Hoplite swords
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Two points about the swords hoplites used: 1. Of course they varied, but they were generally not small things; 2. The way they are depicted as suspended is unlikely to be accurate, and I have a couple of tentative theories about how they might have been drawn (to be honest, the second one doesn't convince even me).
www.LloydianAspects.co.uk
I've been thinking about this. Maybe the rope baldric is like a Roman Legionnaire's plume. All soldiers had a plume, but only Centurions would wear theirs into battle, the regular soldiers would don theirs when marching in a parade. It's entirely possible that the vase makers and the painters had only ever seen parading soldiers, and so they would only know the dress uniform.
Well, considering that soldiers were mostly levys, as in, not professionals, a vase maker would probably have someone in their family be a hoplite at one point, or at least a skirmisher or camp follower, if not themselves. If im not incorrect, a vase maker and painters were not really poor, like a day-labourer or slave, so they may have seen some army action, if not being a hoplite themselves.
Today I learned what a baldrick is. I already knew who a baldrick is, but now I also know _what_ it is.
Elizabeta Macovei Just a bald guy called Rick
I've a Cunning plan melard
“Oh SHUTUP baldrick!”
“Yes sir”
I only know one Baldrick, and he’s rather stupid
Pawn stars
This video is over five years old right now and lindy doesn't seems to have aged at all. That proofs it: he is a wizard.
He's not a wizard, he's clearly some sort of vampire...
Wy Vern Hmmmm
Mistah Susan Of course. How else would he know how medieval woods looked like.
6 now and it's still true.
Bit rude commenting on his private life like that 😕
I used to be a hoplite like you. Then I took a scabbard to the knee.
no ... no no no
YES ... YES YES YES
+SkyrimHod Well, after countless hours of Skyrim I never thought that the joke was funny - never. But this, hysterical...
+SkyrimHod Not bad... the sentence fits perfectly with the video.
+Ulfric Ruthgardsson I would say that the whole sentence was the only good thing about this video.
Scabbards have been oiled for ages. The ones made from wood only lightly to prevent the scabbard swelleing. Also the blades have been oiled for ages to keep them safe from rust and from too much friction.
In retrospect it's ridiculously weird how the early seasons of Hercules the Legendary Journeys actually got the length and overall dimensions of the xiphos perfectly accurate where dozens if not hundreds of movies got it so horribly wrong.
I love how casually he smacks himself in the face :D
ConmanGamez Lindy knows no fear! Lindy knows no pain!
enjoythestruggle
Of course. He's British.
No seriously. He got kicked by a horse once and shrugged it off with formal speech
Perhaps they drew their sword like the Romans, i.e. down, not up. Grab the handle, push down, end of scabbard rises behind the body and blade begins to exit the scabbard through gravity and main force. The bar at the end of the scabbard might then prevent the scabbard from following the blade forward as the draw is completed by the shield arm being pushed against the body and the bar catching on shield, armour and arm? In a close formation like a Phalanx the down and forward movement would also reduce the possibility of the hoplites getting tied up sword arm to neighbours shield that the upward drawing motion might cause.
Makes sense
I also see a third possibility: the vase painters were not an authority on soldier /warrior wares and their use. They could've go to get some reference and seen the warriors lazing around, (or even in formation) but with their sword sheathed on that shoulder strap arrangement better suited for walking and /or just for commodity's sake. Big battles were not a _sudden_ event, marching orders had to issued and battlefields approached in a more or less orderly way from a distant camp... I can see some logic in soldiers having their swords at ready then, but wearing them in a "relaxed" shoulder-hanging way outside of immediate need.
René Jiménez Good points. It's very similar to how modern soldiers only really concern themselves about being able to quickly ready a sidearm when they are expecting a firefight (swords were mostly sidearms, so quickly getting them deployed was a concern). You don't need to worry about how fast you can draw your sword while at the barracks, since in the event of an attack, scouts and sentries will warn you well in advance.
René Jiménez or the vase painters where trying to sale their product and that's the type of painting that sold well. so they made it stylized that way for money, because remember these vase painters where artist who had to sale their art work to earn a living. btw in most city-states the soldiers where the citizens ie that artist could and likely did serve in the military during fighting seasons generally in the summer, as was the civic duty of all male citizens of any city-state. even women at the time knew how armor and weapons of the military worked. So those vases are likely painted that way for aesthetics and not to be taken as literal accounts of battles in ancient Greece.
+Shrapnel82 Because speed is and was such a factor there is an outrageus variety of different kind of speed holsters and in late 18th century when weapon holsters were made from leather, they were oiled from inside. Like sword scabbards have been oiled for ages. The type hoplites used only little to prevent them swelling because they were made from wood. Seriously, that guy just presented his "points" with LARP sword.
sanakassara Actually at the time Scabbards weren't always wooden there where leather or more accurately rawhide scabbards at the time as well. The wooden scabbards were usually covered with fabric or leather (rawhide). also usually bore metal fittings for added protection and carrying ease. Many scabbards like the ones the Greeks and Romans used were small and light. They were designed for holding the sword rather than protecting it. All-metal scabbards were popular items for a display of wealth among elites in the European Iron Age, and often intricately decorated. Little is known about the scabbards of the early Iron Age, due to their wooden construction. However during the Middle and late Iron Ages, the scabbard became important especially as a vehicle for decorative elaboration. After 200 BC fully decorated scabbards became rare. number of ancient scabbards have been recovered from weapons sacrifices, a few of which had a lining of fur on the inside. It is commonly believed that the fur was probably kept oily, keeping the blade free from rust and that the fur would also allow a smoother, quicker draw.
So there were wooden scabbards, all leather (rawhide) scabbards & all metal scabbards in ancient times depending on the culture & the materials they had available. Just some information on the subject.
+John2r1 Scabbards used by hoplites during the Hellenistic period were made from wood. If ever made, metal scabbards would have been only for display, because they would weigh too much to carry on your shoulder with the xiphos from a single thin leather strip and they were very expensive. Fully armored hoplite would have carried about 20 kg (44 lbs) of equipment.
Do you think that during the bronze age metal grew on trees? Rarely xiphos may have been casted from iron (but I don't think that it's accurate to say so, since ancient Sparta some 400-371 B.C. lied in Greece during bronze age which coexisted with the very early period of iron age - 500 B.C.). And have you ever handled something made from solid bronze or even more from iron?
It would have been insane to use even a large quantity of the mined metal to make whole scabbards because the material was needed to make the means to defend yourself or to conquer or to make tools to cultivate the land and to cut down trees for rawmaterials.
Besides, quality scabbards had a lock to keep the crossguard and hilt in place. Blade was relatively loose inside the scabbard. It was made from too different wooden pieces, carved only in the shape of the sword, not to grip the blade tightly and wrapped inside a leather. Think about wooden kitchen knife blocks and how loose they become after a while. Same advantage with wooden scabbard.
Since it seems to be exceedingly hard to find anything about scabbards of that age on the net, here is a link from a sheet-gold decoration used in a scabbard from Hellenistic period.
www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/253056
the bar could be to rest the shield on while in transit. that way the shield arm could rest some of the weight on the shoulder strap and be in better shape if a fight broke out. just an idea though
+Nick Peebles I actually kind like this explanation.
But by that it would make more sense if the things sticking out were on the flat side of the scabbard, not the front or back
thats a good point. perhaps the scabbard was intended to be work on the side which makes the things sticking out end up in line. not sure. lol
+Nick Peebles I really don't think they would've worn their scabbards unsecured, flopping about like that. Ignoring the fact that it'd likely be knocking you in the legs with that iron bar, perhaps more pressing is *the target it presents to your opponent!* Imagine an enemy grabs the string your scabbard is fastened to. You are now at his mercy as he can use it to drag you around or pull you to the ground so his mates could kill you.
It's the same logic and practicality that applies to horned-helmets; no one actually wore horned helms into battle because the horns would basically be labeled with "Grab these in order to control my head", and where the head goes, the body follows (until decapitation, of course).
+Nick Peebles Good idea, however that thickness of the strap might put a dent in it. The straps looks very thin, any amount of weight seems like it would drive that strap deep into your shoulder. Perhaps they were wearing much wider leather straps, which would make your idea quite plausible.
If the strap is well fitted and a little wider like Zamolxes77 proposed, it's not easy to grap it. Also I think Hoplits were wearing shin guards, so the dangling about of the scabbard wouldn't be that hurtfull
the bar was clearly there so you could 'end him rightly' by throwing the scabbard. As threaded pommels did not exist back then.
There's a third possiblity, which I think is the most likely:
It's that your mock-up sword is made of duct tape, and that it's oversized for the width of the scabbard. That combination of material and oversize would contribute to your mock-up binding in the scabbard, thus preventing it from falling freely under its own weight, or you from drawing it in one stroke with one hand.
Compare it to your other (metal) swords with leather scabbards; I'll wager those swords draw quite nicely with only the weight of the scabbard being needed to keep it (the scabbard) in place while you draw the sword.
Additionally, many sword/scabbard combinations had a lock of some sort which prevented the sword from accidentally falling out during energetic movement. This often came in the form of an actual short strap which looped over the hilt and crossguard, such as you would find in many european swords, or in the form of a slightly narrow leather lip/orifice at the entry point of the scabbard, such as you would find on katanas, ninjato, wakizashi, or chukoto. Beyond the entry point the blade fell freely within the confines of the scabbard.
Hence the term, "Loosening your sword in your scabbard."
shinggggggggg
I agree with this. Early Viking Age norsemen wore baldrics in a similar fashion being showed here and I think the reason they wore them on their person, parallel to their body, is so that the sword didn't fall out if it is leaning at a certain angle. Sheaths eventually loosen the more you put the sword in and take it out again and this method of holding the sheath would accommodate for that eventuality.
My wife's scabbard defintely gets looser the more I put my sword in and out of it. I think she might need a bigger sword now.
Tomato Fettuccini swords dont go shing not to mention that leather lips existed on not just japanese blades but on middle eastern sabres
@@rictube4716 Or a scabard refurbishing 😑
Scabbards are made of wood, not leather. Those are sheathed and as far as I am aware were never used for ancient Greek swords. I have a falcata with a leather sheath, and the thing is total crap.
Fed up with the sheath, I just made a scabbard for the falcata today actually, and the falcata is very snug in there. The scabbard is made of oak but is nowhere near heavy enough to fall off when I pull on the falcata.
Scabbards should be relatively tight fitting. You don’t want your sword jostling around. A loose scabbard means not only that the sword may fall out but also that the edge dulls slowly over time when the edge rattles around on the wood.
A belt is sufficient to solve the drawing issues.
For another possibility, the cord could be put on before the Curiass, letting the armor function much the way the belt would.
Wud u not cut urself then while drawing the sword? I don't know. I haven't the faintest clue about warfare
The bar might have been attached to a leg-strap. This would have allowed for an easy draw, and it also would have kept the scabbard from flapping all over the place.
+H.P. Moffat this will make for some akward movemnts when u fully exend ur boddy
+s40driver
Do you speak English as a first language? I'm honestly wondering; if so, where are you from and what is your sociological/economical background?
+Mister Bones no, and are u asking what I do or why it's it might be akward... And yes I have dyslexia..
s40driver
I understand why dyslexia might hamper your ability to learn written language to a particularly proficient degree. Fair enough.
Glück, mate.
robert13605
It is objectively not.
Every time he says "great big choppa"I feel like a WAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHH should be heard
If memory serves, the core is a couple of lengths of the sliders they use for getting desk drawers to go in and out smoothly, taped together. This is padded with the sort of foam used in camping bedrolls and covered with gaffer tape and electrical insulation tape. It was a fair few years ago I made it, though.
and now im imagining hoplites pogo-jumping into battle
maybe the bar was used as a tie-down to strap the scabbard to the leg
Maybe? It seems like sitting would be akward but perhaps that wasn't a concern.
lol wouldnt that make it awkward to step? tangling would be a possibility
Wouldn't an actual sword glide out of the scabbard way more easily? Because then, if the scabbard happened to have a bit of a weight to it, you'd be able to just pull the sword out while the scabbard is held down by its own weight. Maybe the metal piece at the lower end of the scabbard is just a counterweight.
real swords stick in their scabbard rather well actually, this keeps them from falling out if you trip or whatnot.
maybe the bar was actually a strap that came around the knee, but just wasn't pictured correctly in the paintings?
That would be my first answer as well, based on the difficulties I've had in drawing my bayonet from its scabbard suspended from a baldric (or cross strap) when doing Rev. War. You really need something to keep the scabbard in place or it all flies up in your face. My sergeant has a way of holding his scabbard in his coat tails, but I can't seem to master it, and what happens in winter when the coat tails are unhooked? I finally went with a waist belt for the bayonet, which has its own challenges; not a problem getting the bayonet out, more of a problem getting it back in. Also, a strap around the knee might have impeded mobility quite a lot.
The bars on the scabbard were more then likely used for marching. They could use it to help carry the shield on their back using the scabbard and rope. They could put it through the arm hole and handle and the bars would act as a catch so it wouldn't slide out. While looking at ancient vase paintings and other art work I noticed that most depict the scabbard at an angle instead of straight down so while the rope may have support a lot of the weight, There must of been a thong tied to the bottom of the chest plate or fringes to keep it at an angle to make it easier to draw out, and also hold it in place instead flopping around on the battle field.
Good point. They had few objects so they where probably multifunktional . If one had faithful replicas and start going about with them you probably would get it.
I love the way that if you come across some sort of issue with historical equipment you actually get your hands on a replica of some sort to test out your theories.
I love your channel, right up my street I love British history and anything military!
Where I live in central England, there's a famous Roman road which stretches for about 20 miles through my region (dead straight, typical Roman road) left over from the Roman invasion and occupation of Britain. The road actually goes much much further into Northern England.. anyway, in my town I was doing metal detecting along the ditches either side of this elevated road which now has a modern road surface on it and is still used today.. in one of the ditches I found what I think is a Roman dagger or short sword...the type they wore on their belts. It was made from iron so absolutely rusted through and completely falling apart, but you could distinctly still make out the shape and what it was clearly! Amazing find, just had been laying in that ditch under some earth for all that time.
Another amazing find I had close to my house which was an unbelievably lucky and unusual find was a fossil I spotted just laying on the ground stuff. It caught my eye as it didn't look like an ordinary rock or stone and looked to me to be lava from a volcano. Volcanoes in the UK?! That's what got my attention! I picked it up and yep it was a piece of volcanic lava but when I turned it over to my astonishment there was a fossil embedded in it. Some kind of shell fish creature very well preserved. I scanned it and sent it to an archaeology professor expert and he told me the name of the creature and said it was a sea creature that lived around 600 million years ago!!
The pikemen had smaller shields than the hoplites. The hoplite shield was a bit too big to use in conjunction with a pike held in both hands.
It occurred to me that some of the comments were that the hoplite sword was somewhat short, but then again ... weren't the ancient Greeks also somewhat short? After all, Sting was a sword to Frodo.
they weren't hobbit size
+ZombieTex They certainly weren't hobbit size but they would've been pretty short. About 150-160cm if I recall correctly. Although data for something like this is only a guess.
+Seb King a quick google reveals: "In 1944-45, the late forensic anthropologist John Lawrence Angel studied Ancient Greek skeletal remains. His results were 162 cm for men and 153 cm for women. He only had a rather small sample size at the time, though."
Although I obviously won't benefit from it at all I really hope that in the far future people average around like two meters in height, with a comparable build like in Frank Herbert's Dune universe. Though the fact that we're generally larger due to better diet does not necessarily mean that we will continue to evolve to be taller. In fact, there's a good (most likely, really) chance that we'll eventually end up looking like grey aliens and have a lot of congenital defects that science simply corrects as a matter of course.
+Mister Bones I think that eventually, and actually not too far into the future, the cost of genetic manipulation is going to become very inexpensive. Sort of how the first cell phone was a giant brick, cost thousands of dollars just for the device, and $10 per minute to use, but now you essentially have a super computer in your pocket you can buy for a couple hundred, and you have unlimited everything for $50 ... genetic therapy is very expensive now, but some day in the near future there may even be home manipulation units you can buy at walmart for a couple hundred bucks.
Once we get to that point, everyone is going to end up being over six feet tall with perfect skin and no genetic disorders. All non-desirable genetics will be eliminated. We'll all be living longer, happier, healthier lives ... but that's not the end of it! Mankind is going to become a two phase species.
We already have a device that can literally read the thought right out of your head with a high degree of accuracy. Once that tech becomes perfected and miniaturized, everyone is going to be walking around with a device that reads their thoughts and sends it to an on-line AI which self programs to be what is essentially a backup brain. It knows what you know. IT THINKS HOW YOU THINK.
Then, when you die, that brain gets downloaded into a human replica analog ... a robot body, and comes online as the new you, with all of your knowledge, thoughts, memories, right up to the point of your death. Now, you can make the new you look like the old you, but perhaps at your choice of "perfect age" ... OR ... you can start getting into body mods the likes of which would be impossible with a flesh and bone human body. We're talking about things like: an additional set of arms; eyes on the back of your head; a sonar emitter/reader; built in weapons like claws or firearms or LASER EYES! You could even be "ribbed for her pleasure". The possibilities are endless. And don't get me started on interfacing with other technology like your car or drones.
Speaking of drones ... you would no longer have to actually travel great distances. You could temporarily download yourself into a remote body on the other side of the world ... kind of like a rental car. The rental body would experience what you want to experience, then transfer those memories back to your original host body.
That said, one thing I would avoid is a persistent connection to the internet. The last thing you want is to get hacked. You'd have to make sure any connections you have are super shielded and encrypted and triple checked for malware. If you want to safely interact with the internet, it will have to be through a non-fully integrated connection where you simply view the information rather than loading it directly into your own AI computer. Kind of how we look at a smart phone ... though it could be done internally through a secondary computer.
This man should pop up in little windows to explain things during every Total War video game
OR, the bottom of the scabbard was tied to the thigh. The bar could have served to prevent a string from sliding off the scabbard when running in battle/drawing the weapon.
I doubt it. They needed to be as much nippy as possible and massive scabbard tied to the leg, hinder between body and shield in the battle is something what hoplite probably dont want to experience.
Lea Kaderova I agree that it was unlikely to be tied to the leg, though a swinging scabbard does also hinder movement where it can get caught between your legs etc. However hoplites didn't need to be particularly nippy. They were traditionally heavily armoured (for their period) infantry that fought in shield walls. I will admit that in the later parts of the Peloponnesian wars there were within the phalanxes groups of light hoplites called ekdromoi who could separate off and fight in open order as well as within the phalanx.
There were other greek units like the peltasts and later the thureophoroi who were required to move around more.
Lea Kaderova Try running with a sword sometime, you will see that if it is tied to the leg, you will be 100% happier. Otherwise you would be smashing your knee into the scabbard over and over as you ran, why would you stick additional metal on it if this is an issue? If it is tied above the knee, you lose no mobility, and will naturally cover the area of the leg exposed when hiding behind a shield. Think of a really deep armored pocket :P Much better than a dangling knee wrecker.
This makes the over the shoulder tieing also make sense, as it would keep the scabbard from sagging. Over the shoulder then around the thigh would make for a very secure way to carry, and I seriously doubt it would limit movement much(as long as its tied above the knee).
Richard Smith Well Im not any expert I just wouldnt want to wear scabbard between shield and my side and have to tied to leg. Its possible that they putting off scabbards before fight? Maybe it could be interesting to investigate how this solved roman legions or other later mil powers armed with similar swords.
Lea Kaderova I usually have my quiver (almost the same thing as a scabbard in this case) tied to my left leg above my knee and holding on to a belt around my waist. Running like that was pretty easy. I moved the belt to go over my shoulder and tadaa now it was much more easier to run and hop and climb etc. So from my own experience I'd say that having a scabbard or a quiver tied to your leg would not be a too bad of a choice, I actually prefer it over having it hanging on my back or waist.
i have seen greek paintings of a spartan soldier with the spartan soldier having his scabbard attached to his shield so when he draws his sword his scabbard is attached to the shield i know that is true
connor shaw greenie
This video is now 10 years old and I have a feeling I never saw him as old as here. That proves Lindybeige is living his life backwards.
The other option is to have a tie from the bottom of the scabbard to the leg. Those swords would have had to be fat if they were made out of bronze otherwise they would have fractured easily.
Bronze isn't as week as most people think and it would bend not fracture
@lebarosky I get a steady trickle of requests like this. I will at some vague point in the future be doing more weapon videos, although many of my points might be about non-combat items such as torches, mud bricks, cloaks etc. I don't always have anything unusual to me to say about a given weapon, and it is dubious use for me just to repeat something I got out of a book.
Loved the theory on why the bar was on the scabbard. Makes sense!
Yes, they did not want to have to draw swords, I agree. However, if they did need to draw a sword, they would certainly want to be able to do it very quickly and reliably.
The Xiphos was quit DEADLY. The blade was used to dance around a shield that the Hoplite would use in conjunction with their Xiphos/Kopis Swords. The curve would allow for gravity to help feed the flesh/target in to the curve both ways as the Xiphos was dual edged and the narrow hilt neck of the blade could move FAST around the shield. Same could be said for the Kopis. However, the main weapon for the Greek States was NOT the sword but the Dory Spear that was 7.5 to 12 feet in length! The Spear had two sides that were tipped with points. One side of the Dory had a 12 inch spear tip that was broad leaf shaped and the other side of the spear had a Sauroter tip that could be used in case the main spear tip broke or IF their Rear Flank was attacked. If attacked suddenly from the rear the Hoplite did not have to turn the spear around; but ONLY had to change their hand grip instead! The length of the Dory Spear allowed the Hoplites to attack over the Hoplite in front of them and thus help kill any enemy in front of the main line of their formations. It should be reminded that the average shile diameter was 36 inches of bronze with wood to reinforce the shield with the edge of the shield sharpened so as to cut as a weapon as well!!
pt3. adding onto that, once the scabbard is off you could hold it by the sling itself even, doing so would give you a swing radius of easily 6 feet from a stationary position, and a lot of force if it connects. we know hoplite shields were awkward out of formation, so maybe if formation was broken the shield was ditched and the sword and scabbard became the primary weapons paired together. the hooked nature of the end could also be used to grab shield rims, so maybe thats another use.
When we still had conscription in Sweden and all reasonably healthy young men was expected to do a tour of duty to train I was assigned to do guard duty most of the time. I was a equipped with a metal cored rubber baton and over the shoulder strap + belt leather contraption to hold it it at my side. At the time the police was using these as well and they where painted white and covered in reflective materials. On the whole, the image of someone with a white belt and a diagonal shoulder strap with a baton hanging from it had an air of authority to it. As was intended of course.
Still, what they wanted me to do with the baton carrying a sub machine-gun with live ammo as well was unclear. No way I was going to engage someone whit a baton with a very "grapple able" firearm hanging at my chest. I would rather use my gun to club someone or kick them then risk having it taken from me due to failing to hold on to it. This would not be an issue if it was folded up hanging on my back but we where expected to carry our guns at the ready in our hands at all times.
Throw the baton, then club them with the gun.
Pretty much what is left to do in such a situation.
Oddly that may have been how a caveman would have seen the baton, as a throwing weapon for killing small game.
Still binge watching your channel since yesterday... fantastic stuff!
@davewilson13 I didn't say that all swords were drawn from the right. My point was merely that long as well as short swords CAN be drawn from the right. Some longer swords were drawn from the right, but also swords were on the left hip too.
Leafblades are an old sword design, particular to the copper and bronze ages, where cutting was necessarily aided by a weight-forward design. The waisting at the hilt end would save valuable material, whilst allowing the clubbed business end to carry the weight. The celts used the design too, but changed to long straight blades when iron became more available.
Given how loosely the scabbard hangs on its baldric, I'd suggest they gripped the sword hilt and angled the blade under their arm then simply tucked their shield arm into their side to grip it tight whilst drawing the blade free.
Perhaps it is a combination of both. I know you can store your sword behind your shield and draw it when you lose your spear, however Spartans were only able to do that because their Xiphos was much shorter than that of the rest of the Greek world. I think they might have used a combination of the Belt and the Shield Latch. I noticed that when you lifted up on the sword, even when you had the belt on it still came up a little bit. That could then get caught on your grieves when it fell or it might hit you in the leg on the way back down. I think that you held it down with the shield so that it did not rise too high but still gave you the effective drawing power needed to pull it out of the sheath.
I think the core is curtain rail, and the padding is camping mat, and the outer surface is gaffer tape.
@GeneralAdvance It just seems unnecessarily awkward to me, and the moment of swapping from spear to sword is a critical one - you need to be able to do it reliably in a hurry.
@TOMHYLE88 I and others tried to get scabbards to hang at an angle, and it was not easy. There are scabbards with little rings low down on them, which enable a thongs to be attached to hold the scabbard at an angle, but even this would work its way round, as the scabbard came to the vertical. The four rings high up the scabbard don't seem to serve this purpose, but we may be missing something.
Though it is a hobby of mine to study ancient military history, I haven't been able to buy a sword such as the xiphos because of my youthful age. But I can speculate on the design of the baldric and scabbard. Most scabbards around that time were probably made of wood, and I know how swords fit in wood scabbards because I luckily own a cheap, but strong carbon-steel katana. As you know, the Saya (scabbard) is curved like the sword and worn in the obi (belt) with the edge facing up. In this position, it is extremely easy for the sword to slip out of its Saya - either intentionally or, more in mind, accidentally (which is why a Samurai always held the Tsuba with his right thumb). My point is that swords can enter and escape the scabbards easily if it's made of wood. If hung by a baldric, the scabbard stays stricty in position, pointing downward, keeping the sword in place. But because of the smooth wood interior, the sword could be pulled from the scabbard easily in an emergency without the scabbard moving too much. This is just my speculation, so if anyone does own an authentic example I would appreciate the clarification.
the only ancient Greek hoplites that used a dagger length sword was the Spartans who used a 12 inch version of a Xiphos, when a Hoplite from another Greek city-state asked a Spartan why is your Xiphos so small. The Spartan replied its long enough to pierce your heart. Of course the Spartans had two swords the other was the Kopis which was about 2.1ft long so not exactly short but sorter than a long sword. So in any case the Spartan Xiphos is an example of a dagger size sword. other than that most Xiphos of other Greek city-states where about 50-60 cm long or 1.6ft to 1.9ft. this is just for prospective on the Spartan Xiphos "short sword". .
Hi Lindy, Im from India, and Im really curious about ancient Indian weapons of the mauryan era, or earlier, especially swords, but there is very little information regarding this, and only vague descriptions. I would really appreciate it if you could do a video about ancient Indian weapons, the type alexander would have encountered when he came to India.
"Dirty great chopper"
The main advantage of a curved sword is that if you are invading a city, the guards will take a few seconds to say, "You see those warriors from Hammerfell? They've got curved swords," during which you can kill them.
This is Thrand!! I would say yes sounds right.The baldric makes it easier to quick draw with both hands as the scabbard can come forward and back bring pulled apart by both hands when not using the shield.
The bar at the bottom idea makes the most sense, maybe some more rope rigging went through loops in the bottom bar?
Otherwise I guess they held their shields in front of them to hide the fact that they were still drawing their sword.
I think the bar was spring loaded for 3 reasons:
1. Pogo sticks are better than horses as they do not need to be fed.
2. During a siege one could very easily jump from great heights and be cushioned by the spring.
3. Pogo sticks would have been more fun, bolstering morale.
We have been trying this at the reconstruction of the battle in Teutoburg forrest. I do know, that it is completely different army and so, but as a german officer I realised, that the main point is in changing of your pripary and secundary weapon. You usually need your sword in the close combat, sometimes realy close from your enemy (when your spear is too long for hitting him.)The ideal way where to have it is in your left hand inside of the shield.
Crazy I just start watching your vids this week , didn't know you've been around for 10 years
@FaakedLillebror Some people use that word, yes. Ancient Greek is famously vague, however, and xiphos probably just means 'sword'. I seldom use obscure words if common ones will do.
@MrBsct There is no cut-off point, other than one decided upon by categorisers of things. Bronze age swords vary in length greatly, and some are big daggers and some are small swords. An archaeologist some while ago decided to class everything below certain length as a dagger, and everything above as a sword, but in form the artefacts immediately either side of the divide were the same. Some swords e.g. late Spartan swords, were very short, and all varied to taste.
@Kruazir Agreed, but a sword should not be loose in a scabbard. If it is heavy and loose, it will fall out.
Here's how you draw your sword; hold the scabbard by pressing your forearm against your side. This keeps you covered by your shield in battle, while allowing you to have a baldric that otherwise does not restrict your movement at all. The bar would contribute to this in that it would hook behind your armpit in the draw.
Perhaps the bar was meant to be weighted with very little tension holding the actual blade in place. Consider wearing armor, gear, tourniquets, water, sleeping sack, ointment, and candy. The sword strapped around the body while holding the handle of the sword toward the armpit would keep it fairly secure while running, jumping, and riding, with all that other gear in place. Or perhaps it was like a modern drop leg holster with an actual strap that went over the hand guard and secured it.
@KrimzonKnight01 This is possible, but it would still leave the sword swinging around loose most of the time - very awkward and uncomfortable. The sword would also always work its way round to the lowest point (or even, it seems, round the back).
My theory is that perhaps the scabbard was used as a secondary or tertiary weapon, in the way that some eastern sword fighting styles use. It could (potentially) be used to either, bludgeon, parry, or to hook an enemy's shield/weapon.
A possible reason for the bar would be they tied the scabbard to their leg above that bar to both hold the scabbard down and keep it from banging around like that, and to make it easier to draw the sword.
@wonderwhy46 That is not how they portrayed themselves as wearing them. In Athens, skilled citizen artisans like potters would have fought as hoplites, so they would know.
@SrgGoofy I don't really know. Possibly it is for style, possibly it is for when it is being carried in some other way.
@neveSykcuL We don't know, but the evidence points towards everyone fighting right-handed whether of not this was natural to them. Down the right hand file of a formation would be a good place for them.
I must say, I gotta love that shield, its just brilliant.
For the sake of the argument, if the scabbard is not fixed and one handed draw is almost impossible, then it means that someone stealing or taking your sword will encounter considerable difficulties. This would also apply to the action of getting a sword from a fallen soldier probably, although the fallen soldier would be most likely with the weapon drawn, in their hand or besides them.
Another thought would be that the scabbard can probably have a fitting on the inside of the shield, providing better balance for it. If I'm not mistaking, these shields were supposed tot be used as a fixed extension and not a mobile one as the Scandinavians were using them. If the scabbard becomes a solid bar on the inside of the shield, possibly it would provide some sort of practical functionality in that context.
It's been a long isolation.
Grab your sword, tilt the scabbard up under your shield arm, hold between your shield arm and your body and draw horizontally across your breastplate. Hold the scabbard with your shield hand while fighting.
The strap went over the shoulder. These men, though, were using pikes, not spears, and needed both hands.
I have seen paintings where the hoplite handled both, shield and scabbard with the left hand.
Because Spartans were weak? There were plenty of bronze swords that were longer. Besides, it seems they used short swords in the days of iron blades.
this being because early iron was rather weak and could be quite bendy, containing occlusions of other materials.
as smelting improved and broken iron things were remelted, the carbon content would be raised quite by happenstance.
it would only have taken one chap to notice this improvement in hardness and workability and start doing it on purpose from ore.
afterall, it is said that it was potters of the ancient world that created the first ore based metals by happenstance when attempting to use new materials to create new glazes.
"wow! I like this green! looks almost like turquoise! what the hell is this red crap!?! *attempts to hammer back into powder for a second try* hmmm.."
perhapse that "bar" is a place to lash it to your thigh, as many people do with large blades in the modern day- if it works now it probably worked then, too. its just a thought, but i think its worth consideration
The kopis and the sword I show here are the two most common, so far as we know. it was largely personal preference.
Here is another possibility, That "bar" thing was actually a part of an apparatus which strapped to the thigh. I make custom knives and have a great deal of experience in the "survival" or "bushcraft" field. Not exactly the same as warfare, but we tend to be concerned with the same things (mobility, for instance) and use similar things for our larger knives. Doing this not only keeps the scabbard from "flopping about" but also keeps it out of the way when sitting, kneeling, etc.
The simple hanging baldric tends to swing around in high activity and has a nasty habit of getting tangled in the legs when running (I have a Viking sword, which is admittedly longer). Having a belt around the baldric helps, but does not stop it completely from flopping all over the place. There was probably a more clever suspension system that enabled the wearer to draw one handed AND kept the scabbard out of the legs.
My Grandad was a Cavalryman in WW1, his cavalry sword and other old weapons were hung on a gun rack in my Grannies house. I could get the flintlock rifles and shotguns down to play with, but never the sword. When I was grown up i finally unsheathed the sword, it was sharp enough to shave with ! Three foot plus of razor sharp blade !
@haveswordwilltravel Yes, there were shorter hoplite swords. Some kopis swords are pretty long, mind. I don't know of evidence for right hip suspension for hoplites, but some might have out of personal preference.
@14GloryofRome14 Yes, the sword was not the main weapon - that was the spear. The sword was the personal back-up weapon - the equivalent of the pistol.
Call it a xiphos if you want, but the Greeks were very vague and free with their use of such words. "The sword I show here" is more reliably accurate.
according to what i have read, the spartans used a sword of about that shape but only 14-16" long which they called a "xiphos". They used it for close in stabbing. The other Greeks are said to have used a sword of that shape and about 24-26" of blade, used for hacking.
The scabard was indeed floating around, because the hoplite was a very static soldier. Unlike the celts that would charge like pigs and that never used chains with free links to hold the scabbard (they had chains that would block the scabbard when running so they can charge full speed), it wasn't akward for hoplites use free floating scabbards because they won't run at all. Survivors of the battle of Marathon had this motto "we ran !", this point out how unusual the battle was because of that.
@mumpfpuffel Hoplite shields definitely had a loop for the forearm. they are unusual in this regard.
An interesting thought i just had, perhaps the bar at the bottom of the scabbard and its associated requirement of a shield to aid in drawing the sword acted as their equivalent of a modern day policeman's drop holster, i.e. making it nigh impossible for someone other than the wearer to quickly grab and take the soldier's weapon... not sure if that sort of thing would've been needed in ancient Greece but that would be an ingenious way of doing so
This bar can be found in the oldest depictions of Hittite iron swords from Anatolia from where it spread as part of early iron age weaponry all over the world. A connection to a shield and baldric isn't the only explanation because you also find it with belts.
@MikaelDryden Depictions of hoplites are consistent in showing the swords on the left side.
@lindybeige The swords were worn high on the shield side. To draw the sword, the hoplite just had to hold it firm against his body with his left arm. using the chape to lock the sword with the shield seems far too clumsy to be plausible. Not to mention that having the sword swinging around on the baldric would get in the way. Using a short baldric would solve this.
@KatakiDoragon Yes, later Spartan swords seem to have been a fair bit shorter. My sources were some Peter Connolly books, and archaeological reports from the newcastle archaeology library. It was many years ago. I Googled 'xiphos' recently and got similar dimensions.
I was once in a corridor lined with medieval suits of armour, not one under six foot.
@chicoulatas12333 I can't think offhand of an historical example. It would be pretty inconvenient to have to carry your shield all the time if you wanted to stay armed.
pt2. if the scabbard was a intended to be used as a hammer like weapon you would need to be able to take it off fairly quickly...with rifles using this (such as single point slings) sling style allows you to do just that. you can either stick your left arm through the inside of the sling, grab the scabbard then lift over the body...or reach up with the right arm and pull the sling off over your body. both ways can be done fairly quickly.
Six years too late, could it be that the bar was there to strap the scabbard onto the leg in some way?
@eXcommunicate1979 Possible, but awkward, as is a loose sword swinging about it its scabbard when I try to run.
I grip the handle and angle the middle of the scabbard upward to pectoral level and clamp it between my side and my arm, and draw it under cover of the shield.
Well, the majority of xiphos might not have been dinky little daggers, but the Spartans were quite famous for using the latter types. Their xiphos generally had a blade of only a foot to a foot and half long, being specialized for very short range combat in the shield wall. There was even a tale of a Spartan child protesting to his mother that his sword was too short, and the laconic mother's advice was "to take another step forward."
I was taught that the hoplite's servant/batman carried most of the gear until contact with the enemy was imminent, which depended on scouts of some kind. For both the Athenians and the Spartans anyway. The Spartan servants were likely from the perioikoi- no Messenian would have been trusted with weapons!!
The whole point about a scabbard (in battle) is to have the sword safely close to your body if you do not have the means to hold it in your hand somehow. If you plan to use it and have the means to, you hold it in your hand/behind your arm pressed against the back of the shield, etc. and leave the scabbard behind. But I suspect, that everybody using scabbards had means to make it as easy as possible to pull the sword, if they used tactics that required that in the midst of battle.
@300warrior300 Also, you have to remember, even when a phalanx force drew their swords, they typically still had their shields as well and needed to draw the sword while still holding the shield. As was demonstrated, it would be awkward to do so and if there is one thing that you want to avoid in battle, it is awkward movements.
I don't see how that would work. Though the cord cuts in a bit, I can sling the shield over my back using it, so this seems a more likely purpose.
@xfilion Late Spartan swords were often shorter, yes.
Probably the scabbard had some sort of strap tied to it, just above the users knee. Likely with no fixing point on the scabbard (or attached to the bar) due to one length of sword same to with the scabbard but people aren't all the same size with same length of leg.
I've read that the infantry in Alexander's army used significantly smaller shields as well, perhaps because they were going to have so far to travel. By the time they passed into India and reached the ocean, I think they had been traveling for eight years.