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Could The F-22, F-35, Su-57 Or A-4 Penetrate SAM Alley, Hanoi, Vietnam? (WarGames 16) | DCS
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
- 0:00 Overview
3:44 Attempt 1 A-4 LOW
10:41 Attempt 2 A-4 HIGH
24:00 Attempt 3 5th Gen
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Can u do the battle of the earth vs alien from independents day 1
czcams.com/video/3SFdGHuLv8s/video.html
that would be great to see
@@RoA.Nitrox.293 yep hahahahahahhah
@@RoA.Nitrox.293 BROOO MA SEI VIVOOO😭
@@rebegrossi3824 ma sei la rebe?
The nice part about flying the A-4 in this mission: if you lose sight of your flight lead, you have an entire army of helpful assistants pointing at them with tracers.
Hahahaha
Niceee.
Just hope they don't slow down
@@Ilazie Then flight lead is you.
@@HAL_9001 you are flight lead if your the only one left!
I’m impressed with how human like Cortana has become, Windows is really onto something
Not a bad dancer either if you go to the gen 5 part of the video...
Kortana, great model and set-up. Simba dodging multiple SAMs in the F35 was definitely a highlight, then dodging multiple AAA.....
I was beginning to think Simba would cause the North Vietnamese to run out of SAMs. GG all.
it was work but it was fun i thought i needed a magical unicorn to survive, thanks for watching
Damn impressive. Congrats simba
@@simba1113 I'm no expert but weren't you guys flying extremely low for such a mission? I thought 60k would be around the norm fur such missions. Great video though thanks for sharing
The running out of SAMs did happen in the Vietnam War...
But they sure did send up a lot of flying telegraph poles.
Simba was out there fighting for his life
During the second run in the A4, Cap looked like he was evading the Mig by getting low enough to hide in the grass from it.
What about using wild weasel aircraft? They were available during the period.
Having worked on the A-4 in the Marine Corps, we would not load the airplane so heavily for a low-level attack. Using the airplanes strengths of maneuverability and speed.
...but this is the Grim Reapers! Lol
right but why make it easy on our selves hahahaha. we probably were to excited to employ much boom boom and didn't thing about hot to get there first hahaha
@@simba1113 lol, we really ought to put a proper strike together and see what we can really do though
@@KortanaDCS kortana?? From spudknockers videos? Small world. Lol
@@toxickilljoy9037 Yep! I fly with a number of DCS creators, Spud included 🙂
Cap: “ I wonder how they can see us?”
Cap in his Su-57 with huge white contrails billowing out the back
lol! oops
You mean chemtrails right?
@@chnapo1 chemtrails are different, chemtrails is what the plants crave
8:14 that was the best tokyo drift I've ever seen in DCS. It's a shame kortana didn't ride it until the end, it would have been a 10/10
yeah that was a sexy departure from flight wasn't it.
I really appreciate Kortana actually doing the callouts like "mud" and "fox 3"
I know right. And just her sheer amount of knowledge on how every little thing works. I always thought I knew a ton about this kinda stuff both IRL and in game... But she's like scary walking encyclopedia level on every last tiny detail.
In reality, the SU-57 would have been the plane dodging the SAMS constantly, as the RCS is 1 meter to .1 meter (when flying head on). The SU-57 is not a true stealth fighter. The F-35, on the other hand, has an RCS of approximately .0015, from all angles. Not to mention, the IR signature of the SU-57 is HUGE. The engines currently in use are not even the engines designed for it, but rather the engines from the SU-35, destroying ANY chance of being low IR. Nice game, but not REALLY realistic for what we know of the SU-57's true capabilities...
Was going to say the same thing. It's got a larger frontal cross-section than a Typhoon. It's not even really 5th gen.
"turns out the f35 model isn't very good in dcs.".
The cockpit is hilariously wrong in it from other videos.
The mod file for the f-35 had a 5m^2 stealth setting instead of 0.005 or whatever it's supposed to have. As for the su57, well it's a russian game, maybe whoever programed is was a little generous.
@@rcavicchijr makes sense. The Russians were extremely generous to themselves in IL-2. German stuff would light on fire like it was doused in gas, and German pilots would scream like on fire, while British voices would be like pip pip cheerio before bailing out.😅
As a pilot myself that is completely false,Su57 does have 4th gen engines for now but that would be visible to radar only from behind and such older radars would probably have a hard time seeing it,IR thing is crap because every single plane has a huge IR signature and F35 does have it a little bit reduced but theres only so much you can do that is still a fighter jet engine and its extremely hot and can be seen over 50 kilometers with a good IRST system so no the f35 doesnt have 10 times smaller IR signature just a few kilometers advantage
That was an Amazing job by Simba dodging all those Sam's
Thanks i do enjoy the wild weasel mission
Always happy to sacrifice Simba for the good of the mission...
Honestly the AAA were a greater threat than the SA-2 during Vietnam. The primary objective of the SA-2's was to threaten the aircraft and force them down into the AAA net.
if the AAA was a bigger threat than the SA2 then the SA2 could not force aircraft down into the AAA net... because the planes would just prefer to stay high abd be shot at by SA2's
@@appa609 the SA-2 was perceived as the primary threat because it had shot down a U-2 and ended the concept that the bomber would always get through. Tactical jet pilots, many of whom were bomber pilots who had just been re-trained to fly fast jets, did not know how to cope with them. Remember, they had stopped training to dogfight because, missiles.
@@appa609 During Vietnam, something like 60% of all aircraft losses were due to AAA and only 31% to SAM's and with an average of 6 missiles needed to shoot down a single aircraft.
Q for Grim Reapers: as is it's not hard enough with all that AAA, why are you flying the mission at dusk?
@@wilson2455 Night video don't show up well.
Simba definitely put Fat Amy through her paces! Nice flying brother 👌
I would imagine tactically it's a mistake to try to run in with three stealth aircraft in such proximity. With their small RCS you want them separated. Putting them side-by-side would only increase the radar's chances of identifying you as a target?
Would also suggest staying away from contrail altitude.
that was my thought as well, not to mention rear ending the plane in front of you or killing your maneuverability window
F-22 is classified as an air superiority fighter. It's nearly invisible to other aircraft but ground based, bigger radars are able to see them coming from a long ways off.
@@dilligafdude9434 Even the less stealthy F-35 is being used by Israel to troll S300 and S400 in Syria extremely easily lol. The SA-2 would be too easy.
Well, Kortana...I'm going to award you a 9.8 for that crash! ;)
Cap and Kortana: "lets fly high and use our stealth characteristics to protect us"
Simba: NYYYYOOOOOOM
i apparently had the knock off stealth coating applied and it didn't work hahaha
Simba in the F35: god mode activated.
Impressive stuff valued participants!
Kortana is a terrifying woman. Amazing design.
You're not wrong. I am terrified of Damp and Simba. But Kortana is Darth Vadrette in a fighter. I wouldn't throw a crumpled piece of paper at her from 2 km away.
with the voice of an angle lol. you feel like she is singing you a lullaby as your dying. hahahaha
Even I'm a little scared.
@@simba1113 awwwww, guys 🥰😈
Definitely impressive. I've been binge watching these videos, and I'm impressed by their detail in setting up, and the immersion in playing out these scenarios. Looks like lots of fun.
That was awesome editing. Yall are just cruising up high "Simba come up to 30k, they're not tracking us this high"
Simba: Dodging missles for his life
lol
That A4 run was intense. I wanna see more of this :) And Kortana is awesome leading these, so keep her in charge please :)
Screw the stealth, the A4 section was one of the best vids you've released Cap. You could re-do the authentic run with wild weasels? The Shrike was developed in 1965 so nice and authentic (assuming DCS have modelled it!).
I was wondering the same thing and wondered why they weren’t carrying at least or or two shrikes.
Fix the F35 RCS, and re-run it! Please :) This was exciting and ting :)
Kortana is an amazing pilot. She knew how to dodge and fly that plane like a pro in the second run. If it wasn't for the second Mig, she would have splashed her Mig and got back to penetrating the air defenses. I was really impressed.
This video was amazing! Great job Kortana setting up the mission and everyone's flying skills blew me away. SIMBA!
dip, duck, dive, dodge. is my method lol
@@simba1113 if you can dodge a wrench, then you can dodge a ball 😅
Now you know why flight ops over Hanoi were always carefully planned and fully integrated - jammers, SEAD, escort and strike package(s) all in one huge overwhelming assault. With just 3 aircraft incoming every single NVA gunner knew who to shoot, I reckon with 60-80 targets to shoot at, half them shooting back, the defenders would have had a LOT tougher time of it.
Still, a perfect example of the difficulty of penetrating a true IADS - one of your best challenges yet.
I just read the other day, that the Viet Nam era "alpha" strike consisted of up to half of a carrier's complement available combat strength. If you have three carriers at Yankee Station, that could be up to 130-140 aircraft. The article also described that alpha strikes were planned and coordinated with the USAF and contained roughly the same numbers of aircraft. The "goal" was to put several hundred aircraft, of all combat types, over the target area in a short period of time, say 15-30 minutes at most.
32:03 was such a cool shot. we need more F-35 action!
Kortana, "was that Cap who just flew past me? " nope the Ghost of Simba flies again! 🤣 🤔😉
That 2nd run with the A4s looked like a real life Death Star trench run. Like they had to evade all the AA fire at first, then when the MIGs started to chase them, it felt like the AA guns stopped firing. If so, that is very similar to how it was in Star Wars.
Lol, Watching simba dodging all those missiles and AAA was a treat, what a champ! I was at the edge of my seat rooting for em', bless his cotton socks.
it was fun i probably could have done that mission another 5 times that night but we had to move on lol.
Kortana: As long as we stay far enough away we should be fine
*cuts to camera of SAM barreling towards them*
I would love to see how well a full Vietnam era or 4th gen strike package would have done
It will be about the same as what happened to Simba (f35). The mod creator forgot to reduce the RCS for ground to air missile.
@@s87343jim a full strike package would have a minimum of 4 planes flying sead Noone had a single arm
Damn impressive flying!! Simba in the 35 was amazing but watching Cap mimic Kortana's ballet in the A4 was beauty!
The A4 section was a lot of fun. Kortana made a great setup here. Would love to see a realistic night time raid with wild weasel
I'd love to have an excuse to fly this scenario again 🙂
@@KortanaDCS but do you really need an excuse? Do you really?
@@jefferymaslinski772 Lol, nope 😅
"Hey Kortana, nice day for a fly right?"
"Yeah, it's pretty calm today. How are you doing?"
"Oh I'm doing alright, think I might get a cup of tea later, what do you think?"
"Oh yes tea sounds nice. Do you think we should invite Simba?"
"That's a jolly good idea, let's invite Simba. Simba, how are you doing back there?"
Simba: 29:08
🤣 I mean, I had a leisurely flight 😅
Simba jinking those SAMs was amazing!
Yeh that was quite good I'll admit.
Can a modern carrier fleet defeat 400 tramps in wheelie bins
Depends on what's for dinner on the carrier..... Gumbo.???....i think those tramps will become highly motivated.
I was thinking onboard penicillin and ethyl alcohol rations, or the lack thereof.
Not in my experience but fair comment.
Is there a prius nearby to have a soup kitchen in?
I like that Simba's out here fighting for his life and you're like: Just climb to 33k..
Watched a second time, so good! Simba did amazing dodging those missiles in the F35, Kortana did amazing flying the A4 2nd flight in, Cap did damn good following Kortana! All in all a thrill to watch!
First, some very impressive low-level defensive flying guys. Second, one of the funniest things I've heard from the channel:
"You have one in... errr... pursuit, Cortana."
"Pursuit of me?!"
"Err, nope, just went away."
Another exciting day at the office for everyone. Possibly a little too exciting for poor old Simba in his F-35A.
I do wish that you had thrown in an A-4 night run to see if Kortana's hypothesis was legitimate.
I also think setting up the AAA on expert level was a little too much too.
Still it was set up really well.
Thanks for another entertaining flight.
Those SAMs just loving Simba .. he's doing a very good job avoiding them
After avoiding about 50 missiles, Simba: "I've got a launch." LOLOLOL
Yeh I noticed that...
Cortana and Cap having an scenic romantic view, meanwhile simba: HHHHNNNNNNNNNNG pucker factor 10
i guess three was a crowed hahahah
Simba dodged enough missiles to bankrupt a small country.
North Vietnam added visual tracking station to sa-2, sam was command guided from ground radar, visual tracking added ability to manually steer sam at contrail without radar. Game might have included this quirk?
I can't say that I've ever seen an SA-2 do this in DCS, but I'd love to see that functionality come to the game. I do love a good SAM trap for the pilots who fly in my missions 😈
Modern (and indeed some of the better 1960s) jammers would make that tactic a non-starter by interfering with the control signals.
Posted 42 minutes ago, but sale started 5 days ago. You guys are on top of it over there.
nice to have Kortana there, nice voice to hear.
I love how Simba is just getting left behind, like a friend who goes out with a couple. From takeoff, he is the only one using wet thrust and still way behind, then the only one getting attacked by the SAMs :D
awww bless him :)
Oved it. Cinematic. Stealthing through the low lands avoiding missles. Then rocketing into space.
Masterfully edited. I never lost situational awareness and it looked beautiful.
Perfect length cuts, nothing passed too quickly or lingered too long. Very clear shots. Could have been from a TV-show 👍
thx Teddy
I love Cortana's synopsis "We are all going to die!!!!!!!" Nice flying everyone.
Lol, I am rarely accused of being an optimist 😅
@@KortanaDCS At least you don't sugar coat anything. I always tell people you don't like the answer don't ask the question. great flying even if against a stacked deck. look forward to the next video.
Holy Buckets! Simba with the evasion flying! That was soo cool to watch, good camera shots on the entire video!
Legend has it Simba's still dodging SAMs to this day.
agree
29:49 goin from a chill chat to edge-of-seat evasion is hilarious
You don't need to attack SAM city to run them out of missiles, just send Simba! That evading ... *chef's kiss*.
I have to say, I wouldn't be adverse to seeing this tried again with a few more humans and maybe a yellow brick road? but as is would already be awesome. There's a universe where this could be used in the funday rotation too. Similar to the death run/valley one's, but instead of breaking up into teams 1st round everyone goes and its a simple KO system to determine the last pilot standing. Or if there is a quick way to "turn on" segments of the course you split into team as normal and you increase the run distance in segments over X amount of rounds? Doing a death run against an IADS setup could be a lot of fun ... could also be shit, I don't know but it is certainly *an* "idea" xD
In Vietnam times they had a version of a cluster bomb that fired little bomblets called pods they may come in handy here along with some harm missiles and wild weasels 🙂
Oh my, that Cap vs MiG dogfight was intense and that luck!
He put bullets above and below the wings, but didn't hit it, another great Cap moment to add to the board with his aileronless Spitfire :D
That was a great sim. The threat of the SAM and AAA net in NV was so great our actions were limited up there throughout the war. Note Saddam Huessein modeled the air defenses of Baghdad around what NVA did in Hanoi which is why in 91 it was a cruise missile strikes along with the stealths attacking Baghdad. I wondered if you did a 91 Baghdad strike on opening night of Desert Storm on SAM City if you get the same result we did in 91.
32:24 - And here I was thinking hell, if the SAM radars can see you anyway, just load up an F-15E and get it done. :P
Simba in the F35 reminds me of that meme about Blade calling the rest of the Avengers and asking for some help with all the goddamn vampires. Cap and Cortana: :shrugs:
Cool fact about the skyhawk. It could carry more than its own weight in ordinance and still fly.
The NV air defenses were some of the best in the world, at that time. They got most of their stuff from the Soviets, and it was a great proving ground. However, the F-111A made absolute mincemeat of those defenses. They went in a night, low level (500' TFR) and without filing flight plans (Vietcong had spies in the ops sqds). They would make it in into the target area, and drop their bombs before the air raid sirens would even sound. Best sortie # vs aircraft losses during the war of any aircraft.
@mandellorian you’re absolutely right on the facts about the A7D - always difficult to compare stats though I’m sure A7D’s did CSAR and CAS aswell as opposed purely strike missions? - but very interesting
@mandellorian I stand corrected. Thanks for the update.
@mandellorian Actually, from doing a bit of digging, I believe the sorties flown was for all A-7's during the war. The D model was only there for about 11 months, and they only had 2 squadrons. That's about 40 sorties every single day, which is realistically unsustainable.
CAP and Cortana on a date with poor Simba in the back dodging SAMs like crazy. lmao. great video.
lol
Simba's incorrect configuration setting tipped off the defenders that an attack was coming. Please re-run with correct stealth config for F-35.
yup my fault. i will apply the right amount of stealth paint next time and not use the cheap crap lol
@@simba1113 When I tried the VSN F-35, it didn't seem to simulate a reduced RCS at all...has that changed?
@@simba1113 I didn't mean to point fingers. 'hope no offense taken. :-)
@@hotironaircraftshop Yup I am totally offended and I will petition the UN to write you a strongly worded condemnation letter before threatening you wit an over whelming amount of sanctions for the waste water you are exporting from your master bathroom. lololololol. god not I am not offended. this is social media. I just joke and troll my self as to not take it too serious. cheers thanks for watching and commenting
So amazing to watch! Love watching the A-4!!!! The flying and dodging was excellent
I kinda think triple A should be set to average, for lots of fireworks but not making it unrealistically unfair for human attackers-- are all triple A gunners experts in real life? I'm not sure. Anyways more of this map please with other jets! :D
A-4 sweet machine! Alan Shepards ride.
The famous Alan Shepard who gave us the famous ' Shepards prayer'
One of the best vids of you guys… action packed!!
Great set work Kortana!! This was fantastic all around. What a great movie and great reenactment. Definitely should be thought provoking to real fifth gen pilots!
🙂
A side comment - the only way to jink when you are on the deck is vertically. It seemed, during the second run, that Kortana had that figured out when she was porpoising. Cap was just along for the ride and even he stayed alive much longer.
Cap and Kortana just cruising and chatting Simba diving and knotching for his life and the Sams just keep coming!!
Is it just me or can you just sit and listen to Cortana read a book. She just has like the perfect Female Voice. I don't know what she looks like or even care, I just love her Voice.
She sounds like a professional radio broadcaster.
Shall we get her to record Janes Fighter Aircraft for us to listen to??
@@grimreapers I would listen
@@Pimps-R-us Yep. 😊
Hey, that’s really cool. But one minor point though, we didn’t have the SA-3 Goa / S-125 Pechora until after the Vietnam War. Very cool, thank you.
The fact that the F-35 program is the most most expensive and sophisticated and is still locked on the most despite the raptor and felon flying together
Would not happen in real life. This game has given the F-35 an RCS greater than the SU-57. In reality, the SU-57 has an RCS of 1 meter (from all angles except head on) to .1 meter (head on). The F-35, on the other hand, has an RCS of .0015 meters from all angles. Add to that the lower IR signature of the F-35 compared to the not even close to low IR signature of the SU-57. The real life scenario would play out much different with the SU-57 being lit up constantly.
Simba absolutely Hakuna Matata'ing those notches!
lol
Hats up for Simba! :-) Great flying mate.
"little baby aircraft, compared to me. Bless your cotton socks..." Thanks cap... I giggled... 35yo man just giggled.
Oh man, Flight of the Intruder was one of my favorites growing up.
That 1st attempt was incredibly brutal...great video!!!
Can you fly the YF-12A/Blackbird over it?
I guess you could, but remember, the Blackbird was not really a fighter bomber, but more of a stealth recon plane, and it workd best at very high altitudes.
You could litteralyl fly over the top, but could not bomb target.
That sort of thing was done in real life with A-12s as part of Operation Black Shield. They weren't completely safe though - in 1967 an A-12 was hit by fragments from an SA-2 exploding nearby so there was always some possibility of being shot down, even if it was unlikely.
The A4 makes a really cool wind fluttering/beating noise.
Simba! Great flying a brick with the RCS of an F-15 and dodging all those SAMs still!
Kortana says attack at night. US said that and for day time raids to jam the skies full friendly aircraft with a decent assortment of jamming of radar.
Su-57: "So what do you have planned later today? I was thinking of going bike riding."
F-22: "I don't know. I have some errands I need to run, but I'm feeling lazy."
F-35: **Jinking and juking for its life**
Flight of the Intruder" is indeed the best movie ever! "They will never expect us to come round again!" Well done GR's!
That sky when going over the water... absolutely stunning...
"We have to put our stealth in or no one watches..." And I clicked on the video SOLELY because of the A-4.
You Sir are a rare and sexy beast.
Simba fighting for his life meanwhile cap and cor chilling at 30k
Simba in 5th gen: I'm fighting for my fucking life man
Nice work all around. Kortana with the set up. Cap with the camera work and commentary and Simba with getting shot at.
lol
Another interesting scenario you’ve concocted Grim. I spose the only comment I would make is sims don’t handle electronic warfare particularly well, they have other fish to fry, the in cockpit experience. And it’s not like any Air Force is going to fork over the details of its electronic warfare capability to a sim maker. Regardless I applaud your out of the box thinking with your scenarios
Poor A-4's.........knackered for speed and turning with all those rocket pods ;)
Dang, Cortana! You're as cool under fire as a mountain lake. Well done!
Hope Cortana had a fantastic holiday. She's the woman.
I had a friend who flew A-4's in Nam. He said they would crank the trim all the way over so they would be side slipping. The manual gunners ended up firing ever thing off the nose, which is not where the plane was going.
The SAM's could be fired visually without painting a target.
Modern ECM would easily jam the guidance signals.
@@trolleriffic Very true but in the 1960's , this was an NVA technique. If you remember the movie Bat-21, that's how they shot down the EB-66C. They would fire visually then when the SA-2 was close enough, go to active tracking/targeting. This way the EW aircraft wouldn't have enough time to defeat and/or avoid.
Yup, good old optronic sight and guidance system.
Thats how they downed the f117 in Serbia they were able to track and isolate its pattern and fire with out a lock
@@dylanjackson5085 having the bomb bay doors open helped a bunch as well. Ruined its radar signature.
Simba is out here living his best life dogging every damn thing. HAHA!
Great flying by Simba in the A-4.
F-35s have a smaller RCS now (Block 4) than an F-22 in latest phase and so much for DCS and their mod for F-35. Every simulation you have run with F-35 is incorrect. The Israelis have successfully eluded S-300 Syrian systems with Adir. Finland tested Russian radars with F-35 and decided to buy F-35s rather than Gripens are Typhoons. These mod failures should have been obvious to you before now. Felon does not have a smaller RCS than F-22 what does that tell you?
You know wiki data isn't accurate on the fifth generation aircraft and it doesn't matter because it's a game
Agreed. Fun play, but only play. 'Stealth' is a total of system design and tactics/employment techniques, and I've yet to see one of these GR vids that actually try to simulate how VLO aircraft are employed. Using the F-35 at it was used here, was the equivalent of taking what you thought was a scalpel and using it like an axe, only to find out afterward the sim had really given you a plastic spork. I have no idea if the F-35 model even allows the operator to manage his signature (like a real one). Until stealth operational techniques are factored in/employed, these excursions remain fun, and completely uninformative.
I don't think anything rcs related has changed for block 4. It's probably just that they've measured the rcs better now.
DCS is NOT accurate when it comes to mods, especially of classified aircraft.
@@jimmyrecard6021 I'm surprised people don't realize this
I'd love to see you guys do Flight of the Intruder, but with F-35'S, do every mission for the movie, then do designed Hanoi flight for SAM City & some bombing / missile runs at some air bases. It'd be one helluva series!
Fun fact on the A-4, the leading edge slats operate automatically from the force of the air. Slow down, they drop, speed up they pull up. You can push these up if you visit the USS Midway Museum in San Diego.
One of the most long-lived airfoil mod innovations. Invented in 1918 by a guy named Gustav Lachman in 1918 and independently by Handley-Page a year later. They were commonly known as 'Handley-Page slots' or 'slats' early on. Most first-famously used on the ME-109 IMHO