You know, trains can also run in the other direction. And believe it or not - at some point they HAVE to run back to the north, otherwise all trains will be in London and there will be none left in the north to go to London! 😮 Unbelievable, right?
I think we need to start planning now for a rail network for the 22nd century. There is a major problem with new rail networks which is finding a suitable overground route so we end up building a lot of tunnels on the route. Why not accept the inevitable and build an underground rail network underneath the existing motorway network. The idea would be to run passenger trains and vehicle trains like the Eurotunnel trains on this new underground network. The great benefit for electric powered trucks would be the ability to switch to the underground railway for the long distance part of their route. The service would include power charging so that the trucks can continue for the final part of their journey rather than wait at service centres to recharge. The underground route would include links for passenger trains to the centres of cities. If this is the future plan then we need to consider HS2 in this context. Richard
This is why tycoons donate to political parties; to get projects like this pushed through. Someone will be making a huge wad out of this if it goes ahead.
I would sadly be surprised if HS2 is stopped for the simple reason that Labour, Conservatives and the Lib Dems all support it. Watched Question Time recently and there was only one person that disagreed with it and that was a journalist. There were so few arguments between the politicians that I wondered why they had it as a question. Once again it will be the politicians ignoring what the majority of the public and voters want. Unless that changes HS2 will go ahead whatever we do.
They say it took 20 years for the Egyptians to build the Giza pyramids. And 70 years for teams of consultants to get it through the design, public consultation and procurement stages. It took 6 million stones and 20 million emails.
I'm not saying that HS2 is needed or not, and look at the problem however you wish, the current railway system is vastly overloaded and SOMETHING has to be done, probably the best idea is HS2. THERE IS NO MORE CAPACITY ON THE CURRENT SYSTEM.
As a Scot, I'm absolutely delighted we'll be contributing around £5bn for a railway line hundreds of miles away. Just one of the many excellent reasons to vote No next year.
Donnel You're not alone in this state. You probably don't have a need for this railway, but some others do. The same people have no need for the road connecting to your home, but they paid for it. That's how a state functions. Otherwise we have anarchy. Vote whatever you wish, Scotland remains in the UK.
Absolute Justice That's generally how elections work. A party releases a manifesto, people vote for that party, and then if they win, they enact their policies paying for them by taxation. Happy to have cleared this up for you.
Absolute Justice And nope, the road going to my house (the new Forth crossing) is not being paid for by the potential users of HS2. It's being paid out of the Scottish Govts budget and EU funding. HS2 is coming out of UK taxation.
It all sounds great ! A new North - South Rail route ! What about the one the Tories got rid of ? That went from Marylebone to Sheffield and the beauty of it is that it was built to the Continental Loading Guage. Commonly referred to as the Great Central Railway.
On point Mr kiss. When French built their high speed choo choo they told people the same as we are told. What it did is make Paris easier to get to and commuting increased from the south west and forced up house prices 200 km from Paris.
Gove is right when he said that the whole point is to relieve congestion on WCML. A new railway is needed, fast or slow. The huge, massive cost for this project shows the real cost of the root problem of this, which is the Beeching Axe, more specifically destroying the Great Central Main Line, which would've handled current capacity if it still existed. Also, it was the only line with continental gauge, which would've facilitated freight traffic on rail from the continent once the Channnel Tunnel was built. Hmm, maybe the road lobby didn't want this, as Will Self suggested?
Because our train lines came first. Same issue happens with the states regarding power since they aren't capable of transmitting 230V. Same as the fact that Korea has lightning fast internet because its infrastructure is fairly recent. Germany put a lot of investment into trains during WW2 so their trains run on time due to good infrastructure placement in a time of war.
The BBC aired a documentary a little while ago called "The Railway: Keeping Britain on Track". Watching it, you realize how much work already goes into keeping plates spinning and how even a small delay can have repercussions on the other side of the country. With that in mind, I can only imagine how much more chaotic their job would be if they tried to double the amount of trains running at once, not to mention that when anything went wrong the results would be all the more catastrophic.
HS2 is principally about 'increased capacity' in relation to moving people down to London - increasing the reach and available labour pool in London with freight secondary. The North East to North West axis cities which include many top ranking universities: Hull, York, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, Huddersfield, Manchester / Salford, Liverpool are served by appalling rail rolling stock: antiquated bus coach cabs on antiquated bogeys. This rail axis lacks capacity with large scale delays and overcrowding and has been massively undefunded over many many years. Ironically Sheffield had the first electric rail line. Contrast this catchment area with the proposed new Cambridge - Milton Keynes - Oxford Rail link. Vacuous slogans such as 'the Northern Powerhouse' are supposed to beguile those in the North of England. HS2 fares will be unaffordable for all but business executives, politicians and media. Noise will be a significant issue. Improving the North's existing rail infrastructure significantly is a very low priority compared to the white elephant vanity HS2, Crossrail 1 & 2, Cambridge to Oxford. The consultants PwC, Kinsey, KPMG et al have regular ministerial access and influence and profoundly shape tax and infrastructure legislation in a much less democratic process than the much reviled EU. Likewise Offshore Private Equity a la George Osborne at Black Rock. Yet that seems wholly acceptable. Executive and non executive directorships for revolving door politicians play absolutely no part in facilitating this shameful gravy train.
in theory videoconferencing teleworking etc should help but in practice everyone still seems to want to cram all the significant economic activity in london... what would it take to make better use of the rest of the country
The main purpose of this project is to siphon public money from the public purse into the pockets of Tory Donors. The new railway will carry executives who spend their time collecting high salaries for doing the same to our other public services. If these people were all sacked tomorrow the rest of us would be better off. We need public investment in house building, and manufacturing not finance and theft.
Liking the way Gove exposes his complete lack of regard for genuine environmental impacts (much like the rest of the failed 'greenest government ever') as if great crested newts and rare birds are just a waste of time...the same for Fracking - he also shows he has very little understanding of what is genuinely required in terms of meeting the real infrastructure needs in the UK; but then the government has no strategy for economic growth either so I guess this is what we can expect!
Constantly upgrading lines is waste of money in my opinion. The WCML was upgraded mid 00's for a cost of £14bn and guess what its already full, not forgetting the population is going to increase considerably in the next 10 years. The WCML is so old, double decker trains are impossible due to existing bridges etc. Our infrastructure is generally embarrassing compared to other countries, except for London, who are managing to spend billions on Crossrail projects without a blink of scrutiny from the public. The biggest benefit for HS2 however is connectivity. Speak to any property developer and they will tell you infrastructure is important, no one is going to invest if places lack connectivity. In terms of if we can afford it, construction is a long project, the £42 bn will be spread out over the 17 years. It will be peanuts to our yearly annual budget. If you want to look at savings to projects that will have no benefit to me and you, look to trident. London is the the UK's biggest asset, we need to connect it to the regions in order to spread growth and make Northern cities an attractive place to invest.
+Warren Brown Excellent comment. I live in Japan. I can only be in favour of HS2, being able to contrast the two rail networks. Anyone and I mean anyone who is against HS2 just seems to me an ill-informed Ruritanian nitwit, based on what I see here. NO fatalities in over 50 years, large cities in far-flung parts of the archipelago with easy reach, via the infrastructure of a vibrant economic landscape, north to south, east to west.
They have not upgraded correctly I spent 40 years on the railway so know what I am talking about privatisation has been a joke as its not private it's still payed for by the tax payer much of the money we all pay in tax that goes into the railway ends up going to private operates not the rail way that's why the operators all climb over each other to get the franchises they are government back shareholders. Much of the rolling stock is payed for using your tax in the first place to build them then leased at cost price to the operators. Subcontractors abound from tree clearance too relaying track they all cost a fortune often fail to deliver then NWR (you) are the ones who foot the delay bills and there are a very limited number of companies NWR can use so no real competition . There is capacity for more trains but it needs the money that has been wasted putting in the right places not squandering by politicians and new style management that know squat about the railway.
Well, this bears up our own experience, never meeting or speaking to anyone who thinks this monstrous proposal makes any sense, (there again we don't know anyplanners or consultants who has already well paid so far out of the public purse) - the overwhelming reaction is a big fat NO, NO, NO to HS2!
Well, I suppose the main factors would be historic under-investment by successive governments, corruption and general ineptitude in route planning and economic management. But these are hardly unique to Britain. One problem particular to the UK is the London-centric problem, and the fact that our capital sits in the south-eastern corner, relatively close to the bridgehead with the continental Europe. And that, of course, is sheer geography and history.
The TREES want you to know that they have no suicidal thoughts or ideologies of burning them selves down. They wish you to know they are happy and intend to live a long and healthy live helping humanity breath clean air and making homes for wildlife and birds.
It definitely needs to be scrapped and I love up north, I’d rather see that money get plowed into modernising our current tracks and making our rail fares cheaper
When HS2 was lazily designed, copying GreenGuage 21's strange proposal, they never bothered to inquire if Liverpool's rail demands would increase. They never knew about the proposed new Superport. Liverpool is the only deep water port on that coast. The Liverpool in-river Superport takes the Maersk Triple-E container ships of 20,000 containers, the largest ships in the world. The average size ocean going container ship is approx 5,000 containers. So one of these is the equivalent of 5 average containers ship. The new berth can take two Triple-Es. But!!! It takes some shifting of 20,000 containers, never mind 40,000. Only rail can do that. The roads to the port are choking up with trucks as it stands. The rail provision is woefully inadequate. The terminal currently can only deal with smaller ships because the transport infrastructure is not up to it. Few Tripe-Es will berth until the rail transport is uprated. There is a plan to ferry container by barge up the Manchester Ship Canal, however this will only scratch the surface. There is also suggestions of barging them over to Birkenhead docks and reinstating rail there for southern bound containers. Trade with North America is increasing and moreso with Brexit. Then there is also the North West Passage. The Chinese are building strong hulled ships to sail in convoy through the passage. Liverpool will be the natural port for these ships being on the right side of the country. On the announcement of HS2, the Port of Liverpool immediately complained that they need a dedicated HS2 line to Liverpool to alleviate the existing rail for freight and more provision must be made in existing lines. TfN have agreed with this and want a new high-speed HS3/Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR) line to Liverpool. The port is within one hour of 60% of the UKs population. It is essential for industry that the city and port are served well with rail. The City of Liverpool contracted ResRepublica, a right leaning consultancy/think tank, to present and lobby its case, offering £2 billion to connect the city to HS2. An independent pressure organisation 20 Miles More appeared as did a few others. The rail provision to the port benefits the whole of the north of England and beyond. It gives cheaper and quicker transport of goods. All the councillors and MPs in the 'Liverpool City Region' should organise and be banging on desks in Whitehall. Even towns and cities should protest well away from city, as they will gain. ResRepublica said Liverpool should have been the first city on the list for HS2. The city's metro, Merseyrail was to be one third larger, but men were pulled off site 40 years ago leaving about 4.5 miles of disused tunnels under the city. No work has been restarted. There have been some minor extensions to Chester and the likes, but little to what was cancelled. In the meantime London has had Underground extensions, the 30 odd station DLR, the Overground, Thameslink, Crossrail and fast airport lines, while Liverpool got to near zero. The mayor has had to resort to threatened to cut a station in one of the disused tunnels to embarrass HMG/DfT to run in tracks. The city drew up plans for the station. Central underground station is one of the country's busiest in platform length. It is dangerously overcrowded and needs a few more platforms with the space available to do it. The city needs the metro finishing desperately. Yet the city 30 miles down the road is having built for it free, a tunnel under Crewe station, a station that will be little used at Manchester airport, long lengths of _curving_ HS2 track and a disproportionately expensive 7.5 mile 'branch' tunnel serving a _'terminal'_ station facing the wrong way. It is not as if Manchester is a Munich or Barcelona, it is not, if far from a city of that status, equal to Liverpool and Leeds. *None of it makes sense. None of it.*
How come other countries manage to install high speed rail (japan) but we are so shit and constantly moan at everything. Never agreed with micheal gove ever. But he's right about somebody moaning about something. And you can't please everyone, if you try you please no one
Why have a railway from London to only Manchester and Leeds. What about Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow ? And is it even much faster than current railways ? And, is it fast compared to fast rail in other countries ?
My question would be will HS2 solve the problem of the lorry congestion on our roads? There is talk of moving more freight by rail but whilst the government gets so much in revenue from diesel spent on lorries they will not alter the method of freight transport in this country. The idea that HS2 will benefit commuters is already being doubted - as more video conferencing takes place so travel will reduce.
That's not how money works. The government can have as much money as it wants, if it thinks the benefit will be further economic growth in the long run. You all need to study basic monetary theory.
Didn't think I'd ever Agree with a UKIP MP but he was spot on in what he said, instead of privatising the railways 20 years ago they should have spent money on improving them or at very least had the private companies that run on and buy the lines sign a consensus saying they would improve the service on a 5 yearly basis as demand and need came along in the future. It's too inconsistent with rail travel, look at our European Neighbours and how well they have done with their train systems it is possible and we shouldn't be having to spend shedloads of a whole new line due to not sorting this out 15-20 years ago when it NEEDED IT!
But the railways have been improved during the Private era. Having said that, privatization wasn't handled well at all and I kinda agree that the private cos should own their track (that they operate on).
Owen Evans Have you been on a train recently? Too few carriages, filthy conditions, outdated carriages, pre-booked seats that don't exist? under paid staff, late/delayed trains with no right to claim money back unless you have been 'majorly inconvienced' the list goes on.
Cash Back Quite a few misinterpretations there... "Too few carriages"- I agree with this, the Crosscountry Voyagers are a good example. However, this all depends on platform lengths etc "outdated carriages"- Depends on where you live, most of the trains round Birmingham are >20 years old, and don't forget the new fleets that we are due (IEP, AT-200's, Crossrail and Thameslink trains among others) "pre-booked seats that don't exist"- Not really a massive issue is it. " under paid staff"- Depends what you mean by staff, drivers earn 40-60k PA, depending on their link and TOC. "late/delayed trains with no right to claim money back unless you have been 'majorly inconvienced"- Some delays are unavoidable, e.g. suicides.
I just don't get it, I'm hearing nothing pro but "healing the north/south divide". All I know about this divide is that in the north, the housing is cheaper and the wages are lower. How is halving the train transport times between a few major cities supposed to raise the wealth of the wider northern community??
Run Hs2 to Finningly airport and make that London's next runway. It can run next to the M1 and provide a central hub for all the northern cities. Spread the word!
that guy in the audience made the two most relevant comments i thought- why not just run a train every 15 or 30 minutes instead of once an hour- that'd double capacity- and who travels by train when it costs the earth?
I don't see as how a brand new line is going to be cheaper than existing trains. The first thing they'll do is hike the price of that line and other lines to pay for it. The money is going to come from you either way. I often get the St Pancreas train (about 7 carraiges) from London to Sheffield and it is mostly empty. Then I get the 'Trans Pennine Express' from Sheffield to Cleethorpes (three carraiges) and it is standing room only. You don't have to build a new line, just get these rubbish train companies to organize themselves.
Your government startdd building the channel , hs1 and this will help complete your high speed network for north south divide Once it is built it aill be possible to get to paris from manchester on single train journey
2:56 Michael Gove worried about inequality? Now that's news! But then again, a politician lying wouldn't be... no wonder he stumbled upon his own words and truncated the phrase, "the disproportionately wealthy uh uh a place for inward investment"... he could not believe what was coming out of his own mouth
Economic models are greatly flawed. Basically its ...lend me your watch and I'll tell you the time. French high speed was intended to revive and create enterprise and industries but because commuters could access Paris more quickly ,then house prices rose around hub towns and cities. Same old same ole. All those smaller projects that could be achieved.
HS2 is all about making it easier to get more people in London spending their money, and to make it easier for people working in London to commute into this gargantuan metropolis from further afield where property prices are cheaper. Scrap HS2 and use the money instead to re-direct the economic activity around the country using regional aid.
Not having a TV or buying newspapers - while hearing plenty of speech radio , makes for great novelty of not having the faintest of who is who ...is Will Self the guy at the R H end ? Goovvey sounds like he looks and the lady looks fun - tell me she’s from the Greens and I’ll give her my Vote for a start . Can I say that nowadays without some filthy minded busybody telling me I’m a pig ? 🏴😇❤️from wessexshire
HS2 Londoncentric project. Just look at Crossrail. It's over budget and overtime. The same will happen to HS2. They say it helps the north. But Birmingham is in the Midlands. The project stinks of lobbying and corruption. They're so out of touch these politicians.
LeamingtonSteve Existing network is obsolete. Today, high speed railway is needed to accomodate the needs of the 21st century. The only way trains could be more frequent is to increase the distance between them. So you must increase the speed of the trains. So UK needs a HSR. HSR have enormus capacity. They also run at very high speeds. That's what Britain needs.
My question is why don't we use a technology like the Hyperloop (et3) idea that Elon Musk put forward, it would cost less to build and be much faster than the currently proposed trains. Or we could just forget about a passenger line and have a freight line that would reduce the emissions the government keep going on about, because the trains we have now aren't that bad. We could even develop from the design for moving platforms that was put forward by the design firm Priestmangoode, that we would have trains that would connect to metro cars and wouldn't stop moving, meaning fewer delays and and faster journeys based on the fact the train doesn't have to stop (it's even a British design). et3 - www.et3.com/ Moving Platforms - www.priestmangoode.com/project/moving-platforms/
This country is drowning under the weight of too many cars on the road and has to redirect it's attention to the railways. HS2 is a Londoncentric idea and the money for it needs to be spent, instead, on the wholesale improvement of the national network.
HS2 is fucked. Look what the DFT have also done to the franchise situation. Lol. HS2 is only going as far as the midlands or possibly Crewe and then goes back into the normal west coast line. We have been sold a lie and taxpayers are paying for it. Look it up.
I have not met anyone who wants HS2. Has anybody else? what is the point of reducing the journey time by only 15 minutes, at a projected cost [which keeps rising] of £ 95,000,000,000.
I have read that HS2 is an agreement with the EU and the government is bound to carry it through otherwise the EU will be very unhappy. The truth behind the smoke and mirrors.
yawn yawn yawn......Goodbye! After years of under investment in public transport, pathetic.The reason behind 90% of the worlds problems = the oil industry.
These people are supposed to be conservative. JUST STOP SPENDING. The state already absorbs a ridiculous percentage of gdp. The market will the transport people value.
Stop Hs2 with that money you could build a hole fleet of steam locomotives scrap all emu,s build more steam locomotives, (Steam is king )do it now before its to late. Steam rules the rails all ways has all ways will end off.
At 7:30 Does this guy know what 2020 will look like?
HS2 isn't a corridor to the north. It's a corridor TO London. Nothing more.
You know, trains can also run in the other direction. And believe it or not - at some point they HAVE to run back to the north, otherwise all trains will be in London and there will be none left in the north to go to London! 😮 Unbelievable, right?
Three people had the Route altered at great cost !! The Queen , Lord Rothschild and Scamerons Father in Law , Lord Astor !!!
I think we need to start planning now for a rail network for the 22nd century. There is a major problem with new rail networks which is finding a suitable overground route so we end up building a lot of tunnels on the route. Why not accept the inevitable and build an underground rail network underneath the existing motorway network.
The idea would be to run passenger trains and vehicle trains like the Eurotunnel trains on this new underground network. The great benefit for electric powered trucks would be the ability to switch to the underground railway for the long distance part of their route. The service would include power charging so that the trucks can continue for the final part of their journey rather than wait at service centres to recharge.
The underground route would include links for passenger trains to the centres of cities.
If this is the future plan then we need to consider HS2 in this context.
Richard
Couldn't you edit this to just the content highlighted in the title of the video, rather than subjecting us to Michael Gove?
I like how everybody is baiting their collective breath in readiness to lay into the odious slimeball Michael Rnment (Gove, Rnement, Gedditt?!??!?)
As an ex pat, the last time I visited UK the train fares were astronomical
Will Self is the only one talking any sense, and i couldn`t care how he looks or sounds, the guy has a good brain.
true. He receives unjustified hate because his voice sounds condescending.
hes an arrogant buffoon
@@tomrawley6549false. You are giving him unjustified hate because his voice sounds condescending.
@@tomrawley6549 bring on the monkeys!
Read any of his books?
This is why tycoons donate to political parties; to get projects like this pushed through. Someone will be making a huge wad out of this if it goes ahead.
I would sadly be surprised if HS2 is stopped for the simple reason that Labour, Conservatives and the Lib Dems all support it. Watched Question Time recently and there was only one person that disagreed with it and that was a journalist. There were so few arguments between the politicians that I wondered why they had it as a question. Once again it will be the politicians ignoring what the majority of the public and voters want. Unless that changes HS2 will go ahead whatever we do.
jobs for the boys
HS2.. joke if you live in Wales. Scotland.. North East.. South West.... probably the worst if you live in ear shot of it too...
"I travel a great deal by train", said the man in the golden bowtie.
I thought that too. Maybe he built his aeroplane himself out of Meccano.
They say it took 20 years for the Egyptians to build the Giza pyramids.
And 70 years for teams of consultants to get it through the design, public consultation and procurement stages.
It took 6 million stones and 20 million emails.
I'm not saying that HS2 is needed or not, and look at the problem however you wish, the current railway system is vastly overloaded and SOMETHING has to be done, probably the best idea is HS2. THERE IS NO MORE CAPACITY ON THE CURRENT SYSTEM.
As a Scot, I'm absolutely delighted we'll be contributing around £5bn for a railway line hundreds of miles away. Just one of the many excellent reasons to vote No next year.
Donnel You're not alone in this state. You probably don't have a need for this railway, but some others do.
The same people have no need for the road connecting to your home, but they paid for it.
That's how a state functions. Otherwise we have anarchy.
Vote whatever you wish, Scotland remains in the UK.
Donnel there needs to be an independence referendum on a yearly basis until a YES vote is delivered.
revol148 Are you gonna pay for that?
Absolute Justice That's generally how elections work. A party releases a manifesto, people vote for that party, and then if they win, they enact their policies paying for them by taxation.
Happy to have cleared this up for you.
Absolute Justice And nope, the road going to my house (the new Forth crossing) is not being paid for by the potential users of HS2. It's being paid out of the Scottish Govts budget and EU funding. HS2 is coming out of UK taxation.
It all sounds great ! A new North - South Rail route ! What about the one the Tories got rid of ? That went from Marylebone to Sheffield and the beauty of it is that it was built to the Continental Loading Guage. Commonly referred to as the Great Central Railway.
Exactly!!! As always, we destroy and then regret. Great Britain??....I think not.
On point Mr kiss. When French built their high speed choo choo they told people the same as we are told. What it did is make Paris easier to get to and commuting increased from the south west and forced up house prices 200 km from Paris.
We've got video conferencing. Yes Terry, but videoconferencing won't get imported food from Dover to Carlisle will it?
Gove is right when he said that the whole point is to relieve congestion on WCML. A new railway is needed, fast or slow. The huge, massive cost for this project shows the real cost of the root problem of this, which is the Beeching Axe, more specifically destroying the Great Central Main Line, which would've handled current capacity if it still existed. Also, it was the only line with continental gauge, which would've facilitated freight traffic on rail from the continent once the Channnel Tunnel was built. Hmm, maybe the road lobby didn't want this, as Will Self suggested?
Because our train lines came first.
Same issue happens with the states regarding power since they aren't capable of transmitting 230V. Same as the fact that Korea has lightning fast internet because its infrastructure is fairly recent. Germany put a lot of investment into trains during WW2 so their trains run on time due to good infrastructure placement in a time of war.
The guy in the bow tie is the Megabus mascot so of course he doesn’t like trains
The BBC aired a documentary a little while ago called "The Railway: Keeping Britain on Track". Watching it, you realize how much work already goes into keeping plates spinning and how even a small delay can have repercussions on the other side of the country. With that in mind, I can only imagine how much more chaotic their job would be if they tried to double the amount of trains running at once, not to mention that when anything went wrong the results would be all the more catastrophic.
Bollocks concepts from bollocks politics!!
HS2 is principally about 'increased capacity' in relation to moving people down to London - increasing the reach and available labour pool in London with freight secondary. The North East to North West axis cities which include many top ranking universities: Hull, York, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, Huddersfield, Manchester / Salford, Liverpool are served by appalling rail rolling stock: antiquated bus coach cabs on antiquated bogeys. This rail axis lacks capacity with large scale delays and overcrowding and has been massively undefunded over many many years. Ironically Sheffield had the first electric rail line. Contrast this catchment area with the proposed new Cambridge - Milton Keynes - Oxford Rail link. Vacuous slogans such as 'the Northern Powerhouse' are supposed to beguile those in the North of England.
HS2 fares will be unaffordable for all but business executives, politicians and media.
Noise will be a significant issue.
Improving the North's existing rail infrastructure significantly is a very low priority compared to the white elephant vanity HS2, Crossrail 1 & 2, Cambridge to Oxford.
The consultants PwC, Kinsey, KPMG et al have regular ministerial access and influence and profoundly shape tax and infrastructure legislation in a much less democratic process than the much reviled EU. Likewise Offshore Private Equity a la George Osborne at Black Rock. Yet that seems wholly acceptable. Executive and non executive directorships for revolving door politicians play absolutely no part in facilitating this shameful gravy train.
in theory videoconferencing teleworking etc should help but in practice everyone still seems to want to cram all the significant economic activity in london... what would it take to make better use of the rest of the country
potholes all over the country never being fixed and he thinks its ok to spend a fortune in building a new road to manchester
The main purpose of this project is to siphon public money from the public purse into the pockets of Tory Donors. The new railway will carry executives who spend their time collecting high salaries for doing the same to our other public services. If these people were all sacked tomorrow the rest of us would be better off. We need public investment in house building, and manufacturing not finance and theft.
Since this video was made the cost has risen to £56Bn!
Liking the way Gove exposes his complete lack of regard for genuine environmental impacts (much like the rest of the failed 'greenest government ever') as if great crested newts and rare birds are just a waste of time...the same for Fracking - he also shows he has very little understanding of what is genuinely required in terms of meeting the real infrastructure needs in the UK; but then the government has no strategy for economic growth either so I guess this is what we can expect!
Constantly upgrading lines is waste of money in my opinion. The WCML was upgraded mid 00's for a cost of £14bn and guess what its already full, not forgetting the population is going to increase considerably in the next 10 years. The WCML is so old, double decker trains are impossible due to existing bridges etc. Our infrastructure is generally embarrassing compared to other countries, except for London, who are managing to spend billions on Crossrail projects without a blink of scrutiny from the public. The biggest benefit for HS2 however is connectivity. Speak to any property developer and they will tell you infrastructure is important, no one is going to invest if places lack connectivity.
In terms of if we can afford it, construction is a long project, the £42 bn will be spread out over the 17 years. It will be peanuts to our yearly annual budget. If you want to look at savings to projects that will have no benefit to me and you, look to trident.
London is the the UK's biggest asset, we need to connect it to the regions in order to spread growth and make Northern cities an attractive place to invest.
+Warren Brown Excellent comment. I live in Japan. I can only be in favour of HS2, being able to contrast the two rail networks. Anyone and I mean anyone who is against HS2 just seems to me an ill-informed Ruritanian nitwit, based on what I see here. NO fatalities in over 50 years, large cities in far-flung parts of the archipelago with easy reach, via the infrastructure of a vibrant economic landscape, north to south, east to west.
They have not upgraded correctly I spent 40 years on the railway so know what I am talking about privatisation has been a joke as its not private it's still payed for by the tax payer
much of the money we all pay in tax that goes into the railway ends up going to private operates not the rail way that's why the operators all climb over each other to get the franchises they are government back shareholders.
Much of the rolling stock is payed for using your tax in the first place to build them then leased at cost price to the operators.
Subcontractors abound from tree clearance too relaying track they all cost a fortune often fail to deliver then NWR (you) are the ones who foot the delay bills and there are a very limited number of companies NWR can use so no real competition .
There is capacity for more trains but it needs the money that has been wasted putting in the right places not squandering by politicians and new style management that know squat about the railway.
the super expensive hs2 which the whole political class have a hard on for which will get you to birmingham 15 mins quicker is a strange idea.
Well, this bears up our own experience, never meeting or speaking to anyone who thinks this monstrous proposal makes any sense, (there again we don't know anyplanners or consultants who has already well paid so far out of the public purse) - the overwhelming reaction is a big fat NO, NO, NO to HS2!
They were never serious about it going beyond Birmingham. It’s just another London commuter service
Well, I suppose the main factors would be historic under-investment by successive governments, corruption and general ineptitude in route planning and economic management. But these are hardly unique to Britain. One problem particular to the UK is the London-centric problem, and the fact that our capital sits in the south-eastern corner, relatively close to the bridgehead with the continental Europe. And that, of course, is sheer geography and history.
The TREES want you to know that they have no suicidal thoughts or ideologies of burning them selves down. They wish you to know they are happy and intend to live a long and healthy live helping humanity breath clean air and making homes for wildlife and birds.
It definitely needs to be scrapped and I love up north, I’d rather see that money get plowed into modernising our current tracks and making our rail fares cheaper
When HS2 was lazily designed, copying GreenGuage 21's strange proposal, they never bothered to inquire if Liverpool's rail demands would increase. They never knew about the proposed new Superport. Liverpool is the only deep water port on that coast.
The Liverpool in-river Superport takes the Maersk Triple-E container ships of 20,000 containers, the largest ships in the world. The average size ocean going container ship is approx 5,000 containers. So one of these is the equivalent of 5 average containers ship. The new berth can take two Triple-Es.
But!!! It takes some shifting of 20,000 containers, never mind 40,000. Only rail can do that. The roads to the port are choking up with trucks as it stands. The rail provision is woefully inadequate. The terminal currently can only deal with smaller ships because the transport infrastructure is not up to it. Few Tripe-Es will berth until the rail transport is uprated. There is a plan to ferry container by barge up the Manchester Ship Canal, however this will only scratch the surface. There is also suggestions of barging them over to Birkenhead docks and reinstating rail there for southern bound containers. Trade with North America is increasing and moreso with Brexit. Then there is also the North West Passage. The Chinese are building strong hulled ships to sail in convoy through the passage. Liverpool will be the natural port for these ships being on the right side of the country.
On the announcement of HS2, the Port of Liverpool immediately complained that they need a dedicated HS2 line to Liverpool to alleviate the existing rail for freight and more provision must be made in existing lines. TfN have agreed with this and want a new high-speed HS3/Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR) line to Liverpool. The port is within one hour of 60% of the UKs population. It is essential for industry that the city and port are served well with rail.
The City of Liverpool contracted ResRepublica, a right leaning consultancy/think tank, to present and lobby its case, offering £2 billion to connect the city to HS2. An independent pressure organisation 20 Miles More appeared as did a few others. The rail provision to the port benefits the whole of the north of England and beyond. It gives cheaper and quicker transport of goods. All the councillors and MPs in the 'Liverpool City Region' should organise and be banging on desks in Whitehall. Even towns and cities should protest well away from city, as they will gain. ResRepublica said Liverpool should have been the first city on the list for HS2.
The city's metro, Merseyrail was to be one third larger, but men were pulled off site 40 years ago leaving about 4.5 miles of disused tunnels under the city. No work has been restarted. There have been some minor extensions to Chester and the likes, but little to what was cancelled. In the meantime London has had Underground extensions, the 30 odd station DLR, the Overground, Thameslink, Crossrail and fast airport lines, while Liverpool got to near zero.
The mayor has had to resort to threatened to cut a station in one of the disused tunnels to embarrass HMG/DfT to run in tracks. The city drew up plans for the station. Central underground station is one of the country's busiest in platform length. It is dangerously overcrowded and needs a few more platforms with the space available to do it. The city needs the metro finishing desperately.
Yet the city 30 miles down the road is having built for it free, a tunnel under Crewe station, a station that will be little used at Manchester airport, long lengths of _curving_ HS2 track and a disproportionately expensive 7.5 mile 'branch' tunnel serving a _'terminal'_ station facing the wrong way. It is not as if Manchester is a Munich or Barcelona, it is not, if far from a city of that status, equal to Liverpool and Leeds. *None of it makes sense. None of it.*
How come other countries manage to install high speed rail (japan) but we are so shit and constantly moan at everything. Never agreed with micheal gove ever. But he's right about somebody moaning about something. And you can't please everyone, if you try you please no one
Why have a railway from London to only Manchester and Leeds. What about Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow ? And is it even much faster than current railways ? And, is it fast compared to fast rail in other countries ?
the money for hs2 could be spent on making the existing lines better and you would probably get change out of it
My question would be will HS2 solve the problem of the lorry congestion on our roads? There is talk of moving more freight by rail but whilst the government gets so much in revenue from diesel spent on lorries they will not alter the method of freight transport in this country. The idea that HS2 will benefit commuters is already being doubted - as more video conferencing takes place so travel will reduce.
4:55 Right there! that's your new Tory government right there!
8:18 That was Ernest Marples fault.
That's not how money works. The government can have as much money as it wants, if it thinks the benefit will be further economic growth in the long run. You all need to study basic monetary theory.
Didn't think I'd ever Agree with a UKIP MP but he was spot on in what he said, instead of privatising the railways 20 years ago they should have spent money on improving them or at very least had the private companies that run on and buy the lines sign a consensus saying they would improve the service on a 5 yearly basis as demand and need came along in the future. It's too inconsistent with rail travel, look at our European Neighbours and how well they have done with their train systems it is possible and we shouldn't be having to spend shedloads of a whole new line due to not sorting this out 15-20 years ago when it NEEDED IT!
But the railways have been improved during the Private era. Having said that, privatization wasn't handled well at all and I kinda agree that the private cos should own their track (that they operate on).
Owen Evans Have you been on a train recently? Too few carriages, filthy conditions, outdated carriages, pre-booked seats that don't exist? under paid staff, late/delayed trains with no right to claim money back unless you have been 'majorly inconvienced' the list goes on.
Cash Back Quite a few misinterpretations there...
"Too few carriages"- I agree with this, the Crosscountry Voyagers are a good example. However, this all depends on platform lengths etc
"outdated carriages"- Depends on where you live, most of the trains round Birmingham are >20 years old, and don't forget the new fleets that we are due (IEP, AT-200's, Crossrail and Thameslink trains among others)
"pre-booked seats that don't exist"- Not really a massive issue is it.
" under paid staff"- Depends what you mean by staff, drivers earn 40-60k PA, depending on their link and TOC.
"late/delayed trains with no right to claim money back unless you have been 'majorly inconvienced"- Some delays are unavoidable, e.g. suicides.
it's nearer 50 billion now. The cost rises every week. All to get to Birmingham 20 minutes quicker. Great.
A maglev spinal line through the UK
Not already dated tech 20 years in the future!
I would rather we spend that 50 billion on a manned mission to Mars than HS2.
I just don't get it, I'm hearing nothing pro but "healing the north/south divide". All I know about this divide is that in the north, the housing is cheaper and the wages are lower. How is halving the train transport times between a few major cities supposed to raise the wealth of the wider northern community??
Run Hs2 to Finningly airport and make that London's next runway. It can run next to the M1 and provide a central hub for all the northern cities. Spread the word!
The needs of the many outweigh the few.
that guy in the audience made the two most relevant comments i thought- why not just run a train every 15 or 30 minutes instead of once an hour- that'd double capacity- and who travels by train when it costs the earth?
Kris Wilkinson - 😂😂😂 "just" ... The rail network and junction control system would need a big rethink.
I don't see as how a brand new line is going to be cheaper than existing trains. The first thing they'll do is hike the price of that line and other lines to pay for it. The money is going to come from you either way. I often get the St Pancreas train (about 7 carraiges) from London to Sheffield and it is mostly empty. Then I get the 'Trans Pennine Express' from Sheffield to Cleethorpes (three carraiges) and it is standing room only. You don't have to build a new line, just get these rubbish train companies to organize themselves.
Sorry! Robin Hood airport is what we call it now.
Has everyone forgot the debacle of the Olympics cost? Oh sorry it's going to be more as we forgot the VAT? LoL
Anyone voting tory requires their brains testing...
Interesting how they don't publish the cost benefits, simple because they don't wan't the public seeing their guess work.
Feed the people, stop the foodbanks, it's a disgrace. The country can't afford to feed its people so it can't afford a new railway line.
put it to a vote like brexit
Your government startdd building the channel , hs1 and this will help complete your high speed network for north south divide
Once it is built it aill be possible to get to paris from manchester on single train journey
Its their/everyones right to say they dont want it. Its their everyones right to voice their opinion. What tosh GOVE speaks and always has.
O doctor beacing what have you done.
2:56 Michael Gove worried about inequality? Now that's news! But then again, a politician lying wouldn't be... no wonder he stumbled upon his own words and truncated the phrase, "the disproportionately wealthy uh uh a place for inward investment"... he could not believe what was coming out of his own mouth
Economic models are greatly flawed. Basically its ...lend me your watch and I'll tell you the time. French high speed was intended to revive and create enterprise and industries but because commuters could access Paris more quickly ,then house prices rose around hub towns and cities. Same old same ole. All those smaller projects that could be achieved.
one word, Maglev
HS2 is all about making it easier to get more people in London spending their money, and to make it easier for people working in London to commute into this gargantuan metropolis from further afield where property prices are cheaper. Scrap HS2 and use the money instead to re-direct the economic activity around the country using regional aid.
Move Parliament to St Helens.
Not having a TV or buying newspapers - while hearing plenty of speech radio , makes for great novelty of not having the faintest of who is who ...is Will Self the guy at the R H end ? Goovvey sounds like he looks and the lady looks fun - tell me she’s from the Greens and I’ll give her my Vote for a start . Can I say that nowadays without some filthy minded busybody telling me I’m a pig ? 🏴😇❤️from wessexshire
should be building nuclear power stations to charge electric vehicles hs2 has no benefit
HS2 Londoncentric project. Just look at Crossrail. It's over budget and overtime. The same will happen to HS2. They say it helps the north. But Birmingham is in the Midlands. The project stinks of lobbying and corruption. They're so out of touch these politicians.
Why does this woman in the red keep laughing? No one made a joke.
a slightly faster rail line will solve years of neglect and inequality and bring the country together.A rail line will do all that.Mmmm...
hyperloop
What about the farmland that would be taken out of production .
We have got to feed the extra millions that have flooded into our country.
Bryn Miller You'll import food from France.
Not now you won`t.Know all know nothing.
bobzilla211 Do your maths.
Micheal Gove is such a TOSSER.
HS2 is an EU diktat.
I am pro-rail, but longer trains and more frequent trains on the existing network is the answer.
how is UK govt policy created in westminster by british politicians to build infrastructure in the UK an EU diktat?
EU says what it wants and the UK govt does it.
LeamingtonSteve Existing network is obsolete. Today, high speed railway is needed to accomodate the needs of the 21st century. The only way trains could be more frequent is to increase the distance between them. So you must increase the speed of the trains. So UK needs a HSR.
HSR have enormus capacity. They also run at very high speeds. That's what Britain needs.
+LeamingtonSteve your talking about a victorian network batched up and creeking at the seems.
That would mean far more money spent on maintenance and repair of a system built 100 years ago how many people do you want to kill ?
Louise Cooper chomping at the bit to speak and when she does she comes out with nothing constructive. Fat lot of use having her on the panel.
France will own and run the the HS2 and use there trains from from the EU and to run all over the UK THERE IS A MAP OF IT ON YOU TUBE GO FIND IT
m6 toll for trains
My question is why don't we use a technology like the Hyperloop (et3) idea that Elon Musk put forward, it would cost less to build and be much faster than the currently proposed trains. Or we could just forget about a passenger line and have a freight line that would reduce the emissions the government keep going on about, because the trains we have now aren't that bad. We could even develop from the design for moving platforms that was put forward by the design firm Priestmangoode, that we would have trains that would connect to metro cars and wouldn't stop moving, meaning fewer delays and and faster journeys based on the fact the train doesn't have to stop (it's even a British design).
et3 - www.et3.com/
Moving Platforms - www.priestmangoode.com/project/moving-platforms/
Draining more money south
Get rid of national rail service because it's pricey spend money 43 billion pound on the NHS stap 🔪hs2 ☠️
Will Self 7:50
No doubt Scotland will end up paying billions, for fuck all good to Scotland.
Will Self-Obsessed is a crap idea as well. Scrap his frequent appearances on QT please.
at this time labour would say we want that but we dont but we do
This country is drowning under the weight of too many cars on the road and has to redirect it's attention to the railways. HS2 is a Londoncentric idea and the money for it
needs to be spent, instead, on the wholesale improvement of the national network.
HS2 is fucked. Look what the DFT have also done to the franchise situation. Lol. HS2 is only going as far as the midlands or possibly Crewe and then goes back into the normal west coast line. We have been sold a lie and taxpayers are paying for it. Look it up.
1.Communicate using Skype etc.
2. Send goods overnight.
Why do we need HS2?
I have not met anyone
who wants HS2.
Has anybody else?
what is the point of
reducing the journey
time by only 15 minutes, at a projected cost
[which keeps rising]
of £ 95,000,000,000.
Stick in a hyper-loop. Half the cost. Cheaper to run. Not based on 150 year old rail technology
That abhorant lefty Will Self looks straight out of a Vincent Price movie
This isn't Japan. We don't need high speed trains. We are only a small island
I have read that HS2 is an agreement with the EU and the government is bound to carry it through otherwise the EU will be very unhappy. The truth behind the smoke and mirrors.
yawn yawn yawn......Goodbye! After years of under investment in public transport, pathetic.The reason behind 90% of the worlds problems = the oil industry.
bowtie
Will Self is a crap idea
These people are supposed to be conservative. JUST STOP SPENDING. The state already absorbs a ridiculous percentage of gdp. The market will the transport people value.
Yes HS2 biggest waste of money, heard it's going from 70 billion to 152 billion....we could pay off EU and be quids in....
Stop Hs2 with that money you could build a hole fleet of steam locomotives scrap all emu,s build more steam locomotives, (Steam is king )do it now before its to late.
Steam rules the rails all ways has all ways will end off.