I agree these "examples" were NOT "Showroom STOCK" ...!!! BUT the HP figures they are giving ARE based on the Factory Engines, and NOT by testing these cars! It was probably much easier to find cars available for the video that were 'stock' appearance and some dramatic -- and somewhat nonsensical -- burnouts. But I grew up thru this era and had friends with these cars, and even got to drive many of them myself. I go into some detail in an above comment, so no point repeating here. But the "Horsepower Race" was almost immediately met with HUGE Insurance premiums and public outcry about safety and 'street racers' -- sound familiar..?? So, by under-rating the cars, by using 'true' numbers from lower rpms they simply changed the ads from "Peak HP" to "Rated at XXXHP @ Y,YYY RPM" ... And YES, hard-rubber-compound Bias-Ply 5 1/2" to 7" wide tires can be FRIED by almost ANY car with 200 HP or so...
You're not going to find very many owners of original or restored cars who will agree to any full throttle operation. As I understand it, a huge number of restored cars are never fired after completion!
I concur and being i've seen several more reliable videos, (than one with a Boss 429 in a non Boss 429 or any other Ford car in those years color with 18" wheels on it, ) that had Hemi on the dyno for everyone to see not just typed on a screen, and both were in the 570 range not and if you meant 570 than NO PASS for not proofing your shit and posting with typos, but judging from the Resto-Mods it wasn't a misprint in your head anyway
In 1970 there was a dealer option for the Buick GS. It was called the Stage 2. At the time Motor Trend said it was the fastest stock car they had ever tested. It did the 1/4 mi in the 10's.
I got to speak to the bloke who designed the stage 1 motor and he reckon the reason they quoted 360 was to get it into a particular race class and said the actual hp was 376. He reckons the torque they produced was what made them so quick. The old hp sells cars, torque wins races.
@@kurtcameron723 the bloke I spoke to was Denny manner who was head of engine design from 59 to 96. Well known in the Buick club and I got to hear him speak in a crowded room of about 300 buick owners at the 2006 buick nationals of his experiences as head of engine design while at buick.
I had a 1970 Vette convertible with an LT1 engine that produced 370 hp and a Muncie close ratio 4sp. Great engine, tons of fun but very cantankerous. Many a days I was replacing jets in the Holley double pump due to a weather change! The newer engines are far superior to even the big blocks of old. Much more horsepower per cube, far better economy and much more livable in day to day driving. It took 30+ years but the big blocks of the 70's are no longer the big dog on the street as its now easy to get 600+ hp out of the factory!
In searching my googles on those early 60's swiss cheese lightweight temptest lemans Pontiac's featuring that 421, tuned up with dual quads and headers it was a secret weapon, in bigger Bonneville's, Grand Prix's Catalina 2+2, researching into these 421's a while back, there were more then a few articles claiming that the 421 was vastly underated at at 405 but really had upwards of 480 horse power...8)
The pontiac V8 design in most configurations with stock performance heads and stock performance cam was good for about 1 hp per cubic inch. The 421 was fairly oversquare, with a bore considerably larger than it's stroke, which makes for better high rpm performance, but stock pontiac heads didn't flow very well at ultra high rpm, so there was some trade-off. Some pontiac head designs from the late 60s and early 70s flowed better, but the 421 was discontinued before they were made. So, in my opinion, 376 is probably fair, maybe slightly under rated, with the true gross output likely being around 390 to 400.
That Pontiac motor was really Stout in fact Big Chief from Street Outlaws actually made it into the pro mods top 16 US Nationals with the stock 421 motor, the only stock block motor there and it didnt win anything but still that's pretty impressive.
Fantastic Memories and even more awesome HP Figures then I knew! Been around a LOT of 60's Muscle Cars including 65 Corvette 396 with 425 Rated HP!! Was only put in 1/2 of 1965 year. My Dad bought it for my older Brother who graduated from the US Air Force Academy in 1970!!
They are all cool but there is just something special about the Hemi. In my misbegotten cowboy youth at age 16 I had the chance to buy a Hemi GTX. I passed on it. One of my life's regrets but I don't know if I would have survived my teenage years if I owned that beast.
I saw one near myrtle beach SC beautiful car! I got bitten by the muscle car bug last year I bought a 442 tribute car with a 455 done to mondello specs. Then I bought a 87 Buick grandnational with 72k original miles. I'm telling you there is nothing like driving classic cars. Makes you turn down the music to appreciate the cars rumble.
The "rated" RPM (5600) they're using will make the pistons trade holes on the Chebby engines and the stock Hemi and 440 Six-Pack motors won't make anymore HP at over 5200 RPM. I've owned and raced MOPARs and some Chevies. I know what works on the street and at the strip. They ain't the same thing, especially with carburettors. Anything sold after 1969 is a lowered compression engine, that means lower HP. The Buick 455, in 1968 form, and premium leaded gasoline is a real 425 HP. The Air Force used them to start the SR-71 engines. It MIGHT be the most HP stock engine GM ever built. I notice the 440 Six-Pack is supposed to gain 40 HP at 900 RPM higher. Won't happen stock. That engine and 1200CFM worth of carbs on a stock intake manifold, cam and heads won't pull 5600 RPM with stock exhaust headers and mufflers. Engine are built to a "recipe", like baking a cake. You can't bake it in a hotter oven and get the same results.
Those smog era engines with lower compression did not come about until 1971. 1969 was probably one of the years of absolute peak muscle car performance. Remember the oil crisis would not start until 1973.
Ricky Earp, the engine used to start the SR-71 wasn't a 455, as the 455 wasn't produced until 1970, the only year it had high (10:1) compression. 1971-1976 engines were all lower compression (8.5:1 or so) engines, with the difference in HP between '71 and the '72-'76 engines being primarily due to ratings changing from SAE gross to SAE net. The SR-71 used Buick's famous 425 Nailhead, rated at 465lb-ft of torque.
@Tee pom in factory form the 69 and 70 400 Pontiac made more power then the 73 super duty. The thing was the 73 and 74 super duty had forged rods and larger heads. So the potential was there and you didnt have throwing a rod through the block as an option since most pontiacs had powdered metal rods which would break at about 5700 rpm.
My dad and a few others he knew used to drag race mopars back in the 60's & 70's. The 340 6-pack was another one underrated. Only way a well tuned Hemi made less than 500 horses is if it was upside down, under water, with one plug wire off. Simple cam swap, it'd easily rev to 84-8,600. The head & intake design, they loved the rpm's.
Not true just like today when u change your headers because of holes the job is quicker and sounds a whole lot tougher when u do not put the old ass exhaust back on.
I had one of those 455 cubic inch Buicks. Yes, they had a lot of power. Especially merging onto interstates. That extra power was good for hauling boats too.
Yes. The most beautiful design ever. Line up a 70 hemi cuda ' 70 chevelle LS6' 70 440 charger ' 69 Z28 and a 69 L88 next to a 69 BOSS 429 and I'm driving off with the boss. None of the other designs come close to the one and only BOSS.
@@allenconner5143 hell yeah my uncle had a 1970 SS l78 I believe 396 375hp muncie 4spd was a odd burnt orange with black stripes was scary fast but I was 13 and it's been years ago
@@Mastermindyoung14 mastermind?? Did you read? I said we, as we hot rodders, not the general unknowing public. They were not running around at the dragstrip. And there were so many fairly quick cars easily available most didn't care about having the most claimed HP.
That 71 Shaker is by far the hottest looking muscle car ever produced, hands down and is coming from somebody that owned a 68 charger for my first car 💜
@@randallparker8116 The L78 was rated at 425 in the Corvette, 375 in the Chevelle, and 325 in the EL Camino, but it was the same engine regardless of what it was put in. The L79 was rated at 350 hp in the Corvette, Chevelle, Nova, etc... but only rated at 325 in the El Camino. It's my belief that 425 hp was truly what the L78 put out, and 350 hp was truly what the L79 put out.
It's good to see people finally acknowledge the fact these cars were under rated, but the Hemi is still putting out more power than the video claims. According to a Muscle Machines article most stock automatic Hemi cars shifted at 7000 RPM with it matted. Also, several reputable sources have claimed over 600 HP from rebuilt and dyno'd Hemis and its no coincidence that putting the Hemi's compression, displacement and RPM numbers into a rough horsepower calculator gets 630 HP
Many of the 'accurate' HP numbers in this video are wrong... the L88 427" Chevy was 560 HP and it was the MOST underrated at '430 HP'... The 375 HP Magnum 440 really was about 375 HP... However, the 6 pack 440's were underrated...
I read a few years ago they "Peterson publishing or Argus" took a stock street HEMI in the 90s and put it on a dyno and with a plug wire pulled it made 432 and with all plugs made about 480.
@Patrick Petrie Do you even know what the stock carbs were? The stock carbs were 770 CFM Holley's. Holley's are the most tunable and most race ready carbs on the market. You have added literally nothing to this debate but rumors and you didn't even tell us what RPM the "Canadian Guy" ran the engine to when he got 450 HP. A camshaft IS part of the valvetrain and you also misspelled impossible.
@GlassTopRX7 Stop spreading lies about the Hemi, I already told you about it in two other comments sections but you just keep ignoring me and reposting the same stupid rumors. You are absolutely wrong about the new Hemi being more powerful than the old one. The 426 Hemi was a drastically under rated engine, all tests for the engine show it was run to about 4300 RPM when it was rated at 425 gross HP. That is considerably lower than the stock valve trains peak RPM. Most stock Torqueflite automatic Hemi cars shift at 6500 or 7000 RPM depending on how aggressively the kickdown linkage was tuned. I know a factory 7000+ RPM big block V8 is kind of a hard pill to swallow but that's why it was only 426 cubic inches and made so much more power than the 440. The smaller bore was to ensure reliability at high RPM. When run to peak RPM a well tuned hemi will make well over 500 horse power and many reputable sources have reported over 600 from all stock parts. Coincidentally if you punch the Hemi's compression, RPM and displacement numbers into my favorite rough horsepower calculator it comes out at 630 HP. The reason you see so many Hemi cars running like turds at the strip is because old school big blocks are notoriously low RPM engines and people have no idea the Hemi is capable of that kind of rpm. Most folks set the KD linkage to shift at 4500 for fear of blowing a 20,000 dollar rare vintage engine and the guys with 4 speeds shift low too because they don't know any better. The hemi is legendary for a reason, only few know why and now you do too. Here is a screenshot of the HP calculator. Wanna argue with the math now? imgur.com/a/IfYle
A 1970 - 1980 Chevy SBC 400" with modern heads can easily make 500 HP by 5,000 RPMs... lots more if revved higher... czcams.com/video/qfUBcSmV5-k/video.html
Nice to see my 70 Buick GSX stage 1. But you rated it at 420hp but even that was underated a bit. And you failed to mention out of all the factory muscle cars the GSX also had the highest torque which was 510 lbs of pure muscle!
That engine had 455 hp. Stock. Period. You have to understand that most of these videos are made by younger people than us, guys who actually owned these things new. I went to a car show in Glastonbury, CT. about 20 years ago. They were giving lots of expensive prizes out. The organizer, with his microphone would ask a car or engine question spanning decades to the crowd. I answered every question right, time after time, and even though I was in the second row and clearly heard, I didn't get a damn thing. A few people near me said "WTF is going on, they're ignoring you, you keep answering right first!' Turns out the organizer of the event had already picked out hiis friends to get the goodies. That was the last time I went to that yearly show. Some people act "big" but dont play fair. Maybe they were jealous somebody knew more about automotive history than they did. Sad.
@@dinos0429 If not for the insurance-smog police-oil embargo trifecta that ended the muscle car era, Pontiac was going to put those tunnel port heads on the 455 and make one ring to rule them all!
Ive owned and dyno tested BONE STOCK Pontiac RA II and IV 400 motors. Both produced 425-435HP at the crank. It would seem you guys missed a few all time great ones... For more info on these little known but brutally fast machines, I suggest watching some Pure Stock Drags and see how these (relatively lightweight) 68 1/2 RAII Firebirds fared against the so-called "top dog" muscle cars from the 60s.
I'm a retired multi degreed Engineer who worked at America's largest defense contractor for 31 years, but in my youth I worked at a well known machine shop/speed shop in Orlando Fl. in the early 70's...I personally saw a 429 Boss engine from a '70 Boss Mustang in 100% stock trim (including exhaust manifolds and stock air cleaner and smog) pull 377 H.P. on a dyno...the same exact engine with velocity stack air intake (no filter), Mallory electronic ignition distributor, no smog, large tube headers and the biggest holley I had ever seen (I believe it may have been a nascar 1350 CFM) pull 540 H.P. The Boss 429 as delivered was just a very plugged up giant air pump.
I owned a '65 Vette roadster with the 396/425 HP L78 Engine. I bought her in '77 and rebuilt the engine myself (just bearings and a hone job w/rings and did a valve job). The engine was 100% stock except for hooker headers and rejetted carb and she pulled 455 BHP on an engine dyno. The gentleman who did the dyno pull and carb jetting/timing adjustment said that was the first L78 he had seen run but that stock L88's (that were also rated at 425 H.P.) would pull 520 BHP with open headers.
1970 Corvette with the ls5 454 was rated at 390 hp but the same engine in the 70 Chevelle SS 454 was only rated at 360 hp. It was the same exact engine. You go figure.
Seems like a Lot of Muscle Cars of that Era got left out. Since I'm a Ford Guy i think the Boss 302 and Boss 351 Should of been included No way were the Factory Ratings Close at 290 and 330 H.P. Correct. More like 390 H.P. For the Boss 302 And About 430 H.P. For the Boss 351. Believe it or Not But the 1971 Boss 351 Was actually one of the Fastest Fords Ever Made. There was a Magazine That Tested the Fastest Muscle Cars that had a Backseat i Believe. And if i remember correctly the 71 Boss 351 Ran the Quickest 1/4 Mile of all the Fords. It was the Same Magazine that Called the Buick GS Stage 1 The Hemi Killer. In which i AGREE 100% I'm a Die Hard Ford Guy, but if i had a Favor GM it would Definitely be the 70-72 Buicks with that Torque Monster 455 They were so Underrated. The Body lines and accents and Trim were IMO Better than the Chevelle, GTO, or 442. But i gotta admit i Always Liked the 69-72 Novas Also. If i had a 69-72 Nova First Thing on my List is a Built 429-460 FORD Engine Swap. If i was Rich Enough to Buy a 70 GS 455 Stage 1 i would Definitely Leave that Monster Buick Engine in it, And Go out Looking for 426 Hemi,s And Blow there Doors Clean Off. I know I'm gonna Piss Off the Mopar Guys, But that Magazine Article Doesn't Lie. Years Back i drove in a 70 GS Stage 1 So i know how Brutally it Pinned me to the Seat. Never was in a Hemi, But seen Many Run on the Street. I was Never Impressed. Now the Race Hemi was a Different Story.
Not sure how much compression rolled off the assembly line in the 302 Boss. My 65-70 Motors Manual states 10.5:1 compression for the 69 High Perf. 302 and 70 302 Boss, then states the 71 302 Boss had 9.4:1 compression. At the same time the manual doesn't even list a 351Boss, though it lists a 330 Hp 351 for 71 with 11.7:1 compression. According to the manual the 429 Boss only had 10.5:1 compression, so in actuality 375 Hp for that compression actually might have been accurate. Especially if you add on alternator, power steering and air condition pump. The really high HP numbers and tire smoking cars we were used to seeing back from the 60's and 70's were actually ones that had their cams changed and compression raised. Big thing was, in a Mustang, you raise the compression ratio up to 12:1 and those engines would come alive, but on the street in stop and go traffic, you'd burn them down... While the Motors Manual did post inaccurate Horsepower specs, which wasn't important, I really doubt they fudged on the compression ratio's. Motors Manual was the Bible of Mechanics nationwide in the 60's and 70's, their specs were dead on for clearances and tolerances.
Bad Ass 6.0 Powerstroke - I am also Ford guy but I think your HP estimates are too high. In 1973 I purchased a 1970 Mach 1 with the 351W. I modded the car like everyone else and used to race it occasionally. My best friend had a 1969 Mach 1 with the 428CJ. I also had buddies with 1970 Boss 302’s and a couple 1969 Z28 Camaro’s. From my experience both the Boss 302 and the Chev DZ302 were underrated. In stock form with the factory rev limiter intact the Boss 302 probably made around 320. Removing the rev limiter probably got you another 10-15 HP. Put a cam (factory cam was tiny) and headers and you were north of 400 HP. I Never knew anyone with a Boss 351 but based on the ET’s they ran stock (high 13’s) they probably made around 400 HP stock. A good running 428CJ 4 speed and a Boss 351 was a close matchup. You have to remember though that the 351 small block was considerably lighter than the 428 FE motor.
Dan Myers. Enjoyed your comment to bad ass 6.0 powerstroke.You Sir are right on the mark! That era sure was the times! My only regret was learning how to build power later in life. I could have really had a ball with stock, cheap 460's or 351c or 351w or??? back in the 70's when I had the Gears, but no Head of knowledge. If only I know then What I know now. I always thought back in the 70's you had to have a factory muscle car to go fast. But with the cost of insurance forget it. Someone of the day was talking about a sleeper. I asked what is a sleeper? Well I will end by saying I found my thrill! I had fun back then. I didn't have a muscle car, but I had a sleeper! (More than one).
Back in the 60’s and 70’s when these cars were new off the showroom floor you could go to your local gas station and get upwards of 120 octane right out of the pump. Sunoco had the best gas, and back then 100octane was around .50cents a gallon. So the high compression motors loved it.
Yes jasonneal!! My Dad had a Sunoco gas station in the 60's & 70's. 190 was economy regular, 200 was regular & then it went 210, 220, 230, 240, 250 & 260 was premium!! Custom blended was on the gas pumps! Meaning there was a 190 tank in the ground along with a 260 tank. And if you ordered 240, you received a blend from both tanks! ALOT of racers in Saturday would stop in in their way to Norwalk Raceway in Norwalk, Ohio. Now called Summit Motorsports Park to get the 260! Ah the good 'ole days!!
My uncle bought a Boss 429 mustang in the middle of the oil crisis for $400. He drag raced the heck out of it. Long gone now. Had kids, car got sold. He now has a 65 fastback with a built 289 auto.
When the 396 375 hp '65 Corvette came out with this engine, Nascar re-rated the engine @ 425 hp. No way it had "only" 400 hp. Still, a wicked great video. Thanks!
To internet trolls, the 302 Z cars seem mild with a rating of only 290 hp. But these little mouse motors could put many of the big blocks on the trailer. That's why they called em mouse motors. The hemi was called the elephant. Get it?
As a fan of both eras I get irritated when I hear the original price of old muscle cars and then what it equates to today. Usually in today’s dollars it’s about $25k. But the newer cars made today are like you said $45-$50k. It’s ridiculous really. The cost of everything is through the roof and that’s with inflation being considered
@@Hull9 Newer cars also come with a lot more options standard like AC, power windows, etc that would be extra cost options on 60's cars and then there is all the extra technology, computers, airbags, etc that would also increase the price.
Note that in the late 60s they used 'gross hp', the industry switched to 'net hp' in 1972. Something to consider when mentioning realistic power. Nevertheless, they built some awesome engines back then.
Hate those tyres and oversize 17-20" rims, traction bars, free-flow air filters, scoops, etc, etc , what was after installed for those cars ..... Original is better .....
Your wrong about the buick GSX 455 they didn't make the engine at all in the 60s at least not the same one, its true buick was fastest production car in 1970 but the engine was changed and had much less horsepower in 1971.
It amazes me just how ludacris the Muscle Era really was. Most of these were WAY underrated in Stock form. Restrictions out the wazoo. What's the first thing most people did back then? Carbs and exhaust. Maybe a Cam/Lifter upgrade a little later but just letting them breath more than likely put the real power (to the tires) at or better than factory. Which means their Net Ratings were probably over 500 hp. On skinny Bias-Ply tires with drum brakes. Honestly, those Bias-Ply's probably saved more than they get credit for. All things being equal, everyone says Modern Family Cars perform better than our beloved Muscle. Ok, let's stick your Camry on those same Bias-Ply's and see. The torque these monsters were making, even bone stock, would cause most people to need a shorts change after one stoplight blast on modern rubber.
They were definitely badass but most of these cars were in the 400-500hp range, which is your average muscle car today. We are in golden age muscle car era pt2. Where cars are now coming out with 600-800hp stock from the factory. As cool as those old cars were, they would be left in the dust by a ZL1, GT500, Vette Z06, Viper, Hellcat, etc.
@@gbales84 I agree. There is no comparison. Technology has come a long way in 50 years. Hell, in the last 20 years. It's to easy to make insane power in your Daily now a days. ESPECIALLY with the LS. As crazy as the 5.0 is, there's just something about the simplicity of a Push Rod Engine. Bit of trivia for ya. Somebody had a Flatplane Crank for the SBC way back in the 1950s.
I really hate it when you show a car, talk about it then show a different car. Mainly with modification that are obvious: tube headers, over sized tires and those non stock cams.
The vacuum advance wouldn't do anything at idle if its hooked up to ported vacuum like most cars came from the factory. They just have the idle set real low
It's too bad you couldn't have been around back then. We smoked grass chase some young ass and went fast LOL the 70s were awesome and I miss them so much. Best time to have ever been alive
Few if any of these were stock mufflers or exhaust systems. Most of the cars even most of these in stock form were pretty quiet idling. Otherwise you may be noticing the HP cams with more duration and overlap causing the popping sounds. Also these cars do not have things like X crossover pipes or mufflers that give them that godawful euro sound. The mufflers used are what we call throaty and have a deeper tone.
1. Many manufacturers underrated their muscle car engines in the late '60s. They were torn between one upmanship of their competitors by having highest horsepower ratings and being able to sell them to anyone since the insurance companies were killing people who tried to insure the high horsepower cars. 2. The Mustang Boss 429 is NOT a muscle car. It is a Pony Car. Some might even call it a sports car, although that isn't really correct. Muscle cars were intermediates with large engines. 3. No L88 raced with stock exhaust. Headers were known to unlock about 100 hp on these big blocks, which fits with the understood 560 hp they were known to make.
Pontiac SD 421, 1961-65 made 492hp and 500tq. Way before any of these! Pontiac RamAir ll & lV made 430-460hp and well over 500tq as well. Pontiac SD 455 made closer to 400hp & well over 500tq. Chevy 427 with 3duces makes 505hp and 535tq. I have worked on and driven many of these.
Funny thing is they don’t want to give Pontiac the credit they are due. The 1964 Lemans with GTO option is documented as the first Muscle car. Before that Pontiac was dominating in NASCAR and 1/4mile with its Super Duty 389,s and Super Duty 421,s many years before any of these cars in this video. To be honest the 1963 Super Duty Tempest and Lemans cars, and there were 12 made, were the first factory built Muscle cars. Years before Mopar, Ford and Chevy. My uncle has always told me Pontiac was GM,s real and only Performance division. Until the racing ban for sure. They had to get creative after, and they did in a big sneeky way thankfully.
These cars were sold in a detuned form for a couple of reasons. Mainly it was a futile attempt to keep Bobby Kennedy and the insurance companies appeased. The other is that although lots of boys think they want a race engine in their car. If they get one they learn that racing engines are terrible daily drivers. That 428 Ford was a much better street engine than the 427 or the Boss 429. A 440 Mopar with a single 4 barrel wad a lot easier to live with than a 426 Hemi. Similarly, over at GM the 350 advertised HP 327 with a carburetor and hydraulic lifters was a lot more user friendly than the 375 advertised HP 327 with FI and solid lifters.
@ 1:00 watch that car dance all over the place. Modern cars have better everything. Better build quality, fuel mileage, longer lasting, better at helping people walk away from a crash. Better in every way. And modern engines make more horsepower per cubic inch than those dinosaurs. Those old Detroit era cars look great in posters....and that's about it.
Yeah we have some awesome cars today but we don't even have half the selection there was back then. I wish a lot of these cars still existed....GTX, Duster, Chevelle, Cuda, Fairlane 500..
gbales84 no we have computers with wheels wrapped in plastic that will be unusable in 20 years or less even if just parked outside and rarely drivin not cars. And they are expensive too. Makes me actually appreciate an Omni. Lol
When I was a kid my aunt was married to the cousin of the California Flash, Super Stock.racer use to go to.their shop and watch,my x use to date Hairy Canery jr. Before me,they lived down the street Super Stock Racer,we use to go to Fremont Raceway in the day
For all of the "My car is better because I said so" people here, a good general rule of thumb for FACTORY muscle cars horsepower is most of them made about 1 hp per cubic inch. Some made a bit more, some a bit less, but most were in that range. You can also get a good idea if the hp rating was fudged by looking at the torque. Several muscle car engines were rated around 500 ft lbs. of torque, but rated in the mid 300s for hp, which is actually accurate, since heads and cams built for high torque generally make less hp, and heads and cams built for hp generally make less torque. Both numbers are important to consider when making comparisons between cars.
An older brother of mine purchases a 1970 'Cuda with a 440 supercommando engine. Driven from the show room to the dunk, it produced on the dunk 456 horses right out of the showroom!!
This is why the Dynojet is needed. Controlled repeatable pulls shows the engines are over rated, not under. Like the 454 LS6 mentioned in the comments. The trap speed with better tires shows 450 hp is a wild exaggeration.
i always wondered why they (high HP cars) always sound like they are going to die....never understood that..........i'm sure it has something to do with the way the gas goes into the carb or something....but what the hell do i know....lol
Whistle Teets Thank you my girlfriend freaked out screaming what’s wrong with your car it sounds like it’s going to blow up.And my friend said do you know how many people would kill to have their car sound like this.A few minutes later she understood what the crazy noise was about.
What it is infact is misfiring. At lower rpm's the intake valve is open longer than it needs to be so some of the unburned gas backs up into the intake causing other cylinders to misfire somewhat. The idea is to allow for more air/fuel into the engine at higher rpms to make more power. It is the tradeoff for more HP. There is tuning and other things than can be done to help the idling along with raising the idle speed so it doesn't die. But most people want to keep the idle down so it does have plenty of that misfiring lope sound. It is music to me but I am embarrassed by the guys who run too low of an idle and about let it die. Dopey.
@@fredc8346 it's not a misfire it is really the exhaust duration it longer in degrees compared to the intake side, causing the exhaust to still be open and closing as the intake is opening to try and completely clear the combustion chamber of spent air/fuel, cause with the higher lift camshaft there will be longer duration and more overlapping of the valve being open causing the choppy or sucking wind sound. What you were describing would be a backfire and if it backfires through the intake there is something really wrong which is usually cause by your timing being off or detonation. But a "normal" backfire is when unburned air/fuel goes through the exhaust and burns in there also bad but livable
I was thinking that the Ford 427 with 2-4 barrel carbs is one of the most underrated engines of all time. Factory h.p. 425. ....in actuality is was close to 500. My dad owned a marauder with that 427 and could not be beat by anything back in the late 60's
@@matthewmanley6656 Very nice, Loved the big Mercs. Yes I also seen in and old Drag Race Mag that the R-Code when tuned right was capable of 480-500 HP, but didn't wan't a Mopar or Chevy fight breaking out !! Lol I Love all the Classic American Muscle, Big Car show fan for 30+ years : )
Never heard so many “stock” engines with this much overlap and open headers....
rockingbfarms 10 seconds in and I’m thinking same thing serious cam and ceramic coated headers stock.
No SHIT!!! STOCK my ASS!!!!
(wait a minute..."stock my ass' doesn't sound quite right...aw, hell..you know what I mean)
Amen
I was around back then and these cars sounded great but they didn't sound like that.
Those are not stock cams
Whoever made this list picked some good cars, but missed listing a big one in the 1970 Chevy Chevelle with the LS6 454.
It would have stole the show.
Hell yea ??????????
Fact: ls6 is the only muscle car engine that was over rated. Hot rod magazine dynod all these @ factory specs. The 426 hemi made the most at 490
The stage 1 Buick was faster than the ls6
Norrin Radd thanks to more torque.
Completely left out 1970 Oldsmobile 442, 455 W30.
Rated @ 370 hp. Actual hp was closer to 425 at higher rpm.
Just sayin..
Car was a beast!!
About 1970-73 we used to hang-out in the school parking lot before the bell just to listen to our cars idle. The faculty knew we were present. LOL
If you are going to have a video about TRUE horsepower, don't have non-stock cars featured.
clemsonrugger yup, agree
Yeah agreed. Most of them came from the factory with way less power than these modified examples have.
I agree these "examples" were NOT "Showroom STOCK" ...!!!
BUT the HP figures they are giving ARE based on the Factory Engines, and NOT by testing these cars!
It was probably much easier to find cars available for the video that were 'stock' appearance and some dramatic -- and somewhat nonsensical -- burnouts. But I grew up thru this era and had friends with these cars, and even got to drive many of them myself. I go into some detail in an above comment, so no point repeating here. But the "Horsepower Race" was almost immediately met with HUGE Insurance premiums and public outcry about safety and 'street racers' -- sound familiar..?? So, by under-rating the cars, by using 'true' numbers from lower rpms they simply changed the ads from "Peak HP" to "Rated at XXXHP @ Y,YYY RPM" ...
And YES, hard-rubber-compound Bias-Ply 5 1/2" to 7" wide tires can be FRIED by almost ANY car with 200 HP or so...
You're not going to find very many owners of original or restored cars who will agree to any full throttle operation. As I understand it, a huge number of restored cars are never fired after completion!
I concur and being i've seen several more reliable videos, (than one with a Boss 429 in a non Boss 429 or any other Ford car in those years color with 18" wheels on it, ) that had Hemi on the dyno for everyone to see not just typed on a screen, and both were in the 570 range not and if you meant 570 than NO PASS for not proofing your shit and posting with typos, but judging from the Resto-Mods it wasn't a misprint in your head anyway
5:46 Muscle cars never gonna die
In 1970 there was a dealer option for the Buick GS. It was called the Stage 2. At the time Motor Trend said it was the fastest stock car they had ever tested. It did the 1/4 mi in the 10's.
@markrapacki5855 , It was in Motor Trend magazine. Get yourself educated.
That first Buick sounds nasty!
Damn, I guess they all sound nasty and I love Nasty!
I got to speak to the bloke who designed the stage 1 motor and he reckon the reason they quoted 360 was to get it into a particular race class and said the actual hp was 376. He reckons the torque they produced was what made them so quick. The old hp sells cars, torque wins races.
The "Bloke" you spoke to was full of it....They made over 400hp.
@@kurtcameron723 the bloke I spoke to was Denny manner who was head of engine design from 59 to 96. Well known in the Buick club and I got to hear him speak in a crowded room of about 300 buick owners at the 2006 buick nationals of his experiences as head of engine design while at buick.
I had a 1970 Vette convertible with an LT1 engine that produced 370 hp and a Muncie close ratio 4sp. Great engine, tons of fun but very cantankerous. Many a days I was replacing jets in the Holley double pump due to a weather change! The newer engines are far superior to even the big blocks of old. Much more horsepower per cube, far better economy and much more livable in day to day driving. It took 30+ years but the big blocks of the 70's are no longer the big dog on the street as its now easy to get 600+ hp out of the factory!
The 421 cu.in Pontiac GTO, with 3 deuces and solid cam lifters was rated at 376 HP. It had to be more than that.
Check out the old pics of the Swiss Cheese Catalinas with 421's. I think the fenders read 410 HP, in big bold letters.
In searching my googles on those early 60's swiss cheese lightweight temptest lemans Pontiac's featuring that 421, tuned up with dual quads and headers it was a secret weapon, in bigger Bonneville's, Grand Prix's Catalina 2+2, researching into these 421's a while back, there were more then a few articles claiming that the 421 was vastly underated at at 405 but really had upwards of 480 horse power...8)
The pontiac V8 design in most configurations with stock performance heads and stock performance cam was good for about 1 hp per cubic inch. The 421 was fairly oversquare, with a bore considerably larger than it's stroke, which makes for better high rpm performance, but stock pontiac heads didn't flow very well at ultra high rpm, so there was some trade-off. Some pontiac head designs from the late 60s and early 70s flowed better, but the 421 was discontinued before they were made. So, in my opinion, 376 is probably fair, maybe slightly under rated, with the true gross output likely being around 390 to 400.
Absolutely. The old tri-power Poncho's were arguably the best muscle motors ever made and likely the most underrated, save for the 340 Mopar.
That Pontiac motor was really Stout in fact Big Chief from Street Outlaws actually made it into the pro mods top 16 US Nationals with the stock 421 motor, the only stock block motor there and it didnt win anything but still that's pretty impressive.
Fantastic Memories and even more awesome HP Figures then I knew! Been around a LOT of 60's Muscle Cars including 65 Corvette 396 with 425 Rated HP!! Was only put in 1/2 of 1965 year. My Dad bought it for my older Brother who graduated from the US Air Force Academy in 1970!!
They are all cool but there is just something special about the Hemi. In my misbegotten cowboy youth at age 16 I had the chance to buy a Hemi GTX. I passed on it. One of my life's regrets but I don't know if I would have survived my teenage years if I owned that beast.
I saw one near myrtle beach SC beautiful car! I got bitten by the muscle car bug last year I bought a 442 tribute car with a 455 done to mondello specs. Then I bought a 87 Buick grandnational with 72k original miles. I'm telling you there is nothing like driving classic cars. Makes you turn down the music to appreciate the cars rumble.
The one that got away 😷
I know what you mean. I had a chance to buy a '70 Torino 429 Super Cobra Jet. One of those stupid decisions for which I am good at. A red one no less.
Burnouts with no line locks used are the best.
They're actually dumb.
In absence of Dyno equipment on unmolested cars - this is utter bullshit
The "rated" RPM (5600) they're using will make the pistons trade holes on the Chebby engines and the stock Hemi and 440 Six-Pack motors won't make anymore HP at over 5200 RPM. I've owned and raced MOPARs and some Chevies. I know what works on the street and at the strip. They ain't the same thing, especially with carburettors. Anything sold after 1969 is a lowered compression engine, that means lower HP. The Buick 455, in 1968 form, and premium leaded gasoline is a real 425 HP. The Air Force used them to start the SR-71 engines. It MIGHT be the most HP stock engine GM ever built. I notice the 440 Six-Pack is supposed to gain 40 HP at 900 RPM higher. Won't happen stock. That engine and 1200CFM worth of carbs on a stock intake manifold, cam and heads won't pull 5600 RPM with stock exhaust headers and mufflers. Engine are built to a "recipe", like baking a cake. You can't bake it in a hotter oven and get the same results.
Those smog era engines with lower compression did not come about until 1971. 1969 was probably one of the years of absolute peak muscle car performance. Remember the oil crisis would not start until 1973.
Ricky Earp, the engine used to start the SR-71 wasn't a 455, as the 455 wasn't produced until 1970, the only year it had high (10:1) compression. 1971-1976 engines were all lower compression (8.5:1 or so) engines, with the difference in HP between '71 and the '72-'76 engines being primarily due to ratings changing from SAE gross to SAE net. The SR-71 used Buick's famous 425 Nailhead, rated at 465lb-ft of torque.
@@KLAWNINETY 70 was peak HP
@Tee pom in factory form the 69 and 70 400 Pontiac made more power then the 73 super duty. The thing was the 73 and 74 super duty had forged rods and larger heads. So the potential was there and you didnt have throwing a rod through the block as an option since most pontiacs had powdered metal rods which would break at about 5700 rpm.
He's just showing the cars he's talking about....Not that the car shown IS the production model...come on people!!!
I know! He literal lot showed MULTIPLE different cars of the same model with different drivers. I'm surprised this didn't click with more folks.
Imagine if they came from the factory with those cams!
My dad and a few others he knew used to drag race mopars back in the 60's & 70's. The 340 6-pack was another one underrated. Only way a well tuned Hemi made less than 500 horses is if it was upside down, under water, with one plug wire off. Simple cam swap, it'd easily rev to 84-8,600. The head & intake design, they loved the rpm's.
Makes noise, goes fast, oh yeah.
hell of a burn-out from that GS!
Good old days !
Almost every car in this video was running a bigger camshaft then came in them
Source?
Not true just like today when u change your headers because of holes the job is quicker and sounds a whole lot tougher when u do not put the old ass exhaust back on.
@Ghost if u have ears u can easily hear the difference in the sound of the cam with no exhaust
@@johnmaks4371 You could hear those big cams no matter what exhaust they had.
I had one of those 455 cubic inch Buicks. Yes, they had a lot of power. Especially merging onto interstates. That extra power was good for hauling boats too.
Hemi ‘Cuda all the way
Boss 429👍🏻
Yes. The most beautiful design ever. Line up a 70 hemi cuda ' 70 chevelle LS6' 70 440 charger ' 69 Z28 and a 69 L88 next to a 69 BOSS 429 and I'm driving off with the boss. None of the other designs come close to the one and only BOSS.
how about 1969 z/28 dz302
How about the 70 Chevelle SS 454 SS Ls6 being rated at 450 hp when in actuality it's around 500..
Exactly what I was thinking ls6 was factory rated at 450 hp and over 500ft lb of torque I guess they didn't want to make the rest look bad lol
@@matthewwilson5388 lol for real...that car is a monster!
@@allenconner5143 hell yeah my uncle had a 1970 SS l78 I believe 396 375hp muncie 4spd was a odd burnt orange with black stripes was scary fast but I was 13 and it's been years ago
@@hendricksonrunner5015 in china...
I’m not gonna look at it ...because they forgot the Chevelle nuff said
That gsx sounds nasty
I guess this for todays people, but back then we never paid much attention to any numbers other than the ET's.
Yup, that's why they advertised numbers. Because no one paid attention....
@@Mastermindyoung14 mastermind?? Did you read? I said we, as we hot rodders, not the general unknowing public. They were not running around at the dragstrip. And there were so many fairly quick cars easily available most didn't care about having the most claimed HP.
All those cars have soul and are SuperBad!
It wasn't the OEM underrating of these motors that made them monsters. It was modifying and racing them that made these cars legends.
Under-rated?
LOL
www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2013/08/13/horsepower
www.flickr.com/photos/141864703@N03/40160218992/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/
That 71 Shaker is by far the hottest looking muscle car ever produced, hands down and is coming from somebody that owned a 68 charger for my first car 💜
You forgot the L79!. 1965 it was king rated at 425hp and im sure it was much more.
Revved to 7200 in a instant!.
L78 was the 65 396. L79 was a 350hp 327
@@randallparker8116 The L78 was rated at 425 in the Corvette, 375 in the Chevelle, and 325 in the EL Camino, but it was the same engine regardless of what it was put in.
The L79 was rated at 350 hp in the Corvette, Chevelle, Nova, etc... but only rated at 325 in the El Camino.
It's my belief that 425 hp was truly what the L78 put out, and 350 hp was truly what the L79 put out.
Where was an Olds 442 ? But at least back then it didn t cost you 100 k + to get 400 hp .
That Boss 429 burnout was one of best i ever seen/watched. That L88 silver color looked fantastic 👏
It's good to see people finally acknowledge the fact these cars were under rated, but the Hemi is still putting out more power than the video claims. According to a Muscle Machines article most stock automatic Hemi cars shifted at 7000 RPM with it matted. Also, several reputable sources have claimed over 600 HP from rebuilt and dyno'd Hemis and its no coincidence that putting the Hemi's compression, displacement and RPM numbers into a rough horsepower calculator gets 630 HP
Many of the 'accurate' HP numbers in this video are wrong... the L88 427" Chevy was 560 HP and it was the MOST underrated at '430 HP'... The 375 HP Magnum 440 really was about 375 HP... However, the 6 pack 440's were underrated...
I read a few years ago they "Peterson publishing or Argus" took a stock street HEMI in the 90s and put it on a dyno and with a plug wire pulled it made 432 and with all plugs made about 480.
@Patrick Petrie Do you even know what the stock carbs were? The stock carbs were 770 CFM Holley's. Holley's are the most tunable and most race ready carbs on the market. You have added literally nothing to this debate but rumors and you didn't even tell us what RPM the "Canadian Guy" ran the engine to when he got 450 HP. A camshaft IS part of the valvetrain and you also misspelled impossible.
@GlassTopRX7 Stop spreading lies about the Hemi, I already told you about it in two other comments sections but you just keep ignoring me and reposting the same stupid rumors. You are absolutely wrong about the new Hemi being more powerful than the old one. The 426 Hemi was a drastically under rated engine, all tests for the engine show it was run to about 4300 RPM when it was rated at 425 gross HP. That is considerably lower than the stock valve trains peak RPM. Most stock Torqueflite automatic Hemi cars shift at 6500 or 7000 RPM depending on how aggressively the kickdown linkage was tuned. I know a factory 7000+ RPM big block V8 is kind of a hard pill to swallow but that's why it was only 426 cubic inches and made so much more power than the 440. The smaller bore was to ensure reliability at high RPM. When run to peak RPM a well tuned hemi will make well over 500 horse power and many reputable sources have reported over 600 from all stock parts. Coincidentally if you punch the Hemi's compression, RPM and displacement numbers into my favorite rough horsepower calculator it comes out at 630 HP. The reason you see so many Hemi cars running like turds at the strip is because old school big blocks are notoriously low RPM engines and people have no idea the Hemi is capable of that kind of rpm. Most folks set the KD linkage to shift at 4500 for fear of blowing a 20,000 dollar rare vintage engine and the guys with 4 speeds shift low too because they don't know any better. The hemi is legendary for a reason, only few know why and now you do too.
Here is a screenshot of the HP calculator. Wanna argue with the math now? imgur.com/a/IfYle
A 1970 - 1980 Chevy SBC 400" with modern heads can easily make 500 HP by 5,000 RPMs... lots more if revved higher...
czcams.com/video/qfUBcSmV5-k/video.html
Nice to see my 70 Buick GSX stage 1. But you rated it at 420hp but even that was underated a bit. And you failed to mention out of all the factory muscle cars the GSX also had the highest torque which was 510 lbs of pure muscle!
That engine had 455 hp. Stock. Period. You have to understand that most of these videos are made by younger people than us, guys who actually owned these things new. I went to a car show in Glastonbury, CT. about 20 years ago. They were giving lots of expensive prizes out. The organizer, with his microphone would ask a car or engine question spanning decades to the crowd. I answered every question right, time after time, and even though I was in the second row and clearly heard, I didn't get a damn thing. A few people near me said "WTF is going on, they're ignoring you, you keep answering right first!' Turns out the organizer of the event had already picked out hiis friends to get the goodies. That was the last time I went to that yearly show. Some people act "big" but dont play fair. Maybe they were jealous somebody knew more about automotive history than they did. Sad.
Pontiac 421 Super Duty.
Rated 405 HP
Dyno 480 HP
Ram Air 5 too. Pontiac wasn't a slouch when it came to designing race motors.
@@dinos0429
If not for the insurance-smog police-oil embargo trifecta that ended the muscle car era, Pontiac was going to put those tunnel port heads on the 455 and make one ring to rule them all!
Dual 4 barrels, tunnel port heads, 10:1 compression ratio, 455 cubic inches... It would've been a hemi killer.
all Awesome engines and cars...the sound is excellent....
It was so good to see my green Boss 429 in your video!
...and then you woke up 💢
Ralph Edwards Apart from being both two years late and wrong, your comment was great!
@@lazaglider send pics ...
1969 Corvette Stingray coupe..the best looking sports car ever made. Didnt the 1970 ZL1 have 524hp?
Ive owned and dyno tested BONE STOCK Pontiac RA II and IV 400 motors. Both produced 425-435HP at the crank. It would seem you guys missed a few all time great ones... For more info on these little known but brutally fast machines, I suggest watching some Pure Stock Drags and see how these (relatively lightweight) 68 1/2 RAII Firebirds fared against the so-called "top dog" muscle cars from the 60s.
I agree 100%, those Poncho's were fast, and, for some reason, completely overlooked by non Pontiac fans
I'm a retired multi degreed Engineer who worked at America's largest defense contractor for 31 years, but in my youth I worked at a well known machine shop/speed shop in Orlando Fl. in the early 70's...I personally saw a 429 Boss engine from a '70 Boss Mustang in 100% stock trim (including exhaust manifolds and stock air cleaner and smog) pull 377 H.P. on a dyno...the same exact engine with velocity stack air intake (no filter), Mallory electronic ignition distributor, no smog, large tube headers and the biggest holley I had ever seen (I believe it may have been a nascar 1350 CFM) pull 540 H.P. The Boss 429 as delivered was just a very plugged up giant air pump.
One of the coolest car videos I've seen on CZcams so far can I have all these cars please
I'm a FOMOCO guy but I don't care who makes em, all these engines sound so sweet. I love the song that the American V8 sings. Nice
Using modified vehicles to illustrate stock power from half a century ago
I owned a '65 Vette roadster with the 396/425 HP L78 Engine. I bought her in '77 and rebuilt the engine myself (just bearings and a hone job w/rings and did a valve job). The engine was 100% stock except for hooker headers and rejetted carb and she pulled 455 BHP on an engine dyno. The gentleman who did the dyno pull and carb jetting/timing adjustment said that was the first L78 he had seen run but that stock L88's (that were also rated at 425 H.P.) would pull 520 BHP with open headers.
I would hate to be the neighbor to the purple cuda owner lol. Can't imagine waking up Saturday morning to that rumbling haha
The big blocks of that era were truly torque monsters! Lol!
That Hemi Cuda sure is a beauty. The sound of that car when it screams past the camera sounds like it's on a race track.
1970 Corvette with the ls5 454 was rated at 390 hp but the same engine in the 70 Chevelle SS 454 was only rated at 360 hp. It was the same exact engine. You go figure.
Seems like a Lot of Muscle Cars of that Era got left out. Since I'm a Ford Guy i think the Boss 302 and Boss 351 Should of been included No way were the Factory Ratings Close at 290 and 330 H.P. Correct. More like 390 H.P. For the Boss 302 And About 430 H.P. For the Boss 351. Believe it or Not But the 1971 Boss 351 Was actually one of the Fastest Fords Ever Made. There was a Magazine That Tested the Fastest Muscle Cars that had a Backseat i Believe. And if i remember correctly the 71 Boss 351 Ran the Quickest 1/4 Mile of all the Fords. It was the Same Magazine that Called the Buick GS Stage 1 The Hemi Killer.
In which i AGREE 100%
I'm a Die Hard Ford Guy, but if i had a Favor GM it would Definitely be the 70-72 Buicks with that Torque Monster 455 They were so Underrated. The Body lines and accents and Trim were IMO Better than the Chevelle, GTO, or 442.
But i gotta admit i Always Liked the 69-72 Novas Also.
If i had a 69-72 Nova First Thing on my List is a Built 429-460 FORD Engine Swap. If i was Rich Enough to Buy a 70 GS 455 Stage 1 i would Definitely Leave that Monster Buick Engine in it, And Go out Looking for 426 Hemi,s And Blow there Doors Clean Off.
I know I'm gonna Piss Off the Mopar Guys, But that Magazine Article Doesn't Lie. Years Back i drove in a 70 GS Stage 1 So i know how Brutally it Pinned me to the Seat. Never was in a Hemi, But seen Many Run on the Street. I was Never Impressed. Now the Race Hemi was a Different Story.
Not sure how much compression rolled off the assembly line in the 302 Boss. My 65-70 Motors Manual states 10.5:1 compression for the 69 High Perf. 302 and 70 302 Boss, then states the 71 302 Boss had 9.4:1 compression. At the same time the manual doesn't even list a 351Boss, though it lists a 330 Hp 351 for 71 with 11.7:1 compression. According to the manual the 429 Boss only had 10.5:1 compression, so in actuality 375 Hp for that compression actually might have been accurate. Especially if you add on alternator, power steering and air condition pump. The really high HP numbers and tire smoking cars we were used to seeing back from the 60's and 70's were actually ones that had their cams changed and compression raised. Big thing was, in a Mustang, you raise the compression ratio up to 12:1 and those engines would come alive, but on the street in stop and go traffic, you'd burn them down...
While the Motors Manual did post inaccurate Horsepower specs, which wasn't important, I really doubt they fudged on the compression ratio's. Motors Manual was the Bible of Mechanics nationwide in the 60's and 70's, their specs were dead on for clearances and tolerances.
Bad Ass 6.0 Powerstroke - I am also Ford guy but I think your HP estimates are too high. In 1973 I purchased a 1970 Mach 1 with the 351W. I modded the car like everyone else and used to race it occasionally. My best friend had a 1969 Mach 1 with the 428CJ. I also had buddies with 1970 Boss 302’s and a couple 1969 Z28 Camaro’s. From my experience both the Boss 302 and the Chev DZ302 were underrated. In stock form with the factory rev limiter intact the Boss 302 probably made around 320. Removing the rev limiter probably got you another 10-15 HP. Put a cam (factory cam was tiny) and headers and you were north of 400 HP. I Never knew anyone with a Boss 351 but based on the ET’s they ran stock (high 13’s) they probably made around 400 HP stock. A good running 428CJ 4 speed and a Boss 351 was a close matchup. You have to remember though that the 351 small block was considerably lighter than the 428 FE motor.
Dan Myers. Enjoyed your comment to bad ass 6.0 powerstroke.You Sir are right on the mark! That era sure was the times! My only regret was learning how to build power later in life. I could have really had a ball with stock, cheap 460's or 351c or 351w or??? back in the 70's when I had the Gears, but no Head of knowledge. If only I know then What I know now. I always thought back in the 70's you had to have a factory muscle car to go fast. But with the cost of insurance forget it. Someone of the day was talking about a sleeper. I asked what is a sleeper? Well I will end by saying I found my thrill! I had fun back then. I didn't have a muscle car, but I had a sleeper! (More than one).
Back in the 60’s and 70’s when these cars were new off the showroom floor you could go to your local gas station and get upwards of 120 octane right out of the pump. Sunoco had the best gas, and back then 100octane was around .50cents a gallon. So the high compression motors loved it.
Yes jasonneal!! My Dad had a Sunoco gas station in the 60's & 70's. 190 was economy regular, 200 was regular & then it went 210, 220, 230, 240, 250 & 260 was premium!! Custom blended was on the gas pumps! Meaning there was a 190 tank in the ground along with a 260 tank. And if you ordered 240, you received a blend from both tanks! ALOT of racers in Saturday would stop in in their way to Norwalk Raceway in Norwalk, Ohio. Now called Summit Motorsports Park to get the 260! Ah the good 'ole days!!
True story my uncle traded a Chevy Monza for a 69' Mach 1 in the mid 70s. That 428 was a screamer.
My uncle bought a Boss 429 mustang in the middle of the oil crisis for $400. He drag raced the heck out of it. Long gone now. Had kids, car got sold. He now has a 65 fastback with a built 289 auto.
Holy crap. What a steal.
@@CamaroAmx Ouch. That would hurt to part with such a beauty.
Tom Wolak muscle cars were dirt cheap (or anything that guzzled gas) during the gas crisis.
Am I the only one heart broken seeing these American muscle cars with European license plates?
It's a good thing though.
Oz
When the 396 375 hp '65 Corvette came out with this engine, Nascar re-rated the engine @ 425 hp. No way it had "only" 400 hp. Still, a wicked great video. Thanks!
@Mark rapacki You can believe whatever you want. Nobody is stopping you. I stand by my statement about the 396/"375". I'll take Nascar's word.
'73 Pontiac 455SD
1967 Corvette with a 427 please.
Um..6:09??
What about the DZ 69 Camaro 302
What about it? It wasn't in the Top 10 of the most powerful muscle cars. Not even the top 20 really.
To internet trolls, the 302 Z cars seem mild with a rating of only 290 hp. But these little mouse motors could put many of the big blocks on the trailer. That's why they called em mouse motors. The hemi was called the elephant. Get it?
Thes cars were more affordable than today’s cars. Muscle cars like the mustang and camaro today are over 50k.
As a fan of both eras I get irritated when I hear the original price of old muscle cars and then what it equates to today. Usually in today’s dollars it’s about $25k. But the newer cars made today are like you said $45-$50k. It’s ridiculous really. The cost of everything is through the roof and that’s with inflation being considered
@@Hull9 Newer cars also come with a lot more options standard like AC, power windows, etc that would be extra cost options on 60's cars and then there is all the extra technology, computers, airbags, etc that would also increase the price.
Kind of surprised the 454 LS6 didnt make the list. Good video though 👍
Note that in the late 60s they used 'gross hp', the industry switched to 'net hp' in 1972. Something to consider when mentioning realistic power. Nevertheless, they built some awesome engines back then.
MrZdvy what makes them awesome? They’re just big. Really, really big.
Wiggy That's what an actual engine is. Big. Unlike the puny little fisher price motors they put in cars today.
Hate those tyres and oversize 17-20" rims, traction bars, free-flow air filters, scoops, etc, etc , what was after installed for those cars .....
Original is better .....
Agreed. Rubberband tires look like shit on a muscle car.
My '73 Corvette came with 190 HP and 270 Lb's torque. Whoopie!
Nicks garage said a stock 440 made 374 hp on he's dyno
Your wrong about the buick GSX 455 they didn't make the engine at all in the 60s at least not the same one, its true buick was fastest production car in 1970 but the engine was changed and had much less horsepower in 1971.
I was fortunate to have owned a stock 70 GS Stage 1. It was an absolute wolf in sheep's c clothing.
Yep, no 455 til 1970. 400 before that. But that 70 gsx was a beast.
Yup they were called hemi killers....
2:57 it looks like mustard gas or is it just me
Aged tyre dust 😷
'73 Trans Am SD 455 not mentioned?
Exactly!!
weak that's why
@@colclumper lol really? That engine had the most HP and torque of any muscle car that year
73'explains it all,after enfine ratings went to net and not gross doesn't explain the the horsepower loss while getting 6 miles a gallon
It amazes me just how ludacris the Muscle Era really was. Most of these were WAY underrated in Stock form. Restrictions out the wazoo. What's the first thing most people did back then? Carbs and exhaust. Maybe a Cam/Lifter upgrade a little later but just letting them breath more than likely put the real power (to the tires) at or better than factory. Which means their Net Ratings were probably over 500 hp. On skinny Bias-Ply tires with drum brakes. Honestly, those Bias-Ply's probably saved more than they get credit for.
All things being equal, everyone says Modern Family Cars perform better than our beloved Muscle. Ok, let's stick your Camry on those same Bias-Ply's and see. The torque these monsters were making, even bone stock, would cause most people to need a shorts change after one stoplight blast on modern rubber.
They were definitely badass but most of these cars were in the 400-500hp range, which is your average muscle car today. We are in golden age muscle car era pt2. Where cars are now coming out with 600-800hp stock from the factory. As cool as those old cars were, they would be left in the dust by a ZL1, GT500, Vette Z06, Viper, Hellcat, etc.
@@gbales84 I agree. There is no comparison. Technology has come a long way in 50 years. Hell, in the last 20 years. It's to easy to make insane power in your Daily now a days. ESPECIALLY with the LS. As crazy as the 5.0 is, there's just something about the simplicity of a Push Rod Engine.
Bit of trivia for ya. Somebody had a Flatplane Crank for the SBC way back in the 1950s.
I really hate it when you show a car, talk about it then show a different car. Mainly with modification that are obvious: tube headers, over sized tires and those non stock cams.
Stock all these cars suck. It was the potential for real horsepower that got us to buy them.
None of the cars in this video were factory stock but the info provided was pretty accurate
Hook up the vacuum advance hoses back on the distributors and the idles won’t sound so radical!””,””,”
The vacuum advance wouldn't do anything at idle if its hooked up to ported vacuum like most cars came from the factory. They just have the idle set real low
Some nice cars. Wish the cameraman shooting the green big block Camaro panned back a little, so we could see the whole car, rather than the driver.
It's About The Sound.
Gotta Love It !!
I would definitely be in jail every day in those years
Na, the cops didn't care back in the day, everyone had a badass ride😁
It's too bad you couldn't have been around back then. We smoked grass chase some young ass and went fast LOL the 70s were awesome and I miss them so much. Best time to have ever been alive
@@70stunes71 brilliant 👍🏼😷
Stupid question, but why does the exhaust on old muscle cars always sound so crackly and rattly?
Few if any of these were stock mufflers or exhaust systems. Most of the cars even most of these in stock form were pretty quiet idling. Otherwise you may be noticing the HP cams with more duration and overlap causing the popping sounds. Also these cars do not have things like X crossover pipes or mufflers that give them that godawful euro sound. The mufflers used are what we call throaty and have a deeper tone.
1. Many manufacturers underrated their muscle car engines in the late '60s. They were torn between one upmanship of their competitors by having highest horsepower ratings and being able to sell them to anyone since the insurance companies were killing people who tried to insure the high horsepower cars.
2. The Mustang Boss 429 is NOT a muscle car. It is a Pony Car. Some might even call it a sports car, although that isn't really correct. Muscle cars were intermediates with large engines.
3. No L88 raced with stock exhaust. Headers were known to unlock about 100 hp on these big blocks, which fits with the understood 560 hp they were known to make.
That mustang must have a high tire budget.
Very cool! Thanks for sharing.
Pontiac SD 421, 1961-65 made 492hp and 500tq. Way before any of these! Pontiac RamAir ll & lV made 430-460hp and well over 500tq as well. Pontiac SD 455 made closer to 400hp & well over 500tq. Chevy 427 with 3duces makes 505hp and 535tq. I have worked on and driven many of these.
Yea the 73 SD 455 should have been on the list. That was the last true muscle car
Funny thing is they don’t want to give Pontiac the credit they are due. The 1964 Lemans with GTO option is documented as the first Muscle car. Before that Pontiac was dominating in NASCAR and 1/4mile with its Super Duty 389,s and Super Duty 421,s many years before any of these cars in this video. To be honest the 1963 Super Duty Tempest and Lemans cars, and there were 12 made, were the first factory built Muscle cars. Years before Mopar, Ford and Chevy. My uncle has always told me Pontiac was GM,s real and only Performance division. Until the racing ban for sure. They had to get creative after, and they did in a big sneeky way thankfully.
So everyones just gonna forget the judge engine by pontiac? 69 GTO judge ram air 5. Or very rarely on 69 firebirds.
I'm thinking they meant engines you could get at the factory as an option- RAV was only able to be purchased at the dealer.
Kevin Urani you will dig this...
They were all underrated because of the insurance.
My favorite color GSX !
wth, no Javelins or Rebels?
Or AMX!
That's because they are ALL slow ..
@@therealist4006 Umm no they weren't, not for their time. They were also lighter than alot of those cars. That 390 was no joke!
@@billyclub9733 Uh, yes they were slow, low HP & low torque. Simply didn't have enough to get it done. About as strong as the Ford 390.
@@therealist4006 Nope weren't as slow as you make em out to be. You're wrong.... they were loaded w torque and hp. Check your facts
These cars were sold in a detuned form for a couple of reasons. Mainly it was a futile attempt to keep Bobby Kennedy and the insurance companies appeased. The other is that although lots of boys think they want a race engine in their car. If they get one they learn that racing engines are terrible daily drivers. That 428 Ford was a much better street engine than the 427 or the Boss 429. A 440 Mopar with a single 4 barrel wad a lot easier to live with than a 426 Hemi. Similarly, over at GM the 350 advertised HP 327 with a carburetor and hydraulic lifters was a lot more user friendly than the 375 advertised HP 327 with FI and solid lifters.
Kiddies that is what you missed out on. HAHAHA!
@ 1:00 watch that car dance all over the place. Modern cars have better everything. Better build quality, fuel mileage, longer lasting, better at helping people walk away from a crash. Better in every way. And modern engines make more horsepower per cubic inch than those dinosaurs. Those old Detroit era cars look great in posters....and that's about it.
Floordford ROFLMFAO
Yeah we have some awesome cars today but we don't even have half the selection there was back then. I wish a lot of these cars still existed....GTX, Duster, Chevelle, Cuda, Fairlane 500..
gbales84 no we have computers with wheels wrapped in plastic that will be unusable in 20 years or less even if just parked outside and rarely drivin not cars. And they are expensive too. Makes me actually appreciate an Omni. Lol
@@NoName-tz5ji My car is still fairly analog :)
When I was a kid my aunt was married to the cousin of the California Flash, Super Stock.racer use to go to.their shop and watch,my x use to date Hairy Canery jr. Before me,they lived down the street Super Stock Racer,we use to go to Fremont Raceway in the day
0:50 what heaven looks like
For all of the "My car is better because I said so" people here, a good general rule of thumb for FACTORY muscle cars horsepower is most of them made about 1 hp per cubic inch. Some made a bit more, some a bit less, but most were in that range. You can also get a good idea if the hp rating was fudged by looking at the torque. Several muscle car engines were rated around 500 ft lbs. of torque, but rated in the mid 300s for hp, which is actually accurate, since heads and cams built for high torque generally make less hp, and heads and cams built for hp generally make less torque. Both numbers are important to consider when making comparisons between cars.
Never gets old , unlike me I was 16 in 69 , we would wreck a muscle car every weekend and go get another one on Monday !
An older brother of mine purchases a 1970 'Cuda with a 440 supercommando engine. Driven from the show room to the dunk, it produced on the dunk 456 horses right out of the showroom!!
Dyno* *
No Pontiac GTO Ram Air motors?
This is why the Dynojet is needed. Controlled repeatable pulls shows the engines are over rated, not under. Like the 454 LS6 mentioned in the comments. The trap speed with better tires shows 450 hp is a wild exaggeration.
Why no LS6 Chevelle?
i always wondered why they (high HP cars) always sound like they are going to die....never understood that..........i'm sure it has something to do with the way the gas goes into the carb or something....but what the hell do i know....lol
It's the intake and exhaust valves opening and closing violently from the aggressive lift camshaft.
Whistle Teets Thank you my girlfriend freaked out screaming what’s wrong with your car it sounds like it’s going to blow up.And my friend said do you know how many people would kill to have their car sound like this.A few minutes later she understood what the crazy noise was about.
What it is infact is misfiring. At lower rpm's the intake valve is open longer than it needs to be so some of the unburned gas backs up into the intake causing other cylinders to misfire somewhat. The idea is to allow for more air/fuel into the engine at higher rpms to make more power. It is the tradeoff for more HP. There is tuning and other things than can be done to help the idling along with raising the idle speed so it doesn't die. But most people want to keep the idle down so it does have plenty of that misfiring lope sound. It is music to me but I am embarrassed by the guys who run too low of an idle and about let it die. Dopey.
@@fredc8346 it's not a misfire it is really the exhaust duration it longer in degrees compared to the intake side, causing the exhaust to still be open and closing as the intake is opening to try and completely clear the combustion chamber of spent air/fuel, cause with the higher lift camshaft there will be longer duration and more overlapping of the valve being open causing the choppy or sucking wind sound. What you were describing would be a backfire and if it backfires through the intake there is something really wrong which is usually cause by your timing being off or detonation. But a "normal" backfire is when unburned air/fuel goes through the exhaust and burns in there also bad but livable
@2:10 if that cross on the mirror was a hammer all their teeth would be out
I like the 428 CJ Mustangs they're hot but I'd take any one on this list.
"Real HP" Numbers
Ford 427 R-Code = 460 HP
Ford 429 SCJ = 450 HP
I was thinking that the Ford 427 with 2-4 barrel carbs is one of the most underrated engines of all time. Factory h.p. 425. ....in actuality is was close to 500. My dad owned a marauder with that 427 and could not be beat by anything back in the late 60's
@@matthewmanley6656 Very nice, Loved the big Mercs. Yes I also seen in and old Drag Race Mag that the R-Code when tuned right was capable of 480-500 HP, but didn't wan't a Mopar or Chevy fight breaking out !! Lol
I Love all the Classic American Muscle, Big Car show fan for 30+ years : )
Where my Roadrunner 🤔 🤷🏾♂️