When working with IC10, I like to break down the logic to boolean flags. For instance, For your Oxygen pump into the breathable air line, you say breathableAirOxygenRatio < 0.33 AND breathableAirPressure < 100kPa. That flag becomes the ON for the pump. You set the "safe" conditions for each pump/device and it will work itself out. Atmospherics: inputPressure > 0 AND inputFilteredGasRatio > 0 AND wastePressure < 50kPa AND outputPressure < 50kPa. Then you don't need to think in "stages" for the equipment and your logic becomes much less complex as far as branching is concerned. Your cooling loop: outputPump ON == coolingChamberPressure > 0 AND coolingChamberTemp < 293K, hotInputPump ON == coolingChamberPressure < 5MPa AND coolingChamberTemp > 300K OR coolingChamberPressure == 0kPa (this is to kick off the cycle by when the cooling chamber is evacuated.)
When working with IC10 (or any code) I'm using at least 50% of my energy to simply not get frustrated and walk away, any code I get that works at the end is a victory in my book :D
@@Flipsie Biggest secret to programming? Pen and paper. 80%+ of the work is done before you touch the keyboard 😉 Unfortunately, this doesn't "stream" well 🤷♂️😂
@@edwardcullen1739 Another way to achieve that is to write it down, as comments in the code itself (or in this case, before the code itself). Bonus points because having all of those comments in your code not only makes it easier to understand for non programmers, but it ALSO annoys real programmers in the process.
@@exarch404 I do agree with the comments. Most of the time I write the comment code first if it will be a more complicated program and then try to slowly figure out from there. Though if it will be a very long complicated code, I tend to break it down and test single segments at a time as best as I can manipulate conditions to trigger them. Something like Splitsie's fix oxygen ratio part I can temporarily set the ratio required high to make sure the pump comes on and lower it when I need the pump off. If I can make sure little bits at a time are working how I want them to, I can move on to the next step or next set of actions knowing that the first set should be working right. Especially since I would think I would want to fix the CO2 and O2 ratio/partial pressure first and after that I would pump in nitrogen to fill in the missing pressure to get to room temp. Something like: If O2 partial < desired setting; then turn on O2 pump if CO2 partial < desired setting; then turn on CO2 pump if O2 and CO2 are at desired partial pressure AND Pressure < 100kpa; Then and only Then turn on Nitrogen pump I'd check and do the O2 and CO2 at the same time and once those are good then the Nitrogen pump could come on. That way I dont pressurize with too much Nitrogen, but the problem I can see is that if I run out of O2 or CO2 I could potentially get stuck at the O2 or CO2 pump and Nitrogen may never get pumped in until I have O2 and CO2 at the setting.
I had to stop the video and go look up info on the concentrated CO2 pockets. They are called a mazuku and they are caused by volcanic flows under the ground. Fascinating.
43:09 Sounds like you want a "priority filtering" tank with stuff coming back from your breathable areas (minimally polluted and/or off balance), and a separate "filter whenever" tank which only gets introduced into the filtering when there's excess capacity. The "filter whenever" tank can then take the bursts of the nasty or hot stuff from industrial processes around the place, and the current backlog of unfiltered gases. (Which also means that you only have to run it's intake pipe to your industrial setup).
I found that using 4 active vents an a gas sensor is the easiest solution to base pressurization. You have 3 vents for the gasses. Set all of the PressureExternal the same, then set them to turn off based on the corresponding gas ratio. The last vent is the return, which is on at all times. You can change the amount of flow the base has by changing the PressureExternal on that vent. Say the incoming vents are 78. Setting the return to 77.8 is low flow, whereas 75 would give much more. This is a sort of an all in one solution, and the coding is extermely easy. Either way, interesting to see what you come up with the pumps. I will say that the back pressure regulator probably doesn't have enough flow to do much. It works, but it takes a while. Love the series!
Never underestimate the importance of space for pipes, i work in a place with dozens of tanks, pumps, filters, mixing tanks, water manifolds and the pipework to interconnect them all, it takes up an absurd amount of space.
There were some of those gas pockets in Greece and we have records of people sending animals in for the spectacle. Especially when people could walk through unaffected being much further from the ground
if you want to keep your base atmos air cool and still filter for containments, you could create a mini tank and filter N, O2, and C before dumping the waste to the main waste tank
Yeah agree. I have sections with closeable door in between but prefer to have them open. There are nice bulkhead doors for safety doors I am using for my under floor sections but they might be good for emergency doors
Splitsie, here's a definition you might like: Hardware: That which you can chop with an axe 🪓 Software: That which you can only curse at 🤬 Cant remember for sure, but I think its by Mexican cartoonist/comedian Rius.
Given all the trouble you have cooling gasses down to breathable levels, wouldn't it make more sense to mimic at least part of your hot gas filtration for all the cooler base gas returned from your living spaces (ie filter out pollutants) rather than adding it to the hot "dirty" gas line first to then cool it down again later on? That way, you would just need to add gasses from your cold tanks to get it to the right percentages and store it in a "good breathable base gas" tank. Another advantage is you'll always have at least this tank to pull from in the future, in case your greenhouse or the eating room ever get heavily contaminated and you need to purge them.
Hey splitsie, as programmer, i have a little tip/suggestion for your gas mixing script, my tip is just general approach to problem solving in programming with example -> split your problem into smaller parts to make it easier to code and more usable for more then just breathable air. Example on your use case: Have 1 script to do only 1 gas to settable kPa. Yes you would have to use 3 chips for just your air, but then you can take that script and use as some kind of advanced pressure regulator for specific type of gas, also for fuel mixing (ingame gas mixer is not good when you have difference in temperature before mixing).. Also, it would be much easier later to expand your script to introduce some tolerance / Min-Max kPa, that would solve thing you try solve by using sleep (so it wont flick on/off every tick) .. Also you probably need two way system that can ADD and REMOVE, currently you only adding? Your greenhouse will produce O2 so you will need to constantly remove it, but sometimes when you expand you will need to add.
@1:27:00 definition of halt and catch fire from google. Halt and Catch Fire is a computer machine code instruction that was originally meant to make a computer's central processing unit (CPU) stop working, but in some cases could cause it to overheat and physically damage the hardware.
Halt and Catch Fire is actually an idiom about a processor stopping so hard it requires the PC to be rebooted to get going again. Old paper tape machines were quite flammable, and this is where the catch fire part comes in IIRC. They didn't *deliberately* program CPUs to catch fire. In Stationeers, it explodes the IC.
There was a CPU with a literal "halt and catch fire" operation. It would stop executing and then cycle the address lines as fast as possible. The current draw would overheat the chip.
I'm not sure if this will be helpful or if you already got a plan for the cooling bottleneck. If so feel free to ignore :) Looking back, the hot side is definitely restricting you pretty bad. If I can guesstimate in breaking it down... I think it is doing something like: 1st AC: 460 -405 C, Probably moving around 2kJ to 5kJ 2nd AC: 405C - 350C, Probably moving around 3kJ to 6 kJ 3rd AC: 350C - 300C, Probably moving around 4kJ to 7 kJ. Those first three are definitely hindering you and may need to have some parallel acs. Because looking at your 2 water phase change loops, the first is limited to 360C to maybe 250C but can probably go lower but the second AC should be around 250C and go down to maybe 140C but can be lower. They can move quite a lot of heat and you caught the evap chamber for the first one at 20kJ latent heat which means even if only half of that is being pushed out to the ACs, you already have 10kJ trying to very slowly go out with a bottleneck of 3kJ, the heat gets trapped in your water phase change loop. This will cause it to heat up and then eventually your second water loop will heat up as well and if the cold side of the second gets above 152C, then your pollutants cannot move any more heat. This would explain why the 3rd water loop is seemingly doing better, because that one isnt limited to 152C like pollutants are so it can keep moving thermal energy. Though the bottleneck at the top is something you will need to address. I'd recommend parallel ACs so that your first AC has maybe 2 or 3 ACs working in parallel so that you can be moving at minimum 6kJ of thermal energy, then the next two ACs you just double. Maybe then you can reliably move the heat out of your system. The AC at the coldest end cooling your hot tank is probably moving close to 14kJ of thermal energy into your phase change loops so maybe you might need to revisit the top end to make sure it is capable of moving much more thermal energy compared to the bottom to get some decent cooling. If you want to go strictly with phase change though, you'd probably need to build a massive powered vent farm to suck in Venusian Storm air (355C) to power your water phase change loop... it would be significantly cheap power wise, but at the same time... You'd need a lot of powered vents and air tank storage to truly fuel such a large system since you are now actively cooling hot air. Edit: Also, I appreciate that you are doing this without following the "Elmo's hyperefficient AC" that was discussed by the chat. It feels like any attempts to innovate cooling have become stale because that setup Elmo made/discovered is too good that alternatives just can't measure up; so most of the times it becomes a "why bother making something when something infinitely better already exists" type thing.
Make a head lamp or flashlight. That way you can have light without the suit. You can have a source and return pipe running all rooms. Each room having its own sensor. If the room detects a breach close supply line using digital valve. Begin pumping out the room. Each room would be a self contained logic system for that room. This can be connected to the airlock to seal the room. You would have the digital valve in the room that its for this way your logic is local to the room.
@@WolfPlaysGames2 he needs a digital valve to shut off supply if the room is breached or it would drain his breathing air into the atmosphere. One way valves would be in the system for supply to prevent contacting the supply line. But you will always need a digital valve for emergency shutting off supply to the room.
Splitsie programming non-trivial code on Stationeer's IC10, doing flow programming in Archean, you really came a long way! I recon in 5 years of playing programming-esque games, you might be able to start that video game you said you wanted to make with Capac
I used to have to do confined space rescue training every year and they loved talking about low oxygen but i injected too much oxygen is also bad that the trainer finally started to include it too. But yea the story about the animals is too similarly to part of the training as over half the victims in these rescues are would be rescuers.
@1:54:00 I haven't finished video so see if you have solved this. My biggest tip for programing is to figure out a logic flowchart to break down each step. In this example step 1 does the pipe have enough pressure? if yes turn off all the pumps and jump to start. if no go to step 2 step 2 for each gas figure out if it is below min ratio for that gas, if so turn on that pump, if not move to next gas type (or step 3 if last gas) step 3 for each gas figure out if above max ratio for that gas, if so turn off pump, if not move to next gas type (or jump to start if last gas) figure out your logic before you try to code (even putting it in comments in the code) because trying to figure out the logic while also trying to remember the specific code commands can be a pain (tips from someone who took coding classes decades ago and has forgotten most of the commands but still likes logic problems)
The problem with step 1 of your code, is that if the room pressure ever reaches more than 100kpa, and the greenhouse slowly starts converting O2 into CO2, the system will never correct that. There are various ways to mix breathable atmosphere, but trying to get it all done with one system or IC chip is going to be really tricky.
@@exarch404 true, but he planned on over pressuring the rooms thus having a constant flow. With this in mind the room volume will always be draining to below the max pressure, thereby having a built in self correcting nature. So my step 1 was keeping this in mind. The biggest reason why I had turn off all pumps was if a situation were to occur where the in pipes didn't empty as fast, thus preventing a pipe burst. But I'm only thinking about the problem from a solely a logic side. I do not have the game experience to back up my ideas.
your loops are bad at moving heat because the heat exchanges in the middle short-circuit them. remove teh heat exchanges so the hot gas can actually carry the heat all the way to the condensation chamber, instead of dumping it back in the liquid to limit how much the evap chamber can take out of teh hot gas
You want the gas as cold as possible before it goes into the condensation chamber and you want the liquid to be hot before it goes into the evaporation chamber. His heat exchanger is good.
@@WolfPlaysGames2 nope, other way around - you want it as hot as possible going into condensation so it can dump all the heat into the waste pipe, and as cold as possible in evap so it can pick up as much heat as possible
@@echodeal7725 Just to be fair, I ran a head-to-head test with pollutants and let it settle in to equalibrium. The latent heat transfer stat is about 30% higher in the phase change machine with a direct connection. However, when I measured the effect on a heat sink at the outputs, the heat exchanger won handily. The heat exchange config achieved a temperature differential of 246c (146 vs -100) while the direct config only got 89.9c (62.3 vs -27.5) and it also took longer to get there. I think the reason that the phase change machine stats appear better with the direct connection is that not all the latent energy transfer goes to the outputs. Part of it cools/warms the gas/liquid that's changing phase. In the heat exchange config, a portion of that is done by the heat exchanger, so the phase change machines have to do less work.
You are misunderstanding, the counterflow heat exchangers are making the setup better because what typically comes out of the condensation chamber are hot liquids and what comes out of the evaporation chamber are cold gases. The counterflow heat exchange attempts to swap the temps of those two states so that cold liquids head to the evaporation chamber and hot liquids head into the condensation chamber, thus making sure that more heat moves into the condensation chamber.
@@echodeal7725 I ran a test setup just to be sure. The heat exchanger config won easily. It settled into an output heat differential of 246c (146- (-)100) while the direct setup only made it to 90c (62- (-)28). It think the confusion lies in the fact that the phase machines in the direct setup dislayed a latent heat change 30% higher than the machines in the heat exchanger setup. But not all of that cooling power was going to the outputs. Much of it is warming/cooling the contents of the phase change loop. If you want to compare latent heat stats, you have to add the heat transfer stats from the heat exchanger, too...
Regarding your Cooling-Line, you can setup the AC's in a different way so that the efficiencies are all almost 100%. With this the cooling power could become almost 2.5 times the current one, it may even proof more powerful then your whole cooling-setup but there i am not sure of it. I comment very rarely so i do not know what can be postet and if i am allowed to post CZcams links here. Search a video with title 'Lets talk about Cooling - Stationeers', done by 'Elmotrix'. I recommend you watch the whole thing but when you jump more or less to the end of the video, there he presents a simplyfied version of the cooling-loop. I had a setup like you regarding the AC's, but i only used AC's without phase-change. This new setup almost tripled the cooling-power of my setup while reducing the amount of AC's from 18 to 14
I'm guessing that is what chat referred to as 'elmo's cheesy build' which takes advantage of some oddities in the game to effectively cheat perfect efficiency. I use cheat loosely here because it's functional, but almost certainly not intended behaviour and it's one of those cheesy methods that for me, takes fun out of the game because I don't get to explore the more interesting intended solutions :)
@@Flipsie I get the impression he's more or less turned the AC units into a powered heat exchanger (ignoring the actual cheese at the end). My main takeaway from his video is that in the classic setup of chaining ACs (like you are basically doing), the hot side of the cooling setup somehow seems to benefit more from multiple ACs in parallel than the cold side? Although I have no idea why that would make much of a difference.
To answer why, based on the three efficiencies, they cut the AC’s heat moving power of toughly 14kJ down. Venus at high temps would cut it down to maybe 4-5kJ on the hot end, parallel ACs means you can have 2 acs moving 5kJ each for total 10kJ. As we see on the cooler ends we can move much more heat so the bottleneck of only moving barely 5kJ limits the overall powerflow. You need those parallel ACs so that you can have a better cooling output so his pollutant phase change loop wont starve out and can do better than the water loop in parallel with it.
1:06:30 Splitsie: "Khaki" -> "Car key" Also Splitsie: "You are saying it incorrectly, not us." Meanwhile there's no "r" in "Khaki". UK: Kaaki, but they also thinks it's the same as "Olive Green" so... US: Kacki Also I'm pretty sure it originated in india so I'll let them be the Arbiter I guess. Tan seems to be the less controversial nomenclature. Edit: Actually looking it up the word is from Urdu so not indian... Literally means "Dust colored".
Tan is different to khaki, also, I just take great pleasure in saying North Americans are pronouncing things wrong with how many times people tried to correct me on how the rest of the world says solder :P
@@Flipsie I became immune to pronunciation shaming decades ago. I spent so much time in countries other than USA that I realized the incredible diversity of "correct" English and the only thing that really matters here is effective communication.
Couldn't help but freeze frame after the crash out to desktop at 15:22 just to compare notes. Notice he has Stardew Valley, but hasn't gotten Starstruck Vagabond, so either doesn't know or isn't interested in Yahtzee Croshaw/Second Wind. He has Sunless Sea but not Sunless Sky, indicating the Fallen London setting wasn't that interesting. Stellaris is still loaded, so I'm curious if he spends any time with it these days and whether he's spent the gobs of cash for all the DLC. Finally, I would have figured Space Engineers was obsessively kept up to date... 😁
A trick I found in Stationeers wiki, on Europa: active vent pulling into a pipe with a passive drain somewhere on the pipe. Around 6MPa the oxygen starts to condense, and the heat of vaporization and the compression raise the temperature in the pipe 37 degrees. Hook that up as the output for an air conditioner and you can (slowly) heat up a space.
I specifically noted in the title that I missed the blammo and on the thumbnail that it was (probably) an old one. The whole roof has exploded but I don't know when 😬
@@Flipsie I was expecting a bigger set of consequences, so was looking for you finding it had happened :). I'm late into the second episode VOD atm in catch-up but couldn;t resist seeing what had gone wrong.
Apparently it's possible I'm duplicating my total input power by having the two heavy transformers in parallel as I do, but I can't think of another setup I can use that is as simple to set up so I've been largely ignoring it :P
Somehow with the way it is coded, If two transformers are in parallel, Same inputs and same outputs, somehow the transformers both put out their max output setting, yet only 1 of them pulls in that amount of power from the input. Which is odd cause you would think both take in the input as required and push out the output as asked. That was how it was explained to me though, I'm not entirely 100% on how true this is.
about the cooling: having 3 ACs to get from atmosphere of ~460°C down to 330°C should be sufficient. On my play I have 2x 3 ACs (460 -> 430 (AC) -> 380 (AC) -> 330 (AC)) in parallel - each with its own line to the outside (otherwise the temp change doesnt work quiet well), and after that 3 phase change loops brings my coolant at the end down to ~60-80°C.
I’m surprised Shadow hasn’t had a aneurysm from all the mess around your base.
When working with IC10, I like to break down the logic to boolean flags. For instance, For your Oxygen pump into the breathable air line, you say breathableAirOxygenRatio < 0.33 AND breathableAirPressure < 100kPa. That flag becomes the ON for the pump. You set the "safe" conditions for each pump/device and it will work itself out. Atmospherics: inputPressure > 0 AND inputFilteredGasRatio > 0 AND wastePressure < 50kPa AND outputPressure < 50kPa. Then you don't need to think in "stages" for the equipment and your logic becomes much less complex as far as branching is concerned. Your cooling loop: outputPump ON == coolingChamberPressure > 0 AND coolingChamberTemp < 293K, hotInputPump ON == coolingChamberPressure < 5MPa AND coolingChamberTemp > 300K OR coolingChamberPressure == 0kPa (this is to kick off the cycle by when the cooling chamber is evacuated.)
I'm exactly the same.
I like to rewrite whatever he writes in a IC simulator, just to challenge myself to do it "my way" .. or I guess "our way" lol.
When working with IC10 (or any code) I'm using at least 50% of my energy to simply not get frustrated and walk away, any code I get that works at the end is a victory in my book :D
@@Flipsie Biggest secret to programming?
Pen and paper. 80%+ of the work is done before you touch the keyboard 😉
Unfortunately, this doesn't "stream" well 🤷♂️😂
@@edwardcullen1739 Another way to achieve that is to write it down, as comments in the code itself (or in this case, before the code itself).
Bonus points because having all of those comments in your code not only makes it easier to understand for non programmers, but it ALSO annoys real programmers in the process.
@@exarch404 I do agree with the comments. Most of the time I write the comment code first if it will be a more complicated program and then try to slowly figure out from there. Though if it will be a very long complicated code, I tend to break it down and test single segments at a time as best as I can manipulate conditions to trigger them. Something like Splitsie's fix oxygen ratio part I can temporarily set the ratio required high to make sure the pump comes on and lower it when I need the pump off. If I can make sure little bits at a time are working how I want them to, I can move on to the next step or next set of actions knowing that the first set should be working right. Especially since I would think I would want to fix the CO2 and O2 ratio/partial pressure first and after that I would pump in nitrogen to fill in the missing pressure to get to room temp. Something like:
If O2 partial < desired setting; then turn on O2 pump
if CO2 partial < desired setting; then turn on CO2 pump
if O2 and CO2 are at desired partial pressure AND Pressure < 100kpa; Then and only Then turn on Nitrogen pump
I'd check and do the O2 and CO2 at the same time and once those are good then the Nitrogen pump could come on. That way I dont pressurize with too much Nitrogen, but the problem I can see is that if I run out of O2 or CO2 I could potentially get stuck at the O2 or CO2 pump and Nitrogen may never get pumped in until I have O2 and CO2 at the setting.
I had to stop the video and go look up info on the concentrated CO2 pockets. They are called a mazuku and they are caused by volcanic flows under the ground. Fascinating.
43:09 Sounds like you want a "priority filtering" tank with stuff coming back from your breathable areas (minimally polluted and/or off balance), and a separate "filter whenever" tank which only gets introduced into the filtering when there's excess capacity.
The "filter whenever" tank can then take the bursts of the nasty or hot stuff from industrial processes around the place, and the current backlog of unfiltered gases. (Which also means that you only have to run it's intake pipe to your industrial setup).
I found that using 4 active vents an a gas sensor is the easiest solution to base pressurization. You have 3 vents for the gasses. Set all of the PressureExternal the same, then set them to turn off based on the corresponding gas ratio. The last vent is the return, which is on at all times. You can change the amount of flow the base has by changing the PressureExternal on that vent. Say the incoming vents are 78. Setting the return to 77.8 is low flow, whereas 75 would give much more. This is a sort of an all in one solution, and the coding is extermely easy.
Either way, interesting to see what you come up with the pumps. I will say that the back pressure regulator probably doesn't have enough flow to do much. It works, but it takes a while. Love the series!
thats what I do always since thats pretty easy. you can also do this with pressure regulators on a pipe though
Never underestimate the importance of space for pipes, i work in a place with dozens of tanks, pumps, filters, mixing tanks, water manifolds and the pipework to interconnect them all, it takes up an absurd amount of space.
The way that Stationeers Suit Lady says "Hunger critical" always gets me. She sounds pitiful, and I want to give her a hug.
"there is nothing more permanent than a temporary solution that works"
There were some of those gas pockets in Greece and we have records of people sending animals in for the spectacle. Especially when people could walk through unaffected being much further from the ground
if you want to keep your base atmos air cool and still filter for containments, you could create a mini tank and filter N, O2, and C before dumping the waste to the main waste tank
Yeah agree. I have sections with closeable door in between but prefer to have them open. There are nice bulkhead doors for safety doors I am using for my under floor sections but they might be good for emergency doors
Small tip for the IC housing. If you don't set any pins and run the chip, then any the alias set for a pin will show on the pin's tool tip.
Purple for the colour your face will go if u run out :)
I had the same thought lol..
Splitsie, here's a definition you might like:
Hardware: That which you can chop with an axe 🪓
Software: That which you can only curse at 🤬
Cant remember for sure, but I think its by Mexican cartoonist/comedian Rius.
I am glad u clarified why u knew so much about death by gas :)
lol I suppose that could have been taken the wrong way :D
Given all the trouble you have cooling gasses down to breathable levels, wouldn't it make more sense to mimic at least part of your hot gas filtration for all the cooler base gas returned from your living spaces (ie filter out pollutants) rather than adding it to the hot "dirty" gas line first to then cool it down again later on?
That way, you would just need to add gasses from your cold tanks to get it to the right percentages and store it in a "good breathable base gas" tank.
Another advantage is you'll always have at least this tank to pull from in the future, in case your greenhouse or the eating room ever get heavily contaminated and you need to purge them.
Hey splitsie, as programmer, i have a little tip/suggestion for your gas mixing script, my tip is just general approach to problem solving in programming with example -> split your problem into smaller parts to make it easier to code and more usable for more then just breathable air.
Example on your use case: Have 1 script to do only 1 gas to settable kPa. Yes you would have to use 3 chips for just your air, but then you can take that script and use as some kind of advanced pressure regulator for specific type of gas, also for fuel mixing (ingame gas mixer is not good when you have difference in temperature before mixing).. Also, it would be much easier later to expand your script to introduce some tolerance / Min-Max kPa, that would solve thing you try solve by using sleep (so it wont flick on/off every tick) .. Also you probably need two way system that can ADD and REMOVE, currently you only adding? Your greenhouse will produce O2 so you will need to constantly remove it, but sometimes when you expand you will need to add.
@1:27:00 definition of halt and catch fire from google. Halt and Catch Fire is a computer machine code instruction that was originally meant to make a computer's central processing unit (CPU) stop working, but in some cases could cause it to overheat and physically damage the hardware.
Halt and Catch Fire is actually an idiom about a processor stopping so hard it requires the PC to be rebooted to get going again. Old paper tape machines were quite flammable, and this is where the catch fire part comes in IIRC. They didn't *deliberately* program CPUs to catch fire. In Stationeers, it explodes the IC.
There was a CPU with a literal "halt and catch fire" operation. It would stop executing and then cycle the address lines as fast as possible. The current draw would overheat the chip.
I'm not sure if this will be helpful or if you already got a plan for the cooling bottleneck. If so feel free to ignore :)
Looking back, the hot side is definitely restricting you pretty bad. If I can guesstimate in breaking it down... I think it is doing something like:
1st AC: 460 -405 C, Probably moving around 2kJ to 5kJ
2nd AC: 405C - 350C, Probably moving around 3kJ to 6 kJ
3rd AC: 350C - 300C, Probably moving around 4kJ to 7 kJ.
Those first three are definitely hindering you and may need to have some parallel acs. Because looking at your 2 water phase change loops, the first is limited to 360C to maybe 250C but can probably go lower but the second AC should be around 250C and go down to maybe 140C but can be lower. They can move quite a lot of heat and you caught the evap chamber for the first one at 20kJ latent heat which means even if only half of that is being pushed out to the ACs, you already have 10kJ trying to very slowly go out with a bottleneck of 3kJ, the heat gets trapped in your water phase change loop. This will cause it to heat up and then eventually your second water loop will heat up as well and if the cold side of the second gets above 152C, then your pollutants cannot move any more heat. This would explain why the 3rd water loop is seemingly doing better, because that one isnt limited to 152C like pollutants are so it can keep moving thermal energy. Though the bottleneck at the top is something you will need to address.
I'd recommend parallel ACs so that your first AC has maybe 2 or 3 ACs working in parallel so that you can be moving at minimum 6kJ of thermal energy, then the next two ACs you just double. Maybe then you can reliably move the heat out of your system. The AC at the coldest end cooling your hot tank is probably moving close to 14kJ of thermal energy into your phase change loops so maybe you might need to revisit the top end to make sure it is capable of moving much more thermal energy compared to the bottom to get some decent cooling. If you want to go strictly with phase change though, you'd probably need to build a massive powered vent farm to suck in Venusian Storm air (355C) to power your water phase change loop... it would be significantly cheap power wise, but at the same time... You'd need a lot of powered vents and air tank storage to truly fuel such a large system since you are now actively cooling hot air.
Edit: Also, I appreciate that you are doing this without following the "Elmo's hyperefficient AC" that was discussed by the chat. It feels like any attempts to innovate cooling have become stale because that setup Elmo made/discovered is too good that alternatives just can't measure up; so most of the times it becomes a "why bother making something when something infinitely better already exists" type thing.
Make a head lamp or flashlight. That way you can have light without the suit. You can have a source and return pipe running all rooms. Each room having its own sensor. If the room detects a breach close supply line using digital valve. Begin pumping out the room. Each room would be a self contained logic system for that room. This can be connected to the airlock to seal the room. You would have the digital valve in the room that its for this way your logic is local to the room.
Since he has seperate lines in and out, one-way valves will work just fine to prevent backflow between the rooms without the need for extra logic.
@@WolfPlaysGames2 he needs a digital valve to shut off supply if the room is breached or it would drain his breathing air into the atmosphere. One way valves would be in the system for supply to prevent contacting the supply line. But you will always need a digital valve for emergency shutting off supply to the room.
Splitsie programming non-trivial code on Stationeer's IC10, doing flow programming in Archean, you really came a long way!
I recon in 5 years of playing programming-esque games, you might be able to start that video game you said you wanted to make with Capac
lol Maybe :D
You need to filter your air in parallel to speed up the process.
I used to have to do confined space rescue training every year and they loved talking about low oxygen but i injected too much oxygen is also bad that the trainer finally started to include it too. But yea the story about the animals is too similarly to part of the training as over half the victims in these rescues are would be rescuers.
@1:54:00 I haven't finished video so see if you have solved this. My biggest tip for programing is to figure out a logic flowchart to break down each step. In this example
step 1 does the pipe have enough pressure? if yes turn off all the pumps and jump to start. if no go to step 2
step 2 for each gas figure out if it is below min ratio for that gas, if so turn on that pump, if not move to next gas type (or step 3 if last gas)
step 3 for each gas figure out if above max ratio for that gas, if so turn off pump, if not move to next gas type (or jump to start if last gas)
figure out your logic before you try to code (even putting it in comments in the code) because trying to figure out the logic while also trying to remember the specific code commands can be a pain
(tips from someone who took coding classes decades ago and has forgotten most of the commands but still likes logic problems)
The problem with step 1 of your code, is that if the room pressure ever reaches more than 100kpa, and the greenhouse slowly starts converting O2 into CO2, the system will never correct that.
There are various ways to mix breathable atmosphere, but trying to get it all done with one system or IC chip is going to be really tricky.
@@exarch404 true, but he planned on over pressuring the rooms thus having a constant flow. With this in mind the room volume will always be draining to below the max pressure, thereby having a built in self correcting nature. So my step 1 was keeping this in mind. The biggest reason why I had turn off all pumps was if a situation were to occur where the in pipes didn't empty as fast, thus preventing a pipe burst. But I'm only thinking about the problem from a solely a logic side. I do not have the game experience to back up my ideas.
your loops are bad at moving heat because the heat exchanges in the middle short-circuit them. remove teh heat exchanges so the hot gas can actually carry the heat all the way to the condensation chamber, instead of dumping it back in the liquid to limit how much the evap chamber can take out of teh hot gas
You want the gas as cold as possible before it goes into the condensation chamber and you want the liquid to be hot before it goes into the evaporation chamber. His heat exchanger is good.
@@WolfPlaysGames2 nope, other way around - you want it as hot as possible going into condensation so it can dump all the heat into the waste pipe, and as cold as possible in evap so it can pick up as much heat as possible
@@echodeal7725 Just to be fair, I ran a head-to-head test with pollutants and let it settle in to equalibrium. The latent heat transfer stat is about 30% higher in the phase change machine with a direct connection.
However, when I measured the effect on a heat sink at the outputs, the heat exchanger won handily. The heat exchange config achieved a temperature differential of 246c (146 vs -100) while the direct config only got 89.9c (62.3 vs -27.5) and it also took longer to get there.
I think the reason that the phase change machine stats appear better with the direct connection is that not all the latent energy transfer goes to the outputs. Part of it cools/warms the gas/liquid that's changing phase. In the heat exchange config, a portion of that is done by the heat exchanger, so the phase change machines have to do less work.
You are misunderstanding, the counterflow heat exchangers are making the setup better because what typically comes out of the condensation chamber are hot liquids and what comes out of the evaporation chamber are cold gases. The counterflow heat exchange attempts to swap the temps of those two states so that cold liquids head to the evaporation chamber and hot liquids head into the condensation chamber, thus making sure that more heat moves into the condensation chamber.
@@echodeal7725 I ran a test setup just to be sure. The heat exchanger config won easily. It settled into an output heat differential of 246c (146- (-)100) while the direct setup only made it to 90c (62- (-)28). It think the confusion lies in the fact that the phase machines in the direct setup dislayed a latent heat change 30% higher than the machines in the heat exchanger setup. But not all of that cooling power was going to the outputs. Much of it is warming/cooling the contents of the phase change loop. If you want to compare latent heat stats, you have to add the heat transfer stats from the heat exchanger, too...
Regarding your Cooling-Line, you can setup the AC's in a different way so that the efficiencies are all almost 100%. With this the cooling power could become almost 2.5 times the current one, it may even proof more powerful then your whole cooling-setup but there i am not sure of it.
I comment very rarely so i do not know what can be postet and if i am allowed to post CZcams links here.
Search a video with title 'Lets talk about Cooling - Stationeers', done by 'Elmotrix'.
I recommend you watch the whole thing but when you jump more or less to the end of the video, there he presents a simplyfied version of the cooling-loop.
I had a setup like you regarding the AC's, but i only used AC's without phase-change. This new setup almost tripled the cooling-power of my setup while reducing the amount of AC's from 18 to 14
I'm guessing that is what chat referred to as 'elmo's cheesy build' which takes advantage of some oddities in the game to effectively cheat perfect efficiency. I use cheat loosely here because it's functional, but almost certainly not intended behaviour and it's one of those cheesy methods that for me, takes fun out of the game because I don't get to explore the more interesting intended solutions :)
@@Flipsie I get the impression he's more or less turned the AC units into a powered heat exchanger (ignoring the actual cheese at the end).
My main takeaway from his video is that in the classic setup of chaining ACs (like you are basically doing), the hot side of the cooling setup somehow seems to benefit more from multiple ACs in parallel than the cold side? Although I have no idea why that would make much of a difference.
To answer why, based on the three efficiencies, they cut the AC’s heat moving power of toughly 14kJ down. Venus at high temps would cut it down to maybe 4-5kJ on the hot end, parallel ACs means you can have 2 acs moving 5kJ each for total 10kJ. As we see on the cooler ends we can move much more heat so the bottleneck of only moving barely 5kJ limits the overall powerflow. You need those parallel ACs so that you can have a better cooling output so his pollutant phase change loop wont starve out and can do better than the water loop in parallel with it.
as @cowsareevil7514 says you need to paint everything right if you dont want it to explode
1:06:30 Splitsie: "Khaki" -> "Car key"
Also Splitsie: "You are saying it incorrectly, not us."
Meanwhile there's no "r" in "Khaki".
UK: Kaaki, but they also thinks it's the same as "Olive Green" so...
US: Kacki
Also I'm pretty sure it originated in india so I'll let them be the Arbiter I guess.
Tan seems to be the less controversial nomenclature.
Edit: Actually looking it up the word is from Urdu so not indian... Literally means "Dust colored".
Tan is different to khaki, also, I just take great pleasure in saying North Americans are pronouncing things wrong with how many times people tried to correct me on how the rest of the world says solder :P
@@Flipsie I became immune to pronunciation shaming decades ago. I spent so much time in countries other than USA that I realized the incredible diversity of "correct" English and the only thing that really matters here is effective communication.
Hahaha. Another episode of stuff goes boom.
Does anyone know if it's possible to use phase change to "filter" the gases, by liquifying them? I know it works irl.
You can, my system separates water this way 🙂
Yes, it is the only way to do it at a large scale, as the terraforming mod needs
Purple is a Noble colour
Couldn't help but freeze frame after the crash out to desktop at 15:22 just to compare notes. Notice he has Stardew Valley, but hasn't gotten Starstruck Vagabond, so either doesn't know or isn't interested in Yahtzee Croshaw/Second Wind. He has Sunless Sea but not Sunless Sky, indicating the Fallen London setting wasn't that interesting. Stellaris is still loaded, so I'm curious if he spends any time with it these days and whether he's spent the gobs of cash for all the DLC. Finally, I would have figured Space Engineers was obsessively kept up to date... 😁
I wonder if phase change could be used as furnace heater?
A trick I found in Stationeers wiki, on Europa: active vent pulling into a pipe with a passive drain somewhere on the pipe. Around 6MPa the oxygen starts to condense, and the heat of vaporization and the compression raise the temperature in the pipe 37 degrees. Hook that up as the output for an air conditioner and you can (slowly) heat up a space.
Water phase change tops out at 370c, so that's that the maximum at the moment. It's enough to degas but it won't smelt.
Anyone got tiomestamps on the Blamo/s? Playing cathup on the vods atm but the title has me intrigued enough to want to see the aftermath at least.
2:30:ish.... not killer excitment
I specifically noted in the title that I missed the blammo and on the thumbnail that it was (probably) an old one. The whole roof has exploded but I don't know when 😬
@@Flipsie I was expecting a bigger set of consequences, so was looking for you finding it had happened :).
I'm late into the second episode VOD atm in catch-up but couldn;t resist seeing what had gone wrong.
@darthkarl99 I think the lucky to have a roof is still accurate, that could have been magnificently worse.
Hey Splitsie.
Nice greenhouse, however your running low on N2.
You will need this to grow soybean for soy oil.
That's what this atmospheric setup is intended to resolve, that's why I was balancing N2 in the system :)
What is the problem with the power / the cheat that is happening with it?
Apparently it's possible I'm duplicating my total input power by having the two heavy transformers in parallel as I do, but I can't think of another setup I can use that is as simple to set up so I've been largely ignoring it :P
Somehow with the way it is coded, If two transformers are in parallel, Same inputs and same outputs, somehow the transformers both put out their max output setting, yet only 1 of them pulls in that amount of power from the input. Which is odd cause you would think both take in the input as required and push out the output as asked.
That was how it was explained to me though, I'm not entirely 100% on how true this is.
@@shadowdrake082 Thanks for the answer :)
How are you guys finishing the vod so fast?!
Probably viewers of the live stream or members early access
We haven’t lol.
We just comment as we are watching.
It stops the first, second and third shenanigans
about the cooling:
having 3 ACs to get from atmosphere of ~460°C down to 330°C should be sufficient. On my play I have 2x 3 ACs (460 -> 430 (AC) -> 380 (AC) -> 330 (AC)) in parallel - each with its own line to the outside (otherwise the temp change doesnt work quiet well), and after that 3 phase change loops brings my coolant at the end down to ~60-80°C.