I remember the service manual for my 1980 Kawasaki: it said "Remove the master cylinder cover and gasket. With the handlebar level, slowly squeeze the brake lever several times. This removes air from the master cylinder." These weren't the exact words, but they told one to start by bleeding the top of the system. I would often see tiny air bubbles emerging. This saves a ton of time, as these tiny bubbles don't have to be pushed all the way through the system.
Vacuum bled my brakes not a single bubble but still a soggy lever. After hitting the caliper with a rubber mallet and repeating the bleeding process a couple times, success. Thanks for this video learned something new 👍
Ah! Rubber mallet. I have one, and I have this brake issue, too. Rubber mallet would be more effective, I imagine, than a plastic-handled tool. Thank you,
After installing steel braided brake lines on my 2018 Kawasaki Z900 RS, I had a terrible time getting the air out of the system. I used vacuum bleeders, and everything I could think of to no avail. What ended up fixing the problem was to fill the front brake reservoir, leave the cover off and putting a Velcro strap around the front brake lever and grip to apply the brake. I let it sit in my garage this way over the weekend. It had firmed up considerably but still not to my liking. So I tried it again for 3 days. It worked like a champ this time. No air at all in the front system now. The air will gradually bubble up over time and purge itself. It takes patience but works like a champ!
Nice video as always. I use the old fashioned bleed process to start with after cleaning out the old fluid from the m/cyl's and topping up with fresh. I then use the syringe method from the bleed nipple to inject new fluid from the calipers to the m/cyl if theres any spongy feeling still. Once completed I zip tie the levers in the activated position overnight to free up any remaining bubbles.
Here's a tip from a friend who swears by this simple method. With the wheels off the ground, and the bleeder open, spin the wheel which will set up a vibration of the brake rotor against the brake pads and into the caliper. That vibration will break loose the bubbles. He didn't say how long to do this ( maybe that's why I haven't seen him in weeks...) but I suspect it would be until you saw the bubbles come out assuming there are any.
Performing a 50k inspection and repairs on my “new for me” Honda, I am soooo looking forward to that day I am ready to bleed the Honda ABS brake system! A few basic recollections: If the manuals state having the handle bars rotated to full lock, one side or the other, do that. When operating any pumps or levers or bleeder valves, know that rapid operation almost always will introduce air into the system as piston seals can easily succumb to ambient air pressures. SLOWLY operate control levers, bleeder valves and pump handles to avoid sucking air. Vinyl hoses are great for visuals, and famous for back-leaking air into the system; make sure the vinyl fits snugly over the bleed valve. As pointed out in the vid, keep that vinyl hose upright in order to maintain a good seal, as any drooping may easily cause a vacuum and subsequent introduction of air. Oh, and bleed valves are machined by design to a taper, and taper fits require only gentle torque pressure. Good luck; keep that master cylinder wet and ride on!
As an old, experienced, mechanic, I have been amazed at how much better brakes work with fresh fluid. After 50 years, a physics teacher explained to me, that when two liquids mix (brake fluid+water) the result is thicker. Yes temperature excursion slowly brings water into your system. Don't expect you to believe this, no one else does.
I believe you. Brake fluid that sits in an open container for over a year is suspect to me since DOT 4 absorbs water from the atmosphere and I live in a high humidity area... I also should have mentioned that you should let your brake fluid settle for at least 6 hours, brake fluid you've just brought home from the store in your saddle bag or back of your car is agitated with air.
You can use a vaccum pot to remove any air or water in the fluid when you purchase it if you want to be OCD about it, but it's better to just move to DOT 5.1. You can also replace the bleeder valve with one way valve to make this easier.
@us3804 DOT4 is primarily composed of Polyethylene Glycol (PEG). It degrades when heated to 70 Celsius (158F) which happens regularly under braking on a performance bike. Reusing the brake fluid is not an option since as it ages the fluid creates formic acid esters during the heat cycle. Brake fluid should be replaced and never reused.
wasn't getting any pressure on my brake lever after bleeding right and left caliper several times. after seeing this vid and bench bleeding finally got it working again. thanks for the vid! keep up the great tips :D
Great video! I also have a 2010 VFR1200 with only 8000 km and the brakes went super mushy. I did bleed the calipers and saw and improvement, but being lazy, I stopped there. This will give me a kick in the ass to finish the job completely using your tips!
no banjo bolt work…. just put the cap back on the master cyl, turn handlebars to the full left lock w/bike on side stand, and quickly flutter the brake lever. bubbles work their way up into the master cyl reservoir, lever gets firmer. no mess.👍
After changing the master cylinder with plunger/spring/washer/circlip, dust boot, brake line, everything in the caliper including the piston, rubber washers, dust seal, dust seal spring (all genuine Yamaha parts) on my Nissen brake for my Yamaha XT350 1991 model, I tried bleeding the brake. No luck. Two friends, independent of each other, with a combined 60 years of experience in motorbike maintenance couldn't get it to work either. It just wouldn't build any pressure, no matter what equipment or procedure we used. The piston popped out nicely when they applied pressured air, but not when using the lever. Then one said that when bleeding just doesn't work, I could try just parking the bike, with the master cylinder at the highest point and give it a few days. I did so, but still no pressure. Due to bad weather and no garage, I had to wait another week or so, then decided to take it all apart, for the 4th. time. Before draining the brake fluid I thought I'd give it one last go. Wheeled the bike around, pulled the lever and the brakes worked! So, if all else fails, might want to try that!
Thanks for the tip on bench bleeding, I replaced the brake line on my 99 Triumph Adventurer and it would not build pressure. Cracked the banjo bolt on the master cylinder and went through the process, I had pressure in no time. Thanks again and have a great day!!
Thanks for the feedback & view! Hope you'll consider subscribing and checking out the channel for more... czcams.com/channels/O_50CcJ2oAP9mH2g_8AKlg.html
brilliant, i've been working on my bikes for 35 years but yesterday was having a completely nightmare trying to get pressure at the rear brake on my 05 ducati multistrada, the trouble is with the single sided swing arm the hose takes a terrible path from the low calliper along the under side of the swing arm and around the front of the swing arm then over and back to the m/c. i changed the m/c and line and used a syringe to try to pull fluid out of the bleed valve on the calliper, i was getting clean new fluid coming through but the lever was still totally soft, i tried tapping the line and moving the m/c about to try to get bubbles up and i was trying normal bleeding pumping the lever anbd releasing the bleed valve, all in all for hours yesterday and still couldn't get any pressure. i gave up and hoped bubbles would work their way up overnight, but this morning i still couldn't get any bubble to come out into the reservoir. in desperation i looked on youtube to see if there was anything i hadn't thought of or that i had forgotton or missed, and found your video, the tip at 5 minutes of cracking open the banjo bolt to release air trapped in the m/c made sense so i tried it, in only 2 or 3 goes i had all the air out and a really lovely firm lever, the whole thing took about 2 minutes!!!!! thank you.
This is the simplest and best/proper technique to use on your motorcycle. Trust this method it worked like magic for my two bikes! - Thanks for another awesome vid!
My nephew and his friends always used one of those vacuum bleeder tools when bleeding brakes. Then they called uncle up to help make it work again when they filled the system with air. What I have found is most brake lines go on some form of ‘ roller coaster ‘ ride with at least one good hill for air bubbles to rise into. If you don’t move the fluid fast enough and far enough the bubbles just keep going up the hill.
I have a daytona with an Rcs19 corsa corta MC. When I was bleeding the abs unit, I believe it pushed some air somewhere and my lever just went from super firm to super Bleh. Thankfully the brembo MCs come with a bleed nipple at the MC, so a couple of rounds of bleeding the MC tends to solve that issue. I think there's also the issue of not FLUSHING all the old fluid from your entire system. This can typically take a while if you have ABS. So I aim to at least run a 250ml bottle through the entire system, preferably 350-400ml, including the abs unit bleeds. At least at that point I KNOW my fluid is fresh and good to go. Another great tip I picked up was bleeding the MC and the caliper just a touch after coming back from a ride where you have punished the brake in quick succession. It tends to let out the last of the persistent air bubbles.
I have the Brembo brake curse on one of my bikes (Let it sit too long, air gets in). My lever will go to the bar, no resistance. The only fix I've found (besides switching parts) is to put a rubber band or zip tie on the brake if storing it for a while, which doesn't seem right to me, but it does seem to work. I have no idea what is happening, but other people are having the same problem on brand new bikes. No fluid leaks, the level stays the same, and the brakes are extremely nice (when they work)
Thanks for the view & feedback! There is a more detailed explanation of a full system bleed found on one of my recent videos here czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html
Hold the clear tube above the nipple to allow the air to travel out as you pump the vacuumed unit. A better idea is pressure bleeding at the master cyl especially having abs system. Find an old lid and drill a hole into the lid. Attach a nipple to it that is sealed. Crack the calliper nipple and apply little pressure to push the fluid and air out. This works on cars too. Note: the pressure unit has to fill the master cyl at the same time to keep the level right and not to drain out the master cylinder. I’ve done this for 25 years and never had a problem and have had a better feel then factory…
Doing mountain bike brakes, I would tap, see a bubble and so on for an extended time until no more bubbles appeared. Using a pad sander w/out sand paper might help also.
I have gained a nice and hard lever feeling by tightening the lever - after pumping it several times - to the handle over night and have then bled the master cylinder bleed valve and the calipers in addition. Pressurizing the brake lines over a longer period will cause air bubbles to move to the highest point i.e. master cylinder reservoir or master cylinder bleed valve.
Nice video! I've been wrestling with a spongy front brake on a dirt bike with my sons. I cant wait to try the bench method tomorrow morning.. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and to the many others who have written here with even more great ideas.
Had the spongy feeling on the clutch a couple of weeks ago. It might be the air sitting on the cylinder as you described. Don't know why I got some air in the system, getting the clutch lever loose when doing a lot of travel on mountain roads, but perfectly fine when the bike was cold. I pumped the air out manually, and now it seems to be ok...
Very typical for clutch or brake hydraulic systems to exhibit sponginess at high mountain altitudes. The air in the system that was not noticeable at lower elevations, expands and causes real problems at higher ones. I had to bleed my Ducat’s clutch system at the master cylinder banjo bolt when this issue occurred in the mountains of CO. Fixed the problem.
Take off banjo bolt and prime the plunger then put it back on, fill the reservoir, leave open, prime bubbles out, while bleeding calipers works on my J Brake hand control
I have no problem bleeding brakes on any bike, EXCEPT older Yamahas. For some reason they give me interminable headaches. I've used all these techniques to no avail
I had to hang my calipers to avoid any brake line or connectors make high spots, so no air can be trapped anywhere. Leave it for a day like this and squeezing the lever once in an hour made the job. No bleed needed.
HEY !!! FYI... LEFT on a "Goldwing" is split from the REAR Brake :-) the "Front" on a Goldwing or many Honda's is ONLY on the right :-) I bleed the masters first, till I don't see or hear any bubs.. then move to the slaves, er Calipers 🙂 and.. yea.. I need to rebuild my front and rear masters :-( Great Vid !!!
Hi there, although the left caliper is split between front & rear brakes on most Honda linked systems you still have to bleed it, there are two bleeder vales one for each system. On the late model goldwing, like the one I am working on now, czcams.com/video/5-xmfVCqwC0/video.html the linked system to the rear actually activates BOTH front calipers so there are two bleeders on each front caliper as well as two on the rear since the front brake activation also activates the rear brake. The goldwing has the added benefit/complexity of the anti-dive system as well which required bleeding. In any case in 99% of shop manuals I have read, and every technician I have worked with prefers to bleed the system from the furthest point from the master cylinder first. Thanks for the view and let us know how your project turns out! 👍 Happy to send you a Goldwing Service Manual email me through my YT page.
I've had luck turning the handle bar full left and with the bike on the side stand. I could then tap the reservoir and along the lines while slowing squeezing the lever. A lot of air comes out and is usually the final step to get the sponginess out.
I just replaced the rear master cylinder on my R1, and couldn't figure out how I wasn't getting pressure when it's pulling fluid through the system. Will definitely try bench bleeding it tomorrow.
Was done on purpose you could not see the spray from the banjo bolt with white shop towels in BG covering the tank. Makes no difference if you close the bleeder valve or not before taking the hose off as long as you don't touch the brake lever. Brake fluid still flows out the bleeder if the hose is there or not, air does not enter the system... Thanks for the view!
Interesting idea... to put the hose on the bleed nipple and aim it upwards... given the bubbles do not sink. I would not have thought of that. I did a calliper and master cylinder rebuild yesterday, but the front brakes are softer than before, though smoother as I cleaned the calliper pistons and fitted new seals. 5:45 If I do this finger trick, when I take my finger off the outlet of the master cylinder / reservoir, surely air will get back in, or have I missed a point? Anyway, I will try to upward-pointing hose / plastic-handled driver calliper-tapping thing when I get home (after riding my bike with mediocre-at-best brakes). Thanks. (Scooter with floating calliper and a combined braking system secondary master cylinder for the middle pot in the Calliper. Which may, I am not sure, make this video irrelevant.)
On some calipers because of their position you can back feed, vacuum pump, lever pump all day and you will never get that small pocket of air out, the only way to get it out you must remove the caliper, then put something inbetween the pads so they don't come together, then start pumping the lever with the pistons verticle, then pump with them horrizontal, then on many different angles up, down, 90° left, 90° right, and as you pump the lever with every angle you will see the bubbles from that tiny air pocket come out,,,,, also don't forget to tap on the break line with a screw driver handle as you pump. On some break calipers if you don't take it off and do this you will always have a spongy lever😢😢😢😢.
whats the first thing you do to car master cyinder when you take it out of the box, you bench bleed it. If you dont, like I did before the light came on, I ran a big bottle of fluid through it twice to no avail. But once I did bleed it, I filed the lines with brake fluid and five miutes later I had a full pedal that was rock solid. I did this on my grandsons kx 100 then on my klx 140 and cr250 after giving up twice. A video is coming soon
Got pressure with the finger technique took my finger off and a load of fluid drained out. Put banjo bolt back in and still no pressure. Master cylinder has been rebuilt and no leaks. Been trying to resolve this for 2 ucking days!
All brake fluid containers must have the AIR removed, before putting the fluid in the vehicle. CANS, do this, brake the seal under cap. Replace cap loosely, so the air bubbles will expand, rise and POP. All other bleeding equipment must be treated the same. The idea IS to get the air bubbles to EXPAND, RISE, and POP. IT TAKES 20 MINITS TO DO THIS. Go get a beer & wait it out. It's really worth it. I just about killed a customer not knowing this.
One more question if I may? Once there is sufficiate volume and removing your finger as stated at 5:41 should the handle or pedal be held down until the banjo bolt is installed? I wouldn't want to re-introduce any air returning back to the MC reservoir. I sincerely appreciate your help! Thank you Rod. 👍
@@rapaent If you hold your thumb on the master cylinder banjo bolt hole while releasing the lever as you've done up to this point to get fluid into the cylinder, you can then remove your thumb to install the banjo bolt. It is not possible to hold your thumb on master cylinder and install the banjo bolt at the same time... As long as you put the banjo bolt on quickly and do not let all the fluid in the cylinder drain out, you will not introduce more air into the master cylinder. Remember you still have to bleed the line and caliper after the master cylinder to get all the air out of the system.
Yes I believe that is what I said during the demonstration of using your thumb to bring fluid into the piston chamber of the master cylinder. If you have a completely drained system. also demonstrated in this video czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html where the master cylinder is rebuilt.
What does it mean if I can lock my back wheel, but there's no progressive brake power before that point. I get virtually no stopping power until I press the lever all the way and it skids. I took the whole system off my bike, hung it vertically, and pumped with syringe up. I was thoughtful about all the angles and air pockets.. Would brake fluid on my pads/rotor cause this?
When was the last time the caliper was rebuilt or your master cylinder? czcams.com/video/6QUKiY75VpI/video.htmlsi=RcMyJitmunMFoUfe sounds like mechanical issue. Also does your bike have a linked braking system? These have additional bleed points. Good Luck
Hi mate, I'm having trouble with my piston not coming out to meet the pads. I had to replace my caliper so when I came to bleed it up there was no fluid in the system, I managed to get fluid thru and with no air bubbles in the system. But then I noticed when I press my brake the piston comes out and then retracts as it should but the problem is that the piston isn't anywhere near the pads yet. For reference it is the rear brake on a Yamaha r6 2000 and is second hand caliper so really I should have cleaned/re sealed it I know 😂 was just wondering if you have had this problem before or know where I should start before stripping caliper or the master cylinder.
Hi Joseph, in this video I show how to bleed out a completely empty system and bench bleed the master cylinder czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html I have cued to that section. I don't really understand how this is happening to your brake unless the system has a crap load of air in it and you are not moving enough fluid into the caliper. Check it out and let me know how it went for you. Thanks for the question & view!
@@RodRidesWrenches I'll give that a watch when the kids are in bed haha but thank you for replying never mind how quick it was 👌 but yeah what you described sounds right about there not being enough fluid passing thru so I'll give your video a watch and then next time I get to the garage I'll try what I learn or just bleed the hell out of it 😂. Once again thank you for your advice 💪
Ever figure it out? I heard an R6 owner had this problem but there were actually two bleed nipples on the rear of the R6 and that’s why they weren’t getting good pressure.
Did my brakes the other week and did almost all of things shown in this video, as this is how I've been doing the. For years but bleeding and topping up the res for literally hours did absolutely nothing. Only when I replaced the cover and membrane inThe master cylinder did it begin to build pressure. Its all done now and it passed inspection (mot in the UK) but air seems to be in the system as the lever pulls back to the bar Initially, before pumping up back to pressure. Just wondering now if the master cylinder needs a refurb, as it's had new caliper seals an d braided hoses fitted
I had the same problem with my vmax after fitting new braided hoses, brake pressure is fine but next day back to the bar, pump it up and get pressure again. Before ordering a new master cycliner rebuild kit check the bleed nipples as you might need new ones, mine were leaking a little fluid overnight, fitted new ones and all now OK. Don't open the bleed nipples too much when bleeding as this will allow air into the system, 1/4 turn is sufficient, also apply a little copper grease to the bleed nipple threads before installing new ones as this creates a barrier that air can't get past so easily. We live and learn don't we.
Awesome Video!! I have a 2004 Honda Goldwing Lehman Trike. My rears are drum brakes with the fronts honda oem disc brakes. I use speed bleeders along with their hose & catch drain bag. I normally lay the bag on the floor while bleeding. You mentioned holding your hose upright do to air re-entering 1:43 Should I do this on th the drum brakes as well? Thanks again..... Appreciate it. 👍
Holding the brake line vertical ensures there is always fluid at the bottom of your bleed line. Hydraulic Drum Brakes usually have at least one dual sided piston mechanism called the wheel cylinder at the top or bottom of the hub. Just be sure not to let an air gap form where the hose meets the bleeder valve when gravity bleeding. The added bonus of being able to activate the brakes to force out air while having enough fluid in the hose so no air gets sucked back in, is the best reason to do it this way.
Awesome!! Thanks for the explaination! I have one more question if you don't mind.... I'm replacing my rear brake MC on my 2004 GL1800. Do I need to disasemble it to lube the parts or will they simply get lubed during the bleeding process? I'll make sure I start out like you did at 5:20 but, with the rear brake MC. Thanks again, appreciate it.👍@@RodRidesWrenches
@@rapaentIf this is a used rear master cylinder I would order a rebuild kit and just redo it. Never be easier to do than now when it is out of the bike, but NO you do not have to lubricate it, when fluid fills the cylinder it is lubed. czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.htmlsi=nuxbmBof9yCQeCnf If this is a used caliper, I would rebuild it and replace the seals, you don't know what the condition of them are. The space between the main fluid seal and dust seal on the piston can pack up with corrosion.
Thank You Rod! It's a new complete MC. Glad I don't have to take it apart and lube it.... That'll save me a little time. Also, Thanks for the link to your other video! Great job as always, appreciate it. 👍@@RodRidesWrenches
Thanks for the feedback & view. Over the the years I have also found that aftermarket brake levers can have a very significant impact on a spongy feel. I've even bought OEM levers to completely eliminate or rule out that as a problem. Just thought you should know...
@@RodRidesWrenchesthanks. Mine are OEM I've just tried this yesterday and managed to purge a load of air out of the master cylinder. Then bled it all backwards several times but still spongey... Could it be the hose?
@@frazzle657 Yes old brake lines will bulge under pressure, you may not be able to easily see it but is a large surface area expands across the hose you will get a spongy feel. Often steel braded is cheaper than OEM, you just need to get the end fittings correct.
Nah….everything here can have a failed result and you still have no clue what to do to fix it. Best way to remove air trapped in the cylinder or in any other nasty spot is to pump brake fluid backwards, through the bleed valve on the caliper. 100% succes rate no matter the situation. I tried everything in this clip and absolutely all the methods failed.
I appreciate the video and content . Thumbs up . . for me and my bikes the reverse fill works better and I don't bother with a vacuum pump. A big ol syringe the kind that doesn't have the screw in needle ...and 1/4 clear tubing to the nipple. But whatever gets you stopping ! Safe rides to all of you.
I was pulling my hair out trying to bleed my 400 ninja front brake after sucking the reservoir dry. This master cylinder traps air worse than any other I have worked with.. If you get some pressure using the finger method described in this video. If you can get some pressure on the lever. top off the fluid and install the lid with screws. Remove the master cylinder from the bars. hold it with the lever up at 12:00 oclock then do some light pumps. You will see very quickly that the lever firms right up. Wish I would have tried this earlier and save about a half bottle of fluid.. Hope this helps someone out there.
Uh, maybe this is on another video somewhere, but my rear brake was very stiff and didn't have hardly any bite. Any ideas on that? I did have some debris get caught on the rotor, but it felt abnormal before that incident.
Your seals and pistons are seized up when the seals age they stop allowing the brake pistons to move properly. Two Piece Motorcycle Brake Caliper Rebuild czcams.com/video/6QUKiY75VpI/video.htmlsi=YYoiaQYCTfUIVNyC Single Piece Motorcycle Brake Caliper Rebuild czcams.com/video/XjqgYX7tY6c/video.htmlsi=tRfMove8-egAZaJ1 I had the same thing with a KLR650 I recently purchased and rebuilt the brakes czcams.com/video/p1_d8KZa93A/video.htmlsi=xqTCvWqgb33Vvl2A Good Luck!
I have a question I have sag in my front brake lever will loosening the banjo bolts and pumping the brakes fix that sag in my front brake lever ?? it’s not soft it just comes down so far and then I get pressure high blood them already like twice
Sag is a term usually reserved for the distance your suspension moves when you sit on your bike, not the brake lever. Yes this may very much help with your issue. Additional things to think about, are you running aftermarket levers? I find these can help or hinder brake lever movement. On my Triumph GT1050 aftermarket levers absolutely changed my opinion of the brakes from the worst I've ever had to fairly decent. Other times they completely screw up the piston movement so you need to start with stock levers and go from there. It may also be time to rebuild the master cylinder. czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html
Okay, so what do you say to this: Brand new bike, I mean brand new. Set up by the dealer, bled by them, bled by myself, bled by another location, same dealer... And yet the smooshiness still comes and goes as I'm riding. Only once or twice maybe every hour around town, but golly dang, its terrifying. Like 40-50% braking power outta nowhere.
I think there is a problem with the master cylinder, seal or valve failure. Possibly an issue with the ABS if it is equipped, you did not say what make or model. Are there any TSB's on the bike's ABS system that the dealer can see? Have the dealer reach out to the manufacturer's tech line as you are probably not the only one having an issue.
@@RodRidesWrenches Sorry its a zx4-rr. It has to be the ABS. I've never owned a bike with ABS, and I don't fiddle with stuff I don't understand -not when it comes to stopping a motorcycle anyway, so I'm gonna have it looked at again. I don't even wanna ride it to the shop honestly. That feeling from the last time didn't leave me. It'll not do it most of the time, most of the time not at all, but then once a ride... surprise - there's shit in my pants!
Soft lever. Not to where it doesn't compress anymore due to interference, but FARRRR more than it did a second ago. Twice the travel, or perhaps half the braking power, with me trying to be even with my grip. And I just went out, like 7pm this evening after not riding for 3 days and it did it. I reckon I'm done with it until someone come and gets it. If someone can tow it and fix it, that'd be ideal, or if the dealership wants it but I think I'm done with it. This is how folks die. It'd just be too easy to think I've resolved it when I haven't.
@@joek81981 I am dealing with a similar problem on my 1200 VFR, lever goes soft after it sits and this system has been bled many times. I just replaced the piston and seals in the master cylinder. Seems to have been the cure.
I have two Harleys and the lever firmness is night and day different between the two. 2007 Electra Glide Standard and 2011 Softail classic. I have done the two year fluid flush as recommended, my lever and pedal on the Softail are as firm as you can get. My Electra Glide lever and peddle are always spongy with a periodic firm pull or press. Shop swapped my bars two years again same spungy feel with new lines and fluid. Any suggestions here?
Two things to consider, the brake lines are done, change them to steel braded, rebuild the master cylinders I bet someone put DOT 4 instead of DOT 5 in them at one time czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html Bench bleed them after rebuild because they can be difficult - Good Luck!
I'm switching to SS braided on my 2007 while doing my updates. Still they were changed two years ago when I had my new bars installed at the Harley shop, master cylinder was replaced three years ago
@@TheKerstingm have you extended the height of the bars a lot? Apes on them? Sometimes long brake lines like to hold onto air especially if they are over length and have excess in a loop or kicked out to the side. I have owned a lot of Harely Davidson Bikes; Softail, RoadGlide, ElectraGlide, Sportster... and found that bleeding the brakes is not easy, make sure the master cylinder is level, you may have to remove from the bike or loosen it. Some techs I know insist they bench bleed the master on the bench to ensure it is level then cap the outlet and install on the bike. I've only had to do this once on a Shovel Electra as the system was completely disassembled. One trick that sometimes works for hard to bleed systems is, after bleeding and the brake lever still spongy pull ethe lever in and zap strap it to the grip, let the bike sit overnight, preferably level or with the reservoir high, (bars tilted left). The other often touted solution is to use a syringe to force brake fluid up the bleeder valve, I've tried this a couple time and have had limited success with either of these this myself and just prefer to slow bleed with a hose attached to the bleeder, let it fill with enough fluid so that when you release the lever you are not sucking air back into the caliper, as demonstrated in the video. czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html Good Luck!
Yes I went from Stock 8" to 12". My system was spongy before that. It's not so bad that I'm worried about it not functioning, it's just so much different than my Softail. I am getting a vacuum bleeder kit to use when I swap my brake lines. I die like how you explained everything and broke it down to layman's terns to understand easier. Thanks for your input
bouyancy... air will always rise. and theres always at least ONE spot that is virtually impossible to ever actually bleed. inside the banjos, theres no way for fluid to ever actually fill the entire union. on the lower caliper ones, yes, as fluid comes from the bolt and generally the hose is emerging vertically up, but on the master... its pointing down. and the hole into the bolt can be... anywhere. if its down as well, you arent ever going to fill the entire cavity. indexing the bolt can help. cross-drilling it a bit more can help... cracking the join can sort of get it filled but... its this little overlooked spot. the design of them means there is ALWAYS a little pocket that cant be bled. if you can get double flare type fittings on braided, without the banjos... big difference. ive dodged one up with an4 aeroquip style fittings, but it isnt compliant. so what :) might get a set properly made up one day. any bike that has multiple hoses, bleed nipples. had the old gpz750 turbo... was five or seven bleed nipples. nightmare. caliper orientation, think how air wants to get out to the nipple. often have to tilt them over the other way... and for priming, i usually unbolt things and rely on gravity, bubbles like to flow UP hoses...
These concerns are related to introduction of air into the system. This isn't helping with my concern. My bike sits outside and hasn't been ridden frequently for a couple years. I bought it new and put 9k miles on it until I had an accident. The problem I have is...without any intervention both front and rear brakes turned to nothing. I went ahead and bled both ends to get firm pedal and lever. Then it sat for a month or so and the problem is worse than when I started. What is going on here? Is the rubber quality so bad now that the seals just crap out? I bought a new rear master but haven't installed it yet. Now I'm looking at a whole front brake master and caliper replacement in front to shrug off this problem. I'm reluctant to install them until I want to commit to riding more frequently. My question is... what do I need to do to slow this degradation of rubber components? Ride? Flush every month? WTH?
Your bike sits outside exposed to the elements, mainly moisture & humidity, this is the root of your evil. Brake fluid absorbs ambient moisture and turns to brown goo. This infiltrate's your cylinder, calipers and lines. Even in a meticulously maintained and ridden bike that sits in a climate controlled garage, you need to change the brake fluid every two years. My suggestion is that you buy a rebuild kit for your master cylinders and for your calipers. Clean the entire system and flush the brake lines out with brake clean as best you can or just replace them. The master cylinder will need a thorough cleaning inside, here is a video on that czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html if you have two piece calipers reference this video czcams.com/video/6QUKiY75VpI/video.html and for single piece calipers czcams.com/video/XjqgYX7tY6c/video.html The rubber seals in the brake system won't stand up to contaminated brake fluid. The rubber piston seal is also what retracts the pistons after you release the brakes. The exposed part of the piston in your caliper should be cleaned regularly and lubricated with brake lube or even just some brake fluid to keep them sealing and working. Bleeding the system without cleaning it will just result in clogs and blockage. - Good Luck!
A lot of times bleeding brakes by the pump brakes and release the bleeder . If you bottom out the piston in the master cylinder you can even on a new one ruin the seals . I always go about half of the lever or pedal travel to avoid this.
Harbor freight has a great pneumatic brake bleeder that works fantastic. Used it and as long as you don’t let the reservoir go dry you’ll been done in know time. FYI.
Makes no difference on the bleed process, it's all about the banjo bolt. Just make sure the rubber line and fittings to the master from the reservoir are not worn/leaking. There is also typically an o-ring on the plastic intake flange (looked up the name for this part, its just called the master cylinder connector, dumb name) these can easily be replaced if the master is taking on air. - Good Luck!
Sorry je doet het fout vanaf het begin. Stap 1 .haal je remvloeistof deksel er af. Stap2. haal je remklauw er af en druk de remzuigers helemaal naar binnen, ps dit mag per kant . Stap3. Gooi rem olie in het potje. Stap 4. Zuig de slang door. Dit mag met de hand of apparaat. stap 5. Nadat de remleiding vol zit, zal de remklauw zich vullen nagenoeg zonder belletjes . Herhaal dit aan de andere kant. Daarna is je rem Hart en doe je nog eenmaal pompen en kijken of er een belletje is. Klaar.
Explain where the air gets into the system. Brake fluid still flows out of the caliper whether the hose is there or not. I think you mean don't release an compressed brake lever with the bleeder valve open...
Your bleeding technique is incorrect and unnecessary. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. Your method is overly messy and unnecessary. It increases the number of steps it will actually take to bleed the system.
I remember the service manual for my 1980 Kawasaki: it said "Remove the master cylinder cover and gasket. With the handlebar level, slowly squeeze the brake lever several times. This removes air from the master cylinder." These weren't the exact words, but they told one to start by bleeding the top of the system. I would often see tiny air bubbles emerging. This saves a ton of time, as these tiny bubbles don't have to be pushed all the way through the system.
Vacuum bled my brakes not a single bubble but still a soggy lever. After hitting the caliper with a rubber mallet and repeating the bleeding process a couple times, success. Thanks for this video learned something new 👍
Ah! Rubber mallet. I have one, and I have this brake issue, too. Rubber mallet would be more effective, I imagine, than a plastic-handled tool. Thank you,
After installing steel braided brake lines on my 2018 Kawasaki Z900 RS, I had a terrible time getting the air out of the system.
I used vacuum bleeders, and everything I could think of to no avail.
What ended up fixing the problem was to fill the front brake reservoir, leave the cover off and putting a Velcro strap around the front brake lever and grip to apply the brake.
I let it sit in my garage this way over the weekend. It had firmed up considerably but still not to my liking. So I tried it again for 3 days.
It worked like a champ this time. No air at all in the front system now.
The air will gradually bubble up over time and purge itself.
It takes patience but works like a champ!
Nice video as always. I use the old fashioned bleed process to start with after cleaning out the old fluid from the m/cyl's and topping up with fresh. I then use the syringe method from the bleed nipple to inject new fluid from the calipers to the m/cyl if theres any spongy feeling still. Once completed I zip tie the levers in the activated position overnight to free up any remaining bubbles.
You do not have to undo the master cylinder bolt. No mess.
Do you ziptie them with the bleeder and the master cylinder lid closed?
@@plmason12yes I do this when I transport in my van too. The brake is always much better at the end of the journey.
Here's a tip from a friend who swears by this simple method. With the wheels off the ground, and the bleeder open, spin the wheel which will set up a vibration of the brake rotor against the brake pads and into the caliper. That vibration will break loose the bubbles. He didn't say how long to do this ( maybe that's why I haven't seen him in weeks...) but I suspect it would be until you saw the bubbles come out assuming there are any.
Performing a 50k inspection and repairs on my “new for me” Honda, I am soooo looking forward to that day I am ready to bleed the Honda ABS brake system! A few basic recollections: If the manuals state having the handle bars rotated to full lock, one side or the other, do that. When operating any pumps or levers or bleeder valves, know that rapid operation almost always will introduce air into the system as piston seals can easily succumb to ambient air pressures. SLOWLY operate control levers, bleeder valves and pump handles to avoid sucking air. Vinyl hoses are great for visuals, and famous for back-leaking air into the system; make sure the vinyl fits snugly over the bleed valve. As pointed out in the vid, keep that vinyl hose upright in order to maintain a good seal, as any drooping may easily cause a vacuum and subsequent introduction of air. Oh, and bleed valves are machined by design to a taper, and taper fits require only gentle torque pressure. Good luck; keep that master cylinder wet and ride on!
As an old, experienced, mechanic, I have been amazed at how much better brakes work with fresh fluid. After 50 years, a physics teacher explained to me, that when two liquids mix (brake fluid+water) the result is thicker. Yes temperature excursion slowly brings water into your system. Don't expect you to believe this, no one else does.
I believe you. Brake fluid that sits in an open container for over a year is suspect to me since DOT 4 absorbs water from the atmosphere and I live in a high humidity area... I also should have mentioned that you should let your brake fluid settle for at least 6 hours, brake fluid you've just brought home from the store in your saddle bag or back of your car is agitated with air.
You can use a vaccum pot to remove any air or water in the fluid when you purchase it if you want to be OCD about it, but it's better to just move to DOT 5.1. You can also replace the bleeder valve with one way valve to make this easier.
If h2o is the only problem, why dont we boil the oil, evaporate h2o and then reuse the same oil?
@us3804 DOT4 is primarily composed of Polyethylene Glycol (PEG). It degrades when heated to 70 Celsius (158F) which happens regularly under braking on a performance bike. Reusing the brake fluid is not an option since as it ages the fluid creates formic acid esters during the heat cycle. Brake fluid should be replaced and never reused.
Lol everyone knows brake fluid is hydroscopic and it draws moisture from the air. It’s not a new understanding
wasn't getting any pressure on my brake lever after bleeding right and left caliper several times. after seeing this vid and bench bleeding finally got it working again. thanks for the vid! keep up the great tips :D
Great video! I also have a 2010 VFR1200 with only 8000 km and the brakes went super mushy. I did bleed the calipers and saw and improvement, but being lazy, I stopped there. This will give me a kick in the ass to finish the job completely using your tips!
Thanks for the feedback & View!
no banjo bolt work…. just put the cap back on the master cyl, turn handlebars to the full left lock w/bike on side stand, and quickly flutter the brake lever. bubbles work their way up into the master cyl reservoir, lever gets firmer. no mess.👍
After changing the master cylinder with plunger/spring/washer/circlip, dust boot, brake line, everything in the caliper including the piston, rubber washers, dust seal, dust seal spring (all genuine Yamaha parts) on my Nissen brake for my Yamaha XT350 1991 model, I tried bleeding the brake. No luck.
Two friends, independent of each other, with a combined 60 years of experience in motorbike maintenance couldn't get it to work either. It just wouldn't build any pressure, no matter what equipment or procedure we used. The piston popped out nicely when they applied pressured air, but not when using the lever. Then one said that when bleeding just doesn't work, I could try just parking the bike, with the master cylinder at the highest point and give it a few days. I did so, but still no pressure. Due to bad weather and no garage, I had to wait another week or so, then decided to take it all apart, for the 4th. time. Before draining the brake fluid I thought I'd give it one last go. Wheeled the bike around, pulled the lever and the brakes worked! So, if all else fails, might want to try that!
Try what?
Thank you so much!!! This weekend was a headache and I wish I found your video sooner
Hi Tim, thanks for the feedback & view I hope you checked out the rest of the channel!
Thanks for the tip on bench bleeding, I replaced the brake line on my 99 Triumph Adventurer and it would not build pressure. Cracked the banjo bolt on the master cylinder and went through the process, I had pressure in no time.
Thanks again and have a great day!!
Thanks for the feedback & view! Hope you'll consider subscribing and checking out the channel for more... czcams.com/channels/O_50CcJ2oAP9mH2g_8AKlg.html
@@RodRidesWrenches I did 👍🏻
brilliant, i've been working on my bikes for 35 years but yesterday was having a completely nightmare trying to get pressure at the rear brake on my 05 ducati multistrada, the trouble is with the single sided swing arm the hose takes a terrible path from the low calliper along the under side of the swing arm and around the front of the swing arm then over and back to the m/c. i changed the m/c and line and used a syringe to try to pull fluid out of the bleed valve on the calliper, i was getting clean new fluid coming through but the lever was still totally soft, i tried tapping the line and moving the m/c about to try to get bubbles up and i was trying normal bleeding pumping the lever anbd releasing the bleed valve, all in all for hours yesterday and still couldn't get any pressure. i gave up and hoped bubbles would work their way up overnight, but this morning i still couldn't get any bubble to come out into the reservoir. in desperation i looked on youtube to see if there was anything i hadn't thought of or that i had forgotton or missed, and found your video, the tip at 5 minutes of cracking open the banjo bolt to release air trapped in the m/c made sense so i tried it, in only 2 or 3 goes i had all the air out and a really lovely firm lever, the whole thing took about 2 minutes!!!!! thank you.
Glad you found it! Check out the channel for more...
This is the simplest and best/proper technique to use on your motorcycle. Trust this method it worked like magic for my two bikes! - Thanks for another awesome vid!
Thanks for the feedback & view!
Thank you out of the 100 videos i watched this is the best one that actually explains it
I'm headed to do that now. It felt like you were talking to me lol... Great video!
I'm sure it will work for you! Thanks for the view
My nephew and his friends always used one of those vacuum bleeder tools when bleeding brakes.
Then they called uncle up to help make it work again when they filled the system with air.
What I have found is most brake lines go on some form of
‘ roller coaster ‘ ride with at least one good hill for air bubbles to rise into. If you don’t move the fluid fast enough and far enough the bubbles just keep going up the hill.
I have a daytona with an Rcs19 corsa corta MC. When I was bleeding the abs unit, I believe it pushed some air somewhere and my lever just went from super firm to super Bleh. Thankfully the brembo MCs come with a bleed nipple at the MC, so a couple of rounds of bleeding the MC tends to solve that issue. I think there's also the issue of not FLUSHING all the old fluid from your entire system. This can typically take a while if you have ABS. So I aim to at least run a 250ml bottle through the entire system, preferably 350-400ml, including the abs unit bleeds. At least at that point I KNOW my fluid is fresh and good to go.
Another great tip I picked up was bleeding the MC and the caliper just a touch after coming back from a ride where you have punished the brake in quick succession. It tends to let out the last of the persistent air bubbles.
Yamaha has a procedure, which triggers ABS system, so it pushes the fluid out...
I don't think my Brembos have a bleed nipple at the M.C. but if any of them do I'm going to feel like an idiot.
I'll go look right now.
@@Wooskii1 i've seen that nipple for the first time few weeks ago, when my friend was curious what is it (brembo MC, on KTM890)
I have the Brembo brake curse on one of my bikes (Let it sit too long, air gets in). My lever will go to the bar, no resistance. The only fix I've found (besides switching parts) is to put a rubber band or zip tie on the brake if storing it for a while, which doesn't seem right to me, but it does seem to work.
I have no idea what is happening, but other people are having the same problem on brand new bikes. No fluid leaks, the level stays the same, and the brakes are extremely nice (when they work)
Thank you Sir! Such an informative lead to troubleshoot the soft sensation.
Thanks for the view & feedback! There is a more detailed explanation of a full system bleed found on one of my recent videos here czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html
ANOTHER GREAT VID!! Thank you!!!
Thanks for the View!
Hold the clear tube above the nipple to allow the air to travel out as you pump the vacuumed unit. A better idea is pressure bleeding at the master cyl especially having abs system. Find an old lid and drill a hole into the lid. Attach a nipple to it that is sealed. Crack the calliper nipple and apply little pressure to push the fluid and air out. This works on cars too. Note: the pressure unit has to fill the master cyl at the same time to keep the level right and not to drain out the master cylinder. I’ve done this for 25 years and never had a problem and have had a better feel then factory…
I think you're right. Although, on bicycles you force fluid from the bottom to top and that seems legit.
Nice bike!! Always thought that generation of VFR was a looker.
Thanks for the feedback & View!
Doing mountain bike brakes, I would tap, see a bubble and so on for an extended time until no more bubbles appeared. Using a pad sander w/out sand paper might help also.
I have gained a nice and hard lever feeling by tightening the lever - after pumping it several times - to the handle over night and have then bled the master cylinder bleed valve and the calipers in addition.
Pressurizing the brake lines over a longer period will cause air bubbles to move to the highest point i.e. master cylinder reservoir or master cylinder bleed valve.
Used the motion pro tool , hose and pcv, works great 👍
Nice video! I've been wrestling with a spongy front brake on a dirt bike with my sons. I cant wait to try the bench method tomorrow morning..
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and to the many others who have written here with even more great ideas.
very good! kinda freaks me out to put the line off and THEN tighten the bleed screw, however.
As long as you don't mess with the brake lever and fluid is still coming out the bleeder, air can't go back in! Hydraulic pressure concours all...
Wooow! Thank you for the How To Bench bleed! It helped! Thank you!
Work exactly how you said I really appreciate cause. I've been Battle in the shit for 2 days.
Brilliant! Thanks for the feedback & View! New big motorcycle maintenance & inspection video out tomorrow!👍
Had the spongy feeling on the clutch a couple of weeks ago. It might be the air sitting on the cylinder as you described. Don't know why I got some air in the system, getting the clutch lever loose when doing a lot of travel on mountain roads, but perfectly fine when the bike was cold. I pumped the air out manually, and now it seems to be ok...
Hi Claudio, how dark was the fluid? May have just gotten too much moisture in it. Ride Safe!
@@RodRidesWrenches it's looking pretty good, not dark. It was (hopefully) changed by honda dealer about 3k km ago.
@@claudioseccia9380 maybe their was air in the line then if it was recently serviced. 👍
I guess so since now it seems to be ok. Thanks for your videos! Really really helpful content!
Very typical for clutch or brake hydraulic systems to exhibit sponginess at high mountain altitudes. The air in the system that was not noticeable at lower elevations, expands and causes real problems at higher ones. I had to bleed my Ducat’s clutch system at the master cylinder banjo bolt when this issue occurred in the mountains of CO. Fixed the problem.
Take off banjo bolt and prime the plunger then put it back on, fill the reservoir, leave open, prime bubbles out, while bleeding calipers works on my J Brake hand control
Awesome video!!!
Answered all my questions in one video…
I have no problem bleeding brakes on any bike, EXCEPT older Yamahas. For some reason they give me interminable headaches. I've used all these techniques to no avail
Awesome video! Thank you!
Good to hear! Thanks for the view & feedback!
Definitely have to invest in a stand, wheel chock, I should have purchased one when HF had them for $50😬
I had to hang my calipers to avoid any brake line or connectors make high spots, so no air can be trapped anywhere. Leave it for a day like this and squeezing the lever once in an hour made the job. No bleed needed.
HEY !!! FYI... LEFT on a "Goldwing" is split from the REAR Brake :-)
the "Front" on a Goldwing or many Honda's is ONLY on the right :-)
I bleed the masters first, till I don't see or hear any bubs..
then move to the slaves, er Calipers 🙂
and.. yea.. I need to rebuild my front and rear masters :-(
Great Vid !!!
Hi there, although the left caliper is split between front & rear brakes on most Honda linked systems you still have to bleed it, there are two bleeder vales one for each system. On the late model goldwing, like the one I am working on now, czcams.com/video/5-xmfVCqwC0/video.html the linked system to the rear actually activates BOTH front calipers so there are two bleeders on each front caliper as well as two on the rear since the front brake activation also activates the rear brake. The goldwing has the added benefit/complexity of the anti-dive system as well which required bleeding. In any case in 99% of shop manuals I have read, and every technician I have worked with prefers to bleed the system from the furthest point from the master cylinder first. Thanks for the view and let us know how your project turns out! 👍 Happy to send you a Goldwing Service Manual email me through my YT page.
I've had luck turning the handle bar full left and with the bike on the side stand. I could then tap the reservoir and along the lines while slowing squeezing the lever. A lot of air comes out and is usually the final step to get the sponginess out.
I just replaced the rear master cylinder on my R1, and couldn't figure out how I wasn't getting pressure when it's pulling fluid through the system. Will definitely try bench bleeding it tomorrow.
Seeing that brake fluid spray all over the gas tank was terrible. Also you should close the bleeder before you pull the bleed line off
Was done on purpose you could not see the spray from the banjo bolt with white shop towels in BG covering the tank. Makes no difference if you close the bleeder valve or not before taking the hose off as long as you don't touch the brake lever. Brake fluid still flows out the bleeder if the hose is there or not, air does not enter the system... Thanks for the view!
Interesting idea... to put the hose on the bleed nipple and aim it upwards... given the bubbles do not sink.
I would not have thought of that.
I did a calliper and master cylinder rebuild yesterday, but the front brakes are softer than before, though smoother as I cleaned the calliper pistons and fitted new seals.
5:45
If I do this finger trick, when I take my finger off the outlet of the master cylinder / reservoir, surely air will get back in, or have I missed a point?
Anyway, I will try to upward-pointing hose / plastic-handled driver calliper-tapping thing when I get home (after riding my bike with mediocre-at-best brakes).
Thanks.
(Scooter with floating calliper and a combined braking system secondary master cylinder for the middle pot in the Calliper. Which may, I am not sure, make this video irrelevant.)
Warped rotors can also cause a spongey lever because the rotor is pushing the brake piston back into the caliper!
interesting @ 5:00 ish re LEVEL bike... vs turning hard left to maximize/level out the brake reservoir.
On some calipers because of their position you can back feed, vacuum pump, lever pump all day and you will never get that small pocket of air out, the only way to get it out you must remove the caliper, then put something inbetween the pads so they don't come together, then start pumping the lever with the pistons verticle, then pump with them horrizontal, then on many different angles up, down, 90° left, 90° right, and as you pump the lever with every angle you will see the bubbles from that tiny air pocket come out,,,,, also don't forget to tap on the break line with a screw driver handle as you pump. On some break calipers if you don't take it off and do this you will always have a spongy lever😢😢😢😢.
Yam R1 1999, new lines and front master cylinder. Fresh dot 4, bleeding at the nipples with no success, will give ago tomorrow at the master cylinder.
How did it go?
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whats the first thing you do to car master cyinder when you take it out of the box, you bench bleed it. If you dont, like I did before the light came on, I ran a big bottle of fluid through it twice to no avail. But once I did bleed it, I filed the lines with brake fluid and five miutes later I had a full pedal that was rock solid. I did this on my grandsons kx 100 then on my klx 140 and cr250 after giving up twice. A video is coming soon
Got pressure with the finger technique took my finger off and a load of fluid drained out. Put banjo bolt back in and still no pressure. Master cylinder has been rebuilt and no leaks. Been trying to resolve this for 2 ucking days!
All brake fluid containers must have the AIR removed, before putting the fluid in the vehicle. CANS, do this, brake the seal under cap. Replace cap loosely, so the air bubbles will expand, rise and POP. All other bleeding equipment must be treated the same. The idea IS to get the air bubbles to EXPAND, RISE, and POP. IT TAKES 20 MINITS TO DO THIS. Go get a beer & wait it out. It's really worth it. I just about killed a customer not knowing this.
Thanks again for this very informative video! Is the same procedure at 5:19 performed if replacing the rear brake MC? Thanks again Rod. 👍
Yes either Master Cylinder will do.🏍
One more question if I may? Once there is sufficiate volume and removing your finger as stated at 5:41 should the handle or pedal be held down until the banjo bolt is installed? I wouldn't want to re-introduce any air returning back to the MC reservoir. I sincerely appreciate your help! Thank you Rod. 👍
@@rapaent If you hold your thumb on the master cylinder banjo bolt hole while releasing the lever as you've done up to this point to get fluid into the cylinder, you can then remove your thumb to install the banjo bolt. It is not possible to hold your thumb on master cylinder and install the banjo bolt at the same time... As long as you put the banjo bolt on quickly and do not let all the fluid in the cylinder drain out, you will not introduce more air into the master cylinder. Remember you still have to bleed the line and caliper after the master cylinder to get all the air out of the system.
Thanks once again for your help. Just got done installing the rear brake MC. Worked out great!! Thank You!! Appreciate it! 👍@@RodRidesWrenches
@@rapaent Perfect!
Would bench bleeding be recommended after installing a new line from the from the front brake master cylinder?
Yes I believe that is what I said during the demonstration of using your thumb to bring fluid into the piston chamber of the master cylinder. If you have a completely drained system. also demonstrated in this video czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html where the master cylinder is rebuilt.
What does it mean if I can lock my back wheel, but there's no progressive brake power before that point. I get virtually no stopping power until I press the lever all the way and it skids. I took the whole system off my bike, hung it vertically, and pumped with syringe up. I was thoughtful about all the angles and air pockets.. Would brake fluid on my pads/rotor cause this?
When was the last time the caliper was rebuilt or your master cylinder? czcams.com/video/6QUKiY75VpI/video.htmlsi=RcMyJitmunMFoUfe sounds like mechanical issue. Also does your bike have a linked braking system? These have additional bleed points. Good Luck
Hi mate, I'm having trouble with my piston not coming out to meet the pads. I had to replace my caliper so when I came to bleed it up there was no fluid in the system, I managed to get fluid thru and with no air bubbles in the system. But then I noticed when I press my brake the piston comes out and then retracts as it should but the problem is that the piston isn't anywhere near the pads yet.
For reference it is the rear brake on a Yamaha r6 2000 and is second hand caliper so really I should have cleaned/re sealed it I know 😂 was just wondering if you have had this problem before or know where I should start before stripping caliper or the master cylinder.
Hi Joseph, in this video I show how to bleed out a completely empty system and bench bleed the master cylinder czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html I have cued to that section. I don't really understand how this is happening to your brake unless the system has a crap load of air in it and you are not moving enough fluid into the caliper. Check it out and let me know how it went for you. Thanks for the question & view!
@@RodRidesWrenches I'll give that a watch when the kids are in bed haha but thank you for replying never mind how quick it was 👌 but yeah what you described sounds right about there not being enough fluid passing thru so I'll give your video a watch and then next time I get to the garage I'll try what I learn or just bleed the hell out of it 😂.
Once again thank you for your advice 💪
Ever figure it out? I heard an R6 owner had this problem but there were actually two bleed nipples on the rear of the R6 and that’s why they weren’t getting good pressure.
@@brad3201 yeah I just kept bleeding it thru over and over and then it finally went hard 👌
Did my brakes the other week and did almost all of things shown in this video, as this is how I've been doing the. For years but bleeding and topping up the res for literally hours did absolutely nothing. Only when I replaced the cover and membrane inThe master cylinder did it begin to build pressure. Its all done now and it passed inspection (mot in the UK) but air seems to be in the system as the lever pulls back to the bar Initially, before pumping up back to pressure. Just wondering now if the master cylinder needs a refurb, as it's had new caliper seals an d braided hoses fitted
I had the same problem with my vmax after fitting new braided hoses, brake pressure is fine but next day back to the bar, pump it up and get pressure again. Before ordering a new master cycliner rebuild kit check the bleed nipples as you might need new ones, mine were leaking a little fluid overnight, fitted new ones and all now OK.
Don't open the bleed nipples too much when bleeding as this will allow air into the system, 1/4 turn is sufficient, also apply a little copper grease to the bleed nipple threads before installing new ones as this creates a barrier that air can't get past so easily.
We live and learn don't we.
Awesome Video!! I have a 2004 Honda Goldwing Lehman Trike. My rears are drum brakes with the fronts honda oem disc brakes. I use speed bleeders along with their hose & catch drain bag. I normally lay the bag on the floor while bleeding. You mentioned holding your hose upright do to air re-entering 1:43 Should I do this on th the drum brakes as well? Thanks again..... Appreciate it. 👍
Holding the brake line vertical ensures there is always fluid at the bottom of your bleed line. Hydraulic Drum Brakes usually have at least one dual sided piston mechanism called the wheel cylinder at the top or bottom of the hub. Just be sure not to let an air gap form where the hose meets the bleeder valve when gravity bleeding. The added bonus of being able to activate the brakes to force out air while having enough fluid in the hose so no air gets sucked back in, is the best reason to do it this way.
Awesome!! Thanks for the explaination! I have one more question if you don't mind.... I'm replacing my rear brake MC on my 2004 GL1800. Do I need to disasemble it to lube the parts or will they simply get lubed during the bleeding process? I'll make sure I start out like you did at 5:20 but, with the rear brake MC. Thanks again, appreciate it.👍@@RodRidesWrenches
@@rapaentIf this is a used rear master cylinder I would order a rebuild kit and just redo it. Never be easier to do than now when it is out of the bike, but NO you do not have to lubricate it, when fluid fills the cylinder it is lubed. czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.htmlsi=nuxbmBof9yCQeCnf
If this is a used caliper, I would rebuild it and replace the seals, you don't know what the condition of them are. The space between the main fluid seal and dust seal on the piston can pack up with corrosion.
Thank You Rod! It's a new complete MC. Glad I don't have to take it apart and lube it.... That'll save me a little time. Also, Thanks for the link to your other video! Great job as always, appreciate it. 👍@@RodRidesWrenches
Ahhhh... This might be the trick i need. I even rebuilt my master cylinder and backwards bled twice and still its spongey
Thanks for the feedback & view. Over the the years I have also found that aftermarket brake levers can have a very significant impact on a spongy feel. I've even bought OEM levers to completely eliminate or rule out that as a problem. Just thought you should know...
@@RodRidesWrenchesthanks. Mine are OEM I've just tried this yesterday and managed to purge a load of air out of the master cylinder. Then bled it all backwards several times but still spongey... Could it be the hose?
@@frazzle657 Yes old brake lines will bulge under pressure, you may not be able to easily see it but is a large surface area expands across the hose you will get a spongy feel. Often steel braded is cheaper than OEM, you just need to get the end fittings correct.
You need complete full flush with abs engagement!...
Nah….everything here can have a failed result and you still have no clue what to do to fix it. Best way to remove air trapped in the cylinder or in any other nasty spot is to pump brake fluid backwards, through the bleed valve on the caliper. 100% succes rate no matter the situation. I tried everything in this clip and absolutely all the methods failed.
Same here.
I appreciate the video and content . Thumbs up . . for me and my bikes the reverse fill works better and I don't bother with a vacuum pump. A big ol syringe the kind that doesn't have the screw in needle ...and 1/4 clear tubing to the nipple. But whatever gets you stopping ! Safe rides to all of you.
I was pulling my hair out trying to bleed my 400 ninja front brake after sucking the reservoir dry. This master cylinder traps air worse than any other I have worked with.. If you get some pressure using the finger method described in this video. If you can get some pressure on the lever. top off the fluid and install the lid with screws. Remove the master cylinder from the bars. hold it with the lever up at 12:00 oclock then do some light pumps. You will see very quickly that the lever firms right up. Wish I would have tried this earlier and save about a half bottle of fluid.. Hope this helps someone out there.
lets see if this works, just bled mine dry as well on my ninja 400. LOL ill update because im struggling soo much
@@swagical303 Did it work?
Uh, maybe this is on another video somewhere, but my rear brake was very stiff and didn't have hardly any bite. Any ideas on that? I did have some debris get caught on the rotor, but it felt abnormal before that incident.
Your seals and pistons are seized up when the seals age they stop allowing the brake pistons to move properly.
Two Piece Motorcycle Brake Caliper Rebuild czcams.com/video/6QUKiY75VpI/video.htmlsi=YYoiaQYCTfUIVNyC
Single Piece Motorcycle Brake Caliper Rebuild czcams.com/video/XjqgYX7tY6c/video.htmlsi=tRfMove8-egAZaJ1
I had the same thing with a KLR650 I recently purchased and rebuilt the brakes czcams.com/video/p1_d8KZa93A/video.htmlsi=xqTCvWqgb33Vvl2A
Good Luck!
I have a question I have sag in my front brake lever will loosening the banjo bolts and pumping the brakes fix that sag in my front brake lever ?? it’s not soft it just comes down so far and then I get pressure high blood them already like twice
Sag is a term usually reserved for the distance your suspension moves when you sit on your bike, not the brake lever. Yes this may very much help with your issue. Additional things to think about, are you running aftermarket levers? I find these can help or hinder brake lever movement. On my Triumph GT1050 aftermarket levers absolutely changed my opinion of the brakes from the worst I've ever had to fairly decent. Other times they completely screw up the piston movement so you need to start with stock levers and go from there. It may also be time to rebuild the master cylinder. czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html
Okay, so what do you say to this: Brand new bike, I mean brand new. Set up by the dealer, bled by them, bled by myself, bled by another location, same dealer... And yet the smooshiness still comes and goes as I'm riding. Only once or twice maybe every hour around town, but golly dang, its terrifying. Like 40-50% braking power outta nowhere.
I think there is a problem with the master cylinder, seal or valve failure. Possibly an issue with the ABS if it is equipped, you did not say what make or model. Are there any TSB's on the bike's ABS system that the dealer can see? Have the dealer reach out to the manufacturer's tech line as you are probably not the only one having an issue.
@@RodRidesWrenches Sorry its a zx4-rr. It has to be the ABS. I've never owned a bike with ABS, and I don't fiddle with stuff I don't understand -not when it comes to stopping a motorcycle anyway, so I'm gonna have it looked at again. I don't even wanna ride it to the shop honestly. That feeling from the last time didn't leave me. It'll not do it most of the time, most of the time not at all, but then once a ride... surprise - there's shit in my pants!
@@joek81981 Soft lever down to the handlebars or hard lever and no stopping?
Soft lever. Not to where it doesn't compress anymore due to interference, but FARRRR more than it did a second ago. Twice the travel, or perhaps half the braking power, with me trying to be even with my grip. And I just went out, like 7pm this evening after not riding for 3 days and it did it. I reckon I'm done with it until someone come and gets it. If someone can tow it and fix it, that'd be ideal, or if the dealership wants it but I think I'm done with it. This is how folks die. It'd just be too easy to think I've resolved it when I haven't.
@@joek81981 I am dealing with a similar problem on my 1200 VFR, lever goes soft after it sits and this system has been bled many times. I just replaced the piston and seals in the master cylinder. Seems to have been the cure.
I have two Harleys and the lever firmness is night and day different between the two. 2007 Electra Glide Standard and 2011 Softail classic.
I have done the two year fluid flush as recommended, my lever and pedal on the Softail are as firm as you can get. My Electra Glide lever and peddle are always spongy with a periodic firm pull or press. Shop swapped my bars two years again same spungy feel with new lines and fluid. Any suggestions here?
Two things to consider, the brake lines are done, change them to steel braded, rebuild the master cylinders I bet someone put DOT 4 instead of DOT 5 in them at one time czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html Bench bleed them after rebuild because they can be difficult - Good Luck!
I'm switching to SS braided on my 2007 while doing my updates. Still they were changed two years ago when I had my new bars installed at the Harley shop, master cylinder was replaced three years ago
@@TheKerstingm have you extended the height of the bars a lot? Apes on them? Sometimes long brake lines like to hold onto air especially if they are over length and have excess in a loop or kicked out to the side. I have owned a lot of Harely Davidson Bikes; Softail, RoadGlide, ElectraGlide, Sportster... and found that bleeding the brakes is not easy, make sure the master cylinder is level, you may have to remove from the bike or loosen it. Some techs I know insist they bench bleed the master on the bench to ensure it is level then cap the outlet and install on the bike. I've only had to do this once on a Shovel Electra as the system was completely disassembled. One trick that sometimes works for hard to bleed systems is, after bleeding and the brake lever still spongy pull ethe lever in and zap strap it to the grip, let the bike sit overnight, preferably level or with the reservoir high, (bars tilted left). The other often touted solution is to use a syringe to force brake fluid up the bleeder valve, I've tried this a couple time and have had limited success with either of these this myself and just prefer to slow bleed with a hose attached to the bleeder, let it fill with enough fluid so that when you release the lever you are not sucking air back into the caliper, as demonstrated in the video. czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html
Good Luck!
Yes I went from Stock 8" to 12". My system was spongy before that. It's not so bad that I'm worried about it not functioning, it's just so much different than my Softail. I am getting a vacuum bleeder kit to use when I swap my brake lines. I die like how you explained everything and broke it down to layman's terns to understand easier.
Thanks for your input
is it the same on the rear master cylinder>?
Yes the same process will work.
bouyancy... air will always rise.
and theres always at least ONE spot that is virtually impossible to ever actually bleed.
inside the banjos, theres no way for fluid to ever actually fill the entire union. on the lower caliper ones, yes, as fluid comes from the bolt and generally the hose is emerging vertically up, but on the master... its pointing down. and the hole into the bolt can be... anywhere. if its down as well, you arent ever going to fill the entire cavity. indexing the bolt can help. cross-drilling it a bit more can help...
cracking the join can sort of get it filled but... its this little overlooked spot. the design of them means there is ALWAYS a little pocket that cant be bled.
if you can get double flare type fittings on braided, without the banjos... big difference. ive dodged one up with an4 aeroquip style fittings, but it isnt compliant. so what :) might get a set properly made up one day.
any bike that has multiple hoses, bleed nipples. had the old gpz750 turbo... was five or seven bleed nipples. nightmare.
caliper orientation, think how air wants to get out to the nipple. often have to tilt them over the other way...
and for priming, i usually unbolt things and rely on gravity, bubbles like to flow UP hoses...
it's Lever......
Nuff said
What vacuum brake bleeder are you using?
rebrand.ly/bqnb9ig
These concerns are related to introduction of air into the system. This isn't helping with my concern.
My bike sits outside and hasn't been ridden frequently for a couple years. I bought it new and put 9k miles on it until I had an accident.
The problem I have is...without any intervention both front and rear brakes turned to nothing. I went ahead and bled both ends to get firm pedal and lever. Then it sat for a month or so and the problem is worse than when I started. What is going on here? Is the rubber quality so bad now that the seals just crap out?
I bought a new rear master but haven't installed it yet. Now I'm looking at a whole front brake master and caliper replacement in front to shrug off this problem. I'm reluctant to install them until I want to commit to riding more frequently.
My question is... what do I need to do to slow this degradation of rubber components? Ride? Flush every month? WTH?
Your bike sits outside exposed to the elements, mainly moisture & humidity, this is the root of your evil. Brake fluid absorbs ambient moisture and turns to brown goo. This infiltrate's your cylinder, calipers and lines. Even in a meticulously maintained and ridden bike that sits in a climate controlled garage, you need to change the brake fluid every two years. My suggestion is that you buy a rebuild kit for your master cylinders and for your calipers. Clean the entire system and flush the brake lines out with brake clean as best you can or just replace them. The master cylinder will need a thorough cleaning inside, here is a video on that czcams.com/video/CdCa6tVqtns/video.html if you have two piece calipers reference this video czcams.com/video/6QUKiY75VpI/video.html and for single piece calipers czcams.com/video/XjqgYX7tY6c/video.html The rubber seals in the brake system won't stand up to contaminated brake fluid. The rubber piston seal is also what retracts the pistons after you release the brakes. The exposed part of the piston in your caliper should be cleaned regularly and lubricated with brake lube or even just some brake fluid to keep them sealing and working. Bleeding the system without cleaning it will just result in clogs and blockage. - Good Luck!
A lot of times bleeding brakes by the pump brakes and release the bleeder . If you bottom out the piston in the master cylinder you can even on a new one ruin the seals . I always go about half of the lever or pedal travel to avoid this.
Harbor freight has a great pneumatic brake bleeder that works fantastic. Used it and as long as you don’t let the reservoir go dry you’ll been done in know time. FYI.
Every bike I see has the reservoir on master cylinder not a external reservoir.
Makes no difference on the bleed process, it's all about the banjo bolt. Just make sure the rubber line and fittings to the master from the reservoir are not worn/leaking. There is also typically an o-ring on the plastic intake flange (looked up the name for this part, its just called the master cylinder connector, dumb name) these can easily be replaced if the master is taking on air. - Good Luck!
I attacked the wrong side first. idk what I'm doing.
Thanks for the feedback & view, I have a new video out Saturday, hope you will check it out!
👍😊
Still soft after bleeding master cylinder :/
Still spongey
Sorry je doet het fout vanaf het begin.
Stap 1 .haal je remvloeistof deksel er af.
Stap2. haal je remklauw er af en druk de remzuigers helemaal naar binnen, ps dit mag per kant .
Stap3. Gooi rem olie in het potje.
Stap 4. Zuig de slang door. Dit mag met de hand of apparaat.
stap 5. Nadat de remleiding vol zit, zal de remklauw zich vullen nagenoeg zonder belletjes .
Herhaal dit aan de andere kant. Daarna is je rem Hart en doe je nog eenmaal pompen en kijken of er een belletje is.
Klaar.
Don't bother bench bleeding, just reverse bleed your system.
if you pull the hose with brake fluid in it, off of the bleeder before you tightened the bleeder...start over. Fail.
Explain where the air gets into the system. Brake fluid still flows out of the caliper whether the hose is there or not. I think you mean don't release an compressed brake lever with the bleeder valve open...
You are going to ruin the paint job on that bike by spraying brake fluid all over the tank, etc..
Your bleeding technique is incorrect and unnecessary. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. Your method is overly messy and unnecessary. It increases the number of steps it will actually take to bleed the system.
So are you going to share the correct technique or did you just come here to sh*t on his video?
Here's a tip to bleed calipers. Pump the brake lever as fast and hard as possible. That will shift bubbles better than hitting your caliper.