Review: Profitec Pro 600 Sneak Peak from the Factory in Milan, Italy
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- čas přidán 13. 08. 2018
- Review how the Profitec Pro 600 espresso machine is made. Whole Latte Love visits the Profitec factory in Italy near Milan. We talk with Michael Hauck of Profitec about the capabilities, design and engineering of Profitec's newest dual boiler PID espresso machine. The Pro 600 is set to fill a gap between Profitec's other dual boiler machines the Pro 300 and Pro 700.
Pro 600:
www.wholelattelove.com/profit...
Check out all the Profitec machines here: www.wholelattelove.com/brands... - Jak na to + styl
Check out the Pro 600 in-depth review: czcams.com/video/bB0eg0hG638/video.html
was waiting for this review so patiently.. thanks for uploading
Hi UH, Our pleasure and thank you for the comment!
Always nice to see where these products are made, in far off lands. I enjoyed the comment section here more than the video, as your responses are filled with such detailed knowledge!
Thanks for the comment! I do try and share the knowledge as best I can.
Marc
Just bought a 600 and I CAN. NOT. WAIT to start pulling shots!!
Hi KJR, Congrats! Pro 600 is a fantastic machine. Do let us know how it goes!
Marc
Great review, I'm sold on Profitec,
I can appreciate the German engineered but made in Italy.
Now I need to decide 600/700.
Hi FI, Thank you for the comment! If you can swing it, go with the 700 and plumb it! Nothing like the sweet purr of it's rotary pump, pre-infusion capability and never filling a reservoir again!
Marc
Thank you Marc, Ironic as thats the direction im going, not a huge difference in price, and there is a possibility to plumb it in, plus other features, aesthetically I also do not like the black side panels. without hijacking the thread, what are your thoughts on pairing this up with a Sette 270? thanks for the great videos.
@@Wholelattelovepage
I purchased a single boiler ECM machine about 18 months ago...........I never had it so good.
NO REGRETS!
Hi rick, thanks for sharing your experience! Do you have the Casa or the Classika? Did you have a machine prior to your ECM?
Marc
Whole Latte Love Hi Marc, my Classika replaced my BDB(second one). Single boiler works just fine for me as I really don't get all this interest in milky drinks. I suspect too many folks have been introduced to coffee via the Starbucks(sugarshack) rout.
Happy to hear you are loving your Classika! It's a perfect choice for those who are more about the espresso than the milk! Your $harbucks comment is timely. We spoke with a lot of machine manufacturers in Italy. All gave credit to the sugarshack for helping drive machine sales around the world. Side note: very few Italian manufacturers sell any prosumer machines domestically. Espresso is more of a commodity in Italy - cheap and quick. Moka pots are the typical home use "machine". Maybe that will change I hear Starbucks is opening a location in Milan.Marc
Thanks for the video. Can you do a steaming comparison between the 600 and 700? I'm not that concerned about time but I'm curious which one would produce the drier steam given the new 2 bar pressure of the 600. Maybe one way to figure this out is to steam the same amount of milk to the same temp and weigh each pitcher before and after?
Hi Alex, Thank you for the comment and suggestion. We will have more detail on the Pro 600 in the coming weeks! Off the top of my head I wouldn't expect much difference between the 2 machines in water content of the steam. But we will check it out - thanks for the suggestion!
Marc
You guys are KILLING ME. Ugh man I just upgraded last December to the 500. Then a month later the 500 PID came out but this. This may be worth biting the bullet on so to speak. Its a dream set up for me. Granted I don’t “need it” but this beast is hard to pass up! You’re company ever consider a buy back upgrade program?? 🤔
Hi Alex, ECM/Profitec works continuously to make better machines! I love the details inside. The little things which are invisible to many but make a difference like ceramic mushrooms in their E61 groups and upgrades to their OPVs. Then there are the big ones like best in class steam pressure in the 600, 700 and Synchronika. In your shoes, I might thinking about going with a 700. IMO going from a reservoir to plumbed machine is life changing and gotta love the smooth sound of rotary pumps! When plumbed you can do line pressure pre-infusion too. We have not considered a buy back program :(.
Marc
Whole Latte Love plumbed line is nice! It’s definitely a task keeping up with cleaning the plastic reservoir and keeping it algae free.
Can’t seem to find a really in depth review of the pro 600 yet. Can you comment on the steam pressure when making 6+ milk drinks in successsion? Any issues there? Coming from the pro 500 pid, the steam pressure usually hitting .5-.7 bars wasn’t entirely pleasant but like you pointed out in one of your other videos, it’s endless steam. How does the pro 600 hold up to that?
Thank you!
Hi Joey, Thanks for the question! When idle the Pro 600 runs near 2 bar of steam pressure thanks to the same PID/safety valve upgrade found in more recent Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika machines. The 600's steam boiler is about half the size of the P700/Sync boiler. I don't have hard data on multi drink recovery time. But, in my experience by the time you've poured the first drink then grind for and setup for the next recovery is complete.
Marc
Of course this would come out just after I bought my Profitec Pro 500 arg! Also why do you guys push the stainless boiler so hard when Profitec also do a copper boiler for Australia?
Hi Homer, It is a bummer when a new product comes out you like after making a purchase! That said the Pro 500 PID is an excellent machine. As far as stainless boilers... While we were at the Profitec factory they were producing Pro 600's for Australia and they have stainless boilers. They do make a couple of machines with copper/brass boilers. As Michael points out in the video he feels stainless is a cleaner material for boilers and no benefit to using copper.
Marc
What could the reasons be for choosing this over the Pro 500 PID? Seeing as one of the main reasons of choosing a dual boiler machine; the temperature stability - is kind of moot since the Pro 500 PID is equally as stable? Thanks for an excellent video!
Tanax13 thanks for the comment and questions. Your are correct, temp stability is similar. Some differences with the 600: higher steaming pressure, shot timer, eco mode, backflush reminder.
I guess it is time to find a new home for our much loved Pro 500.
Hi Don, There's a whole latte to love in the Pro 500. Sound like someone has a case of upgraditist!
Marc
It’s been a long road from a Mr. Coffee long ago. It is hard to imagine the Pro 600 is going to make a better coffee than our Pro 500, because out coffees are killer now. We are going to find out though!
Hey Don, If you are going to upgrade have you considered moving to a plumbable dual boiler machine? PP600 is reservoir only. The Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika are plumbable DBs. Never thinking about filling a reservoir - it's a life changing experience! Both have all the same features of the Pro 600 including the bump in steam pressure to 2bar. Both have rotary pumps and larger brew boiler. Pro 700 is currently $200 off.Marc
Actually we did consider it. Our tap water is loaded with calcium, so some sort of water filtering is necessity. I used an inline filter on a cold water line for a few years, and I was never happy with the results in water quality, and I’m too old to be screwing with accessing the filter to change it under the sink. Now I just bring in jugs of water store water and use it for coffee and drinking. It’s easy, cheap, and I can fill up at the grocery store or Walmart about once a week. Our coffee is great, no filters to screw with, and all is good.
Hey Don, I hear you. Do what works for you :)
So did you do something to offend the guy to your left at 5:36? He looked at you like you dropped a deuce on the floor.
Lol! No that's his natural look - nice guy!
OMG I AM IN TEARS!! LOL
Do dual boiler machines pose any maintenance issues for the average consumer? I have read somewhere that de-scaling can be problematic.
Hi PT R3, Thanks for an excellent question! Most manufacturers recommend dual boiler machines be descaled by a professional service technician. It is possible to descale yourself, but only recommend if you are very comfortable working with plumbing etc. You can avoid scale build-up by using a quality water filtration system. For plumbed in machines we recommend the BWT Bestmax Premium system: www.wholelattelove.com/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package It uses patented ion-exchange technology to replace calcium with magnesium. When used properly the filter reduces scaling potential yet maintains a mineral level in brew water for best flavor.
Marc
Whole Latte Love
Marc, I suppose one could setup a faucet for the filtered water and use it to fill the reservoir from it or for a kettle to do pour over. Hmmm🤔. Thank you for your help, PT
I would like to buy one between profited 300 and Rocket r58.
Do you advice me to buy this 600 instead?
Hi LM, Thanks for the question. The Pro 600 will be a fine choice. The Pro 300 does not have the steam upgrade for 2bar of pressure in the service boiler. Compared to the R58 you are giving up the rotary pump and the ability to plumb the machine direct to a waterline. Initial steam pressure in the Pro 600 is higher than the R58. If you must have rotary pump and a plumbable machine think R58, Profitec Pro 700 or the ECM Synchronika. Both the Pro 700 and Synchronika have the 2bar steam pressure upgrade as well.
Marc
Whole Latte Love thank you for the quick and complete answer. Very helpful. I hope you have a great day. Greetings from Italy
Our pleasure! Really enjoyed our visit to Italy!!!
I just can’t decide which one to get!
Hey Kelli, Decisions right? If thinking of going full on dual boiler machine check out this video featuring 5 of our DB favorites for 2021: czcams.com/video/FCm3EVa-xE8/video.html
Marc
can you please tell me the different between Profitec 600 and 700? many thanks
Hi Nga, Sure can...The Pro 600 is smaller in overall size than the 700. It has a smaller steam boiler, uses a vibration pump and is not plumbable direct to a waterline. Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Marc
super, thank you very much for your very quick Response. i am looking for a semi-Commercial coffee machine and may profitec 700 is good choice? any Suggestion from you? thanks
I know you said the profit tech ECM has raised a steam pressure to almost 2 bars. Have you tested the rocket machines for steam pressure what are they at?
Hi M, Thanks for the question. It varies a bit by machine. Max service boiler temp in the dual boiler Rocket R58 is 262F which = 1.5bar. Doubt you'd ever want to run an HX boiler machine that hot as your brew water would be way over temp.
What did he say there about copper vs stainless boilers? He said “we think it’s a cleaner material” then he spoke about descaling I think, but I couldn’t make out exactly what he was saying.
Hi a, I believe you are referring to Michael discussing how copper ends up discoloring when water and/or descaling agents make contact with copper.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage That is what I thought he was talking about. You know that green discolouration is considered a a very attractive quality if you have seen the copper sheathed roofs of the any railways hotels (1800's) or parliment buildings in Canada. ie. Château Frontenac in Quebec City
Lost Comma guess the green is not so appreciated inside an espresso machine. Also internally I believe stainless is likely to hold/bond scale to its surface.
yes - he's referring to the copper rust, which is "Grünspan" (green-span) in German... just mixing up the German and English words a little.
Hey guys, can you compare the Profitec Pro 500 vs 600, or is the 600 a replacement to the 500?
Corre Panama Hi, thanks for the question. The Pro 600 is not a replacement for the 500. The 500 uses a heat exchange boiler while the 600 is a dual boiler.
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks! I read the specs, also saw that is slightly bigger, but not by much. Would be great to get a video "review, comparison & recommendation" for potential clients.. You know, a what we recommend if you want to ......
Thanks again for the prompt reply.
Hi CP, Thanks for the request. So yes, the Pro 600 is basically a dual boiler machine in the frame of the Pro 500 HX Machine. On my to do list is a compare video of all the Pro x00 models.
ECM and Profitec are same group ?
Hi Ko, Yes they are it's kind of like Toyota/Lexus where Profitec is Toyota and ECM is Lexus. For instance, Internally the Profitec Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika are nearly identical. On the outside the ECM Synchronika takes refinement a step further with features like lever operated valves, PID display which blends into the bodywork, angled steam and hot water wands, single piece frame base, easiest to open case on the market and an included high quality tamper etched with logo.
Marc
Thanks for your info, Marc. Following your videos all this time, I can see they are making good machines, technically and aesthetically. Unfortunately, it's not really 'available' in my country (Indonesia)
how does it compare to the new ECM machanika V slim?
Hi SD, Thanks for the question. Mechanika Slim is a non-pid, HX boiler (very large 2.2L boiler!) machine. The Pro 600 is dual boiler, PID with shot timer, more initial steaming pressure ~2bar and additional features like the ability to turn off the steam boiler, Eco mode which turns off the boiler after a user set time and user setable backflush reminder.
Marc
You are welcome Ko! Excellent machines - bummer not "available" in your country.
Considering buying one of the Profitec Pro machines for home use. Most of the time one person... just few espresso during the day and cappuchino/latte in the afternoon and on weekends.
Probably the Pro300 would be sufficient already for my needs, but I'm not happy with the design. Are there relevant benefits to go for the dual-boiler 600 compared to the 500, when just serving around 5 espresso a day, half of it with milk?
The warmup-time and total machine-size would also be relevant considerations in a small kitchen and sometimes limited time in the morning.
Hi Thorsten, Thanks for the questions. The Pro 500 and 600 are essentially the same size. Warm up time is similar. If warm up time is a concern you might consider a timer - I love WiFi enabled timers! What you get in the 600 that's not in the 500: More initial steam pressure. The steam boiler in the 600 runs up to near 2 bar of pressure in the steam boiler. In the 500 it's about 1.1 bar. 600 has the shot timer, programmable time for boiler turn off and programmable backflush counter. 500 does not have those functions. In essence the Pro 600 is similar to the current Pro 700 but with a smaller steam boiler, vibration pump and it's not plumbable. If you go with a dual boiler do feed it with good water. HX machines like the 500 are user descalable. Dual boiler machines generally are not unless you know what you're doing. Best way to deal with that is quality source water which reduces or eliminates the need to descale. Potential espresso quality is IMO identical between the machines. Steaming performance advantage goes to the 600 with the additional steam pressure and your volume of daily drinks. Hope that helps. Let me know if you have more questions!
Marc
Thorsten E. Gebuhr I am similar to you being a 4 shots and 6 ounces of steamed milk per day. My 500 does the job well. I can steam good textured milk and pull a shot simultaneously so it works well for me. The 600 obviously will steam better but realistically it’s probably unnecessary for users like us. If money isn’t a major issue than my personal opinion I would do the 600. But if your looking for good performance and tasty drinks for the money I would stick with the 500. Just my .02 as I know how overwhelming and pricey these machines can be. I have no regrets at all buying my 500 even it being the older non PID model. Also like Marc suggested I used the wifi power plug it was a fantastic suggestion by Marc and Profitec engineer
Can the pid be upgraded on the Pro 800 for more steam pressure? I would (wholelatte)love to see more pro 800 videos btw #levaforeva :)
Hi Lzz, Can't upgrade PID as it only works for dual boiler machines where steam and brew boilers are separate. Increasing pressure/temperature in the 800 would result in high brew temps. Will try and do more PP800 and Lever machine videos in near future. Incidentally, I was in Italy a couple of weeks ago and was lucky enough to get a personal lever demo at the Izzo factory by Alex Izzo. The Izzo Alex Duetto machine (not a lever) is named for him. He pulled an incredible lever shot (using coffee he roasted) into a flat saucer with crema that barely faded after 10 minutes. It tasted fantastic too! I got video of the demo which I hope to share on the channel in the coming weeks. I love lever shots - like pressure profiling it ramps off the pressure to avoid over-extraction and produces smooth, sweet and syrupy shots with the right coffee.
Marc
Thanks for the answer as always Marc. 😎☕️
NP!
So is Profitec a German company or an Italian company?
Hi b, Thanks for the question. Profitec is a German company with manufacturing facilities in Germany and Italy.
Marc
Seems to be a great performer, but myself I'm not a fan of controls in wet zone. Dials aren't that bad, but switch....I'm not too lousy but occasionally mistamp and get a pinhole which in combination with bottomless PF means coffee on front wall. Switch for sure is small but never underestimate ways of coffee may go. Steam wand is on same side...what's you experience with low mounted switches?
Thanks for the question. Understand your concern with the switch down low. I've used lots of machines from Rocket, Profitec and ECM with low mounted power switches and never had an issue. And like you I've had the occasional squirt from a bottomless PF. To date, I've never had an issue. I'm asking our service manager if he's ever run into a problem and will let you know.
Marc
From our service manager: "No it’s extremely rare. For the switch to get wet you need a leak on the boiler. If you want to worry about that, the entire machine is a wet zone."
Oh, thanks for sharing your positive experience! And I really appreciate sparkling humor of service manager - entire machine is a wet zone)) I like outcome - experience always clears up doubts of a layman.
He does have a sense of humor - I enjoy not filtering his opinions!
❤️☕️🇧🇬