Why this Toyota 2GR Engine Failed
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- čas přidán 7. 01. 2024
- Here's a look inside a Lexus ES350's engine that failed.
The engine had 213,000km and had the rear intake bank camshaft VVT gear actuator bolts back out. As a result, the camshaft could no longer hold timing, causing the pistons and valves to collide and bend.
Toyota and Lexus had a recall on these engines for the camshaft bolts backing out, however that was for the 2GRFSE versions found in the Lexus IS350 and GS350.
This 2GRFE engine had difficulty starting on three cylinders and sounded horrible. More on that here:
• Lexus ES350 3.5L V6 En...
Many earlier 2GR engines did have many common issues exhibited by this 2007 model including the water pump failing, the front timing cover leaking, and the VVT lines being made of fragile rubber instead of metal. Thus it is best to purchase a model with these issues addressed later in the generation.
For a more detailed look at the 2GRFE engine, check out this teardown video:
• The Toyota 2GR 3.5L V6...
For the engine swap video, see this video:
• Lexus Engine Replacement
To remove Toyota head bolt, a 12 point, bi-hexagon socket is needed which can be found here:
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That was a lot of coolant leftover wow. It absolutely sucks when that happens. I love these teardowns, it's so awesome to see how different engines work and all that. Much appreciated
Glad you like it ..sure was alot of coolant....I already drained the radiator when I took it out
@@speedkar99You can drain the radiator but until you drain the block you will have all that coolant. There’s a port for the drainage of the coolant system on the block and it’s between the jacket and freeze plug.
Whoever did this to their 2GR did not deserve to own a Lexus ES.🤨
Amen!!!!
Probably Mexican
@@samholdsworth420wtf…
Agreed.
I agree.
Lexus makes good and great cars. Sounds like this one had some early adoption issues. 😢
Just discovered your channel! Great breakdowns of a couple engines we own. We have a Mini and a Subaru. Your details and short videos are great! Thanks for all your hard work!
Glad you like my videos!
This engine 2GR-FE started with 2005 Toyota Avalon. And made its way through other V6 Toyota and Lexus models. I have it in my 2007 Sienna, and I've been through multiple recalls. But it's still running. I switched to Walmart brand synthetic oil with OEM filter and shortened the interval to 3K miles, and all the morning rattling noise is gone.
Yeah man! That supertech oil & filters are very good stuff
@@DETmichigan-yy6lfhe stated he is using factory Toyota filters
And the 1GR-FE was the god father of the GR series. Great engine.
Awesome. I have the 2GR in my 2011 Sienna
Great share.
I wouldn’t have thought this about Wal-Mart products but I’ll go ahead and give em a go.
Thank you. 🙏 😊
My 2013 Avalon v6 is outstanding. 221K miles on it Original water pump, still going strong. Highly recommend. 2013-2018.
Good car. But that pump is on borrowed time. CHeck it ASAP
I like that point out what the different components of the engine. Super helpful in understanding the engine. Thanks for making these videos!
Glad you can learn something new! Thanks
I always look forward to your vids. They are very educational and entertaining. Please keep up the great work.
Glad you like them!
Your videos are so instructives, intuitives, perfect. Thank you very much for all the work shared. Cheers !
Glad you like them!
I see the rubber VVTI line on our 2005 Toyota Avalon with the 2GR-FE 3.5L engine, Bank #1. We're the original owners and brought it to the dealer in 2006 when we got the recall notice. I guess the dealer didn't do a damn thing and sent the bill to Toyota. I check it monthly and so far so good even after 19 years. I see they replaced the front line (bank #2) with the hard line. I replaced the water pump (WP) 30,000 miles ago with an OEM Aisin Toyota WP with the engine still mounted in the car. Lot's of swearing and throwing tools across the garage helps a lot.
You should get that line replaced
The original recall replacement hose was an updated rubber hose. Metal lines weren’t added until around 2011 models I believe.
Your videos are awesome man! Great editing great narration and humor sprinkled in 😊
Glad you like the style!
Great video, I recently bought a 09 ES350 with 126,000 kilometres, changed coolant and transmission fluid as I have no maintenance history on the car. Motor is quiet ( even at start up) and no leaks or weeping from gaskets. I can see from your video the result of lack of maintenance on this 3.5 motor. I feel the water pump issue is amplified by lack of changing coolant. I use sythetic oil as well. I am amazed how many drivers neglect simple basic fluid changes. Cheers!
Agreed! Some maintenance would have kept this in better shape but not prevent the bolts from backing out
all oil is synthetic but with varying amounts of it to ratio of detergents. Unlike fuel which can be found without Ethanol in select few places, one cannot simply buy modern oil that doesnt quantify or classify as being synthetic in some varying percentages which have no standard of reporting amount used
all oil is synthetic but with varying amounts of it to ratio of detergents. Unlike fuel which can be found without Ethanol in select few places, one cannot simply buy modern oil that doesnt quantify or classify as being synthetic in some varying percentages which have no standard of reporting amount used
It's too bad they didn't take it in when there was a recall to fix it. Also they didn't change the oil every 5k miles for sure. I have an 2008 Highlander with the 2GR FE engine with 255,000 miles. I change the oil every 5k with fully synthetic oil and OEM filter. Thanks for the video, I learn so much from them.
no modern engine needs new oil every 5k miles, i'd have to change oil once a month.
@@alexstromberg7696 No, they don't NEED it. But it sure as hell extends their life. 5k miles, or 6 months.
@@alexstromberg7696 The Car Care Nut, Scotty, and a whole bunch more say the same thing, EVERY 5k miles, unless it's all highway, then you can go longer.
@@frankbiz you listen to scotty? I work on engines that run 1000 hour oil changes without any problems. That is almost 30k miles.
@@alexstromberg7696ever done an oil analysis on that 30k mile oil?
Top explanation as always!!
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for New video
And happy new year 🎉
Thank you too
Just FYI, I have done the ES water pump, and it's not that bad. I had to undo the motor mounts, and lift the engine up with a jack, but once I did so, the pump came out without much fuss.
Good to know. Did you remove the alternator and radiator for more space?
Baking tray might do it to catch the fluids! Nice to see an video from you
You are right. I have an old one around somewhere I should try it.
You do a great job under less than ideal conditions! I've nearly always worked in conditions like that.....
Conditions can't bother me. The next video you'll see me working in snow.
this is why the 1mzfe was truly Toyota mass produced v6 reliable king
It was an awesome smoother engine.
❤Thank you very beautiful lesson and demonstration.Thank you
You are so welcome!
I love these videos. It's kind of amazing that modern engines are so reliable given the number of small and fragile parts they contain. They're also a nightmare to service.
The 2GR is a lot easier to work on when it’s NOT in the car lol
Agreed
Good. Thanks. Are the problems with the FE also found on the FSE?
This is a solid engine especially like 2010+ if you take care of oil and coolant. Neglect and it will get expensive.
Agreed. 2010+ had less problems
Notification Squad!🔥🔥🔥 Happy New Year!🎉🎉🎉🎉
Same to you!
These are great engines IF you take care of them, if you neglect them they will make you pay for it.
Agreed, they can't take neglect like the earlier 1MZ and 3MZ
My mate had this engine in a Toyota Aurion. Cam sensor misread as he was cruising along and the valves and pistons blew themselves apart
Ouch!!
Nice review... I'm surprised Toyota 2gr can fail like this too!
Any engine can fail.
A lot of these engines don't fail until well over 200,000 miles. Not really uncommon for a good engine to fail with high miles if it's constantly neglected on oil changes and other preventative maintenance.
Same issue on my 2006 GS450h. 3 bolts backed out of the intake cam gear because of the cold start rattle.
Did you have to replace the engine?
The biggest problem with the plastic filter housings I've found is that the plastic swells over time. One of my mothers friends always had me change the oil in her rav4, I'd put the filter back in just snug after it seated down, it'd be a nightmare to get off a couple months later. Finally had to break it to change the filter, put an aluminum Dorman one of after that and didn't have another issue.
3.6 dodge? 😂😂
@@speedkar99 Yeah, I've got one of those that will need attention in the not too distant future as well.
Good job 👍
Thanks 👍
8:28 Crime scene investigation 😮
Yes! Sure was an interesting failure
were you afraid of saying
WHY TOYOTA ENGONES FAIL?
!!!!!REV UP YOUR ENGINES!!!!!!!
Yes I was ☹️
You know you are running low on rags when you have to stop using family clothes and resort to "kitchen towels". 😅
So true!
17:51 that’s gold
Looks like they were running red wine instead of oil in the crankcase
More like nothing
So did you remove those bolts on the replacement engine and put loc-tite?
Thanks sir.
Clearly seems its lack of maintenance 😢
It is hard to imagine one of these failing unless it was badly abused or not maintained (oil changes). That is interesting about the metal oil filter housing. My Camry (2AR-FE) has the plastic oil filter housing.
Toyota changed to the plastic oil filter housing around 2009. Our 2007 Rav4 has metal housing, our 2012 Rav4 has plastic.
Why can't anyone show the bolts for the lower intake
Posted at a good time, lunch breakkkk
I always post for 12 noon
Rattling on my 2010 es350 started a few days ago on cold start. Car has 140k miles. Oil and filter change every 5k miles. Could that be the bolts starting to back out of the timing gear?
Well I own a 2015 Lexus es 350 with that exact engine . And I can tell you whoever owned that car is either clueless or careless . My 2GR Lexus is strong and solid running like a gazele no end in sight .
Nice! Keep it maintained. Eventually the timing cover might leak 🙈
Here's a pro tip by the way those diamond Toyota ignition coils are not as good as the denso ones featured in the rear wheel drive variants like the IS350 and the GS 350 they are interchangeable though so if you happen across a GS 350 or IS350 in the junkyard grab the coils they last a lot longer than these diamond ones which are kind of garbage in my opinion
Good to know. I have a RWD GS350 and saved these coils just in case
Dumb question.... but is it possible to re-tighten those loose cam gear bolts before they shear off?
There is another issue with this engine,more precisely the air box that had an improper shape and sand and particles bypassed the air filter and ruined cylinder 2 or 5 depending on the mounting type ( NS or EW )
Hmm I don't see how it would by pass the filter, did that happen to you?
@@speedkar99 no, but i know some cases, the airbox had a design flaw and air bypassed the filter, it happened on rx and gs if i remember well
Early model 2gr timing sprocket were updated because of problems this could be one of them
Yes
That vvti oil hose recall didn't replace the rubber hose with a hard-line, it just replaced it with another rubber hose of better quality. I never even saw the original type fail, have you?(out of interest?). You can tell if the recall has been done because the replacement hose had yellow stripes on it in a few spots, the original was just plain black. That's how it was in Australia anyway. Also out of interest, that bit of stuff behind the water pump pulley, you sure it's part of the seal? Looks like part of a belt. That's a weird failure on that phaser for sure, never saw that before. I replaced a few of those intake phasers under warranty, they'd get a chatter for a few seconds on start up till it got oil pressure like you say. I never realised it could be caused by those bolts coming loose, don't remember any of the ones i replaced being like that, but i definitely may have just not noticed.
The bolts backing out was a different issue than the pin inside the gear causing the rattle.
I believe after the rubber hose was replaced with a rubber hose, the newer engines came with all metal lines. You might be right it could be a previously failed water pump.
@@speedkar99 ah I see. Well i wouldn't have seen an engine newer than 2012. Memory is dodgy, i can't remember if they'd made it metal by then or not, only the recall sticks in my mind. Ah yeah, a pin inside the gear huh. Toyota probably told us that that was what caused the fault at the time and I've probably forgotten.
1:19 wait a minute, isnt that you?
Where?
I have a problem what 2gr engine wish I have change crankshaft 😊 camshaft can the top cylinder make nose
My 2GR on my IS350 is making a really bad rattle at cold start. Sometimes it's the VVTI Cam phaser and sometimes it's the timing chain rattle (similarly to VQ Rattle) what do I do?
Get your wallet out or sell it
If it's really bad then you'll have to change it. Check if the recall covers your car.
Anyone else have cold start rattling on their RX450h (or RX350)? I'm not looking forward to removing the timing cover on my wife's car... the VVT oil filters checked out so i guess it isn't simply VVT actuator slack from low oil pressure at startup.
why do you need a special tool for the oil filter? isn't that just a standard socket connection in the center? like use an extension only?
No, that just an oil drain plug for empty the oil before removing the oil filter housing.
No, the thing attached to the filter in the video is the special socket that my ratchet can plug into
Have you ever torn apart a 1gr fe? I had a 13 Tacoma and these are near bullet proof.
No, would like to though
3:48 I was tinkering about the other day, and I thought to myself what can I wear to keep the dirt off, so I put on my wife's dress and high heels! Everyone started laughing at me, but I didnt get dirty and saved a few pence on rags!
Very good choice on the dress. High heels, not so much
I think that debris around the oil pickup is bits of aluminum. Aluminum is not magnetic.
But the VVT bolts were magnetic.
Brilliant...
Yes
real question is how long did it run without oil until it finally gave up
It sure had oil. It was leaking everywhere.
2:43 Remove the engine just to do a water pump?😬 I hope the new cars are wide enough for this to not be required in the manual.
Support the oil pan and lose the passenger side engine mount. Jack up and water pump could be RR.
@@apwang2436 RR?
That's the way to do it....the book says to remove engine
If i lose trust in Toyota i lose trust in my life 😢
Lol
Do you know the maintenance of the car? I wonder if that's a fake OEM oil filter? I know some of the knock offs are that weak but definitely not the real thing.
I don't think the filter contributed to the 3 bolts falling off
Overall fairly stout engine. Not MZ level, but good basic package. Lack of maintenance may have not been the final cause of death, but shows even modern engines should stick to reasonable OCIs.
Not sure i'm on board with timing chains. All the extra complexity, noise, and labour costs if anything goes wrong or leaks. Having a belt, and having someone go through every 7-8 years seems like a nice compromise. A lot of preventative maintenance can happen at the same time.
I agree. With all the timing chain related failures I see, the belt seems like a better option.
And for sure the MZ engine was far superior in terms of quality and reliability
"Summer's done anyway, who needs jeans?" Ok, what the devil do you wear in the winter, pantaloons? 😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉
You should have left the tooth brush in the intake manifold 🤣
Good idea
@@speedkar99 🤣
I thought these were solid engines, which would you think is better, 2gr fe or vq35de
Both good properly maintained. Vq has little more power
@@cutliss thanks, thinking of swapping my 350z with a 1uz
@@muthlave a lot of work, time, money. Swapping might devalue the Z.
Vq30de. The v6 in earlier maxi
Why couldn't ford do this with the 3.5 duratec water pump.
Also, it looks like someone did the timing and it didn't last too much longer.
I don't think anyone been inside this engine
At 1:20..."whoever took care of this..." more like "no one took care of this."
Exactly! Poor car.
Anyway I cleaned it up nice
@speedkar99 yes, I love watching your channel. Like to see what you have next. I have a 2018 elantra with the 2.0 non turbo, non gdi. It's a manual. I have 128k on it. It has been the most reliable car I've ever owned. But I have to say this. I take great care of it, and I check my oil every 1,000 miles to make sure I add when necessary. Not many people even check the oil let alone change it. My car could never go the 7,500 miles it says to in the manual without adding. I change it every 4k with a good filter and a high mileage synthetic oil. If I waited 4k without checking...I'd be down prob 2 qts!
I have done many water pumps on these engines in the car no problem and really doesn't take that long.
It's not as easy as say a 4 cylinder though. Pretty tight.
Poor 2G-R. Some hack has been in there before. Those bolts should never back out even it it rattled from day one. Dang.
Well it was a known issue on the 2GRFSE
VVT death rattle killed my last car (Scion with 1.8L engine; it was a first-year known bug! The locking pin was made too large, and it'd bind up in the phaser after about 80k miles even if you did everything else right). I stupidly didn't take it to the shop when it started.
I have a 2018 Avalon with the 2GR-FE that's had all its shots. If I hear any racket out of the valve train this time, it's immediately going to the shop.
How many miles is your Avalon at? I've got a 2009 Camry with no rattle at 215k mi, maybe it's just been fixed for me and probably for you as well
How many miles did the 1.8 2ZR have? How long was it rattling for?
I recently had my wife break a valve spring on her rx350 so I feel it Mr crabs 😢
Ouch. How did that happen?
@@speedkar99 I think lack of maintenance from previous owner, I bought it at 200k mi it broke at 275. I changed the oil every 5k miles and flushed it every 10 but I think it just got brittle from that, apparently not changing the oil can make valve springs more brittle. I already replaced all 24 springs and a slightly bent valve, aisin pump and a bunch of other shit like timing guides. Set me back around a thousand dollars, which is still cheaper than a used 2gr
@@speedkar99 I'm just waiting for a few more gaskets to put it in and the rear bank VVTI pipe on this one was also rubber so I'm waiting for a metal line
@@speedkar99 sent you pics of the spring on FB messenger
lol...im forever scrounging for rags...like the idea of a donation box
Exactly!
What does "rebuild to the core" mean? -- Merci
Also: That engine is not going anywhere, with the stickers and the pieces in the oil pan :-p
I think TripleSqure is for VW?
Yes
It's beyond me why they would try fit such a big v6 into a front wheel drive. Just make it rear wheel drive and everyone will be happy.
Agreed. But that's what the GS and IS are for
im no mechanic but this probably had some vvt sounds. couldn't just happen in an instant. and there were bolt mark on vvt too. probably the owner as usual didnt care about the noise and bam...
I agree....the person who had this car before probably was oblivious to the noises.
Regardless the noise would have required an engine drop and timing cover off type of repair which is a huge expense.
@@speedkar99 well yeah but atleast where i live changing vvts is much cheaper than buying a new engine or a nee car. Or in this case buying a new valves or even a nee cyl head
Painful to watch. The past owner had close to zero maintenance
Great marketing. Hide those stickers everywhere! 👍🏻🤣
Oh yeah!
It must have alot of miles.
Wait, you aren't in the US? I thought you were, don't know like in Cali
Nah I'm not like the other car guys. Toronto Canada. In the next video you'll see some snow
Nice!! I'll be visiting Toronto next summer!
BUY V6 CAMRYS AND ES 350s NOW BEFORE THEY'RE GONE
Agreed! I guess I'll hold onto my 3.3L V6 Camry
This owner didint take care of this engine is so f…. So sad to see .
Attention viewers. Never ever ever ever try to remove the head bolts on ANY Toyota without that special socket. Did I say never ever? Don't try to match, dont try to guess. It's $13 or a $1300 at a machine shop, you choose. Oh, always clean the bolt head COMPLETELY before putting the socket and tap the socket in gently to seat it in. If you don't the head will round off and you're screwed
If that had been a VW engine, you would have bitched 5,000 times about the different style and size of bolts everywhere, oil leaks galore, etc, etc. What happened to the 3 bolts? Did they vaporise or did the factory leave them out?
Seems like they vaporized.
And yes Toyota used 4 different sockets for the entire engine...10,12,14 and 17.
Better than torx and triple squares of different sizes for the same part.
@@speedkar99 They used more than that, the camshaft carriers had two different sizes, there were triple squares somewhere, you had to buy a special tool for the head studs, the big ends and main caps had different sizes, and all this 25 years ago. So, just as bad as the VAG you hate so much :)
nice stickers
Thanks. I ordered a bunch but never got around to giving them out
👍🚗
hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha the parts in the oil pan bro
This design is garbage! Im so glad i work as mechanic in Italy where virtually every car is an ordinary 4cyl😂 servicing that must be hell! Car designed to be disposable? Pulling the engine to do any major maintenace is a joke! fwd V6 scheme sound a stupid idea too, im sure is not a bad engine if well kept but such big motor makes no sense mounted trasversally
Exceptional teardown video!!
Yeah it's a stupid design with these 3.5 L.
The older 3.0/3.3 design was easier
I agree with you. 4 cylinders inline is the best for fwd transverse layout. I don’t like a V6 in a front wheel drive car. Also, I prefer an inline 6 on rear wheel drive cars. Simplicity and robustness are king.
speedkar owned this motor he needs to learn to change the oil pmsl
I bought the car with this engine in it
@ 7:40 Now, I haven't gone searching on your page yet, but if you have a place where we can send garments to you, I guarantee that you won't need your brother's shirts or your wife's toothbrushes or old dresses to clean up the messes. Many of us would be thrilled to help out. Also, don't they make some sort of gigantic, flat tray to catch messes? Every time I see these videos, I try to think of something that's commonly available.
Yeah I need a tray
This is fake, Toyota has never had an engine failure. They've also never had frames collapse due to corrosion either
Knowledge is power
This is evidence that the 2GR-FE 3.5 is in fact an interference engine
The 3.5 2GR-FE is an interference engine
I can't believe how lazy/ignorant people can be with something as basic as timely oil changes.
Agreed! Neglect ☹️
thats one of those fake ass oil filters the CarCareNut warned ppl about with these engines. They come is real oem boxes with pn too, but the filters should have pn inside a pleat. Fakes are always without that number, for now atleast. Thats why yours smushed so easy and i made that mistake from an amazon seller. basically a $1 filter they charge retail for and they come from a toyota supply wearhouse that obviously gets boxes and the orings, even the plastic drain tube thing. also they are never stiff easy to squeeze and crush. the oems should never do that unless i imagine 20k mile change interval might make that possible but i cant test that obviously. i know the sellers email too. Only trust going to dealers for filters rn
Start a fan donation for clean old cloths. I would send u all my kids cloths too small now
I should!
Hi
first
Well thanks!!
Are you sure thats not a BMW engine looks like the same garbage.
I know right!
Must be an Eco boost fan
Pathetic vvti gears causing major damage and expense
HOW DO U NOT HAVE A BIHEXAGON YET
So many people strip/improperly torque these toyota head bolts when doing jobs like head gaskets bcz they use normal hexagons or triple squares even.
I've gotten away with the hex socket for all my past Toyota engine teardowns. This one put up a fight