Does EVERYONE Mask? | Autistic vs Introverted
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- čas přidán 17. 07. 2024
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Autistic vs Introverted
My non-autistic husband and I take the CAT-Q to find out if he's also masking. It sparked a really interesting (or at least I hope it was!) conversation about the difference between social anxiety and introversion vs being autistic.
Remember that CAT-Q scores can be higher for neurotypical people who have reduced well-being and social anxiety. If you have any concerns about your mental health, please see a medical professional, such as your GP.
Take the CAT-Q:
embrace-autism.com/cat-q/
Me taking the CAT-Q:
• How to Know if you're ...
If you like this, you may like my video about what masking feels like from the inside:
• But what does Masking ...
00:00 That's NORMAL
00:39 Introducing my Husband (and our social differences)
01:30 Q1
03:18 Q2
06:17 Does he have social anxiety?
06:40 Q3
08:22 Q4
11:26 Q5
15:18 Q6
17:49 Q7
21:09 Q8
22:21 Q9
24:27 Q10
25:53 Q11
26:56 Q12
29:06 Q13
30:54 Q14
31:38 Q15
33:13 Q16
36:23 Q17
37:33 Q18
38:06 Q19
39:57 Q20
41:48 Q21
43:49 Q22
44:39 Q23
45:40 Q24
47:32 Q25
52:17 is masking real?
55:00 Why are you like this, Meg?
DISCLAIMER: I am a second-year psychology student and a late-diagnosed #actuallyautistic individual. I am not a qualified healthcare professional.
*Books I'd Recommend about Autism:
Different not Less by Chloe Hayden (read if you want to cry):
amzn.to/40fKx2m
Aspergirls by Rudy Simone:
amzn.to/3xSZ6Mg
*Links with a star are affiliate links. The channel will receive a small commission if you buy anything on Amazon after clicking through with this link. There's no extra cost to you and any money will go towards putting out more content. I'd love to post twice a week and put more time into research for these videos. Thank you so much - I really appreciate every like and comment!
Thank you so much for watching this super long one! I hope you enjoy this discussion. It was lovely to chat about similarities as well as differences.
If you like this, you may like my video about what masking feels like from the inside:
czcams.com/video/H4vcMWB7fuQ/video.html
And here's the one where I do the CAT-Q on my own with some more details and awkward clips of me growing up 😂:
czcams.com/video/-RgYyi6SgWg/video.html
what an adorable lafe
I think you flow when you speak though - you're very easy to listen to. I can't place your accent. I hear Scottish, Irish, Liverpool and general Lancashire.
😊
I think neurotypicls do engage in masking behaviors, just like nuerotypical people can have anxiety. What matters is the role the masking plays and what it is masking. A nuerotypical person might mask because they fear their normal social behavior may not be accepted in a specific environment. An autistic person may masks as their entire social identity. We have varying levels of social comprehension, ranging from slightly impaired to lacking any natural understanding of social nteraction. My entire social presence is a mask. Without it, I'm flatly baffling and unacceptable to people. I had to slowly build up a series of statements and facial expressions and postures through mimickery and trial and error. To this day, I don't really understand WHY some of these behaviors lead to people accepting me or understanding what I'm trying to say. I just know that they work, so I engage in them.
Agreed. I personally have had to mostly stop masking all together because I was also masking depression, anxiety and PTSD and flat out suppressing my emotions and between those three and autism and ADHD(neither of which I'm diagnosed with, both of which I'm speculated to have, even by my therapist) I really hit a breaking point and got to the point I couldn't even smile anymore. And although that's not my main point, that alone expresses the difference between an average person masking some things vs those of us who have to put everything into creating a palatable persona.
But even when I was masking, and especially after I stopped, I've been called rude, told I'm hard to read, been called confusing and much more, on a regular basis even by people I've known my whole life. And I can understand why some things are jarring or upsetting but some things for the life of me will not stick.
And in both of those areas, a neurotypical person doesn't have that much weight on masking. They will not go into burnout and become unable to even smile from trying to be socially acceptable, and they will not be horrendously misunderstood by everyone from siblings, to parents, to childhood friends on a regular basis if they don't. The context, frequency, and intensity are what separate it from being normal, which is pretty much standard for many autistic behaviors.
yeah, i’m not autistic (probably have adhd tho) and i mask all the time because naturally i think out loud/talk to myself and make noises and yeah that wouldn’t be very accepted in public places unfortunately 💀
Neurodivergent people don’t “lack social interaction or knowing how” neurotypical people lack how to socially interact with neurodivergent people and vice versa. It’s just that most people are neurotypical and most social events cater to them. So it would be nice if neurotypicals met us halfway.
I agree, I am neurotypical (?) and have anxiety, but I mask it because I want to be “normal” or not “weird”
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Genuinely shocked by your husband's answers. I have autism and social anxiety and my scores are off the charts on this quiz 😅 I can't believe people don't feel like they are always putting on an act in social situations
Me too!! 😅
Yes, this video is so eye-opening to me! I knew not everyone experiences what I do, but to actually hear it like this--WOW!!
Must be so relaxing and easy
Me too, actually feeling quite upset by my answers. I am a very introverted person and i joke a bit that I am a little bit autistic. This video has made me realise I am both introverted and masking, masking a lot.
I’ve heard it called imposter syndrome.
20:10 "I don't think I ever really have felt that much like I have to pretend around you." That might actually be one of the biggest compliments you can give to someone, the ability to trust someone enough to show them who you are without fear of judgment is a wonderful thing to have, perhaps especially here with a tendency to mask.
I once described this on another related video as this: autistic masking is a second mask on top of the standard 'we live in a society so behave' mask everyone uses.
You just made e realize that my mask, can mask.....woah.
It's probably under though 🤔
wdym we live in a society so behave, I thought I only had one mask one.
Is it not the same mask? But we don't do it naturally, we are always thinking about it contiously and its exausting. It's like neorotypicals have a masking machine that is motorized and we have an oldtimey one that needs one of those hand powered slings to work.
I don’t see that as masking. I see that as internalising societal values. Not all of them, what we choose, but then putting what we value into action. I also reject some societal values and put into action what I value. That’s not masking. For example, you could say that I mask some stims because they make me look weird. Other stims I got rid of because I knew they’d annoy fellow co-workers and I didn’t want to annoy them and I want to keep a job. Not because I cared about what they thought of me but because I care about people and I lost the sense of being privileged to ignore the needs of others (like the need not to have someone get on their last nerve most of the time) once I was no longer a kid. An example of this is that I tapped my feet to the same repetitive 4 beat rhythm through much of high school, annoying the hell out of fellow students and teachers alike. Once I got out of school, I realised that wouldn’t go over well in the world of work and so I worked at finding substitutions that could go unnoticed. I just heard myself doing it one day and imagined how I’d feel if I had to hear that non-stop. Yeah, I live in a society so behave. I internalised the value.
The “do I look like a human” is so on point
For absolute YEARS I have said that my inner dialogue at work is, "this is how human people talk/act, isn't it?" It's so eerie to be so fully seen. ❤
I don't mask much, but I'm definitely not neurotypical. I just accepted from a very young age that everyone thought I was sitting weird, talking weird, walking weird, emoting weird, etc. and that was the end of it, I never really thought that I should pretend to be normal. Every time I've tried to act normal it ended up looking even more weird so I gave up quite fast.
I completely relate
I feel like I have a symbiotic relationship with my mask. I never recognized my mask until i started this journey but it is there. I think my involvement in religion earlier in my life taught me that its normal for people to act more serious and stoic and polite in certain situations (like in church listening to the minister) where you can be alot more free and fun while at home with the family. No cheering and pounding the tables like the other boys in the scout meetings even though it seemed like alot of fun. you have to be better behaved then that! they are something to look down on for being so uncontrolled.
its only now that I realise if I am really excited about something at home I'll jump around or run back and forth quickly or dance while flapping my arms and making a happy noise. (which I thought was normal to do in private) But when I am with others if something exciting happens I will feel something akin to a grey cloud rolling down the front of my skull repressing the emotions and I then need to manually emote the feelings I think I am supposed to be feeling in that moment. Almost like a cerebral Cortex override.
My mask is not a separate entity, Its me. its just not all of me. Its the part of me developed to interact optimally with the outside world. just like how my arm is part of me, Is me, but is also not all of me at the same time.
I once was highly offended when someone said I was “normal”. 😂 still would be a tad 😂😂
I just mask all day without even thinking it,
wdym by I will feel something akin to a grey cloud rolling down the front of my skull and what does cerebral Cortex override mean?@@raynac224
My problem with this questionnaire is that, on just about every question, my response was "What does this question mean? I don't understand it." I have no idea whether I do these things because I don't know what doing these things would look like if I did them. Perhaps I do them, but I don't have any vocabulary to talk about it. Maybe it's alexithymia (I have that). I don't know. I am conscious of thinking hard during social interaction "What should I do now?" My brain works very hard during social interaction -- constantly trying to work out what to do. It is like speaking a foreign language: you have to think what words to use, what inflections, what word order -- meanwhile a native speaker does all this automatically. Similarly in social interaction, I am working hard.
100%! I could not take this quiz because I was overthinking it so much, and even after listening to this discussion I don't know what my answer to most of the questions are.
Like the "making yourself look interested" thing. If I'm GENUINELY really interested, you can probably tell, because the topic will probably be sparking a lot of enthusiastic interruption and follow-on chatter from me. Or at least "tell me more" questions. If I'm actually super bored...I will let my face go slack or my eyes wander, in the hopes that they will go away and stop talking to me!
But if it's a situation where, say, someone I'm trying to have a good relationship with is doing the slightly-dull-small talk thing...then yes, I will actively try to look interested, and hope that the conversation progresses, or at least doesn't last long enough that that becomes difficult to do.
So...is that a "slightly agree"? A "slightly disagree?" IDK
@@emilymoran9152 I think that question could have been worded better, or maybe split into two. Some of my biggest masking efforts are in taking what I'm feeling inside and making my face match. So, I think consciously about what I'm feeling, then try to move my face to match that. It's more automatic now (automatic, not natural) because of decades of practice. There is a big difference in "making yourself look interested" when you're not (which is considered the polite thing to do for anyone in some situations) and "making yourself look interested" because you ARE interested, but you have to MAKE yourself look that way.
I also felt like some of the questions were too vague
The messy reality of how trying harder makes the divide WAY more painful on both sides because it seems that neurotypical interactions are about timing, bonding (which...I am only beginning to experience at age 34), social....authority/feedback/perception.
Covid made me realize I don't actually look at peoples eyes, I look at their mouths. I will glance at their eyes, but then right back at their eyes while their talking. I think this is both because I don't like to make casual prolonged eye contact, and because of sensory stuff with hearing. When I'm in a louder place with a lot going on I use lip reading to help me hear. All the masks really fucked that up.
Mouths isn't so bad, I prefer to point an ear at the person that I'm listening to, because that's what freaking ears are for. I don't hear with my eyes, so why would I look where I'm listening. I do it because people seem to get upset when I'm not, but really, I look where I'm walking, I look at my hands when I hand things over, so putting my eyes on the person that I'm listening to is just plain weird.
Same. I knew I avoided eye contact but everyone wearing masks made me realize how much I looked at noses/mouths to mimic eye contact. I stopped forcing myself to try to mimic eye contact and now I will look at someone's clothing or over their shoulder. Looking in their direction is good enough I say!
@@SmallSpoonBrigade oh my gosh yes! I love your logic on this. Agree 100%
@@thesincitymama One of the early clues that I might be autistic was that the things I would do would be pretty logical, but nobody else would do so.
In all fairness, people who are better at processing facial features and expressions probably have more reason to not. I just get very little information that way.
I lip read too and listen for the different tones in their voices to convey emotions behind the words.
Faces give me nothing.
I got diagnosed this year with ADHD and Autism without any prior research. I was masking so much that i was in heavy denial of the diagnosis. I was unaware of what masking was, so when I first did this quiz I answered the questions from my masking point of view. I then realized how much I was masking and had to figure out how I really felt about social interactions ect. My first test results were drastically different from my results now, because I didn't know what I was masking and how I actually felt. After acknowledging and accepting my diagnosis, and a metric ton of research, I finally understand how my brain works. It has been overwhelming but so liberating. I love who I was hiding, and I love that I can bring understanding about autism specifically to my friends and family. I'm the happiest I've been in a very long time. Now I look back and wonder how I didn't know I was neurodivergent 😂
Hey, how did you come to realize how much you were masking? I might have the same thing but cannot figure it out.?
For me masking is more like suppressing certain things and toning myself down until I know it’s safe to let my guard down a bit more and risk appearing bizarre.
I am so conscious of every little movement. I’d far prefer to be by myself so I don’t have to curate every action.
I remember "giving up" on trying to fit in and seem "cool" around 6 or 7th grade. My parents constantly had something to say about how I was behaving, random (and I mean random) kids would come up to me and find something to point out, it just seemed to me like I wasn't fooling anyone. After that, I leaned into the awkward; like literally just telling people I don't know what to say, or calling myself ditzy, anything to sort of get ahead of whatever people might think about me. I found lots of "weird" friends, and I still felt like the odd one out.
I'm just now looking into whether or not I'm autistic, and hearing people talk about their experiences has meant hearing direct quotes as if they were pulled straight from my head.
An old post, but I completely relate. I feel the odd one out even with my friends who are neurodivergent as well.
More couple videos please, Lewis (sp?) did great! I really like hearing the difference as I am very much surrounded by an autistic bubble of neurodiverse individuals and have no idea what a more neurotypical person thinks like so it's great to hear their perspective to understand the difference and be able to communicate that to others. I also like that Lewis himself is shy so to know the difference between shy and autistic is even better.
what does sp mean? just curious
@@marnenotmarnie259 sp is short for spelling. That is I'm not sure how to spell Lewis' names and it may be wrong.
At 27:20, the "if I'm consciously doing it, then it becomes weird" bit-yes! So if you just... don't naturally do it, at all, it's always weird, and you internalize that as, "I don't know how to do social interaction, I need to learn that so it isn't weird," but... it's still weird.
Ouch! Since childhood I've hated been photographed as I just look so awkward in photos 😬
Even when I think I'm posing well, my posture looks like I'm wearing someone else's body 🤖
'Wearing someone else's body' is such a perfect description of it!!
I was called Daria (cartoon character from the 90s). Everyone would be facing one direction and I’d be facing some other direction or looking at the camera but not facing it the same as everyone else. But I feel like they are some fungus pod that moves togethers and I’m not part of them.
@@JDMimeTHEFIRST Really? Daria was one of my top favourite shows and Buffy ofc 😄
@@JDMimeTHEFIRSTDaria is my hero.
Looking back at my childhood photos I realize I genuinely had NO clue how to properly smile. I always looked uncomfy or creepy 😅
It's funny how we can internalize this idea that other people don't like us based on our early experiences. When your husband said he just always had the default feeling that other people don't like him, it made me so sad because I immediately thought he was a very likeable person from the beginning! I'm always trying very hard in social situations, to make others comfortable and not seem too weird and I had pretty low self-esteem when I was younger after being bullied for being "weird" without much explanation. It takes a lot of work to get rid of that as your default! Everybody's really not judging as harshly as we sometimes think. Most of them are also focused on their own internal lives as well, and worrying about their own things.
I think a lot of that comes down to how it manifests. I was late to do any real talking, I could technically talk, but would rarely talk, and I pretty much refused to repeat myself, and what I had to say on the rare occasions where I cared to talk to the class were usually worth it. So, I wound up with the situation where I was both younger and older than most of the people around me and I didn't really have peers in the conventional sense.
Which ultimately resulted in substance abuse issues before becoming mostly fine with the whole situation.
I feel this sooo much.
The issue is kids and people with authority often judge harshly, especially if the victims differs from the norm. In mostly extraverted societies its natural to stomp on odd people, so odd kids often end up getting bullied by their fellow classmates and even teachers. Growing up in a hostile environment will always lead to a default feeling, like being ostracised by others and its also true to an extend. I'm an introvert living in a extraverted Germany, I originally came from Poland, a mostly introverted country and the difference is huge, in Poland people wont bother people for being odd, Germans on the other hand they will make you feel different. Polish and Germans are culturally very similar to each other, so this isnt about social norms which might look weird to a Polish like me, they will look, talk and judge you differently than default people.
I took the quiz about masking and then a friend of mine took it. My results were crazily high but i just expected my friends result to be similar. They got well under the mark. It shows that there ARE people out there who dont feel like theyre always acting in social situations, but despite having physical clear evidence if this, i still find is so so difficult to believe. This is all ive known, this is my normal. How can there be anyone else who doesnt feel this way? Surely everyone is like this? I just cant get over it haha
Haha, for me personally (as someone who doesn’t have autism but does have anxiety) it depends a lot on who I’m talking to and my general anxiety level. With some people (especially strangers and large groups), I can act differently around them if I feel like I can’t fully be myself, but then there’s others where I don’t really think or worry about it as much, like close family. But if I’m feeling more anxious, I can do it more to try to appear more “normal” or casual to mask the anxiety. I do feel like a lot of people tend to go into a kind of “people” mode in social situations whether they’re consciously thinking about it or not, in order to fit in with the societal norm.
This video was such lovely watch. As a person who is going on off wondering if I have autism or am just introverted and socially awkward it was really helpful. Thank you for making this content. (Your husbands voice and way of speaking is also really calming. Could listen to you two talk all day)
If someone seems socially anxious it make me more socially anxious and more worried about what to say etc and that I have to ‘take charge’ of the conversation which feels like an enormous pressure to me because I feel like I have to fill in the gaps and then I might end up talking too much/say the wrong thing/over share etc or just go mute. If someone is really confident I usually end up running out of things to say. Either way it’s exhausting.
Oh my God, repeating a line in the exact same tone. I have practiced this so much. I worked training horses for many years, and the owner of the barn would say "good morning" every day when she came out into the barn. I would always, from the first day I worked there, say "good morning" back to her. So many many days, she would get annoyed with me. Say "well what's wrong with you this morning?" or "I guess someone's in a mood", and I had absolutely no clue what she was talking about. One day I actually recorded her without her knowledge, as she gave me her morning greeting. I practiced with this recording for so long, so I could say "good morning" exactly like she did. I eventually got it to where she was happy with my greeting every day, because I had practiced enough to exactly copy her. I haven't worked there in years, and never speak to that woman, but my carefully practiced "good morning" is still my standard greeting for anyone who doesn't know me well.
Wow, this comparison with your husband was so enlightening for me. So many traits of mine I always thought of as socially anxious or introverted traits don't appear to have been that at all. So many things I thought were universal just aren't. I had no idea what a restful interior world people who are neurologically typical are experiencing. Thank you , your channel has been helpful, encouraging, and eye-opening.
When your husband said he would only be aware of what his face was doing in social situations if he "was aware of something horrendous, like food being on it" I thought that was the perfect metaphor autism really, or rather for how being autistic in a world where other people exist feels to me - like there is food on my face every day, all day. (Not the autism itself, that part - the part that likes to sing out loud regardless of circumstances and derive LOTS of satisfaction from how intriguing a place the world is - that part makes me happy when other people aren't messing with my head.)
I think this depends so much on the person. I find a problem I have with these comparisons is that she's so clearly struggling with social anxiety and he is not, and this skewers their results so much. I'm not a socially anxious person and on face value I don't score high on masking tests but I don't because a lot of the questions are just big question marks to me. Say on questions about facial expressions and body language, both my own and that of others', I can't answer them because I genuinely don't know. I don't know what my face and body is doing in social situations nor do I understand what it means when other people do them either. I'm just preferably perpetually zoned in out in social situations. It always baffles me when people point out I am making a specific expression or seem to feel a certain way based how I act, because I just have no idea.
I only feel social anxiety if I suddenly lose my dissociated state and become self-aware, at which point I feel extremely awkward because I just don't know wtf I'm doing and all my mental effort goes into thinking about that then I suddenly can't think of other things, let alone trying to have a meaningful conversation.
Also, because I grew up being unable to hide my difference due to facial scarring and being non-white in a completely white community, I think I learned early on that there's no point trying to be someone I'm not because I'll never fit in anyway. I could never try to act in a way that would suggest I'm playing a role and would not feel authentic to myself, because I'd feel so uncomfortable doing that. I just hate presenting myself as something else I am not in general, which is also why I dislike acting. I am ok with roleplaying but not if it means I also need to dress up and act the part rather than describing a person different from myself.
@@Kamishi845 You are right that one couple comparing themselves is going to be skewed towards their own traits. It would be really interesting to me to see this comparison repeated on a larger scale. I also prefer to be zoned out in social situations. I used to bring books with me everywhere for that purpose (like even to dinners, dances, to the beach) and one year when I was a kid I spent the whole year blurring my eyes to help me see the world less. But in addition to being autistic, I grew up with narcissists (for real, no buzz word intended) who thought the purpose of my existence was to benefit them. So I did learn some survival related masking skills. I can sometimes tell what other people's body language meant, particularly after the fact and especially if I can see it repeated in an external situation later, like on a face on TV. I can almost never tell what my body language is conveying to others. I generally feel (or felt) happy and extremely interested by the world, and people see this as anger. But I do have a bank of social rules and a pattern of postures and behaviors that I have observed send certain social signals so I stitched them together and made a person out of them. (I thought that was what everyone was doing, that that is simply what growing up felt like, not that some people just naturally sent the right signals, or could adjust subconsciously when they didn't.) That helps for the first few minutes of a social interaction, but the longer it goes on it just starts to fall apart. Problem is, masking don't work. There is no way to cover the weird. I would call them more like appeasement skills than masking :) And the longer you engage with it, the more you lose your authentic self, but you still get the isolation anyway.
That was super interesting. He was so sure he didn’t do those things. He didn’t have to think about it at all. The question was just foreign to him. I got a 134 on the CAT-Q, by the way, with my strongest reply being in Assimilation. My typical way of dealing with large groups is to stand a neutral distance away and stare into the distance. My worst fear is that Ii’ll look at someone too long and be accused of staring.
I got 138 on CAT-Q never realized how much I mask and 170 on RAADS-R
I got a 137
134 as well, and I do tend to stare and someone accuses me of staring at them.
I am male, autistic(diag @41) and adhd(diag @23). My scores: 134, comp 52, mask 44, assim 38. I remember the first time I heard people talking about method acting and I thought "Isn't that just living..." Turns out nope, not for most people... hehehe... oops...😅
Depending on who's doing it, method acting can actually be "more" than masking - and can be downright abusive to the people around the actor. There was a documentary on the making of Man in the Moon, with Jim Carey playing Andy Kaufman, that I can highly recommend (Man in the Moon was a really great movie, too). His version of "the method" resulted in him verbally and physically assaulting the crew as well as meeting with Andy Kaufman's actual daughter and "channeling" Andy so that she could talk to her dead estranged father. Now, the vast majority of actors do not take it that far, but some of the more famous (infamous?) method actors (like Jim Carey and Marlon Brando) do.
I got 138 Compensation subtotal: 48, Masking subtotal: 48, Assimilation subtotal: 42 and 170 on RAADS-R
RIGHT?? My mom said recently that she was surprised autistic people could be actors like Anthony Hopkins, and I was so baffled by that. Acting feels like life with more of a predetermined personality I can have in mind as the "goal", it's easier on my mental health than having to try and express the nebulous and everchanging concept of "me".
Thanks so much for this. I have an autistic friend who really insisted I had to be autistic too because we were "so similar", but I didn't think I was. I took the test and it showed I wasn't and she said I was in denial. I felt like I was going crazy trying to squint and see what she saw. But this video made it really clear what autistic masking really is and that I'm not doing that. I feel like I can relax now and not feel crazy! (I know this probably isn't a typical reason people watch your videos but it really helped me, so thanks!).
Looking back I think when I started masking was when someone, or rather the first person, in high school told me they were impressed by how little I cared what other people thought of me. My initial thought was that I didn’t realize I was supposed to care and that I didn’t know what I was doing so strangely that warranted that comment.
What I’ve observed from this video I think can be boiled down to this: he seems to be moving and acting on instinct, whereas she seems to be hearing a critical internal voice directing her every move, and it’s like she has a million voices critiquing her behavior from the inside, and that lack of confidence in the way you move through the world can bleed out and be observed by others as a kind of nervousness. This explains A LOT about how I feel I’m being perceived by the “cool kids” and how I never felt like I fit in with them because they all seemed so naturally cool and I always felt awkward, out of place, and nervous because I didn’t know what to do with my body or what to say and I think it might boil down to acting on impulse verses over analyzing every little thing.
The difference for me is that with masking.. well... I thought I liked oranges for years. I genuinely believed I liked oranges. I hate oranges and eating them is a chore, but because I've been told my whole life I should like oranges, I genuinely believed I liked them and didn't allow myself to be consciously aware of the dislike (I struggled to eat oranges but I wasn't aware as to why)
Masking kind of erases a part of yourself in order to conform. Sometimes the self erasure reaches a point where you no longer have any idea who you are - which is why taking off the mask can be dangerous and lead to breakdowns. Because suddenly you realise you never liked oranges at all.
Yes, this! Conversations about masking tend to really confuse me. My first answer to masking questions always tends to be the neurological answer, but then when I start thinking about the question more, I think of lots of country examples and it all becomes a confusing mess. I do feel like, most of the time, the real me is locked inside during social interactions, but I don't necessarily have to work hard at the mask (if that's even what it is), it's like this thing that's so automatic. I don't really find this process itself exhausting, but I do find it exhausting not to have very many safe harbors where I can just relax and let that locked inside part breathe and just be.
I was just thinking of this last night! I was curling up with my favorite blanket and thinking back to a time when I wouldn’t let myself have a favorite anything or my favorites were all the “expected” favorites and not things I actually enjoyed, to the point that I started saying that I don’t actually have favorites at all and I thought it was weird that anyone did. Nope, I just masked away my own identity so much that I no longer knew myself enough to know my favorites of anything. Now I know my favorite blanket and that’s pretty important to me.
Oh man, 19:00 minute mark, going through the stages of school and how you learned to adjust behavior hit me like a Mac truck... I think my adjustment schedule moved a bit more rapidly, I went through my "I'm going to be extroverted" stage in highschool (and didn't attend college) but otherwise.. very much same just vivid memories of being othered and not understanding why, then on to the why being brutally pointed out to you.. just.. soul crushing. Looking back I just feel so sorry for baby me sometimes.. she deserved so much more.
I always mask outside because then I don't have to think about my facial expressions... and because my nose is cold.
😂😂
So relatable. ♡ Even after regulations were dropped. :3
I loved this about wearing a mask (esp. at my restaurant service job) but now I feel too self conscious about wearing one even if I have a cold.
I just took this test a few days ago. I’m 167 🙃
I also thought until today that everyone was thinking and feeling about every single part of their body all of the time
I got 138 Compensation subtotal: 48, Masking subtotal: 48, Assimilation subtotal: 42 and 170 on RAADS-R :)
I have ADHD and BPD (and a lot of social anxiety as a result of those). I scored average on compensation (23) and masking (34), but high on assimilation (48) and above average on total score (105).
I definitely feel the need to play a character when I’m socially interacting with people. But I feel like it moreso comes from the need to cover up attention issues from my ADHD and the need to cover up my lack of confidence stemming from my lack of sense of self stemming from my BPD (plus the need to suppress extreme mood swings when interacting with people). I imagine this is in contrast to people with ASD who mask due to more hardwired autistic traits.
It’s interesting because I definitely mask, but it’s for reasons that aren’t necessarily autistic.
When you get down to it, the differences between ASD, ADHD and BPD are pretty subtle, but distinct nonetheless.
How do you know you have BPD and not ASD?
@@avtoportret suppose I don’t really lol. But I’ve researched both conditions pretty thoroughly, and although I do resonate with some of the symptoms of autism, I resonate more with the symptoms of BPD and ADHD, and my therapist agrees (though to be fair I haven’t been screened for autism so it’s not impossible, but unlikely).
Great video ! Really interesting to see how your husband scored on the test and his explanations around his answers… you guys are really sweet together too 😊
One line in the group of camouflage, (performing, not being oneself in social situations) reminds me of how my brother and I will play-fight solely for anyone in the vicinity. It’s like saying, “look how sibling-like we are! Look, look! You can’t deny it! How could you?”
We’ve never talked about it, but we both know the other is acting. It’s unnatural but we fall into the play perfectly every time.
It also reminds me of how my mom lives her life. Sometimes she will mourn aloud about how she wants a lakeside house (she doesn’t like swimming) or threaten one or both of me and my brother over grades (she’s an Asian mom) but never follow through. Once, on a video call to her parents, my bro and I were performance bickering again, and she complained about us and how we’re always “like this” (we’re not) then reached down, grabbed both of our skulls and BONKED THEM TOGETHER. I thought that was only a cartoon thing??? My bro and I exchanged a look of “wtf” but had to get back to our regularly scheduled show.
My highest score was indeed camouflage, why do you ask?
I've been asked if I'm on the spectrum by lots of people in my life, but I've been told by two psychiatrists that I do not fit the diagnosis criteria. My theory is that I have PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance) which is a proposed subtype of autism that is not fully recognised yet. This has been sort of confirmed for me since I started dating my partner who is also not diagnosed but is much more autistic than me. I feel like our answers would be similar to you guys, with him being the autistic person and me being the "neurotypical" person. Although I would probably score a bit higher than him but still in within the "neurotypical" range. One of the things that differentiates PDA from typical autism is that we don't tend to struggle socially as much, but we have a lot of the other symptoms, the biggest of which is in the name so basically if I am "supposed to" do something it makes it 1000x harder to do it, compared to if it's neutral or I'm not supposed to do it. Because of this I struggle with executive dysfunction that seems similar to ADHD, but again I don't fully fit the diagnosis criteria for ADHD and none of the medications help me. Whereas my boyfriend took the same meds as me and it completely changed the way he functions because he actually has ADHD. I was always silently thinking "but doesn't everyone do that?" when autistic people described their symptoms, but since actually living with an autistic person I realised there's different degrees to it that I didn't see before. I definitely have something, because I've always gravitated towards autistic and ADHD people like before they even received diagnoses, I've always been in the autistic friend group. But I'm generally the least socially awkward of the group and I naturally take charge in group situations within groups of autistic people. But when I'm around a bunch of neurotypical people I become much more quiet and fade into the background.
have you seen the recent PDA video on this channel? it's great!
@@jessicest I have, it came out just after I posted this comment :) super validating video
Thank you so much for this video, It's helping my imposter syndrome a lot!
Thank you both, this was so helpful to see the different perspectives!
my scores are similar to yours, but I'm also extremely comfortable in my skin. for me these things don't correspond to any sort of social anxiety or discomfort (anymore). it's simply that I had to learn how to be acceptable to neurotypicals, so I'm casually aware of lots of stuff that they're totally oblivious to.
but at this point I can handle damn near any situation better than most neurotypicals specifically because of that, and I do it my way, because I just got fed up with coddling strangers who are mostly only going around expressing their weird self infatuations.
at some point my response to people telling me I'm not normal was to simply point out that they're not competent. and when I internalized what that really meant, I was free of most of this bullshit.
This is such a great comparison! Thank you so much to you both for explaining!
I say "Take care" because I once read a quote from Thich Nhat Hanh saying that was a loving and supportive thing to say. So I'm not repeating something someone said to me, but I am following advice about how to be social.
Omg what you said about movement and flow is so relatable. I especially notice this with dancing and stuff. Like I just can't flow as well as other people and it bothers me. I like dancing because it's fun but I know I look awful doing it loll
Thank you so much for this video! You guys are so sweet! I suspect my husband is autistic and this was just so incredibly relatable! I am like your husband. So introverted, a bit anxious socially, but just not autistic. My husband is much more like you, very introverted, but can in some ways even seem more confident in some situations than I am. I also suspect he might be masking a bit less than you are, but I guess that’s normal for a male. He just doesn’t always seem to care so much what people think of him and he’s more unaware of some social cues and things. This video is the first one that I’ve felt it was so clear to me. And it’s because you both explained your experiences 🙏
Delightful to see y'all in conversation this way, Mr. & Ms. NowWhat! ☺️ Mr. Cricket (also ND) is better at / more concerned with masking than I've ever been (which is why he's been way more successful in the corporate world), but we're so accustomed to each other's company and behaviors that I imagine the way we interact would seem quite odd to allistic folks. We mimic a lot (tons of echolalia & palilalia), pre-script convos with anyone but each other, and avoid social situations that demand any level of performative normativity. Me, especially, because it seems pointless to me, and I'm awful at it. I'm just used to people seeing me as weird. 🤷😅
I so enjoyed this video, its so good to hear you being honest about whats going on because its really hard to talk about these things, even with friends sometimes, but because there are videos like this and people are talking about it more now, it makes it easier. So good to have a laugh about the strategies we use and the awkward moments. I loved the story about wanting to get someones attention and thinking about it so long it got weird, I so relate to that 😂
This is so helpful to hear the different perspectives as someone questioning! This makes me think of when I was in the process of realizing I was queer how helpful it was to hear explicitly what the straight perspective was. We love an ally in all forms!
Fun video! It’s so interesting to see you both reacting to the test.
One thing that makes me doubt if I'm neurodivergent is my childhood experience. I loved primary school and I don't remember if I had social issues or anxiety at all! I know I had some other ND behaviours and apparently I struggled with friends a bit in my first school that I only went to for a year, but that's all the evidence I've got. I loved my other primary school, I was pretty obsessed with learning and reading and I generally got on with the other kids. Nobody told me I was weird that I can remember.
My problems all kicked off in secondary school really, and even then I don't feel like I was masking. I did used to just kind of sit quietly and feel confused when my friends went on about stuff I didn't understand like sports and boys lol but I just thought I wasn't interested. In Year 10/11 I tried to wear cooler clothes and act a bit cooler so I didn't get picked on I guess, and then in 6th form I became a goth and adopted a "who cares" attitude 😅 Yet I had some very traumatic situations and somehow it's translated to me now being socially anxious and scoring highly on the masking test as well as other tests for autism/ADHD etc. So I have no clue what I am!
One of those questionaires where the questions get answered differently depending on how you interpret the questions. There's a matter of strictness, literallness, and how you define the words.
i think it would help a lot if the question explicitly included both the masking behavior and a hint at the behavior or anxious emotional state that they're expecting to see it suppressing, rather than just asking about the masking behavior.
I absolutely loved the chemistry and natural way you and your husband communicate with each other! You genuinely seem to be a very happy couple and I very much enjoyed the video and the humor 😀.... I cracked up 😂 a few times at the dialogue! Thanks for being so open and sharing with us!
I started watching videos on autism to help me understand more about it for a close friend who was recently diagnosed. What it's ended up doing (besides giving me some serious clues as to why her and I seem to get each other so well when others don't get either of us very often) is made me feel more seen than I ever have in my life. Your descriptions of your school years, and about being shocked to find out that everybody else isn't faking nearly every aspect of their social interactions, and constantly asking themselves questions like "is this what a human would do in this situation?" have me repeatedly going "yes! this!" I think I need to get evaluated for autism. It could answer a lot of questions I've had about why I've never seemed to fit in, and why aspects of life that others just seem to breeze through, have always felt to me like riddles with no answer
I really enjoyed listening to this discussion, didn't feel long! thank you, it was so revealing
Thank you so much! I'm so glad!
I'm pretty sure I'm autistic. Tomorrow I have a psquiatrist appointment and I'm finally going to ask for a diagnosis. I'm scared, specially because my mom and brother dismissed my suspition, but I relate sooo much to this experiences. I've been watching you and other autistic youtubers and tiktokers and burst into tears seeing that someone else have gone through the same things and thoughts and that some things that I believed normal, are not. Btw, I scored 144 on that test 😅
I script for phone calls too! I feel like i forget things because the call is so stressful so i plan in advance. This video was super interesting! Great idea
This was a really great video for me, recent ADHD diagnosis, and (continued) anxiety diagnosis at the moment, but strongly suspecting being on the spectrum. And for a while I really was curious, "Is what I'm doing because of anxiety or something else?" Because, of course I get anxiety in social situations in the sense that as a whole I am introverted and for sure have this social anxiety, but more and more I'm finding that maybe its for different reasons than what I thought, or there's MORE than just what I thought on top of everything. Definitely found myself answering how you did vs how he did. Lots of great points brought up by both of you!
sidenote, the getting people's attention thing is THE WORST for me. Especially when they're in conversation but I need to ask a question, like at work with a colleague..... can never figure out the proper time, or proper words, because I've said, "hey a client has a question when you have time" but I also would just try waiting awkwardly in the background, and in both scenarios, sometimes people seem frustrated? Like, when is it acceptable to politely interrupt without telling them to leave their convo (and the timing)??? And when should I just wait till they're done? Horrendous.
You could take eyecontact and say, 'sorry to interrupt you. A client has a question when you have time' Usually locking eyecontact with someone means you want to say something, and tells them ahead of time before you've actually interrupted them. (If you arrived in the middle of their story)
A really delightful approach to a sensitive subject. ❤❤❤
Thank you so so much 💛💛
Whenever someone talks about thinking of "acting like a human", I run through the scene in Breaking Dawn when the Cullens are trying to teach Bella to act "normal" for the meeting with her dad.
Your are such a sensitive, thoughtful, intelligent and strong man. That combination of qualities is indeed very rare these days in humans and especially in men. Thank your for talking about your personal insights, feelings and stories, brave to do it here on CZcams. Also thank your for talking about the shadow aspects of our unhealthy western societies and what consequences they have on the individual and collective level. What a gem 💎 to find people like you on CZcams.
I love listening to others describing their experiences like this and wish it was discussed casually more often. I still feel/do most of these, but as I get older it's changing from an anxiety of what others think of me into wanting to learn and be a better version of myself. Once I learn I can take the elements I like and use them to "build" upon myself.
You are both lovely. I can relate... learning a lot from these vids.
Hi I'm new to your channel and wanted to just say how much I really appreciate a video with a Neurotypical husband, and neurodivergent wife, because that's the exact situation I find myself in as a wife. I am 55 and newly diagnosed.
My husband has been happy to watch videos like this, he says it's extremely helpful to him in figuring out how to better accommodate me. And there really have been some huge changes in how we communicate, and how safe and relaxed I feel around him, in ways I didn't even realize were a thing.
I hope you don't mind some friendly feedback about the video… I love that you don't have loud music like some autism channel videos do (very weirdly in my opinion because it's sensory overload).
But the constant little sound-effect noises and animations/videos are sensory overload for me. They are I think unnecessary. There is an Australian guy with a channel and I love how all he does is talk, no fancy stuff, it's not needed.
I'm looking forward to diving into a lot more of your videos, thank you so much for all your time and effort putting this out there. It really is a lifesaver and a godsend at this point for me.
to Hubby, I like the timbre your voice, and I think that, when you find that one shower where you love to sing, and you hit the room's resonance, your family will be surprised at how comfy and posh that space is!
I also related to what you were saying regarding the cat -Q your answers and explanation of those answers. I honestly never really thought about how much I do the internal monologue thing...."how should I be standing, what do I do with my hands, am I making the correct facial expressions...?" I don't think I realized that I did that so much, it sort of became a natural thing to me. It's exhausting sometimes but it is really nice to know that I'm not so alone in the way I think and act.....
You're both so nice, thanks for sharing this with us. Wish we were friends!
Thank you for this! I just got diagnosed as being on the spectrum (mostly sensory sensitivity, monotropism, and shutdowns) after being diagnosed with DID and ADHD and I started wondering if my DID could be an extreme form of masking, but after seeing you guys compare, I don't think it is! A lot of my answers were like your husband's: I'm not actively putting on a different character and analyzing if it is working and then tweaking it as necessary... I just feel like I'm myself-- except that what I like, what my mannerisms are, even my voice, temperament, and handwriting changes. So thank you for helping me to answer that question!
Thank you for doing this video. The interesting thing I saw here was neurotypical people may have the same thoughts as atypical people, but neurotypicals don't enact behaviors to compensate. Most likely this is because neurotypical brains are able to build the neural connections to facilitate social interaction. But, atypical brains cannot (or can achieve significantly less), requiring atypicals to create behaviors to sustain social connections. I mean, we are a social species, so, when a brain sees it needs social connections to survive, the organism does whatever necessary to compensate. Seeing this was really helpful to me.
Your husband at the end, "if I hadn't known you and talked to you about this stuff, I would think to myself, "who does these things?" was wild to me, because the whole video I was thinking to myself, "how do people not do these things?" Ohhh I see why my therapist said I'm autistic now
i am having trouble with that idea now. i discovered all of this as i was preparing to talk to person about the subject of neurodiversity. I felt very guilty about not knowing enough to properly engage so went to go research to prep for the eventual conversation to guide it to a nice flowing situation......here i am...i scored really high on the masking test...but i still can't see how people don't do this...[like, naw...i'm the one faking the symptoms and exaggerating because everyone else should be scoring higher than me]
I just watched you for the first time today and then you and your husband right after. You two are so weird and so perfect each other,,, and I love it when I find my fellow weirdos. Us weirdos might be the minority but according to my research,,, we're actually the ones who are doing EVERYTHING in life right, like how the Gods intended it. Thank you for putting yourselfs out there on CZcams,,, it helps people to not feel so alone and inspires hope. Even know I don't even know you two, I already love you both ❤
Cute couple. I can relate. Thanks for sharing ❤
The “I don’t mind the drama behind the scene and I just think where this is gonna end is so real!”
What a sweet supportive fella you have. ❤😊
I watched your last video before this one. I had been researching becausse I think my husband, son (17) and daughter (19) are autistic and my son has adhd elements. My husband suggested the other wk perhaps I ought to also look at myself. After watching your video I had just always thought I was very shy. I used to get so worked up going to my husbands work events I would vomit. I replay old conversations in my head from years ago from where I got a name wrong! Even though I know everyone else involved has prob forgotten this, it still upsets me. I realised all the things my daughter was confiding in me as a problem, I had been comparing my experiences saying it was how I felt. I went onto Embrace Autism and scored high, esp on the masking. I even feel awkward in my own family get-togethers, or even when my mum comes to my house for a cup of tea and chat.
I like your videos
It helped me a lot
Especially at school
Do you think you could make a video about unmasking towards people and how to do it
This video is like a conversation with friends! of course, i'm just listening, but if I didn't enjoy that well I wouldn't be here 😋
i always try to mask but when am with close mates inside i drop it but when someone i dont know even with mates i have to put it back on, it is very draining
I thought everyone did these until I took the quiz....I literally had to learn how to hold myself to "be normal". I also was frequently teased for moving my hands while I talk and "staring into space" which I had to learn to unlearn. Hell, I got anxious about my facial expressions while watching a movie. I find it odd that I would do this as a man, knowing that most men don't, but I grew up Mennonite so I had to look like "everything's good, no issues here"
I love you two. I love all your videos. 😃
15:18 I'm the opposite. I'm used to being too quiet for people to hear me, and I feel embarrassed to walk up and interrupt a conversation just to say hello. Unless the person is facing me, I walk up and touch their shoulder or arm gently, so they have to turn and face me. I only do this in certain situations or environments.
PS Just discovered your channel and the feeling of relief and grief I feel is incredible. I'm 29 and everything I've watched of yours so far feels so true to me. Thank you so much for sharing what you have learned! It's helping me unravel the biggest question I've had all my life: why am I the way I am? Thank you!
Sometimes I'm not sure how much I mask exactly, these questions tend to confuse me to be honest but the way that social interactions occur to me is like... You know in those cartoons where kids use a trenchcoat and stack on top of each other to appear like an adult and inevitably fall over revealing the ruse? That's how I feel. Every. Single. Time. Lol
I was coping pretty well with the video until you started talking about eye-contact (I do "script" conversations in my head). I learnt about make eye contact from watching some documentary from a body-language expert many many years ago and one of the best things about working with autistic people was we started getting advice not to make eye contact or force others to do it - it was such a relief. Then in your video during that conversation you cut to these smiling people staring at the screen - and that immediately weirded me out (especially fake docter man). This made me realise that something I liked about your videos is the way you make "eye contact" with the camera is super comfortable to watch :)
Thank you for distinguishing explicitly between “require” and “prefer.” Some needed supports I do not prefer any more than I preferred to wear braces on my teeth or have my appendix out, which contradiction induces paralysis when compelled to address “what do you even want?”
Oh wow. Your hubby sounds so much like mine! My hubby doesn't even understand the concept of analyzing previous conversations and social encounters and has no idea why I always have overanalyzed every encounter with anyone outside our immediate family unit. However, after 23 years of marriage, I can see when he is putting on an extroverted "mask" when talking with his coworkers, which I used to be in awe of and now find amusing. He just doesn't look back in general though and prefers to be focused on the present.
Oh my god! 25:55 😂 I just realized that I do that quite often, usually before going to bed after I wash my face I look in the mirror and just pretend I’m speaking or laughing at someone’s joke or listening to someone telling a funny/shocking/interesting story to check what it looks like and I try to feel which muscles I use so I can replicate that later 🥸 or sometimes when I feel awkward in a social situation I will go back later in a bathroom and try replicating what I did with my face and body to check if it looked okay. But idk if that’s autism or my body dysmorphia lol
So far, I find myself agreeing with your husband on why I do what I do, but I end up choosing different answers to his. There's a bit of subjectivity in this self reporting thing. My idea of planning a conversation involves being deliberate about points I'm going to bring up, little things I say. Things he said he disagrees with, I agreed with even though our thought processes sound very very similar. . . I worry (when I took this quiz.) It isn't hard to predict the answers that give you a higher or lower score on this self report, and if you're wishy washy about when, how, and why you do the things in these questions, you could swing it either way. And some of them are down to anxiety (which could be because of autism, or just its own thing) . . . Getting a diagnosis as an adult in my neck of the woods is difficult.
I don’t know how old you are in the older photos/videos but the way you style yourself makes you look so much younger, it’s wild
The ones with the black hair and side fringe are from 10 years ago! Eek! The short hair was about 12 years ago.
I preplan so much of my interaction that i rarely think of it in the moment because I've played and replayed the possibilities ahead of time.
I got a 151 on the cat-q 😅 The other day I was trying to explain to someone why my new work environment felt uncomfortable. I ended up saying, it's like playing Among Us as the imposter, but you have a giant red dot on your character that says "I'M THE IMPOSTER" that everyone will see if you walk to the right. So you have to figure out how to navigate the game without ever turning to the right. Thats how I feel out in public all the time. I feel like an imposter, an alien creature, a robot posing as a human and everyone will know that I don't belong if I slip up even once.
I am (freshly) diagnosed with ADHD and social anxiety and got a very high score in that test, way above the average autistic woman. The questions were so strangely on point, I actually don't even know what to think anymore, lol. I talked to my hubby about some questions and he was like "wait, not eveybody does that????" Yeah, so thank you so much for making a comparison video
Meg! Meg! Meg!
Firstly, pleased to meet you. I think you're great. And your husband, who I've just met.
Secondly, at 02:23 "I have an internal commentary". THAT'S where it happens!! With the NT, there is no such commentary. It's all automatic in real time. There's no thinking involved, or wondering how to behave or move or look. We'll actually pick up the excitement or sadness or whatever of the other person. We'll instantly be in the same state as them, so we don't smile because we imitate them. No! Instead, we smile because now we are happy too and and we smile when we are happy!
And it goes MUCH further than that. They then pick up OUR emotional state, which is now happy because of them, which makes them even happier.
So we get a crazy *resonance* where are both extremely in the same extreme state of happiness. 😄
When I interact with a person who is masking - doing exactly what you describe - this totally does not happen. My emotions get horribly confused. If it's me that's happy and they don't pick it up, my emotions go into overdrive trying to elicit a response from them, which never comes. Failure to connect at a real time emotional level. I'm left feeling very strange indeed, and they get bugged by my excess emotions. The interaction just doesn't work smoothly at all.
Another key thing is this: When someone is masking, there's a HUGE delay before they respond. With the NT, there is no perceptible delay. It's like they are feeling our emotions as quickly as we are.
That's all for now. I've only got to 02:25 in your wonderful video but wanted to catch the moment. FYI, my (really smart) daughter was diagnosed with autism recently, and likely ADHD too, so all this is highly relevant to me.
I score quite high on the CAT-Q for a guy, 153 (C=52; M=45; A=56). At this stage in life (early 50s) I tend to see my masking and the rest of it as very 'rule-based' in my mind, like there are these rules that I'm supposed to follow, and it's just become an ingrained habit that I just follow these rules all of the time, when I interact with people. When I hear other people talk about their own motivations for masking and the like, it seems it has to do a lot with external locus of control, they're doing it because they perceive the outside world wants/expects it from them, and they care a lot about what the outside world will think/feel if they don't do it, whereas for me I see it as just coming from within myself, the rules I have in my mind about how I'm supposed to behave/act, and I'm just going inward and tapping into these rules and I'm putting the pressure on myself to follow these rules because I will judge myself harshly if I fall short of following these rules in any way (I'm never concerned with or thinking/caring about what others will think/feel about me if I do or don't mask and the rest of it; that doesn't factor in for me).
(* it does seem like it started out the other way early in life, but at some point that switched, I think it was in high school)
"I just go in and talk to people. If it doesn't go well, it doesn't go well 🤷🏼♀️" omg hoooowwwww can I be like this?!? I could NEVER be this chill about ANY conversation!!
When saying goodbye I like the George Costanza. End on a laugh, intentional or not 😅
My internal social scripts are decision trees that lead me to certain scripted (written down somewhere) responses or specific sentence structures that I then fill in based on the context of the conversation.
I couldn't help but laugh at you saying "Do you write it down?" on Q4 - I found an old notebook yesterday and there was just whole page full of questions written down to ask someone I was going to see in person, I couldn't help but facepalm, I wasn't diagnosed at that point or even had autism on the radar, but I get bad impostor syndrome sometimes and finding these little things helps fight it!
As an autistic person who has done a lot of work to unmask in my current adult life, it's actually so validating to agree with your husband here on most questions! Like oh, yeah, I don't mask anymore!
I'm of course very weird, and obviously autistic due to said lack of masking. It's cool to see how autism & masking really can be separated despite their deep correlation.
I have my own... view on masking that I'm not sure how the two concepts can fit together. I draw my views mostly from Slavoj Žižek and Lacan's ideas on authentic subjectivity. They believe that our true self is just an illusion, and we're always playing a role or wearing a mask when interacting with others. It's interesting because when we talk about masking, it's often seen as a unique challenge for us, but I personally think we're all doing it to some extent. Žižek goes on to say that our identity is actually made up of the masks we wear. So, there's no fixed or authentic self hidden beneath these roles. Instead, we become the roles we play, switching between masks depending on the context. It's fascinating to me to think about how our identities are fluid and how we all adapt our behavior, language, and expressions to fit into societal norms. In a way, I think I sort of brain broke myself researching these things haha.
If you are at all interested in the concept, the video "Guide to Žižek: Don’t Be Yourself" is a pretty good introduction.
Do you have any thoughts about this?
Sounds like a good way to just make yourself feel depressed and guilty if you subscribe to those concepts.
i suppose, but usually when NTs are "masking" in social conditions, they don't seem to feel like fakes and like theyre lying. Masking in neurodivergent people is inherently a different thing from these "masks" you say that all people put on. And rather than believe that we are all wearing a mask around each other, I prefer to believe that we are all our true selves (excluding those who mask) most of the time, even if we follow certain rules or customs to be more socially acceptable. Doing these things doesn't make us "fake". But Autism masking does make you feel fake, it's a chore and it cuts into your wellbeing to keep it up.
There's probably some truth to this idea, but I think it begs the question "who are we when we're not masking?" Human beings tend to like having a sense of something deep that carries through the events of their life, giving them a sense of self, a sense of control, and a narrative about who they are. We have to learn that we aren't who we are when we're masking. And there's also wisdom in not trying super hard to be yourself. My understanding is that our identity is dynamic, and it's always changing, so looking for some constant, unique thing that is true about ourselves can often end up being an elusive and maybe fruitless exercise. I hardly ever know who I am anyway, but I still am me. I think we have an identity that goes deeper than the masks we put on to fit in with society. Learning about who we are deep down is usually helpful, and it gives us a sense of satisfaction, direction, and wisdom.
@@ericfalley Well, the point is more that our very core itself is a mask. One we're mostly unaware of. Who plays us when we're just alone? Is this not a mask we accept as that self? What demasking really should be seen as is being more authentic to that core mask that you see as yourself. Let's see if I can link czcams.com/video/yeRf7Wwy-sU/video.html the video I was referring to.
The difference between how i feel around my autistic friends vs my allistic friends, even those with ADHD, is wild. I occasionally perform interest for an autistic friend if i can tell its important, but usually its entirely natural because (1) i am almoat always really engaged and (2) they recognize and appreciate my natural expressions of interest. I didn't know i was autistic until very recently, but most of my friends are autistic, and most of them were diagnosed late but not as late as me (e.g. in their teens or early 20s)
I scored 144 with 49 compensation, 51 masking and 49 assimilation. I’m not officially diagnosed yet (I have my appointment scheduled at the end of the month), so we’ll see how it turns out!
How'd it go?
YO... thinking people would be nice to me if I was more attractive was a massive thing for me as well! I would see other people dressed up all nicely and just look so confident & get treated well, which made me think that the right combo of clothing was what I needed. I always ended up hating how I felt in the clothing and not wanting to be looked at, and people were no nicer to me. Turns out I'm not only autistic, but trans. WHUPS.
I didn't realize I had an internal script until I started working a customer service job - then i quickly realized that I could get my script mixed up here & there - I was always able to joke it off by saying 'we could do this all day' or some such, but yeah........