Review: Profitec Pro 700 Dual Boiler PID Espresso Machine
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- čas přidán 31. 01. 2019
- Extensive in-depth review of the Profitec Pro 700 espresso machine. See line-pressure pre-infusion in action, best in-class steam pressure, learn how to control pre-infusion pressure, see internal components and more. Get a comparison to espresso machines with similar specification. Learn about water filtration for plumbed in machines and an espresso grinder with a titanium burr upgrade that pairs well with the Profitec Pro 700.
Review Videos
ECM Synchronika: • Review: ECM Synchronik...
Profitec Pro 600: • Review: Profitec Pro 6...
PID Upgrade Kits
Pro 700: www.wholelattelove.com/profit...
ECM Synchronika: www.wholelattelove.com/ecm-sy...
BWT Bestmax Premium Water Filter Package:www.wholelattelove.com/bwt-be...
Profitec Pro T64 Grinder: www.wholelattelove.com/profit...
Titanium Burr Upgrade for ECM & Profitec 64mm grinders: www.wholelattelove.com/ecm-64...
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I have the fancier bigger brother, ecm synchronika with the bwt filtreation system. The best machine everrrr
Jesus H Medrano Synchronika is the Pro 700 with next level detail. Beauty+!
Marc
Whole Latte Love i know and i lobe it! Thanx to u guys
Love this levers for the hot water and steam
... and 1 inch too tall for me.🤬
@@chadkent1158 sawzall…..???
I bought this fabulous P700 + T64 grinder start December 2018. Upgraded from Expobar office control + Rocky grinder. Your review from mid 2018 was a large part of my decision - thank you.
This is a fantastic combo and the reduction in noise has my wife much happier.
I am not able to plumb it, so still using the tank. I filter the tap water with a filtration jug.
Thoroughly recommend this combo to anyone wanting to step up their coffee creation experience, particularly if wanting to following a brew recipe.
Hi Peter, Sorry for the delayed response! Been sick the last few days. Anyway, so happy to hear you are enjoying your new machine and grinder! Thanks for sharing your experience.
Marc
I love mine! It’s a 2015, so its the older, original model without the upgraded PID (higher steam boiler pressure), new gauges/cosmetics, and sans the manual pressure profiling. I have thousands of shots, and have put less than $200 into it in 8yrs. Beautiful, high-quality, built like a tank, and great caffe! Whole Latte Love is great! Excellent sales/service/support!
Hi Kevin, Thanks for the long-term report!
Marc
Just found one of these used for $1500. Decent condition. Was going to buy a basic Rocket. But you get so much more with this I have to get it. Thanks for the review.
Hey Underdog, Wow - that's an incredibly good deal (really unheard of) on an excellent dual boiler machine! You are welcome for the review. Heads up we have tons of videos on the Pro 700 so search our YT channel for those including how tos and support. Plus check out our support library for more info including manuals, diagrams and more: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us
Marc
last week I ordered my ECM Synchronika and ECM S-Automatik 64 Burr Grinder. it will arrive in 3 days, cant wait!
Hi Nitro, Very cool! Synchronika is a beautiful machine! Please let me know what you think after you have it up and running!
Marc
Thanks for the detailed info about profitec and the like! Looking forward for more in-depth review on other machines as well! I might consider the pro 700 if I'll open a shop soon! Thanks again, sir Mark!
Hi AJ, You are welcome and thank you for the comment!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage oh it's a Marc with a c I'm sorry! Anyway, thanks again for this channel!
@@aeronj7283 No worries! C or K I do not care sounds the same!
Just purchased the pro 500 pid. Now I want this, ho hum!
Hi Matthew, Upgraditis already!
So I started off wanting the Pro 500, then the Pro 600 and now I have definitely decided on the Pro 700....well so I thought. The ECM Sychronika is now also in the mix because I like the idea of a lever for the control of the steam. However I would like to know what the pros and cons of using a lever instead of a knob. I assume that with a lever you less control over the flow of steam but it would be easier to operate. Is being able to control the flow of steam important?
Great overview
Hey Ionic, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
Mark! I ordered ceado e5p with some accessories! Im excited!!!
Rc Salazar That’s awesome! Please give me your impressions of the grinder after you use. What accessories did you get?
Marc
I got a sette 270 at first but i wasn’t satisfied at all so i got a ceado e5p i hope this will be my last grinder lol. As for the accessories i ordered ims shower screen,expobar water filter, barista pro 10g ang 15g and e61 group gaskets.
Hi, Thanks for the response! How are you liking the IMS screen and BaristaPro baskets?
Marc
Gidday Marc! Love the videos, keep em coming! Just received my pro 700, loving it so far, pulling some really epic shots. Just a quick question, was wondering if there’s any way to stiffen up the steam arm on the unit? Just feels like it moves a bit to freely when steaming milk, or maybe I’m just not steady enough with the one hand. Appreciate the time you take to answer everyone’s messages. Cheers!
Hi JP, Thanks for the kind comment and question. If you remove the nut holding on the steam arm there's a spring which provides tension on the arm. You can stretch out that spring to increase thew tension. Hope that helps!
Cheers,
Marc
Thanks Marc! Most appreciated 🤙
Purchased both Pro 700 and T64 grinder last March, and you can imagine my disappointment that the PID controller was not yet upgraded (both worked great, and was extremely happy with the plumbed-in feature). Even though I started making the best cafe lattes my spouse and I ever had, I still felt like I was missing out on the increased steam pressure, so I went out and upgraded the PID last fall, and installed it myself following the instructions on the "Whole Latte Love' video. One downside of the upgraded PID - the boilers are heated sequentially, which means it takes longer for the machine to be ready to use. The original PID had an option to have both boilers turned on simultaneously, however, it was also drawing around 2500 watts of power.
One last upgrade was a wifi smart plug I picked up from TP-link smart plug (rated ~1800W). My morning schedule has the machine turned on, warmed up and ready by the time I brush my teeth, and I can turn the Pro 700 off or on from the comfort of my phone.
Hi Sam, Thanks for the feedback. Timers, smart plugs, smart home integration are wonderful. Happy to hear you are making the best lattes ever! Do you have a favorite bean? Glad you found the upgrade install video useful!
Marc
Whole Latte Love I go with freshly roasted when I can, but always have the Lavazza Crema E Aroma beans handy.
The simultaneous boiler feature had to be turned on for my machine by myself since it wasn't set like this from the vendor. I think this features makes the Pro 700 a much better (i.e. much quicker) machine, esp. useful when you're impatient like I am. Startup is quicker and there are no more waiting times during preparing multiple espressi.
If the new PID doesn't have that feature, I wouldn't want it for free.
@@peterboil4064in the US dual heat would draw about 20A. This is not suitable for a regular outlet and must have a dedicated 20A outlet with nothing else drawing from it. It might work if done correctly, but most people will end up burning down their houses.
Hi Marc! I really have to say you are unbelievable. Your reviews are without equal. You put so much efforts in these, detailed explanations, structured compisition, every word placed well! This is really not self-evident.
And especially: you come over so sympathic, absolute charismatic and down to earth. It is so nice to watch your videos!
I have a question to you: i just bought myself a Ceado E37Z (;=), unfortunately i couldn`t buy it from you, as i live in germany) and i want to upgrade my old QuickMill machine to a matching one for the grinder. I have an eye on: Rocket R nine, ProfitecPro 700 and ECM Synchronica (pherhaps also la marzocco gs3). As i really think there is no one out there with so much experience like you: which one would you choose from theese?
I am also open for further suggestions. As i like good steam power, can you make a comparison between the power of the ProfitecPro700/Synchronika and the Rocket R nine? The RocketRNine has a very large steam boiler, even larger as the Profitec! I'm really looking forward to your answer, appreciate your opinion
and thank you very much in advance.
So nice that you are there!! Many greetings from germany!
Hi Bob, First I want to apologize for a delayed response. I saw your comment a few days ago come through on my phone while in bed sick. At the time just didn't have the energy to give you the type of response you deserve. I'm finally feeling better so let's get to it!
For steam power on the R Nine One, Pro 700/Synchronika... The Rocket does have a huge steam boiler at ~3.5L it runs at ~1.4bar, The Sync/700 have 2L boilers running at ~2bar. You will not run out of steam on any of these machines. After making this video I switched out the stock 2 hole tip on the 700 with a 4 hole tip and had even more vigorous steaming. (in retrospect should have done that for the video!). All 3 machines have excellent steaming. By switching the tips you can customize to what you like. The R Nine One may be a little "sexier" and more commercial like with it's lever controlled valve and long steam arm.
R Nine One vs. GS3 MP... Here in the US there's quite a price difference in the machines. If you're into pressure profiling, it's repeatable, programmable and record-able on the R Nine One. That's not the case on the GS3 MP. R Nine One has volumetric programming but it's universal. So you cannot save a separate volume for each of 6 saved pressure profiles. One single, one double volume amount serves all the profiles.
You asked which I would choose. Having 3 kids in college the Rocket, LM and honestly all these machines are out of my price range. I'm lucky to have them all in house. Now, I have not played around with the Rocket or the LM nearly as much as the Profitec and ECM machines but, given your grinder and the investment made there I'd be leaning towards the Rocket. IMO it's capable of more than the GS3. You will be experiencing variable overload (at least I would be!) with grinder RPM etc so the ability to repeat a profile exactly - that's a good thing!
Hope that helps - and greetings from the US!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Dear Marc, thx alot for your detailed answer although you were ill.
You do not have to apologize for anything. It is really remarkable,
that you personally answer all inquiries. And that with the many questions over all the time is not self-evident. I am not the only person in the world with a concern, so thank you very much Marc! If i would live in the US, i would have send you, as i am a pharmacist, as a sign of gratitude for your great customer-service, some suitable medication for your improvement...but 7 days of rest, enough sleep & fluid intake work too ;=)
Thank you for your consideration between the machines, especially between the GS3 and the Rocket. I don`t have any practical experience, but your opinion goes along with my theoretical thouts, that the Rocket ist more versatile. So i think it will be the Rocket. By the way, the "Vesuvius Inox" and the "Quickmill andreja premium profiles" also have a visualization for pressure profiles, but the Rocket has great features (manual paddle, a larger steam boiler, etc....).
Many greetings from germany, keep up the good work, you are unparalleled ; =)
@@a.s.5280 Hi Bob, Thanks for the kind words! Dr. thinks acute or chronic sinusitis. Script for Amoxicillin seems to be knocking it down. If that doesn't fully do the trick it's off to an ENT specialist for sinus probing etc - that sounds like fun! Working on the deep dive video on the R Nine One at the moment. It's a big project similar to the Pro 700 video with testing, under the hood look at components and I'll be doing some side by side shots using different pressure profiles. Look for that to be posted sometime next week. Thanks again for your comments! Best, Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hey Marc, if a chronic sinusitis lies ahead, it`s important to look at the physical nasal conditions, to see if there is sufficient ventilation for the nose sinuses. Curved nasal septum (septumdeviation),
too narrow sinus openings between the paranasal sinuses with the two main nasal cavities (Ostien), or nasal polyps can be the cause of the sinusitis.When i was young, i had very often a chronic sinusitis with awkward flushing.... After i had a correction of the nasal septum (no big deal ;=) i had never again similar problems. And as a good side effect
i was able to breathe better at night through the nose without breath misfires... Amoxicillin/clavulanic acid or doxycycline is the gold standard of treatment. When a chronic sinusitis is presentyou have to take Amoxi up to 6 weeks, when it`s just a chronic sinusitis the intake is about 7 days. As the pathogen is mostly streptococci/staphylococci/pneumococci rest is very important, strong physical exertion with a high heart rate can theoretically damage the heart.
I`m relly looking forward to your next video with in depth review of the R Nine One. Maybe it would be interesting (cause of the large steam boiler) how the steam-pressure can be kept, when modified with a 3/4 hole steam nozzle. Marc, get well from my side. By the way, a good boost for the immun system is supplementing zinc 10-20mg per day (for the thymus gland, useful for waeker colds) ;=)
Bob Ross thanks so much for the detailed advice. Doing the 7 day on antibiotics now. Did not know about the heart damage potential. Good thing I’m out of cycling season. I typically do 50K every other day at high intensity. Also stopped my morning workouts when this started. I really appreciate the advice. Good to meet people over coffee and trade knowledge! See what I can do to work your request into the R Nine One video. Some teasers on the machine before the vid... basically gives you LM Strada EP functionality. Also operates like Strada as far as the pump controlling pressure rather than a valve in the paddle group like in the GS3. Those GS3 valves eventually require rebuilding. Was just speaking with our service manager. He really likes the magnetic pumps. He used to service Starbucks machines in NE US. Never had to replace a magnetic pump for anything other than operator abuse. More to come in video. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!
Marc
Do you have a video about how you would set up the draining on pro700?
Great video Marc! I’m curious, do you have the SST mushroom valve available as a replacement part & will it fit an older Pro 500? I recently serviced my group head & found the existing mushroom valve to be quite pitted (most of the chrome had come off). Thanks again!
Hi Tyler, Thanks for the comment and question. I'm not certain about the stainless mushroom for the 500. Rather than me getting in the middle, I'd contact our customer service/tech support here: www.wholelattelove.com/contact-us Phones are open now or there's email and online chat available to help you out.
Marc
Hi Marc! Thanks for the great review.
A quick question: Is the Profitec Pro 700 able to do pre-infusion using just the water reservoir (without line in)?
Hi NISY, Thanks for a great question! A couple of options when working from reservoir: You can do a pre-wetting of the coffee puck by lifting the E61 lever to a position a hair before the pump kicks on. I'll link a video below which explains that. It's different than true pre-infusion in that just a little water flows to wet the puck and it's not under pressure. Another option is Profitec/ECM's new Flow Control Device which retrofits/replaces the stock mushroom valve in the E61 group. More on that including a video here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-e61-flow-control-device With the FCD you can continuously adjust the flow rate/pressure during an extraction so you can do low flow/pressure pre-infusion and then ramp up to whatever flow rate you like. Here's the link to the pre-infusion/pre-wetting video: czcams.com/video/2DPcZD48TxM/video.html
Marc
Wish the Pro 800 gets a makeover with the new knobs and pressure gadges!
Great video, Marc.
I'm curious, at this level (700 and the Synchronika), are these a viable alternative to a "commercial grade machine" if you're looking at a small complimentary cafe (passive sales mainly to office building users) that's likely to only produce 20 to 100 shots/day?
Hi y, Thanks for the comment and question. Neither is NSF rated for commercial use. Doesn't mean they wouldn't meet standards, It's likely ECM/Profitec did not pursue getting NSF certification as they also make full commercial equipment and consider these machines as part of their domestic line. If looking for a lower cost commercial machine check out the Gaggia TS: www.wholelattelove.com/gaggia-ts-espresso-machine
Marc
Great review! I have a question as o like the angled portafilter from ECM Synchronica would the ECM portafilter fit in the Profitec 700 machine?
Hey David, Yes it will. ECM and Profitec portafilters in their E61 group machines are interchangeable.
Marc
Another great review! I am currently looking for a top-of-the-line prosumer machine with flow control. Would you recommend this machine? Or should I go with the ECM Synchronika? Currently leaning towards the Synchronika but I'd like your opinion.
Hi C, Thanks for the comment and question. The ECM Synchronika and Profitec Pro 700 are essentially identical internally with same specs as far as boiler sizes, max steam pressure etc. In fact, both machines are hand assembled in the same facility near Milan, Italy. Both use the same pumps and internal plumbing plus features like stainless steel mushroom valves. The differences are on the outside.
Synchronika: angled portafilters, lever operated valves, more refined case edge work/finishing, chromed ends on levers/PF/group lever, tapered E61 group head, one piece frame base allows for opening machine in ~1 minute.
Pro 700: straight PFs, knob operated low ear sprung valves, excellent casework.
Both machines are equal in capabilities. It comes down to which you prefer the look of. Hope that helps!
Marc
I've been looking into building a passive house, i'm curious if you've done a power usage test with this new version yet and what your results were?
Hailex Hi, Thanks for the question. No power test yet - I’ll try and putt the watt meter on it Monday morning. A couple things that will help... the Eco function which shuts down the boilers after a period of no use and you can turn of the steam boiler with the switch behind the drip tray.
Marc
Your videos are great. Please test the Izzo Alex Duetto EVO.
Hi VF90, Thanks for the comment and request! I'll see what I can do. Next on the list is the Rocket R Nine One. Very cool saturated group pressure profiling machine.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for the Answer! Greetings from Germany
Question regarding heat timing for the boiler. I'm back and forth between this 700 & the 800 Lever machine. I'm starting a mobile coffee business in Vegas and expect to attend venues that may require 15+ drinks pulled in a row. From what it sounds like, the prosumer 700 may heat quicker than the commercial 800 Lever. What are your thoughts? I'm not opposed to other machines but am hunting around the $2k-$3k budget. Always a pleasure watching the detail you have in these videos, thanks Marc!
Hi FF, Thanks for the comment and question. For those purposes I'd lean to the 700. But, neither are truly commercial machines intended for that level of usage. At that budget the only commercial machine I can recommend is the Gaggia TS: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-ts-espresso-machine
Marc
After cleaning the steamer I noticed some mould in the silicon tube and removed the tube. I then bought a new silicon tube, but can't get it to hold in the wand since it's too soft (though it's food grade silicon for high temperatures). Are there special silicon tubes for this machine that have a reasonable price or am I doing something wrong? The manual doesn't really address replacing the silicon tube and the vendor I bought the machine from doesn't sell parts (I'm based in Germany by the way).
I've been using the steamer without the silicon tube ever since, which also works but I now fear that I will get mould inside the metal tube instead, which probably is even less easy to clean and even more so less visible.
Any Ideas?
Hi Peter, Greetings from the US! In your case, I would bypass your local vendor and go straight to Profitec in Germany for advice/parts.
Marc
Hi Marc, I had my heart set on this machine but then saw the Synchronika. Now I like both machines. What I'm truly wondering is whether I want the gauges up high or down low. Do you find that it matters? Is one better than the other?
Hi JS, Thanks for the question. First, know the Pro 700 and Synchronika are nearly identical internally. They are made in the same production facility in Milan, Italy. Honestly I rarely look at gauges. You might consider other differences like the lever control of steam/hot water on the Synchronika vs. knobs on the 700. Also, Synchronika has a higher level of finishing detail and angled portafilter - I like those! Hope that helps!
Marc
Marc, any chance of a video showing the difference internally between a standard mushroom and the Profitec version? Also, is there any functional benefit or are both styles essentially the same?
Hi GS, Profitec has gone to using stainless steel for mushroom valves. Others may be chrome plated which tend to flake/pit or ceramic which is a more brittle material. Not a common problem but ceramic can crack/break due to its brittle nature.
Marc
Hey marc great video thank you. Quick question about the SYNCHRONIKA. Just wondering if it too has been updated or if they are still using the same model since its release as I am weighing up options on the ecm and pro 700. Thanks mate
Hi AD, Thanks for the comment and question. So you know, the Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika are essentially the same machine internally. Main differences are the chassis, valves and casework details. Hydraulically they are Identical. No upgrades to either since this video was made. Both feature best in class steam power at up to ~2 bar as well as extended functions through the PID controller for auto-off timer and maintenance reminders.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you mate you're a gentleman. P.s. your videos are always my go to when I need clarification !!!😀
how often do i need to maintain/service it if I do 5 cups a day?
Hi Marc,
If my smaller machine does not have the pre- infusion feature, what do you suggest to compensate for a better extraction in means of flavor?
(Non pressurized 51mm basket, no manometer, no thermometer)
Hi neville, Thanks for the question. Some coffees do benefit from pre-infusion in flavor. This is particularly true of single origin fresh coffees with a lighter roast profile. Additionally, pre-infusion swells the coffee helping to control channeling. If a machine does not have pre-infusion capabilities you could try running the pump for a few seconds, then stop it and wait 5-10 seconds before turning the pump back on and proceeding normally. This will pre-wet the coffee puck and may give some benefit in reducing channeling. But, I'll be honest it's not something I've tried - just an idea.
Marc
Thanks you for the in depth review.
I have two questions:
1- Are there any operational or functional differences between the Profitec 700 and the ECM Synchronika?
2- Can distilled water be used to control descaling?
HI Eric, Thanks for the question. 1. The internal components of the Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika are identical with the exception of the steam and hot water valves. Turning knobs on the Pro 700 and levers on the Synchronika. Also difference in case design. The Synchronika's base frame is one continuous piece with no welds or fasteners. With that design, it's the easiest to open machine of its type.
2. We do not recommend using distilled or pure Reverse osmosis water in espresso machines. A couple of reasons for that. First, ultra pure water over-extracts coffee leading to bad flavor. Second, ultra-pure water can cause corrosion of metals. One reason you will never see ultra pure water transported or stored in metals. FYI, corrosion is kind of the opposite of scale.
For no worries water that doesn't cause scale and supports good flavor we recommend plumbing machines with A BWT Bestmax Premium filter. It does typical particle and activated carbon filtration but its real trick is a patented system which removes some calcium and replaces it with magnesium. Use this filter properly and you will never have to descale: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package-w-besthead-flex
Marc
Whole Latte Love thank you for answering so quickly.
I heard somewhere that some of the Rocket espresso machines had a way of sensing the water hardness, and if this is too low, then the machines will not work, and I had wondered if the ECM and Profitec machines did the same.
Regarding the water hardness I watched the brew video with Baking Soda and Epsom salt, and I liked your approach for using these together. With distilled water.
I have a water distiller at home, and the ‘brew’ seems like a natural progression for me.
Hi Erik, You are welcome! Some Rocket machines do use electrical conductivity to sense water level. So you are right. The water sensor may not work properly if reservoir is filled with zero TDS water. Water without minerals is a poor conductor. Again, we strongly recommend against using pure distilled or RO water in espresso machines. Doing so can cause corrosion. But some do insist. A pinch of salt in the reservoir is enough to get the water conductivity sensor operating.
Marc
Hi Marc,
I very much appreciate the comments.
I watched again the video, and I noticed that inside the steam wand there is a plastic tubing.
Is there any chance to change this for a double wall metal wand?
Wow, the machine i’m buying and the glass cup I had on my wishlist, I guess I know what’s up :P
Hailex Hi, you will not be disappointed with the 700! Just curious if you had considered the ECM Synchronika. If so, why did you go with the 700?
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I did consider it, but in the end I chose not to go with the Synchronika because I love the look of the industrial style knobs more than the pull-down levers, the reservoir is also a very attractive feature, and now the black dials are a plus as well. Both machines are close enough mechanically that I felt the decision came down to aesthetics. A few things I did like more about the Synchronika was that it had the slightly black tinted PID controller screen, and the black coated frame.
Hailex thanks for the feedback!
Hi, quick question; can the Pro700 V2 water and steam handles be fitted to the V1? Is the larger cap just a cosmetic change or is the thread/actuation different?
Your videos are probably the best available; wish you guys were Europe-based!
Hey AB, Thanks for your patience for this answer. The valves have not changed so yes it's just cosmetic.
Marc
I’m certainly thinking this will be my next machine, possibly last.
Does it include a plastic tamper or a metal one? I know it’s becoming a bit more popular to include a nicer tamper. The picture on the site includes a plastic but I don’t know if it’s outdated or not. If it’s plastic, I would most likely get the Tamping Tom.
Hi DD, The Pro 700 comes with the unfortunate plastic tamper included with most every semi-auto machine. But, if it's going to be you last machine you might consider stepping up to the ECM Synchronika. It's essentially the same as the Pro 700 internally, with same specs and it does include a very nice heavy weight metal tamper! Same machine as the P700 but with next level finishing of casework and added design touches. Also the easiest prosumer level machine to open up (if you're into that) of any available prosumer level machine. Nice joystick valves instead of knobs, tapered E61 group... : www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control
Marc
Whole Latte Love Unfortunately that’s out of my budget but thanks!
Can it be used in a small cafe that pulls probably 20-40 shots per day?
I am struggling with which way to go. I want to upgrade from a Rancilio Silvia and a Rocky doserless grinder. Biggest complaints with Silvia is shot consistency and delay between shot and steamed milk. My issues with the Rocky are lack of finer adjustments for grind size, clumping and also retention.
I mostly do milk based drinks with my espresso. Typically 6 to 7 ounces of milk.
My current plan was to go with the Pro 700 and a Eureka Mignon Specialita. This I feel would be the ultimate setup with all wants met. Great espresso, pre-infusion, dual steam boilers with PIDs plus ability to plumb.
If I wanted to save money would the Pro 300 and Specialita be a good alternative? I don't want to compromise getting a good shot of espresso or the ability to steam milk simultaneously. I would like to be able to get good milk foam for latte art too. I realize with this setup that I would be giving up the ability to plumb and a 2 bar steam pressure. My Silvia has a PID and does pre-infusion (or a form of it), not sure what the 300 does.
Thoughts?
Hi v, Sorry for the delayed response. Down for the count sick for a couple days.
Pro 700 is a huge upgrade from the Silvia! You will love the steam pressure, rock solid brew temps, simultaneous brew and steam, plumbed machine, true pre-infusion and it's just a gorgeous machine! The Pro 300 or 600 are alternatives but as you mention you give up the plumbing, pre-infusion and rotary pumps. 300 operates at lower steam pressure. 600 has the 2 bar pressure. The Specialita is a nice grinder but if going to this level I'd go with at least 64mm burrs.
Do not get the minion. spend the extra money on the zenith. I got the pro 700 with T64 and I regret so deeply getting the t64. I know it matches, but want the Zenith or Rocket Fausto should have been my decision, but I cheeped out in the moment.. Mingon is what 53mm burr. Rocket Fausto is super sharp, a few hundred more 65mm burrs you never have to adjust to clean. still angry at myself for choosing t64 ... By the way, if money is issue, you won't be disappointed on 300, but don't cheap out on grinder.. just my opinion
Hi whole latte love, Just a quick question. Does the Profitec pro 700 V2 come in white colour pressure display instead of black?
Hi Ken, Thanks for the question. No white gauges available on the Pro 700. But, the ECM Synchronika which is essentially the same machine does come with white gauges and higher level of finishing detail. Pro 700 and Synchronika are made in the same production facility in Milan. Italy. ECM and Profitec are sister companies. Kinda like Lexus/Toyota. Check it out here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control
Marc
Ok now I think I want the pro 700 or the Synchronika
Hi Mark, Thanks for the comment. The Synchronika and Pro 700 are excellent machines and essentially identical under the hood. Difference is in exterior finish with the Synchronika being the more refined of the two. Synchronika comes with angled portafilters, E61 group with subtle taper, lever operated valves, matching chrome tipped elements, gauges up high and PID display silvered to blend with the case.
Marc
i got a problem with my ecm synchronica that moisture has started to leak in to my pressure gauge. Not sure what to do about it. Im not sure where to ask so i thought id try here. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Ok so i opened up my machine and it turns out the platstic T connection for the rubber tubing and dried and cracked :(:(
Hi schh, If in the US you can contact us for parts here if needed: www.wholelattelove.com/contact-us
Marc, talk about timing on this video... i was just looking at the pro 600 and started to look at 700. I know you had mentioned the scace readings for the 600 were good, what about the 700? I am looking for consistency of temperature during the shot! I won't be able to plumb the machines but i am happy to jump to 700 if it's worth in its features. I know the 600 has a smaller steam boiler than this and i think this one consumes more power - but my main concern is shot temperature consistency. I am assuming no HX hump as its a DB, so temperature would be better than the 500. Preinfusion i am assuming on this is same as 500 half a lever pull and you get water from the e61 only?
Hi B, Thanks for the questions. I've Scace tested the 700 in the past and it's very accurate and consistent. The 700 has the same brew boiler and brew circuit as the 600. Only difference brewing between the two is vibration pump on 600 and rotary on the 700. Got to say temps on the 500 are consistent and accurate as well. I've been amazed at the recent crop of HX machines with PID like the 500, Rocket Evo R's and Type V's. Thermosiphon systems are well engineered and they all are very temp accurate and consistent. Not like older HX machines with pressurestats. Unplumbed pre-infusion is the same with just dropping some water on the puck with maybe a slight push from boiler pressure but that fades quickly. I'd call that pre-wetting. Some thoughts on brew temperature... I'm guessing a lot of home users with pressurestat HX machines never flush prior to an extraction. They load and brew and in many cases dump boiling water on the coffee and are none the wiser. Even with a Scace temperature is incredibly difficult to measure. That's why my standard for PID machines is taking a reading when about 45ml of brew water have gone through. So many variables to consider like ambient temp, was the Scace preheated on the machine, heat absorption by the device, time delay in reading, etc. What I think is most important is consistency. If my PID is set at 200F to I get 200F every time at my measure point? If I change the PID set to 197 do I get 197 every time. It's tough! How long do I wait for everything to equalize when I make a big change in the PID set? Actual brew temp might be a little overrated. I challenge anyone to pick up on a 1 degree change in brew temp in blind tasting over a series of shots. What's important to me is knowing brew temp is consistent. Like I've been brewing a darker roast at a setting of 198. Then switch to a lighter roasted coffee and I change brew temp to 203. I just want to know I'm actually getting a higher brew temp and it will be consistent. I've been working recently with a saturated group Rocket R Nine One - video coming soon! Very cool machine with programmable pressure profiling, savable manual profile, hot water mixing and more.
@@Wholelattelovepage Marc thanks for the comments! One more question on these dual boiler machines what is the recovery, i.e. how long after a shot pull i can pull another shot with consistent temperature. I know on the older pro 500 it was around 5mins if you wanted to get consistent temperature, even with the pro500 pid i have read people usually wait 5+ mins for the second shot to fall into the same temperature ball park.
Seems like the pro600 might be a better buy if one does not need to froth huge amounts of milk!
I do think many of us get suckered into the world of quantifying the temperature variable - but after being a seasoned hx user i think i rely on taste more than temperature.
My goal on a db machine would be to have consistent temperature and also reducing time between recovery of the shot. My first shot i always do a flush to evacuate any super heated water and i am assuming it is the case with DB as well, as water via thermosyphon process will get hotter than we want for the coffee.
Hi Marc, I have a new 2020 Synchronika with the 2bar but often during steaming the milk the steam boiler decides to refill killing the frothing power as boiler pressure drops from nearly 2bar to 1bar.
I have a work around of draining some hot water off prior to frothing which tops up the steam boiler but it’s not ideal.
Could the water level in the steam boiler need adjustment by raising or lowering the probe? I don’t seem to be the only one having this issue. Thanks
Hi William, Hmm... Boiler filling during steaming can happen but not on a regular basis - more of a random thing that water level in boiler just ends up near where probe senses it's time to refill when you happen to be steaming. You could check the fill level probe and make sure it's fully inserted. Could also pull the probe and check for scale deposits. I think it's unlikely but it could cause sensor issue.
Marc
Hi, Marc. Thanks for the detailed review from which I have learned a lot. I am curious about one thing concerning the Profitec pro 700. According to the specs on your website, the machine uses 110V (USA) power supply (which is 110V and 60Hz), without mentioning the cycles it is designed for. Do you have any information as to how many electric cycles it is intended for? Is it 110 V 50Hz only or both 50 and 60Hz? If I use it in an environment of 100V 50Hz, for instance, in Jamaica where it has 110V 50Hz power supply, will it work correctly?
Hi James, you are welcome! It should work fine on 50Hz. Power stickers on all the Profitec machines (ECM as well) we stock list frequency as: 50/60Hz.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage That is very useful information. Many thanks indeed!
Been playing with my machine for the last 2 weeks, great machine but I hate that flow control valve take about 2 full turns from close to open position, wish if it was only like a half turn from fully open to fully close, it would much easy to control.
Hi C&b, Thanks for the comment! So much turning :) IMO more turns gives one finer control of flow/pressure. An analogy with 2 grinders... one goes from espresso fine to cold brew coarse with a 180 degree turn of an adjustment collar. Another takes multiple 360 degree turns for the same grind size adjustment. The latter has far more precise control of grind size. Have you gone through calibration of FCD? Measure flow rates at each quarter turn of the valve. Run pump without PF in place for 20 seconds, weigh water output in grams and divide by 20 for grams per second of flow. If no scale measure volume with 1ml = 1g. Repeat test at each quarter turn more. I'll also note that running with FCD wide open gives a higher flow rate than stock mushroom valve by ~2-3g/s.
When I use FCD for extended low flow pre-infusions followed by lower flow main extraction I'm moving knob maybe a quarter turn between flow rates. I use that type of extraction when working with fresh, lighter roast high-altitude single origin coffees. You can see that in this video where I pull a fresh from roast Yirgacheffe bottomless triple to a 1:2 ratio and log the shot using Acaia scale and Brewmaster app: czcams.com/video/HTaly8c-i_U/video.html
Marc
I'm so torn between this and the 600. I don't think I'll be able to get this plumbed in my current kitchen. So with plumbing out of the picture, would the Pro 700 still make sense to get over the 600? :o
Hi T, Do you think you might be able plumb it someday? Remember, treat it well and it'll go for decades. The 600's vib pump is really quiet. But, the rotary pump in the 700 purrs!
Marc
I was torn between the 2 and then I saw them in person. Just hated the look of the 600. It was surprisingly squre. 600 was sitting beside the QM vetrano and almost bought that one on the spot. But I got 700 even over synchronic, because 700 is 2019 version. Snchro was only $100 more for me. I've had to wait 4 weeks to get it and could change my mind the entire 4 weeks. I still think 700 is smart move. It the endgame
How does the bezzera matrix DE compare to the profitec700 or ECM Synchronika?
Hi ws, Thanks for the question. Here's a link to a side by side spec comparison: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=MTU0NjAwMzk3MjE1NSwyMTY3NjI4NDMxNDE0
Notable differences: Synchronika (Pro 700 is nearly identical internally to the Synchronika) is available from us with Flow Control on the E61. Synchronika has larger stainless steel boilers. The DE uses copper boilers. Synchronika/700 can do true line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed to waterline. Hope that helps!
Marc
Hi people @WLL! Thanks for all the reviews and info. How long will it take a pro 700 to warmup to a first coffee. A total warmup takes 30 min i read somewhere. But within how many minutes a first extraction is possible. Greatings from the Neatherlands!
Hi ovdt, Thanks for the question. For rock solid temps 30 minutes is a good time. Takes awhile for the thermosiphon to fully heat the mass of E61 group. You can help things along by running some blank shots after the brew boiler as warmed up after 10-15 minutes. As the Pro 700 has a mechanical power switch it is possible to control using a timer/smart plug and have the machine turn on by itself.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks so much for this answer! The brand new 700 is in my kitchen now so i'm gonna try this one! Greetings. Otto
Hey guys quick question please,
Is it true that the new profitec pro700 steam and hot water knobs comes in joystick edition like the ECM as im planning to buy one and the dealer said that it sounded fishy to me as i never saw a pro700 with joystick handles.
Hi FB, I have never seen a Pro 700 come stock with lever handles and know of no plans to do so. But if you're into DIY mods the ECM Synchronika lever valves will mount to a Pro 700. In case you did not know already the ECM Synchronika and Profitec Pro 700 are essentially identical internally. Same specs, boiler etc. They are made in the same factory in Germany. So if you want the lever valves it's likely more cost effective to just get the Synchronika. You'll alos get a higher level of finishing detail and angled portafilters.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage
Hello guys first of all thank you so much for your reply.
Second i have received my profitec pro 700 with lever.
I live in Dubai UAE, apparently the whole profitec 700 stock here came with lever maybe special request or something if your interested i can share some photos for your reference.
One last question do you do international deliveries i mean to Dubai?
@@ferasbourgi9851 You are welcome. Manufacturers often do special request versions of machines for various retailers. I know it's something we ask of them all the time. At this point we're USA/Canada only. But someday - I do correspond with a lot of espresso lovers in your part of the world. Always wonderful interactions!!!
Marc
Pro 700 is awesome. I love it. But steam pressure defaults to 1.5 bars. How can you switch it to 2 bars of pressure?
Hi DW, Thanks for the question. How old is your Pro 700? 700's with higher steaming pressure started shipping in April of 2018. If your machine is older than that ~1.5 is the max unless you install the PID upgrade: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-700-pid-upgrade-kit
If your machine shipped May 2018 or after from Whole Latte Love (can't speak for other retailers on upgrade dates) then it is capable of 2 bar steam pressure. To get it, you need to adjust the steam boiler temp to max setting of 270F. To do that press the plus and minus button on the display simultaneously. Then quickly press the minus button until "T2" is displayed. While "T2" is displayed press the plus button to adjust the temperature of the steam boiler up to 270F. At that temp boiler pressure will be ~2bar. Hope that helps!
Marc
Hi any idea if I can plumb the Pro 700 to a 8L water bottle which does not provide pressurized water supply? Thanks!
Ng Kai Yuan Hi NKY, yes you can. Rotary pumps have enough suction power to do that. We do it all the time. You may need a prime with water from reservoir prior to switching to the plumb line.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I'm assuming you attach some plastic tubing to the end of the braided line to accomplish this? Just curious what kind of type/size of connector might work for that. Contemplating "plumbing" to a water container of some type external to the machine to solve the minor headache of refilling under a cabinet.
Nice presentation, thanks. But it really is difficult understanding the difference between ECM and Profitec when you say they are almost identical inside.
Hi SE, Thanks for the kind comment. The ECM Synchronika and Pro 700 are essentially identical inside. The difference is in the external casework and finishing details.
Marc
Hi, where can i adjust the pressure (pump to e.g 10 bar). Is there a screw? Thanks
Hi m, Thanks for the question. Here's my video showing how to adjust brew pressure on the Pro 700: czcams.com/video/HWZpLC7K8aA/video.html
Hope that helps!
Marc
Hi guys I'm considering the bezzera matrix MN would you say it is on par with this or the syncrohnica? Thank you
Hey glen, Thanks for the question. Capabilities are similar but the Matrix is a more "techy" machine IMO with the color touchscreen controller. The Synchronika has more available steaming power running at near 2 bar pressure in the service boiler. It's also a much simpler machine under the hood and a lot easier to get inside. Both machine can do real pre-infusion from line pressure. Synchronika is available with flow control of the E61 group: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc that ECM with flow is really cool...I've seen a video where you can get an upgrade kit for the matrix to add flow control at the group head which is interesting but not seem many reviews on it.its called the Bianca kit add on
If i could only choose one, should i go for Pro 700 or 800? Please advise.
Hi Ahmad, Really depends on you as they are very different machines. As it's a manual lever, the Pro 800 is more work! But, it's a more "pure" espresso making experience. You actually pull the shot! Many describe lever shots as more syrupy and sweeter. On the Pro 700 you have much easier control of Brew temps can change brew temp independently from steam temp.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage really appreciate it. Thanks, Marc. Love from Malaysia.
I recieved my profitec 700 with a joy stick just like the ecm instead of a knob. please help
Hi M, Really? I don't think that's possible. Valves are completely different and one can't just put a joystick on the Pro 700's valve assembly. I guess strange things have happened but just can't see how that is possible. If something really strange did happen and you purchased the machine from us contact our customer service dept here and have a photo of the problem ready to send: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us
Since no drain pipe is included with ECM Synchronica, what is the size of the pipe one needs to buy for the drain?
Hi James, Thanks for the question. The outlet is 14mm connection.
From the Synchronika manual:
Connect a suitable hose (not included with delivery) to the drainage container (connection Ø 14 mm) and to an already installed drainage syphon. Slightly incline the hose so that the residual water can drain completely.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks, Marc. It working well now with the help of WLL costomer service suggested size of line.
@12:33 what's the white device on the right of the pump motor?
Capacitor
what does this one have over the pro 600?
Hi Jason, Thanks for the question. The Pro 700 has larger boilers, rotary pump and can be plumbed direct to waterline. Beyond that, here's a side by side comparison of technical specs for the machines: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=NDI5NDMwOTM0NzM4MiwyMDM4MTQ2NzI3OTkw
Hop that helps!
Marc
Hi Marc, was thinking if you could refer me to a video about descaling the profitec pro 700? Im thinking of getting this machine and i just want to make sure that i will be able to conduct any maintenance easily by myself at home.
I would also like to check with you if its best to leave the machine on 24/7 or otherwise.
My local online store does not sell the BWT bestmax. They only sell the BWT AQA Drink Pure Set and the BWT Protect MP200 Set. Would like to seek your kind opinion on this 2 filters from BWT. Thank you very much! 😊
Hi JT, Thanks for the question. As to leaving the machine on 24/7. I've spoken with Michael Hauck who is CEO of Profitec about that. He says he leaves his machine on 24/7 so it's always ready go. But also said it's fine to turn on/off daily. The Pro 700 does have a settable standby time for auto off. We do not have a video for descaling dual boiler machines. Manufacturers all say dual boiler machine should be descaled by machine techs. It can be done by savvy home users with the right skills but there's risk of issues when neglected dual boiler machines are descaled by non-professionals. Best course of action for most is to provide machine with a water quality that will not cause scale in the first place. I believe the Aqua Drink Pure uses the same filtering technology as the Bestmax Premium and is just set up for tap output rather than inline to a plumbed machine. It should protect your machine from limescale yet proper mineral level via magnesium to support flavor and prevent over-extraction. Another option is the BWT Penguin pitcher if available in your area. That's what I use for reservoir fed machines: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank u so much for the help. You have really helped me made my mind up on what to get. Thanks Marc! hope all is well in ur area. God bless.
Nothing beats a slayer
It better not beat it... it is a third of the price... you are comparing apples and potatoes my man...
And when that Slayer needs service...
Well I guess a better comparison would be up against a Vesuvius. Love to see a video comparison between these two
Wonder if they will upgrade anything on the 800
Hi Jay, What kind of upgrades would you like to see?
Marc
mainly aesthetics. update them to the new styling of the 700 on the valves. maybe a nicer lever handle and angled portafilter. more discrete badge ?
So the steam tip reduce from 4 to 2 holes? Why?
omg, Good question! Not sure, but I'll ask. We do have 4 hole tips available for the Pro 700.
Marc
The Pro 700 is a great machine but another major determining factor in deciding on a machine is parts availability. In New Zealand there is only one supplier and he refuses to sell parts to individuals -also Profitec do not allow international shipping of there products effectively tying up supply check availability before you buy otherwise you may be screwed...
Hey Nick, Thanks for the comment on the Pro 700 - it is a great machine. Sorry parts are an issue in NZ - that's strange! Not the case for our customers in US and Canada.
Marc
Hey Marc, I have been watching a lot of videos lately and I am looking to get an espresso machine that I can take to the farmers markets and brew some of my fresh roasted coffee. What machine do you recommend for something that I could pump out a good number of shots and grow with a bit? I have been looking at the Rocket Espresso Giotto Evoluzione V2 and a few other rockets.Thanks for all the info!
Hi Parker, A couple of thoughts. I'd go with a rotary pump machine like the Rocket EVO Rs or Profitec Pro 700. With Rotary pump you can drop the plumb line into a 5 gallon water source so you don't have to fill the reservoir all the time. Vibration pumps generally don't have plumb lines - also less robust than rotary. If you will be cranking out shots (will you be doing milk drinks?) bigger brew boiler is better for temp stability. Long term I think Profitec and ECM machines get an edge in reliability while Rockets get the edge in "sexiness". If you want built like a tank and value have a look at Brewtus Expobar. There's a rotary pump plumbable version of the machine and you won't care so much about scratching it up with all the moving around. Hope that helps - let me know if you have any more questions.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks again! I do enjoy the ExpoBar. Yes I will be making milk drinks and getting into the industry that way. Do you guys do any kind of Military discount? I will be ordering mine this week!
How do you descale this Profitec Pro 700 machine?
Hi Wilson, Thanks for the question. Manufacturers generally recommend dual boiler machines be descaled by a professional machine technician. A couple of reasons why: If a machine has been neglected and has moderate internal scaling when it does get descaled chunks of scale may get dislodged and plug other internal components like solenoid valves, gauges, flow restrictors, etc. Also, it's difficult to fully drain the boilers. At our service center boilers are removed for descaling for this type of machine. Tearing down a dual boiler machine for descaling is beyond the technical capabilities of most home users. What we recommend is using water high quality water filtration. If used properly it stops scale from forming in the first place so descaling will never be needed. We recommend BWT products. I use the Bestmax Premium system for my plumbed in Pro 700 in the studio: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package-w-besthead-flex
Marc
Thanks for replying. But I'm in Malaysia, I don't know if that filter is available.
Also, how do I know when and if I need to descale?
😍😍😍
The frame is not stainless?
Hi PE, That is correct.
Marc
Hi Mark, the question that I always forget to ask you is how to get that chocolate coffee. It looks 😋. Wonderful video. Keep it up
Hi Saad, Do you mean the chocolate flavor or chocolate color. I'm guessing you are referring to the thick dark crema? If so, that comes from using a good coffee and getting the grind size just right.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage the chocolate color please. Right now I use the Starbucks Guatemala Antigua cocoa and subtle spice medium roast whole bean 100%Arabica coffee.
Okay, for the deep color (and flavor!) it's as mentioned about getting the grind size just right. Also need a coffee that's capable. I have not had that Starbucks coffee so I do not know if it has the capability to produce what you are looking for. You might try a Monsooned Malabar like this one: www.wholelattelove.com/products/whole-latte-love-malabar-gold-espresso check out the customer reviews via the link. Sounds like it's exactly what you are looking for! I'll mention it's difficult to get deep rich golden brown goopy color from most 100% Arabica coffees. Bean blends containing some Robusta coffee will help. There's a perception the best coffee is always 100% Arabica this created by decades of marketing. I'm here to say that depending on your flavor/appearance preferences blends containing a bit of Robusta can be fantastic! It's common in many Italian style bean blends. One of my favorites is Maromas Orphea. It's easy to work with and has the qualities you are looking for. Check out the customer reviews on that coffee here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepagevery very clear, thanks a lot for your answer. I will take a look at the links 👍👍👍
he spills the coffee at 5:19
Lol
After a year of testing (and 2 machines) you'll be lucky to get 1.25 consistent steam pressure. It heats up to just under 2.0 bar. The second you turn on the steam wand, the pressure drops to 1.5 After about 5 seconds of steaming, that pressure drops to 1.25 and continues to drop to 1.0 once I am done steaming milk 10-15 seconds. The PID is set to the max of 274 degrees for the steam boiler. While I love this machine, I am disappointed in the marketed steam pressure promises. So just FYI that the you will not get 2.0 bar steaming pressure when actually steaming milk. Lucky if you get 1.25 to 1.5 consistently. Bank on getting around 1.25 to 1
Forgot to mention: Plumbed machine, 110v outlet.
What I haven't tested is if I switch to the reservoir to see how that affects the steam pressure when steaming milk. More to come.....
Hi TK9S, Thanks for the report. Pressure dropping when steaming like that is perfectly normal. I know of no home domestic machines which maintain starting steam pressure when steaming and I've worked with and tested most of the machine makes/models available in the US over the past decade. If you like high (starting) steam pressure the Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika are best in class in that department.
FYI switching to reservoir will make no difference on steam pressure
Marc
Vs Slayer or La marzocco?
Hi Alex, Slayer and La Marzocco run 2.5 to 4x the price of the Pro 700. So not truly comparable. Those machines are pre-infusion and pressure/flow control specialists. The Pro 700 can do line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed and pressure is adjustable via external pressure regulator on the plumbed line as discussed in the video. Personally, I'd be more apt to do a comparison of a machine like the Rocket R Nine One to the LM GS3 MP. I got in to that a little during the review of Rocket's new pressure profiling machine: czcams.com/video/31GFyA-DXXg/video.html
Marc
I just got the pro 700 (been using it for 4 days) and I never get 2 bar on the steam pressure. It gets to maybe 1.9, but lingers around 1.7 to 1.8 Steam temp is set to 270. The PID will show steam temp get up to 272-274, but it never reaches 1.9 Bar. Even with a temp of 274, it gets to 1.8
When I use steam only, it stays steady around 1.5. But to recover, it takes at least 60 seconds to get back to 1.7 to 1.8-.9 but goes back to 1.8 That’s a far cry from the 6 seconds that is touted on the video (or 16 seconds to get back to 2.0 bar when it goes down to 1.5 bar as on the video) Mine never gets to 2.0
And forget about pulling a shot at the same time. The steam pressure drops well below 1.5 bar to about 1.2-1.3 Brew temp them drops to about 160-170 (and steam temp drops to about 240) Recovery for brew temp seems ok, maybe 30 seconds. But steam just takes it’s time and gets back to about 1.7 in about 45-60 seconds.
It's plumbed using BWT BestMax. pressure regulator is set to 2bar for line pressure
With tech support, I did a factory reset. That didn't do anything.
No leaks anywhere.
Not sure what else to do
Hi K9, I'm reading through and not sure I follow. You should be able to set temp for steam higher than 270 which will get you closer to 2 bar steam pressure. Guess I'm most confused where you say it gets to maybe 1.9 and in the next sentence you say it never reaches 1.9.
Steam boiler recovery time is based on steaming a standard amount of milk. If you've had steam running for a long time recovery times will be longer.
Pulling a shot should not impact steam pressure at all. Steam and brew water are generated in separate boilers so there's no way pulling a shot could change your steam pressure.
If you continue to have issues I would contact tech support for further assistance.
@@Wholelattelovepage Sorry, I guess I was kind of all over the place :) I was waiting for my replacement machine to arrive.
On the PID, I can set steam temp to 270. That's as high as I can go (which I think is the way it was designed?) The actual temp on the steam does go above 270. 274 is as high as I’ve seen it go (but pressure never reaches 2.0, it’s 1.9). It fluctuates between 270-274 but usually stays around 270-272 (peaking at 240 every so often)
So my pressure stays around 1.8-1.9 depending on steam temp (I know that’s knit picking but it’s doesn’t stay at a consistent 2.0-never reaches 2.0) I guess I’ve surrendered to the fact it won’t hit 2bar. Will I still have good steam pressure? Sure. I am just a technical guy (I think in terms of zeros and ones) :-) When I see your video promoting the machine and it’s 2.0 bar, I would expect that’s what I should get.
The other big issue is that the second you turn on the steam knob, pressure immediately drops to 1.5 It definitely doesn’t act like your video where it’ll gradually go down as you are frothing. Recovery slowly goes up to 1.7, hangs out there, goes up to 1.8 then reaches 1.9 then bounces back and forth from 1.8-1.9 (but never in 16 seconds, probably about 30-45) Now, when you open the steam knob and pressure drops to 1.5 immediately, it’ll stay at 1.5 as you froth your milk. I haven’t done the wide open test yet of keeping it open for 60 seconds. Once I saw it drop to 1.5 as soon as you open the steam knob, I stopped testing.
People have told me it’s because I have a US model and it’s running 110v vs 220v. It is on a 15a breaker (and outlet) Just not sure I buy that argument, especially since your videos I am assuming are 110v.
So I guess I am just saying, it never reaches 2.0 bar (even at 274 degrees) and pressure drops to 1.5 the second it starts steaming. (even on my 2nd machine)
Still love you guys !! :)
@@TheK9Shepherd I just bought a Profitec Pro 700 (with the flow control valve) in December 2021. The steam pressure gauge was dead on arrival. WLL sent me new gauge which I installed today. When the steam temp was set at 269 'F in the PID, the pressure was equalized at around 1.6 bar. After I set it to the max possible temp of 270'F in the PID, the steam temperature rides between 271--274 with a matching pressure of 1.8-1.95 bar, sometimes barely touching 2.0 bar for a moment when it's showing 274'F. However, like your machine, mine also drops down to 1.5 bar as soon as I open the steam valve. I let it run close to a minute and it slightly increased to 1.6 bar after 30-40 secs when the PID kicked in to raise the temperature which had fallen down to low 250s. The gauges themselves probably are not perfectly calibrated and may also have some error margin. But the 0.4 bar drop when the steam valve is opened is also what I'm experiencing. Now I try to say it's good enough for home use and just enjoy the machine. *P.S: This is after letting the machine warm up fully for an hour and I also have the US version of the machine.
@@tyurek Yeah I've given up on getting the advertised performance. Just ticks me off. It's like buying a car where they say it goes 100 mph but I only can go 80 mpg. Then to hear from WLL that there is no need to go 100 and 80 is fine. HA I know even at 1.5 that's good pressure and for what I am using it for, it'll be fine. But my performance even drops to 1.0 which is what I don't like. WLL gave me some BS excuse and when I responded countering their assessment, they never responded back. Anyways, I went with a 4 hole steam tip so that sped things up and I don't even have the valve open for more then may 15 seconds.
I have this new Profitec 700 that I got a couple weeks ago but the steam pressure stays at 1.5. Shouldn't it be at 2?
Hi RR, Did you set the steam boiler to its highest temp? If not that's the "T2" setting on PID controller. At max setting of 272F you should get ~2bar.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you! Easy fix
Hello friend, this machine works for me for a business, could I make a lot of coffee in one day and have no problem?
Hi ES, Thanks for the question. While it's not technically a commercial machine I had a local cafe owner on a live stream last week who uses the Pro 700 for catering and events. You can see him using the Pro 700 here: czcams.com/video/qkGkGNTM6Lk/video.html
Marc
I have this Profitec Pro 700 and I was told it's as "good" as my local coffee house, it's not. After spending nearly $4K with their grinder I'm not a happy camper. Your review is fine, but people thinking they're going to get $17K+ espresso machine coffee house equivalent at home they simply will not. It's good but I'm frustrated. 😒
Hi D, Sorry you are having trouble. I have to say the Pro 700 is one of the best machines in it's class. Not sure who compared (or said) it was the equal of a $17,000 machine. But with proper skill I do believe it's every bit as capable of producing a cafe quality shot. Most will tell you excellent espresso is a result of these factors in descending order of importance: Bean, grind, skill of barista, machine. Nail the first 3 and most machines at HX boiler PID or above can produce similar shots.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage .. Same beans, Same "Barista" person who came to our house ... obviously different machines .. our water is not hard .. and while good it's not as good. Again, it's for home use, morning espresso, evening cappuccino and so on. So I don't what more to say, we could go in circles. Hey it looks good anyway, so there's that.
Dude KNOWS his Equip., etc., but Still sounds to me like a lot of the guys I went to school with back in the 70's who were Still Stoned Over on Monday from the weekend......at Some point, I'm expecting Tommy Chong to make an appearance..
Hi David, Lol! I'd love to have Tommy make an appearance! Yep, Fast Time at Ridgemont High was pretty much my HS experience!
Marc
Marc, I wonder if you know why Profitec/ECM decided not to introduce pump pressure preinfusion from the reservoir. It would seem to me an attainable feature (but I'm no expert). Is it a technical limitation or just a design decision?
Hi Joshua, It could probably be done but would require the pump running and then controlling pressure after the pump. That gets a little complex and adds points of failure IMO. The Rocket R60 has this capability. It would increase the cost/complexity significantly. But, GOOD NEWS - timing of your question is perfection!... Profitec just released their E61 FCD (flow control device). It allows for long low pressure/flow pre-infusion and variable flow control for the duration of the shot - even when using reservoir water source. It's a simple yet effective lower cost way of achieving the same thing. Here's an article with more information on the device which came out yesterday in the Daily Coffee News by Roast Magazine: dailycoffeenews.com/2019/04/10/whole-latte-love-and-profitec-ecm-launch-flow-control-device-for-e61-groupheads/
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage That is awesome news! That really gives someone the option to get pre-infusion without having to hit the $2800+ price point on Profitect/ECM machines (which I prefer at this point). It would be very difficult for me to plumb the machine in my house so there really isn't another big feature for me to spend that much $$ on. Again, awesome news!