Drinker's Chasers - When Companies Bend The Knee
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- čas přidán 1. 05. 2022
- The first step when companies get taken over by activists is to proclaim that their product is "for everyone". Then proceed to slowly alienate and push out the very fans who made them successful.
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"It's for everyone" is just code for "it's ours now and you aren't welcome anymore" to these people.
The Russoaeuian ideal. You defy us, you are not a person.
Kinda the vibe I get from WoTC D&D too.
Yep.
Just more writhing tentacles sliding in to subvert and overtake yet another established icon or community.
Nahh it's code for, no one will like this ever again, fun sucking time!
One of the go-to mantras of wokists is to walk into a dinner party, start spewing politics, and then respond with "this dinner party was always political."
"Comic books were always political." "Science fiction was always political." "Fantasy was always political." On and on.
There's no such thing as a franchise that's, "for everyone." There's always going to be someone who doesn't like something, and there's nothing wrong with that. This quest to make things, "for everyone," is a fools errand, and things made like this won't actually be for anyone.
If you look at Warhammer prices it's clearly not for everyone.
Yes, Barbershop and Madea franchise are "for everyone"
Nothing is for everyone. The second something would be, nobody would care anymore. Not even food is for everyone and that´s an essential thing to survive.
FFS, nothing is for everyone.
Harry Potter? Not for everyone.
Avatar, The Last Airbender? Not for everyone.
Avatar (James Cameron)? Not for everyone.
Fast & Furious? Not for everyone.
The Hobbit Trilogy? Not for everyone.
Gears of War? Not for everyone.
FFS - do these same brainlets actually believe that, say, *Batwoman* on the CW was for *everyone?*
That's why most video games are shit too.
‘Better we had burned in the fires of Horus’ ambition than lived to see this.’
Guilliman speaking for the rest of us.
Thats, sadly, is true
the problem with making GW 'inclusive' so everyone can play with a character they relate to is that if you do 'relate' to ANY faction or character from the 40k universe you need to be put on some form of watch list and seek professional help immediately
ROTFLMAO...yet so true!
Yes it's a universe full of assholes, monsters, and psychopaths. You're not suppose to 'feel' for a particular individual, necessarily. It's about survival, and using whatever resources at your disposal to scratch and claw your way to victory, coz victory means your civilization gets to live a little bit longer. Natural Selection on a galaxy wide scale.
😂🤣 absolutely!
Except if you're backing Farsight Enclaves.
Yeah other than imperium you mean right ?
You're not a traitor ? Or a heretic or a xenos ? Right fellow citizen ?
*bolter ready to go full auto*
40k is one of the few universes were xenophobia is perfectly reasonable.
Not familiar with the rape gangs Leftists are importing, are you?
And encouraged!
How dare you not accept a genestealer wanting to eat you bigot!!?
Xenophobia is always rather reasonable. Yes, on an individual level it may be cruel to make an outsider feel unwelcome or even to deny someone access to your nation or community. But on the scale of societies and nations (and, yes, hobbies), whether intentional or not many outsiders will come looking for what they can take from you or how they can make you fit their expectations, not accept you as you are or be willing to assimilate into your community (not without intense societal pressure and threat of mob violence). Baring your belly for foreign powers will only ever result in the erasure of your people's heritage and, many times, their lives and bloodlines. And homogeneity almost never favors the exceptional, but the lowest common denominator.
Necrons are half living death machines that hate and want to eradicate all life. Tau are ideologically possessed space commies that are nice as fuck to you until you don't do what they say. The tyranids are a mindless horde of biological space horrors that only live to consume and multiply. The orks are completely incapable of reason and only care about killing and bullying. The dark eldar are bdsm fanatics whose entire culture is based on perversion, torture and slavery. The regular eldar think their lives are worth infinitely more than that of other races and really don't care how many humans they have to kill to achieve their goals. I'd say if I had to live in a galaxy with these fuckers lurking about, is he pretty damn careful who I wanted as my neighbour.
the worst part is that "for everyone" means for anyone but the fans who love the franchise
The decision making lies with the owners of the company which have leftist views.
it means for fans that aren't just white guys.
@@stevenlannister184 Even Black people have come out against stuff like this, like Eric July. So no, it's not just anti-white.
I don't know where you're getting that from.
Any time a nerdy niche hobby like Warhammer gets popular and the company behind it sees the potential to break out into the mainstream, they'll start streamlining it, sanding off the rough edges and pushing out all of the icky nerds who might scare off the normies. These days that means introducing IRL social politics to their fantasy setting and performatively scolding the gross nerds who don't play along with it. It almost never works out well because they're basically gutting their existing fanbase in favor of a potential new group of fans who may or may not exist.
"It's for everyone"
Was once an honorable phrase that meant It's so good, almost anyone could enjoy it.
But now it's to disguise the mediocrity in the vale of "universal appeal".
Agreed. I would only qualify that “ vale” as the most shallow form of “representation”; namely, skin color and genitalia.
The Imperium literally has pastoral agri-worlds, luxury resort planets, shining shrine worlds full of glittering spires, and entire systems devoted to preserving natural wildlife. Yeah, a lot of the imperium is shit, but there's whole systems that are being protected specifically because of how important and pristine they are.
but only for the rich...
@@ughno6757 or the particularly ruthless
Out of 1 million worlds, that's probably like 10 or 20 give or take.
@@jonathanathor117 that's a lot considering the majority of planets are just gaseous blobs or rocky wastelands.
The phrase “... is for everyone” or “... for a modern audience” is a death sentence. We have seen the results of companies saying these lines too many times ...
I say more the lines of “being more diverse and inclusive” is the death sentence, because they will always say this, and that’s when you know an activists wrote that sh*t.
Modern audience, aka We only do cultural research on a biased platform soooo Dead on Arrival. Perhaps All these companies should back to focus groups.
not even close to the only death sentences these companies throw down...
The KOTOR remake
So these companies are also hiring Diverse and inclusive staffs, so basically they only hire people of color and gender ratio not based of Talent, we can see that from State of all modern games.
"If you don't like it, you can leave."
Which is basically the same thing as saying, "f*** you, existing fan base. We'll stop taking your guaranteed dollar for this non-existent new one that hopefully pops up when you're gone."
They're most likely receiving ESGs from massive firms like Blackrock, which themselves get funding from our governments. So why should they chase your dollar when they're picking your pocket in the first place?
Trying to appease a fan base that was never going to buy their overpriced plastic.
You would think that they would have started to learn their lesson by now
G4tv Frosk said that…. And the fans left
let them enjoy the Twittermob $ :D. Will it be enough to get a single intercessors pack? let's sit back and enjoy the show
I've been playing games my entire life, no one was ever excluded based on race, sex, class, religion, orientation etc. It's by far the most inclusive set of hobbies I know of by those metrics. Yeah the clubs I joined were only 1/3rd female on a campus that was 2/3rds female but it strikes me as utterly bizarre that suddenly it's an issue that guys disproportionately like games while it's not an issue that women disproportionately receive higher education.
Making the games less engaging, the worlds less interesting, less unique, less 'offensive' and overall less appealing to your core audience for the sake of people who do not care about your game is like ripping out the foundation of your house to use as material to build a second floor, You'll lose as much as you gain and likely end up with a broken pile of scrap that no one cares about any more.
We have the strange reality that an university that is 2/3rds female is considered healthy and good but a game that has only a 1/3 female player base is problematic. It's like they cannot accept that some things will attract men more then women, and that HAS to be fixed. Whereas the reverse is no problem at all, even though 2/3rds of all students in academia being women poses immense social and political problems for society. Not the least of which for those women themselves, because they will have an immense problem finding a suitable mate.
In this stunning and brave new world only quotas will do
You’re absolutely correct the gaming community is rather diverse.I gamed for over 20 years and I saw people from every walk of life. Hell, in our group we had people from the Asian community, blacks, females, hispanics and others and even a trans person. And as occupations go it ran the gauntlet from lawyers and executives all the way down to a janitor. And none of that mattered it was all about the love of the game.
These are nerd hobbies and nerds have always been inclusive. Women were never excluded. They didn't join because they either weren't interested, and/or because they didn't want to associate with the nerds (same with many guys). But nerds always wished more would join. Nerds were the social outcasts of every race, religion, etc. united by their mutual interests and outcast status. But when being inclusive finally became popular among those who used to bully this group, and they realized that a lot of nerdy stuff was actually kinda cool, they started a war against the nerds, first with stuff like gamergate, and later with similar rhetoric around toxic fandoms in other nerd interests (sci fi and fantasy franchises, DnD, etc.).
The new message became that nerds are somehow the non inclusive ones and toxic, when in reality these interests only became toxic when the non nerds got into them. The mainstream's excuse for why they didn't take interest before became "because we were excluded," because no one now would ever say "I never gave this stuff a chance before because I was simpleminded and prejudiced against (and may have bullied) the sometimes socially awkward but mostly nice and harmless group of people who loved this stuff."
@@DavidSmith-mt7tb 100%
When it's not for them it's 'bigoted' and problematic and must change in the name of progress.
When it's not for us just deal with it, get out and make your own.
This tactic can easily be turned around but for some reason people refuse to do it.
Yeah, the woke people aren't capable of making anything
Warhammer is for everyone who likes it, it's not made to make EVERYONE happy. When you try to make everyone happy, you make everyone unhappy with the end result.
Trying to have something for everyone, you end with something that appeal to no one
"He who tries to please everyone pleases no one."
I heard a story about some SJW who wanted to try and make a none offensive to everyone fantasy world.
In the he/she abandoned it, Why?
Because that person simply couldn´t make the world interesting, it was BORING as all hell!
Turns out as you say when you try to pander to everyone nobody likes it.
Turns out that all those games, movies etc etc who succeeded and was memorable, was someone who found a niece market and stuck to doing what it did best.
Like games that will stomp your face into the pavement repeatably this its nothing but a red mush, only to have you come crawling back for a second go at it.
Hello From software´s games.
Same thing with movies lets say i enjoyed movies where a huge muscly man run around and kick the crap out of bad guys.
Well hello almost every Arnold movie out there.
Again those that where memorable where those that said we can´t please everyone, so we will just please the targeted audience.
the only prejudice they hold is against good ideas
Trying to make something to appeal to everyone makes that thing incredibly bland and toothless. A great work of art is going to make people feel uncomfortable, sad and maybe a little angry at times. Because you need to put your audience through an emotional rollercoaster to give them a worthwhile experience. If you create something that makes people feel safe and happy throughout then there is no emotional depth, thus the audience takes nothing with them.
GW: "Our game is for everyone!"
Also GW: "That box of five plastic men will be $70 please."
Imperial guard player here you have to turn to proxies or other companies unless you don’t want to mortgage your house
70? wow
@@christiangonzalez6945 I know, what a steal.
70??? Did things in price really change that much in the last 5 years that I quit?
I played admech and dark elves and remember admech box of 6-8 dudes being around 30-40
I bought ONE Tallyman last week and it was 23€.
“For everyone” is the poisoned version of “for anyone”. It’s equity of outcome, rather than equality of opportunity.
The irony is that the model of the game already allows for some level of personal customization of your own figures. As long as they play according to the rules of the game, you can make up some kind of trans sub squad of astartes with rainbow armor if you want when playing the game. By merely having the freedom to paint our own figures they can be whatever you want them to be. The game by design is already as inclusive as is possible, so why insert it all into the lore and world building?
Im already predicting theyre going to bring back Sanguinius as a trans character and say he was really trans all along which is why he was one of the Emporer's favorites. What a massive spit in the face of fans that would be.
An entire faction of space marine femboys running at you all uwu like. A spot in the back of their armor that opens up like PJs for reasons.
@@jaimeruiz7837 Pretty Marines
unrelated to 40k but your second paragraph about retconning reminded my of yesterday. My wife was listening to the free version of Spotify when an ad came on claiming that Abraham Lincoln was actually queer.
@@deathtakes hate to be that guy, but there's some light evidence that could support that hypothesis.
@@jaimeruiz7837 what a downgrade for the Bood Angels that it wouls be.
From Angels with Blood urges to Just... "UwU"ing their way into making peace with the orks...
The entire tabletop industry is run by the furthest left factions you can imagine. A game designer got banned for a picture of a frog on the manual of his game, which had its fingers positioned in such a way that if you crossed your eyes and were really looking hard, might possibly have been potentially a hate symbol.
The site that unites the game industry, board game geek, banned anyone who expressed a conservative or moderate opinion in their political forum. They also have the single worst set of moderation policies on any forum ever, banning any potentially offensive post, even ones that say "I disagree with your assessment".
The woke mob have well and truly destroyed the tabletop online community.
Players is the ones who have power now. When they get together to play they can and will totally discard retardations from GW...it is THAT Simple.
A "hate symbol" that was the OK sign, which was quite literally a cultural experiment performed by internet weirdos to see if they could get the outrage mob to panic over something completely innocuous. And it worked with resounding success, because these maniacs are always looking for something that oppresses them. Without (manufactured) oppression, they have no achievement.
So you need a super powerful electron microscope to see it?
You just want to talk dirty to underage kids.
The Globalist Left has taken over ever facet of human life in order to deliberately destroy it.
"You're a misogynist if you read Berserk."
"You're a fascist if you play/read 40k."
*I'm beginning to see a pattern here...*
Only now after them doing this for a decade by this point ?
@@guilhermehank4938 and the cycle continues...
You know Jon Stewart said something satirizing this very statement when he destroyed Glenn Beck. I believe, and I might getting details wrong, but he jokingly said “oh! So according to Glenn, if you subscribe to an ideology or even some facets of one, you must therefore agree/subscribe to EVERY extreme that comes with it! But that would be ridiculous.” Enjoying a FICTIONAL story about an over-the-top, war-driven universe does not make you a fascist.
Answer: Yes
ChadYes.jpg
"Why, yes indeed! How could you tell?"
I've thinking more and more about this. The more something is "for everyone", more milktoast and bland they are. Look at FromSoft games. They know their players, they know how they like the games. Incredibly hard anc challenging gameplay, and a convoluted story that you have to almost dig out of the game files. That's what keeps their fanbase hooked. It may not serve for a best seller title, or a game if the year, but it keeps their core audience engaged, and that's the point. An engaged smaller audience in much better for the health of a community over having a larger size, lest you end with a wave of popularity that quickly gives way to the next one.
the irony is that FromSoft have just launched a game which might be the best selling game of the year AND win GotY (which Sekiro also won). Yet, they still stick to their guns, do their things and let the game speak for itself.
@@malcolmalden exactly. They have achieved success without having to sell out their original audience in pursuit of the mythical wider audience.
@@GeraltofRivia22 based fromsoft
Correct. Gatekeeping isn't always a bad thing and sometimes downright necessary if you want to keep the creative drive intact behind your hobbies and beloved ip's.
@@SeeThomasHowl amen!
GW - "This hobby is for everyone."
Fans - "It is, and we don't want you to change it."
GW - "YOU'RE NOT WELCOME!"
“Warhammer is for everyone…. But it’s not for people with different views than us, pirating stuff from us, people who makes better content than us, low income and medium income demographic, and Russians because we support the current thing. Also let’s do business with China and ignore the concentration camps along with China being belligerent with their neighbors”
-GW
Scathing....and 100% true
A company that despises the fact that it has customers.
uh wow, gw is just as fucked up as their ip lore, it's sad that i like the necrons a lot and khorne a little bit, but... yeah in a galaxy like that M.A.D. should have happened since the very beginning.
Also, ngl the TTS series was the best take on warhammer 40k lore/series because the setting is so outrageously ridiculous that it can only be taken seriously by tongue and cheek. there are just too many conflicting well things going on, why is chaos so active if it's a chaotic force of nature? why the necrons just don't use their star-xplosion super weapon to fucking nuke the galaxy, the orks just brakes each and every law of physics on a daily basis, you can't make grimdark out of this and expect to work forever, hell trazyn is just a smash and grab troll that wants to make a goddamn museum.
One thing making these activists look crazy: "Russia bad. China? Um, uh...it has a unique culture."
What’s frustrating is that WH40k was, by nature, “diverse.” In the grim dark future where there is only war, every man, woman, child was an active participant in the world. There were two badass female factions (Sisters of Silence, Adepta Sororitas) and entire planets that were “culturally representative” without even trying. The people who want to bring modern politics and identities into the Imperium don’t understand the universe or, frankly, care to. And those people don’t deserve this franchise. (Also, yes, this whole “the Imperium is EVIL,” tune is infuriating because while it IS an uncaring, vicious beast, it’s because their enemies literally melt down men, women, and children to make space drugs, or murder bloodily. There is a reason that people who LOVE this lore don’t want to live in it)
the imperium its evil, and morals are broken in WH 40k, factions are beyond good and evil in a very nietzsche´an way, BY ALL STANDARS the imperium its evil, but again...
The Imperium are the good guys by default, because pretty much everyone else is worse.
@@christiangonzalez6945 It’s one reason I like the old world labels of “order” and “chaos.” The Imperium is “order.” It doesn’t necessarily mean GOOD, it’s just ORDER. Chaos is straight up bonkers and nobody orderly wants any part of what they’re selling.
No races in 40k are purely good or evil. That's the long and short of it.
Lets have a few trans "sister" and make Gorillaman gay and bang Yarrick. Because some nutcase out there needs this in order to enjoy Warhammer and buy the figures, possibly turning away a large chunk of the old fanbase. And then the idiots at GW hq scratch their heads while banging at the table
"why sales low? i need more money!"
"it's the nazis faut!, lets double down, make the entire Ultramarines gay and focus only on this in a new novel!"
"excellent idea!"
I knew nothing about WarHammer 40K, except the merchandise.
This conversation peaked my interest in the 40K Universe.
I started watching 40K Lore, Where to Start, Top 10, etc videos.
Which led me to the Black Library.
Which led me to my first 40k audiobook …….. KRIEG !!!
So glad I caught this podcast and this particular conversation.
Thank You.
Colonel Jurten approves this message
@@PrinceOfChange My dyslexic ass though you said Jurgen XD. while he would aprove he's just too busy making tanna
Glad to hear that. For the Emperor!
Never got into WH40k, but the community has my sympathies. Social Justice Wankers won't rest until everything thing is ruined.
Step One: Piss off and reject original fanbase (we are here).
Step Two: Try to replace original fanbase through identity politics and suck all the fun out of the IP.
Step Three: Reality sets in and that new shiny fictional fanbase fails to materialize (they never do).
Step Four: Activists leave the IP, which by now is a used empty husk and move on to something else.
Step Five: Get acquired by Bandai, then quietly killed off.
Being acquired by Bandai doesn’t sound too far off, 40k is huge in Japan.
It's always bizarre to see companies bend over backwards to appeal and engage with people who aren't actually doing much to support them. Like, the people demanding this nonsense from GW and 40K _are generally not buying much 40K stuff._ It's crazy.
@@kw9849 It makes a bit more sense when you realize the shots are being called by people who are themselves activists. The brand will either be repurposed or die and either outcome suits their needs.
@@guyfromboracay some anime in future? though I not really a fan of making 40k/30k anime, but it would mean they keep pure. And I do like anime, so it's that it doesn't fit 40k the best, but does also to the more demon/warp things and sisters of battle for obvious reasons.
@@tarektechmarine8209 If it's on Bandai the big change might be on the model kit end. They might even do what Gunpla did for accessibility and release a bunch of ez-snap fits with built in color separation and waterslide/sticker details to get people going really quick. At least for popular factions. And the general price might go down but not by much.
I've been playing 40K since the 90's and I am fully convinced that the GW management has been taken over by Slaanesh cultist over the last few years...
Pretty sure its Tzeentch not Slaanesh. Slaanesh would have more boobs and visual sexuality.
Tzeentch seems far more likely. All they can do is lie, double-think, and pander. And there seems to be no real endgame.
@Brendyn Hull Both.
with the amount of stagnation, laziness and overall rot I would think it's a nurgle cult
Nah it has to be Malice because they are trying to burn down their own IP by banning non- licensed 3rd parties like TTS and Sodaz
It was never about appeasing anyone Sargon, it's about destroying what you love.
Seeing these guys united is the greatest moment of my life!!! My favorite channels coming together!!!
I like the irony of a company saying their game is for everyone when they charge a fortune for plastic figures automatically shutting out a huge portion of people who can't afford it.
It's especially funny when you see how they've reacted to 3D printing, which has the potential to bring the hobby to everyone.
Well Hades, this is the reality of capitalism - it cannot exist in harmony with pure equity and communal principles. You must be able to scale your productivity and you must be able to secure an income stream from that productivity, otherwise it is a charity, and that doesn’t establish a person well in society.
They always hate capitalism until it’s time to sell you stuff, then it’s pay up.
Who cares what they say about it? Idk why fans are so stuck on paying these companies money.
Fans need to get together, start a small council and make their own game similar to it that is essentially BYOM.
Bring your own models.
Create lore for them and then take mechanics from other games and streamline them so that more people can play.
If other people wanna contribute to the cause they can donate or submit ideas. That’ll get run through the council. They’ll be invited to further explain how it’ll benefit the game in terms of experience, lore, etc. and then boom.
@@jaimeruiz7837 I haven't played tabletop for near a decade. I recently even stopped buying novels which was my only connection with Warhammer nowadays. Their quality has fallen so much that i just don't intend to waste my money on anything gw related.
Im aware that there's a certain thing going with 3d printers and people actually making models that look like Warhammer and rebranding them with different names etc to avoid copyright but I'm not sure how big that thing is.
I relate most to a race of 4 foot tall, squatty, giant nosed, Santa bearded, grumps.
I do not need my characters to look anything like me to enjoy them. What an unnecessarily straightjacketed approach to fantasy escapism!
Ikr. Stories should be about ideals, not narcissism.
(Sarcastically) I disagree i collect Tyranids and i wish the Bug/Xenomorph race looked and acted more human so i could relate to them. Currently i cant relate to a mass of swarming bodies roaming from place to place destroying the ecosystems and pillaging all the natural resources...... oh wait just like the human race... dont worry i can relate now
Around Elves, watch yourselves.
I can't lie the fact that the Tyranids basically go up to the T'au and say "fuck you we can do this shit better" makes me very happy
I enjoy the giant space bugs! Can it get much more opposite than a human?
this approach is marketing. It started with Starbucks when they sold coffee that was 'your own personal coffee.' People would spend five minutes explaining exactly how their 'individual' coffee was made. I stopped going yo Starbucks because of these annoying people. They need their products to reflect who they are. Companies started to sell narcissism. Narcissism was their marketing strategy.
This is "consumer" vs "customer" mentality.
As a "customer", you can be lost. You are someone they want to try and keep.
As a "consumer" you can't "be lost". You are "expected" to keep purchasing. They EXPECT your continued support regardless of direction because, and let's be honest here, we HAVE for the most part. A sort of, "if you aren't buying this, you aren't a 'fan' of this." mindset.
Every company seems determined to learn the hard way that telling your existing fanbase to "fuck off" is a bad move. We just need people to take advantage of the vacuum to replace these morons. I bet there's an entire marketing demographic for "remember when these games were about fun and escapism? We remember and we're bringing it back.". So let's do it people! Instead of griping about Warhammer.......let's replace it.
Okay. I have somewhat of a confession. I started 40k as a Covid project. I've got a VERY large army of Necrons. Every shard, every vehicle, even the Silent King. They look gorgeous. I have yet to play a game.
As a fellow necron “player” I approve this comment
@@PrinceOfChange My brother of living metal.
People conflate "everyone" with "anyone"
Just like Anton Ego from ratatouille said
"Not everyone can become a great artist, but a great artist can come from anywhere."
A certain hobby won't appeal to everyone, but anyone who feels engaged by it can appreciate it.
I've seen the tabletop hobby as "Everyone is welcome, not everyone will enjoy.", marketing in any other way is foolish.
It sounds like the current GW marketing is "everyone who's not a bigot is welcome." Given how many people here are whining about "wokeness" or "SJWs" or "identity politics" and one of the guys in the video complaining about the idea of the Imperium of Man making use of people of any gender identity, I guess the bigots are getting the message. 😄
The worse thing about GW is attacking fan channels that were the best promotion they could hope to have
and they attacked and bullied them! Truly they are a inclusive company!
They even butchered 'Astartes'. Possibly the best marketing they've had in their company's history; which they got for FREE, and they struck it, then bought it, then they changed it.
The animation and lore videos from fans are what brought me into 40K a few years ago
@@Naptosis And from what I've heard from third parties, their streaming service is struggling to get a proper hit off the ground. How is that even POSSIBLE, if you have freakin' 40K as your UNIVERSE? :/
@@sigmacademy Do you think it's going to be another CNN+?
Don't forget the crappy NDAs, which were leaked because no one's afraid of the potential legal ramifications.
You aren't really supposed to ''relate to'' or feel ''represented by'' by the characters in 40k. The whole point is that it's a grimdark world full of assholes. Hell- most of the factions are meant to be dunking on their real life equivalents in satirical mockery.
What about ciaphas cain
Like Necromunda.
@Jarlath Quinn “C-C-C-ciaphas Cain! Hero of the imperium!”
The minute I hear terms like, "for everyone", and "a broader audience", I am immediately telegraphed that my money no longer matters to them. I am no longer their target audience. And you know what? That's fine. I've done it before (too many times to count, in fact), and I will do it again. As many times as I need to. Star Trek, Star Wars, Dr. Who, Magic: the Gathering, Dungeons & Dragons, Lord of the Rings, Halo... What makes Warhammer think that they can have their cake and eat it too? You wanna fuck up the business model you had going? Fine. I won't be there to help rescue you as your shop sinks into the abyss of obscurity. I'll be where my money is respected and appreciated, where my time is spent more than my money, and where the creators understand that the minute they try to appease everyone then they instantly appease no one. Especially in a hobby that's so niche, why do they think they can invest in a group that abandons them as soon as they stop trending? That's who they're trying to gain the attention of! Don't believe me? Ask CBS investors how well that's going for them. In the interim, I'm moving on to DRG. ROCK AND STONE!
why magic became woke? seriously i hadn't noticed it...
MTG really hurt
@@zanir2387 They did. If you read the shit they squeeze out between their anuses aflame, if you pay attention to their "White males need not apply" updates for hiring practices, you'll find that they hate you if you don't stand with their woke agenda.
@@BigSeanH It did. I haven't bought a single card from them in 2 years. Occasionally I will play the odd game of Commander with friends who don't care about/support woke bullshit and I won't really say anything other than I just don't wanna spend money on cards anymore. But at the end of the day, I am spending my money where it is wanted.
ROCK AND STONE BROTHER!
I will never understand why people need someone to look like them to relate and like a character :/
Narcisism?
@@spaceman2517
Beat me to it.
People like them can't stand there are other people who look, think and act differently to them.
It's because they're 85 IQ'ers. They don't have the mental faculties required to put themselves in someone else's shoes, nor to understand that others possess this ability.
Likewise these are many of the same people who can't tell the difference between depictions of evil acts in fiction and advocacy of those acts by the author.
Anything that requires them to view something with a degree of separation from their own preconceptions is completely out of the question.
Because for them relating is part of appearance? There is nothing wrong with that. Remember... racism is when you think you are superior or another race is inferior. Not being able to relate is not racism. It could be a bias based on the circumstance but bias is not automatically wrong either. Bias is as simple was wanting mustard or mayo on your hamburger or pizza.... let that sink in!
"Is for everyone and if you dont like it its not for you"
I love how they litteraly contradict themselve in their own sentence.
and they are physically incapable of seeing the obvious contradiction. How the hell can you expect to live with people like that.
Just ask Neogaf forum moderators in the last 20 years. We are for equality and if you post something we don’t like then you’re banned!
Given all the whining I see here about "social justice" and "identity politics", I'm guessing what Games Workshop meant was "It's for members of every group except bigots. If you're a bigot, it's not for you."
@@adamdavis1648 Yes, we're bigots. Against communists, specifically. Communists have no place in anything, a game or in society.
I mean, I am also unironically racist and misogynistic, but fuck communists especially.
@@adamdavis1648 The bigots are the ones that pay so see how fast Games Workshop dies without them
Ironically, having worked for the company, part of the training revolved around the concept that the hobby wasn't for everyone, and that was fine.
"Evil cannot create, it can only corrupt"
It's not enough that you just want to be left alone and live your life for these people. You have to fully embrace "the message" and anything that doesn't support it must be destroyed in the worst way possible. I.e. Star Wars Where now even our memories for it has been shitted on and we've come to hate what we once loved.
i don't understand that way of thinking: how you can hate it, when the official canon is the expanded universe? is very inmature to let a bad product to sour your opinion about the franchise, i mean, look at the (non god)zilla from the 98, the film was a disaster but it didn't stoped the japanese of love the king of monsters...
The fact that a fantasy setting, in the eyes of these lunatics, must bend to the politics and representation of certain groups, completely defeats the purpose of a fantasy setting in the first place.
The kind of spite, jealousy, entitlement and hate which spawns such demands from authors and ip holders can unironically be likened to the Imperium of Man.
I don’t know these groups live in a fantasy anyway so it checks out.
SJWs are incapable of basic empathy. The hint that this was true was that they need someone exactly identical to themselves to be able to 'identify' with it. And then when they get their 'identifiable' characters, they are not concerned in the slightest that anyone else can 'identify'... in fact, they think everyone else is problematic and should suffer and NOT identify. Their fantasy is a world that revolves around themselves and excludes everyone else.
Gotta love the fact that these muppets believe that Fantasy must be representative of Reality, while completely ignoring the whole concept and definition of what "fantasy" is, and that it isn't meant to be realistic.
I'm an old school Warhammer 40K tabletop player and with the advent of 3D printing Games Workshop has run into panic mode, inflating their prices for their miniatures and rulebooks, going woke, eliminating CZcamsrs that used to promote their products with lore videos and fan videos forcing them to go onto their subscriber only in house web service or shutting down their channels, they've made social media affiliates that promote their products sign really strict NDAs which has caused major trouble, they're just churning out rulebooks and new miniatures with the 'fear of missing out' consumerism with limited product runs etc. and the tabletop game gets unbalanced and in some areas broken.
I love the Warhammer 40K lore, love miniatures building and painting and the social aspect of tabletop gaming but I'm being a little strained with this hobby for the past 3-5 years.
Also their wiping out of their Old Warhammer fantasy world and products in 2015 was appalling all because they didn't win the Chapterhouse legal battle with copyright (and naming conventions for products e.g. "elves" etc) and because players weren't buying new fantasy models. Age of Sigmar is a decent game but many have a bad taste left in their mouths because of it.
I've only scratched the surface but I do not want my Warhammer 40K grim dark sold to Disney and be made into a Saturday morning cartoon.
3d resin printing is the best! I'm making my own custom Beastman army for 6th edition WHFB right now! I even printed two 3000+ point 6mm Epic scale armies (Guard and Orks), with less than one 1000g bottle! Sure, resin isn't super cheap, but it's worlds cheaper than buying GW's 50-60$ for 10 infantry boxes. Are they completely insane?
@@APsychicMonkey I was gonna say I bet that was at least 1/4th of the price you'd have to have paid for the "official" models. What GW should have done is throw themselves into 3D printing, sell resin sell whatever is needed (I'm not a 3D printer lol) and make some money off it, instead of hiking their already horrible prices and chasing away the sane customer base.
@@APsychicMonkey I 3D design and print my own ornate bases for my minis, it's great but time consuming and messy with the clean up .. also the toxicity (the resin and fumes), I use nitrile gloves, full 3M face mask with organic gas filters, eye protection etc seems overkill but the I've had resin spill on my skin once and that was enough, also the fumes make me feel bad afterwards so I vent the room as much as I can with open windows.
Even before 3D printers, back in the early 2000s I knew a kid in high school who used to kitbash random toys, models, and figures to make stuff for his WH 40k armies. He even used modeling clay and sculpted some things himself, as well as made molds of existing figures he had and injected the molds with epoxy resin or other materials to make duplicates as well as custom figures. He used to sell some the stuff he made to other kids in our school or on ebay which is how he supported his hobby. 3D printers are literally a game changer, and I agree that GW should have thrown their hats into that ring, partnering with a 3D printer company, making a subscribtion based online community where print files can be bought directly from the company and sold by other players (with the company taking a small cut), as well as partnering with a resin and filament company. They could have embraced the technology and still made money in a symbiotic relationship with 3D printing companies, as well as the general player base. I can see 40k players paying good money for an "official 40k 3D printer" which is wrapped in 40k graphics similar to how Xbox had Halo graphic wrapped consoles. 3D printing does have its drawbacks, especially time it takes to print, so it's not as if there'd no longer be a market for officially produced 40k figures, but increasing the price tag of those figures is the complete wrong approach as it'll only drive customers away from buying the figures, and towards 3D printing their own. Books, especially digital formats, are easy enough to pirate so increasing their prices is also foolish. No matter what the hobby/TTG is, most people tend to lean towards brand loyalty as much as possible, but in order to maintain that loyalty a brand needs to do right by their customer base.
Nah, GW was pulling that shit before 3D printing.
You guys did one thing... I'm looking up history and loar of Warhammer now. This sounds awesome!!!!!!
Actually, I'd argue that the Imperial Guard is the main body of defence for the Imperium, basically holding off heaps of alien or otherwise attacks. And statistically, given the vast amounts of battles being fought endlessly by the Guard, they're the ones who are actually winning the wars, no less has been admitted by Astartes themselves on that fact.
Astartes are stretched quite thin in numbers throughout the millenia since the great heresy of Horus. There are populations in places not at all desolate in the Imperium that even consider Astartes as a myth. That's how few their numbers are.
When they bend the knee, I walk away.
This has to be the most cursed thumbnail I have ever seen. Someone call the Inquisition.
Is….is that a hammer and sickle insignia on the chest piece? My word, absolutely heretical.
An Exterminatus?
*NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!*
Who is that?
Get the Flamer, Brother.
No, Brother. *The Heavy Flamer.*
I am constantly pleasantly surprised by how many CZcamsrs come to this podcast that I actually know and watch a lot of! It’s Awesome that Itsagundam got to come in I think he’s great for this kind of podcast!
Having ItsAGundam and Critical Drinker in the same call is just great. Love both channels
The people who say "Warhammer is for everyone" are the same people who would have judged me for being into it 10 years ago.
the normies
I think modern Culture doesn't get the point of Escapism at all.
In escapism, you DON'T want to see yourself, or the current world around you with all it's problems, you want to escape that stuff for a few hours.
No, YOU don't get the point of escapism. Escapism is like beauty... "in the eye of the beholder" for some escapism is not wanting to see themselves, for others escapism is seeing themselves but in a different setting. So congratulations... you missed the mark... by a mile. Escapism is what each of us makes it. Just because it's not your preference does not mean it is not someone else's. Literally... to each their own!
@@CD-vb9fi what your describing isn't escapism but cheap cosplay fetish or turning everything into some toxic lifestyle brand for clout on Facebook , hey each to there own if all you care about is needing internet senpai to notice you more power to you ,just stay away from any franchise I care about
@@raven-sf3di Gatekeepers like you need to stop. You fundamentally lack any integrity. People are not requires to have escapism according to your "limited" understanding. Folks like YOU are the ones that go to Disney and shove their agenda down everyone's throats because that is the only version of escapism you think can exist. Let me warn you... you deserve this because you ARE THIS! You are literally them!
@@CD-vb9fi It's not very escapist if you need it to be rooted in your own image now is it?
@@TheDoctorProfessor You folks are hilarious. Disney just said the same things to all of you. "It's not escapism if " and are now shoving their SJW trash down your throats. I want you to understand. Disney is doing all of this because folks "like you" are demanding that they do it. You like BLM, are not upset that wrong is being done... you are only upset that you are the one being hurt by it. You are okay with what Disney is doing... you are just upset that their agenda does not match your agenda. Hypocrite is the word for a person like you.
Make no mistake... you reap what you sow! And everyone whining about Disney are only getting what they have been giving for so long. They are not doing anything new. Hollyweird has been using, abusing, and culturally appropriating since the start. They are still doing it... they are now just doing it towards an agenda you don't like. where was your outrage before now? It was okay for them to do it while you liked it right? Now... shoe is on the other foot! What a shame!
Get it through your sick skulls. Escapism is in the eye of the beholder... stop gatekeeping, they learned it all from folks like you. A bunch of armchair high class snobs that say 'that's not music' or 'that's not art'...
No... the reality is this... you are just a bigot!
Notice how "for everyone" only applies for strictly: [SUCCESSFUL] franchises aimed at [MEN]
Starwars/marvel were never aimed at just men and disney still ruined it. Its more to do with the fact that they don't understand the politics they are trying to appeal to but insist on writing in the women and token ethnic, gender sexual minority. They don't give two shits about any of those people and their issues, they just want it for the shiny look. Thats why the latest stuff comes across (and is) cynical.
Warhammer, like disney, actually hates fans and also hates their own IP's at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if they just switched to making stuffed animals or some other lame crap.
I don't want to be part of something that's "for everybody" I want to be part of something special.
“Heroes to relate to”
I think they’re missing the point of their own IP
Idk I sympathise with Trazyn. Dude just wants to build his little collection.
Garro - "Why is it men have to die any time any of us try to do what is right?" Tarvitz - "Because that's the Imperial truth."
I was there, I was there the day GW killed the Emperor.
That's gonna be retconned now. Tarvitz: Because men have oppressed women for millenia, and we seek to right the wrongs of our fathers and be good allies.
There are plenty of female Guardsmen and of course the Sisters of Battle and the Sisters of Silence. Ask Sargons buddy Arch if you don't believe me. The fandom(including Sargons buddy Arch) demanded more of them for years.
@@Talashaoriginal and Lotara sarin and ALL the saints are female, lead crusades and are seen as pure and respected even by Astartes. Females in 40k are in the 'kitchen' where the imperium needs them to be just as their sons and husbands are fighting half a galaxy away to make sure that the horrors never reach them.
@@tarektechmarine8209 *Laughs in Ghaunts Ghosts.*
"Our game is for everyone - as long as you're rich."
I just got done with book 6 in HH and just gain way more respect for all of you guys! Thank you Drinker, in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war
*Disney:* "Drinker...we need you to bend the knee"
*Drinker:* "Naaaaaah, mate - i'm goin' on a bender!"
"Naaaaah, mate- That's Tatiana's job. HAHAHAHAHA!"
I’m a huge fan of Warhammer (duh) and the people who don’t understand the simplicity of the setting baffle me. EVERY faction in Warhammer has skeletons in their closet, to the point where there are horrific shades of grey everywhere. To someone who is essentially a slave in the Imperium, the allure of freedom through the dark gods may be worth selling their soul to them and committing horrific acts.
But the reason the Imperium is pushed to be the “good guys” of the setting is that they’re the humans. We should, as humans, feel a sympathy towards their struggle for survival and their devolution into the corpse of an empire it has become. Today’s culture just vilifies the human spirit and struggle to survive by telling us to just give up or let people murder us because we might “hurt their feelings” by being alive.
I mean, look at Astartes; for many people, the introduction to the franchise who had no idea of it's existence before. And one of the most common questions you see come up?
'Who are the "good" guys?'
One of the most common answers: 'Yes.'
There are no good guys, as a new inductee to the franchise this is one of the first things you realise.
Skeletons in their closet? Most factions don't bother to put them in the closet. Lol
@@HelghastStalker The Imperium stuck one onto a golden throne and keeps sacrificing people to it
@@somethinglikethat2176 Yeah, but only coz it's usually an entire planet full of skeletons.
Humanity is the closest thing to a 'good' faction in Warhammer, even if only by force of the entire race isn't outright trying to murder or trick everyone else. It's also a matter of degrees, by normal standards the Imperium are pretty bad but by 40k standards they are pretty decent.
40K has always been about rolling dice, playing with little plastic figurines with your friends, dabbling in a spot of art & craft, and reading a bit of edgy lore to stop you feeling like a complete child in the process. The lore is really only there to convince you that continually wasting money on shit you basically a) already have and b) will never use is somehow an exciting prospect.
It’s a bit of fun. People take it way too seriously.
The new pub rock sensation... Drinker and the Avatars!
The most concerning matter for me is we are seeing more and more people completely incapable of dissociating their real life issues with fiction diegesis. And I think it's one of the reasons modern entertainment is not as creative as it used to be. Writers are biased into writing political and ideological stuff all the time, hence narrowing a lot their horizon of imagination. We have entered a land of petty art and propagandist bullshit.
Our societal direction is being steered by a handful of schizophrenic freaks on social media and activist weirdos in entertainment companies. This has to come to an end, sooner or later.
This is a huge problem with RPGs. If your character kills a monster, the player is a murderer. If your character owns a slave, the player support slavery, etc. Heck, even including slavery in a fantasy RPG setting means the writer supports slavery.
@@Hedgehobbit "Should players be held accountable for war crimes in video games?" People who escape the real world with games can very much differentiate reality from fabrication. People who feel the incessant need to blend the two? Not so much.
Having played 40k on and off since the early 90's, I can say without doubt that GW is one of the least consumer friendly, generally unpleasant and money grubbing corporations I've ever had anything to do with, they have business practices that make EA look good, they are not the ones to be lecturing anyone on morality
Truly we life in dark Times when fucking EA has better business practices than all of Hollywood, the tabletop Industry and the comic Industry combined
@@chheinrich8486 Shit, you're right.
@@chheinrich8486 In the grimdark future of 2022, there is only NFTs...
I mean idk how anyone would’ve considered them a consumer friendly company? They self a set of 6-8 admechs for like 30 plus bucks. We still have to put it all together and paint. Like wtf… the prices on these things are fucking crazy high
@@jaimeruiz7837 oh it's worse than you think, see in 2008 when 5th edition came out GW repackaged pretty much their entire plastic line, thing is they they didn't just change the box art, they halved the contents of every standard plastic box set (so Cadians went from 20 models to 10) while keeping the price unchanged, that stealth 100% price hike has been the basis for every plastic box set and price increase since then...
I have never play 40k. I remember when I asked a friend that did play the game "who are the good guys, and who are the bad guys"? He paused and told me that "there are no good or bad gad guys, it's all a grey area". He then added " some guys are a lighter shade of grey, and others are a darker shade. The only true bad guys are Games Workshop, who charge you an arm a leg just to get a few unpainted figures to play".
There are a fuckton of baddies though; the orcs, dark eldar, especially the chaos
The more inclusive you become, the more excluded people feel. By saying "it's for everyone" or "updating to modern audiences" is Bent-Knee for "NOTICE ME HOLLYWOOD!" It'll only result in a slow death as apathy takes hold and by the time these companies realize it, they're staring down the barrel of Chapter 11 with little to no hope of avoiding that bullet.
As a 40k fan, the notion of the Warhammer universe being a means to portray the current ideology and real world pandering is as absurd as trying to put tolerance and trans rights into 1984
How would it be absurd to put tolerance and trans rights into 1984? 🤔
The book 1984.
@@adamdavis1648 it would fit right in as an intolerant agenda pedaling "tolerance" double-speak that cancels anyone who disagrees with indoctrinating others into their mental illness.
@@adamdavis1648 Translation:
Warhammer 40k is a sci-fi fantasy universe in which there are no "good guys". Even most of the gods and species of the old world have long since been killed off. The actual point of the 40k world is "shit sucks". That's not even an exaggeration, as most of the added lore is edgier than anything the most emo teenaged tumblr blogger can come up with.
(To show a small example of this in action, one of the gods of 40k was birthed into existence when the most advanced species in the universe reached its apex and ran on a hedonistic treadmill so hard that it broke reality and created a being that feeds on pleasure in literally all forms. If it's followers ever stop their sado-masochistic blood orgy, it will kill them all for a dopamine hit.)
1984, a book by legendary political satirist George Orwell (a pen name for Eric Blair), is a bleak dystopia in which your very thoughts are subject to government control. It is the actual source of the terms thought-police, big brother, double-think, wrong-think, and thought-crime. He took the extreme of what anti-free speech looks like to exemplify why it was so necessary.
Therefore, putting real-world politics in WH40k is equivalent to putting tolerance and trans rights in 1984. There is nothing that you have to make "better" or "more inclusive" in a fictional world made to represent what you believe is *wrong with the world*.
@@BLaRgXrvbX You can have bad things happen to people in the WH40K universe who are tolerant and respect trans rights. And you can have the protagonist of 1984 be tolerant and fight for trans rights but still have him lose in the end.
Adding tolerance and trans rights doesn't have to make a story any less bleak or less reflective of what's wrong with the real world. And putting real world politics into a setting could easily go hand in hand with portraying what you feel is wrong with the world if you don't like the politics of the real world.
For example, I could see myself writing a dystopian setting where a vast portion of the population is in denial about facts. This could include deadly misconceptions such as people believing that vaccines are dangerous and the diseases they cure aren't. That would make the setting *more* bleak, not less. Especially if lead to an even higher death toll and more suffering than it has in real life.
"Everything is terrible then you probably get eaten by tyrannids." Is still the best summary of the setting I've seen. I'd add "if you're lucky."
Well, if the bugs don't get you, the Necrons will. Ouch. :P
Yeah honestly getting eaten by tyrannids seems to be one of the more pleasant ways to go in 40K.
@@sigmacademy Or Chaos, or the dark Eldar, or you'll keep living. Grim no matter how you slice it lol
@@reginaldthunderfuck4832 the tau might treat you a bit better than the imperium but they are so small that their influence is minscule as for the craftworlds you probably wont see them unless they come to blow up your planet because there will be a cult that summons a Daemon prince that takes over that sub sector. honestly i think the best way to die would be from an Ork because at least the Ork will say something funny when he kills you
@@reginaldthunderfuck4832 Eventually even Chaos and Dark Eldar will be consumed by Tyrannids, as there's still no other methods to eradicate Tyrannids apart from possibly Webway's stalling, Necron techs' and expansions to downright potential War in Heaven's lost archeotechs that would acts as failsafe to Tyrannids' uncontrollable expansions (As Tyrannids being perfect counter and antithesis to Immaterium due to their either lack of sentience or having chaotic hiveminds' signal feeds that could even fucks the senses and souls of the strongest Chaos daemons and warbands if they try to peer into the Tyrannids' thought processes)
Warhammer 40K is designed to be cynically perpetuated franchises akin to how Star Wars ended up, and unlike Tolkien which already had finality and good ending, well-thought out tales, cosmology and uncynical thematic & leitmotif (asides from potential future bad adaptation IRL), then Warhammer 40K, Star Wars and similar "high sci fi" franchises alike will be fated itself to self-ruination thematically regardless of them being "woke" or not, the biggest problems with secularised franchises of modern West
i had to come back and revisit this video with the release of the Female Custodes GW is retconning into the lore of 40K
When I was growing up, playing Warhammer, Magic the Gathering, computer games etc etc were the kind of thing only losers and nerds did, and no person with any social skills or status would be caught dead playing them. Fast forwards two decades and suddenly the hobbies created for the socially excluded by the socially excluded are in the mainstream. Meanwhile their past is being reinterpreted as some kind of deliberate conspiracy to exclude [insert descriptive word here] people, local representatives of whom I have very clear past memories of saying they wouldn't be caught dead doing the hobbies that I did, and telling me I was some kind of weirdo for liking them. What a difference twenty years and a lot of successful Hollywood movies makes!
The most fun I've had recently was reading the basic plotline of Warhammer 40k to my mom and both of us just laughing at the ever-escalating grimdark. She said, laughing, "How do they have any people left?" I said, "They clone them, I guess."
Trillions of people take a while to die
@@WayStedYou and in meantime they procreate...by trillions.
@@WayStedYou Yeah, but where did they come from? How did the previous generation last long enough to produce them? Like I said, it's all in good fun, so it's best not to think about it.
In many cases they do clone them. But also think about the birth rates in war-torn hellholes in Africa and the mideast. Humanity is shockingly resilient and people will pop out babies like nobody's business if they feel an existential threat of extinction.
@@Lammy4ever7 where do babies come from? Somalia is a desolate war torn/ravaged country and they shit out babies on the reg there. An explanation isn’t needed where one simply isn’t needed.
I was explaining this to me fiancé yesterday.
Gamers will love to take anyone into their group to play with BUT you have to be able to hang with them. You can't have the entire community change to suit you. You have to be able to measure up to them and if you can't then that group isn't for you.
Honestly, I have no desire to be accepted by everyone and included in everything. I have nothing in common with My Little Pony fans and want no part of it. I don't understand the people that think this way.
That's because the ones doing this kinda stuff they aren't fans, they're activists and professional victims who only get enjoyment out of making other people as miserable as them.
At this point I'm wary of new fans because of the trend of letting new people say, play Magic the Gathering and next thing you know a year later you don't recognize the MTG you grew up with because the new "fans" engaged in a hostile takeover of the game.
@@bdkj3e In fairness, the professional SJW's make decent money as "crybullies" despite having a nearly absolute lack of capability or skill sets.
I mean, John "Brianna Wu" Flynt, Anita Sarkeesian and Zoë Quinn all are doing pretty well for themselves.
The people that think that way are narcissists, that's why you don't understand them.
That's literally every community or group on the planet throughout all of human history. You either meet the standard to get in, or the group lowers it's standards and destroys itself.
"We going to *diversify* our cast of characters miniatures!"
I can't wait for the black trans Chaos Khornate Marine in a wheelchair holding an USSR flag in battle!
Nah a Ukraine flag
GW _used_ to have female versions of most minis. They didn't sell, and shops begged them to stop sending them out.
Moral grandstanding from the company that tried to sue the Heinlein estate to claim Space Marines is kind of fascinating in a bleak way. Makes me glad I ducked out in 5th with my Guard.
There's a really cool bit in Saturnine, where the soldier Piers explains to Hari the remembrancer that they basically knew belief in the Emperor was bullshit, but necessary to get them through the new world full of daemons and the horrors of war. A really cool piece of forshadowing; that the nascent cult of the Emperor, was founded out of desperation, out of necessity.
GW shouldn't be taking a side on the Lore, they should just make the narrative and let the fans decide who's good and bad.
But how will they advance The Message otherwise if not through the lore?
@@AdderTude Yup, they'll keep shoving their misshapen Message into places that were never made for it.
GW: "We're going to shit on the lore and fans of by far our most popular faction, while we charge ridiculous prices for plastic models that cost us 15 cents to make."
Also GW: "Why did everyone suddenly stop buying our products, and start 3D printing them instead?"
Me: Your latest box set cost $300!
I'm more bothered by the fact we live in a society where people have to be explicitly told "a totalitarian theocracy engaged in eternal war and technological stagnation in which human life is the cheapest commodity in the galaxy" would be a bad place to live.
As someone who wishes to be a writer and creator I am getting so sick of seeing creators and companies throwing their own IPs under the bus for woke points. This is basically your child and you will put them on the sacrificial alter for brownie points. It frankly disgusts me.
I firmly believe that when you try to make something for everyone, you end up making something for no one. You have to compromise on so many things and make concessions to water down the driving idea being the whole concept to achieve the lowest common denominator, which ultimately makes it uninteresting and bland
Exactly!
"Its for everyone" is another way of saying "it's our game, comrades" through equity
Bingo. That's literally all this is.
I 100% agree!! keep up the great work as always Drinker!
Now this is the conversation I wanted to hear! Love it!
I love how GW tries to push the "Imperium bad" narrative when the Dark Eldar for example enjoy nothing but the torture and disfiguring of any species they come across, including their own. You know bending flesh and bone while a person is still alive and aware of what is happening, and remaining alive and aware while serving as a couch or a table. Or which ever Chaos cult and its blood orgy sacrifices that result in (the worst case) the destruction of an entire planet. And so on. The creators can't go finger wagging over the Imperium when the rest of the galaxy in that setting is far worse.
Or the fact that they've got what are basically the xenomorphs but more sadistic
Ironically the Soulless Grimdark Egyptian Terminators in Spehss aren’t that bad in comparison.
@@rustkarl Weirdly enough yea.
They have to push "Imperium Bad" because over half of the Black Library is "GLORY TO THE IMPERIUM!!!" bolter porn. People start identifying with the brutal fascist regime when it's presented as the clear protagonist of the setting.
because the Imperium made of mostly masculine men and some based ladies that adhere to a sense of ethics, social order, and discipline, something that the far left hates because it means taking accountability and responsibility for one's actions.
I found 40k a little over a year and a half ago (thanks to Luetin09’s videos) and the setting was just so metal I was pulled in immediately. It just sucks that GW decided that was when they too wanted to go woke (besides all their other issues that I hear fans go on about that were already present) so I can only imagine what the dudes that have been in the hobby for a long time are feeling. I left Star Wars and Star Trek years ago (still enjoy the classics though) because of what happened with them and I find the woke virus coming in to infect 40k now. All I can say is gatekeep; never think it can’t happen to your hobby because it can and if you let it, it will
Woke is the virus. Good point
TBH, I don't watch much official online GW stuff, or go on any GW forums or subreddits, so I can't speak to how it might be on those. I have read loads from the Horus Heresy BL novels though, and all of the Siege of Terra books so far. There's nothing particularly woke in them. The tone is still pretty consistent with False Gods from waaaay back when the HH books first started.
About the only thing I can think of is mixed Imperial Army units, but they've been cannon in 40k for as long as I can remember. There's even images and references to female combatants all the way back in the original Rogue Trader rules. None of the books have had Astartes with tits - other than 1000 Sons probably but that hardly counts seeing as the approach to Slanneshi shit has always been tits and S&M gear. Also, none of the books have this completely false Imperium = Bad, Chaos = Good narrative that Sargon was waffling about. The dynamic is still as it always was: Imperium = Bad, Chaos = Worse.
I'm sure GW have waffled some shit about DEI, made some vague statements that amounted to "yes, we'll say the sacred words please don't twitter mob us", but as for any wokeness actually making it into the lore, I don't see it.
@@blackd0w13 Don't worry, it's coming. They're probably smart enough to know that any really big change in that direction suddenly will draw too big of a backlash. But slower changes over time that eventually lead to the same place is surely in their plans atm. It's a classic strategy, but it works.
There was that WH40k for kids stuff they put out a while back. I think it's just a glimpse of they type of stuff they will do for money. Don't get me wrong, I understand trying to appeal to a younger market to keep fresh customers coming in, but I think marketing 40K to literal children is going too far. And it also shows an extreme willingness to dumb/water things down if it means expanding their banks accounts. I don't think they will shy away from wokeness. I think they will embrace it.
Personally I think Slannesh will undergo significant changes at some point. There's no way the woke crowd wouldn't find Ol' Rapey McRapeface 'problematic'.
@@Pyrela We'll see. There is a lot more visible pushback on the woke nonsense from other liberals like me - just look at the discourse around LoTR TRoP at the moment - online these days, so I think (hope) that people are starting to see through it all.
Maybe we'll get lucky and some common fucking sense will return, before anything like that seeps into the lore. GW are all about making as much cash as possible. So, even if they're planning on it now, if the wind changes direction, they'll drop all of it.
@@blackd0w13 Yeah. The only thing that will stop it is enough pushback to hit them in the wallet hard.
Thing is, a ton of companies have opened their doors to wokeivists over the years thinking that was the way to make more money. Then they kind of get taken over by them and the wokeivists are generally willing to lose money to push their agendas. Maybe even drive entire companies into the ground. So the question is how infected is the company by these real world gene stealers. And if they are overrun can they be ousted by enough people who care more about the bottom line then *The Agenda* .
Despite GW's woke bleating, in the bleak setting of a franchise created when the company had far more respect for itself, the lore and the fans, in the grim darkness of the far future, the Imperium of Man ARE indeed... the "good" guys!
Or at least the "Fell in disgrace" good guys.
But what about the T'au?
The T'au are space commies; they deserve the Emperor's wrath.
@@imperator88vis67
Well, they could be considered as comunists, but you know what? The Supreme Good doctrine does work. Unlike the Comunism.
Besides, my point was to ilustrate how there are more "good" factions than the imperium.
I didn’t realize some you guys streamed together, I follow most of you, it’s cool seeing you together
For Gary's sake, the comic book analogy to this is Marvel and DC saying "we don't want men to buy our comics anymore, we want only women to buy comics." When men account for 95% of their sales and women never will be interested in comics. Games Workshop now despises its own customers and wants a different customer base.
"How does it feel to have lived long enough to see all your favorite franchises go down in flames" - Rich "Aids" Evans.
Feels great.
@@bergonath8851 *nihilistic laughter*
As much as I love 40k I hope that 3d printing and emerging competitor companies just drive them out of business. We already have the lore, we have the game manuals, the only reason to even buy from them is for the models. And as technology is improving it is becoming easier and easier to print out miniatures. And there is a simple loophole to get around any copywrite claims they attempt to make to stop people. Have all the pieces individually printable and just let people buy whatever pieces they want and put together their own models. They can claim that they own 100 versions of shoulder armor, or torso segments, or legs, or chainmail accessories. If a person buys all of those an happens to assemble them to look like a Chaos Marine then so be it. Also with 3d modeling software it is easy to just edit "generic' models to look more like a 40k model. If you want a tyranid you could just buy the "generic alien 1" model from an online store, upload that and trim away pieces to make it look however you like. And of course there will be generous people online passing their "modded" sculptures to other gamers.
So I say let it die. Maybe if they get to the point of closing down they will be forced to sell the company and Henry Cavill will buy it.
For those who are not aware. There was a group tournament in Spain, where a team entered the tournament wearing Nazi imagery and symbols, even their name was "Austrian painter". That statement from GW is related to that event. Just for a bit of context.
As a 38 year old who has been interested in 40k since the 3rd edition I'll put it very clearly on what the hobby is and what it was meant for at inception.
It is for lads to play with toy soldiers. That is literally it. Its so lads can test their metal in "combat" against each other but in a safe way and with the background lore to make their soldiers really matter to them. Your classic green and tan plastic soldiers dont have a story, or reason to fight, or backgrounds or histories. 40K units do.
And the simple fact is that playing with toy soldiers is pretty much exclusively a male thing. In all my years i think I've only been exposed to 3 lasses that actually play the game. There are others who enjoy painting and that is absolutely fine if thats all you want to get out of it, but at its core 40k is about blokes with big muscles fighting desperately and uncompromisingly against an enemy that can't be reasoned with or negotiated with. Its kill or be killed and the society of the Imperium has evolved that way out of necessity so the players dont need to feel guilty about mowing down wave after wave of chaos cultists without remorse, compassion or wondering how they self identify as.
And there is nothing wrong with that. Let boys play with their toys and stop trying to invade and deconstruct their entertainment spaces.
@@cattysplat Can’t let masculinity go too far.
The pushback on being manly these days is such a joke.
my green an tans had stories/lore that I imagined for them...and I painted several in blue&GREY uniforms to reinact the civ war (the bayoneted M-16 charger was a GOOD GUY fave of mine. in my version, the GOOD GUYS won...
well put
The more a hobby becomes "inclusive" the less anybody wants anything to do with it.
The drinker + warhammer OMG this would be a video series I could just dream of
I went to Games Workshop shops a few times here in the Netherlands and they were incredibly friendly and open, I fear that this being incredibly open is a double edged sword, it cuts both ways, it gets you new fans, but it also gets you neo-marxist infiltrators. If anything, the whole ordeal proves Sargon's point about it being necessary for the survival of the human race in WH40K to regress and turn the entire Empire into the some kind of Spanish Inquisition. It's more and more clear that gatekeeping is necessary to protect the integrity of what we love. We need to start pushing back, it has already devolved into a tug of war, we have to start treating it that way.
GW is fustercluck incarnate, it's maddening that the universe I fell in love with many years ago is ran by absolute morons. It's almost as if they hate us be cause we love the lore, and punishing us for all that money we spent over the years.
Edit: now that Carl has said it I want a pet Termagaunt.
They hate us cause they ain’t us
yep thats exactly my boat
I can't find a single member of the original creative teams still on board. They hate the lore because it's not "progressive" enough. Not enough is done to inject their personal politics and preaching into a story about finding heroes among monsters.
The lore is really dumb, though. So you can't fall off the floor.
they do hate you because you love the lore, you are in the way of the rebrand they desperately want
Remember how GW came out with this and a sewage pipe burst in their HQ building immediately afterwards? The jokes just wrote themselves.
That was just their representative spewing refuse.
Karma!
God knows what He does
Just like when they made a mural for George Floyd and then then very next day it was destroyed by a lightning strike.
Unless you're celebrating our common humanity, you can't celebrate cultural diversity and also insist your favorite thing is "for everyone"!
went Chaos after Space Wolves. Seemed like a natural regression. one of the things I always liked about 40k was that it seems there's room for everything.
This was driven by that one guy who turned up at a Spanish tournament under the name "The Austrian Painter", in uniform. Presumably it was as a joke to see how far he could get by having his opponents forfit matches by refusing to play against him. GW took his appearance at this one tournament as him being LITERAL
Wokists hate Nazi jokes as much as Nazis do. 🤔
I remember this, I also remember that not a single outlet described what he was wearing other than a vague description like "fascist imagery". Like what the hell kind of description is that? And the worse thing was that there was no articles that had any fact that weren't already repeated, they all used misleading facts and emotional languages to manipulate the readers.
The statement Sargon read out about 40k 'being for everyone' was put out long before The Austrian Painter went to that tournament. Years before.
@@DanielScutt-nq6ky ahh, fair enough :)
@@DanielScutt-nq6ky wonder if they support the Army of Ukraine? That's got Nazis in it.
If you "have" to look like someone in order to learn something from them, that says more about you than anything else.
And this is coming from an adopted Korean that grew up in a predominantly white farm town
When I hear "X is for everyone"... They're saying "Just not you, actual fans"
The room is spinning.... from all the Nerdiness!