Guards Rifle Infantry VS Guards Airborne Troops - CoH2 Guide
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- An in-depth comparison of two Soviet long-range combat specialists: Guards Rifle Infantry and Guards Airborne Troops
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IMPORTANT: I left out the fact that GUARDS AIRBORNE can fire their DPs ON THE MOVE!
That's right and in guard rilfe squads only 2 models shoot while moving, tough that can be helped with m5 or m3 cars, the guards even swap their weapons in the car depending on fighting inf or vehicle. Worth to note the recieved accuracy bonus is better on these guards, but the airbourne guards can heal out of combat both abilities very useful when the squad is merged with shitty conscrips.
Hi Gonk! Also a small thing: the ability of the classic guards gets disabled if the tanks launches smoke, or if the vision of the guard gets blocked
Lol was just about to leave a comment pointing that out but of course you would be on it ;)
@@aphelleon7395 Worth noting too that its 2 mosins vs 3 SVTs on the move
Not really surprised, I’ve always felt that normal guards outperformed their airborne counter parts. No wonder why they are spammed so hard by the soviets
By the way Gonk, All Anti-Tank Rifles do full damage to models in cover, Penal/Con PTRS just only does 20 damage with abysmal accuracy (Penals were about 0.20% and Cons were 0.10% @ 15m). Meanwhile the Boys Anti-Tank Rifle actually is pretty similar to the Guards PTRS with 27 damage and high accuracy vs infantry (0.50% @ 15m) . I was kind of skeptical but Boys Sections are actually pretty legit Anti-Infantry units, especially in hard cover fighting where they just delete the enemy cover and wreck shop
I think they're highly slept on at the moment. 2 Command Points doesn't do them any favors though as a mainline replacement but I'm a fan of Brit builds where you can skip Bolster and/or Racks.
Master Tightrope has been using them in some off meta builds with good results, check him out!
If PTRS does full damage to full cover units
How do both units stand out in a out of cover 1v1 ?
@GonkOrange
I love getting the Airborne and giving them the ppsh package. It's free, they get camo and smoke. Very handy for vision and ambush.
Id really love to see how all the ppsh41 units stack up against shocks. Shocks are so insane upclose that it hard to get an idea for what other close range units are goo to use.
How about assault Guards with thompsons?
Shock will lose to them if they are not on top of each other
Fun fact: ASSAULT guards has the lowest dodge veterancy bonus amongst all types of guards.
Lmao, and they are the ones that need it the most
@@alexanderjanssona.8519 ikr
Great video, thank you so much!!!
For me as a team game player, the button ability is really the key to why I love my guards so much
Do keep in mind that the Airborne Guards can infiltrate, which means they can cause a lot of damage, such as flanking weapon teams and snipers upon their very deployment.
I was surprised, I expected Airborn guards to shine against infantry at long range.
I am looking foward for the comparison between cqc Assault and Airborn guards, there is not better felling that trowing 6 granades to an enemy blob.
Great video as always and very informative as I'm a soviet main. I know it might not fit the format but a comparison between the sturmtiger and AVRE might be nice because I'm very curious about the difference between the two vehicles. Keep making the great content!
Are you from pk?
well at least Guards Airborne have those nice blue hats.
Would it be possible to request a video on the Okw Heat round ability, exactly how it works against armor and infantry, and if its worth using against infantry with eg the Puma. I personally find that using it on the P4 makes the shot suck against infantry, may just be rngesus fucking me over.
Button vehicle ability can be easily stopped by a smoke
Oh do Allied basic unit overview should be an interesting topic, which one the best unit
Maybe they should add the ligth camouflage version to the airborne, it would solidify their identity and make them very potent in certain ambush scenario, where guard will just be good every where
you run of the risk of having a too powerful commando squad for it's price, almost nullifying the british ones
They get camo with the PPsh upgrade
@@GonkOrange wait lol since when? i've never seen them used
@@R0bertRodriguez
They get it for free when you upgrade with the free ppsh upgrade. Personally I have two build orders when using the commander, I go for PPsh guards when I'm doing SVT cons and then DP guards when I'm using penals.
The PPsH airborne guards packs quite a punch in dealing damage, the camo + the target ability shreds infantry quickly, even more so if you're utilizing both DP and PP air guards
How about do the ptrs next? I think it interest to cover this weapon since it on alot of units.
I did testing about guards and airborne for many times now because i couldn't t believe how good they are always.
In fact guards rifle beat any inf in-game long range with or without cover like you did. Sometimes lose to obers in green to green cover vet 0 both.
But vet 3 guards and vet 5 obers, obers lose decisively against guards rifle
Making in my opinion guards rifle the best inf unit in-game
I suggest you do your tests again. I just tested 4 times. Guards airborne (Vet 3) lost every time against Obers (vet 5) in heavy cover at 30 range.
@@GonkOrange Did you use hit the dirt ability ?
@@ozisponas1593 Airborne Guards do not get "hit the dirt"
@@GonkOrange holy crap i am stupid
i wrote guard airborne when all that time i meant guards rifle
lmao
sry my bad
Thanks for that PPŠ pronunciation.
круто, спасибо. полезное видео
On the subject of the PTRS , is the Penal version better vs vehicle ? Or it is like a stock PTRS without the anti inf bonus ?
Its much less accurate and does less damage to infantry. It's (much) worse than their SVT against infantry
I have a question about all 3 guards (Assault Guards, Guards rifle, Airborne)
Does all of the intel bulletins regarding them affect all of them or only the standard guards rifles?
Sometimes the descriptions could be misleading, especially when one of the bulletins have the description "Guards deal 2% more armor piercing damage" even though the airborn guards doesnt have any anti tank capabilities which is confusing.
The bulletins should affect them all (or so I've been told)
@@GonkOrange is there a way to test bulletins?
@@drsaadsheikh you can check them in mod tools. Do a search on coh2.org
You should compare them against axis infantry as well. Also time to kill should also be compared.
I think firing on the move is quite good but don't know how much it effects accuracy
Edit : I am sad. I love airborne guards. I actually made a comparison of air guards against falls back few years ago
The DPS is halved on the move
@@GonkOrange ptrs has a slower rate of fire. What was the result of vet 3 guards without firing positions vs vet 3 airborne guards?
@@drsaadsheikh I didn't do the test without firing positions, but I'm confident guards rifle would still win.
@@GonkOrange is it also halved for SVTs? Do they not have the same G43 treatment of 90% accuracy on the move?
Yeah it's half for the SVT as well
What’s it like in yellow/no cover?
i tested this too, i think its just bugs, default guards just bugged in good way , but airbourne has a bugged dp, they sometimes "fapping" them after reload for 4-5 seconds, guess thats the reason in dps
So the guard rifles with the PTRS is that gigachad from RO2 that uses the the PTRS religiously to the point that he is more effective with it than you are with you rifle
the Guard Bulletins affect all type of guards (Rifle, Assualt, Airborne, etc) or is it just 1 specific guard unit?
They affect all guards units.
Only affects Rifles and Assault, not airborne because assault and rifle guard models based on regular guard entities while airborne models based on sniper entities
Very nice video, would like to know how to counter pathfinders spam as whermackt, i struggle in the early game and if i try to go for a 222 or a flame hafltruck at gun or bazookas are very colose to the pathfinders making the light vehicles option persolany hatr, sorry for eventual grammar errors im not good at english.
Think of them as jager infantry, he has a video comparing the 2. Their fire rate is very slow but very accurate so the best thing to do is to actually charge them. If they are mixing it with rifles, then get 1 assault green or close range unit as a flanker and keep hitting him back. The grenadiers can take quite a few hits compared to pathfinders so move from cover to cover and charge those suckers
The best solution I found was a sniper build. If I’m vsing USF in 2v2 I don’t build the MG and instead go 1 gren 1 sniper into 2 more greens and focus LMG upgrades. The sniper really hammers the pathfinders if kept behind your grend and Pio. 2 model drops and they will retreat and becomes more effective when it unlocks stun rounds. Just always remember to screen with engineers to spot camo pathfinders and keep a gren near the sniper for snares around light vehicle timing. I will warn I’ve used this effectively vsing USF ranked 250-450. Better player it may not work against.
@@ablet85 very cool build order thank you very much :)
@@kidgameerboy9932 probably good but i dont trust assgren because i also meet often assault engeniers from brits and for some reason those "engeniers" can trade very well whit assgren, maybe im just bad.
In 2v2 I often face pathfinder spam captain builds with AA halftrack and AT gun. The best way I have found to deal with this is to skip mg42 and go into 4 grenadiers. The reason is because pathfinders hard counter mg42 play as they can spot it before it starts firing and grenadiers can beat pathfinders in the early game. I then follow it up with triple 222s, this sounds crazy but hear me out. By the time you have your third 222 on the battlefield, they usually have an AA halftrack and 1 AT gun. If you orchestrate the attack effectively, an all out assault with 222s and grenadiers is devastating. The 222s shred the AA halftrack in seconds and there are no snares to stop them rushing the AT gun. If you are effective with the grenadiers, they can prevent the at gun from setting up and firing on your 222s as they rush the AA halftrack. Sometimes when I do this play, it is game ending and the opponent quits because they lose their AT gun, AA halftrack and there is nothing stopping the 222s from wiping all their squads.
Well designed Relic...
It gives me good video topics though!
@@GonkOrange I think it is the result of many adjustments to the game through the years.
@@GonkOrange lelic moment
Guide on Assaukt Guard next?
Honestly I never find a worth while reason to use Ass Guard or Air Guard since there is a already better and cost effective option
If you clost range you use Shock, you want mid range you use Cons or Penal, you want long range you use Guard
First, you don't get multiple Guards in the same doctrine
Second, both Assault and Airborne Guard can get the weapon that match the battle field.
U have lots of MP and Muni but lack Fuel because all people rush to Fuel but you end up losing? Get Zooks Guard. You don't know if in the future long range or short range fight is better? The Air Guard can wait for you
You are losing the infantry game? All Guards can help you with their play styles
@@scorpiontdalpha9799 shock already fill the role of Ass Guard with better performance
For AT I just gonna go for extra AT gun with snare, better range and utilitywhen combine with Guard button ability and flare and AT gun camo
Ironically most of the long range batlle yoh fight will be vs Ober or Gren which Cons or regular Gurad just does that far cheaper/better than air guard
@@rifle3888 Then you just make all elite units worthless. Why get Ober at all? Volks or Fuserliers are cheaper
Stuka and Wefer can easily kill team weapons when they get spotted while you can dodge better with your infantries
Also, still that problem with your argument. Elites for Soviet are not in a same commander.
Yes, Shock are better than Ass Guard with Thompson but I go with Anti Infantry or Lend Lease, how am I going to get Shock Troops?
I go with Airborn, how can I get Guard Rifle?
Also that point about using AT gun camo with button only works if you choose the commanders and the buildings that allow you to do that.
There are people who skip weapon support for the overall better main line being penals so they don't have anything good vs Tank other than PTRS penals or Su 76 or Ass Zooks
@@scorpiontdalpha9799 its called cost effective. Ober worth to go because it can maul 3 model before they even lost 1
Cons worth to go because they are cheap, lots of utility and durable with decent firepower
Yes rocket arty can kill your tram weapon but you can move and you can recrew them easy. Are you willingly to lost 4 model that cost 144 MP to replave total or just 63 to recrew them
Also I would choose better doctrine lol, I didnt say anything about X doctrine have X unit that does this, I am saying that give X unit performace it is not worth to go for them when there is already better option
Camo is a bonus, not a must
Skip the SU 76 and save for an actual tank while either back tech or use M42 AT gun, at the point you need such AT is the point you deal with light vehicle and the M42 job is for that or get regular Guard or more AT penal
@@rifle3888 Your argument really center around how you play, not the variety of option that you can choose.
Yes, I lost my high vet squad, lets build new conscripts so that they get demolished by high vet Ober instead of TRYING to catch up by using Guards
Also, are you really going to blame people because of the doctrine they choose? "Oh, don't go with this or that doctrine because it doesn't have Guard Rifles or Shocks". It is not the fault of the commander, it is the player's if they win or lose.
Are you really going to make people believe that you have like the best way to play. I don't want to do the things you want to do and it is not because I am dumb but because I feel my way of playing is more effective.
Why bother back teching to get an AT gun that can easily get flanked and nuked by arty while I can deploy Zooks Guards that give similar result
Question: does the airborne guard benefits from the guard Intel bulletins?
Yes
сровни гвардейцев с обер солдатами пж
I'm sure airborne guards win hard at shorter range tho, cos svt. Plus they can fire on the move, making them a better jack of all trades infantry. While they aren't the best assault infantry, they're a lot better than guard rifles at that job.
Yeah the thing is DPs (and light MGs in general) generally want to engage other infantry at long range, making closing in with Guards airborne pretty illogical.
It's a weird unit and sadly underperforms compared to guards rifle.
I personally still use them if I go terror doctrine though.
It's very strange how the guards rifle can do this well against a dedicated infantry division at long range.
Logically those svt's would shred with just rate of fire alone, but as we see that's not the case.
Now if the airborne unit would be advancing at the guards rifle the outcome would be different, those svt's would be a good advantage at medium/close range and firing on the move.
That's what the player should be doing anyway with it.
no, if the airborne advanced on the guards rifle in cover they would be absolute shredded.
The SVTs and DPs get -50% DPS while moving
@@GonkOrange Well i think that needs to be changed cause that is way too punishing for airborne
I can't do anything about it ;) sadly this is likely the way the game will be forever.
@@GonkOrange indeed, i wonder if they'll do the same for coh3 with there units.
VDV !!!!! ON A ONE WAY TRIP
As a noob i'm huge Guards Rifle Infantry fanboy because i can make 3-4 of them and they melt AI's small vehicles even light tanks and i'm watching this with face like:
: D
Uhm, actually, u need to play 2 airborne guard squad, 1 with ppsh and 1 with dp, the ppsh squad have the mark target infantry which when combine with guards dp will vaporize everything
But overal, just use ppsh on airbone guard since they can cammo, and their ppsh when shoot agaisnt mark unit is extremely deadly as well
Uhm, actually, I mentioned in the video that I'll talk about Soviet Close quarters units in another video
@@AkatsukiReji they have very bad received accuracy hence not a suitable unit for close quarters
So does this mean Guards Rifles are overperforming or that Airborne Guards are underperforming?
Yes and yes
Wtf button goes away if the guards move??
I expected a bit more testing on that strange DPS difference. Is it maybe just in max range heavy cover fights? What actually is the thing? PTRS being super good? Guards being way out of line and airborne too weak, or airborne bugged or?
"I expected a bit more testing" dude who are you? Do you think this is my job? I work 8 hours a day. Do more testing yourself if you're unsatisfied.
Yes the advantage is because of the effectiveness of the PTRS.
@@GonkOrange Sure but it felt really cut off short with the conclusion being not clear. Maybe testing is the wrong word, but explanation about the conclusion.
@@ShrikeGFX What is unclear? The conclusion of the test is that the PTRS are overperforming against infantry.
I don't understand what other tests you want me to do.
The matchup only becomes more unbalanced when the Guards Rifle gets the Firing Positions ability.
My main question is why do you pair units of same faction against one another?
Because you pick between two units of the same faction...?
There's never a situation where you need to pick between two units of different factions
@@GonkOrange I mean in what situation you gonna fight soviets mirror? Sorry for being out of date, but I remember you couldn't pick allies in german team.
I don't understand your point.
The idea of this video is to decide which you should pick when playing soviets.
@@GonkOrange Okay. What I meant is to compare those 2 units you'd better pair them against german analogs.
If guards will never meet in fight against each other, then what's the point?
Because comparing them head to head shows which is better.
If guards rifle beats airborne at long range it also means they will perform better against any axis target at long range.
另外，我認為用重型掩體作為比較標準不好，後期戰場上幾乎不會存在重型掩體
更多是無掩體或是輕型掩體的彈坑
還有，對手應該是敵方(德軍)部隊，對射自己人的表演 並沒有意義
Without firing positions the guards in fact start losing to airborne guards vet2 onwards
Why wouldn't you use firing positions tho?
我用過空降部隊，但是我馬上後悔了，他們的生存能力跟戰鬥能力都不如預期，甚至可以說是相當的弱
守衛隊還比較好用，自帶PTRD 有很強的反坦克能力，升級DP 就有足夠的火力，兩隊一起輪流開技能可以直接捉死沖得太過前面的灰熊或豹式(需要AT 支援)，十分標準的全能型蘇聯部隊，而且補充速度又便宜、做為主力完全沒有問題
PS：他們的手榴彈真的好用
Guards airborne must be used with ppsh 100%.
Guards Rifle Infantry op
The ptrs is just too good. Its anti-inf values need to be nerfed
I must say this tests weren't really that useful, you should compare airborne guard to it's matchups, mainly MG 42 gren and obersoldaten, the result is much of the same, but airborne guards get way better with vet against all opponents, they can 1v1 vet 5 obersoldaten at long range and grens become a joke since they're not elites.
Still I thank you for teaching why guard rifles are better, I always thought they just turned easy mode on, now I see why lol
If the guards rifle does better at long range against the airborne guards, that means they will do better than the airborne against obers. That seems obvious
@@GonkOrange could be but obers are real different, they win almost always against airborne guard when both not vetted. So it's not about which guard squad is best, rather how well they work on a plausible engagement. Just showing one is better than the other is obviously the objective of the video but I would argue that is way more informative with the matchups because one gets the impression that air guards are pretty worthless, costing the same resources and all.
I didn't say they're worthless. I said they're worse than guards rifles
@@GonkOrange Yeah, that why I wrote "gets the impression"
Assault guards being forgotten by people as usual
Lol I said I'd do a video about cqc Soviet unit later
@@GonkOrange ahem my bad
Assault guards are better than both
The guards are totally getting nerfed after this video
Finally
No
airborne guards ar dogshit but theres a catch , they have 3 weapon slots and if u can fill all 3 of them with german lmgs they become probably the most potent long range anti inf unit in the game , and they can fire german lmgs on the move too , DPs ar just bad on them unfortunately
i need to correct myself here, DPs are bad yes but airbourne guards are also bad , i ve been trying them with ppsh lately and they deal 0 dmg they are just terrible infantry and dont recommend their use other than stealing panzershreks since they can carry 3 and meybe then they can be a bit useful
I remember when airborne guards where drop via air drop.
Same. I remember when they spawned with free immediate ppsh upgrade
@@drsaadsheikh That was back when the pictures for the doctrines were less detailed.
"axis op"