Why 1979-2004 Mustangs are the BEST AUTOCROSS CARS EVER BUILT
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- čas přidán 16. 09. 2019
- People always ask me if Mustangs are good autocross cars. Many of those people are Mustang owners who want to autocross, but have bought into the common misconception that 1979-2004 Mustangs aren’t capable of carving corners around cones.
Years ago, when I asked what the best autocross car was, I was told a hundred times… “Miata is always the answer!”
So, why did I choose to drive Fox Body and New Edge Mustangs when I started autocrossing? And, why do I want you to autocross your 1979-2004 Mustang?
This video covers 5 great reasons why 1979-2004 Mustangs are the BEST AUTOCROSS CARS EVER BUILT! - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Man keep all this a secret...my parts are getting more expensive every year
I raced a 1996 Mustang Cobra in SCCA Pro Solo s and Solo 2 events including the Solo 2 Nationals. Its in a stock class meaning all we did was Koni s, Bigger front sway bar and BFG R1s. Man that was a well balanced car and super fun at Pro Solo s
It's amazing how well these cars respond to a few simple mods. I'm hoping my channel is helping convince more people to autocross their Mustangs.
Well said and keep up the great work and advocating for our beloved ponys!
I was told at an autocross, the only way my car would be competitive would be to fully gut it. The last autocross I went to, was hosted by a Mercedes club. There were 2 other fox platform mustangs there, then two S197's.
1979-2004 Mustangs going up against modern cars in Street Class (where very few mods are allowed) have some tough competition. But, that doesn't mean they can't be competitive (or win). That's the great thing about autocross. Our cars get exponentially better as you modify them, but you can do well with very few mods. They just need to be the right mods. As for gutting your car: I run in CAM, where you can do a fair amount of weight reduction within the rules. But, you have to have a "finished" interior. I have race seats, and a rear seat delete, but I still have A/C, a radio, airbags, carpet, a headliner and my center console. My cars are far from gutted and they do okay. My 2004 V6 weighs 3,300 lbs. and has about 220 hp. Your car weighs about the same amount and has more horsepower. You don't need to gut it. Just get as much adjustability in the car as possible and dial it in from there.
I'm glad to hear there were a couple of other Fox platform cars at your last event. I'm seeing more 1979-2004 Mustangs show up at my events. I'm hoping that trend continues.
Thank you for the confidence boost
Awesome video! Finally someone who shows what these cars can do
Thanks! I'm hoping the videos inspire people to start autocrossing their Mustangs!
Must agree with your solid advice.!Solid advice6+ years of autox best improvement, Sn95 spindle swap chromemoly crossmember a-arms camberplates tie rods and universal all stock locations and mish mash of mach1 and cobra brakes, frame ties. Huge improvement in less under 🐄 the most resent noticed improvement was 95 spindles and mach1 brakes. Of course 400+hp helps too mostly in enjoyment.
Awesome video bro👍
Your channel is awesome. Keep this up.
Thank you! I've got more videos coming soon!
Thanks so much for a great video.
Thank you for checking out my channel!
That was the cutest mustang video EVER MADE!!!😍
You had me at hello...
Sniff, sniff.
Awesome video!
Thanks! If you have any questions about autocrossing your Mustang, please ask. I'm happy to help.
Video is 3 years old for me and still great advice
Thanks! I'm glad this video is helping people!
Good video, i always wanted to have a mustang that was set up for road racing.
Thanks! These cars are a great choice for all sorts of racing.
miata owner here and I'm always tempted into switching to a mustang
79-04 Mustangs (and s197 & s550 Mustangs) are a ton of fun to autocross. I've been fortunate to ride in and drive many Miatas at autocross events, and they both have positive attributes. If you get a chance, co-drive a Mustang at an event; you'll have a blast!
Maybe this'll convince your temptations even more.
czcams.com/video/AzpDOFOvdek/video.html
As someone who owns both It's definitely worth it
Great video!! I really need to get my cobra on an autocross course!
Thanks! Throwing these cars around on course is a ton of fun. If you ever have any questions, please ask.
@@warhorseracing ill be sure to do that! Actually, how do I find autocross events in my area?
You can search for local autocross clubs and local SCCA Clubs. You can also check www.motorsportreg.com and filter results for autocross.
I was a Chevy kid growing up, that’s all I seen my family have. Until my brother bought a ssp notchback at a auction and would do doughnuts everywhere. I was hooked, I’ve had 4 foxbodys already and I’m going to keep collecting them. I have 2 at them moment. I sold my lt1 camaro 6speed to build a fox body. I been loving my building process with my lx hatchback. I have a 55,000 mile convertible lx as well, all original. I recently changed the original spark plug wires it had
Over the years, I've heard so many stories of people who have owned multiple Mustangs. There's just something special about these cars that makes people want to collect them.
Definitely!!, hopefully my kids love them as well. Can’t wait until they get bigger and help me wrench so they can have the passion I have!
I've been looking at what I'll get for a project car to take to time trials and autox. Lots of options. I want something I can drive that has good after market support. There is nothing out there like the 5.0 sn-95. Add to that the relative ease of making it IRS or any other sexy rear suspension from someone like Griggs or QA1, and I'm sold. I'll be buying one as soon as I can.
The great thing about these cars is that they take modifications really well. They get exponentially better with just a few mods. And, there are still companies engineering new parts for them. Keep me posted on your project. If you ever have any questions, please ask. I'm always happy to help.
Great video!
Bang for buck, autocross, drag racing or just all around street beast, you can’t beat em! Great starting point for someone getting into the hobby. The aftermarket and used as well is so well supported with parts availability. The knowledge base is also second to none due to so many enthusiasts out there as well. Easy and cheap to make big horsepower as mod motors respond great to boost. Could always go SN 197 if you want an even more retro looking platform with an better chassis but the still can’t beat the 79-04 for all the reasons mentioned.
Thanks! Companies are still designing new parts for these cars. It's amazing to see the evolution in the aftermarket from when I first got my Fox in 1992 to today.
Warhorse Racing I still have my TR 03 Mach. Drag raced it a lot early on but slowly been switch the suspension to make it handle better. Would love to try AutoX! Only thing I’ve never liked on em is shifter placement is too forward and the seats always seemed too high, like you’re sitting on top of the car rather than in it? Maybe just me, and not really a big problem. Even though my daily is a 10 Plum Crazy Challenger RT, I still love my Mach. For a “newer” car, it still has that raw old school muscle car feel to it.
Totally agree with you as to learning how to drive the car, factory flaws and all, before throwing parts at it. See that with all brands drag racing anyway. All kinds of stuff to make power and they can’t cut a good 60’ time to save their life. I’m sure AutoX newbies make the same mistake? You’re not in the New England area by chance? Jim
@@fishsquishguy1833 The Mach 1 is a great car. I always loved the Mach 1 wheels. A Steeda Tri-Ax shifter will help smooth out the shifts and put the handle in a better position. The seats are high, but that's the old body design meeting up with more comfortable seats. I use Corbeau seats and I actually have to use 1/2 inch spacers to get the seats in the best driving position (for me). One of my favorite things about these cars is that they have that old-school feel, but can be modernized to be reliable and comfortable. Best of both worlds. You should absolutely try autocross! If you have any questions, please ask.
I was a Chevy kid growing up, that’s all I seen my family have. Until my brother bought a ssp notchback at a auction and would do doughnuts everywhere. I was hooked, I’ve had 4 foxbodys already and I’m going to keep collecting them. I have 2 at them moment. I sold my lt1 camaro 6speed to build a fox body. I been loving my building process with my lx hatchback. I have a 55,000 mile convertible lx as well, all original. I recently changed the original spark plug wires it had
Got some subframe connectors and k members brace from the junk yard today.
Salvage yards are a great resource when you're building an autocross car.
I'm into muscles; particularly mustangs since it's the most available muscle here in philippines, among other muscles. And I thought I'm one of the few who thinks mustangs can also do things like that besides japanese cars (i.e.: parts commonality & compatibility). I was wrong.
It's as diverse now that I realize it after watching this video. Many thanks for further opening up my mind! Sincerely from philippines.
Thanks for checking out my video! It's great to hear that people from all over the world are into Mustangs!
Do you find that any additional cooling is needed for oil or transmission fluid?
I have not added an oil or transmission cooler to any of my cars. Autocross runs are short and you usually have 5-10 minutes between runs, so the cars get a rest. I do use synthetic oil in all my cars and I run Redline transmission fluid in the V6 T-5. I will switch to Redline transmission fluid in all the cars when it's time to change the fluid. It is important to make sure your oil, transmission fluid, power steering fluid and coolant are all at the proper level. And be sure to check the oil, coolant and power steering fluid levels prior to every event. My Fox and 2004 V6 have the same power steering pump, it tends to spit out a little fluid under high-speed cornering (a common problem). I need to add a little fluid in the middle of each season to ensure there's enough. I also change my oil every 2000 miles out of an abundance of caution. I've run the Ford recommended fluid in my 2000 GT for 6 seasons and never had an issue.
wish he went into more detail about the sway bar upgrades etc... i have a 95 5.0 that i am building.. and didnt know about some of this stuff...
Your choice of sway bar depends on the SCCA Category you are running in (limited by the rules), and the condition (understeer or oversteer) that you are trying to correct. If you check out my "ThoroughbRED Part 4: HOW TO ADJUST YOUR AUTOCROSS SUSPENSION" video, you will find information about how your suspension parts impact the handling of your car. If you let me know what Category you are running in, and the mods you've made, I can suggest which sway bar will benefit your car the most.
Have you tried an original mini with just a tad more horsepower than stock? Usually if an original mini shows up to the autocrosses I used to go to, they kill out of sheer short wheelbase maneuverability.
I instructed a Novice in a vintage Mini that had been gutted and given a bit more power. While I didn't get the chance to drive it, I was quickly convinced it was a great car to learn in: You had to stay in the gas, use the size of the car to your advantage, separate out your inputs, and limit braking to find speed on course. Those are all fundamental autocross skills. I wish I saw more original Minis at events.
the 79 lx is the lightest foxbody I believe. I know the steering in mine was stupid light and responsive even compared to modern cars. I had tons of fun back in the day with a NA 331 and built c4 ... set & forget in 1 and enjoy the exhaust note coming from H-pipe fed glasspacks. 😁 in tulsa at least I felt like a rebel by removing the vinyl top it had since 79 but keeping its spirit alive and doing doing black Speedliner coating with the rest of car primer gray with matte clearcoat , and 88 GT turbine wheels with the face of the turbines sanded then given the brushed aluminum finish.... white letter radial T/A s for some retro fun ... man i loved that car LoL
It's always good to hear the fond memories people have of these cars!
I’m inspired to start auto-crossing my sn95. It’s completely stock. I’m currently “restoring” the car until it’s running and riding right again. Love the videos.
Do you have an Instagram we can follow?
I'm very happy to hear that you're inspired to start autocrossing your SN95. A stock Mustang will be a lot of fun out on course. If you have any questions, I'm happy to help. And I'm glad you like the videos. Unfortunately, I don't currently have an Instagram account.
@@warhorseracing I'm certain your channel will benefit with an instagram account. Come on over, it's where all the enthusiast hang out.
I own an 03 v6 and i want to make it into a grippy track runner.
Sorry for the delayed reply. I normally respond to comments within 24 hours. There are subtle but important differences between a track car and an autocross car, but I'd be happy to suggest some suspension mods that will improve the handling of your 03 V6. My 2004 V6 does pretty well at my local autocross events; you can see how it performs in several of my results videos.
The under rear end pic of what im guessing is your 92 gt, you have two sway bars??
Yes. The second sway bar is the Steeda Adjustable Rear Sway Bar. It works on 79-04 Mustangs. There's a more detailed description of it in my first "Budget Autocross" video. Basically, it helps correct understeer and oversteer and allows you to get the car neutral. It's one of the best bang-for-the-buck handling mods you can do to solid rear axle cars.
I plan on building up my 99 04 GT to try and get into auto crossing it. I was wondering if it's possible to make a solid axle out preform my dream car 2000 cobra R or should I swap to IRS.
The first thing I'll say is that you don't need to modify your Mustang to start autocrossing. Running a stock car will allow you to determine if you want to keep autocrossing, and it will help you determine what mods you need to compete against the competition in your area. The SRA/IRS debate is tricky. In my opinion and experience, a prepped IRS will beat a prepped SRA. But there are other people who think the opposite. If you run on courses with lots of slaloms and sweepers, an IRS will be faster (the limit of traction is further out, so you can attack those elements harder). But, a stock IRS needs new bushings and links to perform at its best (look at my Mustang ST IRS videos). Those mods cost about as much as an IRS does. It's a big investment. You can get an SRA to handle very, very well. Well enough that beating an IRS car could come down to the driver and not the mods.
Buy Koni shocks and struts and strut tower brace. They made my new edge GT handle way better.
I have a 98 gt, should I leave the rear sway bar stock and upgrade the front only? Or should this be done in a pair? Rear an front
You asked a similar question on 2 of my other videos. I'm not sure why you didn't get notifications about my responses. I'm happy to answer your question again here. My advice would be to keep the stock rear sway bar, then add a Steeda Adjustable Rear Sway Bar. Use the Steeda rear sway bar to help get the car neutral. Then see if you like how the car feels. If you still think you need a larger front bar after that, then upgrade. I like a big front sway bar, but other people prefer a stock GT or a smaller V6 bar up front. It's a personal choice based on driving style and other modifications to your car. But, it's worth noting that putting a larger front sway bar on the car before solving the issues in the rear of the car won't help the handling on an autocross course. What other mods have been done to your car?
@@warhorseracing I will be getting a alignment, any suggesting on where to set the camber? I have adjustable steeda caster camber plates...or should they just be dialed in 0?
@@leavingasap843 In a Solid Rear Axle Mustang, you want as much negative camber as you can get. But, if you are also driving the car on the street, you will wear out the inside of tires faster than the outside. I'm aiming for -2.5 degrees in my Fox, but that car is only used for autocross. You don't want 0 degrees of camber. It's important to find a shop that does "competition" alignments. Some shops won't (or won't have the experience to) do a good autocross alignment. Do you daily drive the car? If so, I'd recommend -2 degrees (and rotate the tires more often than you normally would). Or, you can have the shop make 2 marks on your CC plates for "street" and "autocross" camber settings and change the camber the night before your events.
New to your channel. You have a lot of great info. On a stock Fox body, how do you feel about addressing the rear suspension before doing anything to the front? I hear getting the rear end to track the front of the car properly, might help you not need to buy as much suspension for the front.
Also, I'm surprised you never mentioned an adjustable panhard bar for the rear, do you not like them as much as an adjustable rear sway bar or is it just because of budget?
Thanks.
Thanks for checking out my channel! For autocross, adjustable shocks & struts are the first mod I would make. Then, depending on the SCCA Category you run in, I would decide on rear suspension mods that help address the "factory-installed" understeer issues these cars have. Most people who autocross their 79-04 Mustangs add a larger REAR sway bar to add oversteer (compensating for the understeer). Adding a larger FRONT sway bar first would add understeer to a car that already has understeer, which makes the car handle worse. If you check out my "ThoroughbRED Part 4: HOW TO ADJUST YOUR AUTOCROSS SUSPENSION" video, it covers which mods add oversteer/understeer.
The Steeda adjustable rear sway bar (now-discontinued) performed very well on my cars. I was able to beat cars with Panhard bars. Not every time, but enough to where I didn't see the need to spend the money on a Panhard bar. So, it was a balance between performance and budget. Having said that, I know several people who use Panhard bars, and are very pleased with the performance. Now that the Steeda adjustable rear sway bar is no longer available, my choice for a "next level" solid rear axle upgrade would be a Watt's Link.
@@warhorseracing awesome, thank you for the reply and info. I've always wondered if upgrading to even more expensive dampers would help a ton and help make up for some of its issues. Kind of like what some European vehicles use. Their adjustable dampeners are pretty damn good. I feel like a lot of mustang guys don't spend enough money on dampers and you're right they're probably the most important part of the suspension
Also, let me ask you this. The four-link in the rear causes some binding issues and a lot of people get rid of the upper control arms and then run like a panhard bar with a torque arm, but I was thinking that it's not that the upper control arms are a problem in themselves, but I feel like maybe it's the geometry angle that's the problem of the upper control arms. I feel like if you change the upper control arm angle then you could actually keep the four-link suspension. What do you think about this, I'm interested in your thoughts. Thanks for the conversation by the way.
@@JP-ri1wf I'm always happy to help. Adjustable shocks & struts allow you to fundamentally change the personality of your car, and compensate for mods that increase understeer and oversteer. They give you much more control over your setup, and allow you to tailor the car to your driving style. Many people assume that super-stiffer shocks & struts will make their car handle better, because it does feel "better" than stock under normal driving conditions. When pushed to the limit of traction under autocross conditions, the downside of super-stiff shocks & struts becomes apparent.
Quadra-bind is a problem inherent in the rear suspension design of 79-04 Mustangs. Some mods make this worse. Many people mod themselves into a worse quadra-bind situation. Or, they make mods that limit rear traction in other ways, leading to throttle-induced oversteer, and blame quadra-bind for their handling issues. Entire companies have been built around their philosophies for solving Mustang rear suspension issues. And, there are many good systems out there that allow you to remove one or both UCAs. I've had an upgraded stock-style rear suspension system in my Fox for almost 30 years (the parts are detailed in my "ThoroughbRED Part 1: PAST to PRESENT MODS" video), and I had a similar setup on my 2000 GT for over 100 autocross events. My Steeda UCAs weren't adjustable, and I never felt like quadra-bind was an issue. I'm not the fastest driver in the world, but I was able to compete in CAM-C with that setup at my local events. I did see an improvement when I switched to spherical upper differential housing bushings on my Fox. In my experience, with the right mods, you can use upgraded UCAs and have a very capable autocross car. I've personally never felt the need to use adjustable UCAs, but having more adjustability in the suspension (that you can actually use to your advantage on course) is never a bad choice.
Some of the autocross scenery looked familiar. Was some of the video from Danville Municipal Airport?
Or do a lot of airfield courses just look alike? :)
For privacy reasons, I don't reveal my location. But I know that Danville Regional Airport has been a popular site for many clubs and Evolution Driving Schools over the years.
Great video! I’m having a hard time finding those convertible subframe connectors. Do you know where I may be able to find them online, or perhaps a trip to my local junkyard would be better?
Thanks! Because shipping might be expensive, pulling them from your local salvage yard is probably the best option. You can also try MPS Auto Salvage in GA. They have an Ebay store, but you can also call them to see what they have.
I find The factory convertible subframes have thin wall weak steel. I did thru floor subframe made from 2”x2” thick wall tubing and 2x1.5 sqaure tubing for underside full length subframe connectors added gusseting plates at each end. And welded up all the corners of rear torque boxes also
Doing those both then road testing on the street was a night and day difference in my 03 gt convertible
Then i made a ro bar with double bars 1.75” and plated them together boxed at floors with extra bracing and adding rear bard triangulated behind seats maybe some help if ever a rollover.
Handles so much better with a stuff chassis now the suspension can be dialed in to do its job
@@jhershy1381 The OEM convertible subframe connectors aren't as strong as aftermarket versions. But they are an inexpensive way to improve the stiffness of the chassis. The SCCA Rules around chassis bracing are pretty strict. Having an easy bolt-in option for classes that allow bolt-in subframe connectors is helpful for people who don't want to drill more holes in their cars. If you check out my "TIPS for AUTOCROSSING an SN95 CONVERTIBLE" video, you'll see how chassis bracing impacts the Category you can run in, and the bracing I use on my 2000 GT convertible.
Oh gotcha. Yea i dont race so wasnt considering any rules
Your vast knowledge has made my street cars so much better already with some understanding and tuning.
@@jhershy1381 I'm glad my videos have been able to help. It's amazing what these cars can do with the right mods and adjustments.
That's a very bold statement to make, and although i have a slight biases to my favorite brand doesn't mean i dont like mustangs. I disagree and still believe my fwd honda platform is as good if not better, because of the disgusting amount of aftermarket support for my vehicle of choice. Not saying a mustang can't beat it and i highly encourage anyone to chase that goal but to call something the best you can't just say it. You have to prove it can be nimble with the right driver and set up. In my eyes the only way you can prove that is by racing a equally classed car/driver and putting pushing your cars to the limit.
To give some context because i believe ill receive some backlash. My buddy is a diehard mustang fan...he seen me racing my civic and pushing it as hard as i could. He was inspired to get a autocross/track car but he kept telling me he wanted a honda. I told him, i know you...you'll never have that fire like i do unless you drive something you love. When he told me he wanted to track a mustang it made me so happy. I had someone try and say why would you do that n that's where that ignorance comes into play.
My point is any car can be good at any sport. And if not, someone will build it till it can be. For fuck sake we got low 7 second awd hondas now. Thanks for reading
A stock Honda Civic is a very good autocross car, even going back a few generations. You can show up in a stock Honda Civic and do well at an autocross. But, you will always learn more about car control driving a car that isn't that good from the factory. And that's one of my points about the 79-04 Mustangs. They force you to drive around factory-installed flaws. Learning to drive around understeer and throttle-induced oversteer will make you a better autocrosser. The Honda Civic doesn't have nearly the same issues in stock trim. In my opinion, because the 79-04 Mustangs are harder to drive in stock form than a Honda Civic, they are better for your overall driver education as an autocrosser.
I raised this same point and I think if you watch series autox channels a lot of the fastest cars are able to rotate while being able to revert to power on applications mid turn aka civics. Mustangs (I have a fox, I’ve done years of autox in it) plow hard if pushed over 7/10ths corner to corner. You won’t find much appreciation for honesty on this channel.
@@warhorseracing I'm a diehard foxbody fan, and i think the IRS swapped mustangs look amazingly fun to drive, however if you say they're the best because they teach you to drive.. Don't you think that's a little counter intuitive? Like what do you intend to drive that doesn't have these same flaws after you've acquired such skill? Say you're a driver who has spent years honing their skill on a mustang. What's the next upgrade from that? A modern mustang? Or what?
@@jvogler_art4708 In section #2, I talk about STOCK 79-04 Mustangs being hard to drive due to some "factory-installed" flaws and the fact that the brakes weren't great on many models. Learning to drive around understeer, throttle-induced oversteer and poor braking capability will make you a better autocrosser. Those skills will translate to any other car you drive. It's all about input timing and aggression. The next upgrade would be to modify your Mustang to fix those flaws and use your solid driving fundamentals to get the most out of those mods.
@@warhorseracing Yeah i get your perspective, i watched the video and i'm not disagreeing with you. I actually feel the same way about Honda XR dirt bikes. They're good bikes to learn on because they are hard to ride. Along with 125 2 strokes. Those will teach you skills about riding than the best performance race bike will.
I get what you mean about the flaws translating to better driving skills, but if you agree that there are "factory installed flaws" Then what to you is a car without those flaws that you can then translate your new driving skill onto once you've built up a skill on a mustang.
You're saying the flaws are what make the car a good educational tool, because they teach you how to drive around the flaws and because you can upgrade and work on these cars and learn a lot about mechanics doing so and iron out some of the flaws in the car with chassis stiffening, sway bars, and rear IRS swap you can kind of tame some of the flaws. But if you agree, that the car inherently has flaws, then WHAT is a car that does not? What is the car that you can translate your driving skill onto with superior handling capabilites..
Cause obviously economic affordability is a huge plus for these mustangs, atleast in the past it was as they continue to climb in value, they're going from being a good learners tool to just another collectors car as time goes on.
Me personally I'd do a 03 focus svt, lightweight, front wheel drive fun
I've driven a few Focus STs when instructing novices at events. They are great cars; very good for autocross right from the factory.
I agree
That picute of the newedge at 5:38 looked odly similar to the lqk location that i go to it even has the bojangles billboard sign in the background XD
As a car guy Iv never really understood the hate for Mustangs. If you want a high HP car that will scare you ever time you push the gas pedal there's a mustang for that. If you want something that handles well and enough power fly through the straights there's a mustang for that. If you want just a Sunday cruiser convertible that's fun and is easy on the bank account there's a mustang for that. If you like cars in any way there is a mustang for you. There are other cars like the mustang for sure I just don't get the hate is all.
I instruct a lot of students who drive cars that aren't Mustangs. Part of instructing them is taking them for a ride-along. 90% of them say they didn't think a Mustang could do what mine just did. When I first started autocrossing, I was told I was "in the wrong car." Years later, many people thought my 2004 V6 would never be able to compete in its class. This channel exists to change people's minds about how good these cars can be. And to help them get their Mustangs to reach their full potential. Due to the efforts of a lot of Mustang autocrossers all over the country, people are starting to think of Mustangs differently. Someday these cars will get all the love they deserve.
i dont know how ford managed to make the new edge handle so well
How does a v6 perform? If you know about it. I’m trying to get into it but have a hard time deciding wether I should choose a v6 or a v8 with more power
One of my autocross cars is a 2004 IRS-swapped V6. You can check out the build by watching my "Mustang ST" playlist, and you can see how the car performs in several of my results videos ("232 CUBIC INCHES & 245 TIRES" is from this season). For autocross, horsepower isn't as important as handling. My 220 hp V6 has posted faster times than a number of V8s out on course. The V6 is a lighter car, with less weight up front, so it can be very nimble. The lack of torque does factor in on tight courses (it can be hard to dig out of slow elements). And, if you are running in a class that doesn't allow you to upgrade to a Traction-Lok rear end, you'll have to deal with the open diff out on course. What SCCA Category/class do you plan on running in? That's a big factor in choosing between a V6 and a V8. My V6 runs in a class with very few restrictions on mods, which allows me to upgrade every aspect of its performance. I'm always happy to answer any questions you might have about autocross.
@@warhorseracing well I’m very new to all of this but my main thing I’m worried about is mod availability for the v6 in terms of handling stuff. I tried to do some research on if things we’re basically the same apart from the engines but couldn’t get a clear answer. I also don’t have SCCA events here where I live but they do hold occasional local club auto cross events which is like to enter, and the occasional track day of course: thank you for your help tho, this puts me a little more at ease.
@@joisetorres1775 I'm assuming you are talking about 94-04 V6 and V8 cars (they did make V6 Fox Body Mustangs). Most 94-04 aftermarket suspension parts will work on V6 and V8 SN95 Mustangs. Many local clubs follow SCCA classing rules, but some have their own rules. If you are new to autocross, it's always a good idea to decide on a class, determine your goals for performance driving, and figure out your budget before choosing a Mustang to build. Focus on driving fundamentals first (I cover many of them in my videos). As you get more experience, you'll be better able to choose mods that suit your driving style. It's important to note that you don't have to make any mods to start autocrossing. If you have questions about mods, please ask.
@@warhorseracing sorry for not being specific enough but yeah I’m mostly talking about the new edge mustang. I’ll for sure do some more research on my local club and see what classes there is before jumping in, thank you sm
I own 63 falcon, 86 mustang and a 97 miata. The miata has swaybars afco coil overs adjustable rear control arms roll bar header and exhaust with decent tires, but if I had to stick with one to daily, auto cross, and drag race it would be the mustang there great for everything except snow.
I've always liked Falcons. And I get to ride in all sorts of cool Miatas when I instruct at events. I really enjoy seeing all the ways people modify their Mustangs to suit whatever form of racing they're interested in.
@@warhorseracing all of my cars are primarily for the street but the falcon is set up more for drag racing so I want to set up my mustang for more of an auto cross car. It'll definitely be slow with the 2.3 but probably lots of fun
@@8.2deck I've been encouraged by the performance numbers I've found while researching 2.3L engine upgrades. I'm really excited to see what my car will be able to do when it's finished. It's also great to hear that another 2.3L Mustang will be out on an autocross course. You're going to have a blast autocrossing your Mustang!
Except yours keeps getting beat by s197 on Hankook R-S4. :)
But I'm getting closer and closer and closer...
You're making me nostalgic for my 93' mustang I had right after college. That was a great car. The four cylinder was underpowered and you really had to know the torque curve to get the most out of it, it both understeered and oversteered, reacting badly to sudden or large inputs. If you loaded more than 800 lbs the rear end groaned...
I replaced it with a 04 GTO. That GTO was everything that my Mustang wasn't. Fast, predictable handling and never complained on a road trip if you had large passengers. Years later I missed my Mustang. That lousy car had one thing that my newer and "better" cars lacked: Personality. If I had known 20 years ago, what I know now from my autocross and mechanical experience, I'd still have that Mustang on the side of the house as my autocross toy. Maybe someday I'll get another Fox body. But until that day comes, I drive another quirky Ford, that seats all three of my kids as a daily driver. And while it is a very different platform, my mustang experience was influential in picking it over many other import cars in the same class.
A 15' FoST. ;) It will have to do till the kids are old enough to drive themselves and I can be Foxy again.
When he says there is a mustang for everyone and every budget, I hope you guys understand how literal he is. You can find just about anything you want for cheap
There are a lot of these cars out there. And, with the right mods, you can make any 79-04 Mustang a fun, fast autocross car!
Yep. I go to an autocross and see everything from Fox bodies to a 2022 GT500. The Fox/SN95 cars might outnumber the new ones, but it's close. One of my favorites is the gray SN95 with the raunchy idle and the sticker on the spoiler that says "Game Of Cones". :)
@@danielcamacho1913 Mustangs for life
is it worth autocrossing an auto car or should I start looking into a manual swap?
I have instructed a few people driving automatic Mustangs at autocross events. On SN95 Mustangs, I usually have them put the car in 2nd and lock out overdrive. There is some lag with the automatic, and it's really important to keep the revs up out on course. Driving an automatic will teach you a lot about early throttle application, and the cost of braking too much. Don't let the fact that your Mustang is an automatic keep you from autocrossing.
is the 2015 Mustang good?
Yes. The s550 Mustangs handle very well. They have become popular autocross cars. I get to drive a lot of them when I'm instructing and I am always impressed with how good they are in stock form.
What if I own an automatic new edge?
I've instructed a few novices in automatic New Edge Mustangs. I have them put the car in 2nd gear and lock out overdrive. The automatic tends to bog down at low rpm, so it's important to keep the revs up. Autocrossing an automatic will teach you a lot about early throttle application, especially if you have to dig out of slow elements. Don't let the fact that your car is an automatic keep you from giving autocross a try.
Broken Mach 1: 7,000$
Fix: 3,000$
Coils: 1,200$
4.10 gears:1,500$
SVT rims: 700$
Big brake kit: 2,500$
Boom. Awesome autoX killer
Agreed, with the right driver.. Do you think Eibach sportline springs are too low for autocross? Approx 2" front and 1.7" rear.
Luke, I think any driver can learn to be a great autocrosser in these cars. They're awesome at teaching throttle control and the importance of minimizing steering inputs. I do think the Eibach Sportline springs are too low for autocross. 2" and 1.7" means this would be a 94-04 Mustang, right? If your car has a Solid Rear Axle, I'd recommend Ford Racing M-5300-C springs: .75" F, 1.125" R. I used them on my 2000 GT for years before I put in the IRS and they worked really well. I use Steeda Sport springs on the front of my 2004 V6: 1.125" F&R. If you like Eibach, the Pro Kit is a good option: 1.1" F&R. I also use Poly Isolators, so the car ends up sitting about .25" higher. In my experience, Mustangs that sit higher handle better on an autocross course than Mustangs that are very low. A good balance between ride height, sway bar size and chassis stiffness helps too.
@@warhorseracing Agreed. I'm upgrading from the previous owners cut springs and stock shocks and struts on a 2003 Mustang V6. Definitely needs it and I can't wait. I already found a kit from LMR with Eibach Pros, Shocks struts, sway bars mounts and bushing, poly iso, and mm cc plates. I'll also be getting mm solid steering rack bushings. Debating on bumpsteer kit, and maybe tubular A-arms with Steeda x2 ball joints. Great videos. Very helpful insight. Thanks
@@millerluke1996 I would recommend adjustable shocks and struts. They will make a huge difference in getting the car to handle out on course. The Steeda adjustable rear sway bar is an inexpensive way to control understeer/oversteer (and you can easily make adjustments at events). I have never used bump steer kits (because my cars aren't super low), and I haven't felt the need to install them on my cars. The V6 benefits a lot from roller rockers. They strengthen the valve train and the 1.8 ratio version adds some power. I still use factory A-arms on my V6 because I'm right at the CAM-C limit of 3,300 lbs. I would consider holding off on the A-arms and bump steer kit and spend that money on the roller rockers. You spend a lot of time at or near the rev limiter when you're autocrossing and that can be tough on our 3.8s. Thanks for checking out my videos. I'm glad they're helping people.
@@millerluke1996 If you watch my "1979-2004 Mustang Budget Autocross Modifications" Playlist, you'll see the mods I recommend. Being able to adjust the suspension is really important for an autocross Mustang. There are some elements in the LMR kit that aren't ideal for getting the most adjustability on the car. I think you can get more bang-for-the-buck than the kit provides by picking and choosing the best parts from multiple companies.
Sure
That IRS looks heavy.
The IRS weighs about 80 lbs. more than an 8.8 Solid Rear Axle. But, that added weight will help the overall weight balance of the car.
@@warhorseracing Thanks for the response. Are you allowed to ballast your car? Can you add weight to the right side to offset driver weight?
@@jimjonrs3932 Some Categories and Classes have a minimum weight requirement. For example: In CAM-T, where many 79-04 Mustangs run these days, the minimum weight is 3,000 lbs. without the driver. You can add weight to balance out the car, if need be. Or you can use lightweight parts and mass centralization to balance the car. Check out my "Mustang ST Part 3: The Power of Balance" video (That video was made when the car was in CAM-C with a higher minimum weight, but the approach still applies). You just need to make sure the car meets minimum weight. Also, if you have coil overs, you can set the balance of the car to compensate for the driver's weight. But, not all SCCA Categories allow for adding ballast, so you should check the SCCA rules for your specific Category.
Just to nitpick as an avid Mustang enthusiast - there is no distinction between "SN95" and "New Edge," other than the body. New Edge ponies still use the SN95 chassis, so SN95s are 1994-2004. "New Edge" is just a marketing term Ford came up with that applied to their 99-up body styles that had sharp edges instead of rounded. The 2nd Gen Focus also uses the "New Edge" body. "New Edge" can be used to specify the 99-04 bodystyle of the Mustang, but should not be suggested that it's a successor to SN95.
Also -- I hate to disagree, but while I concur 79-04 Mustangs are the best platforms for autocross/road racing for _Mustangs,_ they are by no means the best platforms overall. A Mazda Miata (or any similar roadster) is going to pummel a Mustang dodging cones - I've seen it firsthand at autocrosses. Likewise, a Mustang is too heavy to compete with something designed specifically for cornering, like Toyota's Corolla AE86 or Mazda's RX-7 FD3.
My SN95 was fitted with coilovers, FR500 wheels, 295 tires, CAI, long tube headers, full exhaust, custom tuned ECU, aftermarket coil pack, ignition wires, NGK plugs, stage 2 clutch, limited slip differential, 3.73 gears, etc and I got absolutely obliterated by a Mitsubishi Evo. There's no way my RWD is going to hug the road like an AWD.
Yes, all 94-04 Mustangs are "SN95" Mustangs. They all have the same chassis. There are subtle, but important mechanical differences between 94-98 Mustangs and 99-04 Mustangs. Those differences have created a distinction between the two body styles among enthusiasts. Calling the 99-04 Mustangs "New Edge" and the 94-98 Mustangs "SN95" makes it easier when talking about things like the front brake calipers and the rear axle width. For example: putting 2-piston "New Edge" front brake calipers on an "SN95" Mustang that came with single-piston front brake calipers.
The point I was making in this video is that 79-04 Mustangs are the best autocross cars because they will teach you more about performance driving than the other cars that are commonly considered better for autocross, and there are more options in terms of engine size, power adders, and suspension than most other car models. A bone stock Mazda Miata (and several other cars) are great autocross cars right from the factory. They are relatively easy to drive at the limit, and designed to carve corners. 79-04 Mustangs have "factory-installed flaws" that make them harder to drive at the limit. Learning to drive around those flaws will make you a better autocrosser. It's very hard to find another car that can be as challenging to drive in stock form, and as capable when modified. It can often be better for your overall performance driving education to drive a car that wasn't built with autocross in mind.
My cars don't have coil overs, and my 2004 IRS -swapped V6 is a faster autocross car than my 2000 IRS-swapped GT, despite having nearly 100 less horsepower. Both of those cars have posted faster times than many cars that, on paper, should be much faster on an autocross course. Yes, it is hard for a Mustang to match the grip level of an AWD Evo, but it's not impossible to get your Mustang to run faster times than an Evo with the right setup. I've been fortunate to race with some very fast drivers who have built incredibly capable Mustangs. It's amazing what these cars can do. If you ever have any questions about your setup, I'm always happy to help.
@@warhorseracing
*_There are subtle, but important mechanical differences between 94-98 Mustangs and 99-04 Mustangs._*
I'm aware of that - I've owned a 95, and currently own a 2000. (Both V6/5 speeds)
I was simply pointing out that it's misleading to say, "SN95 or New Edge" because that implies the two are different Mustangs altogether when they aren't. Nearly 90% of components are interchangeable between 94-98s & 99-04s because they share the same chassis.
For example, saying "SN95 or S197" is accurate, because they are different cars; very little is directly interchangeable between them.
*_For example: putting 2-piston "New Edge" front brake calipers on an "SN95" Mustang that came with single-piston front brake calipers._*
Again, I understand the reasons why enthusiasts have adopted this distinction, but it's still inaccurate. Using New Edge calipers is STILL using SN95 calipers; just from a later year model.
Saying, "Swap to New Edge calipers" is fine, because it specifies the year models rather than incorrectly implying that only 94-98s are SN95s.
As I said, I hate to be so nit picky, but I've seen this mistake so many times from so many owners, some of which will even swear up and down that I'm wrong and that 99-04s are NOT SN95s.
^ And therein lies my problem. As long as people keep misusing the terms, it spreads misinformation about the era and now you've got a community of Mustang owners driving New Edge ponies who _THINK_ they _DON'T_ have an SN95.
Regarding your video content, I may have posted my initial comment prematurely; after watching the full vid, I understood the point you were making and I agree. I've also autocrossed my V6 SN95 (although never when it was stock) and they're definitely a lot of bulk to sling around the course.
Personally, I prefer the visual style of the Foxes and the SN95s to the S197s & S550s.
The latter two are a wee bit too heavy for carving corners, IMO. I've seen in-car footage of a S550 at Barber Motorsports Park trying to chase down a Foxbody. It could close the gap in the straights, but would get left behind in the corners.
*_and my 2004 IRS -swapped V6 is a faster autocross car than my 2000 IRS-swapped GT, despite having nearly 100 less horsepower._*
Horsepower is often not the winning strategy in autocross. Miatas don't make anywhere near that power, but are small and nimble. The Nissan R34 makes twice the power of an AE86, but can't out-corner it.
*_Yes, it is hard for a Mustang to match the grip level of an AWD Evo_*
To be fair, this particular Evo was heavily modified with wider tires, full suspension modifications, splitters, etc. We weren't in the same class, so it was no biggie.
*_It's amazing what these cars can do. If you ever have any questions about your setup, I'm always happy to help._*
Unfortunately, my Stang has been parked in the garage since 2012; a rod exited via the oil pan and I've since yanked the motor out with plans to rebuild it as a bored/stroke 4.3 making around 300 hp. Also planning to revamp the suspension, brakes, etc. Basically planning to set it up as a full autocross/road course car.
Alas, I got neck-deep in a restoration project for my 1994 Ranger Splash, and can't juggle two projects at once.
@@sixstanger00 I respect your passion for accuracy. Using "New Edge" has become so prevalent, that it will be a hard habit for people to break. But, I agree with your point. As an instructor, I've been able to autocross many different cars. In my experience, a properly modified s197 can be a very good autocross car. And the newer s550 Mustangs, especially the GT350/R can be pretty impressive out on course without any major mods (just a good alignment/200TW tires). I'm usually about 1 second faster in an s550 than I am in my IRS-swapped cars. The limit of rear grip in the s550 Mustang is pretty far out. For a big car, they handle really well. If you have a few minutes to check out some of my other videos, you will see we agree on the idea that autocross is not about horsepower. I built my 2004 V6 to prove that autocross is more about handling ability and driving skill. It was basically built to be a big Miata. Hopefully, winning a local CAM PAX Class championship in that car in 2019 helped convince people. I hope you're able to get your Mustang back out on course soon.
@@sixstanger00 damn dude, just breathe.
What autocross work in an auto?
I've had a few students that had automatic transmissions in their Mustangs. On a Fox with an AOD, you generally put the car into 2nd and leave it there. You would do the same thing in a 94-04, but you would also lock out overdrive. I wouldn't recommend trying to shift the automatic yourself.
Warhorse Racing by lockout, that means burning up, messing up the overdrive?
@@champking20 On 94-04 cars with the AODE, there is a little button on the shifter handle marked "O/D" that allows you to "lock out" overdrive. Basically, it prevents the transmission from going into overdrive. I know this button is on the 99-04 Mustangs, and I'm pretty sure the 94-98 cars had this feature as well.
Warhorse Racing I figured, a lot of people have different meanings of lockout. I can’t wait to get in a fox soon
If you have any more questions, please ask. I'm always happy to help.
As much as I love mustangs because they are surely the best looking but for less money the Camaro f body can easily outperform the sn95. It's compatible with Corvette suspension parts and cost much less. I hate to say it but even 3rd gen Camaros can out perform sn95. Sad but true. Yet here I am driving a clean sn95.lol
I wish I saw more 3rd and 4th generation Camaros out at autocross events. There's nothing better than a great rivalry between two cars that can be built to do incredible things. I've driven several 3rd and 4th generation Camaros and Firebirds for students over the years, and I can't say that I agree that they would "easily" outperform the SN95. GM did put some very good suspension systems under some of those cars. But, Mustangs take modifications better than most cars. They get exponentially more capable as you mod them. The best part about autocross is that it's a great way to continue and settle rivalries between cars.
@@warhorseracing here is some more insight on were I learned more about the f body chassis. I'm not saying your completely wrong but Camaros have started out with a better chassis and suspension setup as far as 3rd-6th gen Camaros go.
czcams.com/video/4ZsBr5a1cuo/video.html
I love my fox and its set up for dual duty road race but this is a click bait video pandering to ford enthusiasts. They are no doubt great in some respects but all foxes and sn95s suffer from severe understeer, plow, and chassis flex. Get an ek if you want to do autox on a budget and contend. Just being honest and trying to save everyone thousands of dollars.
I'm going to respectfully disagree that this video is "click bait". If you watch my other videos, you'll see that my channel is all about facts, proven autocross advice, and results. I'm always honest about the issues stock 79-04 Mustangs have. Learning to drive around those issues will make you a better driver. But, if you want to address those issues, you can, even in Street Category. You can bolt in or weld in a roll bar, or you can bolt in a roll cage to reduce chassis flex. You can install adjustable shocks & struts, along with a larger rear sway bar to get the car neutral. It doesn't take a lot of mods, or a lot of money, to make these cars much better than stock. For years, my 2000 GT convertible WITHOUT an aftermarket K-member, coil overs, roll bar/roll cage, Panhard bar, or Torque Arm was very competitive in CAM at my local events. And, I once drove a student's bone stock New Edge V6 on all-season tires to around 2 seconds off my time in CAM (which was also a pretty good time relative to the other cars at the event). The misconception that 79-04 Mustangs have to be completely rebuilt from the ground up to be autocrossed is preventing more people from autocrossing their Mustangs. I show my mods, my wins, and my losses to provide an accurate account of what these cars are capable of, and to build a trustworthy resource for people autocrossing their 79-04 Mustangs. I'm never going to post a click bait video.
@@warhorseracing your video’s title say “why foxbody mustangs are the best autox cars”. That’s a lie. I’m sure you know they aren’t. Roll bars, pan hard bars, spherical bushings, etc can not replace the issues that come with front a arm suspension overloaded by having nearly four cylinders hanging off the shock towers. Dollar for dollar, win for win, you can’t beat a double wishbone civic on sticky tires and konis/gcs. I have both, I’ve autoxd both, I’m just being honest and telling folks that without a good clean 6k you won’t be able to be competitive in a fox platform. That’s without the price of the fox.
@@macmurati I don’t lie. In life, in autocross, or in my videos. I do believe that 79-04 Mustangs are the best autocross cars ever made. My criteria might be different than yours. It’s not about performance right out of the box, or performance based on the fewest mods/least money invested. It’s about the total experience as it relates to your performance driving journey. It takes a skilled driver to post a competitive time in Street Category in a 79-04 Mustang. It’s hard to do, but it’s not impossible. And the mods allowed in Street Category wouldn’t cost $6K. Is someone going to set FTD in a Street Category 79-04 Mustang? Probably not. But, they’ll learn a lot about managing steering, throttle, and braking inputs. To me, that’s what autocross is about: becoming a better driver in the car you want to drive, with the mods you’re willing/able to make. For example: If someone doesn’t want to fight the weight of a V8 engine, there are 4-cylinder and V6 models available. There are multiple SCCA Categories where 79-04 Mustangs can use the rules to make the right mods to be competitive. In those SCCA Categories, autocrossing a car that’s anywhere from 19 to 42 years old does require more investment. But, there’s a big return on that investment. I have the privilege (and the challenge) of running against 79-04 Mustangs that regularly post faster times than “traditional” autocross cars. I’ve run faster (and slower) than modified Civics, Miatas, and BMWs in my Mustangs. I’ve run faster than cars that cost 3 to 5 times as much as what I have in my Mustangs. I respect your POV and your experience. My experience has informed my POV about these cars. I know not everyone thinks the way I do about them, but I’m going to keep doing all I can to prove how good these cars can be.
put those cones closer together and youll change your tune real quick
reason #2 makes me not want one anymore back to bmw or maybe rwd conversion audi lmao
not getting it specifically for autocross just want a fun rwd manual car for 5k
@@cleanname4439I've driven a lot of different cars at autocross events. There are some great BMWs and Audis out there. If you're given an opportunity to ride along in a 79-04 Mustang being driven by an experienced autocrosser, do it. You'll see how much fun they can be. Whichever car you choose, I hope you take it to an autocross event.
Steve saleen was beating Porsche and bmw in these cars, that should tell you all you need to know.
It still surprises me that these cars are mostly overlooked for autocross, despite having a ton of racing success in the past.
@@warhorseracing they are used SO much for drag racing people just don’t realize.
Oh lord lol
Pft. Try it in a 1st gen
The real reason they're the best is that they're the worst? I guess the best project car is the one that never runs lol
New edge is very fun.
Laughs in stock miata...
"but have bought into the common misconception that 1979-2004 Mustangs aren’t capable of carving corners around cones. "
Because they aren't. Unless you spend a shit-ton of time and money, the stock suspension is fucking trash for cornering. Ford didn't bother improving the non-Cobras at all since '79. You're 1000% better off in a Miata with 225s if you want autocross dominance.
As an autocross instructor, I've been lucky enough to drive all of the popular autocross cars out there. And for years I was told I was "in the wrong car" when I showed up in my Mustangs. Yes, out of the box, a Miata is a very capable autocross car. But, from an instructor's POV, learning to drive around the issues inherent in the Fox/SN95 platform will make you a better driver. These cars teach patience, throttle-modulation and how to time your braking zones better than many other cars. So, as crazy as it sounds, its flaws make it good. I have used the budget mods I showcase on my channel to win local CAM Class championships against modern cars with way more expensive mods and more horsepower. I don't use coil overs or aftermarket K-members. And I've driven a student's bone-stock New Edge V6 to within 2 seconds of my time in my IRS-swapped CAM-prepped New Edge. If I can do that, anyone can. These cars are better than most people think they are. And with just a few mods, they can be competitive autocross cars and win class championships. No matter what you drive, I hope you're autocrossing your car and having a blast!
Lol