Why do Guitar Players INSIST on being Even DUMBER?
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 05. 2024
- "Magical" tubes! Where subtle differences can ONLY be heard by the SUPERIOR musician who plays in front of cranked amps at every opportunity! Are the rest of us missing something? Or are guitar players just nuts? Let me know what YOU think!
Tracked using the amazing Kali LP-UNF www.kaliaudio.com/lp-unf
Get them at these Affiliate Links: www.thomann.de/intl/kali_audi...
sweetwater.sjv.io/jr7ojP
Proudly sponsored by Kali Audio!
Love the show? Click the JOIN button, become a Channel Member! Get exclusive live streams, and special emojis and badges! czcams.com/users/spectresoundst...
Join the SMG Discord! Share mixes, get feedback, make better records!
/ discord
About Spectre Sound Studios:
I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
We've covered Moon on the Water, played Bias FX, given you the absolute best in Stupid Musician Texts, ranted & raved about bass guitar, and this channel is where The Eagle has Landed.
Everything you've wanted to learn about recording Hard Rock & Heavy Metal can be found right here on this channel!
I also respond to your comments & questions: The best make it into the SMG Viewer's Comments series of videos. Loads of fun, lots of laughs.
Thanks for checking out my channel & please subscribe!
I have a degree in electronics engineering and I’ve been servicing tube amps for a decade. When people ask me which tubes they should buy, I always tell them to get the cheapest ones. It’s not going to affect the record sales, so save some money and use it to buy more beer. The beer is more likely to make it sound better
Amp builder here. In an amp that can use either tube, they topology of the circuit itself must be changed to make them optimized for each tube type. El34 and 6l6 are wildly different types of tubes. Any tonal variations you may hear are NOT THE TUBE, but the amplifier circuit itself…
What does this say for the people who claim to hear the difference between tubes when only the tubes are changed?
Do people who swap tube type usually somehow also try to change the topology of the circuit?
As an amp builder, do you receive requests from customers to modify an existing amp's circuit to suit the tube?
Sounds like a reasonable observation. What amps do you build, Corey?
Tubes are dead... get over it.
@@prosatanos1991generally the change in tone is due to the old tubes drifting from the ideal bias point or going microphonic. It's a pretty subtle change.
So it's just two different ways to accomplish the same thing?
“Like that Mike Judge Documentary” I died, that was so funny!!!!🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼🤣
Oh, no, I can’t tell the difference over the Internet on a phone, I can tell when when I’m standing in front of the amp and can see the tubes. 😂
I mean, it’s well documented that once recorded through a mic’d signal chain, differences get minimized. Now, if you think every amp sounds exactly the same in the room, that’s more a comment on your ears. Now el34 and 6l6 tubes are damn near irrelevant, but different circuits sound different.
Yes, and the 6L6 tubes smell a little more pronounced in the Pinene area. 😂
and youtube sound...
@@SaleBSGN yeah. But for some reason I can hear the difference when compressor enabled or disabled on compressors demo, even watching CZcams from phone. But I don't hear any difference in compression over el34 and 6l6 in this video. Or slightly shift in frequency response.
And sometimes when I'm recording something to measure the difference in tubes or other components I can't hear the difference from a raw file playing through the monitor's.
Maybe if the difference significant, you can hear it within a shit mp3 through crap in ears and it does not require hifi audio system in special environment. And anyway listeners would use crap in ears with their phones transmit data via Bluetooth protocol from the streaming platforms most of the time
@@AndriiHryhoriev Out of all the clips, there was only one that sounded a little different to me (Clip B, edge of breakup). My hearing also sucks so it could be my ears playing tricks on me. What would happen if you added Clip A to Clip B phase reversed? Would it reveal anything or be dead silent?
I think you are missing out on how tubes can be treated.
Before use , I gently place the 12ax7 tube on a 400ml can of San Marzano Tomatoes.
This really boosts the mid compression boost because the Lycopene in the Tomatoes resonates with the Alluminium in the can and this massages the Barium inside the Tube.
This process is called R.L.F.A
Resonant
Lycopene
Frequency
Alignment
Your welcome
The real question is, can you prove it? do you have different frequency response graphics while all the rest of variables remain the same?
what the eff?
@SaludInformada
I'm just fuckin around, Dude , honestly I'm not serious.
Analogue or Digital it really doesn't matter. Meshuggah is my favourite Band and they use Digital and they are just brilliant to see live
@genevai2893
I was just trying make a joke.
I don't think gear really matters anymore.
But I am preparing a video to test if putting a 12ax7 on a tin of tomatoes really makes a difference.
LYCOPENE AND SUBSCRIBE 😉
I’ve learned the hard way to never guess, just sit back, read the comments, and enjoy to sweet, sweet gatekeeping…
Pretty sure Jim Lill already ran the tubes thing into the ground. The people still fighting it are like ostriches with their heads in the ground.
Sick ostrich?
@@Ran-tan-tanAllegedly.
Heads in the sand. 😂😂😂
You're being horribly unfair to ostriches. Unlike guitarists, they don't actually stick their heads in the sand.
@@Ran-tan-tan still need two people, maybe three
I just had special pickups made out of tonewood and I can definitely tell that my wallet is much lighter.
great statement. I need to start saying this.
Average Gibson PAF owner XD
Awaiting the screams of 'You proved me wrong so you must be cheating!' 🤣😂🤣 or even, 'you are using a different unicorn fart to me, if you had MY unicorn fart it would smell so much sweeter!'
That was the LAST test! :p
Glen should sell bottled Unicorn Farts , there’s a market
"You just used EQ/compression to make them sound exactly the same. Do not question why I'd say that there is a difference worth paying for when one could actually just EQ/compress and get the same result."
The next Spectre Digital plugin: Unicorn Fart. Glen should even use ridiculous descriptors for various settings.
This idea is likely just vaporware, though.
I mean, he's using identical clips filmed at different angles.. you can clearly tell by the facial movements of the guitar player.. they're identical, at different angles.
Forget coffee, Glen yelling at me is my wake me up.
Actually, there is such a thing as a stupid question. I was watching a football game when my friend came in and asked how much longer the game would run. I told her that it was the third quarter, to which she replied “How many quarters are there in a football game?”. oi
I convinced my mother they where going to station player’s in the stands to catch home runs.❤
A quarter is 25 right? Hahahahaha I'm kidding
Some high school games have a fifth quarter that doesn't count for the victory but gives a chance for second and third string players to have some time in a game.
Once explained it's less funny, like any joke. But "There are no stupid questions" is only half the phrase, the rest is "there are only stupid people." So when someone says there are no stupid questions they are implying the person is stupid. Haha.
It depends on the setting. In a situation where you are trying to teach people, then yes, there should be no such thing as stupid questions as the goal is to get people comfortable to speak up when they are not getting something. You don't want people to keep quiet out of shame, that's how some people stay illiterate.
At 750k subscribers you should invite a couple of these commenters and make a myth buster extravaganza video, where you make tests together about tubes, tonewoods, pickups etc with methodology that is deemed acceptable by everyone and you listen together at the end while nobody knows which track is which. Would pay to watch their faces! Seriously!
Hey I am listening on my LP 6s too! I love them :) Yes i did hear a small variation in the first clips, but in the full mix, even though I have been at this audio lark for decades, I would only have noticed if it was pointed out. You are totally right here Glen, what ever difference there is is not worth even considering. Moving the mic half an inch would be far more noticeable. Thank you for trurning off the FN gas light we have all been dazzled by all these years. Great work!
Were you running tubes hard enough for them to distort? Mike Soldano has said numerous times that there is very little noticeable difference between power tubes if they aren’t distorting. The differences apparently become more pronounced if you crank the hell out of them. Be great to see a follow up test for this
The upper-lower-middle mids are so beautifully compressed in the crispy punch crunch low end of the smooth clear highs. All thanks to the tube swap!
😂
Upper lower middle mids also knows as 666 hertz
It was warm and full in the 1k range with a peppery bouquet at the front and a smooth grassy finish with notes of burnt almond.
@@stolenlaptop it's the metal frequency
Interesting, I preferred the other tubes myself. I'm getting more of a semi-rounded bloom in the harmonic structure of the lower 3/7ths of the mids while the higher end of the spectrum has a glassy, trapezoidal smoothness that darts but decays quickly.
Edge of Breakup... Did you do an edit in the middle of each clip to swap tubes? In the high gain tones, the difference was surprisingly apparent. More bass, less mids on Clip B. Differences that could easily be compensated for with a little bit of EQ.
I have a Fender DeVille that's so loud I never turn it up past 2. A guitar player friend of mine suggested swapping the 6L6 power tubes for EL84s and yellowjackets. They didn't do much to reduce the volume. But they DID fail quite noticeably after only a few uses when my horrid guitar playing was suddenly replaced by a loud buzz. The worst part is, that loud buzz was an improvement over my playing... ;)
Jokes on you Glenn! Those aren't Snot rags......😂😂
Are those sad tissues or happy tissues? 😂
@@Funkybassuk 😆
😄👍
FINALLY! A test that backs up what Blackstar Amps said MONTHS ago about the AMP products. That the change in tone between the tube simulators is ONLY an EQ that THEY put in. NOT that the different tubes change the sounds. From what little I have researched (ADD doesn't help) the difference in the tubes is the power output which will change the "break up" point
Hey, I absolutely felt a difference between the clips!! The camera angle! Well, good job as always, and f u Glenn! ❤
Glen hello I have a question. I just bought ssl2 interface cause want to have a good DI catch using hi-z and the 4k console sim it has, do you think that also adding in front of it the neve RNDI will help more or it will just add too much “color” to the guitar signal? Thanks.
GLENNNN! I'm thinking of buying some BV-25s for some heavy rhythm tones and am wondering about ohms. What's the difference between 8 and 16 ohms? What do you reccomend? Thanks for your time!
If I had to guess:
Clean - A was 6L6, and B was EL34.
Edge of breakup - A was EL34, and B was 6L6.
Lead/high gain - A was EL34, and B was 6L6.
Mix - A was EL34, and B was 6L6.
Basing this off my experiences switching power tubes in the Two-Notes Wall of Sound. When using the Wall of Sound, I thought I heard more unpleasant frequencies with EL34s, so that's what I'm basing my decisions on. And I thought 6L6 had a less harsh top end.
I did not use a phone speaker, I used decent headphones. I love these blind tests. Please do more!
I got the same results albeit a different way; I thought I could hear a difference in the midrange.
@hhaste he said in the video they have been re-amped.
I think you are really close! At least 3 out of 4. Good Ears! You get the cork sniffing, tone snob stamp of approval. 🦇
@hhaste he used a re-amp box. So it is the exact same performance. But Glenn did this to show differences are minimal at best. It's just fun to play along.
@@MrJingles021 Oh ok, thanks for explaining. I'm not too familiar with guitar terms, I haven't played in many years.
I don't know which tubes are which, but i noticed a super small amount of lower mid beefiness in the B clips, either its more lower mid or less higher stuff, I wouldn't buy a DIFFERENT amp to get that sound, but if i didn't have a amp and i knew for sure that it was tube based, I might lean in that direction, i definitely wouldn't bother having two sets of tubes for that difference though,
I play through plugins anyway, cause a dual rec won't fit in a backpack like a laptop can, so probably not buying one any time soon,
again i didn't notice anything in the first tests, but there were nuanced differences between the breakup/distorted bits that it did make me go back and see if i noticed them a second time,
Glennnn!!!
You frosty Canadian bastard! I appreciate your videos more than you will ever know. Thank you for saving me money. I’m getting better tones with the tools I already have. Even it’s a 5% difference, your advice is measurable and solid. Cheers Glen and F you!!!
PS, I love the console videos. I would love to see more videos about how working on a console can improve some of our workflows and save time (and prevent carpal tunnel).
Much love and respect from Valparaiso, IN, USA
John Mick
One great addition to these blind tests would be flipping the waves of one of the clips and play them at the same time, so that the real difference is heard (which would be veeeeery little and will sound almost in mute). Great vid as always Glen!
I'd bet that's gonna be in the follow up video.
Honest question, I get how the tubes are not making much of a difference in a recording setting but would that translate 1:1 with what someone playing through their signal chain in a bedroom or at band practice would hear? Would the headroom differences of different tubes inmpact the tone they produce at different volumes? Thanks!
This is the main reason, I dare to guess, why people prefer some tubes only. For the recording, you can eq pretty well, and you sound in a mix, rather than alone. When you practice or play for fun, you hear your guitar more, it is louder if not the only instrument you hear. And through the cab, you hear what you play. This is what is the most important - you need to like what you hear, to enjoy the process, it must be something making you want it more, repeat, get better at. Imagine if the strings were razor sharp and you couldn’t play for more than 10 minutes, cuz your fingers would be cut and start bleeding, but until these 10 minutes it is bearable. Would you like to play it the next time? Same with me and 6l6 - just don’t like hearing those. I forced myself to play, cuz I wanted to practice and have at least some fun, but when I just bought the el34, I immediately sold the 6l6 and now I have what I had always wanted, you know - “that sound”. It might not be drastically different, but just enough for me to like it much and much more, and prefer it to the other. When you are close to your cabinet, believe it or not, you hear it. After this stage, when the sound has already gone through the air medium, to the microphone, then digitalised and arrived to you daw, it doesn’t matter that much, though still the difference I can hear even there. The thing is, there you’ll eq anyway to achieve the sound you want, so in the end it won’t matter much, but I still dare to say, on a case by case basis, you won’t always equalise one tubes to the other so much that you’ll not hear the difference even in the mix. It will be there, and you, knowing this difference yourself in the real world, will still be able to tell there is one. But, as I said, perhaps, not all the time.
No. Over all four clips I couldn't hear any real differences. The only time I could really hear any difference was in the first two clips on the clean channel. That was just a minor grainy/gain like sound. So my guess is A - 6L6 and B - EL34.
Great video G! I can't wait for the follow up. Also Z I love the new blind test bit. That was hilarious!
Keep up the great work all and Rock on 🤘🔥🧡🤘😮
Always learning new stuff from you Glenn. Keep rockin and Fuck you! Greetings from the Philippines 😁
Re: re-amp box. I've actually been using the Guitar Rig 7 plug-in that you had recommended on your channel a while back, along with your IRs sometimes, depending on what I'm doing.
To do this, I'm going straight through a Focus-rite 212 gen 5 box, which basically records the direct signal from the guitar. and then Guitar Rig processes my signal on the DAW. So my question is, is that enough or does the re-amp box offer more benefits in signal integrity?
If you don't have any physical gear (it sounds like you aren't using it in this process), then you don't need a re-amp box. Just take the DI signal that you would have sent through the re-amp box and apply amp sims/IRs to it again.
As far as signal integrity, they are supposed to be as transparent as possible.
Only use the re-amp box if you need to send the guitar DI through physical gear and back into your DAW through DI (like after a compression pedal or wah pedal you like or something before going into guitar rig) or through a microphone recording a cab.
Hey man I have a question. I have seen your opinion on the marshall chode 25 and I see your point. I tried connecting the audio out from a headphone jack (3.5mm) on the amp, to a sound system I have and the sound is a bit better. I imagine there is a bit of "tone" "escaping because it's a 3.5mm instead of the 6.something mm but what's the difference more scientifically? Just curious.
Also I love your videos ❤
I was skeptical on getting a tube amp, but I found a Peavey Vypyr 120w with a 12ax7 and 4 6L6s. As someone who has played solid states for 7 years I’ve come to realize there is a difference, but it’s not tone (unless it comes to distortion clipping in SS). I’ve noticed the tube amp response almost faster in feel. I did a test against my Marshall MG and Hughes and Kettner Warp 7. The tube amp had a 0.003 response while the MG was 0.001 & the H&K was 0.009. I don’t know if actual tubes themselves actually change much sound. My amp came with JJs and I don’t plan on swapping them anytime soon. Also I’ve noticed the obvious difference the tube amps have are dynamics in room “feel” bigger /clearer sounding without clipping harshly. I however play with metric fuck ton of gain (I make deathcore) and still think Plugins are just the better option. If you can find a tube amp for $200 like I did then go for it, but definitely don’t spend an arm and a leg
What website does Glenn use to buy tubes? I need new ones because my amp isnt as loud as it used to be.
might be in my head but i sorta felt like there was a slight mid-boost on set B? but like so super slight, and of course you can only hear it not mixed lol.
Hey Glenn, I’m watching your old videos about reamping. Can you make an updated version if there’s any new hardware or techniques you’ve learned over the years. I haven’t bought a reamp box yet but want to learn more. I’m a guitar player so talk slow and in American English. Thanks. 🤣🤘🏽
Hey Glenn, watching your video I noticed that you got rid of your KS Audio monitors. Any particular reason for that? completely random question but just wondering... :)
I remember Anderton's doing a video at Blackstar comparing the same amp with different output tubes and they couldn't hear the difference, and when they asked Blackstar what the difference was they just said that one has 6l6's and that one has el34's. The voice of an amp is pretty much entirely in the preamp, the power amp is just there to make the preamp louder. Tube selection usually comes down to availability or power requirements rather than for reasons of tone.
Hey Glen, I have a question regarding studio monitors. I have a pair of old Meyer Sound HM-1 I just wanted to get your opinion on whether they are good or if I should look for a different pair. I mostly record my own stuff to share with friends and listen to myself play. I live in a small place and do not have the space for speaker cabs and do not really want to do everything through headphones.
Aren’t Meyer hi fi speakers? Fwiw, I always want monitors. “Honest” is better than “flattering” when it comes to mixing
@@SpectreSoundStudios Okay, thank you. I haven't been around long but man I am loving the videos.
Having used these myself, I can hear a suttle difference when they are distorted and solo, but I could never tell the difference in a mix.
Haha, told ya
Hey Gleen, are there postives/negatives to using an amp's line out to record?
Hey Glen what are your thoughts on the Art Pro MPAII/VLAII in 2024 ? Do you still have/use them? I picked up both in 2021 and love them. I’ve been thinking about changing the stock Chinese tubes but have been hesitant due to how impossible it is to tell the difference between tubes in your amp comparisons. What are your thoughts, are (insert brand) ax7’s better than China ax7’s in that application? GFYM GLEN! 🤟
Great comp. Save your money on tubes!
Very hard to tell. Great recordings and ToneZ on all of them!
Just a guess
Clean
A = 6L6
Breakup
B = 6L6
Lead
B= 6L6
Full mix
A = 6L6
That’s what I thought as well
Did we just become best friends!
😄
@@StudioAmpCaptures LOL, the difference between them is pretty obvious, but apparently we have magic fairy dust ears
@@kennethwilson1984 I turned up my fairly large P.A system very Loud. Tried to hear and feel the 6L6 GOODNESS!!!😀 high end clarity.
@@StudioAmpCaptures Dutch and Dutch 8Cs here
Can you do the same thing with preamp tubes? I would like to see those differences/non-differences. Does replacing the 12ax7 in V1 (or elsewhere) with a 5751 actually help clean up the rhythm channel on that 6505+ 112 you have?
Yeah, they make a big difference if switching types of tubes. You can use a tube with less output in V1 you'll change the headroom of the other tubes and the way they interact. If you really want your clean channel CLEAN this is a good thing to do.
No clue what this video is about but man, that guy playing the guitar is incredible!
Heard a very slight difference in the high mids on the crunch clips, the other three clips sounded exactly the same.
I modified a 60s PA amplifier into a clean guitar/bass practice amp a few years ago. It's equipped with two EL84 power tubes. The typical saying about EL84s is that they're "midrange-y" and thus not suitable as a bass amp. Well, this one works and sounds like a charm.
I heard the slightest difference in the full mix on the palm muted chuggy notes, but nothing noticeable. I'd say the 6L6 were Clip A because that's what I've used in my amp for over a decade now and that sounded more like my tone than the other one, but they weren't much different at all and I'm probably just hearing a difference that doesn't exist.
6l6 love to CHUG!!
There is no such thing as a stupid question?
Why does the sun come out during the day and not at night when it is really needed?
Listening on Mac laptop it seemed like version A in the breakup, solo, and full mix were a tiny bit brighter, but overall the tones seemed very similar. Based on the claim there is no way I could say which tube is which. Seems like if there is any real difference a slight treble boost on B would get them close to identical. Looking forward to the frequency analysis to see how my ears did.
Hey Glenn can we get a null test with these tracks? I’d like to hear exactly what’s being canceled or not. The only clip I think I heard a difference in was edge of breakup. Can’t put my finger on what I thought I heard different. Could have been just head games. But I certainly couldn’t tell you which tube is which. Hell apparently most of us couldn’t even tell you if it even is tubes at all! Previous tests have only proven that.
As for the null test, it just seems to me that technically there would have to be some difference. Whether that’s a perceivable difference or not, well I highly doubt it.
My experience input - swapping tubes in the same rectifier circuit shows a very minimally noticeable change in tone. But on a rectifier Road King - which has room for both El34 and 6L6 tubes in the same head - with special tweaked circuit path for both - and the ability to tell each channel exactly what combo of tubes to use? It is much more noticeable when you go between the 2 FOR SURE!
Was the amp used a fixed bias type? I've heard that your bias hot or cold can influence tone. Perhaps that is what people think they are hearing when they swap tubes on an amplifier? Not the tube type itself. Rather that the amp is actually biased correctly after having a tech do a proper swap. Over time the bias can supposedly drift. Just thinking out loud in the comments.
Its most likely what happens to most people claiming to have a better sound after they change tubes.
It's funny you ask that because I'm going to use the word that Glenn just made fun of. But first, I want to be clear on some things. "Tone" is kind of loaded term. When most of us talk about guitar tone, we mean the overall sound. That includes volume level, gain level, the frequency spectrum, etc. Some people like to split hairs and say that tone only refers to the frequency spectrum. That just makes the conversation a little labor intensive. I think what we are all trying to achieve is a certain sound, and to get that sound, variables like input, output, and compression all have a roll. The bias on a tube amp is is pretty important because it dictates the headroom of the amp, so the hotter the bias, the sooner the amp will distort and compress. In a real world setting that is super important, but in the studio, there is a simple fix for that. Lower the volume on the amp, and turn it up in the mix. I think a lot of the arguments Glenn gets are from people who don't just sit in the vacuum of a studio, which is the perspective that Glenn is coming from.
Oh so now it's the bias? Hmmm. Let's move goalpost again.
@@bassyey Lol, they are just asking a question, and a very valid one at that. That's like saying, change the strings, but don't tune them. So the question is, did he get matched sets of tubes? Did he bias the tubes, or did he just slap some tubes in there and say "fuck it."
@@bassyey Not moving the goalpost at all. I would consider it to be a parallel subject of consideration. What if any difference in tone might one experience based upon how the tubes are biased? I've heard of people tweaking with fixed bias amps so that they can run them 'hotter' and claiming that it makes a difference in how the amp sounds and performs. It's within the realm of scientific inquiry as far as I am concerned.
Yes... Very tiny difference... B sounds more like the description... My compressor, are tape compressors. Not the peddles... I don't think they know either.
I generally think of the broadcast compressor; when I approach that concept. I'm still trying to figure out what the difference is between a auto tune and a noise gate.... What is the difference?
Ready to be humbled...however, gut feeling lead me to these choices relatively quickly.
Clean
A- 6L6
B - EL34
Breakup
A- EL84
B - 6L6
Hi-gain Lead
A- 6L6
B - EL34
Mix
A- 6L6
B - EL34
🤷♂
GLENN!!!!! Please tell me your going to null those first 3 tests so we can 'hear' all that amazing 'tone' shift between the two!!
I nulled the poor 192kbps audio from this video and it has some difference, though in the clean take the difference sounds exactly like the clip itself, I could not manage to gain match them to a point where there was silence, and the distorted ones have distorted distortion for difference. Maybe the original wavs null better.
GLENN! I have a 2002 Golf 1.9 TDi, the thing's been great for so many years but now I got some weird knocking, BANGING even sound in the back-right everytime i take a left corner and hit a minimal road imperfection. I've checked the whole suspension and it's rock solid. Even took it to a mechanic to take a look at it. He changed some bushings but nothing has changed.
It still bangs. Decided to change the struts myself, convinced they were the culprit. Nope, still bangs. And the old struts were still good. I took it to another mechanic and he found nothing wrong. Car still bangs, might i say even louder, like something is loose or is gonna come off. I don't drive the thing, IT drives me nuts. Heck, it even passed inspection.
Wtf do i do with it? Car sounds like a bouncing toolbox. Already ran out of ideas. Any ideas Glenn?
Ball joint on the control arm, maybe? or Sway bar/endlinks? I had strut clunk on my car, which I would have assumed it was, until you said you replaced them.
Is the tune in the full mix a whole song? if so what is it cause i like it.
would you be able to take both power tube tests and line them up and phase invert one to hear what differences are isolated?
Glen, have you ever tried a ksr pa50 with a modeler or preamp pedal? That's in my sights right now.
I was shocked, but I did hear a difference in the clean tone. That being said, with no experience experimenting with power tubes, I would only be guessing which was which. B sounded a little warmer to me, so my guess is that was the EL34. That said, once you added the distortion, it was negligible, and in the full mix, there was no difference.
So, i did notice a difference but like 10% clip A was over all more treble heavy which i asociate with a plexi and those have el34s. So i will put my flag down El34s Is Clip A and Clip B is 6L6 im actually curious if im correct.
Wow. As someone who hasn't been a fan of EL34 amps in the past, this blows me away. I guess I just don't like Marshall amps and their tones. Maybe I'll go back and rethink that Peavey 6534 or the EL34 5153. Thanks Glenn!
The difference is in the circuit not in the tubes 👍
One clip definitely sounds more "marshall", the other more "Fender".
Listening on my TV speakers, I couldn't hear any major differences in the isolated clips or the full mix that I can't explain away by you priming me to listen for differences.
All the clips except the last with overdrive: clip a - 6l6, clip b - el34, I guess in the overdrive clips those are switched, so clip a - el34, clip b - 6l6, but I am from my iPhone speakers and 1/4 sound volume on it. I usually perceive el34 as warmer and fatter tone, 6l6 as lifeless, crying, slim, icy-cold tone. I think I heard the same here, but it is better for me to hear it again through my akg.
I had to use my studio headset, but i did hear B was a little brighter, but it is so minor that it's practically unnoticeable unless you're actually looking for a difference. To be honest, it could just be in my head hahaha.
I couldn’t tell you exactly which tubes were which, but the second solo clip sounded a little different then the first. Not bad, nothing really super noticeable, just felt a little more rounded, so to speak. Second clip of the metal track the guitar sounded “spongy”, didn’t quite have the same bite. Neither had enough difference to justify changing tubes or anything crazy like that, they just had their own musical qualities. Both sounded amazing regardless
"Spongy" would be compression you are hearing. Less dynamics in the amplitude. Good ears, shhh don't tell Glenn you can hear it.
There's a slight difference in high end in clean clip A which makes B sound like it has more low end. But the difference is far more subtle than any EQ you're going to apply in a mix, and generally would be obliterated by any spin of the amp EQ. Once you start to add some distortion this difference is hard to hear (break-up sounds like A | B flipped), and once you get to the mix it's indiscernible. As a player, I long for the day when this tube difference is my greatest limiting factor.
I don't know what or how it was set up but B had a more bass tone even on the Metal Mix but I am only confused on the mix because I have done some where my Legacy VL100 sounded thin and lost in a mix with 6L6 in it but Brighter and more useful in the mix with EL34 s in it but it would also depend on my guitar,pickups ect on what the outcome was .. Now as a DiMarzio player for 40 yrs my JEM could sound good either way , my RG550 sounded fuller than my Jem but fr was pick ups more than amp.. Now I am not battling with tubes on my EVH Iconic now its more about the pickups and what I am after tone wise.. My two Telecasters with the Richie Kotzen setup sound amazing my JEM sounds amazing but my Ernie Ball Wolfgang I need to change settings but in the end a nice amp adds a great bit to sound but the guitar and pickups and playing changes with each guitar and how it comes out .. this is why I don't use active pickups because I feel I don't have the same control anymore maybe that's me too but it has served me well to dial in for each guitar and only buy the amp that gives me the room to actually dial in my sound ..
It is a fact that different tube types have different S-curves, compression, resonance, and harmonic generation characteristics. Whether they can be identified in a blind test is another matter. It depends a lot on how hard they are driven, but the differences in the clips here seem very subtle.
My understanding is EL34's do indeed compress more than 6L6GCs, and have a more gradual S-curve. Like KT66, I think EL34 also have less electrical resonance due to the higher current draw, but they create more "swirl" that guitarists like for lead sounds, but that can lead to runaway overload due to the unaligned grids, which often caused catastrophic failures in earlier higher plate V Marshalls.
All Beam Tetrodes are a KT (Kinkless Tetrode) design with aligned grids. By nature of design, they generate less 3rd harmonic than Pentodes, but can generate more intermodulation distortion under certain conditions.
From what I can make out in the overdriven clips, I'd guess A is the 6L6GC. It sounds a bit more open in the midrange.
Well, it's also how they clip. Do they clip symtricall, or asymmetrical? With asymmetrical clipping, at "edge of breakup" which they went wayyyyy past here, you'll get that glittery tone which is half clean on the A wave and Clipped on the B wave. The EL34 don't want to clip as easily and do that "tube compression" thing we call "sagging". The voltage to the plate and bias effects that however. Can you hear it in a mix? If you are John Mayer, yes. If you are John Petrucci no. A complex mix and high gain wash out subtleties.
all these differences are way way more subtle than just dial the eq of your amp. no one who listen in the public will say "woah I really ear the electrical resonance of the tubes, it must be a 6L6" . stop caring about these infime detail . even the engineer in the studio doesnt care about this when he mixes a track
@@aether3395well, you can't EQ the compression because the tube is out of headroom, nor can you EQ the magical "asymmetrical clipping". The music consumer doesn't care, the engineer doesn't care, but if the player cares then whatever inspires you to play better may be worth it. What we are really talking anout here though, is the classic Fender Vs. Marshall debate. Your ears prefer what your ears prefer.
@@nunninkav5307 you don't understand my point. the subtle compression or the subtle asymmetrical clipping between two tubes is not significant, dial the eq of your amp impact way way way more your sound than these subtles things. like in the video, all theses differences are so subtle you litteraly cant hear any differences whatsoever, it makes no senses spends times arguing about when the eq , gain, presences, pedal you uses , mic you uses for recording impact 100 times more your sound.
The only thing tubes change is the headroom (when the breakup happens) in the power amp. Not the tone. And given that high-gain amps make their distortion in the pre-amp and not the power amp, and when recording high gain guitar we never crank the power amp hard enough to saturate it, tube type is irrelevant.
Power tubes do add clipping when cranked, on really old recordings they had to crank it to get some clipping since there was nothing else available.
We are lucky that we have all the tools available today to give us what ever clipping we prefer without busting out our ears.
A lot of metal players don’t even distort with them preamp tubes, if they bother to use a tube amp at all, seen a lot of gain staging going on in front of the amps, probably because it is more reliable than pushing the tubes. 🤣
Allthough, unreliable can be fun to play with too, like germanium fuzzes, but randomly some times these transistors can be to hard of a fight.
Clip B sounded a bit louder but if it was indeed louder it is such a small difference that it's not worth it. I guess if there was a massive diference in how much gain can you get with a particular set of tubes you could make the argument but a hotter set of pickups or.. I don't know... turning up the gain knob will probably do the job. Hell if you want gain you can get a decent overdrive/distorsion pedal for a minuscule fraction of the cost of either tubes or pickups
Listening through decent headphones, I couldnt hear a difference between clean or metal clips. The other two, the second one has some audible overtones in the midrange. Sounds just a tad fuller. Nothing deal breakerish amd could just as easily be placebo, I look forward to the video where you reveal it's the same tubes all along. But yeah, clip b on the middle two sounds infinitesimally better. Punchy, yet warm.
I see those Kali monitors Glenn, how about you send me the Adam monitors behind them, the ones in the soffits getting sad because they're lonely? I promise to never let any bass players anywhere near them!
God DAMN that's a noice PRS!!!! Pickups look interesting too!
I wonder tbh how much does a Mic effect the tone idk if there is a Mic Shootout on your channel or what, but yeah I know the mic placement but wonder if many massive differences since if you record with amps that is what is what goes into the mix. If you don’t use amp sims.
Hey, buddy! No slamming us guitarists! We're a gift that keeps on giving. You get more content, ay? Ay? And don't forget, Glennie-boy: ONE OF US, ONE OF US, ONE OF US! Hehhehehhehheh.... ;)
As for the sheet music there, yeeeaaaaaaaah, legit point, but then again, how often do we HAVE guitarists that can deal with it?
Need a video on Quantum presonus....its a must from you.
If possible please talk on video production and or stream if possible. Compare to volt and focusrite.
Interested also in hot pickups or active and that auto level in your opinions.
If you make this video i will be happy to go yes yes yes in a semi fruity way. Sound clip can be had if seeked for your time making it 😆.
Quantum and this new trend must be talked about by you and be above just metal talk as we need things which others have yet to say.
Im interested on es line but open to hd2 line but Reid Steffan is the only to cover it well enough to know whats right for me. Coming from you it would mean more and can shed light to many im sure.
I want it for music but also video work as i have several channels i run. And i need something clean and makes my life easier. I hate fighting with hardware to get the art done. Got to figure in mix time or audio time and then video in most cases its life shortening time on a sunny day.
Plus all of us have to work and some have kids. What ever helps me do my thing and not get ragged is a god send.
Can you please consider the video id love to hear anything you have to say. Id prefer it longer or more informative, but you do you 😂😂😂😂.
i have no idea what the tubes are but i could hear a more pronounced peak attack in the A tone with the clean tone. with distortion it was less noticeable though.
I've watched a lot of comparisons on CZcams including your comparison and others comparing mics. Sometimes the difference between a $200 mic and a $20000 is very subtle. Could it be an audio codec associated with CZcams that makes it harder to distinguish between the sources of sound? And once those tracks are processed I have to wonder why someone would spend so much money on things that don't really sound better.
Idiocracy is such a good movie
Wait a few years and it becomes reality
You misspelled "documentary"
@@geckoofcolor5721 We are already there. Together with Demolition Man.
It really didn’t age well, though. 😂😂
I could not laugh once watching it, allmost cried a few times tho'
I love watching you. You keep my ego in check and I will always appreciate you for this.
Why not use a re-amper for this test?
I feel like i noticed some minimal changes on some of these clips, but i dont fully trust that i was just looking so hard that i was making shit up.
But using a some type of re amping would eliminate the human element, and i personally feel there are a lot of very minor nuaces in gear that are imperceptible to a listener, but can alter your playing.
Tonewood, for example, is a joke on an electric guitar, but some of my guitars will resonate differently against my body in way that makes me perceive the whole playing experince differenly and may make me make slight alteration to how im playing.
I'm looking forward to the test where you invert one signal and mix then together to show what the actual difference is
In unrelated news u have a set of tubes from my Mesa for sale. You can pick either 6L6 or EL34
It wont account for the compression of the EL34. However you could compare the visual of the wave forms.
5:10 clip a clean
5:18 clip b clean
5:35 clip a edging
5:42 clip b edging harder
5:57 clip a bad solo
6:08 clip b bad solo
6:26 clip a full mix
6:39 clip b full mix
You're good!!!👌
Thanks man this is perfect, but I’m just wondering where the gooning time stamps are. I see the edging time stamps but not the gooning.
haahahah brilliant
For all those people who go on about hearing very subtle difference in tubes, pickups, cables and on and on. Especially reviewers in magazine, follow one of the founding principals of the pharmaceutical industry. If its not documented, it didn't happen. Null tests are so easy to do and should be in every recording engineers tool bag.
I don't claim to be able to hear any difference here in these clips. FWIW, back in the early 00s I saw Dave Meniketti of Y&T playing a Mesa Dual Recto live, and I later asked him whether he was running the 6L6 or the EL34s in it, and he said it was the 6L6s. In that live moment, I couldn't tell which tubes it was. I think SOME of that is due to the way the Dual Recto is VOICED -- to sound similar either way.
That said, I still think there is SOME difference between those (and other tube types) in SOME contexts. Santana through early 6L6 Mesas is not really an EL34 tone as I know it. What I've experienced is that the larger the tube, the more clean headroom you get before the tube distorts.
For example, I played a Marshall Zakk Wylde JCM800 model with 6550s, and you could crank the thing all the way up and the tubes just would NOT distort. It was made to be a clean platform of an amp, and Zakk got his distortion from Boss SD1 in front of it. Very different from a JCM800 with EL34s in it.
But yes, it the context of recording -- particularly high gain metal, a lot of the differences go out the window.
I totally heard a noticeable difference in the upper hemi quads. Just where the fundamental decoherence meets critical density.
Okay, i hear ya, but hear me out for a bit, if any of you have read any malcolm gladwell, he talks in his book "blink", (i think it was that one?) about how our perception does actually effect our experience, his talks about how they changed the colour distribution on a sprite can, and people had an adverse reaction to the taste, (fascinating stuff!) but my question is, given what we know about the strength of the placebo effect, can it still be true that because someone believes theyre tubes are "better", they will play with more feeling and emotion?!? Or can these people actually percieve something that someone like myself can't !?! I demand a public taste test! Lets see the people that claim to hear the difference actually perform an actual "taste test", as suggested by mr. gladwell, involving three amps, two of one, one of the other, (check out his book for an explanation ,) can you actually tell the difference in real time? I demand a taste test! If anyone could pull it off, it would be you glen, but i know, its probably not worth it. Thanks for the vids though!
Edit for spelling
I dunno, i practice to know what im going to play in the studio. Improvising is not for the studio. I want to make good use of the engineers' time. Love your points on recording, and by the way in the studio, I'm using their setup, not mine. I'm paying for their knowledge so I'm going to always go with what they say sounds best. (They have told me that I'm one of a few they like coming in to record)
the only difference I could discern, is that the second clip had tubes that were more wired for midrange, rather than the first clip having more high end.
You mean, on the cleans. Good ears. Try the mix, which one from the clean is which in the mix, they have similar thing going on in both.
@@nunninkav5307 on both clean and distorted, and the edge of breakup, I could discern the eq of the guitars slightly, however, I see how they would be similar.
Next, can we please do a blind resistive load vs. reactive load speaker attenuator test. I want to know if guitarists can really "feel" the difference in their fingers like they claim. Or if there's a tremendous difference in sound quality at the lowest bedroom levels of playing. I'm not talking about their use as interfaces, or their software. Just amp and speakers.
I think I heard a difference in the clean/edge of breakup A/B test. The full mix sounded identical though
The fact that people still want to argue about tubes after you've done test after test with them is astounding to me. The difference is minimal guys. if you notice a big difference, then do a test yourselves and share the results with the world.
That would require effort. The one thing that stands between so many musicians and success!
Very true, so very true
It's only a difference if you make it a difference. The amount of difference, is a matter of perspective. How deep do you want to dig? You can keep going, keep digging layers or variables until you go insane and are adjusting the voltage and current to the tubes by half a watt. In the end it's just perspective. The difference in perspective between a music consumer and a cork sniffing, tone snob, guitarist with vampire bat ears is pantheons and orders of magnitude. Also, Glenn as a MIXER shouldn't go down this rabbit hole and start processing layers of tone like this. As a mixer, it could drive you to madness. Now, as a dedicated engineer, yes, go mad, but as a mixer you don't want to go there, your job is the sound of the whole peice of work, not the tube bias on the bass track and the fact the guitar didn't use sweetened tuning on the G string. You will go mad if you take yourself down that path. However as an engineer, dig in, go insane, it's your job to know every variable possible.
I notice differences, big enough for me to prefer one to the other. I don’t say necessarily one is better and the other is worse, or that the difference is too huge and not subtle. But I hear it, and it makes me always buy the amps with one tubes, rather than the other, simply cuz I like to hear what I like to hear, I like to play and enjoy the process, rather than hearing a sound feedback which is unpleasant to my ears or my mind. Don’t be so dramatic about it.
I get that you said you used a re-amp box and clearly said that it was the same performance....but I'm betting people will say it's a different performance because the camera angle changed.
Just want to add my two cents to this topic; I recon most guitar players that has swapped tubes before have swapped old XX tubes with new YY tubes as they want to restore newly purchased older 2nd hand amps. And then thinks that this change in sound is rather type vs type diff forgetting that what they hear is fresh new tubes vs ancient/worn out tubes. Rock on!
It’s the design the amp around a particular type of tubes that yield the differences. For example, an EVH EL34 vs. an EVH 6L6. The platforms are different. Just switching tubes in a hybrid amp is not a very good example.
“Not a good example.” Can you please link to your test? Because all I’m reading is speculation.
@@SpectreSoundStudios People have linked tests. You just don't respond, lol.
@@travisspaulding2222 Where have they linked them? Not in this videos comments at least, as I have scrolled through literally every one of them and have not seen any tests linked (as of typing this comment, naturally).
That would invalidate a test. When you test if tube makes a difference, the test should be setup where everything is constant/fixed and the only thing changing is the tube. This is the correct test, same circuit, only tube is changing.
You don't really understand the concept of having only one variable
Glen, you are the shizznit!!! Being a “guitar player”/ guitarist, I never decide being offended from what you say. In fact I find it hella humorous. I can claim to not be a dumb guitarist, so I keep an open mind to all your vids. Keep ‘em coming.
Cheers, brutha
🤘🏽😈🤘🏽
But...
Why Two Notes products give fairly different results when you choose different tubes? I always chose the KT88 on my high gain presets
just a little bit wider ....
I thought I could hear a diff (thicker/warmer/whatever), in first three comparisons, but I have no idea which tubes would be on them. On the mix, nada.
Gonna try for fun
Listened on iPhone 11 speakers
I thought B always sounded like it had more weight. Low mids maybe I dunno. I don’t know enough about tubes to say which one does that.
I hope you didn’t flip them between tests haha.
I thought that I might have picked up something different between the two different tubes, but it's not distinct enough to be noticeable or make any real difference. Especially once it's in a mix, what differences I thought I could hear completely vanished.
It's almost like the speakers are the most important thing.
Damn, that Christian Veigh/Vay/Vey/however it's spelled, sorry dude can REALLY play! Incredible how he's capable of giving the EXACT same performance after sitting and waiting for you to swap out the tubes, Glenn! 🤣