Torches: outdoor use
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- čas přidán 31. 01. 2013
- About the drawbacks of using torches outdoors. In the films, torches are ubiquitous. In reality, less so.
One very cold and dark night, I shot this, and enough for another couple of videos. When I am not presenting to a camera at night, and so don't have to worry about lighting my face, I do not have to keep adjusting my hood.
www.LloydianAspects.co.uk
This explains why in stealth sections of videogames, the guards can only see you if you stand directly in the torchlight o.0
Styx: Master of Shadows is a good example.
Skyrim is not, because when your stealth skill is high enough you can stand quite literally directly in front of someone and they can't notice you until they directly trip over you.
Dante Torn My Skyrim game broke to where as soon as I crouch, I'm instantly detected by every enemy in the area.
😂💀
Hi Lloyd, in case you don't already know, the main reason 'peasants' or at least townspeople and city folk carried torches in medieval England was because it was illegal not to after curfew (ie. after dark). If you were caught walking around town without a torch by the aldermen after curfew then you could be deemed a trouble maker and fined or imprisoned.
reminds me of kingdom come deliverance haha. also nice seeing you here
That certainly sounds very plausible.
I'm beginning to feel quite hungry
Torches were used in sieges to burn down iron gates.
- Creative Assembly
haha brilliant!
Well, use enough torches and the gates will surely melt. ;-)
Torches can't melt steel gates.
@@d4n4nable iron gates*
and iron windmills - From Software
For the night is dark, and full of torches
And let's not forget lamps
You use torches in the daytime to avoid night blindness... obviously
+Cabbage Head of course! how did I not realize before xD lol
+SquaredbyX That's why you're in charge, boss.
I am rather embarrassed that I hadn't realised this sooner. I had been holding it against my forehead then crossing my eyes to maximise the retina's exposure to light; how foolish....
As a Scoutmaster, I would tell the new boys that if they wanted to see at night, turn off the flashlight Mom had given them. Rarely believed me till they noticed the older Scouts had no flashlights. Then when we played night hide-n-seek, they learned. (Yes, you can see even in starlight.)
Barry Smith and then they noticed the older scouts did have flashlights but only used them when looking for something their buddy wanted from a pack inside the tent or when telling scary stories in the tent when it rained too much for a ring around the camp fire :)
Funnily enough, the how of using artificial light is also the easiest way to spot inexperienced soldiers that's not yet had any night raid defence exercises in their field training.
Or let 'em parents buy them military surplus flashlights, they got a red filter. Red light doesn't fuck up your nightvision, with red light, you don't have a cooldown to see in the dark again with bare eyes again.
OR just turn off your torches...as Barry said...;-) Because most people will have an easier time adjusting their eyes to the semi-darkness which most nights outside are than buying a thermal camera...;-) Our eyes are pretty amazing instruments, just give them a chance to do their job.
Obviously this is true... I was just pointing out that a thermal camera is very high-tech, and not many people will have one. Now eyes, on the other hand...;-)
You sound like a fucking pervert.
"Torches and pitchforks, those are the two ingredients you need for a peasant rampage. Oh, three. You need peasants." Reminded me of the Spanish Inquisition
+PaltryPete I didn't expect that.
+Chris Forsyth
NO ONE expects t-h-e Spanish IN-qui-siTION !
Nobody expects that.
Our two main weapons are fear, surprise, and a supreme devotion to the pope; three weapons!
Don't forget ruthless efficiency.
Well, they are useful if you're in the dark woods looking for someone who got lost and wants to be found - they can see and move towards the torches.
Good point, torches make it very easy for people to locate each other. Sometimes that is a useful thing.
Wouldnt makeing a lot of noice do the same?
Yelling or useing a horn could work better.
+qwerty qwerty We are visually oriented creatures, a bobbing light at night is a much better reference point than a voice coming from the shade somewhere over there.
+qwerty qwerty True but it wouldn't be as obvious where the noise is coming from.
Robin Powell Well the surrounding trees and rocks might break the sound a bit...
It could be the best to try both.
That's why search lights, flashligths, lanterns and all that sort is not 360 degrees. It's to light the target without blinding your eyes.
Many historical lanterns were essentially three walls with an opening in the front.
Gabdube and the opening in the front could often be regulated with a sliding lid, sometimes with one or more slits in it.
So that is why everyone is so blind in movies. Actually makes sense.
Yes. Get used to shutting one eye when using a torch to read a map at night etc. Trouble is, an eye night-blinds very quickly. Having stereo vision by day is something I appreciate however. I once wore an eyepatch to a fancy dress party and I was amazed at how much worse my vision was in all ways - dimmer, flatter, worse at tracking movement, couldn't see to my right etc.
I noticed this when we went to explore some catacombs while teenagers. I ended up holding it above my head so it would be out of my sight.
Nice torch wave transition btw.
Was looking for a comment that mentioned that transition.
Yeah same here.
Cool transition
Matt Colville sent me here. Really cool video! I plan on showing it to my D&D group
i'm so happy I found this channel.
torches, check. Pitch forks, check. Alright we're ready... shit, the peasants!
fringis1 Oh, no Robert not again. You keep forgeting the peasants!
fringis1 not to mention the shit on the peasants ;)
You can see colour and precision very well if something is lit, but when there is no light your eyes suck at colour and precision, however they are far better at seeing in the dark.
well... not torches but Lanterns ... My Grandfather told me that his Grandfather told him that when you looking for someone in the woods in the dark... you use 2 people ... one holding the lantern and another one standing out front near the edge of where the light ends
Have You ever made a boring, dull video??? Mate, You just save me from my depression this year. Thanks a lot!
I've done some "larping" a few years back, and I was an assassin. I can say a few things about being all creepy crawly in a forest with no source of light:
It depends on stuff. If it's winter, everything is white, and you see perfectly all through the night without any source of light, provided your eyes are used to the dark. Otherwise, sometimes you will see everything quite well (although in shades of grey), and navigating a forest isn't difficult (although I got lost twice for several hours at a time). However sometimes (clouds, no moon, who knows) all you see is absolute darkness... and absolute grayness slightly upwards. So you just follow the trail of gray above because you know that's probably not a tree, so you're probably following some track. I would advise against using a "new shortcut you've never seen" in the middle of the night, whatever the lighting is... One time I found my way following battle-shouts... the other time the sun rose before I could find my tent.
So the moral of this story is: remember the peasants
Actually, the moral of the story is to remember to have at least one party member with infravision.
Or a spell caster with a light cantrip, maybe an alchemist that makes sun rods.. my human socerer would just carry a pocket full of pebbles and a sling. Light a stone, sling it 30-50 feet, when we get to it, pick it up and sling it again lol
+Karl-Johan Embretsen
Well the peasants are revolting !
I just got an image of a dude with sun rods hurling them about with an atlatl at night.
It's funny when you actually experiment with these things you begin to realize how impractical they can be. To avoid being blinded I make my torches about four feet tall to keep the light above my head makes it a lot easier to see.
+DaneStolthed Or just use a lamp...
+cman2223 Truth. Although I argue that even in their specializations, some people are relatively incompetent ; )
I made the patterns myself. They were all very simple. The jerkin was an old goatskin rug. The main tunic was a blanket from a charity shop.
Torches are a good way to deal with animals. Many carnivores are nocturnal, none of them like fire.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't lanterns already exist in the medieval period and even long before that? Seems like a far better alternative to a torch really.
He did a follow up video about torch alternatives that said about as much. Apparently they would use primarily tallow candles for light, with lanterns really just being candles in a box. I gather from all this torches were mostly for certain fiery acts of war and maybe signaling.
GameNub Quin Maybe warmth as well, if it's cold but you can't stop to make a fire why not bring the fire with you right?
***** I didn't think of that but it might make sense for winter, although since he said they're a bit expensive I don't know how common that'd be. I mean we don't use torches in winter travel, and winter clothing hasn't really changed much.
Torches are cheap
@@jonathanwells223 Torches cost money, as opposed to a cloak (something he's made a video on) which doesn't cost anything, given you already have one
I think this series about torches deserves more views!
I must certainly applaud the ingenious method of setting thatch alight that you have mentioned.
In the old days a torch or lantern would let you walk home after dark without being chased by the Watch or the Customs Men. Many ordinances from late Medieval and Renaissance times of cities required that a person out after dark had to carry a light or have a light carried by an accompanying person. Especially if they were armed! A light-bearing person was not a thief or a smuggler or some other person undoubtedly sneaking about to no good purpose.
The other good thing about having a torch or other light source is that it gives warning of changing ground conditions. If you have a torch, Lindy old chap, you will not walk into a ditch, stumble over a stone, or step into a foot-drenching puddle.
Half of the education in Lindy's videos is reading the comment section :')
Observations from the Bunker or on a venomous night tiger snake...as my brother found out the bloody inconvenient way.
Candle or lamp would do you well enough
Observations from the Bunker this is why you use a lantern, or candle. Not a torch.
Imho, one of the big purposes of torches in night travel (or the only?) would be to say to Humans and other animals: "Here we are! See how many and grand and fearless we are! We have no need to hide from you. Really, best skulk back into your hole, you don't want to mess with us." In battle, the same, on a grander scale, with the added and very real threat those torches represent. They would be for psychological purposes as much or more than anything. Now in TV/Film, their primary purpose would be often mistaken for 'ambiance', but really they are just used so that there's enough light for the camera to get a decent image, because doing it with electric lights out of frame feels even *more* fake and cheezy. See Errol Flynn's Robin Hood for a good example (love the Film, cheezy as it is).
+Ernest Ruger So a big flaming stick isn't going to scare away animals? I think a torch would be great for travelling at night on the countryside, you scare away predators and it feels protective, especially if there are like 5 of you and two people have a torch,.
Did you not read my post before repeating one of my own points as though it contradicted me? Just sayin', I said that.
This is the most intelligent and articulated medieval peasant rampager I've ever seen
Great history lesson, and also an excellent demonstration of how light is all too often used incorrectly at night in our modern world.
I have practical experience with this from walking around the house at night with a candlestick when the power is out. You can't help but be dazzled by the flickering flame. It's quite irresistible.
A book I read not to long ago had a character hunting down a group of thieves. The search party carried a lantern with the shutter completely closed and only opened it for a fraction of a second for just a glimpse of the thieves' camp. The thieves were night-blinded from looking into their camp fire.
I love these videos. They're always good for helping me add a little touch of realism when I'm writing fiction or roleplaying (same thing really I supppose) or what not. Being as how I've never actually carried a torch around other than the flashlight variety, it's educational.
look. if you want someone to live through a video you cant start with a gem like the peasant rampage. i almost died from laughter.
An excellent point Lloyd. The night-blindness issue had never even occurred to me.
Laughing watching a historical explanation...that’s a first...it’s impressive how you can explain so well and be so funny at the same time, great videos!
oddly, modern tactical mantra is to use a very bright light in your hand to aim ones weapon at an adversary. The light ( it is said) so blinds and disorients the adversary as to stupefy them. I am not prepared to test this wisdom at this time.
Love your vids.
Thx
R
The torch transition was beautiful.
Well modern people have a very different reference point than mediaval people. We grew up with flashlights. If you give a torch to a modern person, he would try use it like a flashlight. At least at first until hw figured out a better way.
British and Southern Irish people grew up with torches, as that is what we call flashlights over here. #Oldschool
@@Norvik_-ug3ge Heh indeed.
TL:DR instead of a torch, look 20 degrees off center.
The photoreceptors of the eye are rods and cones.
Relatively higher amounts of light are needed to stimulate cones which sense fine detail, they are concentrated in the center of your field of vision. Smaller amounts of light can stimulate rods while not cones which concentrate at 20 degrees each side in your field of vision. Because more rod cells are connected to one interneuron (whereas cones are 1:1 for cone>interneuron.) less light is needed to stimulate vision detected by the rods (again strongest concentration 20 degrees.). You will not be able to see fine detail (because cones have less neural convergence; each cone is responsible by itself for detecting more detail than a rod is; for instance try reading this paragraph 30 or so degrees of center, it will seem to blend together because the general blend that you will see is what rods are capable of detecting.) but you will be able to use night vision.
TL:DR instead of a torch, look 20 degrees off center.
pitchforks and torches. Best opening statement i've seen from any of your videos haha
This actually makes the idea of a medieval spy so much cooler. The spy makes away in the night. It’s a game of cat and mouse where neither has the slightest idea where the other is. You’ll have to be the best of the best to escape the guards, without making a sound. Lucky for you, it’s now too dark to see anything, so they have to call off the search.
it's amazingly reassuring thou :) I've been out lost at night and we didn't care how bad the torch was it was light and warm.
Unfortunately, sound is usually a problem. I don't intend to shoot at 2 a.m. often.
I'm happy to have found you! I look forward to watching many of your videos :)
You may. I am waiting for the weather to warm up a bit first.
As you'll discover in the next video on this topic, I am using modern paraffin.
interesting to note that i discovered what you said while playing Skyrim,
the engine was good enough to have that light adjustment facter, as someone whose entire strategy consisted of skulking about and catching people unaware, either icking their pockets or picking them off with a well placed stab, or arrow.
torches are horrible for staying hidden, and I noticed, when dragons or fire magic people found me and used their magic, it was, for a moment, VERY hard to see because my eyes adjusted
hahhahhaha just absolutely love those taglines at the end of your videos. also, awesome and inspiring videos as always!
Fire arrows existed. I have one. They were not as they are depicted in movies, though.
The most dramatically-lit video so far. Nice!
Lindy, best tip on ancient night-vision - wear an eyepatch during the day, take it off at night. Presto: the previously patched eye is now hyper-sensitive to light, allowing you to see in a sort of grey-scale, provided there's any residual light at all (if truly pitch black, you can't see jack) The longer you wore the patch, the clearer the night vision. Good one when camping, protect one eye from being night-blinded from staring at the campfire.
I've noted the same issue with candles, campfires and street lights - you don't want any of those in front of you at night time - so I always chuckle when the actors in movies wave their torches in front of their faces to see.
I have had to find my way by candlelight in the past and holding it above and behind me but slightly off to the side (so I wasn't stepping into my own shadow) was the only way I was able to do so.
Yes. It was warm.
Hopefully information like this will raise the bar for movies
Lloyd, yer a flippin riot!!
That's wha I love aboot ya!!
I see your point. It could work if you were alone and very disciplined, and the flames were not too large.
Pretty similar, I suppose. You just have to make sure that it never gets in your field of vision as you look around, so if it is directly above you, remember to move your hand if you're going to glance upwards.
Find out in the next torches vid (one of possibly as many as four).
For setting fire to siege works, torches; for lighting the table you are sitting outside next to on a fine evening, lanterns.
This video is now mandatory viewing for the players in my D&D game....
Great. Um... which one?
Torches will quite nicely night-blind a camera, too. O_o
Thanks for this video !! Helped alot as reference!
But aren't flashlights in England electric torches?
The best trick for "night vision" is to look directly above or below the thing you want to actually observe. It's due to the way the rods and cone cells are displaced throughout the back of the eye. Cones are good for detail and colour, but they rest in the fovea - the focal point. Rods are better for light and dark, but rest around the fovea, outside of the focal point. I also heard that the eyepatch trick is only of limited effect because pupils adjust in tandem.
Let's face it, we all appreciate it. It just feels good picking apart movies from time to time.
In Jesmond Dene.
Loved the opening for this video, you should do more like it.
I like the style of the video
A bit related to this, I think, was a talk I heard on NPR a couple months ago about the super bright lights used to illuminate the outsides of many large buildings at night. The idea of course being that illuminating the outside so brightly will prevent any crime or suspicious activity. Apparently there's no evidence showing that such bright lighting helps, because it just white-washes everything. Additionally, they can be huge eyesores and problems for nearby residents who'd like to actually get some sleep. I'll see if I can find a link to to the bit, and post it.
I lol'd. You're a gem.
i trained myself to do a similar thing when walking at night.. if you see a car approaching shut one eye until it passes, then you won't loose all of your nightvision as the thing drives up and past you. My dad instilled in me a similar thing while driving... from a young age in a car he would say to not look directly at a light as it enters your field of view as most human beings seem to do this instinctively... it helps a bit.
In Britain it is illegal to carry a knife unless it has a short non-locking folding blade. These days I often carry a Leatherman pair of pliers.
This video was amazing. I felt that the "like" button just didn't do it justice, and had to type it in. Thanks for this!
Nice opening! For a few seconds I thought a Shakespeare's Chorus was about to recite a play!!
Torches were commonly used a lights for night time Mardi Gras Parade... some Krews still to this day have several ceremonial groups of torch bearers in their parades .. the torches have panels to prevent night blinding those carrying the torch, and hot bits falling down
Peasant Rampage...such a great name for a band.
I discover this while camping last year. In Dungeons and Dragons, torch light illuminates a 30 foot area, but in real life, I could barley see 5 feet, and I could see better after putting the torch out, and waiting about 30 seconds.
awesome vid!
I can only speak as an American and as a Southerner, but carrying a pocket knife is something we do from a young age as they can come in quite handy at times.
I work on a ship and we don't use exterior lights at night for exactly that reason. There'll be navigation lights on the mast and hull so other ships can see us but nothing on deck, otherwise they'll just blind the lookout. We keep the lights off on the bridge and dim the screens on all equipment to just barely-visible levels. Even on the darkest nights, you can see well enough to walk around without running into shit if you give your eyes time to adjust.
I try to get that across to people I go camping with: 9 times out of 10, you don't need any flashlight to safely walk around. If you absolutely must use one, use a small red light (red doesn't ruin your night vision) and hold your hand over the top so it only lights up the area right in front of your feet. Nothing pisses me off more than finally getting acclimated to the dark and having someone shine a bright-ass light in my face.
Best point yet! Or at least, video of a point...
What would be really interesting is a short introduction into how a period correct torch is constructed - and how long it will burn.
True, they get far more views.
My first expectation of this intro was "o boy, another Black adder video!" I genuinely expected to hear the theme song at any moment there!
Great demonstration I was night blinded.
"Daddy? Who is that strange man waving a torch around and talking to himself?"
"... A here, son. A hero."
I hope it will be on soon ;)
There are very few animals that would attack a man, but perhaps if you were on your own there might be some danger. In a fantasy setting, a monster that is scared off by a torch isn't much of a monster. Fair point, even so.
Usually fatty animal oils are used, but kerosene, turpentine, and pine sap all work nicely, also if you have a little more patience to light even vegetable oil suites well(smells good too^^)
And any cloth of natural plant materials will work excellently, but if you really need a long lasting wrap I would suggest Kevlar.
Matt Colville sent me. I'm glad he did!
But the presenter in shot was a real person, and was reporting what his eyes saw (which was roughly what the camera saw)..
I don't know what movies you're used to watching, but usually in movies they hold them off to the side or above their head. Not high in the air behind themselves, but I don't recall seeing any movies specifically where they hold them out right in front of themselves. I can recall some video games doing that though.
How to make a torch fast and easy: One arm length wooden stick, preferably not dead. 1 wrap of cloth. Some tar. Drench the cloth in the tar(carefully to not get the tar on your clothes.) then wrap the cloth around the point of your stick. Let the tar drip back into the bowl/jar of tar and leave it like that until it it is dry. That torch will burn quite bright for 20 minutes. :) (My homemade version, might not be the best but it is a torch, not a complicated piece of machinery.) :P
Would love to know how to make real torch. Great video, please upload more.
thanks for the video.
That made my day. Thanks. :,)
I found this out too when I was camping in the woods with my paraffin lamp at night, so I attached it to a pole and leaned it over my shoulder and guessed that was the way for it to be used. By the way , by what you said about a moonless night I'm guessing you're not from the city. Where I live the cloudy nights are the lightest because the light of the city is projected onto the clouds and reflected right back. It keeps me up at night, I hate it.
damn this video quality takes me back
Heard about that, never tried it myself but makes sense to me. :)