Gen Z and the Agony of a Screen-Based Life with Freya India | Episode 164
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- Stella and Sasha welcome writer and columnist Freya India to the show this week, offering deep insights about the impact of screens and technology on young people and practical advice for balanced living in the digital age. They explore Gen Z's relationship with Instagram and dating apps, the fixation on mental illness and identity, and the misleading notion that you can buy your authentic self.
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Most Gen Xers feel we are so very lucky to have had the childhoods we had. We are the grandmas who dispair for this young generation because we recognise how disconnected they are from human relationships that are real.
I really love watching Sasha's face when Stella is talking. So many flashes of amusement and affection, as well as a deep respect for what she's saying. Especially when Stella is using adorable and quirky little words or phrases (like every other sentence).These two women have a really rich and deep admiration for each other and I love their dynamic. I can see how much Sasha trusts and reveres stella (and is amused by her), thru her expressive listening. Sometimes the expression says "yes, that so needs to be said." They feed each others sense of purpose and validate each other beautifully. What a lovely team of beautiful, strong women getting shite done.
My kids just turned 35, they were the final decade of kids without cell phones at school. I resisted cell phones for the longest time saying that I did not want to just always available at someone's beck and call (now I'm an addict like everyone else). I really resonate with Freya and her sense of the superficiality of some modern relationships that are based through online access, and the moving of intimate relationships to online, loosing our close connections. It can be very alienating, both from others and even yourself. Great talk. Thank you ladies.
What Freya and the two of you are discussing in melancholic nostalgia is what Eric Fromm wrote about in his 1941 book “Escape From Freedom.” In the book, Fromm explores humanity's shifting relationship with freedom, how individual freedom can cause fear, anxiety and alienation, and how many people seek relief by relinquishing freedom. This from Wikipedia.
In other words, the loss of guidance of elders causes a disorientation and insecurity in children. While all authority in today’s world is demonized, and banished it becomes increasingly clear that “children will lead the way,” a great line in Whitney Houston’s song, doesn’t work.
We all eventually rebel against mom and dad saying “no,” but as maturity sets in we long for the order of things and trusted authority. We get passed the rebellion especially when we have kids.
Some Parents want to be their kids friends and/or expect their children’s innocence to give unspoiled wisdom. Children don’t have wisdom and are confused when the adults in the room won’t do their job.
Today’s social platforms have become the island in “Lord of the Flies.” The feral captured are in a race to the bottom.
No wonder today they want to make hate speech a crime. When your constant world is a 14” diagonal screen, an invective feels like a punch that doesn’t bruise, but scars.
And they’re also taking their smart phones to bed at night. If you can’t feel “safe” in your own bed at night, you see danger everywhere.
The optimist in me hopes that these internet generations, who feel like Freya does, start a movement to detach. Almost like it becomes "cool" to be off the grid and a new social justice movement to stand against being held hostage. If kids who feel like Freya does band together and say "NO", it would be a very powerful moment for them. Heck use the very mechanism to destroy its power, create meetups where no phones are allowed, or picnics in the park without phones. As a Gen X parent with a young child who thinks she is trans (a classic case of ROGD) because of the influencers she watched during COVID, we are now doing everything to get her outside, and involved in the things she loves away from the computer. I feel like we all dropped our guards during COVID, it was a very vulnerable time. I SO appreciate this Podcast and has helped me and my husband remain determined to help our daughter become comfortable in her own skin. EDIT: Just after typing this Sasha says the same thing!!! Love this thinking!
I was born in 95, and I would have really struggled growing up in 99. The world just changed so much. I think the two things that have most helped me come to peace with who I am and where I stand in this world, are practicing gratefulness and following some teachings from Buddhism.
When I get that desire to purchase something due to an add, or whatever, I think of the things I'm grateful for that I already hae. Often that kills that desire to get the new thing. Even things like wanting cosmetic surgery, I have crooked and discoloured teeth, and for 10 years I have struggled with them ever since a dentist told me they are crooked and ruin my otherwise "lovely smile." But I'm grateful for my teeth. They do an excellent job of being teeth. I can comfortably chew and talk, and they are perfectly healthy. I don't need to change them.
As for Buddhism. I find the five rememberances to be most helpful. These are
1. I am of a nature to grow old. I cannot avoid ageing.
2. I am of a nature to become ill. I cannot avoid illness.
3. I am of a nature to die. I cannot avoid death.
4. Everyone and everything I love and hold dear is of a nature to change. I cannot avoid seperation from the people and things I love.
5. My actions are my only belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand.
Saying these five remembrances brings me so much peace. It focuses me again on the importance of my actions over how I look in who I am. And also reminds me that its normal for me to age, if I'm lucky, I will get wrinkles, I will get grey hair, I will get sagging skin and hairs in weird places. This is normal. And making peace with that protects me a lot from marketing. I also cold turkey quit all social media some time last year. CZcams is the closest thing to social media I now use.
So good to hear you girls! I'm very interested in that topic due to major issues with my young couins and nieces (ipad children) that are going through hard time. Learning, following orders or even podcast listening/watching movies (!) is soooo hard for them. One of them is also sucked in by gender cult, and his sister is in therapy for depression. Without screen in their hands they look so absent. The youngest one (5y old) developed weird nervous response when whe is "scrolling" with her finger in the air when she cant use ipad or phone
I completely admire young people who refuse to be on social media. They are extremely rare but very special.
She is so insightful!
Amazing show, and so so relevant. I think our digital addictions are the cause of so many of our woes today...mental health, gender dysphoria, body dysmorphia, relationship issues. So this talk was very lovely to listen to. Thank you all ❤
I cried listening to this.. what a clever, articulate, caring lady, being beautiful on the outside is also a blessing. I do feel for the younger generations on how different their lives are with all the technology.. I’m sharing this with everyone I know! Thank you for this!
This was so validating. Phones and social media became more of a thing in my early 20's and I noticed the change. I resisted social media at first, but my friends started spending more time on their phones when we were together. One of them told me that they wouldn't tell me how they were until I set an account up and checked there first. It's hard feeling like the only person that doesn't get it. I'd always loved technology before then, so I couldn't understand why this didn't click with me so well. Since then it's felt a lot harder to connect with people.
I used the internet a lot when I was younger, but it use to be more about sharing interests. Finding like minded people to connect with. The content that gets the most attention nowadays seems to be negative or about mental health. Admittedly I engage with it too, but have also questioned if it's actually good for us.
Fantastic interview. I wish this could be essential viewing for everyone on the planet! Thank you so much for the work you are doing, all of you. It is hugely appreciated.
When we were in a party and no one was talking to us or we felt awkward, we just had a cigarette - we’ve always had our anxiety props!
All the talk about the authentic self reminds me of what Paul VanderKlay has been talking about lately. We have moved from a society of “sincerity” where social capital is earned by living up to the role society gave you to a society of “authenticity” where it is earned by being true to your authentic self, and this is complicated by “profilicity” where what we see of each other is not our true self, but a curated profile of what we want people to see.
I find that everyone who talks about their "authentic self" seems to be living an obvious lie but manipulating others to go along with it
Freya is wise beyond her years. It was obvious to me when smart phones came along that children shouldn't have them or access to social media, but the technology came so fast and phone companies enticed everyone with family savings plans and most parents didn't realize how dangerous it was for children. And governments were dilinquent in not regulating the industry and protecting children.
Im an RBT in the Pasadena District in So. California. I am a proud Generation Xer. I told my colleague that we are the last generation who knew how to use OUR intuition as our OWN moral compass. The Generation after us were so helicoptered and later babysat and educated by the "scream". Generation Xers are going to bring back teaching and mentoring our kids about listening to your GUT and turn that anxiety into drive and purpose. Like us latch key kids, stranger danger, satanic panic traumatizing rhetoric. We were raised hyperviligent. Just a thought. Cant wait too listen to this self aware and trusting her gut brave young woman.
When I was a teen in the mid to late 90s I also felt such a sense of longing for times goneby. I was obsessed with the 60s and 70s and still at 42 years old wish I had been a kid, teen or young adult in those decades. I loved my childhood in the late 80s and early 90s, but by the time I was a teen crap music was beginning to become popular. I was NEVER into boy bands or teen pop princesses so I don't identify with my so called generation.
As a Gen X mom who remembers a truly free-range childhood, this episode resonated deeply with me. I have a highly sensitive 12 yo girl who and 9 yo "NB" son who I have literally bribed to stay off social media till they are 18. I told them I would give them each $100/year if they wait till 18 to join any SM platform. There are still plenty of influences preying on their young and vulnerable minds and psyches. I need to share this episode with at least my daughter. Thank you for another amazing conversation.
Someone needs to tell Freya her feeling of isoation n youth is due to her uncanny intelligence. And it will continue as an adullt for her. She is in the upper half of the 1%. That's isolating. Among the few who have such intelligence the interest & focus varies. Few are on her page. Not easy.
LOVE FREYA'S WORK! I coach teenage girls soccer and this message is so important.
I was also born in 1999 so everything that Freya talks about resonates deeply with me. I was always prone to anxiety but screens and social media heightened it. It was difficult to handle the pressure of taking selfies and photos to post online. When I was around 12-14, people used to rate each other and give 'honest opinions' on Facebook, which was horrible for my self-esteem, particularly as a quieter, less confident young girl. I didn't engage in that too much, which I am thankful for now, but like Freya said, it made me think that there was something wrong with me for not being able to cope with it when it appeared others could. It also became easier to stay at home and watch youtube or go on tumblr than facing my anxiety about going out and socialising.
While I wish my teenage years were different, I'm glad that my early childhood was not screen based like children today, and that I still remember a time without social media and smartphones. I feel for the younger generations, but I also hope it will be my generation who will really bring back the play based childhood for our own children.
Happiness is an inside job. Authenticity is an inside job. saying this has been construed as "hateful" or "conversion therapy" but it's the most compassionate perspective you can take on the matter.
I have a therapeutic hypothesis: Compared to screens with Gen Z, the AI will break family relations with Gen Alpha to larger magnitude of the effect. For example, trans generational transmission of a cooking a recipe used to happen in the relationships between the grandma, the mother, the daughter, but now Alpha daughter may just AI the recipe for a certain dish and forgo asking her grandma for the recipe.
Anemoia reminds me of the Noah Baumbach film "Kicking & Screaming" from 1995. There's a great line by one of the leads: “I’m nostalgic for conversations I had yesterday. I’ve begun reminiscing events before they even occur. I’m reminiscing this right now. I can’t go to the bar because I’ve already looked back on it in my memory… and I didn’t have a good time.”
Thank you for your work! I listen to these on Spotify, but try to remember to come set some support on YT, too. Go, ladies, go!
Also, therapists now use zoom! Here in Australia some therapists are online only. This is extremely inadequate.
This was very interesting! I'd love to know how much research you've all done into ADHD. I don't want to misinterpret you, but it sounded like you were suggesting that it's been caused by technology. How would you respond to the women in their 40s/50s/60s who went through teens without phones and who don't engage much with social media, but who can trace the symptoms of ADHD throughout their childhoods and have found their lives greatly improved by getting a diagnosis even this late in life? I have relatives who are raising their children in a loving family with no TV until primary school and no screens at all beyond that, but the eldest, at 7, is already showing signs of constant distraction, excoriation as a form of fidgeting, impulsivity and rejection disphoria since before she could use full sentences? I've looked into the research as much as I can without a medical background, in order to help support them, and the evidence for ADHD seems pretty overwhelming to me. I'm sure there are teens who are misdiagnosing themselves, but I don't think I would lay the blame entirely at the feet of technology. I'd love to hear your thoughts, Stella and Sasha. Thanks!
I don't think they were saying ADHD is a tech only thing. However speaking as a young person myself I think it is greatly exacerbated by social media and you have a lot of people displaying ADHD type behaviors or believing that they have ADHD when in reality they just need time away from the phone if that makes sense, lol.
ADHD is real but I think we are in an epidemic of over diagnoses at the moment and social media 100% plays a role in this imo.
Gosh, I wish I was as wise as Freya when I was her age, I was just an absolute fool at 25.
I remember when we used to vent to friends. Eye to eye over a coffee. Or several times over several coffees, colas, beers.. whatever.
We had a lot of time to contemplate and falter in between, and gain a crucial perspective.
When waiting and longing for the next time to meet up with a friend was a joy. To vent or to let them vent.
Now everybody vents to Google. Friends say, "Have you googled?.. Maybe there's a FB group?"
Turns out google ain't a good friend and FB is a mental minefield.
Who would have thought..🤷
And here I am.. 'venting' to YT...😂
Surprisingly, I think meeting guys in bars might be the healthier option!
Stella, I think you probably are overselling the experience of Gen X. I don't think it was wonderful (perhaps it was better in Ireland?), although I do think things are much worse now. Of course, I romanticize my parents' generation regarding courtship, but there were lots wrong then, too. Probably, I am a pessimistic idealist. I wish we could create a better world, but seriously, I doubt it can happen. However, I try myself in small ways and regret I can't do anything on a bigger scale like you guys are doing.
❤🇬🇧
- I hope that now that you have given Freya her chance to speak on your platform, you will invite someone who is diagnosed with ADHD and/or Autism to talk about what it's actually like, living as an autistic adult and living as an ADHD adult. Here are some people (autistic/adhd'rs) you could consider inviting to your podcast:
- Mom on the spectrum
- Autistic AF with Mike
- The hidden 20%
- ADHD chatter podcast
- Orion Kelly - That Autistic Guy
- The Aspie World with Dan
- Woodshed theory with Claire
- How to ADHD with Jessica McCabe
- Chris Packham (He's probably the most famous, if you will, of the list)
- You can thank my hyperfocus later. 😉
We have had numerous guests with ADHD and/or autism and have done a number of episodes on both topics. What Freya is talking about is kids self-diagnosing using criteria that has gotten so broad that pretty much everyone qualifies. This is not helpful or healthy for these kids.
A shout out to all the young women who are going through this with the support of their mothers right now. Be sure to remind them in your 30s and 40s out the back of this social media nonsense memes😂
Oh to be a kid in the 70s again, when all we had to worry about was the Teddy Boys kicking the crap out of us for fun and nicking our pocket money.
Did us no harm at all, at all. 😉
I do mock people like Freya said, but I do so because they complain about something but do absolutely nothing about it. Step one: If you don't like something, try to improve it. Step two: if you don't think you can change someone and don't like it, stop doing it (if you can). Step 3: learn how to live your life based on what you want to do and how you want to be, not based on how everyone else is.
There are many parts of American individuality that I hate, but this one is good. Young people need to learn how to be their own person. That means doing things in smaller groups or one-on-one or alone. It also means not relying on your parents for everything.
My first reaction to the thumbnail was…bad. I see what you’re trying to say and I agree fully with the bottom line. But if you are a literal person like me you can’t help but have awareness about how a sentence like that registers in the subconscious mind.
Young girls’ brains are not even compatible with AI. No brain is, but young girls don’t need to be set apart from the rest brain-wise. However the developing female mind has incredible abilities and strengths because it is sensitive and a detector for everything and that can surely be hijacked because it’s a period of increased negative emotion that can turn against the self and will do that even without manipulation
Thanks for your note. We actually changed the thumbnail. The brain - AI reference is something Freya talks about in the piece with regard to Instagram. Hopefully you still watched the episode and then got the fuller context.
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The global pandemic made this phenomenon much worse and deep-seated in people.