and very useless atm
@@wtyatays1748 true but he still has his niche
not sure about that adc who cant kill tanks isnt rewarding to play imo
@@wtyatays1748 he's dominating low elo. I'm playing in silver and in almost every game with Jhin in it he's always so fed
Unfortunately, the meta isn't in his favor.
When they first revealed her kit, she seemed to me immediately like she was gonna be basically a league version of what Tracer was in Heroes of the Storm. And basically anyone who played Heroes of the Storm pre and post tracer would tell you she was the worst champion design and release of all time for that game. Maybe Genji is more hated, but Tracer having so many dashes and auto’ing while moving was the breaking point on that games balance
That's becouse what make a game is it's framework.
Tracer was breaking HotS framework, she was working in it's own disregarding how everyone else played.
League has few of the champions that do similar but not to such degree (Akshan & other slayers).
Yeah, Tracer def busted HOTS Balance, I became a Tracer main out of pure hatred for her if Im honest full "If shes going to be in every match anyway I may as well be the one abusing her"
Another problem with hots is that it’s tooooooo team based and whole lot of cc.
I would also argue that sleep is also much stronger than stun in the sense that the delay incoming cc is what will cause a break in formation and make the players focus on running away for not having cleanse or rushing a qss which while they retreat it gives even more time for the team to get into position or dish out damage before the actual cc. Plus many players tend to burn their resources when they get drowsy whereas with stun they can just wait it out and the moment its gone spam the flash button and likely get out. with Sleep, it forces bad positioning vs full death plus sleep even buffs the incoming damage for more burst whereas stun is merely just hard cc.
Honestly, when she came out, the bruiser builds were so much fun and I personally dont like Riots approach to force champions to specific items. I like when you can choose and build different things like for example Ezreal. You have so many optiions what to build on him and its one of many reasons why that champ is so fun to play.
Yeah, season 11 fucked item diversity. Season 13 made it even worse, I see Jak’Sho on 5+ champions in some games. Every game you build the same 4 items, bruisers always go Goredrinker into Cleaver into Death Dance, sometimes with Hydra... supports literally only have 3 items lmao, they’re forced to go tank/mage items if they want something different, it’s so dull.
You talk about her being rushed to meet a deadline because of Arcane, But I think it also has a lot to do with the fact that she was essentially developed alongside Neon from Valorant, making her essentially the first cross universe character. Trying to time the release for League, Valorant, and Arcane likely had her play tested much less.
Yeah, because riot’s image, status and wallet are much more important than providing a good and well balanced product
@@westpower9917 what does this even mean? of course it is because thats how companies work
@@sulfur3684 Or maybe, she was play tested. Maybe they want her to be OP. Do you buy skins on Champs you don't win with? lol....
@@jodyroane4219 yes
@@jodyroane4219 do you not know how "maining a champ" works? im 8 months late but clearly you need a reality check
In all honesty, since Zeri tends to go so fast when shes ahead i often forget she has a dash that goes through walls, its like, shes doing so much that i dont process her having a dash skill on top of that
Zoom zoom
It's league 2022. Everything has a dash)
@@k1nk1ne a graves,talon,bard E on a adc sounds very fair and balanced.
@@skeley6776lucian graves kindred all have same thing. The thing thats dumb about zeri is she can fucking hug THICK WALLS . Ones even gragas e cant get over. Now thats fucking stupid. Giving her a a normal sized dash wouldve even been better....
I bought Zeri on release and have mostly avoided learning her bcuz of all her nerfs. I really hope these new changes will make her a lot healthier for the game, and I really hope she'll be viable in other roles since I really hate playing ADC.
What was crazy to me about modern design is that Samira needed EVERYTHING nerfed in a Patch, including passive, for the first time ever. Then Riot went "hold my gragas barrel" with Zeri
3:50 apart from what NickyBoi says, which is also true, a lot of problems from Zeri don't come from her release, it's not that she wasn't a problem back then, but for no reason, Riot began to add weird things to her kit (like the changes to the W AP ratio) that made it even harder to balance her. For every change in order to fix her, they added a new things that completely broke her more and more. This is a very basic example and of course Zeri needed more than number changes, but as I see it, instead of just changing numbers, they also completely changed a mechanic about her that wasn't a big deal until that moment; also, they kinda always rushed her changes, instead of waiting for people to know more and learn the champ, they always made the changes extremely fast, they eventually got tired and nerfed her to the ground to focus on other things, i really hope that these new changes put her in a more comfortable spot
Yeah, making her W crit over walls . Making her ult into an AP nuke. Changing around her passive Q a million times.
@@quantumplatinum3029 bruuhhh her ap build moment made no sense
Zeri had to not only line up with Arcane, but ALSO with the release of Neon in Valorant, for whatever reason. It's hard to meet deadlines like that on three seperate projects at the same time.
I tried zeri out the other day and I was surprised how fun her kit was but shes so underpowered it was depressing.. I hope they fix her Id love to keep trying her.
Lillia ult fires a targeted projectile towards marked targets. When thr projectile lands, the drowsy mechanic is applied. Projectile-blocking abilities can block her ult because of this, if positioned correctly.
Zeri's state right now hurts because she's been by far my favourite champion in the game since her release, I absolutely love her fantasy of being a speed demon ADC that just keeps getting faster as long as she still fights, but like others have said Riot just kept adding random shit into her kit (w crits? who asked for this) seemingly without thinking about how it was going to break her even further. It's a shame to see her state right now, but hopefully her midscope is good and I can finally play and enjoy the game again.
zeri is totally skill-based champion. i got 77% winrate with her (60 matches) at the moment and i play with 20-30 fps. if u just practice, the nerfs can be countered (a lil). it's like playing pre-rework irelia with her 20 nerfs but still making it work somehow.
Try Jhin with hail of blades, celerity and kraken. Fast af
@@MrBiell40the problem is there are a lot of ADC that are better than Zeri to choose from. Also she has overloaded kits and it's impossible to balance her. Nerf her and she will become underpowered. Buff her and she will become overpowered and she will never become balanced unless Riot reworked her.
Lillia ult sends out a thin projectile that moves really fast, so yes it can be blocked with windwall and untargetability.
yeah i was gonna say this, her ult does send out a little sleepy bullet that can be windwalled
If you look really closely when Lilia ults, there is a small projectile that comes out really fast, so Yasuo and Samira blocks that projectile. It's pretty much impossible to react to and is pretty much on the Lilia to not get it blocked.
thanks alot, i spilled my drink when that twitch picture appeared 15:48 hahahaha so chonky
zeri as a concept is the most fun adc ive ever seen and i want nothing more for them to be viable, i play a lot of ryze and he is very viable, zeri on the other hand is so weak that i can't consistently play well. if zeri was a viable and not strong adc i would main them in a heartbeat
Zeri dominated pro play like we've never seen before very similar to how ryze seems to always be a problem as well. I hope they can get her right too, she is so fun
When she came out i thought: "hmm interesting concept surely nothing can go wrong!"
She will receive a mini rework for the 100th time in a few days i feel bad for Zeri mains
Ryze mains: "You know nothing"
@@FunnyMoments-hp5cf Hey at least Ryze had a few months before their changes, Zeri had a time where she had more hotfixes than patches since her release
They’re paying their price for those months of inflation
zeri mains? I haven't seen her in game for months now
@@flapjackpancake5486 We exist, but we're just sleeping, awakening to ruin your games for about a week before realizing that Zeri needs 4 items to do anything without solid teamwork, and then going back to sleep again.
i think putting a combat timer on zeris wall ride could do good, it could just be 5 seconds but i think being able to wall ride during fights is too strong for adc's
Absolutely. It’s so boring to fight her and watch her just zoom away. I thought Talon was bad enough, now there’s 2, and this one moves fast 24/7...
the dash over the wall is my fav thing, I hope they don't remove that one thing
"The FAILED Champion Riot Regrets" is a title you could apply to at least 20% of League's champs
Don't tempt me to make 20 videos in a row all with this same title ranting about the game you know I'll do it!!!
@@Exil22 I would watch that
@@Exil22 DEW IT!
@@Exil22DO ITT
I legit think on release her kit could have been in a healthy spot, but instead of just nerfing her numbers they felt the need to constantly change her kit and how it works without much thought meaning that she has had at least 5 broken builds in other ways and now she’s just unfixable without a midscope (thank god she’s getting one).
Zeri is impossible to balance the way Legaue works. Champions 2 taps each other and are ending really fast. ADC is the only left role in the game needing 3 items to play the game, and Zeri has another big issue : low damage, high attack rate.
Riot has been reworking her over and over for that reason. You can't balance her as she is, it is impossible. She is either too strong : dealing too much damage or too weak : not dealing enough damage. And it's not possible to make it viable because when she is indeed viable, she's underperforming due to League powercreep being completely busted. The game is way too damn unbalanced to make Zeri viable, and this was obvious since her release.
A lot of people have this misconception where they think that "zeri is not overloaded, is overtuned". Honestly if it was just a fact of numbers i think proplayers wouldn't have had to pick her even when she was 45% wr in soloQ. As Exil said during this video, her kit is rotten to the core, as she is basically what every ADCarry wishes to be: longest range in the game, zero resources to commit when farming during lane, amazing self-peel, infinite ms scaling (remember how 5 ms buffs and nerfs can modify a champion winrate by 2%?), mixed damage that has zero counterplay against in terms of itemization. When you can't balance a champion by lowering or buffing her stats maybe it's not that "they just had to give her time and nerf her numbers", no, then she will just be completely useless as the spot she's in now, or ruin completely proplay.
So the bruiser build on Zeri’s release was completely fine?
I’d like for you to explain what balance changes they could’ve made for her back then that would’ve made her a relatively fair and balanced champion.
The way I see it, the most broken thing about Zeri is her movespeed, in conjunction with her range, it made her impossible to play against for most champs because nobody has point and click hard cc with over 825 units of range. She is dealing full dps to you while you can’t hit her, you can’t engage on her because she has double your movespeed, a slow and a dash that jumps walls, and you can’t escape for the same reason
To kill Zeri you had to get a flank and instantly cc and pop her, which isn’t really fun and healthy counterplay, not to mention assassins needed to be really fed to do that because Zeri’s core build on Release gave her over 1k bonus hp and allowed her to easily itemize Wits End, Maw, Steraks, DD and GA without losing much damage.
@@Dingdong2730 nope that build sucked, but it came from her base stats being so high she didnt need to strictly go damage to be impactful, as such she went more brusier items to take advantage of that. Only physical change to the kit I would make is maybe shorten Q range if nerfing her damage, ad growth, and hp didnt do enough
@@foleyas9669 no, that build was obscene, her crit scalings were just too shit to incentivize buildng crit so people experimented with bruiser and instead of a traditional ADC, she tickled people with AoE while having 3600 health and not dying because that much extra health on an ADC that can get exponentially faster has no counterplay
Lillia main here, 10:08 if i remember correctly the patch note for this change specified it was to make laning harder for lillia and jun easier.
I wonder how you get those interesting shadows and mists. I know it's probably a summoner's rift mod, but I would love to use it too!
I was hoping she'd be an Energy Based ADC, where the amount of times she can auto or Q would be limited like a battery, and would have to recharge by moving just like yasuo passive
Or what I would like better is change her Q to anything else not a machine gun that requires constant spam, maybe a cannon or a lazer or whatever. I hated her the first time I use her, spamming even more than Karthus
This is actually a solid idea and making her move faster and faster would make her rechage faster which then increases her damage output and play making, a different champion for sure without a generic skillshot spam.
I just wish they would focus on one thing with Zeri. As a primarily mage player I was drawn to her skill shot auto attacks and fell in love with that part of the kit, but every other aspect of her kit is/has been so broken.
I originally played her support (for no other reason than that my duo refused anything but adc XD) then i realised with the wall dash, she has one of the best roams ever, and her right-click can hit really really hard, and started playing her mejai's-nashor's mid, at @ level three would gank bot for a double kill almost every game.
@@niero4201as long as ur enjoying iron then theres nothing wrong witth that
@@jungyo8417 people like you are what keep people innovating and actually enjoying the game instead of being a meta slave being trolled into bronze every game, along with you
How did you do the cool lighting effects
Lillia Ult is a projectile so you can basically remove that projectile with alot of abilities not just Yas Wall and Samira Spin wal
Great video as always. One small thing is that zeri’s ult still gives her all of the buffs for potentially infinite duration, It lasts for 5 seconds and every hit against an enemy adds 1.5 seconds to the duration which is capped at the initial 5 seconds, so as long as she’s hitting enemies she will keep refreshing the buff.
As for my thoughts on whether she can be fixed, I don’t think you can fix her. So long as she has longer range than every other adc while also having more mobility tools, she will always have the “she can hit you but you cant hit her” problem. Ezreal is in my opinion zeri’s design concept but better. He has absurd range sure, but in order to get the most out of his kit you are incentivized to be in his normal auto range because otherwise you are completely wasting potential damage from his passive and even a small amount from his e. On the other hand, Everything in zeri’s kit points towards her wanting to stay as far away from you as possible while giving her every tool she needs in order to do that. Her basic attacks are more effective if you play hit and run, her q effectively travels farther if you are kiting backwards, her w is more effective if you are fighting from behind terrain, her e travels the entire length of a wall, (90% of the reason people hate kayn is because he can do this too) and her R gives her ms to kite away more easily.
If you want to truly fix her you need to either give her reasons to want to stay close so that she operates most effectively in the thick of things while still having the option to poke from outside, or you need to remove her mobility options so that she cant both operate at max effectiveness while 10 miles away and also have every tool in existence to get to 10 miles away. Both of these options remove a core part of her identity so I fear her fate is simply just her becoming ryze 2.0.
13:40, that happens because when Lillia uses the ult, she sends a small proyectile, which can be seen, to the affected targets, and that proyectile can of course be cancelled by samira or yasuo
Yeeeaah, that's what I was thinking. I've seen Braum shield block it too.
Untargetability also works against it. I have dodged Lillia R with Vlad W, so I guess Eve R, Fizz E, Camille R, all that jazz.
Jhin has been changed in 42 patches over his release in season 6. That is seven patch changes a year. While Lillia has had 16 patch changes since her release. So 8 a year. And Zeri has 39 changes in one year.
4:15 Is it just me or is this long transition super satisfying
Here’s the weirdest part with Zeri, her release was pushed BACK. She was meant to release in 2021 but they ended up waiting till early 2022 which is why renata and bel’veth released so quickly after her. So how did a champion with an extra 2 or so months still be so unfinished?
I genuinely think that zeri should be playable in the jg with her dash and lux poke abilities relying on terrain, I wanna have fun and play her but rn is not the time
oh she totally works, her E ganks are terrifying and with the new jungle items it's so much easier now.
also forgot to mention that aatrox used to gain a small amount of AD after using his dash for a few seconds. Thats why on some of his skins like mecha aatrox, the sword would turn green after dashing
An old friend played Aatrox back before his first rework, I started using him after the rework since my friend had since been unable to play from being busy, really sad to see the entire part of his kit removed but I understand.
The moment I saw that Zeri's auto attacks were exclusively tied to an ability, I knew there was going to be problems with her. Her kit's power budget was completely out of whack; especially since they tried so hard to make her a kiting ADC, but gave her a dangerous combination of DPS, front-loaded burst, and high mobility. IMO they should have gone a similar route to Jinx and made Zeri's Q passive and active one single "stance swap" ability and give her a more normalized auto attack. I know that takes away a lot of her uniqueness, but clearly Riot doesn't quite understand how to balance a champion with her current set up.
I think one very consistent indicator of overloaded/unbalancable champions is how many sentences it takes to explain their abilities. Imo, each champion should have 5 abilities that can each be explained in one sentence. To use the comparison in this video Lillia has a magic damage burn on her passive, a circular cleave and passive movespeed on her q, a small area bonk on her w, long range poke on her e and sleep on her ult. Zeri is so overloaded that her q alone: makes her autos count as spells, makes her q spell count as autos and it charges up some charge (i don't know what it does when charged), her e and w both turn into completely different abilities when used over walls and her ult is aoe damage, as, ms and chain lightning. This overloaded buffet of features makes Zeri a nightmare to balance because there are just too many moving pieces.
3:59 and u also have to consider that she was released alongside neon in valo so there was time pressure there aswell
The lillia wind wall interaction is a bit different than what you said. Lillia ult shoots out a teeny tracking projectile that can be windealled by Samira or Yasuo. In the clip you showed Samira was just basically inside lillia so she windwalled all the projectiles.
The thing about Lilia also, is she was pretty popular in the meta around her release. I remember seeing her in pro games and she worked really well
Being competitively viable and not needing a huge amount of changes is a huge achievement
I'm not lying when I say Lillia is the reason I always come back to this game, she makes League really fun for me and I feel like I always have some control with her no matter what the game state is. I've never worked so hard to try and master a champion and she makes me want to play ranked, I'm practicing a lot in hopes to climb with her this coming season.
But the real question is do you often play against lillia? its a nightmare to play against her, she can be 0 / 12 and still be the most fucking annoying thing ever and as much as you have fun playing her this is not what a blanaced champion should feel like to play against when losing. Don't get me wrong i'm glad you have fun with that champ but the frustration that builds up playing against lillia that's basically uncatchable running around even faster than zeri does isn't equal to the amount of fun you're having and it doesn't feel normal to me...
@@MarlonTaylandeur skill issue lillia is fine
@@MarlonTaylandeur tbh, most if not all lol champions can be frustrating to play against
@Froggy Fortress not to this point, and move speed is the highest cost Stat in the game, it's basically the best Stat too and she just gets it for free, rendering her impossible to evade or catch. You can't hit skillshots and you can't catch her and you can't escape. It's cancer as fuck. Take hecarim for instance, he's pretty annoying to vs (and strong too but that's beside the point) BUT his move speed boost doesn't last forever so eventually you will be able to get to him when it runs out. Lillia's will not. And she can just use jungle camps or random creeps to make it last forever. She is one of the worst design of the league.
The Song name from 4:22 - 4:32 is called: "Violet Sky" from Phello
I have put this here since i myself was too lazy to search through all the comments and wanted that it may be found more easily
I have to say this. It's nice to see Exil pushing more content nowadays. We've been in drought for a few months there buddy.
I loved zeri, she was my favourite champion to play and it sucks to see her in this state and that her ult and q are getting such a huge nerf but at least there's a chance that they'll be buffed to a nice spot instead of having to be nerfed into whatever is going on now
For most of the year Zeri was my most played champion. I really liked her gameplay and seeing her being gutted and reworked over and over again made me quite hopeless, even with the midscope I'm not sure she will be balanceable again.
I'll just wait and see, I don't want to illude myself
Surprised to not see many comments acknowledging how well made the video is. I’m curious to know how much time and effort was put in. Well done mate.
I think most people are used to the format now and expect it to be good already. You’re absolutely right though!
I think they way to fix the W is just make the wall bang have a longer delay. If it hits a wall, it makes the big targeting area, and then detonates, but it's less than half a second delay between you seeing the danger zone and the blast; if they gave it a .75s or even a full second delay, that makes her more dependent on her team to pin people down, rather than just having her opponent have bad internet and not having time to react
So we nerf it in favor of people that are shit and the major minority that may be lagging. I'm super glad you dont work for riot
I think there's an even better example: VEX. She received 2 singular nerfs on release notes, then an universal buff, an universal nerf and a buff to compensate she lacks % damage. She's the definition of a pocket pick and is incredibly stable; if we ignore the 12.10 changes she only received adjustments the first patch and never again, because she's simple and used mostly as a soft response to certain opponents.
Lillia, (release) A-sol, & Singed. My top 3 favourites from a design perspective. I love the champions that focus on movement for damage, it is such a fun niche.
I haven't watched yet, I plan to later... But I think the largest flaw with Zeri is the fact that she was designed to be a super zippy/fast moving carry, but also has the longest "basic attack" range of all marksmen at 750 (was 825 - even longer than ulting Twitch IIRC). I think they needed to decided (still need to decide) if they want her to be about movement or poking and either gut the Q range and buff other aspects of her, or rework parts of her kit to pull power out and make her more like Cait. I believe the former is what was intended with her, but she's never going to be remotely balanceable with range that crazy and being a very fast champion.
A blind man could have seen this coming with Zeri. Hyper mobility has no place in a Moba, as soon as you start down that rabit hole, its almost impossible to climb back out of it.
You make blocking lillia ult sound easier than it really is, when she ults she sends out very fast projectiles to everyone who is affected by her passive, if you block that then they won't get slept but that means everyone needs to stand behind wind wall the moment she casts or samira has to be on top of her whole team or on top of lillia and get the timing right since her w doesn't last as long
Riot has always been unbalanced
14:00 Thats not suprising. Her Ult is a little spark that goes from her body to the enemies. Thus a projectile.
The Lillia R can be blocked by Yasuo and Samira because there actually is a small projectile travelling from the flower above Lillia to everyone with her passives DoT on. And since the activation of her R removes her DoT on enemies it looks like they just delete it but thats actually not the case.
Zeri just makes me sad, because I really enjoy the gameplay of having to aim my autos. My hands can't seem to move fast enough to a-move with one hand, so putting the auto on Q is game-changing. The problem is, no other champ in the game provides the experience Zeri does. Ezreal plays more like a mage and doesn't have the AOE that Zeri does, Cassiopeia is close but does magic damage so is hard to fit into a team, and Jinx has zero mobility outside of Get Excited. I seriously hope Riot can get Zeri right, because her gameplay loop of zipping around, dealing a ton of explosive crit damage in teamfights is exactly what I want out of an ADC.
This is everything I said would happen with Zeri when she was in PBE. I said that she was clearly going to be a nightmare to balance and Riot's response was eventually going to be to nerf her into the ground because there's no way for her to have a middle ground. Others were like that won't happen! She has clear weaknesses like has a weak early game, she's squishy if she gets caught and she doesn't do that much damage comparatively to other ADCs.
You sound a bit like reallifelore, you have one of the best narrating voices in my opinion.
Great video, i hope to see more quality stuff like this!
I got a Nerf ad while watching this video and that was one of the most beautiful things to happen to me recently
Zeri, imo, is by FAR the best champion that Riot has released in the last 3 years. Her kit, playstyle, new mechanics, gameplay, everything is just perfect. Her viability is definitely lower than others atm, but that doesn’t change how amazing of a champ she is. One of my favorite ADCs for sure.
I don't like playing against Zeri and I haven't tried her out myself. However I still feel bad that she's getting gutted like this. I think her range and scaling was fine since she's an adc. Maybe they should remove the wall slide and slow from the laser.
nah, she was on steroids
On Aatrox's E you forgot to mention the brief AD bonus upon casting it
bro what is the fog instead of darkness in these clips, I need this now. Is it a mod or graphics like what???
lillia is my absolutely favorite champ from recent releases. she is: cute, simple and intuitive to play and EXTREMELY fun.
We can debate about balance all day... But yo this new toxic chat detection is so bad and needs to be balanced.
yea it sucks. people are baiting into saying them illegal words. 2 games in a row people are baiting me to chat "midget". lmao
"What do you call small people?"
"is migget the term for small people?" (i corrected the dude and i lost the ability to chat the entire game.
The windwall abilities block the lullaby Lillia sends to sleep them. It counts as a projectile.
I think they should shift her power from q to fully charged zaps so she has to get closer to deal damage. It's also extremely fun, I love AP Zeri so much
I personally would just like her removed from the game. All the nerds and changes in the world will not fix the self peel issues that should not exist on ADCs
I agree. I hated Samira’s wind wall for the same reason, she doesn’t need a support if she’s even slightly ahead (and sometimes not), just jumps on you and deletes all your abilities while being unkillable with Shieldbow (also hate that) and Steelcaps. Put a support on top of all that and you’re having no fun. Nilah needs to be removed too, at least her Jax E, wtf were they thinking?! Shieldbow, auto attack dodge with MR, 2 dashes, heal/shield sharing, bonus exp, aoe pull with healing... zzzzzzzzzz
The ironic thing is many people think her clone Neon should also be removed from Valorant because her abilities do not belong anywhere near a tactical FPS
I am a Zeri main. I've loved her since she released and over the course of time I've become dependent on her kit to keep me into League... I will cry if Riot kills her anymore.
Narrow w, smaller q range, buff based attack speed, and thst ult change mentioned and she’s golden
Zeri and neon who was both released at the same time in league and valorant was very op at release but both also got nerfed making them both at one point at the bottom of everyones tier list. Its funny how riot can mess up in both games at the same time.
I actually consider Lillia as one of my mains. Lillia is very consistent and reliable for me. Lillia resonates so well with me.
Can NOT remove her mobility without completely destroying the point of her. The past few years have added HYPER-mobile laners and junglers that can go through any terrain (Au Sol, Kayne), and Zeri is the ADCs version of it. If you remove Zeri's mobility, you need to remove champs like Kayne as well.
I like how almost none of her problems come from her unique skillshot AAs, aka the most unique thing about her
really goes to show how blaming weird and gimmicky mechanics for bad balance makes no sense
11:33 Holy shit I had erased this from my memory and seeing it again made me feel the same astonishment as back then lol
And now is coming to Wild Rift... God help us
we're gonna need another flood - jesus
LMAOOO NO WAY HAHAHAHAHA HAVE FUN GUYS
@@iweb5180we’re getting Zoe too 😞
One patch and they are already nerfing her to the ground xD
Lillia is an excellent example for a well-designed champ. Her gameplay is fun but straightforward, her basic abilities are strong but singular in their application, and her ult can either be fantastic or totally mediocre depending on you and your team's skill. This all makes her fun to play and fun to play against.
Her ult needs more counterplay imo, that shit’s far too easy to land and pays off too well for what it is. Also has little counterplay (spend 1300+g and waste an item slot).
16:49 - I legit thought this was a WARNING WARNING NATURAL DISASTER alert when the background music started.